0:00

I'm David Grosso, and you're listening to follow

0:02

the Profit. We're

0:09

gonna unpack a really difficult

0:11

conversation. I'm talking about crime

0:14

and policing, which is a

0:16

hot button political issue these days.

0:18

That's all we hear about on the news as crime

0:21

goes up and distrust and police

0:23

is at an all time high. So my guess

0:25

a J. L. E. He's a veteran author

0:28

and director of a documentary

0:31

which preceded this whole awakening and

0:33

the Black Lives Matter movement, and it was

0:35

called Walking while Black Love

0:37

is the Answer, and he really doubles down

0:39

on the idea that love is the answer

0:42

to many of the problems that persist

0:44

in communities across the country. So

0:46

we're gonna talk about the root causes of

0:48

police brutality, how to modernize

0:50

policing, and how to

0:53

make sure that police and

0:55

communities could get along and

0:57

get the job done. How

1:01

are you doing, a j Hey, how are

1:04

you? Thank you so much for having me on. So

1:07

the number one bumper sticker I see

1:09

these days is the the American

1:11

flag with the blue line, Blue Lives

1:14

batter and I see a lot of BLM bumper

1:16

stickers as well. You made

1:18

this movie a few years ago. How

1:21

did you have insight into

1:23

that this would be the biggest issue of our time? Oh

1:27

well, I didn't, David,

1:30

I didn't. I had no idea that obviously

1:33

all these things we're gonna be taking place. But um,

1:36

when I was harassed,

1:39

profiled, harassed, target

1:41

for harassment for over a year, that was back in

1:45

time frame, and so there

1:47

were reports of things happening, but they

1:49

weren't all over the news every day, you know,

1:51

like it is these days. But back

1:54

then, when it happened to me, uh

1:57

for the umpteenth time, uh, this

1:59

this particular time, I thought I was going to die

2:01

on the side of the road. And and I thought,

2:04

you know, I can't do this anymore.

2:06

And you know, somebody's got to do something about

2:09

it. And I thought, well, might as well be me,

2:11

And and so I decided to tell the story

2:13

of what was happening. And you know, and

2:15

of course we all know what has unfolded

2:17

over the past several years, and

2:19

um, yeah, it's it's a big,

2:22

big problem and we and we need solutions.

2:26

Can you tell me specifically what happened to you,

2:28

just any of the stories? Yeah,

2:31

yeah, sure, So, Um, the incident

2:35

June of twelve. I was I was

2:37

taking a walk in my own community and

2:40

I was stopped by young Howard

2:42

County police officer. This is

2:44

in Maryland, right between Baltimore

2:46

and Washington. And his first

2:49

words to me were what are you doing here?

2:51

And then it went downhill from

2:53

there. It didn't take him long to accuse

2:56

me of breaking in the homes and so

2:58

forth, and and so that's how

3:00

that incident UH started

3:02

to unfold. One officer UH

3:05

then turned into three a little

3:07

while later. And the

3:10

only thing that saved me was I had the ability to

3:12

call my attorney and have him

3:14

on speaker phone, and they

3:16

backed off from the intentions

3:18

that they had. So

3:22

how do we fix this problem? Because, you know,

3:24

policing and community relations

3:27

seem to be at the forefront of concerns

3:29

these days, and we have these two

3:32

you know, opposing views that

3:34

you know, policing needs no reform,

3:37

right and in fact, defunding the police has

3:39

made things worse. Or we have what

3:42

you're telling us, which is, you know, policing

3:45

needs heavy reform. So

3:47

how do we begin to initiate

3:50

the changes that we need amidst

3:52

a very divided country on this issue? Yeah,

3:56

you know, at the end of the day, everybody

3:58

wants to go home to their at least safe,

4:01

right, So how do we how do we get to

4:03

that point where where all of us can can

4:05

be out in society and do the things that

4:07

we love to do and not be

4:10

challenged for it because of the

4:12

color of the of our skin or or

4:14

even you know what kind of uniform we're

4:16

wearing. Um, we all have

4:18

to do a better job of seeing the humanity

4:22

in the other the other

4:24

person, right, if we're

4:26

honest, we all have biases, and

4:29

unfortunately, those biases

4:32

you know, get out of control with people sometimes.

4:34

And if it's someone that's got a badge

4:37

and a gun and the ability to take

4:39

someone's freedom or someone's life.

4:42

Um, if that person

4:44

is not healthy mentally

4:47

and emotionally, if they're carrying

4:50

around racist baggage, and

4:53

and they're not challenged uh

4:56

to to do better, to

4:58

understand people uh

5:01

more in a deeper way, you know, then

5:03

that's that's a recipe for disaster.

5:05

And there's a lot of people in communities as well

5:07

who are hurting, they're in pain,

5:09

they're they're they've been traumatized

5:12

by various things in life and

5:15

and so there, you know, there's some people that are in the

5:17

community of hurting people as well. So

5:19

so so the movie

5:21

and the book that you've made is titled

5:24

Walking while Black. Love as

5:26

an acronym, So what does love stand

5:28

for? Yeah,

5:30

So the the love acronym

5:32

is UH to learn about people, and

5:35

then the OH is to open

5:37

your heart to their needs. The V is

5:40

to volunteer yourself to be part

5:42

of the solution, and the E is

5:44

to empower others. So

5:46

these are four action steps. It's

5:48

not some you know, just warm,

5:52

mushy feeling. It's

5:54

about putting love into action every

5:56

day with the people that are in your life.

6:02

So, how do we begin to rebuild

6:04

trust in the police? And it's it's

6:07

actually so much more more murky than it

6:09

used to be, right, because police there's a

6:11

lot of minority communities who

6:13

now wear the uniform. Right, there's

6:15

a lot of UH communities

6:18

that you know, have high crime rates,

6:20

so they need police. So how do we begin

6:23

to reconcile all these different things,

6:25

right, the lack of trust on one side,

6:27

the fear on the other, the long

6:30

held prejudices of some people who wear the

6:32

badge. How do we begin to rebuild

6:34

trust between these disparate communities.

6:38

Well, you know, a lot of people,

6:41

unfortunately, they lean on things like pr

6:43

campaigns and national

6:46

night out events and even coffee

6:48

with a cop. Now there's nothing wrong with

6:50

those things, with those events, but those are

6:52

moments, right, and many

6:54

times those moments are used to

6:57

trot out the community service officers,

6:59

the people that are trained heavily on

7:02

putting on a good face for the police

7:04

department, for the for the community.

7:07

Uh. And then meanwhile, there's other officers

7:10

that are running around doing bad things, same

7:12

day, same time, same community.

