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Kristin: William Marshal rose from obscurity in medieval England to become the winner of

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tournaments and the counselor and companion of kings.

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He may just have been the greatest knight who ever lived. We sure think so.

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Welcome to Part 2 of the career of one of medieval England’s most famous knights: William Marshal.

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Kristin: Hello, Footnoting History friends, it’s Kristin here - with Christine - and

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the thrilling conclusion of the story of one of the greatest knights who ever lived: William

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Marshal. If you missed part one, you’ll probably want to pause now and listen; but you’ll

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still be able to follow along with us here, even if you haven’t.

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Remember, that if you’d like a captioned version of this episode, you can find it on

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the Footnoting History website as well as our YouTube Channel.

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Please like and subscribe if you haven’t already.

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Thank you to our Patreon and Ko-Fi supporters and all you Footnoting History fans out there

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who have purchased merchandise from our Tee Public shop - we are so grateful to you for

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helping us keep Footnoting History running.

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Christine: Yes, thank you for everything you do.

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Every little bit helps us so much.

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Now, for William.

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Last time we went from the 1140s to the early 1180s.

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Today we are going to pick up in 1186, when William was about 40, and see it all the way

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through his death and, honestly, beyond, into the modern pop culture world.

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Kristin: So, as Christine just said, when last we left our noble knight, William Marshal,

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we were in the later 1180s and he was in Jerusalem, on a spiritual errand for the late Henry the

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Young King … although we don’t know exactly what William did there because: he didn’t

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tell us and neither did his 13th-century biographer, in “The History of William Marshal.”

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Marshal had survived the civil war of the 12th century, became a successful knight in

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his 20s by winning lots of medieval tournaments, and one after another, he served important

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roles in the courts of English kings…

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Christine: Indeed he did, and serving those kings brought him the opportunity to do something

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he probably could never have dreamed of otherwise: marrying a woman named Isabel de Clare.

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And it’s his marriage to her that is our first Great Moment in William Marshal’s

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life for this episode. Yes!

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So, when William returned from doing we-don’t-know-what in Jerusalem in 1186, he was welcomed back

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into the household of King Henry II and his loyalty to whomever he was assigned continued.

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Just like we said last time that he stuck with the Young King in rebellion against Henry

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II, now he was equally loyal to Henry II.

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He acted as a leader of the royal household guard and supported Henry on campaign against

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the French and against Henry’s son, Richard, when family issues over inheritance and power

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had yet again turned into all-out warfare.

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Notably, a story comes down to us through the biography that says at one point William

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and Richard came face-to-face in a spot where William could have put an end to the possible

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future king. Just as Stephen had once spared him, so William spared Richard.

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Kristin: The way that it’s described is that Richard said it would be wrong for William

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to kill him and William basically replied “No, let the devil kill you, for I won’t.”

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But instead of killing Richard, he killed his horse.

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This does not, let us be clear, count toward the balance of William Marshal awesomeness,

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in our opinion. Christine: That poor horse. But I guess he had, he had to make some sort of statement I guess, right? Kristin: I guess. Christine: Poor horse.

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But to get to his marriage, the point is that William stayed with Henry II to his death,

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which came in July of 1189.

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Not long before that, Henry had promised William a bride in the form of the aforementioned

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Isabel de Clare. Born sometime between 1170 and 1176, Isabel was a major heiress.

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Her mother, Aoife, was the daughter of an Irish king of Leinster and her father

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was Richard de Clare, also known as Strongbow, who was, well, quite frankly he was a big

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player in the English invasion of Ireland.

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He was English and he answered the Irish king’s request for aid, and then once he provided

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that aid, he was given the hand of the king’s daughter in return.

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I talk about this in my very first Footnoting History episode, waaaay back in 2013.

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If I did that topic now, I’d do it differently, but hey, everyone grows over the years.

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But, I did do it. As always, I digress.

