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This message comes from NPR sponsor, Sony Pictures Classics presenting, Jim Broadbent and Helen Mirren in the Duke. The true story of the first and only theft the National Gallery in London. Now playing in theaters. This

0:14

This. fresh air. Terry, Gross. Stephen.

0:17

Merchant is best known for co-creating

0:19

with Ricky, Gervais. The incredibly

0:21

influential. British comedy. The office

0:23

Merchant has a new on Amazon

0:26

Prime called The Outlaws about

0:28

group of Misfits. And Bristol, England will

0:31

have to complete court, ordered community service,

0:33

our producer, Sam Burger

0:35

spoke with Stephen Merchant, last week here,

0:38

Sam and

0:41

Actor, Stephen Merchant, found inspiration for

0:43

his new show, The Outlaws. from

0:45

his parents who supervised people's sense

0:47

of community service for more minor criminal

0:49

offenses. He also said the

0:51

shown his home town of Bristol, England.

0:54

Merchant play the hapless recently divorced

0:56

lawyer caught by police in his car with

0:58

a sex worker among. the other

1:01

outlaws is outlaws small time criminal played

1:03

by the always great christopher walken Richard

1:06

Coke created the show with elgin James

1:08

and it's been picked up for second season. Along

1:11

with the office Stephen Merchant Coke created with

1:13

Ricky Gervais to show extras and had

1:15

his own H. B. A. series "Hello Ladies"

1:19

You can also be seen playing mutant superhero

1:21

in the movie "Logan" and gestapo agent

1:23

and Jojo Rabbit. Let's

1:25

start with the scenes on the new show. Here,

1:28

the six out loss of shown up for the first day

1:30

of community service and are meeting their supervisor,

1:32

Diane Play by Jessica Dandy. The

1:35

second voice in here is Stephen Merchant.

1:39

Source:

1:40

The community payback is,

1:43

an easy option. a soft

1:45

touch The research.

1:48

The A.

1:50

We pay your debt to society I

1:52

work in the number of hours Monday is

1:54

by the course my, name is

1:56

I'm humbly. we supervisors

2:00

The good guy.

2:02

Or and mean that shirt?

2:04

Your choice to. try things

2:06

he says he said he was artworks with the

2:08

fucker speech was entirely clear he's

2:11

clear homemaker murmur If

2:13

you know. Are your name same?

2:16

here John, how

2:18

and fear?

2:19

Shouldn't be showed, us forces

2:21

and a brother christine taylor you're

2:24

going to for not the and to say here

2:27

murder as he sees aaron body

2:29

nine sparing nine didn't know nice

2:32

Can we do large he others me to?

2:35

see you The pure air

2:38

many we can. I

2:41

see it.

2:42

So that's a scene from the new show, the Outlaws

2:45

Coke created by my guests, even merchants

2:47

Stephen Merchant, welcome to fresh air. What

2:50

are you so much having these honor to be here, so

2:52

like I said, the show is in part

2:54

in inspired by your parents, so they

2:56

supervised a community service?

2:59

They supervise given a service or

3:02

offenders, as they used to refer

3:04

to them and eighty, as you say, my hometown

3:06

of Bristol and dumb, even

3:08

as sort of teenager I always thought. It

3:11

was an interesting world because my.

3:14

mother who are tell me about the sorts of people that comes

3:16

with a door Then. Rules to

3:18

varied been some members she told me about old guy

3:21

who, was caught stealing cabbages

3:24

another vegetables from people's garden allotments,

3:27

as she realized that he was coming. Back counseling and

3:29

that he sort of just like the social aspect

3:31

and was of getting himself arrested to

3:33

then get committee service to then come back each year

3:35

and I'm and White enjoyed you know sort, of as

3:38

an amateur dramatics society or something, but

3:40

some and then there was and guy went to

3:42

school, with Ah who who?

3:45

Is the world's laziest see once

3:47

got caught breaking into A has to see the T.

3:50

V. in the and the homeowners came back, they

3:52

said, Dave, what are you doing and? He went are

3:54

not days and the what do you

3:56

want. you live next door and

3:58

he was pretty it was only

4:00

There's have somebody to go block over

4:02

and. so my mother would tell me about

4:04

these people are just so what interesting

4:07

Once you know people that would never normally associate

4:09

or encounter each other in any

4:11

other walk of life and of and

4:14

for some reason that part to south in my head

4:16

and has been there ever since and so and so

4:18

with a the show.

4:19

There were was that your parent's main job

4:21

or do they volunteer for that her?

4:23

My. Father began, as plumber

4:26

and went through various jobs

4:28

I'm a bit by yes was settled into the community

4:30

service world, so the later in life

4:33

that as to. My mother who got us with job and it's

4:35

sort of brought him in was of nepotism,

4:37

I think she's sort of got him a job there and

4:40

that's that. Was what they did really until they retired

4:42

Yeah I'm and so it sort of

4:44

was you know they were very tangentially

4:46

involved. with law and order

4:49

And I've always wanted to do it show that sorta

4:51

got thriller, aspect crime aspect

4:53

of it seem like an interesting sort of back door way

4:56

into crime story.

4:58

Are your parents to both alive their,

5:00

boost to live long since retired or my

5:03

mother? proudly says that

5:05

character you played their diane

5:07

played budgets are gunning who was very much was kind of

5:10

The of jokes in the show, my mother proudly says,

5:12

"Oh, it's based on me.