7:15

But they're they're not the ones that are designated

7:17

as community resource officers,

7:19

so they're you know, they're just doing their thing. So

7:22

the when it comes down to

7:24

it, we've got to go down to the cellular

7:26

level and teach people

7:29

how to police with empathy.

7:32

And quite frankly, everyone in

7:34

society has got to be taught these same lessons

7:36

because, uh, it's not just a problem

7:40

with with the police treating people

7:42

poorly. People are treating people poorly

7:44

period. Right. What gets

7:46

the headlines is when a police

7:49

officer does something bad, and

7:51

especially nowadays, um,

7:53

you know, and we've got to we've got

7:55

to see past the obvious and get

7:57

down to, uh, you know what

8:00

really are the root causes are of

8:02

these issues, and none of us are taught

8:05

how to love our neighbor in school.

8:08

Um, David, I don't know if you if you've ever

8:10

had a class in elementary school, high

8:13

school, or anywhere else, college, wherever.

8:15

Have you had a class specifically on teaching

8:18

you how to love your neighbor at

8:23

church, but not really in a public

8:25

or private school. Yeah?

8:28

Yeah, And that's that's see, that's part of the problem.

8:30

We're learning. We're learning a lot of

8:32

things, but we're not learning the basics. And

8:35

the basics when it comes to this is how

8:37

do I treat someone who's different than me? How do I

8:39

treat someone who maybe I don't you

8:42

know, I don't relate to them, you know in some way.

8:45

Well, the first step is to learn

8:47

about a person, and we

8:49

go on with those other three steps. Open our heart,

8:51

volunteer to be part of the solution, empower

8:54

others to the same. We we've got to learn

8:56

how to love people, and

8:58

that's that's our mission. You know.

9:00

I had a choice to make when when I

9:02

was targeted for harassment after

9:05

I reported the initial incident to internal

9:07

affairs, human rights counsel

9:09

and then double a CP. And

9:12

and when I did that, things got worse, much

9:14

worse. I was being followed, stop,

9:17

got threats. So I had to

9:19

make a choice. Do I hate back,

9:22

do I treat them worse right?

9:25

Do I meet force with force? Or

9:28

do I tap into something that's going to change

9:30

everything? And that was the decision

9:32

that I made. And I can only speak for myself.

9:35

I know that that was a good decision. I know

9:37

that it worked. I know that lives have

9:39

been changed as a result. Uh.

9:42

And you know, I recommend it for

9:44

for everyone. Because everywhere we take this

9:46

program, everywhere we teach

9:48

people how to love. Things are getting

9:50

better. So

9:53

we hear a lot of defund the police. Tell

9:56

me about that. What are your general feelings on defunding

9:58

the police. I don't believe

10:00

that the police should be defunded. I

10:03

believe that resources

10:06

should be reallocated in some instances.

10:08

But do we need the police and do we

10:10

need them to be strong? Absolutely? Uh,

10:13

there's a lot of bad people out

10:16

there or you know, people doing bad things,

10:19

you know, and and so we

10:21

need the police. When uh,

10:24

someone tries to break

10:26

into my home, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

10:28

call my neighbor or my cousin.

10:31

I want to be able to call the police. We're

10:34

trying to handle situations like this,

10:37

but we need them to do their job. And

10:39

I don't think that their job is to be social

10:42

workers. And I don't think that, uh

10:44

they're I don't think their job

10:47

is um to do

10:49

a many of the things that they're that they're being forced

10:51

to do. Now. I

10:53

think that we should give more money

10:55

to groups that are doing the

10:58

work in the communities, that are keep in the communities

11:00

together, and let the police

11:03

do what they do

11:05

best, which should be to

11:08

maintain order and peace. They

11:10

should be peace officers. And

11:12

we've gotten away from that in many

11:15

communities, and and and some of

11:17

it is because we've put too much on their shoulders.

11:19

And we've got to do better as a

11:21

society of of dividing up that those

11:24

money, those moneys, that those resources

11:26

and giving them to the groups that actually can

11:29

do things that can prevent crime. So

11:33

we're we're putting too much on their shoulders,

11:35

asking them to do too many things,

11:37

and you know this is what we get as

11:39

a result. Yeah,

11:42

it's very interesting you say that, because I would agree

11:45

as well, because crime is expensive. This

11:47

podcast is of course called follow the Profit.

11:49

And you know, poor communities are expensive

11:53

for everyone, especially for the people who live

11:55

there and for the governments that run them,

11:57

because crime causes all sorts

11:59

of economic glosses. And I agree with you.

12:01

Teachers are another profession that we ask them

12:04

to do too much. We're asking them to heal

12:06

society when really they're just caught

12:08

in the middle of a storm right there. So

12:11

how do we make cops

12:13

do their job, empower them to do

12:16

a better job. What are some

12:18

ways besides teaching them love that

12:20

we can make sure that cops are

12:22

keeping community safe and not

12:25

eroding trust in the very communities where

12:27

they work. Yeah, so

12:29

it starts with that, you know. That's that's

12:31

the first step is they're

12:34

very rarely given any empathy

12:36

based training. There's a lot of

12:38

tactical training, but

12:40

if you look at how many hours are spent on

12:43

on actually treating people with

12:45

respect and and having

12:48

empathy and relating to the

12:50

community, you you might find

12:52

four hours, you might find a

12:54

day of training in a year. Another

12:57

thing is that police go through a mental evalue

13:00

ouation when they get hired, but they

13:02

may not go through another one for the next five years.

13:05

Meanwhile, they've had dozens

13:07

or hundreds of traumatic incidents

13:10

that have changed the way that they view

13:12

the world and the way that they view the people that they're serving.

13:15

So we we've got to do a much much better

13:17

job with a kind of training

13:19

that we're offering. Uh,

13:22

there's there's other things that you know, once you

13:24

get into the once you get

13:26

to the training part and you've done that, then

13:28

you've got to reinforce that with actions,

13:31

right because if you if you don't use

13:34

it, you'll lose it. Right.

13:36

So if you learn these principles,

13:38

then you got to put them into action. So what

13:40

we're doing is we're setting up opportunities

13:43

for peace officers and communities

13:46

to do things together. For example,

13:48

in Yiden, Pennsylvania, just outside of

13:50

Philadelphia. Uh, Chachi,

13:53

that's the name of the chief there, Anthony Poparo.

