0:02

Fresh Air. Fresh Air Production.

0:08

Hi, and welcome to Fresh Ears. I'm Neil

0:10

Cowling, the founder of Fresh Air, the UK's

0:13

leading producer of podcasts for brands

0:15

and businesses. In this series, we

0:17

look at case studies of the shows we've made

0:19

and chat them through with the clients and the producer

0:21

to see what we can learn and what might be useful

0:24

to know for others who are thinking of making a podcast

0:26

for their brand. Kleinwort Hambros

0:28

is a private bank headquartered in

0:30

London with a 200- year history. We

0:33

started working for them back in the pre- pandemic

0:35

years, remember them, and launched The

0:37

Wealth Chat, a series giving advice

0:39

on current trends in wealth management. Then

0:42

during lockdown, we switched to short pocket-

0:44

sized updates before going back to longer

0:46

form work. More recently, we

0:48

launched a second series, The Entrepreneurs’

0:50

Chat aimed at owners of small businesses

0:52

and startups with less market style

0:55

insights and more general conversation,

0:57

hosted by James Hurley, the enterprise

0:59

editor at The Times. Here's what it sounds

1:01

like.

1:02

We just have to get the recruitment right and

1:04

we have to invest. I think where we

1:06

have been smart is that

1:09

myself and (inaudible) and David

1:12

and any of our other backers that we've had over the

1:14

years, no one has really taken any money out of this

1:16

business. We've always, if we've had some cash

1:18

in the bank, we've gone, " Right. Let's hire this

1:21

amazing person. Let's invest

1:23

in these offices. Let's grow. Let's

1:25

just put the money back in." So I think the first thing

1:27

is I would want everyone to take

1:29

away from this conversation that every business is

1:31

a recruitment business.

1:33

Why would a private bank have a podcast?

1:35

What are they trying to achieve and why are they expanding

1:37

their portfolio of shows? We're

1:40

going to talk this through with Karolina Diebra,

1:42

head of marketing at Kleinwort Hambros

1:44

and Anouszka Tate, our senior producer

1:46

here at Fresh Air.

1:56

Karolina, welcome to Fresh Ears. For

1:58

those who don't know, perhaps we could

2:00

just start with you explaining who

2:04

Kleinwort Hambros are and what you do, please.

2:06

That'd be great.

2:07

Hi, Neil. Thank you for having me. Kleinwort

2:09

Hambros provides private

2:12

banking, investment expertise,

2:15

and wealth management services

2:18

to individuals, families,

2:20

entrepreneurs, IFAs, and

2:22

external asset managers in the UK,

2:24

Channel Islands, and Gibraltar. We are part

2:27

of Société Générale Group.

2:30

We've been working together now probably about

2:32

two and a half years and you were quite

2:34

an early client to Fresh Air.

2:37

What brought you into

2:40

podcasting? Was there a particular thing that you saw

2:42

or a particular reason why you decided

2:44

that podcast was something you wanted

2:46

to start doing?

2:48

Yeah. A couple of years ago,

2:50

we were doing a review of our content

2:52

strategy and marketing strategy and looking

2:54

at different channels, different

2:57

types of content we are producing to

3:00

engage with our audiences. We realized

3:02

that a lot of it was very traditional,

3:04

written pieces. When

3:06

we started to think about how lifestyles

3:09

of our clients and

3:12

other audiences are evolving and

3:14

people are becoming more busy and

3:16

have less time to spend reading articles, reading

3:18

lengthy papers, we realized

3:21

that we wanted to diversify that content.

3:23

We wanted to use a format that fits

3:26

better into that lifestyles. Then the idea of the

3:28

podcast came about and we thought, well, this

3:30

would fit really well because whether someone

3:32

on their commute to work or during

3:35

a daily run or even just preparing

3:37

dinner for the family, a podcast

3:39

is a really right format to fit into

3:42

that busy lifestyle and engage

3:46

with a content and with a story that's

3:48

behind it.

3:50

We used the phrase thought leadership quite a lot

3:52

for what people want to achieve. Is

3:55

that a fair summary of what

3:57

your ambition was with this, to set

3:59

yourselves up with a

4:01

specific thought leadership channel?

4:03

Yes, absolutely. It was part of that.

