0:00

The following content is not suitable for children.

0:02

Stage two, let's

0:04

talk about how couples that

0:07

are not together is actually finally

0:09

get there and feel bonded. Yeah.

0:12

Fireworks, let's go.

0:16

Welcome to fourth play radio, couples

0:19

in sex therapy. I'm Laurie Watson,

0:21

your sex therapist. And I'm George

0:23

Fallon, your couples therapist. And we

0:25

are passionate about talking about sex

0:27

and helping you develop a way to

0:29

talk to each other.

0:30

Our mission is to help

0:32

our audience develop a healthier relationship

0:35

to sex. that integrates the

0:37

mind, the heart, and the body.

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Here

1:35

we go, Laurie. Stage

1:38

two for our listeners that

1:40

really we're talking about EFT.

1:42

That's the beauty of the creation of

1:44

a positive cycle. It's

1:46

not enough to understand the negative cycle,

1:49

what's not working, you need to replace

1:51

that with a positive cycle. Yes.

1:52

you

1:53

know. So I always remind myself

1:56

that

1:56

the unmet needs that

1:59

really caused the negative

1:59

cycle. Right? If I feel like I'm failing

2:02

or reject that are hurt and lonely.

2:04

And I can't ask for what I

2:06

need in those places. I'm gonna

2:09

protect myself. and then that protection

2:11

causes my partner's protection. And before

2:13

you know what the negative cycle has its life,

2:15

right? It has its distance and its trust that

2:17

it creates. It's actually

2:20

the unmet need net.

2:22

That's the solution

2:25

to the negative cycle.

2:27

Okay.

2:28

Okay. So that means that we get sex

2:30

all the time we want it. Right? That

2:32

means when we can ask for what we need,

2:35

and our partner can give it to us. Mhmm.

2:37

Right? It's that is

2:39

what creates secure attachments. So it's just

2:41

nice for every couple listening to have a

2:43

clear simple target. Both

2:45

of you have needs when those

2:47

needs are met, that's what creates

2:50

the safety in a positive cycle

2:52

of a couple. Mhmm.

2:53

So we're gonna talk about had

2:55

a couple's ask for

2:57

what they need in these kind

2:59

of more tender places. Howard Bauchner: Right.

3:01

We want them to be able to reach out

3:04

to their partner, talk about it,

3:06

and their partner to respond to them. That's

3:08

when it's a positive cycle.

3:11

Right?

3:11

And it's often difficult to do it

3:13

the first time. You need

3:15

what we call stage one is getting the couple

3:18

to deescalate. getting the couple

3:20

to see their negative cycle, to

3:22

start uniting against the negative cycle.

3:24

You've got to create more safety before

3:27

you go to this place of asking for what

3:29

you need. When you ask for what you need

3:31

and you're not safe, there's a lot of mistrust.

3:33

The negative cycle is really powerful. it

3:36

it leads to kind of more in

3:38

drops and misses and and

3:40

protection. So it's really important

3:42

to have that safety online. Yeah,

3:44

have to be through that

3:46

stage one where it

3:49

becomes safe to be vulnerable

3:50

again. Exactly.

3:53

it's a bit of a

3:55

conundrum because we're telling people be

3:57

vulnerable, be vulnerable, but we know

3:59

that what really encourages

4:02

vulnerability is when their

4:04

partner responds to it and

4:06

acknowledges it and finds

4:08

it precious and cares about the

4:10

fact that their partner is being vulnerable. And

4:12

I think when we're fighting and

4:15

and upset with each other. We can't

4:17

really take that in. We

4:19

can't see how important

4:21

it is that our partners being valuable. But

4:23

in stage two, we can.

4:25

We get it. We need to acknowledge

4:27

our partner's vulnerability.

4:28

We and we need to do something for

4:31

them once they ask for something.

4:34

by this time, couple should have had

4:36

some practice on keeping that focus.