13:55

He goes by Chachi. He became the

13:57

first police chief in the country to oh

14:00

been what we call a love garden. That's

14:02

a concept that we created where

14:04

we get police, peace officers

14:07

and the rest of the community to come together

14:10

to plant fruits and vegetables,

14:12

herbs and spices and as they're

14:14

growing those things, they're also growing

14:17

relationships and when they

14:19

when the food comes, they're going to

14:21

give that food away to people in the community

14:24

that need it. And there's many communities that are

14:26

that have a lot of people who are food

14:28

insecure, right And so

14:30

I'll give you an example in Compton,

14:33

California, the Sheriff's office

14:35

has a youth center there and they

14:38

have a garden and the deputies

14:40

and the young people grow

14:42

food together and they give over ten

14:45

thousand pounds of food away

14:47

to elderly people in that community

14:50

every year. Uh. That makes

14:52

a big difference. So love gardens.

14:54

That's That's one thing. We've got a big event

14:57

on September sevent called Love is the

14:59

Answer Day where groups of people,

15:01

peace officers and community members

15:04

are gonna be painting murals about

15:06

putting love into action in the community. And

15:09

they're also going to be doing other things.

15:11

But that event is designed to get people

15:13

together for a special moment that

15:16

builds into a movement in their

15:18

community. So when those murals are

15:20

up, they've got a reminder, a visual

15:22

reminder of the beauty that can be created

15:25

when we come together. There's other things

15:27

that we're doing as well. We're teaching people

15:29

to become mentors. We've got a

15:31

mentoring circle training program that we've

15:33

just launched where we're gonna have peace

15:35

officers and other community

15:37

members mentoring returning

15:40

citizens and young people and even

15:42

having young people, college students

15:44

and even some high school students mentoring

15:47

peace officers, teaching them

15:49

what it what it means to be a public

15:51

servant from their perspective. So

15:53

we're doing some things that are bringing people together

15:56

and helping them to do life together so

15:59

that they learn and about each other and they can

16:01

open their hearts to each other and they can

16:03

be of service to each other. So

16:14

what is a peace officer? How does that work? So this

16:17

is kind of like a different profession. So this is

16:19

a third party between the

16:21

you know, community member and the police and the police

16:23

officer. What do they do? Well, Actually,

16:26

a peace officer is a police officer.

16:29

But see, we're not seeing a

16:31

lot of that at least on the news. You

16:34

know, we've got to look for

16:36

for that. A peace officer, uh

16:39

is a is a police officer, but

16:41

the it's the same job, different

16:44

term. Now, if you if

16:46

you talk to someone who's in the profession, if

16:49

they tell you they're a peace officer that will

16:51

give you a hint at at how they're

16:53

approaching the job. Um,

16:56

so you know that that's the term that we should

16:58

go back to it. One time that was that

17:01

was it peace officer, and

17:03

we've gone into a different direction.

17:06

And so every police officer

17:08

should be striving to be a

17:10

peace officer, someone who is

17:13

is helping to bring peace to the community,

17:16

not adding to the tension

17:18

and the violence in the trauma.

17:21

So you're suggesting that empathy is

17:23

a way that police officers can better understand

17:26

the communities where they are policing.

17:29

Oh absolutely, Oh yeah, yeah.

17:32

I mean empathy is the is the key, and we

17:34

can't we can't get there

17:36

without training, especially

17:39

in policing. We all need

17:41

it, we all need more of it. I mean we see it on

17:43

Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, we see

17:45

it everywhere, right, We see it in the news. We

17:47

see how people are treating each other with

17:51

with all that's going on, with all the divisions

17:53

that are happening with through COVID and politics

17:55

and war, you name it, we're

17:58

not seeing a lot of empathy in general, and

18:01

and and so there has been a

18:03

gap. We've just not been taught

18:07

how to love our neighbor. It all comes back

18:09

to that, and and and in policing

18:12

especially, and you mentioned education

18:14

teaching as well. There's

18:17

not enough of it in teaching. There's

18:19

got to be just more empathy in

18:22

general. And we've got

18:24

to take a step back ask

18:26

ourselves, how do we treat

18:29

that person that cut us

18:31

off? Do we retaliate

18:34

with road rage? How do

18:36

we treat that person that you know that maybe

18:38

gave us a dirty look? Right? I'm

18:41

not saying let people walk all over you, but

18:43

I am saying, and this is coming from a

18:45

veteran who served in the Military Air

18:48

Force at a nuclear missile base,

18:50

right, the value of peace to

18:53

us was paramount because

18:56

with us at our base, it was worst

18:58

case scenario. If things got

19:01

to the point where we had to go to

19:03

go to war, it

19:06

was it was gonna be nasty.

19:09

Right, So we knew that we had to do everything

19:12

we we we possibly could

19:15

to protect peace. That was

19:17

the number one priority. With all that firepower

19:20

we had nuclear weapons,

19:23

Our number one priority was peace.

19:26

It was finding ways to to love people.

19:29

And so we've got to take a step

19:31

back and evaluate where we are

19:34

and and be honest with ourselves

19:37

and and learn these lessons that that we're

19:39

going to help us to be

19:41

better human beings, treat

19:44

people with more humanity. That's

19:46

across the board. That's why, you

19:48

know, I spend my days reaching

19:50

out to two people

19:53

in law enforcement and

19:57

activists with with social justice

19:59

groups and ministries

20:01

and companies and and other groups

20:03

and bringing people together to

20:05

teach them these things in the same space.

20:08

Not cops in one room and students in

20:10

another. But we're bringing them together

20:13

to have these tough discussions in safe spaces.

20:17

And that's what's needed. And we've got to do

20:19

the work. If we don't do the work, it's

20:21

not gonna happen on its own. And

20:24

it's you know, it's not it's not a sexy

20:26

sound bite for radio or television or

20:28

podcasts. You know, this whole thing about

20:30

bringing people together. You know, this

20:33

whole society is based on conflict

20:36

on you know, hits on videos.

20:39

And if I were to post a video of somebody beating

20:41

someone with a baseball bat, I'd

20:43

get ten million views. But

20:46

if I post a video next to it talking about

20:48

loving somebody and and and how do you how

20:50

do you find a way to love your neighbor? Be

20:53

lucky to get a thousand views. Right,

20:55

we've got to go away from what's what's

20:57

popular in pop culture. It's

21:00

getting ratings, and we've got

21:02

to go back to values

21:05

and in the simple things, you

21:07

know, and be willing to put in the time and

21:09

effort and work to make it

21:11

happen. Because there are no overnight solutions

21:14

with where we're at. We've got to put in

21:16

the work and the time to

21:19

make things better. So

21:22

how do cops receive your work, because

21:24

they're seeing pretty low morale these

21:26

days with the whole defund police movement.