5:13

Gilbert. Am and how as my question it seems

5:15

like he was not necessarily the most

5:17

flattering for, trail

5:20

if someone to the job your parents had, well,

5:22

it's not my mother. It's all it's just it is it's

5:24

overseas to do, but of course it's a lot more fun

5:26

to make the character you know sort of would

5:28

be authoritarians who's got no. Real power

5:31

or but thinks they have it so much funnier way to do

5:33

it the my mother I think was just was much

5:35

more, didn't have that kind of. ego

5:38

just good goal but the job Did

5:40

you ever been to take with middle managers, sort

5:42

of sense a transfer some of your writing?

5:46

It to, have it no I don't have

5:48

don't have bunch of it would middle manager specifically but

5:50

I'm endlessly fascinated by kind of. people

5:53

whose ego is

5:56

Corrupted if you like by a little bit of power

5:59

and, that's interesting

6:00

Interesting community in a way he goes is constantly

6:02

fascinating and and, I think

6:04

so much of ego is border of insecurity and

6:06

I'm always interested what are the insecurities that

6:08

people have that sort of turns them into. monsters

6:13

What your character Greg as is a bit

6:15

of sad sack he's nice guy but

6:17

socially awkward and terrible

6:19

at his job as lawyer why.

6:21

his that the care to europe for yourself

6:24

what would you like about plane that kind of role

6:27

Well. I regret not because feel like, typecast

6:29

myself again, is a sort of awkward loser,

6:32

which I played many times before could give myself

6:34

a scale as I am. One of the creators

6:36

could see myself as a I was going to get

6:38

the romantic lead or seven air this

6:41

guy in a tuxedo but some I

6:44

', wanted. That character in there was fascinated

6:46

by the idea for I'd sort of know someone

6:48

who's a little like this youth's so woke

6:50

up in middle age and find themselves

6:52

to. Be lawyer and so I did here never

6:54

want to be a lawyer, you know what I did

6:56

via your band or something and something love the. Idea somebody

6:59

drifted into law, you think it doesn't seem like

7:01

a job you could drift into bus,

7:03

but you'll buy his own admission is someone who

7:05

did lot of his research. Either through, Wikipedia

7:07

and dumb and to that seemed interesting

7:10

to seemed you know, of someone who on the surface has

7:12

surface respectable job but is just getting on by.

7:14

Their fingernails and die

7:17

doesn't really doing this sort of sweet talk,

7:19

their way through it and that card was

7:21

always in the script and then if you got. Me on, sir

7:23

anyway, why am I going to call someone to play

7:25

that card time as will do it myself it's very much

7:27

in, my wheelhouse and so ends up? Being

7:29

on another bad suit and playing

7:32

suit but you're right that it is, it's that lot of fun

7:34

to play and it's a lot of fun to play someone. Who's kind of

7:36

socially awkward and hoops you?

7:38

know is drawn into

7:40

crime world and is sort

7:42

of the nervous Then.

7:44

Nervous character doesn't really want to be there is one of

7:46

my big early comedy him since his was Bob

7:48

Hope, and I was loved the idea of the character he sort.

7:50

Of assets to such as enough

7:53

the coward in a dangerous situation is

7:55

and to see amazing to me well. among

7:57

yourself you have lot of other great people

8:00

In the cast, including Christopher Walken

8:02

and I read that he was your

8:04

first choice for the thrall, why did

8:07

you want him in particular?

8:09

We will also the idea of a character who

8:12

feels bit like sort of man who fell to

8:14

worse he seems exotic of the

8:16

glamorous so I think certainly for.

8:18

so set in the uk the idea

8:21

of idea of a an american even

8:23

just one american being in that world

8:25

seems quite glamorous and it being the

8:27

superbowl can even more so and but the idea

8:29

being that On. The surface he seems

8:32

mysterious and of exotic,

8:34

and then when you should appeal beneath the surface, he's just

8:36

another sort of petty criminal and

8:38

small person if you. Like and

8:40

the idea of playing with that and the expectations

8:42

that someone like Vulcan

8:45

brings to the audience and

8:47

sort of undermining the or sign to Pv away,

8:50

Ah? seems very interesting and so

8:52

he also is able to do You.

8:54

Know you can be funny, but he can also be scary,

8:57

but he can be sweet and he can be funny, and

8:59

either Christmas got lot of sort of in, oh?

9:01

Things in his armory and so does clinic the

9:04

so many elements that you can play with when you're playing

9:06

with someone who. sort of iconic in

9:08

that way

9:09

Well, let's hear a scene our with you in Christopher

9:11

Walken from the Outlaws. "The

9:14

set this up lot, walk in and to

9:17

of the others who are

9:19

mandated to do community service and been

9:21

in this abandoned building and

9:23

are they found big suitcase's cash

9:25

and they suspect I gets stashed

9:28

drug dealer money and they want

9:30

to" Would it up among themselves but

9:32

Walk and says, "You know, we can't just start spending

9:35

as we're gonna have to launder it, they don't

9:37

auto launder money, so they

9:39

pull you aside in the scene

9:41

because your lawyer and they want to see if you

9:43

can help them out?"

9:45

I give a big man else soon as you

9:48

hypothetical.

9:50

Legal imagine,

9:54

lovelace we'd, already finds

9:57

a large bag of cash

10:00

Wasn't. A barrel and we're to verify

10:02

this money buys he founded the bottom

10:04

of the god says unlikely there,

10:07

will bear with us lucky I'll tell where do you know

10:09

the? barrel Bart not a wealthy woman

10:11

in this money to help for and both kinds

10:13

of financial jams so

10:15

she comes to, you lawyer.

