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genuinely dot is accurate and

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so we there yet we see yeah we know others one

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this month is that it is ready

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ready ready hockney accurate

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or settled a t v why

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the french good at some sort of an era

0:54

where very where very whether it has

0:56

little light we have

0:57

very nice country as nickel several microclimates

1:00

really oh anyway we're using

1:02

the please in the at more way so

1:04

we can to see what's coming here we shouldn't use

1:06

to know yet as was a certain amount

1:09

is is a will you just could be taken on

1:11

whereas by gust of wind

1:12

the whenever a business and is

1:14

t the east to leave the house in the morning

1:17

not entirely sure as

1:19

the tendency of the asked and asked and whereas

1:21

now he's in the fairly

1:23

certain it can set saw set saw

1:25

to say i had son was to come the prompt

1:27

for breakfast them alone

1:31

fortunately we've seen jin weirdly

1:33

compelling conversation

1:35

the months ago see miss that she is

1:37

good to as is six in one month old

1:40

daughter that was challenge course a merry

1:42

else as woman have similar age who

1:44

also had a go at the challenge i

1:46

wondered whether see and or her daughter managed

1:48

it within one month well well i think we did

1:50

rectify the since other episodes

1:52

of podcast by me explaining site

1:54

that's a have been advised not to

1:56

buy some listeners said written

1:59

in safe so i

2:01

remember the with some poor woman has described

2:03

trying to do the same thing and hearing something snaps

2:06

suffice and i took that says

2:09

to the very well

2:11

i've i've read the reasons that and decided

2:13

not to proceed the challenge says he wants

2:15

to marry she took her a new city and

2:17

patted advisedly the advice is listening

2:19

to the outcome is very grateful i didn't

2:22

do the splits challenge notes

2:24

as and i have say that my daughter never

2:26

mentioned that again know does it get get

2:28

it up to log in is

2:30

a quite a a busy dream

2:37

the other aspect

2:39

, whoop that breed of tragic life is as

2:41

a song was called slipping

2:43

through my fingers the what about the one

2:45

that said mama mia mia

2:47

parents it it's really sad so yeah

2:50

and the delighted the were

2:52

they saying whatever happened to all the

2:54

things we said we do anyway

2:57

so are the melancholy jason so

2:59

are c and eight did was being so medical

3:01

talk about kids let's back at home with like

3:03

it they never went away say i caught get them

3:05

off your think that's that's what's it like victory

3:07

them constantly even now off the king

3:09

or we could eat tonight

3:11

do you can treat about about the same

3:13

name

3:14

we're waiting through i do recommend it

3:16

as tins of mix themes cause

3:20

they , actually really go to see just

3:22

stick with the of oil an

3:24

onion and bit of a few chili

3:26

flakes to do some surprising things that

3:28

there's tons of mix beans you

3:31

can also get suffers for nato nato

3:33

lump of coal for you just listed feeds

3:36

you liked com illini know

3:40

same like when want the would offer what

3:42

about how friendly people are in wales

3:44

liverpool and you were around the mercy small

3:46

parts of birmingham toyed with sparse

3:50

it

3:51

that nobody a serious article you'll ever

3:53

have been said big themes are

3:55

they now have been has always been they

3:57

keep to say that face when they were has

3:59

thing that

4:01

the libyan heading towards the us a

4:03

check for the last three minutes for

4:06

change the such the south but you

4:08

don't think ruff plagues us over

4:10

it's been a big league in world of new

4:13

hotness so ignites any tuesday

4:15

we must mention this so

4:17

on a good news at ten

4:20

had had of the reasons and

4:22

announced itself to the nation at ten

4:24

o'clock last night with whole new set

4:26

this glad she went floods couldn't

4:28

contain himself he was like that

4:31

where can i say least it to my songs

4:34

i've missed the very beginning because

4:37

muslim on it and finish to fly past

4:39

ten they , you can go

4:41

back and stuff is lot of not a condition

4:43

but not that can mrs ah and

4:46

of and i will talk about of other two minute because

4:48

to buy after i had so been drawn

4:50

in this year i think

4:52

it's because they will watch get anything get around

4:54

the day off that of got some thoughts

4:56

of i read a cat was hum anyway sets

4:59

day i think it will rise you was he was

5:01

he was he was scampering about

5:03

that said

5:05

are you didn't mess on when he appeared on

5:07

fortunately about this is combat tickle

5:09

change that is coming at

5:11

i i was amused watching

5:13

that's because

5:15

save a bit like soft play center

5:17

they've introduced to the zoo or

5:20

presumably without the awful smell from the nasty

5:22

then why do you never know know that they've

5:24

got to say they've got to sit down and

5:26

read out loud soon yeah and

5:28

then he was a walk down

5:30

step across the floor and investment

5:33

the going to

5:34

very difficult rather self

5:36

conscious than dlp way enlisted

5:39

the help he talked someone who isn't this

5:41

what chris morris satirized years

5:43

and years ago that standing up new

5:45

yep yep and then they've got funny

5:47

kind of pillow haven't they the got pen or

5:49

than so l e d bella ruin

5:52

so fucked up there was tough sake i

5:54

watched his explainer on the bbc news

5:56

website where he gave us a little

5:58

i was wearing a jumper and

6:00

well have you want to

6:02

intrude didn't you said spiritual and

6:04

limits elegantly jones elixir

6:06

let's say out in front of us have been

6:09

the fake number ten downing street

6:11

door as does not mention

6:13

of word explain i

6:16

definitely got the impression that more is going to be

6:18

explained the news

6:20

we as is welcome because there's a lotta don't understand

6:23

well don't want to detract the complex

6:25

nature that but is is one more

6:27

journalists choice to explain the north non and price

6:30

com with series of maps and arrows

6:32

to make i might cry subsidies

6:36

toughie i just

6:38

six point is it can't really be explained

6:40

and five seconds

6:42

with diagram there appears to

6:44

be a little bit more to that put out lot

6:46

to say a program at the end of every news person

6:49

that further explains the nord the not

6:51

and preschool to those who are really keen to

6:53

just have recently what it means on serious

6:55

note with every little bit of you

6:58

that's so nostalgic saw

7:00

him or some for the old literally as

7:02

nice old are you genuinely excited

7:05

at the prospects as all

7:07

these different functionalities

7:09

as mean said you know that that was the seven

7:11

called function as it's is nice

7:13

they followed us that happened i

7:16

i'm gonna give it a week because i thought

7:18

to an age now where i do find myself tuning

7:20

in to the tentacled new something for years

7:22

forgot was own to be perfectly honest and now

7:24

is that showed any work

7:29

what my next day while largely popped

7:31

up of correctly

7:32