21:29

Yeah, yeah, you know. Um,

21:32

we've been at this for nine

21:35

years now. Um.

21:37

It took about seven years, maybe seven

21:39

and a half years to start getting calls back.

21:42

And in the past two years, I've been invited

21:44

to participate uh

21:47

in in in law enforcement

21:49

organizations. UH,

21:52

first as a guest, and then I was invited

21:54

to join the International Association

21:57

of Chiefs of Police, which

21:59

is a rare honor for a civilian.

22:02

I'm on their Crime Prevention Committee

22:04

that have regular uh interactions

22:07

with leaders of that organization. In fact,

22:09

the the the executive director, Terry

22:11

Cunningham. Uh, he's in my film,

22:14

uh and he's he's in there talking about

22:16

what it's gonna take for the for the policing

22:19

profession to do a better job.

22:22

And not everybody like that. You

22:24

know, everybody wasn't on board

22:26

with what he said, but he's stuck by that

22:28

message and he's opened the door to people like me to

22:30

come in and help make things better.

22:33

Um. You know, I also serve on

22:36

a couple of committees for the n double A CP.

22:39

I'm on a crime prevention committee for the for

22:41

the state of California, the California

22:44

Crime Prevention Officers Association. So

22:48

so we're we're getting the response. We're

22:50

getting chiefs and sheriffs and even

22:53

district attorneys calling us now every day

22:55

saying, hey, how can you help us? And

22:58

uh. In one town, Bucks County, Pennsylvania,

23:01

the district attorney there, Matt Weintrobe,

23:04

he took on Love

23:07

as the Answer as a program at the beginning

23:09

of last year and

23:13

he has been working it and he's

23:15

seen amazing things happen. Out of the forty

23:17

police departments in his community,

23:21

about thirty five of them now are totally

23:23

on board with Love as the Answer. They're teaching

23:25

that to their officers. That's

23:27

their mantra. Now they're they're using

23:30

that in that in that county. And at

23:32

the end of the year, Matt and I

23:35

we were both awarded UH

23:37

Awards from the Bucks County Bar Association

23:40

for the difference that had been made in that community.

23:42

People's lives are changing there and people

23:44

are growing closer as a result

23:47

of his work and in the work of the Peace Center

23:49

in Bucks County that has facilitated

23:52

a lot of the events there. So, um,

23:55

when when law enforcement

23:58

leaders learn about the work

24:00

that we're doing and the difference that we're making, they're

24:03

now starting to call us. And that's a

24:05

good feeling to know that our

24:07

reputation is such that they

24:09

respect the work that we're doing and they're

24:11

actually bringing us in because they are many

24:14

of them now are looking for ways to do their

24:16

job better. That's a good sign. So

24:20

what specific policy changes are you

24:22

advocating for and policing, UH.

24:27

You know, the biggest policy change

24:29

that I'm navigating for is

24:31

for every officer in every

24:34

interaction to treat

24:36

that the people that they're dealing with with

24:38

love. Now, all right,

24:40

somebody's gonna say, man, you're crazy. If

24:43

somebody's coming at you with a with a knife,

24:45

you're gonna love them. Well, I'll

24:47

give you the words of Chief Melvin Russell,

24:50

forty years with the Baltimore Police Department.

24:54

Melvin may have to

24:56

apprehend someone, may

24:58

have to take somebody down sickally, right,

25:01

but he's he's not going to do it like that person's

25:04

an enemy. He's gonna do it like

25:06

that person that's his brother or

25:08

his sister, or his mother

25:11

or his father. And so he

25:13

he policed with love. Right.

25:16

He didn't use unnecessary force,

25:19

he didn't antagonized

25:21

people, he didn't drop f bombs

25:24

every other word. Right, He

25:27

didn't escalate, he de escalated.

25:30

He treated people like he would want to be treated.

25:33

He treated people with love. And so I

25:35

would walk around the streets of Baltimore with

25:37

with mel and some

25:40

some guys would come up to him and and hug

25:42

him and you know, um just

25:44

love on him, right, and then they'd leave

25:47

and then he tell me, yeah, that guy just

25:49

spent you know, six years in prison for

25:51

for for murder. You know that this

25:53

other dude you know is dealing drugs

25:56

currently. Right, But they had such

25:58

respect for him because

26:01

even the people that he arrested, he

26:03

showed him love. And when they and when

26:05

they come back and see him, they will

26:07

respect him as a man, as a

26:09

person because of the humanity.

26:11

You know, we got past the good

26:13

guy bad guy thing cops and Robert

26:16

thing. You know, we got down to the humanity

26:18

level. So you know it's

26:20

possible, it's proven,

26:23

it works. You know, it can happen. And

26:26

you can police, you

26:28

can be a peace officer. You can do that job

26:31

and do it well and and

26:33

treat people respect and love and and

26:35

and they will treat you with

26:38

that respect and love back. We

26:40

got to do it over and over and over

26:42

and over. We've got to commit to it and

26:44

not waver from it, you know,

26:46

and and just all too often the results

26:49

that people want they want him overnight

26:52

because that's you know, their their term in

26:54

office is going to be up in six months and they

26:56

want to look good. So you know, they got to get everything

26:59

straight right then and there. Right, But we've

27:01

got to make decisions with

27:03

a long term perspective, not about what's

27:06

it gonna do in the next hour or day,

27:08

but how's it going to change things a month

27:10

from now, six months from now, two

27:12

years from now. We've got to be committed to

27:14

the long haul. So

27:18

that's it. But crime is

27:21

surging right now. I don't feel particularly

27:23

safe in a lot of big cities. I mean

27:25

it's gotten markedly worse under COVID

27:27

and obviously that has

27:30

you know, dramatic consequences

27:33

for many communities. How do we fight

27:35

crime with love? Because sometimes

27:37

it is adversarial, right, Sometimes

27:40

my safety is in danger, your safety is in danger,

27:42

and cops feel a lot of danger too. Absolutely,

27:48

Yeah, I mean there is a lot of crime out there.

27:50

But again, I'm gonna come back to it. You know, we can't

27:52

solve things overnight.

27:55

We can't arrest our way out

27:57

of this, we can't

27:59

just break down more doors. Right,

28:02

We've got to uh

28:04

put this into action if

28:06

we ever want to see any lasting change.

28:09

And so you can be a

28:12

peace officer and do your job

28:15

and do it with love and be highly effective.