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So, when Henry II died and Richard went from possible heir to actual heir, he honored his

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father’s promise. Kristin: I told Christine when we were planning this episode, that we have to include this bit: Allegedly, William was so excited

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when he got the news that he was allowed to marry Isabel that he ran to the ship and fell off the gangplank

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and they had to fish him out of the water. Which is just a great story and

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He was fine. Christine: He was like a quirky Hallmark hero.

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They were married quickly, and had ten children together, five girls: Matilda,

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Isabel, Sybil, Eve, and Joan.

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And five boys: William, Richard, Gilbert, Walter, and Anselm.

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Eventually, in 1199, King John would make William the Earl of Pembroke, a title with

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ties to Isabel’s family. It had been given to Isabel’s paternal grandfather by King Stephen, but it was later pretty much

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withheld from Isabel’s father by Henry II.

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William receiving the title restored it back to Isabel’s family line.

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Also, every time the title gets given anew, the number starts at 1 again, which always blew my mind.

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So William is called the 1st earl of Pembroke even though he isn’t the literal first person

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to ever have that title. His and Isabel’s sons would also be the earl of Pembroke.

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Why? Because none of William’s sons ever had sons.

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So instead of it going down the male line from father to son it went from father to

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son and then brother to brother.

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After that point, they ran out of male descendants, and the title kind of you know went back to the crown or whatever

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But despite William and Isabel’s significant age difference—

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Kristin: And for those keeping track it was somewhere between 25 and 30 years.

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Christine: Their relationship appears to have been pretty successful, at least we don’t

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have any indication that they had periods of estrangement, though I’m sure they argued

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every now and then like all people do. Kristin: Especially when you have ten kids. Christine: Yeah for sure.

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For example, it is believed that she disagreed one time when William decided to pardon some

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vassals who she didn’t think deserved it.

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But overall, they seem to have at least been content companions.

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And, if nothing else, Isabel was QUITE the prize politically.

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With her, through her parents, came lands in England, Normandy, Wales (that’s where

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the Earl of Pembroke title comes into it), and Leinster in Ireland.

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Kristin: One of the main places in Leinster that William and Isabel held was Kilkenny

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castle and, let me tell you, when we say William comes up everywhere, he comes up everywhere.

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I do a lot of work on the history of witchcraft persecutions in Europe, and I have run across

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William even here.

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And no, he wasn’t accused of witchcraft and he didn’t accuse anyone of it either.

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But there is a case that historians often point to as containing a lot of the hallmarks

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of later witch trials - and it happens in Kilkenny, Ireland in 1324-25.

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(It’s the case of Alice Kyteler, if anyone is interested.)

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But there he was - in Kilkenny!

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Way before Alice, but still. Christine: Yeah, that's, he's everywhere. Everywhere!

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When William eventually drew up his will, he declared that all the lands that

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had come to him from his wife would go back to her upon his death but, despite being between

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over two decades younger than her husband, Isabel would only outlive him by a year.

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She passed away in 1220 and was buried in Tintern Abbey in Wales.

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If you haven’t figured it out by now, I mean, William was a master at managing the

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Angevins, which is my next Cool Thing About Him.

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He somehow started with Eleanor, went to the Young King, rebelled against Henry II with

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him, then still got in good with Henry II, stayed with Henry II during his fights with

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Richard, and then when Richard became King, he not only kept his father’s promise of

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the bride for William whose attached lands and titles gave him significantly more clout

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and power, but he also kept William close.

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William spent a lot of time with Richard, and when Richard went off on Crusade, William

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stayed behind as one of the powerful men of the realm who sought to keep things in check,

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which also meant dealing with Richard’s younger brother John, who didn’t always

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play fair. Kristin: *laughing* John

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Christine: This is kind of like the Disney Robin Hood portion of the evening. At first things seemed to be going okay, but once it was discovered that Richard had been

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taken captive and imprisoned on the Continent, John started to flex his muscles.

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William was among those who, let's just say, pointedly made it clear that Richard

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was still King and John needed to calm down, until John vacated the area for a while.

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You’d think, much like all the other times William had to back the family members

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against each other, this would’ve backfired on him.

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But again it didn’t. By 1194 Richard was back and William was again supporting him against John’s overreach.