laptop indeed bloody else and of

7:34

a that leg before we won't

7:36

get let you have you have

7:38

he's just explain something to me and

7:41

i'm not even leaning on the pill or resume

7:43

i didn't even need interactive die

7:45

when jane smith and i'm

7:47

gonna give it a week and see if my understanding

7:50

is has increased during the course that week

7:52

thanks will new news source a very open

7:54

minded allows me all over that is a channel

7:56

five now bring us down walkers

7:58

news at five o'clock

8:00

and that's interesting because i

8:03

didn't know how i watched is just

8:05

see whether his news is any different to anybody

8:07

else isn't it it's actually pretty much is

8:09

very similar of course of go such he

8:11

does this time suggests and he's a very big

8:13

last ah so because his

8:15

bare explaining stuff well i'm

8:18

it's if is better than than it

8:20

couldn't explain it for the editor having

8:23

it's a half of it is ripe for

8:25

well as we just discuss it it is

8:27

right for months but we must you

8:29

need to visit my dismissive few

8:31

more dire che i'm going to be if

8:33

you leadership

8:35

okay to give it a

8:38

lot more time my leadership is always

8:40

same yes he yeah okay can i just say

8:42

oh you need say some hallows

8:44

the well i was going to remind you about charlotte and

8:46

the sausage dog because you've also to i

8:48

was out about a dig my business

8:50

saturday and met charlotte

8:52

and sausage dog free to in the street

8:55

and just want you to say hello to them both a

8:57

free tickets for this reminds me of my

9:00

polling , door a m a in

9:02

the sense that she looked absolutely

9:05

energetic free to and i bent down

9:07

to give her strict control the fact that that

9:10

noticed not sure she looks indeed

9:12

she's shocked me a glance the indicate

9:15

i can say she gave me little no no no

9:17

but she was free to is known to be trifled with

9:19

but nevertheless she's forced to listen fortunately

9:21

the can show that listen to local okay well how

9:23

they charlotte i need say hello to tammy

9:25

he stopped me the streets on way in

9:28

hey i just i stay to

9:30

listen to we've got now just don't worry about

9:32

some people say we teach call from

9:34

it yet she also did she she's

9:36

she said hello and then she slightly back to late

9:39

for me and thought maybe my dress which is

9:41

strange thing is , it's like

9:43

that one but the

9:44

have an effect yes it's she's she's

9:46

kind of a repost herself from

9:48

if i we found

9:50

this stress because when it turned bit hotter

9:52

than the weekend and of if talk my hands

9:54

as the will go through the wardrobe sort

9:57

out the window things put them in their mouth prince

10:01

hey most with case though

10:03

her case was and and

10:07

found , old snow seat the

10:09

i didn't realize or that always that the

10:11

is sale at some studies as he

10:13

was only he tennis a well i'll just try on

10:16

say that fits bc know when you take

10:18

up a very long as it it gets stuck

10:20

at the boss of

10:21

the some very strange human desires

10:23

he just keeps getting it out with assault with an immense

10:26

you just think it'll kill itself finances

10:28

and it didn't do , understand

10:31

that that i thought was of

10:33

it was quite warm sunday more if i'm so sorry

10:36

state in the house

10:37

the my own want to

10:40

well of and we were those terrible

10:42

as since when you're body's discovered weeks

10:45

later she said well at way i can she kept

10:47

herself to assess assess the city

10:49

kept the self the only a but

10:52

it was just

10:53

it was embarrassing that the sausage is quite

10:55

comical i didn't have any put it

10:57

share the love to where you're sharing it with me that

10:59

cut top it off in case you're wondering how

11:01

did you get out yeah caught on returns

11:04

up today would be

11:05

in a hurry still trapped in a nice it would not

11:07

a it

11:08

the mafia very quick question free continuous

11:10

me emails and we get to love island i

11:12

just try this out they're not looking teeth

11:14

or any great kind of enforcing wisdom

11:17

as well the

11:19

dead foxes and

11:23

london is crawling with fox yeah no

11:25

sir pop and once you seen road

11:28

which aren't very many wounded and heads of

11:30

population of fox's what happens to

11:32

all the dead fox's you will see a picture of folks

11:34

i took in the street not not to yes please

11:37

because i reckon thereabouts

11:40

currently living in our next of the woods in

11:42

various different family says up some them not

11:44

married since

11:47

, say that they caught live forever

11:50

but you never see traditional

11:52

ones that is on the road okay look

11:54

at as once must be diverse a going

11:56

a little that since the other night

11:59

and i was

12:00

we have the power to to see his dog

12:02

but it was fairly with might have been ten

12:04

o'clock would was ten something like that and

12:06

i were years is proud as loud as would be a

12:08

lady in the didn't while you sixty

12:11

mail and foods

12:15

if we do in as

12:17

female and

12:19

finishes the scrawny bus of

12:22

just staring at me to staring me out

12:24

of a just they are everywhere found

12:26

on nick the with see raise a really really

12:28

good points of light someone to tell

12:30

to genuinely because genuinely think you federal

12:33

just dying just dying in other cock says

12:35

and decking stuff another and every by

12:37

would stick with nets doesn't a rotting

12:39

carcass really ready smell day

12:41

or i raised prospect of that talks is eaten

12:43

by little foxes

12:46

somebody will tell us that ,

12:49

or you know what she has no

12:51

that because your kiddies you don't want them

12:53

to watch it or they haven't yet started watching

12:55

is where you mindset them a good example

12:57

of fame and and they might

12:59

be watching it's i don't want

13:02

to get involved and

13:04

and i'm not being sneaky

13:06

about that i just

13:09

know i'm like of be like you

13:11

are not a get invested in it

13:13

and then i'll have to watch it then i

13:15

have to read about it and wouldn't feel to

13:17

visit me good about myself i would have

13:19

a correspondence course need a purpose

13:21

to be pseudo code of dna from

13:23

people like me who spite

13:27

of everything they know about the way these television

13:29

shows a maze and despite that best

13:31

judgment they have found themselves

13:33

quite engrossed with it this time

13:35

i have seen grace is she there are some

13:38

quite compelling contestants

13:40

that are still missing italian

13:42

man could data day who

13:44

, i can't i can't

13:46

describe his visit without sounding pervy

13:49

and all ridiculous so not going to

13:51

attempt to do that he is a

13:54

total pratt and occasionally really

13:56

quite tight knit it's and

13:59

his

14:00

and he speaks english with the

14:02

most pronounced and central

14:04

casting know he says

14:07

the girls are i'm fat yeah this

14:09

cities that of he dollars i

14:12

he often just print

14:15

himself like a, he's like

14:17

whatever the Italian for peacock is

14:19

that's what is your name? guy because

14:22

It would be, that would be it but

14:25

he is, I Can't Take

14:27

My Eyes Off him. He's so

14:30

filled with self-love but

14:32

then they don't

14:35

know cuz you weren't listening. They

14:39

are allowed to be supremely narcissistic.