28:18

Um, you know, who's who's

28:21

who's out there committing crimes? Why

28:23

are they doing it? What got them to

28:25

that point? What what's lacking

28:28

in their reservoir that needs to be filled

28:30

up? Right? Those are the questions

28:32

that we have to ask. How can we help

28:35

people to be their best?

28:38

And and I'm gonna go back to Mel. Mel

28:41

was doing some work with Ray Lewis,

28:44

the former Baltimore Raven Hall of

28:46

Famer. And they

28:49

went into communities

28:51

in Baltimore and sat down

28:53

with people that were actively involved

28:56

in gang activity, and

28:58

they asked them, is this what you want

29:01

to be doing with your life? And

29:03

they were honest with them, and and

29:05

and and the many of the guys said,

29:07

no, I'd rather be doing such

29:09

and such, but no

29:11

one will give me a chance. And so

29:13

I'm gonna do what I got to do to put food on the table.

29:17

And so Mel and

29:19

Ray and others that that that

29:21

we're working with them set

29:23

out to help find those opportunities. And

29:25

they worked with institutions like Johns Hopkins

29:28

and others and got people jobs,

29:30

got people training, got people

29:32

to get out of that life right.

29:35

And there needs

29:37

to be much more of that. We need

29:39

to be willing to to to to go out on

29:42

a limb and speak to someone

29:44

who we might not ordinarily speak with

29:47

and say, brother or sister, how can I help you? How

29:50

can I be there for you? What what are

29:52

you? And I asked this too, I asked this of

29:55

of young people in particular that come to

29:57

our workshops. I have them

29:59

come up to the in the room and I

30:01

say, tell everyone here what

30:04

you want your life to be like in five years,

30:07

and then tell tell everyone here

30:09

how they can help you get there. And

30:12

when young people do that, and then

30:14

you see the arms of business

30:16

leaders and peace officers and

30:19

and and pastors and rabbis

30:21

and others, they raise their arms

30:24

and they say, I'm here to help. I'll

30:26

stand by you, I'll be there for you

30:28

for these next five years. That's

30:30

what it's all about. It's about people coming together,

30:33

about being there for each other, giving

30:36

people to training and the jobs and the options

30:38

and the care and the love that they need so

30:41

if they don't have to resort to crime

30:44

to put food on the table. You

30:46

know, at the end of the day, everyone's got to eat,

30:49

everyone's got to have a place to stay, everyone's got to

30:51

be able to take care of their families. And if we don't

30:53

give people the opportunities to

30:56

do it legally, they're gonna find

30:58

some way to do it otherwise. And so

31:00

we have to do a much better job.

31:03

Again, we're putting too much on the police.

31:06

We've got to find a way to love

31:08

our neighbor so that they don't have to resort

31:10

to doing things that are gonna land

31:12

them in trouble. So

31:16

a lot of this is economic. At the root of

31:18

all of this is that people need to put food

31:20

on the table. How do we help them do that in these

31:22

areas that have high crime, because high

31:24

crime tends to scare away capital

31:27

and investment. It does exactly the opposite

31:29

of what we want in these areas. Yeah,

31:32

David, you're right, and and you know it comes back to

31:34

the premise of your show, right, Uh,

31:36

you know, yeah, a lot of things revolve around

31:39

economics. Most things revolve around

31:41

economics. I mean, the number one reason why

31:43

marriages break up is financial,

31:46

right, And but you know what's

31:49

driving that. Sometimes it's driven by

31:51

poor health. Someone gets sick. You

31:54

know, my wife had a cancer battle. We

31:56

lost everything during that time. Um,

31:59

Fortunately we didn't lose our relationship. We

32:01

found a way to stay together and keep loving

32:03

each other and fight through that. Right.

32:06

But yeah, everything comes back

32:08

to this this notion of okay, we've

32:10

we've got to have our basic needs met. And

32:13

so in a in a capitalistic society,

32:16

it's dog eat dog, you know, And

32:19

a lot of times people aren't caring about

32:21

the next person. And then somehow

32:24

and I don't want to make this about politics, but you

32:26

know, if someone does something good for someone or

32:28

wants to help someone out, then then being called

32:30

a socialist. Well, if

32:33

that's what you want to call me for helping

32:35

someone out, Okay, you

32:38

know, fine, call me whatever you want, but I'm gonna

32:40

love my neighbor. Right. We have

32:42

got to take away the stigma of

32:45

being nice and being caring.

32:48

You know, it's it's not about

32:51

machismo. It's not about about

32:53

taking someone else down so that you can

32:55

rise up. If I can help

32:57

five or ten people to rise up,

33:00

guarantee they're gonna be there for me when I

33:03

need them. I've experienced that in

33:05

real life, so I know that

33:07

it works. You know, if I treat

33:09

people like crap, they're not gonna be there for

33:11

me if I need them. And so we've

33:14

we've got to understand as a society that

33:16

we are all Ohannah

33:18

Hawaiian for family, an extended family.

33:22

David, now that we've met, I'm gonna treat

33:24

you like you're my brother. You know, if

33:26

you need something, if you need the shirt off my

33:28

back, it's yours. You know,

33:30

I'm gonna be there for you now if you're

33:32

if you're messing up and coming to my

33:35

house and stealing things off myself, then

33:37

I'm gonna have to treat you with some tough love. You

33:40

know. I'm gonna have to, you

33:42

know, evaluate that and figure out a different

33:44

way to you know, I'm not gonna put myself and my family

33:46

in danger, but I'm gonna try to

33:48

find a way to be there for you. And if I

33:50

can't help you, I'm gonna help you get the help that you

33:53

need. We've got to be there

33:55

for each other. You know. If

33:57

someone down the street is hurting to

34:01

the extent that they're they've

34:03

got to find a way to make ends meet. If

34:05

we don't help them collectively, then

34:08

they're gonna break into one of our homes and

34:11

take what we've got so that they

34:13

can feel whole. And we've

34:15

got to understand that we've got to do a better job

34:17

as a society to

34:20

love our neighbor or else nothing will

34:22

change.

34:32

So let's talk about police unions, because

34:34

police unions are often in the news because,

34:36

as we know, it only takes one bad apple

34:38

to spoil the bunch. Right, most cops are

34:40

good, they're just doing their job, but

34:43

a lot of times there are bad cops,

34:45

and when they lose their job in one municipality,

34:47

they just hop over to the next one. How

34:50

do we change that to make sure that,

34:52

you know, everyone's trying

34:55

to follow the rules that govern

34:57

their profession, which we all have to do quite

34:59

frankly. Yeah,

35:01

that's that's true. Uh, you know that that's

35:04

an area where legislation is

35:06

required. All too often.