10:17

said greg and he to watch

10:20

this cash from town and

10:23

this cash paper trail that makes

10:25

it look the gym

10:27

Those as we shifted know Susan swing

10:29

on it like her.

10:30

What? Would you do I'd, say,

10:33

thanks for coming in barrel always barrel pleasure to see you but

10:35

I can't help you with this obviously because you're talking about money

10:38

laundering? "which is a major crime and we both go to jail

10:40

two inch barrel", says Yeah, right absolutely,

10:42

the theoretically, what would you do

10:45

well theoretically barrel we need to Phillips with.

10:47

Some kind of show, coming on

10:50

how would you do that

10:55

No I use it exists influence occurred in my

10:57

love for my lady campus or,

11:01

does not work and of judy the accounts department

11:03

pay the money today because as kind and then up to the

11:05

issue which has. good The

11:08

new.

11:09

In a man to censor wants.

11:12

to do that for me Then.

11:15

Sit there and I can do this money laundering privacy

11:17

remember when you told us that

11:20

are you forged his signature

11:23

on, legal documents at

11:25

his troubled of chaos, as?

11:28

Full of emphasis on total

11:30

incompetence assessments,

11:32

next Monday

11:34

for your boss, right now tell

11:37

him. on but that is

11:40

super old off it Then.

11:51

They're all.

11:56

That's the scene from the Outlaws, which is co created

11:58

by make a Stephen Merchant. That scene

12:01

includes great Christopher Walken and

12:03

you know Stephen Elop people do like walk

12:05

in impressions you know imitating

12:08

I. kiss idiosyncratic have

12:11

rhythm that is dialogue but in

12:13

listen to that clip I noticed

12:15

to tell melodic is voices. When

12:19

he's. Then.

12:20

spoken I think about how he punctuation

12:23

to him is it is a detrimental

12:26

thing if he if he obeys the punctuation too

12:28

much for him, it feels like it. Interrupts

12:31

the, sort of rhythm of speech and

12:33

I think for him he almost sort of ignores

12:36

that, and it gives, him

12:39

a sort of I don't know what. The word is almost like

12:41

a sort of jazz of can improvise jazz

12:43

like quality that, such as that,

12:45

the know the notes sort of, in unexpected places,

12:48

this of different than. A rhythm and cadence to

12:50

any and it makes it intriguing

12:52

and yeah intriguing think it makes you. lean in you

12:54

know as lean viewer i'm it's

12:56

unique

12:58

Will the show is part comedy, part thriller,

13:00

am, and I was wondering when you were writing

13:02

it? Or was it at all a

13:04

challenge to sort of find the right

13:06

balance of humor? The

13:09

idea of mixing humor and drama and

13:11

thriller seems perfectly acceptable.

13:14

to me i feel like

13:16

My. Life, you know it's hard it's dark

13:18

moments in it's tragic moments and it's had in

13:21

a humorous moments within the same breath, you know

13:23

and simple, things like remember going.

13:25

To my grandmother's funeral and it was very somber

13:27

day and yet I mean the A curse

13:30

on the way to the graveyard and I can hear the, that

13:32

that. That that the Reverend and the driver

13:35

discussing some sinks

13:37

way through the glass and the driver. scissors

13:40

do a droid reverend and

13:42

the other references know that choose between

13:44

drinking and driving truce drinking or

13:46

they started laughing as thought well of course

13:48

this is another day of the office for them

13:51

Across it was a very sad and somber dates

13:53

and that just position I suppose of sort

13:55

of tragedy and humor feels like

13:57

it's. In shops for don't feel.

14:00

Those to me sort of a hat, my interpretation

14:02

of the world, and so to me that

14:04

those things sitting side by side sinks completely

14:06

normal, whereas I think for other people they can

14:08

sing, jarring or citizen in Congress.

14:11

You said you've been ah

14:14

you are.

14:14

Big fan of Alfred Hitchcock's movies didn't

14:17

get those movies at all influence the way that you

14:19

wrote her shot the outlaws will.

14:22

certainly again the mix of suspense

14:24

and humor that you seen in a lot of hitchcock

14:26

and hitchcock think lot of

14:28

My. Favorites from up here: idiotic Billy

14:30

Wilder was a masters who juggling those

14:32

tones as well and similar Sunset

14:34

Boulevard, which on the surface as sort of filmed

14:37

law, but also. Kind of sort of

14:39

Hollywood satire and character

14:41

study in story of aging and in assuming

14:43

things in there and yet times we sort of in

14:45

when they're burying. Her to the pet. Pansy.

14:48

It's very surreal, an old black comic

14:50

moment I've always been drawn to

14:52

things which are to juggle those tones and I think

14:54

even things like the sopranos which on the.

14:56

Surface or knows his famous one

14:59

thing: the so much fewer in that show and

15:01

so much that classic episode the Pine

15:03

barrens were poorly increase for get stuck in the.

15:05

Snow Watch on a bump, someone off,

15:07

and forty loses his shoes, you know,

15:09

it's very funny, almost like sort of samuel beckett

15:11

play and also interestingly when

15:13

I was growing. Up was very influenced by mess the TV

15:15

Show" and in the UK mesh

15:18

was shown with our laughter track, it

15:20

didn't have an audience laugh track so to me

15:23

that. Was my experience of mesh when it seemed to the U.

