0:04

The Book of Joe podcast is a production

0:06

of iHeartRadio. Hey

0:14

Darren, Welcome back. It is the

0:16

Book of Joe podcast with Me, Tom

0:18

Berducci and of course Joe Madden. Joe,

0:21

I got a question for you. Are you a fan

0:23

of game shows?

0:25

I think I was. We watched

0:27

Jeopardy last night a little bit, so

0:29

I watched that, you know growing up.

0:31

What was it?

0:33

Was the Gong Show a game show? I

0:37

guess the Gonk Show?

0:39

That was. Yeah, that was big. When I was

0:41

playing in Selena's, me and my roommate Doc Lions

0:45

would watch it, uh, you

0:47

know, with just all the characters and eventually a Geene

0:49

Jene the Dancing Machine. Of course, I appeared

0:51

at home played for us after a day

0:53

game at Selenas we all ran up to the plate started

0:55

dancing with Gene Jane the Dancing

0:58

Machine who came out of his limousine

1:00

at Home plate.

1:01

Wow, what a thrill. Yeah actually

1:03

got he got to meet him?

1:05

Yeah we did. It was was a dream

1:08

come true, it really was. Yeah.

1:09

Well, we're going to play a game later on with

1:12

you, Joe. It involves the Hall of Fame.

1:14

We'll test your knowledge a little bit. But

1:16

before we get there we have to talk about

1:19

Jackson Holiday. Number

1:21

one prospect in baseball, just I

1:24

can't miss kind of prospect who

1:26

set the all time high school record

1:29

for hits, breaking the record by J t Rio

1:31

Muto. Just tore through the

1:33

minor leagues, had a great spring training,

1:35

slugging over six hundred. They

1:38

sent him down to start the season just

1:40

to play a little more second base, see a few

1:42

more left handed pitchers, and

1:44

then just completely fell

1:46

on his face in the big leagues. We're

1:49

talking about thirty six plate

1:51

appearances, and he struck out

1:53

half the time, two hits

1:56

when he did put the ball in play, fifty

1:59

poll rate. And I

2:01

saw him early on in the first couple of days

2:04

where you saw the typical nervousness

2:06

Joe guys up in the big leagues,

2:08

especially in the environment like Fenway, out

2:11

in front of everything. You just didn't see

2:13

any kind of confidence or

2:16

ease in his body at all. And

2:18

then he never did get his feet on the ground. It

2:20

was very strange to see someone you think

2:22

has grown up around the game, wouldn't be

2:25

wild by the situation, has had a ton

2:27

of success. The Orioles did the right thing.

2:29

They had to send him back down the Triple A. He'll

2:31

be much better when he gets back, of course, But Joe,

2:34

I'd like your take. And you see a

2:37

young player, you know is really he's a

2:39

good hitter, he's a really good player and will

2:41

be and just to fall

2:43

completely on his face like that. As

2:45

a manager, you see something like that going

2:47

on, what do you think? How do you handle that situation?

2:50

Yeah, I mean, just got to be honest with yourself

2:53

and everybody around. Yeah,

2:55

I mean, first of all, I've never seen

2:57

the kid play, and I know everything you've talked

3:00

about and everything I've read or heard,

3:02

and I guess it seemed like he was truly ready

3:04

to be there obviously, but was there also

3:06

this pressure to bring him up to maybe

3:09

ahead of his time. Everybody's always concerned

3:11

about starting a clock and getting complained

3:13

against because we're holding him back. We're holding him

3:15

back. The guy's really young, heasy,

3:18

and I don't even know maturity wise, I'm sure he's

3:20

fantastic, But it

3:23

happens, like you said, it just happens. What was Willie

3:25

May's like over twenty six before

3:27

you hit a home running?

3:27

Yeah, he's like one for twenty three. I mean,

3:30

listen, Mike, Trout had to go back to the minor leagues.

3:33

Yeah, Byron Buxton

3:35

was a top pick, number two pick. He had to go back

3:37

down. You know last year with

3:39

the Orioles, Grayson Rodriguez and Colton

3:42

cows Aer both went back down and they've

3:44

been doing great since they came back.

3:45

Yeah, you got to take catch your breath. I mean sometimes

3:47

you just the expectations are

3:50

there. You get to the big leagues. Even though

3:52

it's the same distance as everything, it just appears

3:54

differently gets fast. When the

3:56

world gets fast, man, your talents go away.

3:59

It's that simple. Your

4:01

confidence, Dwayne's a little bit and

4:03

all all of a sudden, it's just different.

4:06

It gets. The best way to describe it to those

4:08

that are not in that situation is everything

4:10

moves way too quickly. You can't slow it down.

4:13

You don't breathe properly. He

4:15

goes up to the plate, he's just swinging up pictures just

4:17

to put it in play, not to strike out. He's

4:20

eager, so he's rolling over and pulling everything he's

4:22

in the ball get to him and drive it the opposite field.

4:25

Just happens. It just happens. Like I said,

4:27

I'm sure he's going to be fine and next time, next

4:29

time through if I'm the Oriols, and I'm

4:31

sure they're not really concerned about it. The

4:34

kid himself's got a great pedigree with his pop

4:36

and everybody else, so it's all going to be handled

4:38

well. But stuff happens. Expectations can

4:41

be kind of difficult to handle sometimes

4:43

when you're that young, that much expected

4:46

of you, and the world gets a little bit too fast.

4:48

Yeah. I mean, you're talking about a guy who's never failed

4:51

before. He's only twenty years old, but he

4:53

has never gone through anything like this, and it happens

4:56

at the big league level with a spotlight on you.

4:58

It's a lot to bear, there's no question about it.

5:01

So the next day you find yourself in Norfolk,

5:03

Virginia in front of eight thousand fans and he started

5:05

one for eight in his first two games. But he's

5:08

obviously going to be okay if I find any

5:10

fault here. Joe, I like your opinion on

5:12

this is he's a natural shortstop,

5:15

But to me, he's not a big league

5:17

shortstop. You know, he just doesn't have

5:20

the arm to play the position, at least when

5:22

you compare him to Gunnar Henderson. I

5:24

mean, if you were a scout you're watching both these guys

5:26

at a showcase, you would

5:28

say, Gunnar Henderson is my shortstop, and we'll

5:31

find a place for the other guy. And

5:33

you know, I thought that the Orioles should

5:35

have known that coming into this twenty twenty four

5:37

season and given him reps at second base

5:39

exclusively in spring training. And

5:43

I know that Gunnery also played some third base

5:45

last year. He's a great enough athlete you can put him

5:47

anywhere. And I feel the same about Jackson

5:49

Holliday. Good enough athlete, you can put him anywhere.

5:51

And I saw him defensively at second base as shortstime

5:54

short time in the big leagues, and I did not see a

5:56

shortstop arm, to be quite honest with you. So

5:59

he's going to be, I think a great major league

6:01

second baseman. But if I'm the Orioles,

6:03

I would have just put him there in spring training

6:05

and just let him run there and get comfortable at

6:07

second base.

6:08

Cannot agree with you more. I mean I always

6:10

to fight that when in the minor

6:12

leagues, and this was a big deal back in the day.

6:15

You were afraid to move a guy to his position because

6:17

you're concerned about all this awful

6:20

mental gymnastics, he's going to have to go through.