14:41

because we're d c an hour of that day every day

14:44

it's not even an hour it's about forty three minutes

14:46

or something and ,

14:48

they ever talk about during the bits that

14:50

broadcast on what they type is

14:53

is much they fancy someone or someone

14:56

but she by when the cameras aren't all of

14:58

us are when actually a finity about wants

15:00

to do these things but they view photos see

15:02

if my son i have some very interesting

15:04

say we are that the change in the geopolitical

15:06

stands between russia and west

15:08

vs or indeed the ocean road policy the

15:10

chinese are we to do you know yes or

15:13

the principal i would like to hear davide stance

15:15

certainly on northern on preschool is a

15:17

much else besides of but

15:19

it's i can i i i found

15:21

myself oh this terrible have

15:24

much to quit looking forward to simulate said circuses

15:26

to new furnace can the

15:29

financing the i said the just she said

15:31

that and i'll be as a thing to understand the bonuses

15:33

and is that and so

15:35

you know you know that it's that bit

15:38

take the actually does taste of the indulging

15:41

in it's you know that it's probably

15:44

no great to be slightly

15:47

enjoying the sizes near naked bodies

15:51

the in your the

15:53

evening entertain since and yet

15:56

i don't know they didn't see what the thing

15:58

that i've just always thought not

16:01

not amazing enough to get

16:03

past all past all better if you're right amount many

16:05

laughs in it does get was no

16:08

very little humor actually interesting

16:10

the david did do something modern amusing

16:12

last night but , will

16:14

just don't stop talking about him because it does make me scientists

16:16

that i'm just bit sleepy on that the guess

16:19

because he's bound to have to come unfortunately

16:21

as to he's evicted from the i just the

16:23

don't sure he will be evicted but we'll evicted

16:25

but i'm there's another i mean this is

16:27

where i do question my sanity there's another seven

16:30

weeks to go wouldn't be this invested

16:32

in capitalise time i think you will be out

16:34

of moved on to or perhaps the discovered

16:36

a new interest or anything goes life a

16:38

happy watch cassoulet

16:40

with her oh so it's really

16:42

brilliant as the dead

16:45

if is based on real events during

16:47

the watergate scandal looking at some

16:50

of the less said players

16:52

involved in it so it's basically

16:55

about martha mitchell who was the wife

16:57

of senator john that she was played by julia

16:59

roberts executive produced by she to of

17:01

it's and just if wanted to list your

17:03

mindset houses a bikini

17:05

kind to certain sandwich thing is

17:07

it just sumptuous the styled

17:10

brilliantly written and

17:12

just really really great

17:14

i'd recommend guess that he did have to go through

17:16

amazon prime says i get

17:18

their own stalls say sightseeing

17:21

trip to buy that and a

17:23

kid just couldn't recommend that side enough kid

17:25

one recommendation from you just too risky my

17:28

reputation as intellectual i

17:30

want recommend the book and

17:32

the great circle by mackey shit that which

17:34

i'm reading now which i bought when i was with you at paddington

17:36

station okay no way to hates

17:39

and some it's an absolute

17:42

is this really brilliant saga

17:44

of a book which i am at

17:46

cb laughing i'm kind of just reading

17:48

a little bit every night after leviathan to make this

17:50

make little bit better about myself and

17:53

it's brilliant see if anyone's looking for that against

17:55

say that the great circle nothing

17:57

it's really good it's about flying and about

18:00

hollywood and ah

18:02

yes it let's see have to the french

18:05

i've only got about another ten pages

18:07

to go in the and moriarty

18:10

county bestseller that

18:12

both never for well she

18:14

was last week's guest yes if you miss that

18:16

go batshit we were both a bit

18:18

population by the information that

18:20

she gave us about actually listening to the sort of israeli

18:23

completely changed slightly and spokes a

18:25

i swear to certify see the full school

18:28

for your much and nobody else is here

18:30

the if i can highly recommend at

18:32

me and miles split cel has been waking up

18:34

at about a half past five is it

18:36

the first is the foxes so idea

18:38

when they're not being dead at the say have

18:40

been leading that every morning and it's a wonderful

18:43

way to start day because she can just turn

18:45

phrase award points and and it's just

18:47

his teenage she knows exactly what she's doing

18:49

is right and that's the joy as as built you

18:51

can for this as soon as he

18:53

starts he just think i'm in safe

18:55

hands on just gets annoyed i didn't

18:58

want away three idea that she's got really

19:00

brilliant turn of phrase in one of the things

19:02

and and might paraphrase

19:04

apologies the i'm going to and she's

19:06

practically amazing as christmas

19:08

my the

19:08

she says it's a rather kind of anxiety

19:11

ridden young woman that she of

19:13

she walked out since the world every day

19:16

with a pocketful of stones

19:20

even it goods

19:25

the

19:25

agenda my everything in it can be

19:27

used to fortunately this

19:29

way of life

19:32

they were delighted have guest and has

19:34

told , just has to say barely

19:37

four foot away from us his release

19:39

and of i guess is a very

19:41

is as yeah but i don't want to use word esteemed

19:44

esteemed is when they study words

19:46

isn't it that if congress on radio

19:49

way more than it doesn't realize

19:51

when you ever said normal conversation

19:54

my esteemed colleague so

19:56

that's not to that the very talented

19:58

very experience

20:01

i would say war correspondent for that she is also

20:03

the stuff that you do is investigative journalism

20:06

against their backgrounds as of

20:08

conflict or trouble is minutes

20:10

exactly i'm and thank you very much

20:12

that introduction i don't feel esteemed or

20:15

distinguished tools for employees of those

20:17

i well i will with but with grab

20:19

them were both hands yeah i'm not

20:22

a war correspondent don't call myself a

20:24

war correspondent but yes i spend a