15:25

S. saw it in reruns this like this

15:27

kind of audience laughter plastered all over

15:29

the show and it seems. Strange to me

15:31

because to me that was a show about Hawkeye

15:34

using humor in the face of death

15:36

and in the face of sort of existential crisis,

15:39

to sort of. Get his to himself through the day

15:42

and suddenly with laugh track either east

15:44

and slightly objectionable, objectionable sort of

15:46

felt like pork, I stop making one liners

15:48

and go. Without surgery. and it's

15:50

funny how that is of to me something like

15:52

mass was a much darker more intriguing

15:55

show without an audience laughter can it again

15:57

it's it didn't it's didn't take it to be

15:59

sitcom

16:00

My took it to be assertive comic,

16:02

drama I suppose so. i do know is

16:04

it something to do with perception or Oh,

16:06

hi, something is received a switch

16:08

shifts the way you. appreciate it

16:11

It here in the States, we like our existential crisis

16:14

with a bit of laugh track success as.

16:17

Well, you know, your first big success

16:20

was the office, the original British

16:22

version that you co and co directed with

16:25

the star of the show Ricky Jervis and.

16:28

People probably remember but the show take place at paper

16:30

company and slouched city west

16:32

of London and. of the

16:34

offices run by travails

16:36

his characters david brent how would

16:38

you describe david

16:41

You know you mentioned earlier about my obsession

16:43

with middle management and have a seat in that

16:45

he is the ultimate sort of middle manager of.

16:48

at time when the show This

16:51

coming together political correctness

16:53

was big buzzword in the UK,

16:55

I'm sure it was here and. They.

16:58

Seem very interesting to us up there was

17:00

number of people that we'd work with who

17:03

were, trying to pay lip service to this new

17:06

culture of us with political. Correctness

17:09

of and yet it wasn't really internalized

17:11

it was sort of an act and that whatever

17:13

old kind of prejudices they had was still

17:15

lingering and, and to me that.

17:17

David Brent with in bodies that awkward transition

17:20

and you know sort of suburban

17:22

man. who you know

17:24

has he sort of petty grievances and craves

17:27

The adulation of his staff he wants to

17:29

be seen as funny man, and Bill's was great

17:32

boss and suddenly documentary film

17:34

crew of showed up at his office and it gives him the

17:36

opportunity to present version of himself

17:38

to the world but. There's big

17:40

gap between who he thinks he is and

17:42

who he really is and that was

17:45

what was so delicious about that character and what

17:47

was I. think makes it makes very sort

17:49

of and Can

17:51

rich character and one that was either, as

17:53

you know, we remain in the States was too crowded,

17:55

that ropes and ideal

17:57

captured it to us something about lot of? The

18:00

of. I suppose was

18:02

what we'd call Little Englanders you know people

18:04

in sort of provincial towns who,

18:06

are pass craving status. and

18:10

It's not really there and so they have their little systems

18:12

whether it's the office the working or whatever

18:15

and dumb

18:17

Yeah, on any capture the moment in time

18:19

and it's was also at that

18:21

time in the UK there was a spate of

18:24

reality TV that was by real

18:26

life people.

18:28

I. Just following them around in there was a woman called Marine,

18:30

who was taking driving lessons, and

18:32

she became sort of national icon for while

18:35

because she was sort of. A hopeless, helpless driver

18:38

and I'm the idea of sort of the ordinary person

18:40

being elevated to celebrity and all

18:42

of their sort of flaws and quirks being magnified

18:45

seem, very. Interesting to us

18:47

and and, we have lent into

18:49

that with the fake documentary style

18:52

What let's hear seen from the office I'm this

18:54

is your base filling out a performance review

18:57

for the receptionist for the office play by

18:59

Lucy Death. The

19:01

theater and name role model.

19:05

Some as influence you to levy not

19:07

like as start with us and know someone's

19:10

or generalized to someone is with

19:12

influence on you in Marseilles

19:14

my mom she's. just strong

19:18

Home in a scissor seats

19:20

and cause. i'm in votes

19:22

had

19:23

Me see if it wasn't your

19:25

mother, though I'm a dozen, he must be woman

19:27

they could be of.

19:29

Man and, as well

19:32

I suppose it was man if he misses

19:34

us my father of the

19:36

second parents is read or listen to someone

19:38

in the so work related arena.

19:41

sentence My I'm kinda.

19:44

funny

19:45

He's a friend isn't not friend of

19:47

so. many little for maybe the you

19:49

know well hm huh although

19:52

he said no said woman to me or my

19:55

My

19:58

shoe, the anyone tell?

20:01

The person is backline miss those.

20:04

days face allowing The

20:07

can we put me as if it was

20:09

a not him?

20:10

Then you want to be on up the can't find so

20:13

suffered strong woman or man.

20:17

So. How did that it's a very funny mobile, such

20:19

terrible moment where she's trying

20:21

to talk about her mother's hysterectomy insists

20:24

does doesn't hear any of rights five

20:27

I? Hadn't heard that for long time it was real was very

20:29

charming to hear that.

20:31

We're listening to the interviewer producer, Sam

20:33

Brewer recorded with comedian writer

20:36

actor and director. Steven Merchants

20:39

latest series. The Outlaws is

20:41

about a group of Misfits court order

20:43

to do community service, its streaming

20:45

on Amazon Prime will hear more

20:47

of their conversation after break Terry

20:50

Gross and this is fresh air, Spire

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clean energy, Inspire is a

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21:21

Reveal the economic patterns all

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21:28

money. Better with the indicator, one of

21:30

NPR's daily podcast. more voices

21:33

all ears npr podcasts

21:36

Let's get back to the interview, our producer, Sam

21:38

Brewer recorded with British comedian, writer

21:41

director and Actor. Stephen Merchant.

