0:00

I'm David Grosso, and you're listening to

0:02

follow the profit. My

0:09

guest today is a pretty interesting guy. He's

0:11

best known as the chief spokesperson and

0:13

former president of Donald Trump, so I'm sure he has

0:16

a lot to say, and he's now the founder of getting

0:18

which is an alternative social media

0:20

platform. How you doing Jason, David,

0:23

I'm doing it well. Good be with you. So

0:25

for those who don't know what is Getter and

0:28

why do we need other social media platforms?

0:31

Absolutely so. Get Her is a free speech

0:33

social media platform that we launched on July

0:36

four this year, so a little over two

0:38

months old, already over two million users,

0:40

million in the US, million outside. And

0:43

as we've seen so much censorship

0:45

coming up in social media and

0:48

what I believe is political discrimination that's

0:50

coming out, I want to make sure that there's more

0:53

competition in the social media space,

0:55

that there's something where people were we

0:57

have smart, sensible moderation

1:00

and policies, but we also need to make

1:02

sure that we have our free speech rights

1:04

protected and that there aren't different standards

1:06

that are applied to people based on, say, their political

1:09

affiliation. Yeah,

1:11

how do you balance that? Because this is a really

1:13

difficult balancing act. Right, we want

1:16

for people to express themselves, but we

1:18

also don't want situations where we're getting spammed

1:21

by some some pretty gnarly

1:23

stuff while we're online. Yeah.

1:25

Now, and you know what, I spent a lot of time

1:28

dealing with moderation. So they're going kind

1:30

of for folks who may or may not

1:32

have kind of the granular detail on this. So

1:36

for most folks in the Western world, free

1:38

speech rights really extend about

1:40

to the point where you start to infringe on somebody else's

1:42

free speech or become say

1:45

illegal or hurtful type commentary.

1:47

And so in our policies we

1:50

make it very clear that we don't put up with any

1:52

illegal acts or threats to commit illegal

1:55

acts, or pornography or say,

1:57

you know, ISIS or terrorist type behaviors.

2:00

That's that's actually a difference between say US

2:03

and Twitter, as the Taliban would not be allowed

2:05

to be on our platform, but they are on there

2:08

on Twitter. Um. But so what

2:10

we have is both an AI system that is set

2:12

up artificial intelligence that goes

2:14

in say, for example, someone wanted to try to post

2:16

a beheading video or something like that, we'd catch

2:18

that and stop it right away. But

2:20

then also we have human moderators to go through

2:23

to make sure that things are being interpreted

2:25

as in the right context. I'll give you an

2:27

example. This is a little bit in the weeds, but folks

2:29

might find it interesting. An entire conference

2:32

call and brought the team together because the picture

2:34

of a gentleman who posted effectively

2:36

like ten sandwiches on top of each other higher

2:39

than his head while he's at the table with a fork in one

2:41

hand and knife on the other got picked up

2:44

because of the knife in his hand. And obviously

2:46

it was a gentleman who just was really, really really

2:49

hungry. You know, he's been goofy as far as a photo

2:51

it was putting on. So we'll hold on the guy. Clearly

2:54

it's a butter knife. Clearly is not like, you know, threatening

2:56

to do anything. Why do you get picked up? And we actually

2:58

went through and we have that literally six different

3:01

gradations of knife

3:03

imagery, and so what we decide is

3:05

this should have been the AI should have picked it up.

3:07

There was only a butter knife and not something where seemed

3:10

to be doing harm or not near someone's throat

3:12

or something like that. We want to look.

3:14

We're never going to get it right. A hundred percent at a time,

3:16

But we want to be sensitive and we want to protect people.

3:18

Obviously, if someone did have a knife to the throat, that's

3:20

not imagery that we would want on there.

3:23

But at the same time, we want to make sure that we're doing after action

3:25

reviews to make sure not being too strict

3:28

within so there's a balance. But again,

3:30

the kind of the value

3:32

proposition I think with Getter is that

3:34

we're never going to go in censor or deep platform

3:36

people for speaking their political beliefs,

3:38

and I think that is with so

3:41

much of the divide that's going on

3:43

in the country right now, I want to make sure

3:45

that people have a place where they always know that their

3:47

free speech right it's gonna be protected, whether

3:49

on the right or the left. And quite frankly,

3:52

a lot of the free speech debates uh in

3:54

the US and in recent even longer history

3:57

have been pursued by those who

3:59

reviewed on the on the political left.

4:01

And so the pendulum is going to swing back, and

4:03

I want to make sure that what it does, all of my

4:05

friends on the left have a place where they can go.

4:08

No, they're not going to have big tech to on the way

4:10

they can or can't think Yeah,

4:12

so everything kind of already happened together,

4:15

right, You already got spammed, you already

4:17

had data issues and whatnot.

4:19

What have you learned so far? Because it seems

4:22

like it's not easy to operate in

4:24

the sense that you're doing. You're

4:27

at the nexus of some of the most controversial

4:29

stuff on earth, which is Donald Trump and social

4:31

media all in one little cocktail.

4:34

Do you want to try anything harder? Jason, Yeah,

4:37

exactly. Maybe maybe juggling chainsaws

4:40

or you know, trying to across the Grand

4:42

Canyon on a on a tight rope. You know, those those might

4:45

be my uh, you know for next summer activities

4:47

that if I can get through this one. Um.