20:26

lot of time reporting in consequence

20:28

and post conflict science and

20:30

your podcast is cooled the line fire

20:33

yes and i'm in

20:35

it you have conversations

20:37

with other people his them i'm

20:39

reporters yes so

20:42

i talk to people

20:44

who talked my colleagues and friends who

20:47

are either or reporters all

20:49

who cover conflict or simply work

20:52

in with dangerous environments

20:54

covering say just stories then

20:57

i want to know how that's affected them and what

20:59

they've learned about facing fear

21:01

and danger and often facing

21:03

the the military living their lives

21:05

when which the moment when you source

21:07

that you had the kind of personality

21:10

and determination to see

21:13

what is undoubtedly a very dangerous

21:15

suspect to turn

21:17

don't i always wanted be a foreign

21:19

correspondent i knew that from from

21:22

geckos and , didn't

21:24

think about whether whether

21:26

had in it or was it was

21:28

for i had and me that wanted that that

21:31

that me for but

21:34

i just yeah i just

21:36

went the story that to the semi above

21:39

all else it's it's covering the stories i

21:41

guess you know if look at my past

21:44

i , iranian revolution as

21:46

born in iran and remember the rain resolutions

21:49

really well and i

21:51

remember standing on balcony with mom and dad

21:54

are so kind of does choice the fire but

21:57

traits chase a fire and

21:59

bullets mm

22:01

guns and , and dad

22:03

talking me through it it

22:05

didn't feel scared i have i

22:08

that i was incredibly curious

22:10

and of course that stays course you and

22:14

that kind of and i think is

22:17

part of dna so

22:20

the him to the backs of table usually mom

22:22

and dad arguing for the on different sides

22:26

on , which size well i guess

22:28

so my dad was in the rainy navy navy

22:31

it's not that he was pro

22:34

an imperious dictator disaster

22:36

yes yes i'm but he was working

22:38

for the saw i guess my dad believe that

22:40

country like country needed

22:42

benevolent dictator however naive

22:44

that sounds and i guess he was realistic

22:47

in that he realized he knows

22:49

shortcomings of the saw but

22:52

he couldn't really see viable of viable

22:54

viable i'm he

22:56

can see a viable option

22:58

, whereas my mom

23:00

was on the other side she absolutely understood

23:03

the revolution and she understood

23:05

the need for amazed more socialist

23:08

government and why people

23:10

were angry at the corruption

23:12

and at the massive rich

23:15

poor device which actually

23:18

is still is you know is is is

23:21

a which divides iranian society right

23:23

now at is the one thing

23:25

that you think connect

23:26

people he seems to

23:28

be more cars london and to work

23:31

in conflicts

23:33

you know i think there are several things it was really

23:35

interesting starting to

23:37

, colleagues and seeing these connecting

23:40

threads i think think

23:42

will really honest about their

23:45

desire for desire you

23:47

know people really honest people that that

23:50

they're not just have to stick just

23:52

have out with fixates

23:55

on a on a on mission the actually

23:58

you start off and you're young and i'm

24:00

adrenaline hit and it's exciting

24:03

then

24:03

at first for adventure that people will

24:05

honest about that a way appreciated that

24:08

i think as well there's an absolute

24:10

curiosity which sounds really obvious

24:12

give you example of

24:14

, i'm i'm emphasizing the word absolute

24:17

said as one as a journalist as be tickled

24:19

anus i may i ask ask

24:21

most famous you've heard that one having i

24:23

was transfixed by the episode

24:25

yeah was an interesting man

24:27

so a's extraordinary isn't he good

24:29

works deep undercover so

24:31

that was a moment where he was attacked

24:34

by a mob and malawi they thought that

24:36

he was nuts and a sticky killing sticky

24:39

so , mob hundreds

24:41

people try to kill him and

24:45

six to me it's a miracle six i

24:47

i it's know that would likely good lightly but as

24:49

a lot of my guests explain having

24:51

survived the situations as miracle at the miracle

24:53

that he survived see went

24:55

back the next day to try

24:58

and understand why

25:01

the most wanted killer the

25:03

time understand how they

25:05

could look into his eyes see his fear and

25:07

aspirations and carry on throwing

25:09

knives and stones at him so

25:11

it's that kind of deep desire

25:14

to understand the human condition and

25:16

also deep desire kind of time

25:18

understand the nature of evil

25:21

as evil exist and

25:23

, for ourselves you withhold

25:26

that this these this person as the

25:28

enemy that the state as the enemy is that

25:30

is that true true would say that's

25:32

one thing that everybody seems to have common

25:35

one is a wonderful things about

25:37

your interview with him i saw was

25:39

his and his ability to

25:41

the very very honest about the kind

25:43

of message that he uses to get story

25:46

as he takes on a different

25:48

persona and puts himself in these situations

25:51

and therefore carries with him a really

25:54

complex at

25:56

double standards of morality to get

25:58

his when to get trying to explain

26:00

the chinese sex trafficking wearing

26:02

he bases started getting out with a

26:04

girl he was it was it will the peach

26:06

blossom

26:08

how some terrible place where we

26:10

the sex worker and then

26:12

say that stupid success in such as

26:14

the trees his nurse what yeah just

26:16

mind blowing actually yes

26:19

yes i called him up on that can

26:21

block hang on a mini of what what what are the ethics

26:23

of this your you you know yet you're lying

26:26

you're hurting someone in pursuit

26:28

of the truth she said that

26:30

his then

26:32

girlfriend forgave ,

26:35

he said that she actually turned up court

26:37

and good evidence in support of him

26:40

to mention and it said the i listen to his

26:42

with a friend of yours mace of the didn't

26:44

eldest son has francis and perfect

26:46

pronunciation would make i'll i'll

26:48

buy am a bot i'll buy a who is the rift

26:51

and she is she is a genuine friend of yours