6:22

Go through. But in a situation like

6:24

that, if you know that you have a guy at shortstop

6:27

and this is his position, you know,

6:29

but you already got somebody there established and well, and he

6:31

could always go back there if you have to. I'm

6:33

a big believer in moving him, absolutely moving him,

6:36

because when the bat is ready, you

6:38

have to have a place to play somebody. So in a perfect

6:40

world, say it was going to be in the minor leagues longer than

6:42

he was, and the shortstop

6:44

was well established position, regardless of the Oriols

6:46

or anybody else, move him, Move

6:48

him around, give him different positions to play at,

6:51

get him comfortable, because when

6:53

his bat is ready and there's a position

6:55

or a spot open or available, you want to be ready

6:57

to plug him right into that spot and not have

7:00

to wait for a shortstop spot to be open,

7:02

or bring him to the big leagues and start teaching him on the

7:04

fly completely a new position, which again

7:06

is going to rev

7:08

it up a little bit to the point where you're right going

7:11

to the ballpark, dal He's going to be a little bit different than

7:13

he hadn't normally been used to so I agree,

7:15

I'm all about that. It was about that in the minor leagues.

7:18

I wanted guys moving around. I also,

7:20

like I said, I thought you could get to the big league sooner if

7:23

you were more adaptable at other positions.

7:26

So that again, once the bat is ready

7:28

and you want the kid there, you have to be

7:30

ready to plug him in somewhere, and you wanted to be ready

7:32

by having had reps in the minor leagues.

7:35

Joe, do you recall a situation where you had

7:37

someone come up from the minor leagues and just

7:39

it wasn't happening, whether you know it

7:41

wasn't ready for the big leagues, it was mental, physical,

7:43

whatever, And how

7:45

do you handle that between the manager and the

7:47

front office. That's a big decision. Personally,

7:51

I think it's a lot of blogning when people say

7:53

when you bring you up to the big leagues, you should be

7:55

there to stay. To me, there's nothing wrong

7:57

with having to go back down. It actually

8:00

can be really beneficial to a player. But

8:02

I'm wondering as a manager, you're handling,

8:04

you know, a young guy the big leagues for the first time,

8:07

and he's failing. That decision

8:09

to send him back down. How much of

8:11

that should be the manager, how much should be the front office.

8:14

Yeah, I mean, I do believe that when

8:16

you bring somebody up, you bring him up with the intention

8:19

a really a real player guy that

8:21

he's going to stay. You always bring him up with that intent.

8:23

You think he's ready. All the

8:25

bells and whistles, everybody's considering them in

8:27

order, and you think this guy is here to stay. So

8:30

I think that's part of the dialogue, and I'm not

8:32

opposed to that. But once he gets

8:34

there and things are not turning out, well,

8:38

it's a conversation between both

8:40

ends, I believe, because

8:42

the guys in the dugout in the clubhouse are

8:44

going to hear and see things that the people upstairs

8:46

are not. People upstairs are

8:48

not privy to those conversations, and just

8:51

like a look, I mean, I'm a big, big

8:54

thing about reading faces, and I believe in it. I'm

8:56

done it for long enough and I know and there's

8:58

a lot of other guys that'll tell you the same thing. So

9:00

you'll see a guy coming back and totally defeated,

9:03

look in his face, totally kind

9:05

of always walking with his head

9:07

down coming to the ballpark. There's no life you

9:10

talk to him conversationally. There's no confidence.

9:13

It's just it's just true. It just happens. So

9:16

I think it starts with the field people

9:18

on the field, and then it's of course

9:20

it's going to move to the people upstairs are going to be become

9:23

part of the conversation. However, there are sometimes

9:26

you might get impatience

9:28

from the front office, But with

9:30

the guy in the dugout, etc. You kind

9:33

of like, you kind of like what he looks like, You kind

9:35

of like what he's saying. You just think there's like, just

9:37

give a little bit more time, Give a little bit more time. It's

9:39

going to play. So it can work

9:41

both ways. I believe that I've seen that. I'm

9:44

trying to think of somebody specifically that

9:47

I felt we had to set back

9:49

down that we did not want to. I can't remember more

9:52

specifically with the Cubs or even more

9:54

recently with the Angels, guys

9:57

that we held onto and then and

10:00

didn't want to send back. I can't remember

10:02

that.

10:02

Did you have did you have Joe?

10:04

Yeah, you're right, I did, but yeah I would. But

10:06

I always thought he needed more time into minor leagues,

10:08

and never thought whenever we brought him up.

10:10

I didn't. I wasn't confident that he was going to be there

10:12

to stay. Quite frankly, where

10:15

Brandon Marsha I thought he was. That was a big conversation

10:18

that we had between those two guys back then,

10:21

and that was me then slicing

10:23

it as I got there. That was guys like

10:25

Marcel Latchman and others that had been there before.

10:28

My original impression was I love them both,

10:31

and you know, Joe's got a really high ceiling.

10:33

But Marcia I thought was a more polished

10:35

baseball player, and I thought he had a chance to

10:37

be there and stay there sooner than

10:39

Joe did. So that was part of my part,

10:43

part of the conversation when I spoke in

10:45

meetings, That's what I saw. And

10:47

eventually, of course Marsha gets traded

10:50

to the Phillies and then Joe still

10:52

going up and down a bit. So that

10:54

doesn't surprise me. That wasn't a surprise.

10:57

So sometimes sometimes I think

10:59

what does happen is front officers

11:01

will push a guy to get to the big league sooner because

11:04

quite frankly, I want to validate their scouting

11:07

department or somebody that they chose to bring

11:09

on board. It happens when

11:11

you bring somebody on board, when he's your baby,

11:14

when he's your highre whatever however you want to describe

11:16

it, You're going to be more tolerant, more patient,

11:18

and you want to see him there sooner to validate

11:21

the process that got him there. And it kind of looks

11:23

good just being honest. So

11:26

that happens, and I absolutely believe

11:28

it happens. I've seen it happen. So there's all

11:30

those little dynamics going on, all the little politics

11:32

that are involved in this too. I

11:34

just from my perspective, we've talked about it. I really

11:37

like to I want to believe I work from more of a

11:39

pure intentions. I have no skin

11:41

in the game. How much we paid it, when round he was

11:44

drafted, and where he came from, Do

11:46

I know anybody in his family whatever, I have nothing

11:48

of that. It's just like you look in eyeballs.

11:50

What am I seeing right here? Based on my

11:52

experiences, and I try to make my biased

11:55

opinion based on all of that. But

11:58

I'm here to tell you there's a lot of bias involved even

12:00

in opinion making and why somebody

12:02

is promoted to the big leagues rather than

12:04

later.

12:05

Well, I still think the best Baltimore Orioles

12:08

team and you will see this for most of this season,

12:10

has Jackson Holiday at second base and

12:12

Jordan Westberg at third base. Ramon

12:15

Orias is playing third base and just

12:17

I don't think he's enough of an offensive player to hold

12:20

down that position on an everyday basis.