4:06

What we really wanted to do is for a podcast

4:08

to reflect our purpose and our purpose

4:10

is to simplify life's financial challenges. A

4:13

lot of the content that

4:16

we cover in our podcast is around

4:18

investment management, wealth management,

4:21

philanthropy, retirement

4:23

planning. We wanted to bring those topics

4:25

closer to our audiences. We

4:27

wanted to shed a bit of light

4:30

and educate around

4:32

some of those challenges that people are facing on

4:34

their journey, on their financial journey.

4:36

So for

4:38

the listeners, we now have two podcasts

4:41

running with you guys. We have The

4:43

Wealth Chat, which was the original series, and

4:45

we have The Entrepreneurs’ Chat, which

4:47

is just launched in the last few months.

4:51

If we talk about The Wealth Chat for a moment, because they're quite a

4:53

different format, that's presented

4:56

by an internal speaker

4:59

who was a really early choice.

5:01

That's Fahad. Just tell us a bit

5:03

about Fahad and why he was a good choice to

5:05

be the presenter for the podcast.

5:07

Yes. Fahad is

5:09

our chief investment officer at Kleinwort Hambros.

5:12

Fahad obviously is running our

5:15

investment strategy and

5:17

is very close to the clients as well,

5:19

but also in his role, he

5:27

has quite a broad media presence. He's

5:30

a very engaging speaker. He's a very engaging

5:32

host of the podcast. We

5:35

wanted to talk about topics that are really

5:37

on the minds of our

5:39

clients or potential clients and educate

5:41

and inspire and really

5:45

bring those topics to life. And Fahad was just really right person to do that.

5:50

How do you choose what is a good topic? Is

5:52

it something that you are talking

5:54

about in other communications? Is it just a

5:57

sense of what your audience

6:00

are looking for? Is there a science behind choosing

6:02

the topic that you're going to talk about next?

6:04

So we try to make it as diverse as possible.

6:07

As a private bank, we focus both

6:09

on investment management, wealth planning, philanthropy,

6:11

succession planning. We have a really

6:13

wide range of expertise. Some

6:16

of those topics would be coming from discussions

6:18

we have with our experts and with

6:20

our client- facing teams to understand

6:23

really what's on our client's minds and what

6:27

is that they speak about,

6:29

what are concerns they may be having or what

6:31

challenges they're facing. These

6:33

are the topics really what we wanted to

6:35

bring to life most in the podcast.

6:38

Then we also look at more

6:40

strategically around with our ambition,

6:42

what we're trying to achieve. That's

6:45

where some of the topics around responsibility,

6:47

responsible investing, philanthropy,

6:49

some of the work with our charity partners that we're doing

6:51

that also we're introduced into

6:54

The Wealth Chat.

6:54

Anouszka, bringing you in

6:56

as producer, Fahad obviously

6:59

came with some media experience

7:01

and well, significant media experience and

7:03

is a great talker. What

7:05

do you have to do to take that kind of raw material

7:08

and turn him into a great

7:10

podcast presenter?

7:11

Well, I think the really interesting thing about

7:14

Fahad is that, obviously, he's often

7:16

the one who's being the expert

7:18

speaker on TV, on the radio. He's

7:20

the one who's bringing the knowledge, whereas actually,

7:24

that makes him a great speaker, but he's now

7:26

having to be on the other side being the one who's

7:29

anchoring a conversation and guiding a conversation.

7:32

So it's more that side of things that

7:34

I can bring a little bit more expertise

7:37

and just coach him through,

7:40

just knowing how to read

7:42

the guest actually, and knowing when

7:44

to allow them maybe a little bit more silence before

7:47

jumping in with the next question because that might be when

7:49

the great answers are going to come through, because he's

7:51

an incredibly eager, enthusiastic presenter,

7:53

which is exactly what you want energy

7:55

wise, but just learning

7:58

the pace and rhythm of an interview

8:01

as opposed to being the one who's there to

8:03

just spill out all this wonderful knowledge,

8:05

I think was the main thing that we worked on with him.

8:08

Yeah. That's an interesting one, isn't it? Because we

8:10

always talk about the presenter having the

8:12

ear of the listener, thinking about

8:14

what the listener wants to ask

8:16

and getting the answers out that the listener

8:19

is already wanting to know. But

8:22

actually, when you've got such an expert presenter,

8:25

it must be very difficult for him not to want

8:27

to jump in and give

8:30

answers himself and almost overshadow

8:33

the guest.

8:34

Yeah. He's been brilliant in

8:36

that actually that just comes across as this really

8:39

lovely, exciting conversation.