26:53

yet of i love her i

26:55

of is that is gave me gave cop says it's so interesting

26:57

but what that with compelling about her with her

27:00

of the of which very honest have that

27:02

and frustration she is a risky

27:04

yes reporters over the war in iraq

27:07

and she was really irritated by

27:09

the western journalists who had sit there

27:11

in office

27:12

leaving it fighting occasionally

27:15

i'm a doing online dating

27:17

them think even at lenox holiday because

27:20

they they were just the job than they

27:22

were going yeah i know it's

27:24

it's really interesting talking so i made

27:26

sure that i spoke to journalists

27:29

who didn't just parachute in and out as

27:32

as i do that ,

27:34

who lived through the

27:36

walls and who lived through what they have

27:38

to report and still live through one

27:40

my other guess waves wifi wifi

27:43

one the fees journalists

27:45

who didn't leave afghanistan and he's in

27:47

afghanistan right now so is

27:49

really interesting having how to conversations with them

27:52

about them fact that they just

27:54

find so frustrating that

27:56

they have the they

27:59

have the brave the streets and go

28:01

home and live among amongst

28:03

the violence and i'm a live in the war

28:05

and lived through it meanwhile

28:07

the western journalists the

28:09

sitting there on kinda booking their

28:11

holidays as he say i think most galling

28:14

part of that given

28:16

that they won't hinder

28:18

and they became the holidays in the got a nice life

28:20

because that you say as a job know he

28:23

, you know that yeah and you can't hold

28:25

that against them i think the most going part

28:27

is that they're the ones you get his get

28:29

glory glory do thought twice

28:31

what was really important to speak to people like

28:33

mace and swape

28:36

and , us i mean on us his

28:38

kind of broken through but i think

28:40

it's because you know if it is wasn't for

28:42

journalists at mason slaves yeah

28:44

off western journalists would have no story

28:47

yeah the people on ground mason shave the ones

28:49

on earth thing the amazing stories we

28:51

cover and yet often i just brushed

28:54

aside at local journalist here

28:56

or they called fixer which is well

28:58

a lot of journalists now because it's i

29:00

did these it seems to

29:02

to either favor expression journalists and

29:05

and then to be kind of yes sidelined

29:07

think that the my school in part of it

29:09

the other things that sam the i was really

29:11

grateful you add talk to us about

29:14

with the the need for

29:16

story to actually deliver something

29:18

better than the story say such a change

29:21

to right wrong in the world the

29:24

in a pool two counts and

29:26

home to the counts people who are doing

29:28

these terrible things and

29:30

i wonder why you think

29:32

all kinds of war fatigue

29:34

is that the layman's are not inability

29:37

to seem to be able to prosecute

29:40

the facts that was saying unfold

29:42

particularly in ukraine it

29:46

it's a war that is details without

29:49

the need for correspondence

29:51

to the in it as well you know we can

29:53

see the footage cm that

29:55

people send our sister

29:58

that we games i say no it is

30:02

it t simple to say that we have

30:04

lost our ability to them want to do something

30:07

with it do you think of for for teachers

30:09

i think i am drink

30:12

i don't hold it against viewers

30:15

and readers thirds more

30:18

fatigue there's only so much death

30:21

and destruction and right you can take

30:24

on , monday night on her on

30:26

tuesday night so i really

30:28

don't i don't get ugly i don't expect

30:30

people to always engaged engaged

30:32

know we see that with that a

30:34

few years and setup of it but

30:36

i think it's our job to

30:38

make sure you're quite right correspondent on with

30:41

needed especially when you're getting when

30:43

out but i think it is our job

30:45

to make sure we're pushing

30:47

for those stories to be

30:49

in that he used to be on used agenda to push

30:52

and push up with to investigate up for correspondence

30:54

think can come into their own words

30:57

is not just footage of bombings

31:00

and fighting but to actually investigates

31:02

the desiccate war crimes investigate

31:05

right investigate him often

31:07

really boring so is the we boring ones money

31:09

trail every funding

31:11

important his money coming from so

31:14

i think yeah i think yeah i don't

31:16

blame people for getting tired and not

31:18

wanting to lead not wanting to listen

31:21

that we've just got push and push matronly

31:23

do embarrasses me

31:25

when i think about how ukraine

31:27

which dominated headlines dominated britain every

31:29

single radio news bulletin every single

31:31

teenagers person and now

31:33

it's there but it's usually item

31:36

hi baby for and

31:39

for and it because we

31:41

have biggest fry cook

31:47

the only thing and

31:49

, not we don't have nice

31:52

caravan moved on yeah as

31:54

we knew under no obvious end

31:56

in sight end ukraine now and guess

31:58

people feel frustrated or what

32:00

they really do and if you say people have their

32:02

own concerns and again i

32:04

feel strongly that we

32:06

we shouldn't dismiss somebody

32:08

is concerned he lives in middle of england

32:10

he so far away from ukraine i

32:13

, get angry about that

32:15

thing as normal that human nature as

32:17

you something else felt quite strongly about you know people

32:19

were really angry that them

32:22

that people will rarely what about

32:24

ukraine and not syria and

32:26

they thought it was racism and it may

32:28

be some of it is thought

32:31

you know i understand that as well because

32:33

it's in europe so of course

32:35

you're going to react to something that so near

32:37

of course it's much easier to to disassociate

32:39

from war that in middle east

32:42

i yeah i kind of think we need take it easy

32:45

on people ask what struck he

32:47

or sense feed turning to giovanni

32:49

and she was talking by yourself i have a question

32:51

about a about of favorite

32:54

wall and that sounds advocate

32:56

terrible it's person doesn't take notes context

32:58

but your point was that a lot