4:49

But now it's a look, it's it's a fight. I

4:51

think that's worth having. Um. I think

4:53

that. I think also I think there's just a lack

4:56

of excitement in general with a lot of social media platforms

4:58

that are out there right now. And I very

5:01

much believe that if you go

5:03

and tell people, hey, you're not allowed to have

5:05

this this belief anymore, or if you're going to

5:07

go and try to, you know, chop off seventy

5:10

million people in the country and say we don't want to be part

5:12

of the conversation, Well, guess what, they're

5:14

still going to have their opinions. They're

5:16

just going to go and keep themselves and becoming more

5:18

frustrated and more angry, or the

5:20

country further is further divided

5:22

from my opinion I'm trying to do. I want to make sure

5:25

that everyone has a place where they can come to and

5:27

I think with some of the cool features and different things we're

5:29

doing together, I hope you start attracting

5:31

more people from the left. I think our international

5:34

presence, the fact that we have half

5:36

of our user base outside

5:38

the Countrol already is a big differential from other

5:40

upstart platforms in the past. I mean literally,

5:42

I'll tell you this. Yesterday

5:45

on that after the news of my

5:48

being held against my will, I guess you could say in

5:50

Brazil we had fifty thousand

5:53

sign ups just from Brazil alone, our

5:55

second biggest sign up day ever after July

5:57

four when we kicked off. And so this thing is

6:00

on. This thing is catching on like wildfire all around the

6:02

planet. So

6:04

how do we get here, Jason, Because you've been in politics

6:06

for a long time, whether you're from the left or the right,

6:08

Let's take off the labels here, Why do

6:10

we live in a world where we're afraid of

6:12

people saying certain things and that we're offended

6:15

at everything? Good

6:17

question. So I think we're and I'm going to

6:19

put it a little bit more specific to the

6:22

digital space to try to avoid

6:24

um, people just saying you know, hey,

6:27

I'm on the left, I'm on the right. Um. And

6:29

then you know, people auto actually just put on their

6:31

blue or red jerseys and then the

6:33

conversation kind of gets nowhere. So

6:36

what some folks might know and some folks might not,

6:38

is it back in the nineties, back when we had

6:40

blogs and a O L and you have that real weird

6:42

noise when you're getting on the internet. Um,

6:45

they went past they

6:47

would pass the essentially the governing rules for

6:49

how the internet and social media

6:52

are are covered. So they have this thing called

6:54

Section to thirty which allows

6:56

social media platforms to essentially

6:58

not be held liable for content

7:00

that's that's put on there as long

7:02

as they're not going in in uh say,

7:04

voicing editorial type things

7:06

and are the ones who are who are picking everything that happens.

7:09

And so that way, your your platform,

7:11

not a publisher. So a publisher would be again

7:14

that could be like the New York Times, you know, like you know

7:17

New York Times Online or Washington

7:19

Posts where they're liabel and on the hook for every

7:21

letter, every character that comes out, because

7:24

that's that's what they're doing. They're

7:26

help liabel. It's different. They can have opinion, do

7:28

these things. And I think at a certain

7:30

point that I think these

7:32

social media companies decided that

7:35

they were going to be the ones

7:37

who were the arbiters of what

7:39

is real and what is not real. And

7:41

I'll give you an example on a couple of things. There's

7:44

some things Obviously you're gonna have people

7:46

on both sides and go and say crazy things at a certain

7:48

point. But let me just give you, like just some of the signs.

7:51

There were a lot of instances last year, is

7:53

say, COVID nineteen was starting to rage and to

7:55

take off where you had some of the social

7:58

media companies are saying, well, you

8:00

can't go and say definitively that the virus is

8:02

from a lab and wuhan that's being

8:04

being to the people in China. I'm slightly

8:07

over generalizing, but I'm making this uh

8:10

acknowledging that and people get

8:12

put into time out, digital time

8:14

out, so to speak. Well, you know, shocker,

8:16

We did find out that the virus, not

8:18

saying it's man made necessarily, we don't know that for sure,

8:21

but it did come from a lab in Wuhan. That's pretty much

8:23

well accepted. Science changes the

8:25

way that we I mean, I'm someone who's vaccinated,

8:27

but I'm old enough to remember I

8:30

was told that if you've got the one shot of

8:32

the vaccination or two shots, if you've got to save Maderna,

8:35

that you're fine, that you're protecting its COVID.