4:38

Who's the person risk? And who's the person

4:40

sharing? How does the witness and

4:42

listen and partner? keep

4:44

their focus to respond to the other

4:46

person. So if we're talking

4:48

about the sexual cycle, in

4:50

stage one, what both partners

4:53

get how the sexual pursue

4:55

his criticism fuels

4:58

the withdrawers wanting to go away

5:00

because they're hearing the message. They're doing something

5:02

wrong, and they don't wanna get worse. So they disengaged.

5:04

Yes. The more they disengaged or protect themselves,

5:06

the more the pursuing feels rejected,

5:08

the more they use criticism to try to

5:11

motivate change. criticism

5:13

fuels withdrawal, which moral

5:15

fuels criticism.

5:16

Couples, when they get that, that's helpful.

5:19

Right? You feel more hopeful.

5:20

Yes. But say it the other way too because,

5:23

you know, it's not always this sexual

5:25

pursueer that starts the cycle. Oftentimes,

5:28

the sexual withdrawal says, you know,

5:30

gosh, it's been ten days. I didn't

5:32

even notice. I I didn't even think

5:34

about it, which, of course, makes

5:36

the sexual pursuing heart plummet.

5:38

Like, you you haven't kept in your

5:40

mind my needs,

5:41

you know. And I

5:43

tell you all the time and for you

5:46

time just goes by and you don't think about it.

5:48

So, I mean, I think it can start

5:50

either way. The sexual withdrawal doing nothing

5:52

-- Yeah. -- or the sexual pursuing criticizing.

5:56

Independency

5:56

could go either way.

5:58

Both partners need to get that. Both partners

6:00

need to see to change it. Both of

6:02

them need to do something We're always

6:04

working towards new moves. Yeah. I don't

6:06

understand what's not working, but what's the new

6:08

move. Stage two is the new move.

6:10

So today, we're gonna try to talk about

6:13

this withdrawal, this

6:15

sexual withdrawal, instead of

6:17

rolling over and not

6:19

wanting to make things worse,

6:21

Right? They need to start engaging. They

6:23

need to start coming towards their partner.

6:26

And usually it starts with explaining

6:28

the block what's stopping them

6:30

from wanting to engage. There's

6:32

nothing like bad sex to train you not

6:34

to wanna have sex. guilt

6:37

pressure, stress all the things.

6:39

They're getting messages. There's something wrong with them

6:41

and they're not doing it. Right? Like, they really need

6:43

to process that. to

6:45

get help with that if they're gonna actually

6:47

wanna have sex. Mhmm. I think

6:49

yes. And I think one of them

6:51

is

6:52

processing the criticism both

6:55

from

6:55

their partner, processing

6:57

the criticism inside. Mhmm.

6:59

You know, I'm I'm broken. There's something

7:01

wrong with me. I think this

7:03

other part of stage two where

7:05

we identify

7:06

disown needs.

7:08

Mhmm. I think for many people, especially

7:10

in childhoods that were not very affectionate,

7:13

parents who were not warm and loving,

7:16

there is still a need in the child for affection

7:18

and touch lots of

7:20

need. Mhmm. But they put

7:22

a block up against that because it's so

7:24

painful that that need wasn't met. And

7:27

then in adulthood, they still

7:29

have the need, but it's kind of

7:31

somewhere else, you know, it's split off from them.

7:33

They don't feel it. They don't let themselves

7:35

feel that need. for

7:37

touch, for soothing, for intimacy.

7:39

And

7:39

then, of course, in adulthood, there's

7:41

this other step where that

7:44

touch is erotic and they

7:46

haven't been able to identify it. They can't

7:48

they can't feel like they really need

7:50

this. And so

7:51

doing some work on the inside of

7:53

figuring out, okay, this is something that

7:55

is buried, you know, deep

7:58

down in me. I think that's important. Is

8:00

that not what stage two does? also

8:02

when the person is identifying their disown

8:04

need?

8:05

Yeah.

8:06

So

8:07

to me, though, the target is going

8:09

to be. to have sex

8:11

for yourself because you want it,

8:14

and to have sex for your partner because your

8:16

partner wants it. Right? Both of those are

8:18

really healthy ways of having sex.