12:22

But I think Jackson Holiday will be that

12:24

type of hitter. So

12:26

how long he stays down who knows

12:28

it. You know, it could be a matter of weeks, it could

12:30

be a matter of months. We don't know. He'll let us know when

12:33

he's ready, but I do think you're going to see

12:35

him be the everyday second baseman in the second half of

12:37

the season, at least for the Baltimore Orioles. My

12:40

question for you, Joe, when I look at the Orioles,

12:42

they remind me a lot of your twenty sixteen Cubs

12:44

team. These young players

12:47

who are hitting their prime early

12:49

so to speak. I love the athleticism, I love

12:51

the positional versatility. I

12:54

think they're starting pitching is better than people

12:56

think, especially with John Means and Bradish

12:58

coming back to the rotation. They're

13:01

prime to win. They've got the experience of last

13:04

year under their belt. This is not new to them. They have

13:06

expectations of winning. The problem

13:08

for the Baltimore Orioles and you actually

13:10

had this in sixteen Joe as well.

13:13

They need a legitimate closer to

13:15

run through rounds of the postseason. You're

13:18

not getting there with Craig Kimberll. He's got a little

13:20

bit of a back issue here. He's just his

13:22

ability to throw strikes is too often

13:24

in question. He's given

13:26

it up a couple of times recently. That could

13:28

be back related, we don't know. But they

13:31

need a surer thing. And you made

13:33

that the Cubs and THEO made that move to get

13:35

a rold As Chapman on that sixteen team when

13:37

you were just running away with things at that point,

13:39

but knowing to finish off the team, he needed somebody

13:42

to back end. I think the Baltimore Orioles,

13:44

with all of their great young

13:46

position players, are going to have the trade

13:49

from that depth to go

13:51

get a legit closer if

13:53

they want to win the World Series.

13:55

That sound, yeah, we did

13:57

need Chappie to do all that. I remember

13:59

when he came on board. I think it was against Seattle,

14:02

first game or something at Wrigley.

14:05

When you when you when somebody like that arrives

14:07

on the scene. It definitely does bring

14:10

some more life into the clubhouse. There's a it's

14:12

definitely felt and it

14:14

does matter, does make a difference from a manager's

14:17

perspective. When you do have the anchor

14:19

at the end, it then permits you to utilize

14:21

your bullpen differently as you work through

14:23

the first eight innings when you get to

14:25

the playoffs. I prefer doing when you

14:27

get to the playoffs more more often than not, and

14:30

that's when you might get four outside of the sky or five

14:32

outs. Of course, have done more than that once you've gotten

14:34

to the playoffs. So yeah, when you

14:37

when you have the guy this is this is Tom

14:39

Perducci's my ninth Inny Guy, then

14:41

the first eight innings become completely different

14:43

in regards to how I could work my way through this

14:46

knowing that that when inning is taken care

14:48

of, so it's it's might not sound

14:50

like a whole lot. And I know there's a lot of analytical

14:52

people that will say that it's another three

14:55

outs. It is,

14:57

but I'll tell you what it's different. Three outs.

14:59

It's uh, the offense ramps it

15:01

up a bit, and from your perspective, you're

15:03

doing it every day. It's something every day with

15:06

perfection is the benchmark. It's not

15:08

about being you know, it's

15:10

not like horse shoes coming close once in a while. It's

15:12

you've got to be perfect in this particular job

15:15

and that there's a mindset

15:17

that really is necessary to

15:19

handle all this. And the

15:22

biggest part is when you're going to fail, how

15:24

does how does this guy react to failure? How does he

15:26

when he blows one? What does he do? And how does he react?

15:28

And does? That's where real, significantly

15:31

good closers separate themselves.

15:33

So it is a difference maker. And

15:37

I agree with you. I think that's exactly what's going to happen.

15:39

And sometimes you do have to give it up. And

15:41

I know, like I know, THEO

15:44

proclaimed he pushed all the chips into the middle

15:46

of the table we're in, and with that

15:48

you've got to make a move or give some people up you don't

15:50

normally want to. At some point, Baltimore

15:53

has to do that because you know, theory,

15:55

reality is one thing. Actually winning a World Series

15:57

is something else, and you got to give something up

15:59

to get something in return. So in

16:02

order to get there, they're probably gonna have to do that. At

16:04

some point.

16:05

Yeah, that's well said, because I remember THEO

16:07

at that time saying, and I love the line.

16:10

If not now, when right, right, you

16:12

had the best record in the league, the team had

16:14

won the World Series more than one hundred years. Yeah,

16:17

you're going to trade a guy like Labor Torres and six

16:20

years of control. He's going to make All Star teams,

16:22

he's going to hit thirty home runs. It's a high price

16:24

to pay. But again,

16:27

if not now, when, if you're the Baltimore Orioles,

16:29

if not now, when you have a team that is

16:31

World Series capable. You haven't been there in

16:33

forever, and you

16:35

have, whether it's Kobe Mayo or

16:38

Heston kurst Ed or Colton

16:40

Cawser, You've got some duplication

16:43

in your system and these young position players,

16:46

so you have the depth to trade. And yes,

16:48

it's going to hurt, but it should hurt if you're

16:50

trying to win the World Series.

16:52

Let's putting on that too. I'm here to say we don't

16:54

win that without raw this. We just don't.

16:56

I mean, our bullpen guys got

16:58

hurt. At the end of the year. Some guys won as good as they

17:00

had been, and we were relying on some

17:03

young folks with

17:05

Montgomery and it

17:08

was one of my tall, skinny guy's name. Again,

17:10

I ge't remember right off the top of my head. Carl

17:13

Edwards, Carl Edwards Junior. Thank you. I'm sorry,

17:16

Carl, if you're listening. But we're relying

17:18

on a lot of young guys right there. And

17:20

and I know people have made accusations

17:22

that I used them too long or too much, but that was the

17:24

only way to win that thing was to rely

17:27

on a roll this because he was the difference

17:29

maker for us. He got the big outs, and

17:31

without him there, the Cubs have not won

17:33

a World Series since, like you know, eight.

17:35

We're going to take a quick break here on the

17:37

Book of Joe Podcasts, and when we get

17:39

back, I want to talk about how, if you haven't

17:41

noticed this, the Boston Red

17:44

Sox are changing the game

17:46

of baseball.

17:47

We'll talk about that next, all.

18:00

Right, Joe, I don't know if you paid attention to the Boston

18:02

Red Sox. Of course, they hired Craig Breslo

18:04

as their chief baseball officer,

18:07

and they brought in Andrew Bailey as their

18:09

pitching coach, and they are bringing

18:11

an entirely different model

18:14

to how to pitch in the big leagues. The

18:16

Boston Red Sox pitching staff are throwing

18:18

fewer fastballs than any staff

18:21

in the recorded history of Major League Baseball.

18:24

They are down to about thirty percent.

18:26

I'm not talking about cutters. I'm talking about four

18:29

seamers and sinkers. And

18:31

what's happened is they have boosted

18:33

their number of sweepers to the second

18:35

most in baseball, their number

18:37

of cutters to the most in baseballs. Their

18:40

four steamers are down fifteen

18:43

percent from last year. Last

18:45

year they were probably in the middle of the pack, right around

18:47

major league gaverage. As you know, fastballs

18:50

used to be the bread and butter at pitching, right that's

18:52

your primary pitch, establish your fastball,

18:54

work off your fastball. Well, about

18:57

three years ago, fastballs fell below fifty

18:59

percent for the first time in recorded

19:01

history, and it continues to go down

19:04

down again this year. But the Red Sox

19:06

are taking it to an entirely

19:08

different level. And

19:11

again, they were about league average last

19:13

year and Breslo and Bailey get in and

19:16

you know, they've taken it to a whole new level

19:18

here. So it's working. They

19:20

have the best dra in baseball. So

19:22

you know how baseball works, Joe. It's like

19:25

the NFL as well, they say, is a copycat

19:27

league. Somebody has success and you want

19:29

people want to copy it. Red Sox are having

19:31

success throwing very few fastballs.