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BUT here’s the thing. Richard was the King of England, yet John’s titles included being a lord of Ireland.

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William had land in both locations.

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So, even though William was more than happy to play supportive buddy to Richard, when

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it came to his lands in Ireland, he openly told Richard, ‘look, you’re great and

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all, but technically John is my liege lord over there, so I can’t do homage to you

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for my Irish lands, only for other ones,’ and even though that made some people close

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to the situation go ‘woaw’, Richard was okay with it enough that William continued

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to be a valued asset to him up until his death in 1199.

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Then, William immediately shifted over to supporting John, and John responded to this

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by almost immediately giving William that title we talked about earlier: Earl of Pembroke.

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I’m just always so impressed by how he handled them.

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This is a man who didn’t start out with anything.

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He built himself up over decades of affiliation with this one family…which leads us to our

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next Big Thing which also happens to be the exact opposite of what I just talked about.

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It’s how he didn’t continue his constantly successful streak with King John.

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Kristin: Yes, when William was about 60 years old, which was in 1205, he hit a rough patch with

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King John - and like, honestly, who didn’t?

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John’s inability to hold lands in France annoyed a lot of the English nobility, to

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put it mildly.

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John was not pleased with William’s attempts to retain control of his lands in Normandy,

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which came at the price of William performing military service to the French king, while

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he was in France. Christine: Kind of funny since Richard essentially accepted William defending John’s lordship

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over Ireland not too long before, but they were very different people.

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Kristin: Oh, yeah. And I am critical of John for many things, but from the perspective of a medieval English

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king, I guess I can see where he’s coming from, in resisting one of his subjects paying

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homage to another king.

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John did not, however, accept the news gracefully.

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And in true King John fashion, he tried to get one of his knights to challenge William

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to a fight. No one accepted.

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John then demanded one of William’s sons as a hostage, to ensure that William behaved

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and if there was a toss up as to who should get the Marshal’s ultimate loyalty, it would

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be John. It was a reactionary, kind of petulant move on John’s part - very on brand, but also

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this had to bring back memories for William about his own childhood, when he was a hostage

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meant to ensure his father’s good behavior.

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And William largely does play ball.

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He’s at the English court, serving the king, and he is part of the escort that takes the

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Scottish king to York in November of 1205.

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He stays at the English court until John leaves for Poitou in 1206 - but William did not go

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back when John returned later that year.

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Also, in typical John fashion, John vacillated between trusting William and not trusting

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William. Christine: John’s instances of paranoia and shifting trusts are so legendary.

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Kristin: John ultimately allows William to go check on his Irish estates … but also

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demands that one of his sons stay back, as a hostage.

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This trip to Ireland ended up being tough for the Marshal - and there is some political

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fighting and some power struggles happening - and a lot of William’s supporters ended

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up deserting him. At one point, William was accused of helping William de Briouze, who was formerly a favorite

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of King John and who was at this point an enemy.

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It turned out, mostly, fine for William.

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John summoned him to appear before him in England and John has his tantrum and says

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that William intends him all kinds of harm - and William responds - eloquently, “The

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History” tells us - and John takes one of William’s castles, but he lets him go, even

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if he does reportedly does hold a grudge for awhile.

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The historian David Crouch calls the period from 1206-1213 a “biblical 7 years in the

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political wilderness” which is an appropriately dramatic way of putting things.

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William has a bit of a political come-back, though, in 1213 - after sucking up the appropriate

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amount to King John and he plays the part of royalist once again and is helping John

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out with the grumbling barons and represents John at various meetings with the baronial

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party. He may have sincerely been on John’s side - either because of some residual, personal

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or familial affection - or because deep down in his heart of hearts, William Marshal was

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a royalist on principle, no matter what.

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But he also may have been keeping his foot in that political camp while his son, William,

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Jr., was keeping his foot in the other, by backing the barons.

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Who could say? (There is some contemporaneous evidence that basically gives the side-eye to William’s

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motives.) So.

