0:02

Hey, it's Cameron host of

0:04

At Peace weekly Economics podcast.

0:06

Ones and Twos: Are you

0:08

intrigued by how technology like

0:11

artificial intelligence and cloud computing

0:13

are affecting geopolitics? Do care

0:15

about how governments are using

0:17

these tools. If so, then

0:20

I'd recommend checking out Microsoft

0:22

Public Sector Future Podcast: Head

0:24

over to Ak A.m S/public

0:26

Sector Future to find all

0:28

the episodes or just search

0:31

for public sector. Future where

0:33

you get your pockets. Hi.

0:39

I'm Rob the or grew on Foreign

0:41

Policies Editor in Chief. This is

0:43

Fp lives. Walk

0:48

Into the show! This program often

0:50

focuses on stories that dominate the

0:52

halls of power from the Beltway

0:55

to Brussels and Beijing. But we

0:57

wanted to examine a crisis today

0:59

that is not getting much attention

1:01

in those places. And. It

1:03

should. I'm talking about Haiti.

1:05

Quite simply, Haiti is in

1:07

deep trouble. This is the

1:09

biggest security crisis in the

1:12

Western Hemisphere. More than eighty

1:14

percent of Haiti's capital. Is

1:16

controlled by gangs. Violence in Port

1:18

Au Prince has driven more than

1:20

a hundred and sixty thousand people

1:22

to flee. Fifty thousand of them

1:25

in just the last few weeks.

1:27

How. Did we get here? When

1:29

it comes to Haiti, there are many,

1:32

many moments in history you could point

1:34

to as causes for the current strife.

1:36

After all, the Haitian revolution that began

1:38

in the seventeen nineties was one of

1:41

the biggest slave rebellions ever recorded in

1:43

the west, and it was followed by

1:45

Haiti having to pay reparations to France.

1:48

Imagine. That not France to Haiti.

1:50

But. The other way round. But.

1:53

The most proximate flashpoint was in

1:55

late February when acting Prime Minister

1:57

Ariel Henri was out of the

1:59

country. A major gangs

2:01

coordinated to attack state institutions. They

2:03

burnt police stations, sprung inmates from

2:06

prison, and attacked the seaport and

2:08

the airport. The city is now

2:10

cut off from supplies of food

2:13

and medicine, and aid organizations are

2:15

wanting of an impending salmon. This

2:17

is a humanitarian crisis, the likes

2:20

of which has not been seen

2:22

since the massive earthquake there in

2:24

Twenty Ten. All

2:26

of this, as it often

2:28

does, is happening in a

2:31

political vacuum. In July, twenty

2:33

twenty one President Juvenile Mores

2:35

was assassinated by armed gunmen

2:37

inside his home. We still

2:39

don't know who was responsible.

2:41

A month ago, the unelected

2:43

western backed Henri announced that

2:45

he would resign, but only

2:47

off to the installation of

2:50

a transitional presidential council. That

2:52

council, after weeks of negotiation,

2:54

finalize their political framework. Earlier

2:56

this week. As of this taping, it

2:58

is now up to Henri to accept

3:00

it. Will. He

3:02

what is a democratic transition for

3:05

Haiti look like, can Haitian police

3:07

quell the violence or will an

3:09

international force be deployed to help

3:11

them? Those are the questions we're

3:13

going to explore the answers to

3:15

with me this week or two

3:17

people who have been closely following

3:19

this crisis. Jacqueline Charles is the

3:21

Miami Herald award winning Caribbean correspondent.

3:24

She's covered Haiti for more than

3:26

a decade and Jake Johnson is

3:28

a senior research associates for the

3:30

Center for Economic Policy and Research.

3:32

He is the author of a

3:35

Time The New Book Aid State,

3:37

Elite, Panic, Disaster, Capitalism and the

3:39

Battle to control Haiti. Remember

3:43

if you like this podcast you

3:45

can try some video live on

3:47

Foreign policy.com Subscribers get to ask

3:49

questions to and you know you

3:51

want to use the code s

3:53

P Live for a discount. Aside.

4:00

Jarquin Jake welcome to have to

4:02

live. Like

4:05

ravenous. Great. To have you

4:07

on And thanks for making a smarter

4:09

about eighty something. I wanted to start

4:11

with you. I know you have extensive

4:13

contacts in Haiti with Insomnia and of

4:15

course all of your diplomatic sources paint

4:17

us a pitcher. What is life like?

4:19

the people on the ground right now.

4:22

I. Mean. If there's one word, I

4:24

can see the bad is systemic. You

4:26

just don't know what every day is

4:28

going to break. On you

4:30

know you wake up. And we

4:33

hear the gunshots. The mean people are

4:35

telling me that when they don't hear

4:37

the gunfire that's when he started

4:39

to panic. the wonder what's wrong with

4:42

this Now it's become such a high

4:44

since. See for that. Ah you

4:46

know. Unfortunately you know with the vandalism,

4:48

the burning, the looting of hospitals it's

4:51

very difficult to get health care

4:53

and is some I say today people

4:55

still get sick odds his last. The

4:57

you know I interviewed a young lady

4:59

is literally is watching a mother died

5:01

a mother had not had dialysis. Armed

5:04

and basically like six sleep. Because.

5:07

The only place that she could get

5:09

it the General hospital of the face

5:11

it lead you know that functionally to

5:13

the games taken over that entire road

5:15

with can't go anywhere. If you take

5:18

that risk you don't know whether you're

5:20

going to be the next victim and

5:22

the doctor said that we are. You

5:24

get a phone call from a patient and

5:26

first series the sense of panic for you

5:28

in terms of taking this personal risk to

5:31

see to go out. And then we

5:33

you get they would we do you

5:35

do with there's no medication on sister

5:37

store shelves are starting to run their

5:39

in about two weeks relax with and

5:42

really sorts to get man carrying prices

5:44

because is that. The people. In the

5:46

camps but also the people who are not

5:48

in the camps. Were not and be able

5:50

to find food because the airport the seaport.

5:52

Sat down for. Over a month. Jake.

5:55

I am wondering if you can add to that

5:57

what are you hearing about what's going on in

5:59

Haiti? And where do you rank this

6:01

in terms of other crises Haiti has had

6:04

in the past. Yeah I

6:06

thinking in almost every weighing. In

6:09

recent history I prepared for for

6:11

years and again at Uniting when

6:13

you don't understand a distant just

6:15

happen. A month ago this has

6:17

been a long time coming along

6:19

time building. There have been warnings

6:21

about it reaching the stage for

6:23

many years raid and yet we

6:25

have to sort of continually seen

6:27

this and a you know immunizing.

6:29

Jackie's right about that, the switch

6:31

on the ground any things are

6:33

obviously really tense and I think.