33:00

of correspondence become deeply deeply

33:02

humanly attempts to one

33:04

particular at saying that

33:06

they seen their career and she was talking

33:08

about sarajevo's as she when she

33:10

was talking about see to sorry i said

33:12

and the muscular ship in it says you do

33:14

realize just how much history is

33:17

repeating itself in plain sight at the moment

33:19

stay in oh gosh yeah

33:21

absolutely and see those patterns

33:24

played , and over again

33:27

you know to didn't to see

33:29

the absolute inability

33:32

of the un

33:34

for example and to see

33:37

the west's absolute

33:39

a inability when they

33:42

invade foreign country as with

33:44

the with afghanistan and iraq to

33:46

have an actual plan to

33:48

go in understanding a culture

33:51

understanding of religious

33:53

divides and that the

33:55

and fractures it's quite it's

33:57

tony would have thought we would have learn something from

34:00

the

34:02

can a new such a legend says

34:04

covered so many wars and

34:06

fun someone like some kind of

34:09

it's really really important to have their

34:11

analysis and to have them looking

34:13

back and seeing these patterns as

34:15

you say it's and seeing history repeat

34:17

itself over and over and over again i

34:20

it makes me quite depressed and

34:23

and cynical and is the one thing

34:25

that really sticks in

34:27

your mind's yeah destroyed your

34:29

physically connected to that you know you

34:31

will never lose interest and oh

34:34

that's iran again that's

34:36

just as in my blood semi dna

34:39

ice yeah i've lived

34:42

at the moment i was born was born there

34:45

i haven't been able to report

34:48

that since i write book about it

34:50

an , to sex and drugs the book

34:52

so so will the will city

34:56

live love sex death in such countries

34:58

is sarah george was two copies in two had anal

35:02

sex in there as well by the way later than one of

35:04

these are as one may

35:06

be all after

35:11

i say some of the neighbors you're both

35:14

unless the city of lies love

35:16

sex death the search for truth and in

35:18

tehran by a see what would

35:20

seriously why was it that well

35:23

why good that and well because there's lots sex

35:25

interested it's i was i was writing

35:27

about the underbelly as

35:30

as of life in tehran so

35:32

, see was based there with correspondence

35:36

correspondence for three years and i was self

35:38

censoring as you have to have every single

35:40

journalist in iran hostage if he wants

35:42

her not be imprisoned or

35:44

not get shots how the country if you're western journalist

35:46

i was there as an iranian an so

35:50

i have be really careful and was warned quite

35:52

he times i was months quietly was

35:54

intelligence am i was on

35:56

earnest and

35:58

actually they was on

36:00

when i left country i'd go

36:02

back for , years

36:04

researching my book and the

36:06

first time went back after i'd made documentary in syria

36:08

with the rest of the airport and

36:10

so that that even be monastery my

36:13

work once had left the country and

36:15

ask me why had been hanging out with

36:17

terrorists in syria we have been

36:19

hanging out with some activists and was

36:22

against us that have you been in situations

36:24

where you're genuinely thought genuinely might not

36:26

survive this and if he has

36:28

of what an ass keeps ass danger

36:31

to the fullest no

36:33

danger

36:36

well i i i have

36:39

yeah i've a few times i've i've

36:41

been mean really scared and

36:45

, to colleagues

36:47

about it was interesting actually that

36:49

we all all

36:51

to go through the

36:53

same kind set of set so

36:57

actually fair bit of fair

36:59

com and sometimes

37:01

as acceptance that okay this

37:03

acceptance that and once says

37:05

that acceptance or something quite

37:08

liberating about that even though of

37:10

course you're thinking i don't want die

37:12

that launched i don't want die to launch die and

37:15

then when you some advice there

37:18

is there high of having survived

37:21

and actually clarissa ward

37:25

brilliant kind funny journalist

37:28

, colleague colleague

37:30

was really interesting talking about it she said she it

37:33

was that that kind of euphoria

37:35

of having survived that

37:38

can be quite addictive so

37:40

it's not the actual danger

37:42

and snow

37:44

feeling scared feeling scared of horrible

37:46

but , yeah the four years surviving

37:48

something like that that some

37:50

time he won't people and go

37:53

that

37:53

is what's your ramsey describes

37:55

in the other focus the i listened to and

37:58

that was really compelling conversation

38:00

that he and of people remember he's a good

38:02

correspondent he was injured in ukraine

38:04

earlier this year and he hasn't these

38:07

these contemplate single that turning sour

38:09

return trip always been back

38:11

to sinbad ah yes right

38:13

yes right i i

38:16

do it was so fresh from

38:18

the trauma he can really hear that

38:20

yeah of having nearly been killed

38:24

then i

38:25

one thing i noticed with stewart with

38:27

a few others as my guest

38:31

houses and of resistance the

38:33

therapy resistance

38:35

to accept things that

38:38

you maybe have ptsd

38:42

the you need help and i totally understand

38:45

that by the wake of i'm the same because

38:47

as something that feels self indulgence

38:49

about going to therapist when

38:51

you think well think survived and actually

38:54

this actually this the people do it was

38:56

leading kind of magnanimous about this

39:00

then the are you use a compassionate

39:02

when he was talking about his experience pales

39:05

in comparison with ukrainians

39:07

him lives do that every day so

39:09

it's thought yes kind of kind

39:11

noticed that would quite few my

39:14

of of my guest the rules it as a says

39:16

they much school of thought one

39:19

hundred school of thought was well if put your hands the fire

39:21

is can get burned cool cushion

39:24

get depressed afterwards

39:25

maybe i'm people will drink bit more

39:28

yeah , some people will be bit

39:30

more promiscuous you know maybe

39:32

you seek out in a ways

39:34

to cut as such a numb the

39:36