19:34

So I'm wondering what your take is here, whether

19:37

this is just a fad or we're

19:39

going to see this spread around the game.

19:41

Well, I mean, velocity has been it maybe I don't

19:43

even know if they somehow believe it's

19:45

a combination of throwing more breaking balls

19:47

and the fact that you have less likelihood of injury.

19:49

I mean, because we just had our guests on recently

19:52

talking about it's not only trying

19:54

to chase velocity, but it's always it's

19:56

also chasing a lot of breaking balls

19:59

and the sweeper. And I

20:01

think the sweeper was mentioned in that particular episode

20:04

two. So I don't know. I don't

20:07

have an answer for that. It's

20:09

another fatish kind of a thing, I think, because

20:12

wait for the hitters to make the adjustment. Let's see what happens

20:15

as we move this thing through and furthermore, the attrition

20:17

rate of their pitching stuff. I don't know. I

20:19

don't know enough yet, but I also

20:22

know that really a good wealth placed

20:24

fastball is still very difficult to hit again.

20:28

I'd like to know maybe their equation has

20:30

something to do with the injury problem, and

20:33

by throwing less fastballs and not chasing velocity

20:35

as much, they believe we're less

20:37

likely to be hurt. There's more

20:39

to it. I know Craig and he's

20:41

he's a very bright young man. I've had Andrew

20:44

around a bit too, and I know he's

20:46

very inquisitive. Also, this

20:48

is one thing I think requires more time and

20:50

more than anything. And you're right though,

20:53

I trust you. I trust me it's right. If

20:56

it in fact shows to be somewhat productive,

20:59

you're gonna see everybody chase, and

21:01

everybody because that's how our league

21:03

works, everybody chases with the flavor

21:06

of the month. Is my guess would

21:08

be it's going to level out. I would like to think,

21:11

or I believe that maybe the next time through. Are

21:13

they going to go more to the fastball. I don't know, because

21:15

they're going to see like hitters making adjustments

21:17

to it. I've always believed you could throw too many

21:19

breaking balls, you're going to start hanging and they're going to start getting

21:22

banged, because primarily your teach

21:24

hitters to look for fastball first

21:26

and then adjust down to the off speech

21:28

stuff. So maybe it might be a philosophical

21:30

change on how you approach them when you face the Red

21:32

Sox. Yeah, I would just wait and see.

21:34

I'm not totally convinced yet.

21:36

Yeah, listen, it's only a month of the season. I

21:38

get it. And one thing to keep an

21:40

eye on is as well as the Red Sox

21:42

have pitched, they do not have

21:45

pitchers who have a lot

21:47

of innings under their belt.

21:49

I'm talking about one hundred and sixty one hundred and seventy

21:51

innings that you know. They just don't

21:53

have pictures who've gotten to that level. So

21:56

at some point, assuming they stay healthy,

21:58

you know, the Tanner Hawks and the

22:00

Cutter Crawfords and the Garrett Whitlocks are

22:02

going to get to a point of uncharted

22:05

territories. So that alone will

22:07

be a factor in the second half of the season. But

22:11

I you know, Cutter Crawford is now

22:13

one of the best pitchers in baseball, and he's

22:15

going to throw a fastball thirty percent of the time.

22:18

That's it. He's really

22:20

boosted his sweeper percentage. And to me,

22:22

Joe, it's it's really data driven

22:24

more than anything. Else. Maybe there's some health issues

22:26

here, but an elite

22:28

fastball is actually easier

22:31

to hit than an average breaking ball.

22:33

Think about that. An elite fastball I'm talking

22:35

about upper nineties is easier to hit

22:38

than an average breaking ball. The

22:41

overall average on four seamers

22:43

is two forty four. That's slightly

22:45

above the major league gaverage in April,

22:48

which is only two forty one. We can talk about

22:50

that in a minute. So two forty

22:52

four against four steamers. Against sweepers,

22:55

it's two oh nine. So if

22:57

you follow the data, you'll

22:59

just say, well, throw more sweepers, throw

23:01

fewer four seamers. That's

23:03

what the Red side doing. And I agree

23:05

with you it's a little too early to call it a

23:07

success. But from one month into

23:09

this season, the Red Sox

23:11

to me, are challenged offensively, are

23:14

hanging in there because they

23:16

are taking the idea of pitching backward

23:18

to a whole new extreme.

23:20

Yeah again, it is different. As

23:22

a hitter, you've been training yourself to

23:25

approach this at back differently to

23:27

the point where it's hard. Sometimes

23:29

it looks soft because when you're looking soft,

23:31

I've always felt this, if you're looking something soft,

23:34

beating a breaking ball, and a pitcher

23:36

throws you a fastball, there's really very

23:38

little chance to hit that ball well. But

23:40

if you're thinking fastball, thinking hard, and

23:42

he happens to throw something soft, breaking ball,

23:45

you could adjust down and do something with

23:47

it. That's always been part of it.

23:49

So I think right now, if they're throwing just all

23:51

breaking balls, I mean they might adjust down

23:53

to the point where they're saying the heck with the fastball, even

23:55

though I'm laid on it, I'm just going to make my

23:57

adjustment down. Time it up. Maybe you're

23:59

going to see higher lay kicks. Maybe you're going to see

24:02

something different that's going to permit the to

24:04

stay back longer or see it forte click

24:06

longer, more acceptance.

24:09

And again, where is it that the sweepers know me away? Right?

24:11

We're down and into a lefty down in a way to a writing

24:14

something to that effect, that's going to be how you're going to adjust

24:16

your vision. They'll talk about

24:18

it a lot and way. I think

24:20

players today are willing to follow the data

24:23

to the to the extent that going into a series,

24:26

all you need is one or two teams in a row to make

24:28

an adjustment to teach the next group

24:30

how to do this and they will so again,

24:33

I just think it's early to be normally

24:35

like what wasn't just an issue in the past. We I think we

24:37

talked about it in the playoffs. I remember with

24:39

the Cubs we saw way more breaking ball, I thought,

24:41

in the postseason than we saw

24:44

during the season, which then resulted in us hitting

24:46

less in the postseason. Maybe it's just to

24:48

carry over into the season and seeing if you could do it

24:50

all year and if your arms could hold

24:52

up to it. Do you have enough arms? Like you're saying pictures

24:54

that haven't thrown enough innings? Wow, there's

24:57

so much going on there. Man. I would

24:59

just play it on out and then just try

25:01

to sift through it as we move through this

25:04

season. But I'm curious if the next time

25:06

through all these teams that are seeing the Red

25:08

Sox were the first time, if in fact

25:10

they're able to make an adjustment the second time they

25:13

see this team.