35:08

Uh, there's a there's a bad cop,

35:12

uh that gets gets

35:14

released, maybe doesn't even get fired or

35:16

charged, you know, just gets let go

35:18

or is allowed to retire or leave, and

35:21

then they get hired down the street next

35:23

same county, or next county, down next state.

35:26

People are hopping around all the time. Why

35:29

because the unions have done such a

35:31

good job at protecting

35:34

bad cops, right that. Yeah,

35:36

that that that bunch has become

35:39

spoiled. And so we're seeing a lot of

35:41

movement, a lot of people moving around

35:44

because they do something wrong. And

35:48

what should happen is they should

35:50

have to And this is coming from from

35:52

me. I don't know if there's any legislation out there about

35:54

it, but I really would like to see

35:56

peace officers have to carry

35:58

the same kind of malpractice insurance

36:01

that doctors have to carry If

36:03

a doctor messes up and loses their insurance,

36:06

they don't practice, They're done

36:09

right. And so the

36:11

same thing should have to to be for

36:13

a peace officer. They should have to carry

36:16

malpractice insurance and if

36:18

they mess up, there's a price

36:20

to pay. And no longer are

36:22

the taxpayers paying it,

36:25

but it's coming out of the funds they are generated from

36:27

the peace officers that are

36:29

paying these premiums to keep their insurance

36:32

intact. And if that were to

36:34

happen, the unions will

36:36

take a different stance, and

36:38

and and no longer would people be allowed

36:40

to move around because everyone's

36:43

rates would be affected, their

36:45

their their livelihood right that

36:47

the money coming out of their household to

36:50

the insurance company is going to go up. So

36:52

everyone in policing would

36:54

be looking for ways

36:57

to make policing better and

36:59

not making exc uses for

37:01

bad policing. So that's

37:03

that's one step. Now there's also, you

37:05

know, other things that should be done in legislation.

37:08

If you're if you're a cop and you're doing

37:11

the wrong thing, you're you should be put

37:13

into a national database where

37:15

everyone has access to it. And unfortunately

37:18

a lot of these records have sealed and and

37:20

and people aren't able to

37:22

find out that that that new

37:24

officer just came to town. He's

37:26

there because he busted somebody's head

37:29

in the next county over, and and the other

37:31

department said, you got to go find other job somewhere

37:33

else. Well, that person shouldn't be in that profession.

37:36

And there needs to be uh, a

37:39

national standard, a national

37:41

standard that that it forces

37:43

these bad cops out of the profession and

37:46

into something that they're more suited to do.

37:50

I mean, I'd be amiss not to mention the war

37:52

on drugs, right because we charge

37:54

a lot of our cops with doing the local work

37:57

on the war on drugs, which of course is

37:59

failing. Miserable play. What would you if

38:01

you could wave a magic wand aj what

38:03

would you do in that area? Mm

38:05

hmm. Well, you know, first

38:07

of all, I think uh,

38:10

uh, cannabis, you know, should

38:12

be legalized everywhere. I don't think there

38:14

should be a single person in jail or prison

38:18

for use of it.

38:20

And uh, everyone

38:22

who's in for it should be released,

38:25

let them go back to their families, you

38:27

know. Um, that should

38:30

be done. And then uh, you

38:32

know this, this war on drugs is really a war

38:34

on black people. Let's call it what it is. That's what

38:36

it's been, you know, and

38:38

so that that's got to stop. There's

38:41

a great organization out there called LEAP

38:44

that is in Washington, d C. And

38:46

it's made up of mostly former

38:49

law enforcement officials, and

38:51

these folks do a great job of advocating

38:54

for the uh, you

38:57

know, that war on drugs to to end

39:00

and UH and for our priority

39:03

priorities to to be uh

39:05

spent on on on better things.

39:09

So what do you think about the current administration's

39:12

approach to crime, because you know, Joe

39:14

Biden was one of the authors of the crime

39:16

bill that has received a lot

39:18

of flak ever since. Yeah,

39:22

you know, he has admitted that he was

39:24

wrong, and UM, I

39:28

you know, I think it's too early to tell. Um,

39:31

he's early in his administration. There's been a lot

39:33

thrown on him, a lot of things, a lot

39:35

of messages that he's had to clean up. Um,

39:38

you know, he's he's got the hardest job in politics

39:40

right now. UM. So I think

39:43

it's too early to tell. But I'm hoping

39:46

that, um, that he and his administration

39:48

will do a good job of

39:52

of bringing people together and addressing these

39:55

issues in a way that they need to be addressed.

39:57

I actually mailed the president cop

40:00

of my book Loves the Answer, and you

40:02

know, I just thought, you know, maybe maybe he'd

40:04

see it. Maybe not, probably not right. But I

40:06

got a letter from him just a

40:08

week ago. Uh, and that was that

40:11

was a cool thing with what he said

40:13

in there about hey, let's write the next chapter

40:16

of America together. And

40:18

uh, my my hope is that he

40:21

and others in the administration will take to heart

40:24

some of the things that we say in the book, things

40:27

that can be done, things that can be done by them to

40:30

make things better. And and uh, you

40:32

know, really place a greater priority

40:34

on this whole notion of teaching

40:37

people how to love each other. And it starts

40:39

at the top. Now when as

40:41

far as that's concerned empathy

40:45

and caring and showing people that you

40:47

love him, I think he's done a pretty good job of that so

40:49

far. I think that's just his nature.

40:52

And I hope that it

40:54

catches on and I hope that you

40:56

know, more people decide that's a great

40:58

way to live, because it is really is what

41:03

made you decide to respond with love

41:05

and empathy instead of hate. Because we see a

41:08

lot of people who have bad experiences

41:10

and it just embitters them for life. Right,

41:13

What made you? What inspired you to work

41:15

with community policing instead

41:18

of fighting it and calling to

41:20

defund the police. Yeah.

41:23

So at first, um

41:25

I was, you know, I was black lives

41:27

matter before black lives matter. Um

41:30

I, I was calling for uh,

41:34

every cop to be fired, you know, I

41:36

was. I was running around saying, hey, you

41:39

know, maybe all cops are bad. And

41:41

then it was Melvin Melvin

41:44

Russell who reminded me that

41:47

not all cops are bad, and

41:49

in fact, many

41:51

are really really good people doing an extraordinarily

41:54

difficult job in extraordinarily

41:56

difficult crimes. And so

41:59

for the year and a

42:01

half of

42:03

my journey through

42:06

uh the the

42:09

end of and then

42:11

even into I

42:13

was feeling that way. And Uh,

42:17

it all changed for me after

42:19

I took a fifty state journey.