21:43

He has a new show called The Outlaws

21:45

about diverse group of people guilty

21:48

of low-level offenses, who are

21:50

court-ordered to do community service motion

21:53

plays. Greg recently, divorced, Sad

21:55

Sack lawyer. The Outlaws is streaming

21:58

Amazon Prime. The rigid,

22:00

your face merchant Coke created the British

22:02

comedy series The Office, which

22:04

was adapted into the American series of

22:06

the same name they also created

22:09

Extra.

22:11

So we go when you came up with the idea

22:13

for the office, you and Ricky Gervais is had

22:15

a radio show was without live show. Those

22:19

are lives sort of DJ music and conversations.

22:22

Though. You know, for that kind of job

22:24

you really have to be on your toes lot you have to

22:26

be like filling up the space and

22:29

also very responsive to

22:31

your. Cohost, you know, they say something,

22:34

and you have to have retorts, the didn't do

22:36

that kind of set the template for how you

22:38

to would write together. Well.

22:40

We. Are actually began a radio station,

22:42

but we weren't on air, we were actually behind

22:45

the scenes, and Ricky had somehow

22:47

sweet talked his way into this job, he was new.

22:49

Radio stations in London and he

22:51

got shot as the yet, the head of speech,

22:54

which is absurd, really, I mean, if you've

22:56

heard Ricki speak to me some as even. Finish a sentence

22:58

in and says, "Of gets bored with it and move on to know what

23:01

does that tell me?" Well. It in Syria,

23:03

he was supposed to be providing content

23:06

for the DJ whether it was jokes or

23:08

missiles to see news items or

23:10

competitions things outlets of and

23:13

he very quickly. Decided he needed an assistant

23:15

and my resume have to be in the office I

23:17

was trying to get into radio and. his

23:19

The top of the pile and I'm called

23:21

me up for interview we hit it off and so for a short time

23:23

I was sort of his assistant but we subsequently

23:26

discovered that either week with great said

23:28

sense of humor and we go on very well

23:31

and so. by the time they put

23:33

us on the air as they eventually did

23:35

we yeah we had a rapport

23:37

and kind of double act sing going

23:40

which like you say sort of translated into the

23:42

writers' room but some

23:44

While we're at the radio stations am I.

23:47

got a job at the b c

23:49

and i should jump ship and ship and during and training

23:52

exercise training was asked to make us

23:54

make documentary a real documentary

23:56

about something in my neighborhood you know barbershop

23:58

or whatever and i suppose

24:00

Could? We do a fake one, instead, my

24:02

friend request can have very good,

24:04

at least we got some observations of office life and

24:06

they should have lie been so I. Had camera crew for dates

24:09

and so Ricky lower back to his old office, and

24:11

we kind of did list if you like little taste

24:13

or. What became the office and very,

24:16

quickly we had that report perform

24:18

screen on the radio and on and in

24:20

the writer's room. and so much

24:22

of i think kind of finding

24:25

A great partner is about sort of discussing the

24:27

things you love about bonding over the things you

24:29

don't like I'm. and

24:32

Gavin is finding you got to have shared outlook

24:34

and ushered sensibility.

24:37

Privately their rhythm American version

24:40

of the officer was also and wildly popular

24:42

science teeth carouse Michael Scott Paper

24:45

Company in Scranton and,

24:48

there's a lot of similarities between the two

24:50

shows particularly like in the early episodes

24:52

of the american version but they deftly

24:54

have different tone to them howard's you can

24:57

pair them Well,

24:59

I take pride in the fact that.

25:01

I. Was something of a historian of comedy

25:03

and TV and of study university and

25:05

one of things like notice when they tried to adapt

25:08

British, shows to America's america's sometimes the. Original

25:11

British people came and try to do it themselves

25:13

and often they didn't work. because

25:16

Much as we grow up with American TV and culture

25:18

we don't really that we have lived here we

25:20

started our bones being Americans

25:22

and it was important to us and I sort

25:24

of was very kind of have batted Ricky

25:26

about this idea that we needed an American or.

25:29

to do it and also who would understand

25:32

and get the sensibility of are sober translate

25:34

it effectively to america

25:36

and

25:38

My. Concern on the initial serious

25:41

was that it was too close to our version

25:43

and that it it's shoot kind of spread

25:45

it's wings more and be

25:47

it's own thing and. I think between the first and second

25:49

seasons, see Corral had his pit

25:51

movie, a four year old Virgin, and I think the

25:53

networks wanted to sort of soften the

25:55

Michael Scott. Card to slightly and make him slightly more

25:58

kind, of lovable in the way

26:00

Steve wasn't that movies, and I think

26:02

that to Greg reawakens have agreed

26:04

with that, and they and they sort of started to take it away

26:07

sort of from the slightly bleaker,

26:10

more existential version.

26:12

The British as the British version and

26:15

move into something I'm just a little bit

26:17

more ah.

26:19

User. Friendly is that right and so still

26:22

kind of with some sharp edges and still with some satire

26:24

and still with some served a dark comic

26:26

moments, but just, you know? Open

26:28

up the world, open up the other characters and

26:30

kiss, bring little bit more sunshine into this

26:33

gray office, yeah, that sounds

26:35

are to me, it feels like the. British version as

26:37

much more sort of cringe inducing an

26:39

awkward and even the

26:42

David Brent character has.