8:20

and for a lot of withdrawers, sex

8:22

because of the negative cycle becomes something

8:25

they want to do for that partner. They

8:27

want to perform and they lose

8:29

access to the part of the network wants it

8:31

for themselves. Mhmm. So that's a critical

8:33

part of which are reengagement, trying

8:35

to get them to get re in touch with

8:38

Why do you wanna have sex? What do you

8:40

like about it? What is it? What's your

8:42

gas pedals? Right? It's just not just

8:44

about work with brakes and blocks and yeah.

8:46

That's important. but really trying to get

8:48

them to a place of no

8:49

spending more time with what

8:52

really makes them come alive.

8:54

Mhmm. Because that is where the needs

8:56

are. Right? I need you

8:58

to

8:59

what what what do you think withdrawers would

9:01

need,

9:02

Lori? from their

9:04

partner. I think I think they

9:06

need them to, first of

9:08

all, be

9:08

patient. Mhmm. I

9:10

love your patience. Right? Because that's so

9:12

often where we start with with yours.

9:14

Like, they wanna be appreciated

9:16

for their effort. This is not easy

9:18

stuff that they're doing. Right? So that

9:20

they're facing it, that they're letting that

9:22

partner in, that they're letting themselves in.

9:24

I think that appreciation that's

9:26

trying to lean lead towards

9:29

understanding. That's so often

9:31

a start of what which ethics are looking

9:33

for. Yes. I I think,

9:35

too, I wanna Note

9:37

that for the male sexual withdrawr,

9:39

sometimes they have desire,

9:42

but they don't

9:43

maybe have enough either

9:46

desire for their partner or it's it's

9:48

not even that

9:49

they don't have partner specific desire.

9:51

It's like sharing

9:53

sex feels to

9:56

intimate. It it

9:57

feels it doesn't feel as good. They've

9:59

used to

9:59

They're used

10:00

to masturbating. They're used to using

10:03

porn. They're used to managing

10:05

their sex drive by themselves.

10:08

So

10:08

like starting to be

10:09

dependent on a partner telling

10:12

their partner what they want and what they like and

10:14

what they need, you know, that

10:16

that's crazy stuff for them.

10:18

So I think the first one you

10:20

described was the female sexual withdrawer

10:22

wanting it for herself. I think

10:24

often in my experience the male

10:26

withdrawer does want it for

10:28

themselves, but

10:29

they don't know how to make it intimate

10:31

with a partner.

10:33

Right.

10:34

So what

10:35

both of them sharing common

10:37

is

10:37

that there's less pressure

10:41

in not engaging. Right?

10:43

Which feeds the cycle. And to

10:45

get them to wanna have sex for

10:47

themselves, to wanna be intimate with

10:49

their partner is really trying to get

10:51

them to tap into their belongings. So

10:53

much of this work

10:55

prior is focused on fears and hurts

10:58

and blocks. Once you make some

11:00

progress with that, it creates a

11:02

safety to go to the longings. Right?

11:04

What does your heart want?

11:06

It's the wants that the

11:08

key to the positive cycle. Do

11:10

you want acceptance? Do you want

11:12

appreciation? Do you want reassurance? Do

11:14

you want a hug? Do you want to be

11:16

told it's gonna be okay? Do you want to

11:19

be found? Do you want to be believed? Do

11:21

you want to be fought for? Do you wanna be

11:23

loved? Like, you see how all these

11:25

wants starts to kind of

11:27

pull, you know, the partner's

11:29

engagement. That's the power of a positive

11:31

cycle.

11:32

Yeah. I love that list that you just

11:35

gave us, of

11:36

all the wants that withdraws might

11:38

ask for too. you

11:40

know,

11:40

right? So let's put ourselves in that

11:43

place where, you know, typically in

11:45

a negative cycle, you're getting

11:47

messages you don't have enough

11:49

desire. You're doing it wrong.

11:51

You're not interested. You're in

11:53

trouble. You know, what does

11:55

your heart need? And that's why it so

11:57

important to go to the body. Where do you

11:59

feel that

11:59

failure? Where do you feel that

12:02

pressure?

12:02

If you listen to your body, it will start

12:05

to tell you what do you need that

12:07

would help with that. Right?