8:37

Well, then we find out like we're not necessarily,

8:39

you're gonna have to be getting jobs for for

8:41

a while. So science changes,

8:44

we learn more, facts change. Uh,

8:46

And I think that we have to be real careful. Say,

8:48

if you're social media company, when you decided

8:51

to start coming and playing judge during executioner

8:53

with the truth, Uh, you've

8:55

got to be careful and something because especially when it comes

8:57

to political opinions. Um, you

9:00

know, one person's truth is another

9:02

person's falsey and vice versa, and

9:04

you've got to really be careful. Hey, are you committed

9:06

to making sure you have free speech? Are you committed

9:08

to making sure people believe what you believe? I

9:11

think that's a key distinction, which one what we do

9:13

versus some of the other platforms. So

9:15

how do we draw that line though, because it's hard, right,

9:17

because you have some some personalities on

9:19

your platform that say things that some

9:22

people would consider extremely false, including

9:24

myself. You know, I don't agree with everyone everything

9:26

that everyone says, and you know,

9:29

I don't think there's anything dangerous

9:31

about expressing an opinion, but other

9:33

people definitely think that, and in fact, that's mainstream

9:36

thought these days, right, But that's

9:38

that's dangerous to say that, that's disinformation,

9:41

that's making the world not a

9:43

better place. So how do we balance

9:45

this? I mean, this is directly pinning

9:47

half of the population against the f Yeah,

9:50

well, I think part of it. Let's go back to the very

9:52

beginning, kind of the the

9:55

underpinning, so to speak, of what free speech

9:57

is about, and the kind of the north star

10:00

we have. And again I'll

10:02

admit, we're not going to get it right every single time,

10:04

you know, do our best to try to, but it's going to be

10:06

a growing process that your free

10:08

speech rights should extend up until

10:11

the point where they're either infringing on

10:13

someone else's free speech rights or until it's

10:15

pushing into illegal behavior or

10:17

say the threatening behavior towards hurting someone.

10:20

And so if someone's offering up their political viewpoint

10:22

or their personal experiences, say

10:24

dealing with UH, with the medical

10:26

issues or COVID or things like that, where

10:29

people want to talk about, here's what I think how

10:31

we should be approached a certain issue.

10:33

And you know, and it's not all politics.

10:35

It's not get or it's not just everything all all politics.

10:38

Obviously that's where a lot of the passion is. Admittedly

10:40

right now is in kind of the right of center space. Like

10:42

I said, I hope to continue broadening and

10:44

get a lot more folks on. So we do have

10:46

folks like Jorge Moss at all from the UFC

10:48

and Gina Karano from the Mandalorian

10:51

although she's still Mandalorian and she get booted, but anyway,

10:53

she's I'm glad she's on our platform, but I'm

10:55

not UM, as I said when she joined

10:57

the platform. You know, uh, Gina, you know thinks

11:00

or being the biggest badass and multiple

11:02

galaxy. So it's cool to have her on UM,

11:05

but we you know, we want to

11:07

make sure that really your rights, your

11:10

ability go and talk about what as long as you're

11:12

not infringing on someone else's rights or threatening

11:15

some kind of illegal behavior. Uh.

11:17

And so we do have we do have a

11:19

moderation policy. We do tell folks were not going

11:21

to put up with any racial or religious

11:23

epithets. We're not going to allow

11:25

you to go threatened illegal behavior docs people

11:28

or things like that. And we've had that from day

11:30

one. Now obviously we've improved on some

11:32

of those, uh systems since we started,

11:35

as I kind of gave you that a little bit example earlier.

11:37

But that north star is your rights extend

11:39

up to the point where they start to infringe on somebody else's

11:41

rights. The ability

11:44

or the right for you to punch me stops at

11:46

the bridge of my nose, as I believe the saying

11:48

goes. So let's talk about the go

11:51

ahead now. I was gonna say, look,

11:53

you know, and the courts have been pretty clear on them.

11:55

You uh, you know the proverbial you cannot

11:58

walk into a crowded movie theater and fire.

12:00

Uh. You know, if you go into a restaurant and hurl a racial

12:03

epithet um, you know, odds are

12:05

you know it won't just be legal. Ramifications are probably

12:08

gonna get knuckle sandwich of your own. Um,

12:10

And so that's but now I think your

12:12

analogy is a little better. So I'm to steal that music at

12:14

the future if you don't mind, of

12:17

course. I mean the best ideas are stolen.

12:29

Let's talk about the most famous case of

12:31

d platform ing, which is of course, former

12:33

President Trump. And you've made

12:35

it very clear. I've watched a lot of your interviews.

12:38

You've been a good sport. You sit with all types of media

12:40

and talk about your platform. Right, You've been

12:42

not so quiet about trying to get President

12:44

Trump on your platform. How's that going?

12:47

And what can you comment about that. I'm

12:49

working it. I'm the biggest squeaky will

12:51

that there has ever been. And so I saw

12:54

President Trump last night when visited

12:56

him at Bedminster, and worked on him for another half

12:58

hour. We we not yet

13:00

have smoke coming out of the Vatican, but

13:03

I'm continuing to work it, and I'm optimistic

13:06

about the direction that's going. But here's the thing,

13:08

Um, I think that we have a great piece

13:10

of technology, and then we have a lot of fun,

13:13

cool people that are on the platform. Um.

13:15

And as I start noticing, I spent

13:17

a lot of time on just go I care about the user experience.

13:20

I can convince people to go and check out the platform,

13:22

but if it's not fun that people don't wake up

13:24

and say, hey, let me check out what's going on and get her, then

13:27

uh, then it's just it's not worth it. So

13:29

I very much invested in trying

13:32

to make sure that it's a fun, uh user

13:34

friendly type type platform. I

13:36

am really impressed with the way that the conversation.

13:39

Now again, it's not just on politics.