25:14

Yeah, well see. I mean I will say

25:16

that, especially with Cutter Crawford, most of these

25:18

Red Sox pitchers, they do not pitch

25:20

to patterns at all. Cutter Crawford, he's

25:23

got like five different pitches. Is throw a split,

25:25

he throw a sinker, occasional forced seamer.

25:28

He's got the sweeper. He

25:30

actually reminds me of you, Darbish,

25:32

with the way he can spin the baseball

25:34

and stay out of patterns. You know, sometimes

25:36

with you Darbish, you think, you know he's

25:38

got too many weapons and he doesn't attack

25:41

enough. But Cutter Crawford does

25:43

a great job of mixing his pitches and

25:45

staying out of patterns. And I think when we

25:47

talk about the Red Sox going to more

25:49

non fastballs, they

25:52

have a variety of pitches. So and

25:55

by the way, the only two guys I've ever known who could

25:57

sit soft and react to fastballs,

26:00

Bryce Harper and Don Mattingly. Both

26:02

of them told me there were times where they set soft

26:04

and still could hit a fastball. I mean that's freakish,

26:07

Yeah, it is.

26:08

I mean the best way I could describe it

26:10

to people listening. If you're a catcher, which I was,

26:13

and as let's say there's a run around second base, we used

26:15

to roll our signs, and so if you

26:17

put down which you perceived to be a you

26:20

put the fastball signed down. But the pitcher somehow

26:22

saw something breaking ball, whether

26:24

the slider, curveball or change up. He

26:26

goes in and throws at your minds thinking, here comes a fastball,

26:29

and he throws something soft. Here, you're able to react

26:31

to it as a catch. You could knock it down, you could catch, you could

26:33

make an adjustment. Okay, we're okay.

26:35

But if you put down something soft, whether it's

26:37

a curveball, slider, or even a change

26:40

up, and he saw a fastball, that's

26:42

when umpires got hit because it's really hard

26:44

to react mentally and get your glove

26:46

of mient time to actually catch the fastball thinking

26:49

something soft. And that's why I've always I

26:51

think Gary Guyatty told me the same thing one time. Gary

26:53

was able to sit soft and hit hard.

26:55

But that's it. I mean, that was the way I've

26:57

described it the hitters in the past to try to get them

27:00

to always say keep your fastball,

27:02

hack, load it, and adjust down. Man,

27:04

it's somebody that's just breaking ball, breaking ball, breaking

27:07

ball, then you might want to try something

27:09

differently. But that's for

27:11

those just think about it. For the baseball people

27:13

listening. As a catcher, especially

27:16

when you're expecting something

27:18

hard and it's soft, I'm okay, But opposite,

27:21

that's when somebody gets hurt.

27:23

Well, I do think in general, we talk a lot about

27:25

velocity, but the rise of the sweeper and

27:28

the adoption of the cutter as a

27:30

fastball replacement really made

27:32

hitting extremely hard. And

27:34

I know the rules last year were designed to create

27:36

more action and less time, and overall did

27:38

that, but man, the hitting environment

27:41

is so tough these days. Joe,

27:43

the lowest April batting average in

27:45

Major League Baseball since the mound was lowered in nineteen

27:47

sixty nine. The three lowests

27:50

have happened in the last four years, twenty

27:53

twenty one, twenty twenty two, and this year twenty

27:55

twenty four, where it's two forty one. It's

27:58

down six points from last year. Slugging

28:00

is down eighteen points from April

28:02

of last year. It's the second

28:04

lowest in April in the Wildcard era. Hits

28:07

per game is tracking to be the

28:09

lowest in a full season since nineteen

28:12

sixty eight. So as much

28:14

as I and I love the rule changes to improve

28:17

the pace of action, on just pace of game,

28:19

but man, the hitting environment right now is

28:22

just so hard.

28:23

Well that's with regardless of the team you're on,

28:26

everybody wants to pitch away from slug right,

28:28

I mean, that was the big thing, even back in the day with the cubbies.

28:31

And so when the pitches you're talking about are

28:34

really designed to make the plate

28:36

wider. You're put this a lot

28:38

of east to west going on. There, this slider,

28:41

the cutter, and then of course the sweeper

28:44

by expanding the plate making it a wider plates,

28:47

that's what we're talking about. And I think with that you

28:49

are always trying to attempting to pitch

28:51

away from slug velocity. The

28:54

last couple of years, I don't know how many years we're talking about,

28:57

but the elevated velocity fastball was a big

28:59

part of it. You know, when

29:01

it was at the top there we're swinging underneath it all all

29:04

because he's trying to lift the ball. Adjustments

29:06

are being made, even to the point

29:09

more recently, who am I volpe

29:12

with the And that's in one year. The kid from

29:15

last year didn't like to swing at all and

29:17

really was a lot of lift in it. Now all of a sudden, it's not

29:20

so within one year he's learned how to handle

29:22

the elevated velocity fastball. It's evolution,

29:25

man, These guys have seen so much of it. It's not

29:27

become as effective as when

29:29

they first came on the scene kind of talking into

29:31

the Red Sox situation. Now we're

29:33

working about a wider east west

29:35

plate and staying away from slut,

29:37

and that also includes the back door breaking ball.

29:40

See, it's not just about the ball moving away

29:42

from you. When you can make the plate

29:44

larger by hitting the back to the

29:46

outside edge with this breaking ball, that starts

29:48

as a ball ball and becomes a strike,

29:51

that really makes things

29:53

problematic right there. Giants

29:55

a couple of years ago is very popular to do the

29:58

back door cutter slider. We're getting a lot

30:00

of called strikes with that, and again making the

30:02

plate wider, and Andrew was a part of that, I believe

30:04

Bailey while he was there. So it's about

30:07

that seventeen inches whatever they're trying to make it

30:09

into nineteen twenty twenty one inches wide.

30:11

And with that, let's stay off slug. Okay,

30:14

the ball's gonna be put in play, not as hard or

30:16

if it is hit somewhat decently, it's not going over

30:18

the wall. And that's a big part of their philosophy

30:20

I believe too.

30:21

Yeah, I like the way you put that. Staying away from

30:23

slug, it's definitely the driving force

30:26

and that includes now pe

30:29

pitchers do not mind the walk, and

30:31

walks are going up, and that's why you

30:33

see three two three one

30:36

sweepers and cutters. Nobody's

30:38

giving in the idea is, well,

30:40

you know what, I don't mind walking a guy

30:43

because I'm staying away from the home run and

30:45

I can try for the swing and miss on the next guy. I

30:47

see that happen all the time, even at

30:49

the bottom of the lineup. So

30:52

the walk, now, you know, used

30:54

to say joe with a manager. It used to

30:56

drive managers crazy, right, I

30:58

think there's maybe it's too hard to

31:00

say, or too I'm going too far to say it's

31:02

accepted. But it's definitely accepted

31:05

more than it used to be.

31:06

Well, when it's intentional, you know, it's like, you

31:09

know, if a guy's just wild, that's one thing. If a guy can't throw

31:11

a strike when he want major league pitcher should be able to throw

31:13

a strike when he wants to. That should be the

31:15

definition of a major league pitcher. So maybe

31:17

he doesn't want to, you know, it's

31:19

a strike ball kind of a pitch that they're looking

31:22

they get the chase, or oh well when

31:24

move on to the next hitter. So philosophically,

31:27

what are we trying to do here? Are we trying

31:29

to throw a strike? If you are and you can't,

31:31

that's a problem. But if you're trying to throw

31:33

a strike ball and you're succeeding,

31:35

that's okay. So I think it comes

31:38

down to understanding which

31:40

we're trying to get done here. From

31:42

a manager's perspective, there's

31:44

a conversation before the game, or you're being clued

31:46

in by your pitching coach before the

31:49

game. They know what we're trying to get done here today, and

31:51

overwatching philosophy of the organization in general.