12:08

That's why reassurance a lot of times

12:10

with the withdraws is is

12:12

is important to be

12:15

told It's

12:15

okay, like, that you're not

12:17

in a mood. That doesn't mean you're bad at this

12:19

something wrong with you. You know, you might not

12:21

have as much desire. But when

12:23

when you're told it's okay, it

12:25

it creates a calmness that says, but

12:27

I wanna work on this. I wanna, you

12:30

know, I wanna find a time where I can,

12:32

and maybe tomorrow's a bed at night.

12:34

Right? So that that reassurance goes

12:36

a long way with the withdrawal. Mhmm.

12:38

Right? So when the withdrawer

12:41

has their

12:41

partner being patient, they

12:44

can, in some ways, there's space

12:46

for them to check-in with their body.

12:48

to say, okay, what I am

12:51

tired tonight. I do

12:53

want to explore my

12:55

longings, you know, my

12:57

sexuality. but I gotta have

12:59

rest. I gotta do that. Mhmm. And

13:01

I know every pursueer out there is

13:03

saying, hey, I do that all the time. I give them

13:05

space. I I give them lots of

13:07

space, but I think we're talking

13:09

about a stage in the relationship where

13:12

there

13:13

both parties feel a little more

13:16

confident about

13:16

their partner wanting to meet their

13:19

needs.

13:19

Exactly. and withdrawers

13:22

at this point would already have

13:24

had to appreciate

13:25

the pursueers initiating.

13:28

Right? To really thank the pursue playing

13:30

that role in a relationship to see

13:32

the beauty in that pushing energy.

13:34

Right? The more the matures sees

13:37

that and says thank you. Thank you for doing

13:39

this for all these years for us. try to keep

13:41

this alive. That was so important.

13:43

Right? That appreciation from

13:45

the insurer often allows to pursue

13:47

to give it back. great, that appreciation,

13:50

that reassurance to the withdrawal. Yeah.

13:52

The

13:52

reassurance that we're going to be patient

13:54

with the

13:55

blocks. as they work them through. I

13:57

think that's so true. And this is

13:59

what is complicated when we're working

14:02

as therapists in stage two

14:04

with sexual withdraws, because you just

14:06

talked about that the

14:08

reengagement of the withdrawal includes

14:11

emotional reengagement

14:11

with their sexual pursueers

14:15

telling them, you know, thank you

14:17

that I get that. Well, let's pick

14:19

that up. and just let's play

14:21

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17:39

So

17:41

stage two again. the complications

17:44

for this with the sexual withdrawal,

17:47

is the sexual

17:48

withdrawal does need to emotionally re

17:50

engage with their sexual pursuing

17:53

appreciating, thanking them, seeing

17:55

the benefit of

17:57

this drive, this

17:59

force

17:59

for sexuality, in their sexual

18:01

pursueer is actually a good

18:04

thing, a

18:04

blessing to the relationship and

18:06

communicate that. Like, that offers

18:09

reassurance to the sexual pursuit. I'm

18:11

no longer resisting you. I'm getting

18:13

it that this has been this is an

18:15

important function our

18:17

relationship and you've been carrying it all by

18:19

yourself -- Mhmm. -- all alone.

18:21

I've resisted it. No wonder

18:22

you're so frustrated. So

18:24

that

18:24

really, ironically, is emotional

18:27

reengagement from the sexual

18:29

withdrawal. But then the sexual withdrawal,

18:31

this The second part that we're talking

18:33

about

18:33

has to include action,

18:35

which is identifying

18:37

their disown needs, figuring

18:39

out the aspects of themselves that

18:41

are hidden from themselves and hidden

18:43

from their partner. And that

18:45

will be the byproducts. of

18:47

their needs being met. They should engage more if

18:49

you don't have to go away because you're

18:51

feeling like a failure and you

18:54

feel safe, then you're gonna engage more.

18:56

So, yes, that we're gonna look for

18:58

that that change in action from

19:00

the mature. But to get that, the mature is

19:02

gonna have ask for what they need. So when they tap

19:04

into this place where they feel like

19:06

they're failing, we're always

19:07

working towards You

19:10

have to have success with these emotions. Mhmm.