13:41

I mean it's a lot about life. Uh. It's

13:43

people who are seeing people from other countries, and you

13:45

know, for you know, I know many people

13:47

in the media A lot of times I want

13:49

to go and say that anyone who say, you know, right

13:52

of center populist, you know, there must be

13:54

some kind of uh you know, inward

13:56

looking troglodyte that you know doesn't interact

13:58

with people from other countries and in different

14:00

cultures. And I got to tell you, I've interacted

14:02

with people from other countries more in the past

14:05

two months, uh than I probably have

14:07

ever in my life. Um. It's you know,

14:09

it's great to know the people all around the world that really

14:12

appreciate free speech. Um, you know, whether

14:14

they're secretly doing it via VPN

14:17

from China, or someone who's in the democracy that

14:19

should have better free speech rights like Brazil,

14:21

or even the people who you know

14:23

are good folks across the pond in the UK. And

14:25

so I love kind of this back and forth

14:28

and the fact that people are excited about a free

14:30

speech platform. So let's

14:32

talk about the back and forth a lot of times on

14:34

Twitter. Half the fun is seeing people who

14:36

are different, you know, fight with each other,

14:39

right we we we tend to like stories

14:41

where there's tension. How are you going to bring that

14:43

tension if you're disproportionately

14:45

attracting conservatives? Well,

14:48

again, that's real. Right now, a lot of the passion

14:50

is in the right of center space. But

14:53

we're making a strong effort to try to both hire

14:55

some people to recruit more leftist center

14:58

folks, but then also try, excuse me, trying

15:00

to get more people kind of athletes and entertainers,

15:02

people like that, when we put together some some deals

15:04

or partnerships to try to bring them on board.

15:06

But in the meantime, here's what I can do.

15:09

I can go and attract people who quite frankly,

15:11

don't build themselves as being

15:13

political minded. Maybe they're just more

15:16

to two different things, and politics is not

15:18

what they drive. There might be people from different

15:20

countries, uh, not necessarily. You

15:22

know, people who wake up in Japan don't build

15:24

themselves as republicans or democrats. Um.

15:27

You know, people who wake up and Brazil

15:30

don't brand themselves as tories

15:32

or labor. Each country is going to

15:34

have kind of their own approach. What I can do is I can expand

15:36

or international profile, and I can bring

15:38

in a lot of people who maybe aren't

15:40

that big into politics at all. And over

15:43

time, I think is the uh, look,

15:45

we're probably one big kind of

15:47

explosive event away from the pendulum starting

15:50

to swing back. So say, for example, look, it

15:52

wasn't that long ago, for example, you know, whether be

15:54

gay rights or women's rights, or you know, going

15:56

back more forty years ago. Uh,

15:59

you know, forty two years ago where African Americans

16:01

had a different set of First Amendment rights,

16:03

or they were especially certain areas

16:05

of the country there their first

16:07

Amen was a lot different from uh, from

16:09

white folks First Amendment. UM. And

16:11

so it's the pendulum swings

16:13

and impacts everyone across across

16:16

the country. UM. And again, at

16:18

a certain point, the pendulum will swing back a lot of that passion.

16:20

Now we'll go back to the We'll go back

16:23

to say, you know, the center or left of center, depending

16:25

on you know, kind of how you define yourself in the spectrum,

16:28

and we'll be here ready to get them all signed

16:30

up together. So

16:32

tell me about the monetization model. You have

16:34

some pretty interesting ways

16:37

that you're going to monetize this platform.

16:39

Of course, this podcast is called follow

16:41

the Profit, So what is the profit

16:43

model for the future of Gether? Yeah?

16:46

So this this is really exciting and when

16:48

I'm not in a detention center of Brazil, this is what I

16:50

spent all my time really thinking of

16:52

and how to go and put together. Um.

16:54

So, one of the key differentials

16:57

between US and say Facebook or Twitter

16:59

is we will never sell or share any user

17:02

data. This is a big one. This is right off the top

17:04

of you look at Facebook and Twitter, whether it's

17:06

in their their early papers when they're going public

17:08

and they said we were essentially data

17:10

companies. We're gonna make money from selling

17:13

user data. Um And that's

17:15

that's their business models, what they're doing. It's something

17:17

that I can tell you a lot of folks, not

17:19

just in the US, but around the world are vehemently

17:22

opposed to. So we've decided to stake out

17:24

that space and say we'll never sell or share

17:26

your data. The first aspect of monetization

17:29

that will come up will be online appreciation,

17:31

online tipping. That will be coming

17:33

up probably say

17:36

probably say it's coming up probably about four

17:38

to six weeks. I think we're out where

17:41

say, if you're a follow

17:43

the money, or if it's going to follow the profit, or

17:45

if you're someone who has a YouTube show or

17:47

someone who is a

17:49

different kind of content creator where people

17:51

can either offer say tips

17:54

or I know they do bits on things like Twitch, things

17:56

like that where you can go and essentially give you

17:58

know, or we see that decentralization

18:00

of a lot of this from say sub stack or Patreon,

18:03

a number of these different models. We think

18:05

that will help recruit a lot of content

18:07

creators to come to the platform therefore

18:09

bring a lot of their followers. So,

18:12

and obviously we'll do it in a model where we charge

18:14

much less than than say Apple

18:17

or or even Rumble or anything

18:19

else that's out there. Because it is

18:21

a platform, you can do it for a lot less. It's

18:23

just I think for quite a while, Apple's kind

18:25

of a little bit of a highway robbery

18:27

with what they've been able to charge, So

18:29

we'll charge we'll take much less off the

18:31

top than what other essentially

18:34

hosts are going to do. That would be kind

18:36

of the initial phase Ralscope.