31:54

Mattie Moore for years, Mattie Moe would walk

31:56

people a lot. He's a little bit

31:58

better right now, but a lot better actually,

32:00

But we never really were worried about it because

32:02

even if you walk the cup guys, to

32:05

get to square them up and drive those runs in was

32:07

an issue. So it's philosophical

32:10

and it's built in what do we want?

32:12

But at the end of the day, as a major league manager,

32:15

I want my major league pitchers to be able

32:17

to throw a strike when they want to, want them to be able

32:19

to shape a ball becoming a strike or

32:21

a strike becoming a ball and that's a big

32:23

part of what's going on today.

32:25

Hey, Joe, did you pay attention at all to the NFL

32:27

Draft?

32:28

I know I did not.

32:30

Sorry, there's a story I saw

32:32

reminded me of you. We need to talk about

32:34

this. It involves Brad Holmes. He's the GM

32:37

of the Detroit Lions. You know, they

32:39

went to the NFC championship game last year.

32:42

Last year in the draft, in his first

32:44

four picks and it was in the top forty five overall,

32:47

he took a running back, a linebacker,

32:49

a tight end, and a defensive back. And

32:54

the draft people I'm talking

32:56

about the critics, ripped him

32:58

for not picking what they call

33:01

positional value. In other words,

33:03

in the NFL, it's about the quarterback first

33:05

of all, it's about an edge rusher, and it's about a tackle

33:07

to protect a quarterback. So the

33:09

analytics people put value on

33:12

positions rather than players.

33:15

NFL, the Tigers go to the NFC

33:17

championship game. His picks

33:20

all turned out really well. So the same

33:22

thing happened again with Detroit. And

33:25

he had some great lines here because

33:27

he got ripped for not picking positions

33:31

rather than players. And he

33:33

said, when I got tipped on what positional

33:36

value was last year, I didn't

33:38

even know what it was. It

33:40

was just like a new analytic. As

33:42

I thought about it, I was like, positional

33:45

value, so you pick a position,

33:48

not a player. I was thinking,

33:50

No, we're looking for football players.

33:54

Did you win the draft because you drafted those

33:56

positions? We're trying to draft

33:58

football players that make us a better football

34:01

team.

34:02

Huge fan. I've never even heard huge

34:04

fan. I mean, oh my god. If

34:07

you just start basing it based on position,

34:10

and you're going to avoid a

34:12

player that you research and you like

34:14

him, you like his skills, you like how

34:16

he's going to fit into my group organization,

34:18

into the clubhouse, et cetera, et cetera. Over

34:22

drafting up position, it is a little

34:24

bit funny. Actually, and again

34:26

that that does sound analytically inclined.

34:29

I'm so happy that he said he never heard about

34:31

it. That really I am. I

34:34

am now, Well, first of all, I love their skipperor

34:36

cambell. I think he's outstanding. So

34:38

now I'm officially, from this moment forward,

34:41

an official my secondary

34:43

team. Well, the secondary team is kind

34:45

of the Jets. I mean, I'm a Cardinal Fan born

34:48

and bred, and of course my Buccaneers. But

34:50

let's go Jets. And now that the Lions

34:52

are on my radar

34:55

on a weekly basis, I'm serious, I'm going to start

34:57

reading more and more about him because I think that's beautiful.

35:00

I'm with you. I love the fact that he wasn't

35:02

even aware of such a thing existed.

35:04

Oh my god, that's great. I

35:07

love Hey. I thought you love honesty though. I mean, yes,

35:10

some guys would have like glossed over it at that well,

35:12

you know, but no, he said, and I've never heard of it.

35:14

Yeah, I love that, and that is

35:16

press conference. This is great. He actually

35:18

wore a sweatshirt with the words positional

35:21

villain on it.

35:24

He is. I'm

35:26

went, I went over, thank you, I went over.

35:29

Hey.

35:29

I promise you. We're gonna play a game show and

35:32

it involves the Hall of Fame. We're gonna do that right

35:34

after this. We'll see how good Joe is on the Hall of

35:36

Fame. Okay,

35:49

Joe, it's time to play a Hall of Fame game

35:51

show here. But there's a twist to this. We're

35:54

not talking about the Baseball Hall of Fame.

35:57

We're talking about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The

36:01

new inductees were announced this past

36:03

week, and we've

36:06

got some interesting names here. I think Foreigner

36:09

is in for the first time. How about that you have Foreigner

36:11

fan?

36:12

Yeah? I listened to them, you know, but I don't

36:14

seek them out right.

36:15

Okay, But what

36:17

I want to do is, uh, by the way,

36:19

Peter Frampton, you got to be a Peter Frampton

36:22

fan, right, I'm.

36:23

Okay, I mean not one of those guys. I

36:25

mean that that the song that he Wang

36:27

Wang Wang's you know, the different.

36:29

Yeah, what do they call that? Something pedal? Yeah?

36:32

Yeah, whatever that was. Everybody was going

36:35

nuts over and every time I hear it now in the radio, I

36:37

advance it. I really, I've

36:39

heard enough of that. All right.

36:40

Cool in the Gang okay with them and being.

36:42

A rock yeah yeah,

36:44

I love Cooling the Gang. Yeah. Right.

36:46

So there were eight new editions. But what I want

36:48

to do is give you some names of artists

36:50

and you tell me whether they're in the Hall of Fame

36:53

or not. Oh wow, okay, sure,

36:56

all right, let's start with Sticks.

36:59

I'm trying to get right in your wheelhouse to some

37:01

of these seventies and eighties rock and roll bands.

37:03

Stick Sticks Sticks more recently was

37:05

in the Hall of Fame. Correct, No, they're not in, but

37:08

they were being sought to be in the Hall of Fame.

37:10

Yes, they might have been nominated. Okay, okay,

37:12

how about Duran Duran God,

37:17

I think they are in the Hall of Fame or

37:19

not.

37:19

I think I think they are. They are.

37:21

It's a good call.

37:22

Yeah, I think I think they are.

37:23

Graham Parsons, I don't

37:26

even know.

37:26

I mean, I'm the I'm the.

37:29

Parsons right now. All right,

37:31

let's get back into your wheelhouse, then, bad

37:34

Company. That's not your wheelhouse,

37:36

bad Company.

37:38

Brother, I am so, I'm

37:40

honest to God, I'm not sure that would be an absolute

37:43

guess. And I'm saying no, you're correct

37:45

saying no.

37:46

Steppenwolf.

37:48

I love Steppenwolf, now there. I

37:50

love Steppenwolf. Born to Be Wild that was

37:52

like my that was my thing back in the day.

37:55

You know, Uh, they're not in, but they

37:57

but I love the song.

37:58

They are in. Really Born to Be

38:00

Wild alone gets them in in my book. Okay,

38:03

okay, all right. How about the Canadian band

38:05

Bachman Turner Overdrive b BTO.