19:12

When which yours have success, they don't need

19:14

to go away. They could come forward. Mhmm. Right?

19:17

So success could look two

19:19

different forms. To me, success is

19:23

get

19:23

reassurance with the fears,

19:26

or when you overcome your fears and you do a good job,

19:28

have positive success when your partner says,

19:30

you know what you initiate, that was amazing.

19:33

that that is meeting that need to be told at doing

19:35

it right, which is really important. Mhmm.

19:37

But in these places where they feel

19:39

like, you

19:40

know, Is

19:41

there something wrong with me? Because I

19:44

can't access

19:45

my desire. The need

19:47

in that is often what. the

19:49

need

19:49

is for the partner to say, to be

19:52

reassuring. Mhmm. I don't know if it's

19:54

broken. I but I'm here with

19:56

you. You know, I mean, I I

19:58

appreciate you

19:58

struggling to

19:59

access your desire. You know,

20:02

I I mean basically teaming

20:05

up together

20:06

Beautiful. Let's role

20:07

play it. Oh, okay. You'd

20:10

be the sexual withdrawer at this time. Alright.

20:12

Sexual withdrawer. Here I come.

20:15

So I I

20:17

my new movies, I'm engaging.

20:19

I'm I'm gonna let you into

20:22

my fears.

20:23

Right? And we try to put

20:25

words to what I need in that

20:27

place because

20:28

that's that's that really is the

20:31

ultimate move for the withdrawal. Not an not

20:33

it's not enough to just share the

20:35

fears, but to try to ask for what they need

20:37

in the fears. So

20:39

I know

20:42

last night you wanted to have the intimate.

20:45

Yep.

20:45

And

20:48

you

20:48

know, I wanted to be sentiments, thinking about

20:51

it, leading up to it -- Mhmm. -- and

20:53

then I

20:55

don't know what happened. It's like the day got

20:57

I got caught up in the day. And by the time

20:59

I found myself, like, I wasn't

21:02

in a mood. I wasn't frustrated. I

21:04

was tired. I was like,

21:06

that's

21:06

not a great spot in a

21:09

past. I tried to force myself, and

21:11

that kind of makes

21:12

it a tough So

21:14

Wait.

21:15

Tell me a little bit more about it because

21:17

it there was part of you that wanted

21:20

it. And then

21:21

you said as we got closer, you

21:25

were tired and frustrated on

21:27

the inside. There was something that was

21:29

coming out for you that then you You didn't feel that

21:31

anymore. Could you tell me a little bit

21:33

more about it? Yeah. I

21:35

just wasn't

21:35

in the right space to wanna have

21:38

sex. Mhmm. Like, if it was in an ideal

21:40

situation and we were away somewhere,

21:42

like, I would've loved to have sex. Mhmm.

21:44

But today it interfered with what was

21:46

going on with me. So

21:48

when I found myself in that bed saying,

21:50

I know we we supposed to have sex

21:52

and I want but I really don't wanna have

21:54

sex in that moment. Mhmm. I'm

21:56

just, like, I just wanna go to bed. I just

21:58

wanna just start over tomorrow.

22:00

Mhmm. Right? And but when I I know

22:02

we're supposed to have sex, I can feel that

22:04

pressure. That, like, I'm now in trouble. if,

22:06

you know, if I don't wanna have sex, we're gonna get

22:08

into our negative cycle. But I gotta it

22:10

feels like I'm climbing a mountain to have sex

22:12

to try to get over all this fresh dration and,

22:14

like, not being in a mood and, like, it's it's I'm

22:17

wrestling with a lot of

22:19

that. Yeah.

22:20

I gosh. I'm

22:21

glad you're telling me.

22:23

I mean, it I

22:25

think that you telling me what's

22:27

happening inside feels

22:29

good. I mean, I

22:30

know I would have maybe felt better this

22:32

morning we had sex, but it

22:35

makes sense

22:35

to me, you know, why you turned

22:37

off? I wasn't quite as clear

22:40

last night. and that was

22:42

confusing. But as you tell me this morning

22:44

about how your day went and that it

22:46

got in the way and you know, you

22:48

wanted more sort of a clear head

22:50

about it. I didn't get

22:52

that. That happens to me too.