18:38

We will start working on some advertising after

18:41

the first of the year. The reason why I put that

18:43

off it's kind of want to make sure that the platform

18:45

UH diversifies more and we get people

18:47

from a kind of a broader audience,

18:49

both domestic and internationally before we

18:51

start doing ads, as we can make sure that it's

18:54

you know, like I can tell you if I opened up for advertising right

18:56

now, I'd be full and have great advertising,

18:59

but it would you know, it would be

19:01

very much you know, campaign ads are different

19:03

people um chiming in that have

19:05

a you know, pretty pretty similar worldview,

19:08

and I don't think it'd be as fond attract

19:10

as brought of a reach of advertisers.

19:12

But the big prize, and again this is going to the

19:14

follow the profit is we ultimately

19:17

want to launch get or pay UH not

19:19

just purely is a marketplace competitor

19:21

to say, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay,

19:23

Google Pay, Ali Pay, we Chat pay, and

19:26

go kind of all the way down the list, because

19:29

there's a massive, massive chunk

19:31

not just in the US but around the world

19:33

that is not being reached out to or

19:36

UM trying to be brought into the

19:38

electronic payments UH and the way

19:40

that certain parts of the country are,

19:43

certain parts of the world already are, but even

19:45

going beyond that, I think as we start looking and

19:48

we have some very specific ideas of thought out,

19:50

we're putting together teams and building toward it. UM

19:52

some different aspects of working in blockchain when

19:54

he gets into the lending space, so

19:57

that you have a lot of people again not just in the US,

19:59

but around the world. You know what, I don't want to have

20:01

invest in companies that where

20:04

everything goes through China, everything goes through the CCP.

20:06

I want to know that this is gonna,

20:08

These are gonna people to support freedom and democracy.

20:12

Want to make sure that I'm not getting

20:14

again the highway robbery. I'm not paying way

20:16

too much to certain online

20:18

payment processing systems that again

20:21

in my opinion, or take

20:23

way too high of the fee. A lot of

20:25

these things can be done a lot cheaper to provide value

20:28

and savings to customers, but

20:30

also to make sure that if there's someone who

20:32

very strongly believes that,

20:34

say they're concerned again about you know, China or

20:36

some of the uh, some of

20:38

the other international concerns,

20:40

that they don't have to go and invest money in

20:43

or spend money with those places. So

20:46

a lot of the ideas I'll lead back to this

20:49

competition, Right, you want to compete

20:51

in the sense that you want to offer alternatives

20:53

because you feel like this area is

20:56

right for disruption. Tell me a little bit about that, because

20:58

you're you're not only talking about modern can you're talking about

21:00

payments. You're talking about just an alternative

21:02

ecosystem where people are crazy.

21:05

Yeah, I mean, look, it's when we talk about right

21:07

American and Blue America. And by the way, almost

21:09

every country on the planet has has their own version

21:12

of a you know, red or blue America. You know, people

21:14

might define themselves differently, the parties might be

21:16

different, uh, the ideologies might be

21:18

different. But then, like I mean, it's with

21:21

information now, you don't have to be

21:23

told to just think one thing. You can

21:25

you have your your al the car options

21:27

for for consuming news and

21:30

social media and stuff. But there are especially

21:33

as the h A lot of this is kind

21:35

of an extension what we've seen over the last ten

21:38

twenty years, maybe even thirty years in the

21:40

US, we're starting

21:42

moving towards different societies, not so much

21:44

based on party, but

21:46

really kind of based on this UH,

21:49

these kind of the global elites versus

21:51

the the hourly wage earners UH.

21:53

And different people define it in different ways. And

21:55

whether that's Brexit passing

21:58

or President Trump winning or UH President

22:00

ball Snara winning, or we saw the yellow vest

22:03

UH protests in France, there

22:05

were people are impact in different ways. You

22:08

have a large part of the world quite

22:10

frankly, nobody's reaching out to them and

22:12

saying we want to go and bring you to electronic

22:15

payment for forms. We want to go

22:17

and make things cheaper and easier and more accessible

22:20

for you. You kind of have folks who are

22:22

in the bigger cities, more urban areas, a

22:25

lot of them younger her, participating

22:27

in one economy UM. And

22:29

then you have other folks who very

22:31

much function in a different economy.

22:34

And I think that's one of the untold

22:36

stories of say COVID with the shutdowns

22:38

for example, that I think will come out in future

22:41

years when people look and say, you know

22:43

what, it's kind of easy to hang out in the basement

22:45

if your salaried worker. Uh, and just

22:47

hook up your zoom call and uh, you

22:49

know, we can catch up on Netflix until

22:51

there's you realize there's only one season, uh,

22:53

Tiger King, and then you're super bummed out. But

22:56

if you're safe, for example, if you're like you

22:58

know mild man who's a welder grown up

23:00

in Seattle. Guess what he

23:02

wasn't on salary? You know, it's either you show up and you

23:05

work and you get early wage or you don't.

23:07

And uh, people get impacted.