pain or maybe

39:39

i will i certainly do is maybe you disassociate

39:42

don't give yourself hard time for

39:46

traumatized and an ,

39:48

it it service doesn't

39:50

come across as that assists fatuous question

39:52

but do you expect when you return from

39:54

a trip like that let's say you go

39:56

to a dinner party an example

39:59

of as speaker so on today and party

40:01

to sure you're not like sh if conduct

40:03

which are you guys wasn't putting would you expect

40:05

to be the focus of attention

40:08

to such events from a group people

40:10

perhaps solo album

40:12

professional the photo people in your social

40:15

circle would you expect them to paint

40:17

questions that he was desperate for information

40:19

about what it's really not

40:22

sometimes you

40:24

know especially when got back from afghanistan to certain

40:26

people are really helped talk about it's

40:29

god just angry every

40:31

day the patriarchy goes

40:34

i mean really funny

40:36

as gives me as the when angry at

40:38

us about afghanistan even

40:40

having was just stopped talking about the

40:43

discourses when yeah ah

40:45

don't even know yes oh it's so

40:47

much worse than that you know go

40:49

than that that the being

40:51

dog didn't forced to marry a

40:53

scan it forced marry taliban

40:55

fighters you , they're being

40:57

arrested on mass charged

41:01

with moral crimes and imprisoned

41:03

with no record of it and

41:05

imprisoned because

41:09

you i mean the situation so much

41:11

worse than , could imagine

41:14

and i was just i was angry quickly

41:19

how angry at angry at patriarchy

41:22

point , sounds which some point try

41:24

it doesn't and a satisfying that no no

41:26

so but that was the and

41:29

west the block from those stories is

41:31

it because there aren't enough people

41:33

who are getting incest guns on springs

41:35

toys else is it because they

41:37

stopped at the news desk

41:40

sensibly not getting the ad time

41:42

even though they are that be told well

41:44

known people that so they

41:46

are being told

41:47

so i managed i i i

41:50

told it you know our team told

41:52

it and actually we were commissioned i

41:54

t v commissioned of me

41:57

to cover story of women afghanistan

41:59

women

42:00

looking at it six months before the tournament take over

42:03

i'm so i was looking at

42:05

parity the taliban were taking over

42:08

six months before they took over government and

42:10

, they were doing to women and another to well that

42:13

money went after them have called afghanistan

42:15

their country for women said i was

42:17

an amazing commission isn't but you know i'm

42:19

really lucky that people do care in

42:21

the industry are working but like i said you

42:23

know again how many of those programs

42:25

can you have before people turn off

42:28

and actually it's not

42:30

responsibility of kind of

42:32

ordinary folk time to deal with

42:35

the that that that astronomical

42:37

rising cost of living in

42:39

this country you know it the

42:42

united nations member

42:44

states is governments

42:47

and that they know they bloody

42:49

know what's going on so it's of putting

42:51

pressure putting pressure on them

42:54

the moment as well as you would have witnessed

42:56

so see far more than than than we

42:58

did this at when the taliban

43:01

a a rich and the march

43:04

back in kabul and said a

43:06

eat i know it'll be falling and

43:08

we kind of went it was bit of a weird

43:10

homelessness at we had fight

43:13

a war

43:14

maybe we should lead them and see how goes something

43:16

presumably you with eggs ah

43:19

yes yes mean i i i

43:21

i'd already been investigating them by that

43:23

point so set set for six months

43:25

when pr machine with her extraordinary the pretty

43:28

savvy enough , ice

43:30

time when you when you're there you know you see

43:32

that's the one there i said they were

43:34

in a handle on all yeah lots of them had got

43:36

these kind of cool high top

43:38

trainers trainers

43:41

dollars dollars they

43:43

want to talk about women's rights

43:45

you know there was a famous press conference

43:48

or whether spokesperson was talking about

43:50

women low with and my plan

43:52

unable that

43:54

was even thing and that that singing the streets i

43:56

mean i'm a a exaggerating the sky is

43:58

is the eight point six two me away

44:01

they knew how to play the pr machine

44:03

and how they need that

44:05

the west is looking at them and the west

44:08

was going to treat their treatment

44:10

of women as a litmus test and

44:12

so they trotted out all the platitudes

44:15

the platitudes i would say i would say one thing

44:18

that you know let's say there are

44:20

some well meaning talibs and

44:22

is not a minute by the way they're

44:24

not all evil horrible people

44:27

some them are just some the men that a products

44:29

as that of his patriarchal feudalistic

44:32

culture and society some of

44:34

them you know it just

44:36

just as a success the of from poor

44:39

families and just there for the for money you

44:41

know they get fed the guy uniform but

44:43

let's say that they're wrong the

44:46

who our lives in couple but she do

44:48

believe that you shouldn't force woman

44:51

into marriage isn't abductor and force

44:53

her to marry taliban fighter however

44:57

they couldn't believe that all

44:59

they wish what's really clear

45:01

is that they don't have control over their

45:03

commanders in the field

45:05

so anyway couple

45:07

can check out all the plus she's like

45:09

and even if it's really well meaning it com control

45:12

it's commanders in the fields into com

45:15

so it's just it's

45:17

is depressing if is a young

45:19

woman oh woman walesa young woman came

45:21

to you and said would you

45:23

recommend your career

45:26

now in twenty

45:28

twenty two

45:29

would you know

45:32

, needed your body said

45:34

that we have an obligation

45:37

to tell young people to do this job

45:40

now more than ever and is kind of pastries

45:42

world where there's so little

45:45

confidence in the

45:47

media and in journalism that we actually

45:49

need young

45:51

, passionate bright

45:54

young journalists taking the

45:56

mantle and another

45:59