22:54

it's hard to trust that. No. I appreciate

22:57

it. I mean, I know you tell me, you don't wanna

22:59

have sex if I don't wanna have

23:01

sex. And I know when I have sex, when

23:03

I don't wanna have sex, it's not really gray us.

23:05

That's strange. me, but it's

23:07

so hard to to feel like I'm

23:09

gonna disappoint you. and I

23:11

I just try to kinda force myself to get into it

23:13

a lot of times I can. But I am starting

23:16

to learn that, like, I need

23:18

to learn to stand

23:20

up and say, it's okay if I don't

23:22

wanna have sex. Mhmm. It's

23:24

hard for me to think that's okay.

23:26

Yeah. And I

23:27

mean, there's been so many years, years

23:29

and years and years that I'll

23:31

get angry. So of course,

23:33

you're gonna be afraid to tell me you don't

23:36

wanna have sex. I that makes

23:38

sense to me. I really do get it. Our old

23:40

pattern, our negative cycle,

23:43

you know, yeah, it would be natural for

23:45

you to feel fearful. But

23:47

I think the fact that you're starting

23:49

to sort this out inside

23:52

and tell me it really

23:54

is kinda helpful to me. Yeah.

23:56

You know, because before, maybe I

23:59

would

23:59

ask you you

24:00

know, not come forward or nothing would

24:03

happen, and I didn't know

24:05

any of this. I didn't know that you

24:07

even thought about it much less you're

24:09

struggling with you know,

24:10

wanting to have it, but then,

24:12

you know, your head gets all messed up and

24:14

you can't. So

24:16

that feels different. I mean, yeah,

24:18

it'd be perfect if we'd had sex, but

24:20

it's I mean, it's good that you're talking

24:22

about it. Yeah. And

24:24

as we're talking about it, I guess, I'm getting

24:26

a little bit clear on

24:29

what would help me? Like, what do I need

24:31

in that place? I think it

24:33

would

24:33

be helpful. if

24:35

you could see moments like last night

24:38

that if I don't wanna

24:39

have sex, that that's actually a healthy

24:41

thing for me to say.

24:43

to not wanna have sex when I don't wanna

24:45

have sex, that you support that in

24:47

me, that that that is

24:49

not me being difficult

24:52

or disappointing. That's me being

24:54

healthy and being true to kinda where I'm

24:56

at. And I know it's gotta lead to

24:58

something afterwards But in that moment, I guess I I

25:00

need you to be able to tell me it's healthy

25:02

to not wanna have sex. You

25:03

know what? It's exactly what I need

25:06

from you. I do. I

25:08

can feel in me the dilemma

25:11

here, but you saying what you

25:13

want makes me more

25:14

certain that when you

25:16

do wanna have sex that you're all

25:18

in. And so, yes,

25:21

I mean, so many times I

25:23

think maybe you having sex just because

25:25

I want to and then I don't feel connected to

25:27

you. It's like it's

25:29

wrote and then there's not really a good

25:31

result and that's not good. And so

25:33

yeah, you you have to be able to

25:35

tell me I don't wanna do it.

25:37

Or what's

25:37

and even better

25:39

like this morning as you talk about why,

25:41

you know, what got in

25:44

your head, Alright.

25:45

Let's pause here. As we just

25:47

reflect on what we just did.

25:49

As a withdrawal, that felt good.

25:52

feel good that I was being given permission

25:54

to say no, that there's we're

25:56

seeing a health in it, not just the problem,

25:58

and it's always been addressed in our whole

25:59

relationship is a problem. Every time

26:02

I don't wanna have a sex, I'm

26:04

the problem. Mhmm. Right? For you

26:06

to kinda join me in a place that it's

26:08

okay. Sometimes life gets caught up. and

26:10

it's okay not to have sex. Like, that is really a healthy thing

26:12

to be able to communicate that. Like, that actually

26:15

feels really empowering for

26:17

me. That's a

26:17

way of a need being met inside

26:19

of me. Right? That's success in

26:21

a positive cycle. And we can have

26:23

I can have different needs. I could

26:26

want you to if

26:28

I do fail, let let

26:30

you down, can you love me

26:32

anyway? Mhmm. Can you tell me it's

26:34

gonna be okay?