42:21

It's kind of a walk about. I

42:23

wanted to get my life back. I was in such

42:26

a dark place from what had

42:28

been happening with the police harassment.

42:31

And I decided I'm going to go and and

42:33

and just see the country and do what I do what

42:36

I love to do, which is golf. I golfed

42:38

in all fifty states, a crowdfunded. It

42:41

started with five d bucks and made my way from

42:43

Florida the Hawaiian a hundred one days. And

42:46

when I got there, I was on a beach

42:49

Kailu, a beach on Oahu, and

42:52

I felt that the trade winds

42:54

blowing and I was in the water,

42:57

and I felt this in my heart.

43:00

Love is the answer. If you

43:02

want to do things, if

43:04

you want to change things, if you want to make things

43:06

better, you gotta do it with love.

43:08

You can't do it with hate. You gotta let

43:10

that go. And at that moment,

43:12

with tears streaming down my eyes, I let

43:16

all that go, all the frustration,

43:18

all the hate, all the fear, all

43:21

the darkness, and that that's

43:23

the moment that I've made a decision. It was September,

43:28

my birthday, birthday

43:30

that I made that decision. And I made that decision,

43:33

I said to myself, no matter what, I'm

43:36

gonna hold to this and

43:38

and and I've done that ever since.

43:42

And guess what, Love has not let me down.

43:44

It has led to the start of a movement

43:47

that is now going around the world.

43:50

And if you haven't heard about it yet,

43:53

you heard about it now and you will hear more

43:55

about it. There are people all

43:57

over the United States and now people

43:59

all over all over the world that

44:01

are adopting love

44:04

is the answer as their as their mantra,

44:06

and they're saying the pledge to themselves and

44:08

they're putting it into action every day,

44:11

and I'm seeing things change. I'm getting

44:13

the stories. The stories are pouring

44:15

in to us on a daily basis

44:18

about people deciding to choose love.

44:21

Love is the most powerful force in the

44:24

universe. It is. If

44:27

that weren't the case, this this, this world

44:29

would have been burned up a long time

44:31

ago because there is a lot of hate.

44:34

But you see what happens when when someone

44:37

is is in is in dire

44:39

need, and then someone

44:41

else will start to go fund me and the next

44:44

next day a hundred thousand dollars

44:46

has been raised for that family.

44:49

You see things like that all the time. That's

44:51

love in action. What

44:53

would happen if all of us put that

44:57

front and center. It's

45:00

how we're gonna live our life. We're gonna

45:02

live it with love. You know, sometimes

45:05

it's gotta be tough love. It's not all warm and mushy,

45:08

right, But what if we did that, What

45:10

if we tried that out for just a month, I

45:12

bet everything would change. And so

45:14

what I'm asking people to do is on septem love

45:17

is the answer day. Do just that.

45:21

Find someone, treat them

45:23

with love, see what happens.

45:25

Test it out for yourself. So

45:29

let's talk about prisons, because prisons are a

45:31

big part of crime in the United States

45:33

right. A lot of times we take young

45:36

people who have their whole lives ahead of them

45:38

and give them a quite extensive rap sheet and

45:41

incarcerate them and they come out hardened.

45:43

Is there any way your message of love can be

45:46

you know, parlayed into a better,

45:49

you know, criminal justice system.

45:52

Absolutely, We've gotta take love to the

45:54

prisons too. We gotta teach

45:58

guards and wardens and

46:00

and and others who work there the

46:02

love is the answer principles. You

46:04

know, when when someone gets sentenced to jail

46:06

or prison, Um,

46:09

they shouldn't be cast

46:11

out of society. There's still part of society.

46:14

We we should still treat them with respect.

46:17

I know that firsthand. My father spent

46:19

time in prison, My my brother spent

46:22

time in prison, My brother in law spent time in

46:24

prison. You know,

46:26

Um, these are people that

46:28

that I knew that

46:31

had a lot of good inside him. And you

46:34

know, and and my my

46:36

brother in law is still alive. He's out

46:38

now, um, but he's

46:40

he's had a really really hard time

46:43

from the from the system and all

46:45

the red tape. He's shared

46:48

stories with me about how, uh,

46:50

you know, he'll get a

46:52

call at two

46:55

am and if

46:57

he doesn't pick up because he's sleep,

47:00

he gets in trouble. And

47:04

and so we gotta figure out

47:06

a way to treat people with a little more respect

47:09

when they're in prison or probation or parole

47:13

um people who are in

47:16

are they getting what they need

47:19

to to live a better life?

47:22

Are they are they receiving any kind of training,

47:24

Are they being treated with respect? Are

47:26

they being given opportunities? And

47:28

I've heard stories of you know, folks who are

47:31

in prison. They get pulled

47:33

out out of prison for the day to go fight

47:35

a fire that they've been trained to fight.

47:38

They get paid maybe five cents. Meanwhile,

47:42

they're charged three dollars a minute for a phone call.

47:45

Right they get out of prison,

47:47

they try to find a job. They've been trained to

47:49

fight fires, but no one will hire them

47:52

because they've got a record. What's

47:54

the sense and stuff like that, Right,

47:57

So we've got to set people up for success,

48:00

not failure. There's a reason why

48:02

recidivism rates are so high.

48:05

It's meant to be that way to

48:07

feed a prison system that is a for profit

48:10

business for the most part. There

48:14

are shareholders expecting beds

48:16

to be filled so that they

48:18

can make money. That's

48:21

not sane. That's

48:23

the dark side of capitalism,

48:25

right. We need to do a much better job

48:28

of bringing love into spaces

48:30

like that, rehabilitation

48:33

spaces. That's what they should

48:35

be, but they're not. And

48:37

so we've got to bring love into those settings

48:39

as well. That's how things will change.

48:44

Yeah, this whole reintegration angle too,

48:46

is really important to this whole conversation,

48:49

right, because if we have hardened criminals,

48:51

right, and we continue to harden

48:54

them, because every time they do get out of jail and try

48:56

to reintegrate into regular life,

48:58

they can't find jobs. We've it it nearly

49:00

impossible for them to thrive, and

49:02

it's just a ticking time bomb and only

49:04

a matter of time before they resort to crime again

49:07

to survive. So how do how

49:09

how do we do we need laws

49:12

that you know, help train people.