6:35

There's also justice this unknown,

6:37

partially because. Nobody. Is

6:39

speaking right there. The authorities that are

6:41

currently in power and Henri is out

6:43

of the country totally silent. His presidential

6:46

council that's being formed with the backing

6:48

of international powers also totally silent and

6:50

in that absence who it away speaking

6:52

are are the leaders of armed groups

6:54

or politicians on the and are advocating

6:56

for very different things. And so what

6:58

is the authority? What is the plan?

7:00

I think everyone sort of in the

7:02

dark. Chocolate in a

7:04

gang still controlled much of the

7:06

roads and so the have you

7:08

know control of sorts of the

7:10

airport, the seaport, how is any

7:12

humanitarian aid getting in, and you

7:14

know what kind of access to

7:17

a goods have right now. So.

7:20

You know the U N recently

7:22

signed report that aren't last month?

7:24

Or one hundred and fourteen. I think it's a number. That

7:27

the audit it's eruption it's on

7:29

said he high. It's it brings

7:31

a to individuals I merely and

7:33

can't as they have been using

7:35

his birth rates. helicopter i'm a

7:37

government doesn't have any in and

7:40

helicopter seems to be that the

7:42

the game and Sally listen to

7:44

see as easy as it to

7:46

get people to see patients elites

7:48

but they are using that. I'm

7:50

somewhat a pilot sports have managed

7:52

she still gets you know rodents

7:54

and but sadly saw that the

7:57

gays hijack equal ah last week

7:59

of those. This also have managed

8:01

to get us in pain or

8:03

to out there pay. Enormous amount of

8:05

faces Helps were see you know

8:07

fight of faith. Food items go up

8:10

by a. You know, over

8:12

forty percent or so. It's very

8:14

difficult. And then the World Food Programme

8:16

friends. they're having to make them really tight

8:18

decision for me. Locked. The reality is it's

8:20

sad that you a necessity for six hundred

8:22

and seventy four million dollars. In the last

8:25

time I checked the only B C forty

8:27

five million dollars. So the world is not

8:29

opening. it's checkbooks. not even for these you

8:31

manage Harry. And for five to people. Or

8:33

die they needed to the the medicine they

8:36

need. Water. On. and so they

8:38

are some displacement camps where there is

8:40

no we aren't because he just isn't

8:42

enough to go around and so they're

8:44

having fun. make decisions just like the

8:46

police were to. Why does this place

8:48

is. Is it? A rough thing this

8:51

other place way over here to idol they

8:53

are and and that I think is the

8:55

real tragedy that for today we're happy to

8:57

decide who lives the attempt to say. To

9:00

queer lot about the gangs who's taken

9:03

control of Port Au Prince. What do

9:05

they once. Yeah,

9:08

I think this is an excellent question.

9:10

that he knew the biggest question as

9:12

he remains unanswered. I think we need

9:14

to understand a few things. One is

9:16

we have this ostensible coalition or the

9:18

came together to to force I agree

9:20

out. but these are very disparate actors

9:22

with disparate interests. I think it the

9:24

reality of there's not one goal, right?

9:26

There are multiple goals in a lot

9:28

of different interests at play here, and

9:30

that's part of why this is so

9:33

confusing. I think we do have to

9:35

see this as very connected to the

9:37

political. Developments at the history of armed

9:39

groups and eighty is closely linked with

9:41

political and economic interest in Haiti, and

9:43

I think he remains out today, though

9:45

obviously that sort of levels of coordination

9:48

control perhaps have changed in recent times,

9:50

but I think you know what do

9:52

we mean by control rights groups are

9:54

exercising for a de facto territorial control,

9:56

but are not. Actually replacing the

9:58

state or take. The overstate control.

10:00

And so I think there is a

10:03

real question of of if that their

10:05

goal or if they are intending to

10:07

increase bargaining power, negotiation, leverage, or support

10:10

the political aspirations of other actors. Outside

10:12

of of these armed groups themselves, I

10:14

think we've been pretty clear we've seen

10:16

at least a certain level of tacit

10:19

coordination between the armed groups in the

10:21

political ambitions of Key Felipe, a former

10:23

paramilitary leader who was recently departed back

10:26

from the United States after serving time

10:28

for money laundering charges relate to drug

10:30

trafficking and self again disentangling all of

10:32

these computing interesting and computing motivation is

10:35

there is a big challenge. Certainly

10:38

has been a month now since

10:40

acting Prime Minister Ariel Henri announced

10:42

his resignation, and it looks like

10:44

a transitional council has been finalized.

10:46

Who's on that council? What? What

10:48

do they hope to achieve? This

10:51

is a very interesting to watch because

10:54

it's yellow. Statements. In

10:56

the beginning you know no one is talking. By

10:58

you tell where it were talking,

11:00

right where where where we're getting

11:03

information. And I think the first

11:05

thing it's gonna be as as the

11:07

members as powerful have to figure out

11:09

what their role for me the criticisms

11:12

having any haiti is that they've given

11:14

themselves as enormous amount of power that

11:16

constitutionally on see the president would normally

11:18

have so for instance wanted to see

11:21

disease said is that they will fire

11:23

the next prime minister well that's usually

11:25

the purview of a of a parliament

11:27

that the prime minister is is is

11:29

elected on the when we looked at

11:32

the know this is. What you write

11:34

on paper and and as to reality and

11:36

wanted to concerns it's sad. It's than when

11:38

they finally to get a prime minister and

11:41

governments Are you not super katie rolls or

11:43

read any go into some sort of paralysis

11:45

in terms of who's in charge of we

11:47

should be in charge Criticisms It says the

11:50

fact that with his counsel at seven am

11:52

voting members and she'll observers for you look

11:54

at it is to select civil society says.