38:08

I love bt O. They should

38:10

be, yes, but they're not. They're

38:12

not.

38:12

Okay, yeah, yeah, this was

38:15

one of my favorites in college, the

38:17

Jay Giles band.

38:19

Yes, Jay Oiles played in Hazeltons

38:21

Got Lost. We were they were at the

38:23

right They were at Saint Jose Jim I

38:27

can't remember who they were. Black Oak, Arkansas

38:29

and Jay Giles were at the Saint Jose gym

38:31

right down here off of Wyoming

38:34

Street. And my buddy we used to Tommy Cassette,

38:36

we called him Minora. Ripped off the back door of

38:38

the Saint Joe's gym. We got in for free. I

38:41

can't remember the year it was, but Jay

38:43

Giles was in.

38:44

Not in, not in shooting, not in.

38:46

But we got into Jay Giles because we took the door

38:48

off.

38:51

Uh. Cheap trick.

38:54

Love cheap trick. Remember cheap trick?

38:56

T Lee? T Lee and I Terry League.

38:58

That was in nineteen seventy nine.

39:00

They were big.

39:01

I love cheap trick. We were playing for

39:04

the Bakersfield Outlaws. I was

39:06

out of organization, out of a particular

39:09

organization. I was just independent ball at that time

39:12

in the Cal League. And they used to go down to T Lee's

39:14

house in Pismo

39:16

Beach area, San Luis Obispo. And

39:19

t Lee was a big cheap trick guy, cheap

39:21

trick, and so I got into cheap trick and

39:23

they got to be in. I love cheap trick. They're in. They're

39:26

outstanding. Yes, love cheap trick.

39:29

Here.

39:29

This got probably another one of your favorites. Deep

39:31

purple.

39:32

It's my car, am I twenty

39:34

sixteen, twenty sixteen hellcat

39:38

as plumb crazy with the

39:40

black stripes down with the

39:42

six speed trimming transmission. I'll

39:44

tell you what not only fast, one of the best cars

39:47

on the road, just built well. So yeah,

39:49

I'm gonna go deep purple and just based on the color of

39:51

my car.

39:51

Good call, good call.

39:53

They're in.

39:53

Yeah, yeah, meat Loaf.

39:56

That's when that's another wheelhouse. Meat

39:59

Loaf two out of three ain't bad. Every time we want

40:01

a series two out of three, I would say

40:03

we meet low them. Rocky

40:05

Heart Picture Show was huge when

40:07

I was uh living in Salinas. There

40:10

was at the theater, the theater

40:12

in downtown Monterey. Everybody

40:14

sat on a pillow. I think it came on at midnight. I don't

40:16

even know how many days in Row played. I

40:20

loved Me. I loved Me. I thought really

40:22

underrated musically, Lyrically, I'm

40:25

saying yes.

40:26

They're not in. Can you believe they

40:29

amazing? Yeah? I don't

40:31

love is not in the rock and roll.

40:33

Hall passion passion.

40:34

Oh my god, the guy was great musicians, I

40:37

believe.

40:37

Yeah, yeah, all.

40:38

Right, how about Grand

40:41

Funk Railroad.

40:42

There you go, uh captain, I'm

40:45

your captain from Lafayette College.

40:47

Three dudes making all that sound? Yeah,

40:50

I was, Oh god, I love

40:52

Grand Funk Railroad. That was a big part of Lofayette.

40:55

Mark Belly, one of my roomies down

40:57

there, really was into them too. I gotta say, yes,

40:59

they got to be it. I love Grand Funk, they are not in.

41:01

Say we're going to get him in somehow.

41:03

Got to get him in. Robert

41:05

Palmer.

41:06

Yes, how about that video? Right? Oh,

41:09

groundbreaking, that's when that's

41:12

when videos are coming out, and he nailed

41:14

it with that. I just think on that video

41:17

alone, Robert Palmer's got to be in the rock

41:19

and Roll Hall of Fame.

41:20

Should be, but he's not.

41:21

At least the girls should be.

41:23

Oh my god, all right,

41:25

we'll do two more here.

41:26

I'm really bad at this game, but I'm enjoying

41:28

it.

41:29

The go Gos love her.

41:31

Pull in the Carlisle. I had a chance to

41:34

catch the first pitch from her really

41:36

at the TRUP one time. Yeah, I don't

41:38

know what I did or couldn't get

41:40

there, where was whatever, but the

41:43

t with the race. They

41:45

were in town there somehow and she

41:48

was there and I thought

41:50

she was pretty attractive growing up.

41:53

I want them to be in so badly. Yes,

41:56

yeah, they're in.

41:56

Good call Okay, yeah, yeah.

41:59

One of my faves the B fifty two.

42:02

Yes, be fifty two's

42:04

that was love the Beef. I do love,

42:07

but I don't think they're in. But I love them.

42:08

Yeah, you nail that one. We

42:11

love them, but they're not in. That's a lot

42:13

of bands we got to get into the Hall of Fame.

42:15

Joe Dude. That was really you

42:19

know again, if you just go on your own taste

42:21

buds. So do

42:23

we say Peter Frampton was in or not in?

42:25

Yeah, he's in this year's class twenty

42:27

twenty four.

42:27

Okay, in this your class? Yeah, I did they know. I was

42:29

listening. I heard that recently. You're right, but no,

42:32

I just I just it's probably a

42:34

great guy. I think he's a great I probably have enjoy

42:37

having a beer with him, But I just the music

42:39

wise, I just it's not one of those

42:41

things that I would put on and want to listen to like over

42:43

and over again. Uh, the universal

42:46

sound wasn't there for

42:48

me. So that's that's where I

42:50

dropped off on him.

42:51

By the way he's going in with Share

42:54

and this is really in.

42:55

That's that's real, that's real.

42:56

Oh yeah, Share claims,

42:58

and I don't doubt her that in each

43:01

of the last seven decades

43:04

she has had a number one song, either

43:06

on her own or with of course with

43:08

Sonny Sonny and Shrif. Seven decades

43:11

really. So she went on the Kelly

43:14

Clarkson Show last December and

43:16

Kelly Clarkson couldn't believe that she was not yet

43:19

in the Hall of Fame. I mean, you

43:21

talk about an incredible career and

43:24

chare when Kelly Clarkson

43:26

says, are you serious you're not in the Hall of Fame, and she

43:28

says, I wouldn't be in it now if

43:31

they gave me a million dollars that

43:33

I did read that, I'm never going to

43:35

change my mind. They can just

43:38

go.

43:38

Ticket you know what themselves.

43:41

How about that? So now we got some drama

43:43

whether Share actually shows up at the Rock and Roll

43:45

Hall of Fame when she's inducted this year.

43:47

That makes me like her even more. I swear it does.

43:49

I mean I've always been a fan, always

43:52

loved their stuff, the Sonny and Share stuff,

43:54

I Got You Babe in the sixties,

43:56

man, that was you know, it's all the visceral

43:59

component of music when you were younger, because how

44:01

did it make you feel? So when the song comes on, it

44:04

just in the case to me a good time in my life. When I

44:06

hear the Sonny and Share stuff and especially

44:09

I Got You Babe, I've been a fan forever.