26:36

my knee could be when I get it right. Can

26:39

you be proud of me? And let me know,

26:41

like, I just that was so good.

26:43

You love seen who I am sexually.

26:45

When I engage, my presence makes

26:47

such a difference. It, like, changes the

26:49

world. Right? I mean, these are all

26:51

different direct we can go. That's why it's

26:53

not a simple cookie cutter. Here's a

26:55

line that you could ask for what you need. Everything's

26:57

gonna be okay. We all our

26:59

needs change. But what it's in

27:01

common is there's

27:01

no space to ask for what you

27:04

need in a negative cycle. Mhmm.

27:05

Now that we've caught in that negative

27:08

cycle, this is the game

27:10

changer. Right. So when you started to tell me if it's

27:12

okay, it was healthy, I felt my

27:14

whole body start to relax.

27:17

Nice. We

27:17

know relaxation is the key to good

27:20

sex with.

27:20

Absolutely. That's good.

27:23

Yeah. I and I really felt it

27:25

when you said it that way. just even

27:27

in the role play. It was like, yes,

27:30

you have to be true to who you are

27:33

because if you're not, you're really not a sexual

27:35

partner with me, you know, because what I

27:37

want is

27:38

somebody who wants it for

27:41

themselves, is clear headed

27:43

and wants to be with me. Otherwise,

27:45

it doesn't really bear the

27:47

fruit

27:47

that I'm looking for. You

27:49

know,

27:49

so even though it meant I would

27:51

have to be patient, I have to wait

27:53

for a time that was

27:56

mutual. And

27:57

that that's

27:58

frustrating.

27:59

It

27:59

was like, you being

28:03

yourself and saying who you were and

28:05

what you needed was kind of

28:07

exciting. It's like Oh, yes. I

28:09

get it. I get the strength in

28:11

that and how it will be better for us.

28:13

That's what I was

28:13

feeling from the other side of the role

28:16

play. Nice. and we welcome our

28:18

listeners to give us feedback here. This

28:20

is really where we think the

28:22

field needs to grow. We

28:24

become pretty good at understanding what

28:26

doesn't work. but

28:27

not so good at explaining what does work,

28:29

what is the positive cycle, how do

28:31

we express our need? What what are

28:33

the different types of needs?

28:36

we'd love to for our listeners to

28:38

help us develop it. Even just doing

28:40

this now, my brain is, like, alright, wait a second. I

28:42

got three different kind of moves I'm out

28:44

of this. Mhmm. Like, what is a wit

28:46

a sexual witcher

28:49

might need

28:51

when they

28:52

don't wanna have sex, permission

28:54

not to. Mhmm.

28:55

If they're struggling trying to

28:57

have sex to be reassured in

29:00

the struggle, if

29:00

they're successful in accessing their own desires

29:03

to be celebrated. Right? Those are

29:05

three different needs just for

29:07

that sexual withdrawal. Yes. And I felt like

29:09

that. Yes. yeah, I I

29:10

like all of that. And again,

29:12

I I wanna reassure

29:13

our sexual pursuits out there because

29:16

I know I

29:19

really know that this can feel like

29:21

the same old, same old, but we're talking

29:23

about a sexual

29:25

withdrawal who wants

29:27

to be engaged in the sexual

29:29

relationship that they have understood

29:31

you, that they haven't found

29:33

you critical pushy and,

29:36

you know, always wanting sex. This

29:38

is a new stage and so there's

29:40

more grace and more room

29:43

this conversation. Right. And

29:44

remind yourself that

29:47

the goal is more sex or

29:49

more intimacy and connection. Yeah. But

29:51

if you're not there because of blocks, but

29:53

you're talking about it, you're

29:55

pretty much there. It's the not

29:57

talking about it and not sex. That's the

29:59

void.