11:56

Of really played a very active role than all

11:58

of these years, but they. Getting it sort

12:00

of Observer sad. there's only. One comment

12:02

on a leash she represents the the

12:05

religious group which see other observers and

12:07

the others are individuals who had some

12:09

ways for the most part of the

12:11

couple of them have serving government of

12:14

for older individuals last seventy reflecting the

12:16

demographics or what you're hearing from you

12:18

know the street. So I think that

12:20

this council has a huge challenge because

12:23

some people see that is going to

12:25

get into. The palace. The palace by

12:27

the way doesn't exist because of session

12:29

in terms the being installed and working

12:31

out of the palace which has been

12:33

under repeated attacks. On but the thing

12:35

to they're gonna get an as is like

12:38

their finger and tomorrow everything of sin of

12:40

the great a wonderful and so I didn't

12:42

say this libya rude awakening their arm for

12:44

you know for the individuals. Or what

12:46

wishing them success was. System. Not

12:48

look like a clear path. Will. Have

12:51

very mark them very uncertain. I

12:53

went off his to talk a

12:55

little bit more. I'm talking about

12:58

the strengthen civil society because you

13:00

know. One criticism of the way

13:02

in which the world has handled

13:04

of various crises in Haiti of

13:06

the years is that it hasn't

13:08

really empowered civil society enough for

13:10

turns to it enough for it's

13:12

input. An off road. You know

13:14

for democracy to flourish, you needed

13:16

to grow roots from within, and

13:18

you need people to rise up

13:20

from within. Give

13:23

us a sense of you know

13:25

how civil society acts today is

13:27

it's seen as strong. Does it

13:29

have strong institutions? You

13:32

know, one of the biggest issues with Haiti

13:34

is the fact that we don't have strong

13:36

institutions. In some see snow instances and when

13:38

I think of heat settle for a the

13:40

context of say the only to think about

13:42

my own group in terms of journalists I

13:45

think the see the humor right sector me

13:47

they have been the one citizen literally then

13:49

the watchdog. And spices you know, telling

13:51

us about the various massive for see

13:54

it says the. How many people had

13:56

sites and the I think about you know

13:58

the last Sally massacre that happen the couple

14:00

years ago and it's it's way our armed

14:03

gangs in suits individuals who are connected to

14:05

former. Presidents i'm just normally government basically

14:07

launched an attack in a working athlete

14:09

in the import of friends and he

14:12

the babies were killed. I mean we

14:14

learned about that because of the dearth

14:16

of the human rights groups and so

14:19

you know in a country where everything

14:21

has been crumbling three years to me

14:23

they have managed to see their anti

14:25

beach you know the eyes and ears

14:28

and we also have watched to way

14:30

acts in this frustration over for the

14:32

cheers it to charity the circumstances you

14:35

get. The sense sometimes. With like we're

14:37

gonna pick our fight because not everything you.

14:39

Know these calls out, but it's under

14:41

tremendous pressure on rights to their own,

14:43

wise to their own survival that they

14:45

do the work that they do in

14:47

the In. When you look at the

14:49

Us is for foreign for him or

14:51

rights. Situation Haiti. It's very clear

14:53

often. That set fatal have people in

14:55

the indices that enjoys the actually relying on

14:58

the work. Of the human race sector arm

15:00

and he's sort of day when you see

15:02

them sort of to take this observation role

15:04

and maybe take to talk about this more.

15:06

I mean it's just really. You know, sort

15:08

of think the question in terms of

15:10

we're or. Everybody else wanted to

15:13

go with this and see that bullshit

15:15

the after. Since then because they have

15:17

been a real debate about whether or

15:19

not the politicians to be the ones

15:21

leading the council is to just be

15:23

like and shield or civil society and

15:25

defend the politicians to go campaign for

15:27

election. Take on love.

15:29

You take on that and you

15:31

know it's also because when you

15:33

have this kind of a council,

15:35

what legitimacy doesn't have to do,

15:37

the people see it as something

15:40

that is the right. The corrected

15:42

instrument to lead them events leads

15:44

to another election and a democratic

15:46

leader. Or are they just didn't?

15:48

you know bit more apathetic about

15:50

it. Yeah.

15:52

I think you know for some civil society

15:54

I think we have to understand to do

15:56

and is where this idea of a council

15:58

really began And that. Largely with civil

16:00

society who came up with his proposal

16:03

many years ago to create a council

16:05

and a check or alternative to the

16:07

power of Henri and it was totally

16:09

discarded by the international community. This is

16:11

a two year plan. I was unwieldy

16:13

and too long and not serious been

16:15

involved, political actors right and and instead

16:17

of the choice was to continue to

16:19

back Henri And so now we're sort

16:21

of at this point now where it's

16:23

all happening. Very. Rushed as you

16:25

know, with the sort of threat of violence,

16:28

hangover everything and that's making it a lot

16:30

more difficult. But we do have to understand

16:32

that is where the the idea of the

16:34

council came. I think this question of legitimacy

16:36

is extremely important and it would Jackie saying

16:38

around the concerns on a counseling girl. True

16:40

but one of the. Big. Council

16:43

also was just that little, a process that

16:45

has seen as control than directed by the

16:47

international community. Again, right? And if the problem

16:49

in the past was that political leaders legitimacy

16:51

was coming from outside actors, not from inside

16:54

Haiti, the certainly is. Feeding.

16:56

The perception that that same pattern

16:58

is being repeated and so again

17:00

as think the council will have

17:02

to take significant action right regardless

17:04

of constitutional duty were popular. legitimacy

17:07

of is what's going to matter

17:09

more than anything moving forward and

17:11

that's. Not relevant to what's written

17:13

on the paper. It's what can they actually provide

17:15

the people and what sort of a process may

17:17

initiate. To. Broaden their speakers.

17:19

The reality is, I think there has

17:21

to be some sort of a a

17:23

broader national dialogue that takes place, and

17:25

eighty, this council can't be the answer

17:28

by itself. But. Is. Potentially.

17:30

Right an opening to build something on.

17:33

Add the whether they are able. Boats.

17:35

From their own perspective, and whether they're constrained

17:37

by the international actors that has. Helped.

17:40

Coordinate in it and formed as council. You

17:42

know that's going to be that the Big

17:44

Five moving forward and whether or not they're

17:46

able to overcome that you to really obtain

17:48

popular legitimacy inside of Haiti. Have

17:51

flat. Hello Up Three One of the when

17:53

when I thought the people that then fall

17:55

in session is there were any accusations and

17:58

they actually were very frustrated because the. Felt

18:00

like see we're not getting guidance

18:02

from the international community. And it so

18:04

those who are like have been under sort of

18:07

a rupture mindset, right? They basically felt that international

18:09

on what we're not doing enough and as he

18:11

was it's more of an observable and I see

18:13

that the eminent as one of biggest issues and

18:16

he. That the perception is reality after time

18:18

see don't match and it doesn't matter with

18:20

the reality is it only says perception of

18:22

big brother but. I think that also the

18:24

council members haven't done themselves any favors in

18:26

that it literally he can over one week

18:28

for them to come up. you know, sort

18:30

of with a pool you know, with a

18:32

political for it's and in the to take

18:34

it as far as our mans. Like

18:36

back and forth to to to do all.

18:38

of their than so you know and people are

18:41

saying like you know what a prince is burning

18:43

and as an engineer you know. Who? you.

18:45

Know where we're having this debate over

18:47

over the sole minor detail fell again.

18:50

I don't know how they get out

18:52

of fab because I think the yes

18:54

the way in which is this was

18:56

brokered back down. It's also meeting down

18:58

in Jamaica with secretary think blinking personally

19:01

flying down there to get the same

19:03

mattress in a rumble even before me.

19:05

The job Now we're fighting Villa refusing

19:07

to negotiate with him and then even

19:10

act as as desired they still couldn't

19:12

really do were quietly in India, Brazil

19:14

the these issues. So this is of this

19:16

is a real fast and ah. And.