26:44

is more repugnant than the michael scott it's

26:47

i just wondering if you think that british audiences

26:50

have different expectations and american audiences

26:52

in terms of comedy of your and your experience

26:56

I think what we have grown up with

26:58

in the UK is a series of hit

27:00

comedies about quite. The

27:02

pleasure. Man. Right,

27:05

back to critical Tony Hancock

27:07

in the late Sixties who are that toy was the biggest comedy

27:09

starring You Can he was, on screenplay

27:12

the sort of failing. Actors who was quite petty

27:15

and in and quick selfish and

27:17

he would clear the streets famously when he show

27:19

was on the streets, the pub's everything would be empty

27:21

people watching. TV Hancock speech point:

27:23

"A malevolent character and yeasts and,

27:26

and then that was sort of followed in the Seventies

27:28

by basil fawlty, the John Cleese character would gain

27:30

is gain sort. Of petites little, Englander

27:34

hotelier and englander hotelier think

27:36

we were suspended tradition of that

27:38

and I think the British audiences are used

27:40

to sort of. laughing at quite

27:44

Such a small petty man or.

27:46

whether it's sort of exorcism for us for something i don't

27:48

know and think i'm not sure that tradition

27:51

is quite the same in the us think maybe

27:54

Then. You appreciate winners more

27:56

than we did, you know we quite like laughing

27:58

at losers.

28:00

So maybe that's something to do with it,

28:03

ah, I don't know, but some but

28:05

legacy silly, think they think they soften

28:07

some of the edges of Michael Scott, but think

28:09

it a very effective way.

28:11

You said it, you gravitate towards a socially

28:14

awkward comedy, in part because you were

28:16

an awkward teenager, and I think

28:18

that has something to do was just how

28:21

tall you are your six

28:23

feet, seven inches, the right.

28:25

How old were you when

28:27

you started to outgrow your Pierce?

28:30

Yeah,

28:31

like it seems like I always was

28:33

can't really remember probably, you

28:36

know in my early teens. My

28:38

memory is that I've always being taller

28:40

than everybody else. And as

28:43

you say that maybe

28:45

cut self-conscious and you

28:47

know that dream that you wish you could go back and talk

28:49

to your younger self with the you

28:51

have now and the knowledge. I have now, he's people want

28:53

to be tall, people dream

28:55

of being and it for some reason, didn't

28:58

realize that, no one ever told me.

29:00

So was right because

29:02

was told her than everybody else and should have

29:04

let into that like a superpower and

29:07

instead it did make you somewhat self-conscious and I think,

29:09

you know, someone once said to me in an interview, do

29:11

you think you went in to comedy control

29:14

when people laugh at you? And

29:16

i don't know if that's true. It may be true. Certainly,

29:20

I think. There

29:22

was a feeling that if people are going to point

29:24

and laugh you anyway. may as well.

29:26

Hey you to do it there.

29:28

was part of part

29:30

Well, you know, you said you felt awkward at that

29:32

age, but I bet you probably

29:34

were physically awkward, mean, your body changed

29:37

so. Rapidly you it's

29:39

probably a. lot of people

29:41

are clumsy like in their teenage years yeah don't really

29:43

know how to even control your body at that point

29:45

specially since grown so tall so quickly

29:47

when quickly think it's also the eat Simple

29:50

things like not be out.

29:52

My clothes are easily, you know,

29:54

and so many of the civil conventions

29:56

of. Are you

29:59

going out? Your. Friends and clothes shopping

30:01

and it's like it was just as was gonna come after me because

30:03

unless they were all going to come to the big

30:06

and tall store here. , know

30:08

there were, I wasn't gonna find clothes that fit as he gives you

30:10

can sort of you can't create a

30:12

liquor Korean look for yourself you choose.

30:15

To be you know, either

30:17

they're like rock. her you know

30:19

whatever because you can find the close

30:21

to fits you end up wearing will ever sits

30:24

at it's fists and so you never quite bucaram

30:26

feeling like you're owning yourself you know

30:28

you feel like you're sort of making do

30:30

little bit and dumb

30:32

And it's funny to these things like that which year

30:35

which?

30:36

The dictates of how does your self

30:38

confidence, I suppose?

30:40

The and I'm not super tall myself,

30:42

but I've noticed that people really

30:44

feel compelled to talk

30:46

to tell people just about like how tall

30:48

they are likes people go to up

30:51

to strangers and ask them their

30:53

height that's probably happened

30:55

to you. People probably out if you play

30:57

basketball, put early, what do you think that

30:59

compulsion is that desire to to?

31:02

Then. Talk to talk to people, I think it's not

31:04

just about do you play basketball and what's

31:06

the weather like up there, which get a lot of it's

31:08

also making jokes. "On think people

31:10

just meet you and need another being in barn

31:12

awesome, overzealous order to drink and person I just

31:15

met", said Hope, "That's a tall order and everyone"

31:17

laughed and, i just thought Then.

31:19

You'd never make a joke like that about

31:21

very small person for,

31:23

the episode it's terrible see what it is, but it's

31:25

funny because I think what is it. As again

31:27

funny in the sense that you know it's

31:30

amusing looking at it from the outside because

31:34

think people think told is a victory

31:36

that somehow. Even it's an achievement,

31:39

as I said because people want to be told

31:41

think they think that you are

31:44

somehow accomplish something and therefore why

31:46

would you be self conscious? About it, why would you be offended

31:49

if they brought up it's a, success of

31:52

some you can be proud of and therefore they can comment

31:54

on it and whereas? As you say for me. it's

31:56

just i've heard all the comments before

31:59

i got no A condom it's

32:01

not a conversation starts do I

32:03

play basketball has a very binary answer

32:06

yes or no and it's know there's nowhere to go with

32:08

that conversation on.