8:42

It's more almost bringing it back to a boring,

8:44

technical point of view from my side as

8:46

a producer and going, leave a

8:49

beat before you do your exciting jumping in,

8:51

because I can pull that back together

8:53

in the edit to make the pace feel

8:55

up to speed, but it just makes my life

8:57

a little bit easier in the edit if I'm not having to

9:00

work with different tracks. It's very

9:03

boring technical things like that that I've

9:05

just had to teach him, which

9:07

are things that he, of

9:10

course, hasn't had to deal with before.

9:12

Has he improved as you've gone through? Has he learned

9:15

that as you've-

9:16

Absolutely, yeah, I think. I think we've

9:18

got a little bit of telepathy now maybe.

9:20

I can see him starting to catch himself

9:23

when he knows that I

9:25

might have a little word afterwards about, oh,

9:27

maybe you jumped in a little bit too soon there.

9:29

But I would always much rather it

9:31

be that way around than someone

9:34

who is underconfident and therefore,

9:36

the energy of the delivery is that much lower.

9:39

It's so much easier to teach

9:41

someone to take a breath before asking

9:43

a question than to get them to be

9:45

enthusiastic about what they're there to talk about.

9:48

It's all brilliant, really.

9:50

Great. Karolina, we'll

9:53

come on to talk about the second series in a moment, but

9:56

obviously, during that first

9:58

set of The Wealth Chat, we

10:00

had lockdown where we

10:03

pulled it back a bit and The Wealth

10:05

Chat became a very short- form,

10:08

reactive piece of work during the lockdown. Then

10:10

it came back to being much more

10:13

long- form once we had

10:15

more to talk about, I suppose, and the world felt like

10:17

it had settled down a bit. You

10:19

have become more and more committed to podcast

10:22

as we've gone through. What was the driver behind

10:25

you guys deciding that this was a

10:27

long- term strand

10:29

for you rather than just a short- term pilot?

10:32

That internal engagement is really,

10:34

really important, and that support we get

10:36

internally from our colleagues, our staff.

10:39

I have to say, it build up over

10:41

time. I think as people

10:43

see how the content is very

10:45

relatable and the content that

10:48

they can actually use to engage with the

10:50

clients and use it as

10:52

well in their daily work,

10:55

I think they felt this is something

10:57

that they want to really are

10:59

behind and also share with

11:01

their networks. We've actually seen

11:03

that engagement increase. It's

11:05

fantastic to see how currently

11:08

when we post some of our podcasts on

11:10

social media, there's that engagement

11:13

and our colleagues are sharing it with their networks

11:15

on their social media platforms. We've seen

11:17

that trend and that support

11:20

behind the content we're producing. More

11:22

recently, actually, we've been having suggestions

11:25

of what guests we should be inviting to the

11:27

podcast. Particularly with The Entrepreneurs’

11:30

Chat, where we're telling stories

11:33

of people behind the businesses, I think that's where

11:35

that engagement increase even more. We

11:38

had some great suggestions and great

11:41

potential guests being proposed to us

11:43

for the second series. So yeah, we're really excited

11:45

to see that also coming through.

11:47

Magic. So yeah, let's talk about that. The Entrepreneurs’

11:50

Chat is the offshoot

11:52

or the second series that you

11:54

are creating. Can you just summarize

11:57

the format for that and why it's different

11:59

from The Wealth Chat?

12:00

The Entrepreneurs’ Chat tells the stories

12:02

of six entrepreneurs at different

12:04

stages of their journey. We talk about

12:07

the challenges that they face, but also

12:09

some of the lessons that they've learned along

12:11

the way that they are sharing with

12:14

others through the

12:16

podcast. The series is quite

12:18

different from The Wealth Chat. We

12:20

wanted to work with an external

12:22

host for

12:24

this podcast. We wanted to work someone

12:27

who has experience of

12:29

writing, speaking to entrepreneurs. We are

12:32

really delighted when James Hurley,

12:35

the enterprise editor at The Times

12:37

agreed to host the series for

12:39

us. It's been a great experience

12:41

because he obviously has that knowledge

12:44

of entrepreneurs, the challenges they face

12:47

as they grow and scale their business in the

12:49

UK. He had that extra

12:51

insight and he could bring that expertise into

12:53

the conversations, which I think was a great

12:55

driver to make those conversations

12:57

more engaging and more interesting for

12:59

our audiences. So that's the

13:02

big difference. And also, I think they're

13:05

very much more story- driven than

13:07

The Wealth Chat. The Wealth Chat is expertise,

13:09

some of the topics around investment,

13:12

wealth planning, succession planning,

13:14

so much more closer to

13:17

our core business and what we do, whereas The

13:20

Entrepreneurs’ Chat is about stories.