19:19

As a lot of debate sun on I

19:21

you know but again the legitimacy issues we

19:23

have to remember we're in a we are

19:25

out of a constitution even those who taught

19:28

the body a judge. While the my the

19:30

constitution does not provide. That routes for you

19:32

know for each effect of cell and person

19:34

over the legitimacy of the judges have suffered

19:36

are going to be constitutional questions raised about

19:39

any possible mean. And so that's again why

19:41

I would go back to the question apart

19:43

with the Genesee because it's is what any

19:45

government result, whether it's one person from the

19:47

court, whether it's a council, whether it's give

19:49

a leap I mean the reality is that

19:51

the individual or the structure is not what's

19:53

important as much as what they can actually

19:56

do and what they can show to a

19:58

population to actually get support. You're

20:00

right, I can mean I don't think

20:02

the blame entirely is on the and

20:04

ask viewing and I did say perception

20:06

right because I think that is important.

20:08

But who has spoken about this council

20:10

right? We've seen a few statements, written

20:12

statements but publicly you know it was

20:14

international diplomat was foreign diplomats that we're

20:16

speaking about this negotiation that was happening

20:18

right. They're speaking in English to an

20:20

international audience and not said people in

20:22

Haiti or they might be left to

20:24

right the phenomena Such a as great

20:26

hope so for these Okay these are

20:28

Lincoln, Chafee, Neptune, Lionel. I. Want

20:30

to do something here? So in a

20:33

bit I want to look at the

20:35

path forward and the role of the

20:37

international community. It's and I want to

20:39

take some subscriber questions. but before we

20:41

do any of that I think what

20:43

could be really helpful. He has to

20:45

take a little bit of a look

20:47

back and want to get a better

20:49

senses are we got here and Jake

20:51

Media begin with you here. I mean

20:53

it's been almost three years since seventy

20:55

on my he was assassinated in his

20:57

home. We still don't know exactly who

20:59

was responsible for. That, But as

21:01

I said earlier, that many, many

21:04

moments in history that you could

21:06

point to as a key reason

21:08

why we got here. If you

21:11

would quickly summarize why we're here,

21:13

what would you point to? L

21:16

a quick quickly going to be the operative

21:18

word there and there is a long history

21:20

and it all built that each other right.

21:22

This is decades of a foreign policy. decisions,

21:24

local decisions of economic policies, right thing for

21:26

me. I think at the root of so

21:28

much of this is. The

21:31

inability of of of eighty two acts. We

21:33

a sovereign democracy, right? It's been at interfered

21:35

with for so long. Whether that be cool.

21:38

I think weekend at overturned election result That

21:40

I think that's where I would start with

21:42

it. the present situation as the overturning of

21:44

the two Thousand and Ten, Two Thousand and

21:47

eleven election results after the earthquake. That and

21:49

it's really change that, Sir Jack Three of

21:51

Haiti both in terms of a democracy but

21:54

also accompanied by billions of dollars in foreign

21:56

assistance, right? And these two dynamics of money

21:58

that largely bypass the guy. They bite

22:00

have local institutions have largely undermine

22:02

some of these domestic organizations. Grassroots

22:05

organizing combined with a really heavy

22:07

hand on the political side of

22:09

things choosing Haiti's leaders been at.

22:11

We've seen this. Overtime.

22:14

Over the last fifteen years, steadily declining

22:16

participation, erosion of any faith in democracy,

22:18

and the inability of agents to chart

22:20

their own path forward. And in the

22:22

absence of that, in this sort of

22:24

decimation of democracy, right you've had these

22:27

this. Sort. Of turn to paramilitary

22:29

violence, to settling political scores through violence

22:31

routed through and through other means. and

22:33

I think that sort of break down

22:35

at his again at the heart of

22:37

so much of this. And that's not

22:39

just a story about hating that, the

22:41

story also about the role of international

22:43

actors in Haiti and foreign policy decisions

22:45

from the Us from the United Nations

22:47

and from other countries that have helped

22:49

stabilize the situation and cause the present

22:51

situation. Got. A Know and

22:53

love your take on the same question. Sally

22:56

still. That to the Twenty Ten

22:58

earthquake. I mean I just remember

23:00

the pressure fallacy. Plan on arms

23:02

like as they run a profile.

23:05

On said see in a lecture

23:07

at All Costs. Literal. Theism

23:10

his of this said censor debris.

23:12

ah I remember the government's saying

23:14

announcing that that the death toll was

23:16

three hundred and sixteen thousand and in

23:18

I love when I have I look

23:21

at the numbers either from us. The

23:23

A. Theory or to us government or whatever

23:25

the number the always. Something else and that

23:27

to me says so much because slightly

23:30

don't believe these. Workers and it's help you

23:32

with it you know what what what it

23:34

is but even before the way he out

23:36

there was a measure stability that in that

23:38

country but it was doesn't get it will

23:40

and you know. The Acer: It's talking

23:42

about a foot pole paradigm shift elite

23:44

and we saw that fall into place

23:47

and without her son, it's truly undermine.

23:49

On the confidence is the average patients as

23:52

in the democratic process they'll say. Well

23:54

why should I vote because of lot

23:56

of foreigners that I choose for me

23:58

anyway and will we have seen? You

24:00

know think fans just this downward spiral

24:03

you know from. You know the

24:05

place to remove the Un peacekeeping mission

24:07

When everybody knew that. The Haitian believe

24:09

was not yet as capable of doing

24:11

the security because they had invested in

24:13

that and in Elite hadn't done the

24:16

work and we needed to do in

24:18

order to answer to give them the

24:20

tools that they needed to ignoring Arm

24:22

in the Elder Rise or of these

24:24

armed groups. I remember having conversations. Wait

24:26

what people insane? Lucky now we're looking

24:28

at this to cease to be connected

24:30

to the elections. Every time they talk about elections

24:33

we start to see. A price and violence and

24:35

a kept hitting No no no no this

24:37

is about territorial wars is about terrorists were

24:39

awards and the I've always said that were

24:41

always sort of a daily and a Dallas

24:43

or any their. Time said he gets treated like

24:45

a five year old and he should be treated

24:47

like you know, full grown adult. In their times

24:49

he gets treated like a full grown adult when

24:51

it should be treated like a five year old.

24:53

On the so it seems to be very short

24:55

it a We land in the current crisis that

24:57

were insincere three years ago. And

25:01

you are listening to Foreign Policy

25:04

Live. Remember, you can watch these

25:06

conversations live and on video on

25:08

our website Foreign policy.com Subscribers get

25:10

to send us questions in advance

25:12

in addition to a range of

25:15

other things including our magazine Sign

25:17

up, Use the code S P

25:19

Live for a discount. That is

25:21

Fp Live A One word. Hey,

25:31

it's Cameron Hostess at peace with

25:34

we Economics Podcast Ones and twos:

25:36

Are you intrigued by how technology

25:38

like artificial intelligence and cloud computing

25:41

are affecting geopolitics? Do care about

25:43

how governments are using these tools?