32:10

and so who you know it's olds

32:12

that people feel You know

32:15

they can comment on it as you,

32:17

know and is interesting in earth's in earth's climate

32:20

in comedy and which is sensitivities

32:22

to every subject matter being

32:25

tall is one that people can still openly

32:27

joke Well, let's take

32:29

another short break here.

32:31

If you're just joining us, our gas to Stephen

32:33

Merchant, whose new show on Amazon Prime

32:35

is the outlaws. More after a break.

32:38

This is fresh air.

32:40

This message comes from NPR sponsor Teladoc,

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33:23

Oh wanna talk to a little bit about your acting,

33:26

you know when you are working on the office

33:28

you only appeared and once seen

33:30

it was funny scene but it was shorts

33:34

but. then when you interface cook rate of the show

33:36

extras you had recurring

33:38

role as his Actors

33:42

terrible agent and, I just

33:44

wanted to play scene from that. dreams

33:47

come to your office to talk about his

33:49

new sitcom when the whistle blows which

33:52

debuted the night before em both

33:54

of you thought it was terrible

33:56

What are these lights it was being kind of, it

33:58

was a mixed bag, the mail? When get

34:00

themselves back. And

34:03

you become the reviews him as,

34:06

he saw, go to sleep with is more, recently

34:09

found another one,. of his earth

34:13

perhaps it's unfair to judge earth sitcom on his first

34:15

episode but when tv program might want

34:17

to gouge out your own eyes rather than what's one more minute

34:20

That was probably not your cup of tea towels

34:22

go poppy in the scrabble that empathy and the scrapbook,

34:25

the good ones in scrapbook. Morgan,

34:28

want?

34:29

There's no good ones best.

34:31

form of the telegraph for this as they did with us

34:36

Great I'm A.

34:38

Hi be doing sick as a really good six point, two

34:40

million.

34:41

Six million people watched it last night and

34:43

yet none of these likes it when people

34:45

know about comedy don't even know what to talk about with the general

34:47

public for me.

34:49

You said if you get your own show, the

34:51

offers a come flooding and. The

34:53

phone would never stop ringing the that any phone calls

34:55

at all. Then. That.

34:59

Oh, no bottlenecks guy called, and

35:01

they say that the British a Thursday. The

35:05

Fear Merchant I.

35:07

You're very funny in that part, but I read the,

35:09

you don't really love acting that much as a

35:11

true. Well.

35:14

I. Think what I find straightening about

35:17

it is that when I'm a sort of actor for higher,

35:19

I can see my little piece of the puzzle

35:21

and think why enjoy about. Directing

35:24

and writing as he gets to see all of it and you get

35:26

to kind of have an involvement in all of it and did

35:28

with that control freak rates.

35:31

Or whether it's just making,

35:33

do you know enjoying the Jigsaw

35:35

Puzzle of It and in the like some

35:37

of helping finished a Jigsaw Puzzle is interesting and? but

35:40

actually over time i've begun to enjoy

35:42

acting more i think parties When

35:45

I started he likes to eat of the

35:47

uneven some degree and in the outlaws yeah I'm

35:49

playing comic. characters which

35:52

was feel like an easy sit for me and

35:54

so

35:56

So I feel like can do them quite well and

35:58

have a of the arts.

36:00

Then. challenging for me and in the sense that

36:02

us, they, you know, I should know

36:04

what I'm doing, whereas find writing

36:06

directing much more nutritious, you know, it's tougher it's.

36:08

Harder at six more sort of imagination

36:10

in a sense, but in recent years I

36:12

started to broad night my acting and.

36:15

Most recently in the UK I played a

36:17

real life serial killer could

36:19

Stephen Port to who,

36:21

killed number of young men and the BBC made

36:25

A. drama about the families trying

36:27

to get justice and that was and very serious

36:30

role for which

36:32

You. Know I had to research and the, and had to us,

36:34

he had a different accents, what we're with, voice coach

36:37

and their I find a very, very stimulating

36:40

job. , it's forty the first time as an as

36:42

an actor where I got the same nutrition

36:45

if you like as do as a so I

36:47

think of. Over time to find acting

36:49

more interesting, more challenging. and

36:52

more The site nutritious.

36:54

The, you know, obviously, were radio

36:56

show or who is interested and in people's voices

36:59

and accents, the can you tell us

37:01

eleven about learning a different accent

37:03

and what that accent was?

37:06

I. Was very intimidated I,

37:08

come from a place called Bristol in the West Country

37:10

I have, have quite distinctive

37:12

accent if you're from the UK like from think

37:15

how think Would describe it's a bit to be like pirate

37:17

speak the exaggerated version

37:19

of my accent is that yar, son TV,

37:22

you know it's, sort. of seafaring

37:25

voice and i'm my seafaring

37:27

sensitive

37:28

You. Know had a whiff of that to it's if I didn't realize

37:30

had an accent until was university had grown

37:32

up in Bristol everyone's but the same way and

37:34

I. Went to a the interest in discovered that's

37:37

my ex, it was considered slightly parochial

37:39

and kind of I was just of sort of to consider

37:41

the yokels, guess that's the. Best way to scrub

37:44

my accent so it's generally regarded

37:46

as being the to voice to a farmer

37:48

would have or up you. know or

37:50

i'm

37:51

So the allergic hated yoko and six,

37:54

and I see the still a kind of snobbery I think in the UK

37:56

about my ex. Then your a

37:58

pirate farmer or player. By her.