49:14

You know, we do have a massive labor

49:16

shortage these days. Can't we find

49:18

ways to put these people back

49:20

to work to ensure that they feel belonging

49:23

in today's world. Absolutely,

49:26

you know that that should be priority number one. There

49:29

are millions of people that have a hard

49:31

time getting legal work

49:34

because they've got a record. Now they've

49:36

they've they've served their time. That

49:39

should be the end of it, right, that

49:41

should be They should be able to vote, they should be able

49:43

to work, they should be able to do everything that everyone

49:46

else should be able to do. That's a you

49:48

know, that's just that's

49:51

just the right thing to do, and that's what's

49:53

gonna change a lot of things if we if we get

49:55

around to doing that. Have

49:59

you seen progres us since you know, we

50:01

saw the video of George Floyd And

50:03

what type of progress have you seen? Man?

50:08

I'll tell you what. Um

50:11

Seeing people of all

50:13

races come out flooding

50:16

streets saying

50:18

black lives matter. That

50:22

was the first for me. All

50:25

Right, I'm fifty seven years old, right,

50:28

it took fifty six years

50:31

of my life to see that in America.

50:33

Think about that simple

50:37

black lives matter. I

50:39

mean, it's a simple statement. I'm not talking about

50:41

the the organization.

50:44

I'm talking about those words that

50:47

are so inflammatory for some reason,

50:50

so many people hate here in those words

50:53

black lives matter.

50:57

I'm a black man. It took fifty six years of my

50:59

life to hear those

51:01

words being said by masses

51:05

of people, and it was amazing

51:07

and it was beautiful. And now

51:10

people need to live that out. A lot

51:12

of companies made promises that they're not keeping.

51:16

A lot of companies, y'all

51:18

know who you are? Committed a million,

51:20

five million, ten million, a hundred million.

51:23

Where's the money? You

51:25

know, if you haven't written those

51:28

checks, you need to. You

51:30

need to keep your promise. If you said

51:32

black lives matter verbally or

51:34

put a poster up, or or put

51:36

it on spray paint on

51:39

the plywood of of your shop that you

51:41

boarded up, you

51:43

should mean it now too, not

51:46

just when you thought your building was going to get looted.

51:49

You know, you can't just use that statement as

51:51

an insurance policy. You got to

51:53

live it out. And so you

51:56

know, look, I

51:58

I I believe that

52:02

that a lot of people meant when they

52:04

said it. But now

52:07

is the time where you got to live it out. We've got to keep

52:09

pressing. None

52:12

of us are free until we're all free. And

52:16

you know, if you think that you're

52:18

immune to the

52:21

things that that black people are experiencing

52:25

just because you're not black.

52:29

Um, your day will come,

52:32

you know when when you you're

52:34

gonna sit there and you're gonna say, I wish I had treated

52:36

somebody better. I wish i'd love somebody

52:39

more so that, uh,

52:41

you know, whatever

52:44

has come to you wouldn't come to you.

52:48

You know, I'll give you one example of

52:50

that. Um,

52:52

there are white people who have had their loved

52:55

ones abused by police too.

52:58

And I know some who who

53:01

didn't care about

53:03

any of the instances that they saw

53:05

happening to black people because it was happening to black

53:07

people wouldn't happening to me. But

53:09

then it happened to their kid, you

53:12

know, and

53:14

and then they got it. Oh wow, all

53:16

right. It's could be taken away in a heartbeat, just

53:19

by somebody having a bad day who wanted to take out

53:21

something on somebody else. So

53:23

we gotta we gotta find

53:25

a way to love the other, treat

53:29

people who don't look like us or think

53:31

like us better, because

53:34

if we don't, you

53:37

know, the things that we're watching happening

53:39

happening to the other, they're gonna

53:41

wind not happening to us, and there's gonna

53:43

be nobody there to save us if we do that.

53:46

We got to learn how to love each other. I

53:50

guess the what I always think

53:52

of when I think of policing is that they're supposed

53:54

to work for us, the biggest line item

53:57

in most city budgets, right, They're supposed

53:59

to keep safe, And unfortunately

54:02

a lot of our interactions with police are

54:04

inherently negative. So hopefully

54:06

as time goes on, we can improve that relationship

54:09

because we're all looking for the same thing. We're

54:11

all looking for safer communities, we're

54:13

all looking for a better relationship

54:16

with the people who police us, and we're

54:18

all looking ultimately not

54:20

to have bloated departments that don't

54:23

do what we pay them to do. So

54:25

I appreciate the work that you're doing. Uh,

54:28

you approach it from a much different angle than

54:30

maybe many of the people who are listening to the show.

54:32

But I think love is something we all

54:35

understand a j. So on that note,

54:37

thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

54:40

Thank you for having me. Police

54:47

funding is the second largest category

54:49

of government spending. If you could believe that, after

54:52

schooling education, we spend

54:54

a whopping a hundred and ninety

54:56

two thousand dollars per police

54:59

officer every year, or when you factor in local,

55:01

state, and federal spending, and

55:04

policing is radically outdated

55:06

for today's world. Not only are

55:09

we seeing calls across many

55:11

corners of society for change right

55:14

and heartbreaking videos that go viral

55:16

online, but there's a lot of low

55:18

morale among police officers. We have

55:20

extremism on either side that

55:22

wants to protect police officers at

55:24

all costs and on the other side wants

55:27

to defund the police. In reality,

55:29

we need a balance conversation about

55:31

what needs to change and what is presently

55:34

working, and quite frankly, there isn't

55:36

a lot that's working right now. Most

55:38

cops are good cops, but the bad cops,

55:40

just like we said in the show when Apple Spoils

55:43

the Bunch, And a lot of this has to do with unions,

55:45

right, public sector unions, police

55:47

unions. We need to reform to ensure

55:50

that police departments are not protecting

55:52

bad police officers. And really,

55:55

until those hard changes take place,

55:57

we're never going to see any change with policing.

56:00

And we spend so much on policing

56:03

yet crime is exploding, so

56:06

it doesn't work. No matter whether you're left wing

56:08

or right wing. Policing needs to change.

56:10

It needs to work for us. We can never

56:12

forget that police departments work

56:15

for us, the people, the taxpayers,

56:17

the ones who are funding their entire

56:19

profession. Um David Grosso for Follow

56:22

the Profit. If you enjoyed this podcast,

56:24

give us a review so that others can learn

56:26

about this podcast. Give us five

56:28

stars. If you liked it, I'd like to think

56:31

my hard working staff who always

56:33

makes sure this happens every single

56:35

week. Follow the Profit is a production

56:37

a gain Which three sixty and I Heart Radio.

56:40

For more podcasts, visit the I Heart Radio

56:42

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

56:45

you get your podcasts. Part

56:50

of the ging wik