23:10

People are impacted by by COVID in different

23:12

ways. So it's kind of example of just yeah,

23:15

people from all walks of life, but a big

23:17

chunk of our country, big chunk of the world, nobody

23:19

is reaching out and said, we want to bring this technology

23:21

to you, we want to bring these payment platforms

23:24

to you, we want to give you, give you some of these

23:26

abilities, and I hope to fill that void. So

23:38

let's talk about politics a little bit, and it

23:40

this parlays into what you just said disaffected

23:42

voters. Right, do you think it's the end of Trump is um

23:45

here? Or are you pushing him to run

23:47

in Well,

23:49

of course I am, and I kind of wear it on my sleeve.

23:51

And I'm a big Trump supporter. I told

23:55

him that last night when I saw him. Um,

23:57

So I don't make any any bones about

23:59

that, but I think that, um, you

24:01

know, I think one of the things we saw with President Trump there wasn't

24:04

just look and I know a lot of folks

24:07

have have their own opinion to do. I don't think there's anyone

24:09

who's truly in the middle. I think you like him or

24:11

you don't like him. Um, but I

24:13

do think that there's uh, he's

24:15

really other than probably Jackson,

24:18

uh, you know, probably the first president who truly

24:20

was a real outsider. And

24:22

I think one of the things we saw was just how hard

24:24

the swamp fights back and uh,

24:27

you know it used to be in Washington that

24:29

uh you know, you get Democrat. Republican

24:32

says I want to spend eighty million. Democrats

24:34

says I want to spend a hundred million. They compromise

24:36

and spend a hundred fifty million. Right, let's just hey,

24:38

we'll just spend all the money. That's kind of the way it's

24:40

been done. But when you really start to try to make

24:43

changes, uh to Washington, then

24:45

it's like who moved my cheese? Okay, well, guess

24:47

what this impacts a couple hundred thousand people,

24:49

So, you know, try to move the

24:52

cheese of a couple hundred thousand people, they fight back

24:54

and they start shooting Attie. And I still think we have a

24:56

way to go to to close that gap about

24:59

how certain folks the in the country, their

25:01

their wealth is growing these uh

25:04

massive levels. You have other folks

25:06

who really haven't seen true wage growth

25:08

in two or three decades. Well,

25:11

you're talking to someone in the middle. I'd like to correct you,

25:13

Jason. I you will see nothing of

25:16

me saying something good or bad about President

25:18

Rum, So you're actually talking to someone who

25:21

doesn't feel strongly either way. I

25:23

guess it's more of I'm

25:25

I see it as a symptom of what you're talking

25:27

about, which is disaffected voters, disengagement,

25:30

uh, lack of economic you

25:33

know, opportunity in many parts of

25:35

our country and the world, and that's why

25:37

we're seeing these populous insurgencies

25:39

around the world. And I don't think it's

25:41

anywhere close to ending, as you just suggested,

25:44

So what can we do? Well, I would

25:46

say, yeah, And if I made

25:48

it sound like it's it was close to ending,

25:50

uh, then I misspoke or maybe I

25:52

wasn't as clear as as I should have been. And I think

25:54

when I think we still have quite a ways to go. Um

25:57

and and again this this isn't just an issue

25:59

in the US. US, and this is you know, we're seeing

26:01

a lot of We're seeing protests and things

26:03

pop up all over the world. So I would

26:05

agree that where there's still a ways to go. It's why I

26:07

still think that we need. I

26:09

think there's still some course corrections when it comes to the

26:11

economy and other things that really, uh,

26:14

you know, particularly in the US, I think

26:16

we uh, you know, as much I hate

26:18

to go back and say, you know, where's my ross

26:20

Parrow was right? T shirt, Uh you know,

26:22

like ross Parrow was right, you know, I

26:24

mean when he talked about the great sucking sound.

26:27

And you can go to literally towns in Ohio

26:29

and um in Michigan

26:31

and Pennsylvania that Trump ended up

26:33

winning in twos sixteen. They can trace

26:35

a lot of that back to that one particular

26:37

trade deal, for example. So I

26:40

do think that there's I think for too long our country

26:42

said that, uh, the same manufacturing

26:45

jobs are bad, not bad, but

26:47

we don't have to have those. We'd rather have the cheap flat

26:49

screen rather than have the manufacturing

26:52

jobs. Again, that's oversimplification, but

26:55

you know, you extrapolated out by a couple of decades and

26:57

we find ourselves where we kind of don't even

26:59

make anything, which that weakness

27:01

was exposed the beginning of COVID. It's

27:05

a massive problem, everything from rare earth

27:07

minerals to supply shortages across

27:10

the world. And it seems like we've

27:12

created a nightmare for ourselves. But

27:14

it doesn't seem like four years of Trump as I'm solved

27:16

that problem. It seems like that's just a

27:19

pattern that continues innovated. You

27:22

know, I'd pushed back a little bit on that and

27:24

say that I think there are I think

27:26

there's certain parts of continued both

27:29

on some of the domestic policy. I think the

27:32

way that President Trump had the

27:34

way he changed the trade dynamic. So

27:36

uh, look, prior to to President Trump,

27:39

trade wasn't even issue. I mean, in fact,

27:41

to the extent that trade did come up is very

27:44

much more the say, Capital Washington,

27:47

D c. Type Republicans saying that

27:49

we need to have absolutely unbridled

27:51

free trade. There shouldn't even be uh,

27:54

you know, you shouldn't even have a single dollar

27:57

tariff going towards China,

27:59

And I think President Trump has really kind of gotten folks

28:01

thinking through, Okay, what does this mean, um

28:04

if we if we don't make anything here anymore,

28:06

or what what has happened to some of these

28:08

uh, these towns and the mid

28:11

Midwest and the rust belt quite quite frankly

28:13

all over especially like manufacturing things like

28:15

that all around the all around

28:17

the country that shut down over the last couple of decades.