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Insert emoji shrug here. So, for this particular Cool Fact about William Marshal, you could say he had one incredible

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Come Back story. Christine: And it really shows how even after a period of being pushed aside he was still

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able to keep his head and balance things.

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Kristin: Yes! In July of 1215, there was a Baron’s War - there are a few in English history but this

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particular one is pretty famous because it started in June of 1215 with King John getting

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Magna Carta’ed.

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Magna Carta literally means Great Charter in Latin, and this document is most well known

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for what it had to say about baronial rights and curbing royal power - and John was strongly

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pressured to sign it at Runneymede.

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The pope didn’t hold John to it - and neither did John - and that led to the First Barons’

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War. William Marshal did help negotiate the terms of Magna Carta and he is one of 27 people

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who signed it. (The 1215 Magna Carta anyway.

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Magna Carta was reissued a few times - Henry III, who was John’s son, did reissue it

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but had some strong edits; Edward I reissued it, too - and you can actually see a copy

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of that one on display at the National Archives in Washington, D.C.

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You can see the original 1215 version at the British Library.)

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Historians used to believe that William Marshal was one of the main authors of Magna Carta

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but more recently, the view is that he was a voice of negotiation, and it’s really

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impossible to tell how much he contributed to the text of the document itself.

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While Magna Carta was being negotiated, one of the meetings happened at Temple Church

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in London. Christine: Alert!

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Remember that location for later. Kristin: Temple Church was the headquarters for the Knights Templar in London, and these

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negotiations were not … productive.

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When everyone met again, a few months later to try again, it was William Marshal who told

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the barons in London that John was ready to agree to their terms.

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John was at Windsor, which was near Runnymede, which was the fated spot.

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Christine: And honestly, John wasn’t long for the world at this point.

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Magna Carta happens in 1215.

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Side note: I remember like it was yesterday when, in like 2013, MAGNA CARTA was trending

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on Twitter and I was like “oh my God, John is having a moment!”

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and it ended up being about a new Jay-Z album.

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Kristin: I had that moment, too.

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Christine: I was fooled and I should have known better.

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But anyway, so Magna Carta is in 1215 and John didn’t outlive it by much.

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He passed away following October.

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William Marshal has now outlived (in order of death) Henry the Young King, Henry II,

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Richard I, Eleanor of Aquitaine (who died in, I believe, 1204 and had been his entry into the family,

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you may remember from last time), and John.

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He was no longer a young man, but he was still going strong and that’s why we have our

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next big thing: he basically became the next king’s guardian.

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Kristin: He did. After King John died, William Marshal started to act as regent - he oversaw John’s funeral

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at Worcester Cathedral and he took responsibility for the new king.

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John’s son, who became King Henry III and who was only like approaching 10 at this point

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- and William formally starts using the title regent or guardian on the 12th of November

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1216. William then spent years defending the royalist cause and the young King Henry.

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A lot of people who had deserted him before were now cozying back up.

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He’s 72 at this point and he’s still a knight fighting machine.

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There was a siege on Lincoln Castle by the French who were taking advantage of the baronial

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upset, and the Marshal was there, personally fighting.

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Nicola de la Haye - another about-70-years-old badass - was the castellan defending Lincoln

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and she did a pretty good job, too, but it was Marshal’s royalist forces who lifted

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the siege. The French were ultimately driven from England, due in no small part to William Marshal.

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Christine: But unfortunately all good things come to an end and if you’ve been counting,

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we’re at our final royal served by William Marshal.

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But that also means our next Big Cool thing is here, which is William’s final resting

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place. Kristin: In January of 1219, William Marshal became ill.

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We aren’t sure exactly what he was suffering from.

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“The History” is pretty vague about it all and just says he was taken with an illness

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that was painful and that progressed.

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Some historians speculate that it was bowel cancer, but really no one knows.

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He suffered for a few months. He traveled to the Tower of London where he saw the kingdom’s best physicians, but they

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really couldn’t do much to help him.

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William realized his time was up, and he left for his estate at Caversham.

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“The History” goes into a lot of detail about William Marshal’s deathbed, the things

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he said and how he settled his affairs, before he died on May 14, 1219.