44:11

I'm with her. Don't show up, don't

44:14

let them induct you and send somebody

44:16

else, or have them appoint somebody to accept

44:19

the A word for you. I'm on board with Share.

44:21

I think she's great.

44:23

Music is amazing, isn't it, Joe. I mean,

44:25

it can make you feel a certain way, the

44:27

way a site or a sound

44:29

can just the song in

44:32

your head. And sometimes I'm sure this happens

44:34

to you, Joe. You hear a song that you haven't heard

44:37

of in so long I'm talking

44:39

years, maybe decades, and the lyrics

44:42

come back to you immediately, right. It's

44:44

just fascinating the way it just wraps

44:46

around your brain.

44:47

And again the short, long and short term memory.

44:49

More like the newer songs. I mean, there are

44:52

newer songs that I will like, but not to

44:54

the extent that the stuff that we grew

44:56

up with that's embedded, like you said in our

44:59

Minor Psyche and the visceral component.

45:01

I'm really big on that. I mean, because I didn't know words,

45:03

and I was a kid, I didn't listen well enough.

45:06

I mean I could go back to Satisfaction by the Stones,

45:08

and of course I knew the words to that, but

45:11

Simon and Garfuncle, they made a

45:13

a verbal impact on me. Words mattered

45:16

with Simon and Garfunkle. The

45:18

Halies a little bit, I love. I mean, I thought the Hollies

45:21

were very underrated. None

45:23

cool woman in a black dress. God, that's one of the best

45:25

beginnings of the song ever. But

45:28

then I be ain't heavy for my brother.

45:30

I mean stuff like that a combination

45:33

with some of them, with the lyrics and the sound. But primarily

45:35

in the sixties I thought it was more visceral, and

45:37

the seventies I became a little bit more intelligent

45:42

and was able to listen to words and process them. But

45:45

I mean the sound of the sixties to me, really,

45:48

I don't think there's a song. If I

45:50

hear it that I remember from back in the day,

45:52

always makes me feel good because it was such

45:55

I had such a wonderful time growing up

45:57

in this area in Pennsylvania.

45:59

Especially if you hear it again on vinyl,

46:01

right.

46:02

Oh my god, that I got it. I

46:04

got the vinyl women to set it up on this new

46:06

room's done. We're gonna have the vinyl, big,

46:08

big old speakers blaring out the back.

46:10

Man, I'm gonna have you come around

46:12

my place during the summertime. You're gonna hear my place

46:15

too. I love it.

46:17

I love it well, Joe. You always do

46:19

a great job taking us home and following

46:22

up by the way, you did really well on that, better

46:24

than I thought. It's so hard with the Rock and Roll

46:26

Hall of Fame because they've really diversified.

46:29

Obviously, it's not just rock and roll

46:31

in terms of the artistry that's going in there, so

46:33

it's not an easy call. I thought you did really well,

46:35

and you followed your

46:37

heart for the most part when it came to some of these bands.

46:40

I did nothing wrong with that.

46:41

I never And then

46:43

it speaks to our quote of the day, And actually

46:45

I guess the quote was designed for this and

46:48

of all people come from Ralph Waldo Emerson.

46:50

But I think to be yourself

46:53

in a world that is constantly trying to make

46:55

you something else is the greatest

46:57

accomplishment and share.

47:00

Oh right, g gez. She has always

47:02

been herself. All these all these rock

47:04

and roll icons, they've always been themselves.

47:07

I mean that was my

47:10

kind of my thought to myself as a kid growing

47:12

up that I was I was not

47:14

going to reform. How

47:16

do I can't remember exactly how I said this to myself.

47:19

Wish I could, But during the sixties

47:21

and the seventies, I wanted always to adhere

47:23

to what I believed in. My dad wanted me to

47:26

cut my hair. I did not want to cut my hair. You

47:28

know. They wanted me to dress a certain way, did not want

47:30

to dress a certain way. I wanted to dress the way I wanted

47:32

to dress. That's why I was so adamant

47:36

about when I became a major league manager, about

47:38

dress codes and who's why

47:41

is a collared shirt so more acceptable

47:43

than a non collared shirt? Why is polyester

47:45

pants better than jeans? I mean all these things. Really,

47:49

I was a non conformist and a conforming

47:51

society. That was my line to myself in

47:54

the seventies. And I wasn't, by any means any

47:57

kind of a rebel, I don't think, but maybe in certain

48:00

ways I was. But I definitely

48:03

always adhere to what I thought

48:05

was the right thing to do, regardless

48:08

of the popular opinion of the day. And I still

48:10

think that is true. So I think in some

48:12

ways, trying

48:14

to make to be yourself

48:17

in a word that is constantly trying to make you something else

48:19

from Ralph Waldo Emerson really resonated

48:21

for me, and I think I've always

48:23

applied that to myself and to

48:25

today's artists and athletes, and

48:28

to the GM of the Detroit Lions.

48:30

What's his name? One more time, Brad Holmes. Well

48:32

done, Brad, I can't wait to meet you.

48:34

Yeah, that's so well said, by the way. I love that

48:37

quote from Ralph Waldo, our buddy.

48:39

Yeah.

48:40

Yeah, Because I tell a young people,

48:42

especially all the time, when there's that pressure

48:44

to conform, right, you look around you and

48:46

you want to fit in rather

48:49

than honor your true self. If

48:51

you look around you want to be like the people

48:53

around you. That's a good way to become average,

48:57

you really will be average. If that's

48:59

what you want to be, then go ahead and conform. I

49:01

don't think any of us should be average, because there's a better

49:03

part within us. And it reminds

49:05

me of what Vince Scully once told me.

49:08

The best advice he had was early in his career,

49:10

and it came from Red Barber. I mean it was better than

49:12

Red Barber at that time, and

49:14

he talked about avoid trying to copy

49:16

other people's style because

49:18

when you do that, you water your own

49:21

wine. And it was a way of Red Barber telling

49:23

Vince Scully, you know, the best version

49:25

of you lies within you, it doesn't

49:27

lie within others. Can you learn from others, of

49:30

course you can, But in trying to copy

49:32

others and be others, you're going to miss out

49:34

on your true self. And so I love

49:36

that quote, Joe. I think it applies to really

49:39

anybody across the board, no matter what you do.

49:41

And organizations, right, I mean, you're

49:43

just we're just talking about that in another way. But

49:46

this copycat world, I don't quite understand

49:48

it. And a lot of the I think copycat

49:52

copy catedness is the residue

49:54

of really not going out there and suffering

49:57

through mistakes and having

49:59

to work for an opportunity and having

50:01

things just presented to you because you don't really

50:03

know what you think. You have to find out what you

50:05

think through trial and error. And I really believe

50:08

that. I believe things are handed out too

50:10

easily, things aren't necessarily

50:12

earned. And with that, there's

50:15

this group that needs

50:18

to look at somebody else in order to

50:20

find their way, whereas opposed to looking from

50:22

within. And that's the part to me

50:24

that this bothers him sometime, and

50:26

those that do, God do I

50:29

love that.

50:29

Yeah, that brings us back to Jackson holiday

50:32

failing the way he has for the first time. He'll

50:34

be a better player because of that.

50:35

I agreed.

50:37

That was fine, Joe. We'll see you next time.

50:39

Thanks brother.

50:50

The Book of Joe podcast is a production

50:52

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