13:22

Obviously, entrepreneurs is one of the segments

13:25

or one of the types of clients we serve, so we

13:27

thought that bringing those stories through

13:29

the podcast will help

13:31

other entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs

13:33

really to learn something and be valuable

13:36

for them as they go on that

13:38

journey themselves.

13:39

It's really interesting, that contrast between

13:42

the two series, because the

13:45

first one is really about

13:47

what you do, isn't it? It's about the core

13:49

service of the business. It's about the issues that

13:51

you talk about every day and

13:53

therefore, it's very

13:56

central to your everyday

13:59

relationship with the listenership.

14:02

Whereas the second one is saying,

14:04

we want to attract this

14:06

target audience of entrepreneurs, but

14:08

not by talking about what we do, but

14:11

creating content that those people will

14:13

like to listen to, and therefore, you get a halo

14:16

effect from the content for

14:19

Kleinwort Hambros without

14:21

it having to be all about you.

14:23

Absolutely. You will see, we don't really

14:26

talk about us in that podcast.

14:29

Kleinwort Hambros is we

14:32

research the guests. We decide

14:34

who we would like to invite and we

14:36

work with on

14:39

the scripts and with questions, how we want

14:41

those conversations to evolve,

14:44

but we didn't really want to make

14:46

it about us. We really want to make it about the guests

14:48

and their stories. I think that's

14:51

what makes it really engaging as well. Internally,

14:53

we've seen great

14:56

support and great feedback about

14:58

the series. So yeah, we're really

15:00

excited to continue and

15:03

launch another series.

15:06

I think as well, real credit to you guys for

15:08

being brave on that hard sell

15:10

front or lack thereof, more specifically

15:12

on this one, because actually, what we've created

15:15

is a genuinely fascinating

15:17

series about the individuals, as you

15:19

say, that their stories behind these businesses

15:21

as opposed to a series about Kleinwort

15:23

Hambros. But the brave part is that listeners

15:25

will come away having a wonderful

15:28

feeling towards you guys

15:30

as the people who facilitated this lovely half

15:33

hour of their day and engaged

15:35

listeners are much more likely to become engaged

15:37

with your wider work, which I

15:39

appreciate for someone

15:41

within your work is maybe

15:44

it's harder to quantify. I don't

15:46

know. Did that feel like more of a risk

15:48

from your side in terms of how you then measure

15:50

that direct success?

15:52

I think it could be perceived

15:54

as a missed opportunity if someone

15:56

is just thinking about, " Oh, every

15:59

piece of content has to be brand

16:01

stamped. Then we need to really have our

16:04

name out there through every piece of content

16:06

that we produce." I

16:09

think if you look at it from that

16:11

perspective, some people may think, oh, we

16:13

are missing an opportunity here to promote

16:15

your services or to promote who we are.

16:17

But I think content is so much more than that.

16:19

I think it's about building trust and building

16:22

loyalty towards your brand. We

16:24

don't expect that someone who's

16:26

listening to the podcast will suddenly necessarily

16:29

directly come to us because they

16:31

need our services, but maybe they will at some

16:33

point in the future. I think that's what we are trying to

16:36

do with this podcast, building that trust

16:38

over time.

16:40

The association with the guests as well is really

16:42

important, isn't it? Look at someone like Jake Humphrey,

16:45

who has a huge following, is

16:47

very big in podcasting, is definitely somebody

16:50

with this high- performance podcast that entrepreneurs

16:53

and aspiring entrepreneurs will listen

16:55

to. By

16:58

association, you are building an

17:00

affiliation with that talent that those

17:02

people will already respect and already

17:06

lap up their content. It's

17:08

a way of being associated

17:10

with someone who you might not otherwise have

17:13

been drawn to or that potential

17:15

audience may not have otherwise been

17:18

drawn to you as a result.

17:19

Absolutely. I think we were really privileged and

17:22

lucky to have some really fascinating

17:24

guests on the podcast in this

17:27

six- episode series so far. We're

17:29

hoping that it will continue

17:32

that way so that people will see you

17:34

had some great, fascinating, inspiring

17:36

speakers, and it will attract

17:39

audience, but also, it hopefully

17:41

will help us to engage

17:44

more entrepreneurs and involve more entrepreneurs

17:46

to wanting to be part of the podcast

17:49

and be our guests on the podcast.