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His body was taken back to London, and he was buried at Temple Church - that same Temple

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Church where Magna Carta history happened, not only a few years before.

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He’s still there, resting in effigy with his sons William and Gilbert beside him.

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And you can visit him. I did.

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I always do when I’m in London. I like to pop in and say hi.

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I do feel like we’re old friends, at this point.

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Christine: I think you are. Back in 2014 I was in London and I was determined to go visit William Marshal

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at Temple Church and I remember vividly how it felt to be there.

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There were four effigies. One, I believe, was labeled something like ‘effigy of a knight’ and the other three

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labeled as William Marshal and his sons William and Gilbert.

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The placard (and I took a picture of it so I’m actually going off of that) said that they had

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been in that formation since 1841 when a man named Edward Richardson had (and this is a

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quote) “over-confidently identified” one of them as the first William Marshal when

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prior to that, a different one of the four was identified as his. So, this makes me laugh

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because they're like it might have been right, it might not have been. So, I suppose the point... Kristin: Overly confident, I love that too Christine: Yeah, I'm going to post a picture of that on our website so you can all see that's what it said. So I suppose the point there is, one of the effigies is

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our William Marshal but it may or may not be the one identified as such.

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Also, in 1941, during the Blitz in World War II, Temple Church was hit by a bomb so really,

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we’re lucky to have anything of the effigies or the church left at all.

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Kristin: And we have put some of our pictures from our respective trips to Temple Church

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up on the blog post for this entry so you can see them for yourselves.

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You can tell just how delighted we are to be there.

24:03

Christine: I think you’ll like them!

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Also, though, William Marshal’s story doesn’t end with his death – and I don’t mean

24:09

just because we can still visit Temple Church to see his final resting place or even because

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we can read the famous biography we’ve talked about through this pair of episodes.

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What I mean is that William’s story still fascinates people today -- in part, for sure,

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due to the sheer volume of information we have about him – so that means he pops up

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in pop culture now and again, which is our final Big Point About William Marshal.

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Now, Kristin, I don’t know, do you remember the first time you heard the name William

24:37

Marshal… Kristin: It’s funny - or maybe it’s boring - but I first heard William’s name in a

24:43

book by Constance Bouchard called Strong of Body, Brave and Noble, which is about the

24:49

evolution of medieval knighthood - and at one point, she’s talking about the juvenes

24:55

- which literally means “young people” in Latin and its this group of sons

25:00

who aren’t going to inherit, who aren’t entering the church, and who are trained in

25:05

warfare, how they spent their young knight years going to tournaments trying to make

25:09

a name and money for themselves - and she says that probably the best-known juvenes

25:16

was William Marshal, who made a fortune on the tournament scene and went on

25:21

to be the regent of England.

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And I was like, wait, what?

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I’ve never heard of this guy, he sounds awesome.

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And probably I was a little insecure because he was “so famous” and I hadn’t heard

25:34

about him. So, I read and I kept reading and it was just one WOW moment after another for me. Christine: I like that yours was an academic book and

25:45

mine is about to not be. My first encounter with him was in Sharon Kay Penman novels.

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I know regular listeners are probably tired of hearing me talk about her work, but I’ll also

25:56

probably never stop because it was so influential on me. Kristin: She's great. Christine: Yeah, she's great.

26:02

William turns up in several of her books, though he is never the star, because her focus

26:06

is usually on the royals—you know, Matilda, Stephen, Henry II, and his sons, or the Welsh

26:11

princes. He definitely appeared in the first of her novels that I read, Here Be Dragons Kristin: Oh so good. Christine: Yes, which

26:19

is about the conflict between King John and Welsh Prince Llewelyn Fawr, who was married

26:24

to John’s illegitimate daughter, Joan or Joanna.

26:27

But, my most vivid memory of him in my early days of devouring her books is when in When

26:33

Christ and His Saints Slept (her novel about the Anarchy that we talked about

26:38

in Part I) she dramatized the standoff between King Stephen and William’s father.