tough question from if enough people do

46:01

women in the

46:03

war

46:04

arena to they see things

46:06

differently would they see different things

46:09

to mail correspondents well we

46:11

we can do all the stories that the man

46:13

can do plus we have access to half

46:15

population in countries where

46:18

, men don't have access to women so

46:20

like yeah scams time for

46:22

example example it's really hard

46:25

for men have access to women's quarters

46:27

and speak to speak women especially

46:30

in rural areas of the country areas just impossible

46:34

so we can do everything they can do

46:36

and we have the added bonus i

46:38

would also say i'm and i'm discussed

46:41

this with my female colleagues

46:43

and podcasts that we are

46:46

overlooked the underestimated

46:49

which is an absolute gifts

46:52

that how i managed to operate in not for these countries

46:55

you know least look at com

46:59

local middle aged woman the

47:02

big eyebrows and waved me on

47:05

it's been the best way hamilton is

47:07

that your advantage of her is very

47:09

telling the innocence of the janine to the

47:11

to zone episode that that she found

47:13

her sexism when she came back home didn't

47:15

say in the office with editors

47:18

and then he they stood hands

47:20

on hips and a out rice

47:22

anger at the fact that shit that's get

47:24

pregnant and

47:26

, him a of and also a very grateful

47:28

that she mentioned time phones phones

47:31

it's and judah how nice it is to

47:33

hear a to hear to not

47:35

much of it over some awesome the some

47:37

so upset

47:40

and say see here a

47:43

and a reality just

47:45

talked about very matter fact the

47:47

and very openly but of course

47:50

if you're female war correspondents

47:52

under the age of fifty three still

47:54

gonna have to consider taking

47:57

, different notice that

47:59

funny

48:00

it can if you can scan cover conflict

48:02

for long periods of time yeah no

48:04

pun intended only a third i'm

48:06

just grateful to here in there things you know

48:08

that is until one of the listen to that will not yet

48:11

it's good it's all good at see us as

48:13

things and it's wonderful serves as it is

48:15

a real arizona onset

48:17

of world that we only see the product

48:20

of that me i read stuff but when of

48:22

ten minute reading about the actual

48:24

kind of nice know mean like

48:26

unto just

48:28

when you get fact that to to britain to

48:30

london in your case is it really

48:32

weird and do you get wound down bucky

48:34

thing in my accomodate anything two

48:37

, and now

48:40

work with his own the hundreds

48:42

of ah ha how

48:44

do you process that kind

48:46

of

48:47

daily lives as well

48:51

you know i i

48:53

can offer feel down get

48:55

back

48:58

do yeah i do i often feel down

49:00

as period as as of readjustments

49:03

at initially of a period of absolutely

49:05

for a of being in a nice clean bed

49:07

that's my own and and and then leave

49:09

the yeah that works i see the giraffe

49:12

at heathrow he must have ,

49:14

or enhance our live yada yada

49:17

hazard so yeah months that was

49:19

wears off sometimes it's cause like period

49:21

adjusted the seeing an aerobics and as as

49:23

little bit little and

49:26

kind of adjusting back to canada the daily

49:28

grind here grind would

49:30

say

49:32

becoming less empathetic friends didn't have

49:34

good thing i'm ,

49:36

as told me this year especially my mom

49:38

my mom does get upset with me

49:40

when when don't let her complain

49:43

and moan about everyday things that she should

49:45

be able be so

49:47

i yeah i think i have to last

49:50

i have to work and myself would allow i

49:52

have to learn all the of a saucer low rider

49:55

are considering all work and on his

49:57

oh my god as his as as

50:01

i'm very , to

50:03

meet and will sit still have

50:05

to say to study polish

50:08

doesn't she's puts us to same tells them

50:10

until tells them i thought

50:12

nice a slap on for both in i yet

50:14

what much appreciate don't be so we do

50:16

pretty nice for slothful brother like god

50:18

or the sense that he did it would all anyway that

50:20

the your eye makeup is exquisite nc

50:22

think is a little flick at the end and said the eyeliner

50:25

everything rising if you and i said

50:27

that it was just with just about with the wrong

50:29

answer

50:30

a couple side silicone do anything with

50:32

them said wow you must anyway

50:34

right the iraqis magnifying there are now

50:36

he is yeah commentators is either

50:39

when you always on my case always yelling because

50:41

thought i'm thinking maybe i could get

50:43

a great big taxes double glazing

50:46

dot is then so i could put in

50:48

front of my mirror so i could

50:50

actually see blindly what you mean

50:52

you don't have a yeah know i have a mental illness

50:54

number one a magnifying mirrors

50:56

are it doesn't work anymore has gone beyond that in

50:59

real greatest editor of

51:01

the as a society busy elite serious

51:03

question coming up and the

51:05

question of others have it can't

51:07

be they have in war zone surely

51:10

fantasy

51:11

that me out of line out

51:13

bloody window yeah this i

51:15

know if racing any way yeah

51:17

it's really nice not sick as i am quite

51:19

sane i mean look at luton the of even got

51:21

between elbaneh census

51:23

, when i work yet islam racing

51:26

racing of want blend in thank

51:29

you for coming in and person owes it's just

51:31

for detainees were assigned by on the megaphone

51:33

so they say that is that's when you

51:35

play i'm bursting with excitement to the being

51:38

close table from side silly success

51:40

and versus fool with a threesome of

51:44

and fits thank you so much and i really

51:46

recommend i i didn't know what to expect from for couple

51:48

of illness and i've been really drawn

51:50

in and others are still thinking

51:52

about geographical says she does it the geographical

51:55

feel for guy us and kids

51:57

i'm a male shelter night it was over

51:59

the winter i do recommend

52:05

i believe they can run on a line of fire

52:08

listening to them

52:10

up they'll when you get you pumped

52:13

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