17:51

So yes, we were absolutely. I think having

17:53

someone like Jake, like Giles,

17:56

or Cécile, who have built

17:58

successful businesses and have really fascinating

18:01

stories to share with other entrepreneurs

18:04

is going to help us to, like you say, build

18:06

that association as well through

18:09

the podcast.

18:10

I think that's a really interesting point as well around

18:13

the potential

18:15

longevity of a podcast like this. We've done six

18:18

episodes. Don't get too ahead of ourselves, but the

18:20

idea that you create a space

18:22

that people want to come into to

18:24

tell their stories, I think is really, really

18:26

interesting, that we can start

18:28

to set ourselves up and James will

18:30

play a massive part of that of actually,

18:33

we've just been through something awful

18:36

in our business, but I really want to talk about it

18:38

on a human level and this is the kind of conversation

18:40

I want to be having about it. I know that James

18:42

and The Entrepreneurs’ Chat is the space that

18:44

I want to do that in. I do think

18:46

there's potential for us to start

18:48

doing that longer term, which

18:50

is a very exciting thing

18:53

because that's when you become the thought leaders

18:55

and that's the brand recognition when everyone's coming

18:57

into you and you are not having to pitch

19:00

out anymore. That's the dream.

19:02

Definitely. No, absolutely. We

19:05

have that aspiration for Entrepreneurs'

19:08

Chat to become the go- to

19:10

podcast for entrepreneurs.

19:15

I think sharing those really

19:18

fascinating, inspiring stories

19:20

and people feeling comfortable really just

19:23

having that, those honest conversations with us. Because

19:25

I think what was really amazing

19:27

about the podcast

19:30

we've recorded so far, they've been all really honest

19:32

and really open

19:34

conversations. I think

19:36

that that's what other entrepreneurs will really find

19:38

inspiring as well.

19:40

I love your sentiment, Karolina, about

19:43

long- term payback

19:46

of content and the content is a long-

19:48

form strategy. We always talk about

19:50

that all the time when we're

19:52

talking about podcasts, but you must have some

19:55

pressure on you to show that

19:57

there's a return on investment or

19:59

that there's a measure of success.

20:01

How are you judging with The Entrepreneurs’

20:03

Chat because it is slightly

20:06

tangential from your normal

20:08

content? How are you being able to judge

20:11

whether that is a success or not?

20:13

We would look at sets of KPIs

20:15

for every series we have, but we

20:18

would look both at the hard measures

20:20

and the soft measures. Obviously, we

20:22

can look at number of downloads and

20:25

a number of people

20:27

who listen to the podcast,

20:29

but I think it's equally important

20:32

to look at engagement and how people engage

20:34

with your content, how engaging they find it. If

20:36

we see that the podcast is getting a

20:38

lot of likes and shares and

20:41

a lot of people coming to

20:43

us just giving us

20:45

that direct feedback, qualitative

20:47

feedback, I think that's equally important

20:49

because sometimes, it's as important

20:52

to reach the right audiences that

20:54

engage with your content than just

20:56

reaching any audience and as wide

20:58

as possible. I think there's

21:00

a bit of a fine balance there. Of course, we do want

21:03

reach as many people as possible, but equally,

21:06

we want to reach the right audiences and

21:08

someone who's really going to find it valuable and will come

21:10

back for more and to listen

21:12

more. I think it's both looking at obviously,

21:15

some of the hard KPIs, hard measures, but also,

21:18

I think, that qualitative

21:20

feedback as well is also important.

21:20

Anouszka, we've talked

21:23

about Fahad earlier. He's the presenter

21:26

for Wealth Chat. James

21:29

comes from more of a media background,

21:31

but he's a print journalist. What's the challenge

21:34

in taking a print journalist and turning them

21:36

into a podcast presenter?

21:39

I think it's mostly about empowering

21:41

them to bring themselves to the conversation.

21:45

He can ask brilliant questions

21:47

that elicit the right answers from people,

21:50

but of course, when you put that in print, you take

21:53

your own questions out and

21:55

you just make it about the person or the business

21:57

that you're talking about. It's actually about allowing

21:59

him to insert himself back into that

22:01

conversation. He has been completely

22:04

brilliant. As Karolina said, so many

22:06

of the guests have given really deeply

22:09

personal insights into yes,

22:11

okay, this awful thing happened in the business,

22:13

but this is how it affected me mentally or

22:15

in my personal life or whatever. I think

22:17

that's real testament to James being

22:19

able to just give

22:21

little anecdotes from his own life or to connect

22:24

on a human level with the guests,

22:27

because you can't expect someone else to give

22:30

that much of themselves if the host isn't

22:32

giving that back as well. There's already that

22:34

kind of rapport and connection because he is

22:36

so immersed in these world. Yeah,

22:39

he's just been an absolute joy to work with.