25:45

If so, then I've got the

25:47

podcast for you. Microsoft Public Sector

25:50

Future podcast features great guess like

25:52

Sammy Corey, head of the Canadian

25:54

Government Center for Cyber Security and

25:56

Go found I'm I'm a diva

25:59

of the. Three Of Digital

26:01

Transformation of Ukraine. Each episode explores

26:03

the lessons of Digital Transformation and

26:05

leaders all around the world. Head

26:08

over to Ak A that M

26:10

S Flash Public Sector Future to

26:12

find all the episodes or just

26:15

search for public sector future Where

26:17

ever you get your buck. Take

26:23

you know in your book which Fp

26:25

reviewed and I urge everyone to read

26:27

the review and your book Of course

26:29

of. Art of the

26:32

case you make is that

26:34

a lot of the aren't

26:36

actors, aid organizations and contractors

26:38

of aid organizations. There wasn't

26:40

enough accountability for the actions

26:42

that they undertook. I'm curious

26:44

whether that the Haitian people

26:46

know that and understand that.

26:49

And. Whether they would trust any

26:51

foreign external involvement in the

26:54

coming months and years where

26:56

that to happen? Heidegger.

26:58

The I use lack of trust me that asserting

27:00

that hypocrisy to I mean you know we always

27:02

talk about corruption and eighty or lack of accountability

27:05

and eighty And and those things are real. But.

27:07

Of course, developed countries suffer from the exact

27:10

same problems we don't. Odds are a contractors

27:12

accountable for you? I never held itself accountable

27:14

for introducing Cholera to Haiti. right? I'm in.

27:17

These are huge things that that have been

27:19

asked. Community has failed, said to lead by

27:21

example of a than any and demanded changes

27:23

from Haiti. I think we

27:26

also they'll have to understand that these people

27:28

are in an extraordinarily difficult situation That is

27:30

because of the be a queue crisis on

27:32

the ground, but because of the options that

27:35

are in front of them. Are you have

27:37

armed gangs gangs that they certainly do not

27:39

trust Widely You have international community that is

27:41

not trusted widely. You have a political and

27:44

economic elite who was not trust and they'll

27:46

amongst those actors again and. None.

27:48

Of them are your ideal choice for

27:50

hips and. I. Think it's the question

27:52

becomes right. Which one is actually going to

27:54

act and do something for me? Which one

27:56

could do that? I didn't get an ideal

27:59

world. The wanna see they simply

28:01

strength and they want to see their own

28:03

government step up and change. do something. But.

28:06

These things are all interrelated of course because

28:08

they also have that perception that their government

28:10

is created by international actors. to right answer

28:12

these things are of you. shudder. The

28:15

reality that was what that leaves his is

28:17

a place where. There. It is

28:19

not a clear good option or an option

28:21

that is. Obvious to trust and

28:23

again I go back to this question it

28:25

it's what will actually happen and and what

28:28

can be done to build that trust. It's

28:30

not going to be given before something is

28:32

done. It is gonna have to be earned

28:34

and proven. Nothing. What

28:37

about the role of the police? Here

28:39

are the seen as a force that

28:41

can be trusted Jake Just mention that

28:44

they should be strengthened. Do agree with

28:46

that and how so. Are

28:48

you know we is there? A recent poll say

28:51

I keep thinking. About as in the

28:53

last that we're still me Father

28:55

poll he says basically. They

28:57

said that they don't believe that they are

28:59

fully can. Address this problem destroyed.

29:02

He. Ah, it's a

29:04

numbers game. You have a police

29:06

force. Ah, it's not even like

29:08

thousand on active duty throughout the

29:11

entire country. I just read a

29:13

report says that was three thousand

29:15

navy those who are involved. In.

29:17

A Security forces are on

29:19

it out. Or maybe

29:22

a couple of hundred. Ah you

29:24

know I know police officers personally

29:26

feel as if the in the

29:29

police station has their own homes

29:31

that been overtaken are burned by

29:33

games. They cease. To beat his attitude

29:35

said this is some sort of a human.

29:38

Superhuman group with you know when when

29:40

when when they're not they're at their

29:42

their individual several people and why they

29:45

do have positive or certainly this as

29:47

suffer from a lack of betty i'm

29:49

not for payment scheme is that on

29:51

time relations with somebody still be armed

29:54

groups because of for the lives of

29:56

what you kept seeing Is it? There

29:58

has been a com. Man in

30:00

the last couple elite funny they're the

30:02

only one standing between with you have

30:04

now in complete chaos and one wonders

30:06

you know how long they continue to

30:08

stand up. And he

30:10

retired high with the police and yeah I

30:12

think the police have been the go. What

30:15

the sort of last line of defense Obviously

30:17

I think there is also your I mention

30:19

the trust deficit with these other actors other

30:21

trust deficit with the police to I think

30:23

the majority of the population and eighty you

30:25

know their experience with the police. It's getting

30:27

tear gas in a protest by the police

30:29

as much as anything read they see police

30:31

officers working private security are doing. Now you

30:33

know specific things for the private sector actors.

30:36

We talk about something getting out of the

30:38

for now it's that's happening because the policing.

30:40

Getting paid by the private sector to remove and

30:42

I'll provide security for certain income. How the courts.

30:44

Armed groups are also getting paid for that. These

30:47

negotiations things are happening all the time and so

30:49

you to strengthen the to isn't nothing that can

30:51

happen in a vacuum. I did it as to

30:53

happen with other changes and like these other things

30:55

that it's about establishing trust and earning that trust.

30:58

And I were. We've seen the most

31:00

success I think with the Police Am

31:02

in recent months certainly has been where

31:04

they have deeper relationships with the communities

31:06

that they're defending. And you seen

31:08

communities working hand in hand with the police

31:10

and I'm actually trying to keep neighborhood safe

31:13

and and had some limited success in that

31:15

fashion. And so I think that does speak

31:17

to. Rebuilding. Their trust

31:19

in and what you can do to do so

31:21

to try and strengthen the police also. Believe.

31:24

That you settling earlier this morning and getting paid.

31:26

And so we're talking about. You. Know bringing

31:28

in foreign troops and things like this in

31:30

spending hundreds of millions of dollars but you

31:32

got police are putting their lives on the

31:34

line every single day whose families are under

31:36

threat, they're sleeping you know and in basically

31:38

a display person site and they have no

31:41

direct support and they see this this attention

31:43

elsewhere that also has an effect right and

31:45

so I think we do need to understand

31:47

as did these. broader than a mix of

31:49

play as well and sometimes I'll from cops

31:51

all the time or are they coming coming

31:54

to me. They want to sell a me.