38:01

The of the outlaws was renewed for a second

38:03

season, am can you tell us anything I think he said

38:05

if say at the heist? The

38:08

team at about a heist well other there's heist

38:10

episode but doesn't seem is really

38:12

just expanding on the first of we

38:15

were lucky enough to actually end up shooting two seasons back

38:17

to back to. that we got close time

38:19

because of the pandemic but then when we came back we'd

38:21

had time to write whole second season which

38:23

led to supply the last season the first which to

38:25

then pay off in the second so we're all

38:27

the cars comes back into the christopher and sort

38:30

of toby early on in my writing career with his comedy

38:32

or with drama you that you take your characters your chase

38:34

them up tree and then you throw rocks to

38:36

them and so season one was

38:38

taking that the preseason to is really throwing the rocks

38:40

of them and i'm turning up

38:42

the heat under them and it's The

38:45

very enjoyable because you should have you've established the world

38:47

and you can have lot of fun with, the characters

38:49

and see this as consequences of their

38:52

actions and dumb, and

38:54

elevators and we've research was about see about

38:56

third season as. well socialist

38:58

color mileage see in these characters It

39:01

will I look forward to the seen the next season.

39:05

Then the merchant thanks so much for being on

39:07

fresh air. Thank you so much know.

39:10

Stephen Merchant Co created and stars

39:12

in the series The Outlaws It's

39:14

streaming on Amazon Prime he

39:16

spoke with Fresh Air Producer Sam B Rigor

39:19

After. we take a short break jazz critic

39:21

kevin whitehead will review new album

39:23

by the german group the clarinet trio

39:26

This is fresh air.

39:28

This. "Message comes from NPR sponsor

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The Alzheimer's Association dedicated

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after losing her father too early

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org. Slash any given moment?

40:29

In modern jazz and improvised music,

40:32

there were many single instrument choirs

40:35

such a saxophone quartets and breath

40:37

ensemble. Oh, how fans

40:39

of Clarinet? Germany's

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The Clarinet trio has been around

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for about quarter century. Credit

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Kevin White Head says the group's new

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album looks back further than

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that.

41:20

That's the Blues as soon as an

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English the Blues as King A.

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sixty year old tuned by trumpeter klaus

41:27

lens as played by germany's the

41:29

clarinet trio They're

41:31

lively new album on the Leo label "Transformations",

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and further passages revives

41:36

tunes written by German jazz composers

41:39

and nineteen fifties and sixties.

42:14

The Clarinet trio on tune in by

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Vibraphone Just curl Burger could

42:19

move to the US and school Unseen

42:21

improviser said his creative music studio

42:23

and Woodstock New York to.

42:26

my years the nineteen fifties and sixties

42:28

tunes on the trio's new album don't sound

42:30

especially germanic There

42:32

are occasional traces of global music's

42:35

from the Mideast to Vietnam.

42:59

Albert Mango's doors theme from Vietnam

43:02

adapted from a folk song. Mostly

43:05

mid century German jazz musicians aim

43:07

to write good jazz tunes to improvise

43:09

on. trombonist Mango's

43:11

dwarfs nineteen sixty two set him

43:13

up, sounded like you been listening to America's

43:16

Ross on Rolling Kirk. There is

43:18

a bit of that mango's north.

43:36

The Clarinet Korea's version of that too without

43:39

bass and drums is more open and

43:41

slippery every. time they refer

43:43

back to the theme it's like hitting the reset

43:45

button on their collective improvising Three

43:48

clarinets may twine like on

43:50

prune divines.

44:38

That. He has those old tunes

44:40

on the main attraction here as the lovely

44:43

sound of blended woodwinds, the,

44:45

pastel colors and animal yachts

44:47

of years and cook gun clarinet mikhail

44:50

thicker. Usually on alto Clarinet clarinet

44:52

Bass Clarinet as Gephardt woman who

44:55

spend a lot of time working with Americans

44:57

and the States. these

44:59

players are these first to notice that clarinet

45:01

with their thin precise overtones can

45:03

mimic abstract electronic music

45:06

The true exploit the residents of the room

45:09

to really make things on.

45:42

Someone somewhere is always

45:45

claiming that no one plays jazz clarinet

45:47

any more, but there are dozens of

45:49

a clarinet improvisers around. The

45:51

these three, for example.

45:53

It is fair to say the various sized

45:55

clarinets don't get enough attention as

45:58

expressive, robustly would.

46:00

The sounding jazz voices for our

46:02

time and, those would horns

46:04

do sound great together. as the

46:06

clarinet trio demonstrate all

46:08

over there salute to some german jazz

46:10

forebears

46:16

Hm.

46:33

Given Whitehead is the author of the book "Play

46:35

the Way You Feel The Essential Guide

46:38

To Jas Stories on Film", he

46:40

reviewed Transformations and further

46:42

passages the new album by Germany's

46:44

The Clarinet trio Tomorrow.

46:47

on fresh air my guest will be eric holder

46:49

who became america's first black attorney

46:52

general when he served in the obama

46:54

admin Illustration. He has a new book

46:56

called "Our Unfinished March: The

46:58

violent Past" and "Imperiled Future

47:01

of the Vote: I hope you'll join" Of fresh,

47:04

air as executive producer is danny miller

47:07

Our technical director and engineers, Audrey bentham

47:10

our interviews and reviews are produced

47:12

and edited by any solid phyllis,

47:14

myers, Sam Burger, Lauren Cranesbill,

47:16

how do some on Teresa Madden and

47:19

were able to not always say a challenge her stuff Kelly?

47:21

Angela Wolf from Or. digital

47:23

media producer is molly cv nesbit

47:26

roberto shore up directs the show i'm

47:28

terry gross

47:32

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