26:43

I highly suggest looking up those novels and Penman’s others about the era and playing

26:48

‘Find William Marshal’ in them.

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It’s fun to see where he pops up. Kristin: He's like Waldo. Christine: Yes!

26:55

If you’re looking for historical fiction that puts him at the center of the action,

26:59

I’d turn more to Elizabeth Chadwick.

27:01

She has several books about him that are great. The Greatest Knight is the first half of his life story and The Scarlet Lion looks more

27:08

at his life after his marriage to Isabel de Clare.

27:11

There’s also Templar Silks, which I am ashamed to say I have not yet read but I have put

27:15

on my Christmas list since having this revelation.

27:18

That one imagines in part what might have happened when he was in Jerusalem. Kristin: That's just part of being an historian, just FYI

27:26

You have tons of books on your to-read list and it never gets smaller because you keep adding to it. Christine: It's true. Kristin: I’m honestly surprised there aren’t legions of novels speculating about that era

27:40

since, because we don’t know what happened, when William Marshal was in Jerusalem. it would be a free-for-all.

27:47

His life would also make a great miniseries.

27:52

Maybe HBO should pick it up.

27:55

Call us, HBO. We're here. Christine: Yes. We’re here for you HBO, or BBC, or ITV, or Starz, whoever wants it.

28:02

We need a proper, epic William Marshal story.

28:05

We don’t have that yet, at least not one that I’ve ever heard real sustained chatter about.

28:10

What we do have though includes three films.

28:13

William Marshal pops up in the form of William Hurt in the Ridley Scott Robin Hood starring

28:18

Russell Crowe. Then there’s Ironclad, which came out in, I think, 2011, and starred Paul Giamatti as King John

28:25

and James Purefoy – who I love – as, wait for it…Thomas Marshall.

28:32

Purefoy’s Thomas Marshall happens to be a Templar knight entangled in a confrontation

28:38

between John and Barons at Rochester. It was, quite frankly, not a great movie, but it was impossible not to think “William

28:46

Marshal inspiration” every time James Purefoy was shown as Thomas Marshall with his big ol’

28:51

red Templar cross. Kristin: Christine is being too kind about this movie.

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Christine: I really wanted it to be great. Kristin: We get a little bit more Williamisms in the older, but much better film, A Knight’s

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Tale where Heath Ledger played William Thatcher, who was at least partially inspired by our

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William Marshal. Although yes, “Canterbury Tales” is also often cited as a major influence on the film,

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but it’s really hard not to watch him in a tournament (even if it’s not the melee kind of tournament)

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and not think of William Marshal.

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But, alas, we are still waiting for a true William Marshal film or miniseries, and if

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it ever does come, we are going to judge it harshly, but hopefully love it.

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We want to love it. Christine: I really hope we can really love it, if it ever happens.

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But speaking of love-hate. As our closer I just want to mention that in May of this year, 2022, William Marshal

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was in the news! Found that out when I was working on this episode.

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After several years of work from the Pembroke and Monkton Local History Society and creator

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Harriett Addyman, a statue of William Marshal on horseback was unveiled outside of Pembroke

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Castle. Okay so it was criticized, as you would expect, by some as honoring a man who was a medieval oppressor (after all he

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was an Englishman who inserted influence over the Welsh and Irish that they didn’t

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ask for) while others celebrated it, because of how ‘admirable’ and influential William

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was in medieval history. The pictures I saw of it looked great.

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I’d like to see it. Kristin: Maybe that should be our next field trip.

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Christine: I'm ready, I would love that.

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Thank you everybody for following along with us.

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Please don’t hesitate to let us know through social media (we are on Instagram, Twitter,

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Facebook, and Pinterest) what your favorite William Marshal Life Event was.

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We’d love to hear from you.

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You should also, if you can, visit FootnotingHistory.com for further reading suggestions and fun photos

30:53

pertaining to William, as well as to learn more about us, your hosts, and to learn how

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to help support the podcast. Our next episode is going to be our second annual history for the holidays but, until

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then, remember: the best stories are in the footnotes.