29:59

That's the trap. Right? Anytime

30:02

which yours are reengaging, where

30:05

we

30:05

where they're going in a direction we

30:07

need them to go. Right. Even if

30:09

it's not sexual,

30:11

that's I think the sexual

30:14

withdraw responding. you

30:16

know, like and saying something, like, not

30:18

just shutting down, not being silent,

30:21

not rolling over, but

30:23

talking about where they're at.

30:25

or even offering, you know, look

30:27

at my head as to messed up tonight

30:29

to do this. I know you want it, I

30:31

know you need it, and I haven't forgotten

30:34

that. you know, I haven't,

30:36

you know.

30:37

And what I need from you is

30:40

just it could be okay tonight that we

30:42

don't.

30:42

there Beautiful. That's

30:43

what love does. Right? When you feel seen, you wanna expand,

30:45

you wanna give back. Those

30:47

green

30:47

brains do some beautiful things.

30:50

So we're gonna next podcast,

30:52

talk about the pursue us and how

30:54

to go deeper. So calm down, pursue us out

30:56

there. We're not forgetting about you.

30:59

Don't tell

31:00

me to calm down.

31:03

Okay? There's all this thing that you'll pursue it

31:04

too. So I cannot go We'd

31:07

just

31:07

love to invite you to our great

31:09

sex, great love, couples retreat

31:12

on Friday, October twenty

31:14

eighth, ten to five PM eastern

31:16

time, George and I are really going

31:18

to help you apply what

31:20

you learn in the podcast to

31:23

your relationship So if your marriage or

31:25

partnership is functional, but it's not

31:27

that exciting or you wanna

31:29

deepen that connection and

31:31

really improve your intimacy or,

31:33

you know, make sex something that isn't just a

31:35

check off your list and try to bring the

31:37

sizzle back, please join

31:40

us We are gonna spend a whole day enhancing

31:42

your relationship and intimacy,

31:44

dealing with the cycle,

31:46

making it safe for you

31:49

Talk about desire. Talk about

31:51

the actual sex acts that you're

31:53

doing. Also, express what's going

31:55

on in your mind, body, and heart, and

31:57

your spirit. to find deeper

31:59

sexual connection with each other. That's

32:01

October twenty eighth. You can

32:03

find it on foreplay sextherapy

32:05

dot com under our resources

32:07

to sign up now.

32:10

Okay. So tell us about

32:12

your cutting edge training that you're doing

32:14

on success and vulnerability?

32:15

Laura, we just keep pushing it. Coming

32:18

up with a new module on

32:20

the playbook of do a playbook

32:22

of a whichever really practical moment

32:24

by moment moves or what a therapist

32:26

can use. And we're so

32:29

focused on what's happening in

32:31

session. Enough of this talk about theories

32:33

and these global things. We I

32:35

think most therapists are looking for. What do I

32:37

do in this moment? Give me

32:39

a So that's what we're trying to do. That's awesome. I

32:42

am so glad you

32:42

guys are doing this work. I think

32:44

it helps us be organized to

32:47

see you you demos, you do

32:50

explanations, teaching, it

32:52

really is interactive, and I think that so

32:54

many trainings that we

32:56

sit through don't give us an opportunity for

32:58

that. So what you're doing is

32:59

really important. No. We try to

33:02

emphasize the teach it, show it, do

33:04

it, model of learning. You need to have some

33:06

ideas, so we try to teach those. And then we

33:08

try to show what it looks like implementing those

33:10

ideas. But most importantly, you now

33:12

gotta practice it. That's how they become yours.

33:14

And that's we wanna solicit us

33:16

and watch us to do is

33:18

become their own moves. Find George

33:19

and his teaching at success and

33:22

vulnerability dot com. Call

33:24

in your questions to the four play question voice mail.

33:26

Dial 833 my foreplay.

33:29

That's 833 my the

33:31

number four play. And we'll use the

33:33

questions for mailbag episodes.

33:35

All content is

33:36

for entertainment purposes only and should not

33:38

be considered as a substitute for therapy by

33:40

a licensed clinician or is medical advice from

33:43

a doctor. This podcast is

33:45

copyrighted by four play media.