31:56

They say they feel or are overwhelmed by

31:58

it but I think that. I'm hearing

32:00

date same problem and what I am something else will

32:02

say that's. The. Bottom line is useless

32:04

in power. Haitians to empower themselves.

32:07

And. I think that this is where the market

32:09

thing because it's such a citrus. Throughout

32:11

all of these different relationships

32:14

were happy. Insane damage. See

32:16

you have pulled over for people who don't

32:18

really believe you know that is in the

32:20

park. Them in democracy, the power, their votes

32:22

and and so the challenge. Is how

32:24

to human powered vigil for the

32:26

Browns Shoots a whole other accountable

32:28

regardless of whether it's police officer.

32:30

Is this new console and elected

32:32

leader to take back their lives?

32:35

So. I think that that is exactly the

32:37

prompt I wanted to take us towards

32:39

and Jake let me put that to

32:41

you and the time we have left

32:43

to look at possible solutions so answering

32:46

the question of how how if you

32:48

were to. Put. Power in

32:50

the hands of Haitians are had to

32:52

give them the ability to rebuild their

32:54

state. Where does that begin? To

32:58

can begin to dialogue rare and it sounds

33:00

sort of simplistic the same, but I think

33:02

it's the only other I we also need

33:05

to understand getting them in. For a year

33:07

and a half we've been talking about external

33:09

security intervention and sort of imminent aura. You

33:11

know, the only solution any security crisis. and

33:14

I think regardless of what we think about,

33:16

that it's not happening tomorrow and week. We

33:18

can't just sit around and wait for that.

33:20

Asian actors can't sit around and wait for

33:23

that, right? Is it. It needs

33:25

to be about what can be happening now

33:27

and I think that process needs to start

33:29

with the dialogue. And it's not just the

33:31

dialogue among seven people with caricom to form

33:34

this council. The dialogue across the country, right?

33:36

This is not just Port au Prince that

33:38

is a big country with interests all over

33:41

the provinces and big things happening and and

33:43

how can you bridge views. Longstanding gap said

33:45

this gap between urban and rural between Patch

33:47

on Veil and an upper Port au Prince

33:50

and and know sort of popular neighborhoods downtown

33:52

right at the dirt. Huge divisions here and.

33:54

The effort to overcome them has to be

33:57

the dialogue for me. And you know I

33:59

think there's a. Lot of pushback on this

34:01

two and a certain extent zang at, you

34:03

know, We. Can't that gives you

34:05

know armed groups a seat at the table? And

34:07

I'm not suggesting that that be you know exactly

34:10

what happens or giving amnesty or things like this.

34:12

But I do think we need to be honest

34:14

about. That. This is not

34:16

mean that can be attacked only with force,

34:18

the desert or a bigger issue about a broken

34:20

social contract about a state that is left

34:22

big parts of the country behind. And

34:25

if we're trying to bridge the gaps,

34:27

were trying to get at the root

34:29

causes of of what generates as instability

34:31

and power in Asian people to actually

34:33

take charge of their state at they

34:35

need actually be a part of that

34:37

the scotch and some meaningful way. So

34:39

little that I'm actually have to say

34:41

though I'm not, I'm I get that

34:43

and exactly Maybe I put this to

34:45

you. I I get what Jake is

34:47

saying that are there many steps before

34:49

you can get to that stage mean

34:51

with gangs running amok across Port Au

34:53

Prince, what kind is international intervention. Is

34:55

needed and. How would such

34:58

an intervention be legitimize? Are seen

35:00

as legitimate by his son? people?

35:02

I think the first think that a security

35:05

and me the application. Why? Statement

35:07

Security in one of the of will you

35:09

ask that question the beginning they want to

35:11

people with up in the morning you know

35:13

as and that panic you know I when

35:15

i remember last your com as this is

35:17

a school. And that when outstanding

35:20

the school I'm watching the kids and

35:22

I realized that these it hits it

35:24

be at any classroom in America orange

35:26

be around the world and that c

35:28

three hundred thousand that I've seen so

35:30

much a see you know you eat

35:32

develop. Sort. Of the in irons

35:34

you know heart here but I literally thirty

35:36

cry because in that moment I started thinking

35:39

about what it said every morning for those

35:41

kids to public school, what it takes in

35:43

the afternoon and the fact that while they

35:46

are they or their parents cannot depend on

35:48

them being safe and it's still in panic

35:50

because fools are no longer off limits in

35:52

schools are also been and so I think

35:55

that while we need to figure out of

35:57

it's journey back but I also see this

35:59

as longer might be the division on that

36:02

exists. I think it's a vicious are so

36:04

deep because the fact they go back centuries

36:06

and I my my argument to switch eight

36:08

we. Think the institutions we need to

36:11

start to build institutions in this country

36:13

because we sat down and when you

36:15

start to put institutions. In place and

36:17

you really provides them with the supports

36:19

than they can start to do the

36:21

work on the grass whose work is

36:24

nice various communities and figure out how

36:26

in this country of media realities leave

36:28

the find a way that we can

36:30

continue to move forward together. He even

36:32

if we don't have real we still

36:34

have our division. but I feel that

36:36

trying to get past the divisions it's

36:38

not going to get. Us to where

36:40

we need to get right away. Wheatley the

36:42

need feel a security and institution bill. Taken.

36:46

You've been critical and of the

36:48

way in which passed international interventions

36:50

have affected eighty if they were

36:52

any international interventions. A tall. What

36:55

was that? What would that look like?

36:58

Well. Look at me, I think you're thinking

37:00

the same principle that we've been talking about this

37:02

whole conversation which is an empowering Asians due to

37:04

actually I believe and in without about his political

37:06

accord and so the put a record right we

37:09

we. We've seen the taxed at right because for

37:11

the creation of a National Security Council that will

37:13

define the support that comes from from the international

37:15

community, the companies to be able to exert it's

37:17

independence from the actors that helped form it and

37:20

set the agenda for what kind of support it

37:22

needs. I don't know what the answer to that

37:24

is right, that they're going to convene extra. They're

37:26

going to come up with a plan for. The

37:28

much minicamp said that agenda beforehand and then

37:30

force it upon them. They need to allow

37:33

them to set that agenda and and asked

37:35

for the help and is necessary and then

37:37

over see that help. And. Make sure

37:39

it actually build something sustainable and with album understand

37:41

the news. The leaving I mean I think. The.

37:43

Problem is not for me and up And

37:46

the news the left with and the news

37:48

that was never a solution. Minister was a

37:50

cover because it allowed the political and economic

37:52

elite to not make the changes that were

37:54

necessary to actually resolve the roots of instability.