28:20

So I think the image there's has changed.

28:22

The importance is now realized. I think with foreign policy,

28:26

the fact that getting

28:28

America to stop being the world

28:30

cop, I think it's something that's much more

28:33

accepted as being kind of the mainstream

28:35

as opposed to, hey, let's be the

28:37

global interventionist. I do think

28:39

there's been a course correction on that. So

28:42

I do think there's some very and look the

28:44

other thing that point to Also, people

28:46

used to say, you know, Middle East piece,

28:48

that's insane, that's crazy. Who would ever think that's

28:50

possible? Who would have thought that President

28:52

Trump would have done more on the Middle East peace

28:55

front than uh, any other

28:57

president in US history.

29:01

Everything you're saying is correct. I mean, the narrative

29:03

has changed on those three issues, and you definitely

29:05

are correct on that. I guess with four

29:07

years of Trump is um, we still saw out of control

29:10

spending. And you know that

29:12

would be my biggest critique of the era

29:14

was that, you know, a lot of positioning

29:17

about fiscal conservatism was

29:19

had, but a lot of men was taken.

29:22

So you know, a problem in

29:24

Washington. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't

29:27

disagree with you on that point at all. I think the

29:30

I think a lot of a lot of folks, including Trump

29:32

supporters people are not Trump supporters, would

29:34

agree that that someone's been a problem because

29:37

I guess what a certain

29:39

point, that little thing called inflation catches

29:41

up with you. Um, and then you go and like

29:44

whoa gases? How much a gallant? Or

29:46

you know, how much is it for a loaf of bread? Or

29:49

even you know, as people saw it, here's

29:51

the increase even on something like a used car. So

29:54

no, a certain point, printing money does catch

29:56

up with you. Yeah,

29:59

and you know, it's hard to fight back against

30:01

spending proposals when the last administration

30:04

didn't really do anything about it, and congressional

30:06

Republicans did try to do something about

30:08

it, Many many moons Ago and seemed to have lost

30:10

that gusto during the Trump administration. And

30:12

if you're wanting to know what expensive gases like,

30:15

you're on Sunset Bulevard in Los Angeles. It's in

30:18

case you wanted to go for that

30:21

for premium, I drive an OUTI

30:23

so I gotta, I gotta. Okay,

30:26

Um, So where do we find out more about you? I mean,

30:28

you're this character that occasionally, you know,

30:30

rises up and we hear about you, mostly

30:32

through ghet Her. Where else can we find more

30:34

about you? I saw you that you are your

30:37

good sport, you said with the New York Times, he said,

30:39

with all sorts of media outlets. I guess

30:41

you subscribed to the Trump is a maximum?

30:43

You know, all press is good. Where

30:46

else can we find you? Besides the show? Of course?

30:48

Uh yeah, I wouldn't go quite that far. The

30:50

all press is good. But I think I'm

30:54

I'm a living example of that. But look,

30:56

I you know where I do disagree with some of my conservative

30:59

friends is that Uh look, you know I do

31:01

have it at New York Times, in Washington Post

31:03

and subscriptions. I even get The Economist

31:06

coming in hot every Saturday through the

31:08

Uh you know, through the mailbox here

31:10

at home. But I think it's it's important

31:13

to to have a dialogue and different

31:15

people are gonna have different worldviews. UM.

31:17

But if if you're not at the table, you're

31:19

not part of the conversation. And so that that's kind

31:22

of my approach on things is that's what I'm trying to do

31:24

with Getters that look, if I'm if I'm too

31:26

chicken, you know what, to show up and talk to Kara Swisher.

31:28

How is anyone ever going to take me seriously?

31:31

UH is running a tech company and being

31:33

someone who wants to compete with the big boys,

31:35

They're not going to UM. So I think the Carrot

31:38

Swisher interview UH with the New York

31:40

Times, I think would be a great place to go covered

31:42

a lot of the same topics that we did here. UM.

31:44

I also say you can follow me at Jason

31:46

Miller and d C on Getter. I

31:49

do have the same handle on Twitter, but you don't need to go to Twitter

31:51

anymore. Getters way more fun UM

31:53

And I think there's a couple of those are a

31:55

couple of good places that I think to UH.

31:58

I think to to give a start UM

32:00

and it kind of gives you a sense of the the approach

32:03

and uh what we're trying to do. I want this to be a

32:05

platform for everybody, and I want to make sure

32:07

that, uh, you know, when people

32:09

start getting the you know, the warning

32:11

or you've been putting time out for uh

32:14

twelve hours and you're not sure why or what

32:16

you said, you know that if

32:18

you didn't say anything that was there was you know,

32:21

illegal or infringing on someone else's free

32:23

speech rights, you know what, it's time to

32:25

create that gettor account. Yeah,

32:29

maybe we should apply a warning label to this interview

32:31

because you know, that's how it all started exactly

32:35

now it's I mean, it's going back to look. I

32:37

mean, do you remember the first album that you bought

32:39

they had uh prontal explicit

32:42

lyrics on it, one of those labels. Of

32:45

course I knew the FCC chairman who

32:48

put those on there. So

32:50

what was but what was your was like, what

32:53

was the first album you bought that had

32:55

one of those labels on? You know,

32:57

I didn't buy a lot of albums. My brother,

33:00

he didn't have one album that didn't

33:02

have that label. Every single one of them had that

33:04

label. I believe Nirvana never Mind

33:06

was one that stands out to me with the baby. Of course

33:09

he was recently in the news. Oh wait, did

33:11

Ivana have Okay, I don't remember Nirvana having, you

33:13

know, I remember for me it was it was n w

33:15

A. You know, like every every great

33:17

white kid in the suburbs. You know, I heard n w

33:19

A and I was like, and uh,

33:22

you know, when I'm in your neighborhood, you better duck.

33:25

I mean it's just uh, you know, loved

33:27

n w A. So that's uh,

33:29

that's great. Remember that was the first one. And uh,

33:31

look there's but there's in all seriousness, there's

33:33

different between you know, putting on a label

33:36

for kids and going and saying that here's

33:38

your opinion on uh, you know, current

33:40

current politics is uh

33:42

maybe somehow discounted or needs

33:45

to have you know, this person isn't really

33:47

telling the truth when they

33:50

believe that they're they're given their

33:52

factual opinion on something. Well,

33:55

I think just talking to people always help. So

33:57

thank you for doing that, and thank you for continuing

33:59

the converse station, because I feel like the problem

34:02

with political discourse in this country is that people don't

34:04

sit down and actually listen to the other side.

34:06

So congrats on all your success and we

34:08

look forward to hearing more about you. Excellent.

34:12

Well, stay safe out there in California.

34:14

Appreciate having me on the show. And we've got to get your

34:16

Getter account set up. Social

34:22

media it's something that's not going to go away

34:24

easily. You can deactivate your account, you

34:27

can pretend it doesn't exist, but

34:29

really usage is going up. There's

34:31

billions of people around the world using social

34:34

media and during the pandemic, usage

34:36

went up by percent. That's

34:38

according to an estimate by the company We are

34:40

Social. And they gave another statistic

34:42

that really left me shocked was that

34:45

the average social media user

34:47

spends one waking day every

34:50

week on social media, so it's

34:52

coming to occupy a lot of our time.

34:54

And in fact, another statistic they gave that's

34:57

really important is that percent.

34:59

So virtually everyone who's on one

35:01

social media platform is on another.

35:04

And here's another thing you need to know. Most

35:06

social media is consumed on mobile. Yes,

35:08

you're not the only one using it on your phone. And

35:10

it doesn't seem like too long ago that

35:13

phones were new and we were still doing everything

35:15

on a desktop. Well, now mobiles everything.

35:18

In fact, it's the wave

35:20

of the future for all business

35:22

so every organization, including

35:24

social media platforms, have to really ponder

35:27

how is my content being viewed?

35:29

And really the answer is mostly

35:31

on mobile and if they want to make money,

35:33

just like Gettor, just like Facebook,

35:36

Twitter, everyone's thinking about this. They

35:38

have to think about their integration

35:40

through of mobile into their business model.

35:43

And fundamentally everything's moving

35:45

toward a mobile centric

35:47

world, especially with e

35:49

commerce. We buy everything online and the

35:51

pandemic really rushed that transition

35:54

and made it a reality for all of us. So

35:57

you might be thinking social media is pretty annoying,

36:00

and it actually is pretty annoying. In fact, it's

36:02

the plot line of many movies we see

36:04

these days. I watched He's All

36:06

That last night on Netflix, which is of course

36:08

a remake of She's All That, a nineties

36:11

movie, and the whole plot was about

36:13

the main character being an influencer

36:15

on Instagram and getting sponsorships

36:17

here in Los Angeles, And really that's

36:20

the world we live in. But like anything

36:22

else, things change and platforms

36:24

will come and they will disrupt the current

36:26

platforms and a lot of these startups

36:29

may not go on, but they're gonna

36:31

put up a good fight, and like anything else

36:33

in American society, competition

36:35

is key to moving things forward. I'm

36:38

David Grasso. If you enjoyed the podcast, please

36:40

give me five stars so that others could

36:42

learn about this podcast. Thanks to

36:44

all of you for joining me as we all

36:47

followed the provident. A big thanks to Jason Miller

36:49

of get Her. This was an interview that I

36:51

could have gone anyway, and Jason was a great sport,

36:54

so we really appreciate that. And of course,

36:56

censorship and cancel culture is a big

36:58

concern for a lot of Americans

37:00

on the left and the right, and alternative

37:03

platforms see exactly what many see,

37:05

which is a business opportunity to give people

37:07

an alternative ecosystem. So I'd

37:09

like to thank my hard working team, Rob

37:11

Cheyenne Scott, the rest

37:13

of my staff, and our executive producers

37:16

New Gingrich and Gibbie Meyers Um David

37:18

Grosso. If you haven't noticed by now, if you'd like the show,

37:21

give me five stars and give us a review so

37:23

that others can learn what the show

37:25

is all about. Follow The Profit is a production

37:28

of Gingridge three sixty and I Heart Radio. For

37:30

more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart

37:32

Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

37:34

you get your Podcasts part

37:39

of the game which