37:56

And eighty so long as there was a

37:58

foreign force their they could continue with. That,

38:00

as usual, and I think that's definitely

38:02

a concern to do this if we

38:04

just import security and provide that facade

38:06

of security. What happens when they leave?

38:09

And a I can tell you it in Washington

38:11

and you basically an open secret. this kenya

38:13

my sets read nine months or this is not

38:15

for the planet is not the angle and

38:17

it's into the opening. it is the planet. Another

38:19

long term security measured in Haiti is that

38:21

a real long term solution for Haiti or not.

38:24

There's some people have been consulted about that that's

38:26

not part of this discussion right now. It's happening

38:28

behind closed doors here in Washington. I think you

38:30

know that it is a pet asian of of

38:32

the roots of so much of this crisis. And

38:35

I just want to point out

38:37

for on people who aren't familiar

38:39

the new says the United Nations

38:41

Stabilization Mission in Haiti as active

38:43

from my two thousand and four

38:45

two or twenty seventeen I want

38:47

to take some a subscriber questions

38:49

or something. I'm going put the

38:51

first on to you or this

38:54

is from James Harburg and his

38:56

question is but Haitians who are

38:58

trying to sleep what options are

39:00

available to them Given that neighboring

39:02

Dominican Republic is not align migrants

39:04

and and the By. The administration

39:06

has maintained sally restrictive policies as

39:08

well. Are there really isn't

39:10

a lot of options in the reason. I believe that we

39:12

haven't seen and sort of up. On

39:14

migration crisis has against and ch

39:16

control the routes outside of of

39:19

of quarter friends but the by

39:21

the administration has made it very

39:23

clear that patients it takes you

39:25

to see well. Be rich are facts

39:27

as a d Despite the current situation and

39:29

that people should not try to, Ill try

39:31

to leave so we see Eat and wait

39:34

say since you are green card holders. Any

39:36

that say that they were not allowed to

39:38

go through the Dominican Republic to try to

39:40

get out and when the Us government. Was

39:43

pulling people out. It was only

39:45

for Us citizens, not even for

39:47

illegitimate green card holders. Was I still

39:49

haven't been able to teach her The answer? Fit and

39:52

you take pills. Jake

39:54

the Dominican Republic serve former

39:56

Special Envoy to the Un

39:58

Security Council. Her. I

40:00

was a singer has written in

40:02

with a question and he's arguing

40:04

that most patients actually wanted purely

40:06

presidential system. Many points to the

40:08

need for a constitutional process. for

40:10

such a change. The ways that

40:12

low turnout and elections would lead

40:14

to weaker government's what's your take.

40:17

Buying. Low turnout election certainly Atlanta weaker governance

40:19

sitting at a big part of of what got

40:21

us here. I'm a goner it and go back

40:24

to attacking are saying earlier whether it's a seven

40:26

member counselor, a member of the judge, they're gonna

40:28

be people who question the constitutional authority as because.

40:31

Let's be honest about this. Things have

40:33

been outside of constitutional norms were very

40:35

long time and so again I you

40:37

know it. For me it's it's what

40:39

can actually be done to restore trust

40:41

And I think yeah this is why

40:43

just a rush to elections was never

40:45

an option and and remains not a

40:47

good option today. It's beacons. You can't

40:50

just repeat the same cycle you can't

40:52

Just all the legend of nobody has

40:54

trust in them and so feel process

40:56

of organizing elections is not just getting

40:58

the security in place to be able

41:00

to have elections, it's creating. Trust in the

41:02

electoral system is giving voters a reason to

41:04

actually care about who represents them at the

41:06

government a level because the reality is anywhere

41:08

you know. We talk a lot about power

41:11

vacuums right now and a lot of as

41:13

a bomb in place but for most people

41:15

in Haiti. The. Government is not

41:17

present in their lives, hasn't been present

41:19

in their lives and so that dynamic

41:21

has been amputated. People. Are. Gonna care

41:24

about. Both. Chuckling,

41:27

You've been covering Haiti for some the

41:30

years and many of our viewers will

41:32

know that you were to the surprise

41:34

find the sphere coverage of the Twenty

41:36

Ten earthquake and in many ways that

41:39

was the year that has a lot

41:41

of Americans at least got to learn

41:43

a little bit about Haiti. But then

41:45

as we were discussing earlier and eighty

41:48

has receded from the headlines as the

41:50

level of attention to this particular crisis

41:52

and Twenty Twenty Four does it feel

41:54

different. A

41:57

class and he is still now. It was. Is plenty. When

42:00

you can I mean people over a

42:02

people were moved. Ah my. Only saw

42:04

so many implications for me in a

42:06

young Asian American. Soon you know hundred

42:09

in speak the language ever been eighty

42:11

five see a video When it to

42:13

to think one of the different narratives

42:15

and and they embrace Haiti in a

42:17

different kind away. but it'll be five.

42:20

The Reaction International community the fucking old

42:22

say be created. This is not Hrc.

42:24

You know what a Haiti commissioned as

42:26

as the armchair. By President Bill Clinton I

42:28

remember as a friend be very frustrating when

42:30

he realized. Said despite all the hi,

42:33

there was no money there. for grassroots organization.

42:35

There was no money. They're. Going to a

42:37

heated governments. You know the Usa, these

42:39

are the world was still hold on

42:41

the to their money and so that

42:43

really left the very bitter. It's a

42:45

sin in in in in the mouth

42:47

of a lot of people and the

42:49

majority of people and you know billions

42:51

for promises and in it never came

42:53

in. The government didn't didn't seal it

42:56

either by his needed help people and

42:58

I think with today on it's a

43:00

we're not even see that level of

43:02

response from humanitarian actors again. Six hundred

43:04

seventy four million dollars of the one

43:06

thing we need. To get medicine sega

43:08

water to get basic sanitation be. Cholera

43:10

his back and so far the only raised

43:12

forty five million dollars and sad as the

43:15

question in an inner city is beyond me

43:17

to fatigue is that he succeeded by why

43:19

are people opening up their checkbooks to say

43:21

me want to save a life and patience

43:24

is a field as their lives don't matter.

43:27

To. Com. A.

43:29

Lot of Us policymakers was this

43:31

program. If you could speak

43:33

directly to them, what do you think Washington

43:36

should do? I think the

43:38

first thing for was news to start

43:40

turning a the into political football and

43:42

we've seen this time and time again

43:44

where it becomes an issue of of

43:46

political expediency or political rhetoric here in

43:48

Washington as an increasing their right now

43:50

you have Republicans criticizing democrats, overstocking migration

43:52

from any democrats responding by blaming Republicans

43:54

for holding up funding to prevent that

43:57

of preventing them. I'm stabilizing hated little

43:59

not about Haiti right? That's not about

44:01

what Haiti needs are the best way

44:03

for the Us interact with eighty rights.

44:05

I think we need to get out

44:07

of of that political realm and that's

44:09

difficult than election year in the Us

44:11

but says gonna something we've seen time

44:13

and time again in history as. Electoral

44:16

politics in the Us affecting Us policy to

44:18

Haiti and not for the right reasons for

44:20

me to focus on on that like what

44:22

the actual issues are here and how best

44:24

to support them. and I think the other

44:27

thing for from a Us perspective the I

44:29

make this this point and and been some

44:31

detail in the book is that you don't

44:33

I think. Certainly. Can the U

44:35

S B sector we we have this vision of

44:37

Haiti or this this failed state that can't the

44:39

didn't have the past the and I can't do

44:41

things on it's own and that Haiti needs to

44:43

change for our efforts to help it to work

44:45

better. And I think that said slip said on

44:47

it's head right if we need to be flipped

44:50

totally around, we've designed a system and in terms

44:52

of foreign assistance that that is just not terribly

44:54

effective. It doesn't work that well for the people

44:56

on the ground and it works ok. for some

44:58

interest here. As. A week and make changes

45:00

to us policy weekend Reform The way we interact

45:02

with the world so that the way that we

45:04

provide that support can actually be more effective than

45:07

so. Instead of turning this on Haiti and saying

45:09

hey, you need to change, You need to fix

45:11

your actors are getting together. We need to get

45:13

arrested a friend. We need to fix the way

45:16

we do business and make sure that that our

45:18

policies can actually be effective. Bellamy

45:20

follow but you know disappointing to with

45:23

that in this current crisis with the

45:25

game you know diplomats can I get

45:27

out say that they're not going out

45:29

and meeting people and so even in

45:32

terms of easy to see also the

45:34

way to we haven't minister Abe It

45:36

does not sit the current reality and

45:38

so we have this idea that you

45:40

know he can. Organizations are not to

45:43

be trusted or cannot it minister A

45:45

but they are the organizations that are.

45:47

They are in the ground especially outside

45:49

of outside. Of what of friends So if

45:52

you wanna continue to sort of build this

45:54

relationship and and and make sure that people

45:56

know that you're they are you T s

45:58

you do for have to change the way

46:00

that you do with because given the sheer

46:02

reality of the country to your think that

46:04

you're dealing with otherwise pathetic missing the mark

46:06

the were to be getting these comments about

46:08

the hum it's millions of thousand and eight

46:10

and then when she can I do the

46:12

research without find that most of it basically

46:14

was returned back to Washington Beltway. And

46:18

that was Jacqueline Charles of the

46:20

Miami Herald and Jake Johnson, the

46:22

author of a State Elite panic,

46:24

disaster, Capitalism and the Bustle to

46:26

Control Haiti. As always, if you

46:28

want to know who's coming up

46:31

in future episodes of Fp Live,

46:33

had to Foreign policy.com as P.

46:35

Spring Magazine just dropped this week

46:37

and it is all about India,

46:39

the elections they're just saw and

46:41

will go on through early June.

46:43

I've written the leader saying, ah,

46:45

Spring issue. And so I'm gonna

46:47

take your questions on the elections

46:50

on the range from oh the

46:52

new that these foreign policy and

46:54

what the country's rise means for

46:56

the world are they had to

46:58

our website to send them questions

47:00

we would love to hear as

47:02

P Live. The podcast is produced

47:04

by Rosie to than executive producer

47:06

of of P Live is Donna

47:08

sure I'm ravi agree Was a

47:11

Phoenix. Hi.

47:20

I'm Emily Smiles professor of

47:22

Law at Northwestern University. I'm

47:25

also an anthropologist and a host

47:27

of a new podcast every Day

47:29

Ambassador where we give you the

47:31

small tools that make big change.

47:35

The. Idea for the So has been a long

47:37

time in the making. I actually

47:39

remember the exact day I started thinking

47:42

about it. It. Was March Eleven

47:44

Two thousand and eleven. I was

47:46

in Japan conducting research on the

47:48

financial markets of Tokyo. All.

47:50

Of a sudden I heard a loud

47:52

rumbling sound and room third set. Everything

47:56

came crashing off the south. I

48:00

would have a window and I could see

48:02

the papers playing Know. Much of that they look

48:04

like the with. And

48:09

then the fire inside going on and

48:11

tsunami was on the way. These

48:16

were the harbingers of one of

48:18

Japan's worst ever. Disaster. The

48:21

meltdown. But the Fukushima Nuclear

48:23

Power Plant. The Japanese government

48:25

nasa's two reactors are in partial

48:27

meltdown. As for more are at

48:29

risk. The Meltdown completely turn Japan

48:32

on it's head. I. Don't

48:35

office workers covered in dust? What he

48:37

does. Every street to get from the

48:39

city to their home to the suburbs.

48:42

Electricity without internet, cell

48:44

phone. Supplies.

48:46

Flew off the shelves. The stores. Geiger

48:49

Counters became an into band i them

48:51

which is never a good bang. Living.

48:55

To a crisis of this magnitude was an inflection

48:57

point for me. To. Prevent the

48:59

next to the She Met or any

49:02

of the other crises we face today

49:04

will have to work much more effectively

49:06

across silence of expertise and national boundaries

49:09

and will need to harness the wisdom

49:11

of everyone from local fishers to nuclear

49:13

physicists. On. How the World really

49:16

works. And. What happens when

49:18

things go awry? Using

49:20

this approach, I've gone on

49:22

to spur countless innovations in

49:24

global policy. And that's what

49:27

is Parking is all. Be. Every

49:35

day Ambassador peel back the

49:37

curtain, high stakes leadership and

49:39

give everyone backstage access to

49:41

the most powerful methods of

49:43

diplomacy. In each episode will

49:45

break things down into deceptively

49:47

simple move that everyone can

49:50

make to help build a

49:52

more peaceful and sustainable. Well

49:54

like getting a guest he want to make

49:56

it taste for you want to make a

49:58

thoughtful he thought about. The other individual you

50:01

thought about what their likes and dislikes are.

50:03

Creating a fixer taking on a

50:05

fictional scenario and a roll outside

50:08

of the one that you occupying

50:10

your day to day life allows

50:12

you to think through what you

50:14

would like to have done differently

50:17

or to take him at times.

50:19

Have fun trying to see this

50:21

as more so building long term

50:24

relationships that are going to be

50:26

helpful. Ah, down the line when

50:28

negotiations are bit harder as all

50:31

negotiations are each week you'll. Here

50:33

surprising stories which revealed and move

50:35

you can make to change the

50:37

status quo to find ways to

50:39

connect and move things forward. Said:

50:41

join me and become an every

50:44

day ambassador. Come into this spring

50:46

on apple codified or whether you

50:48

actually.