22:41

In terms of the content as well, it's

22:43

a different type of storytelling. It's a different

22:45

type of content. As you say, actually on The Wealth Chat,

22:50

as a producer, you can't be expected to know

22:52

lots of detail about what a private bank does

22:54

all day long, but perhaps The Entrepreneurs’

22:57

Chat plays more into your

22:59

role as a producer because you

23:01

are thinking about storytelling on a more

23:04

general level. How is that different

23:07

and what role do you play?

23:09

Yeah. I think there's an interesting

23:11

point here about how we've all worked together

23:13

collaboratively, because we are all coming

23:16

at the same project from very different angles.

23:19

I think that's particularly clear in the way that we've worked through

23:21

the scripting on this particular series.

23:24

It starts with Karolina and her team and

23:27

they put in the core messaging, the stuff

23:29

that is maybe more of the hard facts that

23:31

they know that we need to get out throughout the story.

23:33

It then goes on to James and he can really

23:36

add his personality to it. He can add some of his own

23:38

questions from his own experience, just

23:40

change wording around so that he feels more comfortable

23:42

delivering it. Then it can come onto me

23:45

and I zoom out a bit and look at the

23:47

entire narrative of the whole

23:49

episode from start to finish. I

23:52

think it's a good lesson, A, in having

23:55

it in writing from the beginning what everyone's

23:57

role is and not

24:00

having too many cooks in each of those

24:02

roles as well. It works that we're quite a small

24:04

team and everyone's very clear what

24:06

they bring to it, which

24:08

keeps the quality consistent and keeps that workflow

24:11

efficient.

24:12

That's been important to you, I presume, as well, Karolina, to

24:14

have clear roles and responsibilities

24:16

in that process.

24:17

Yes, it has. It has been really

24:20

helpful actually to make this process as efficient,

24:23

effective as possible, but I think equally, it's

24:25

so important as well that working

24:27

with Anouszka, she knows what we're trying to achieve.

24:29

She understand the whole concept

24:32

as well of the whole series, so it's not just

24:34

from the producer perspective, but just understanding

24:37

what we're trying to do, what we're trying to achieve,

24:39

working really well both with James and our

24:42

guests, recording with

24:44

different types of guests. Living in different parts

24:46

of the world sometimes can be a bit of a challenge, so I think always being there to put them at

24:51

ease as well and guide them

24:53

through the process. I think that's

24:55

been hugely, hugely helpful as well.

24:58

I think it is great that we have that

25:00

great team that gets

25:02

together and adds

25:04

value from different perspectives into

25:06

the process.

25:08

On the storytelling side as well,

25:10

just a quick one in terms of how we've produced

25:12

the series. With The Wealth Chat,

25:14

we do it episode by episode, start

25:17

to finish, end to end each episode, but with The Entrepreneurs’

25:19

Chat, we've been working on the series as a whole,

25:22

batch recording everything, which means

25:24

that we then have the flexibility

25:27

to choose what release order

25:29

we want to have so that again,

25:32

it's the zooming out and going how

25:34

is this story working across the entire series,

25:37

not just within each episode, which is

25:39

really lovely flexibility to have because

25:41

it really means we're on a journey with

25:43

the listener throughout and something like this

25:45

works really well because there are so many different stages

25:48

of a business's life that we're going

25:50

through. Some

25:52

of them are more at the startup stage and then we are literally

25:55

through the series working to when

25:57

someone ultimately leaves the business.

25:59

So that's worked really well

26:01

for this series, I think.

26:02

I think this has been such a different experience

26:05

from The Wealth Chat. I think exactly for

26:07

that reason that we had the concept

26:09

for the whole series. Obviously,

26:11

it can be shorter, longer, six

26:13

guests or more, but I think the idea

26:15

of having guests that are at different

26:18

stages of their business journey

26:20

and having slightly different story to tell,

26:23

I think that was what made it really so exciting

26:26

and so interesting. They

26:28

complement each other as well. We really wanted to

26:30

make sure that there's that good diversity of

26:33

voices and diversity of stories

26:35

and different types of entrepreneurs being part

26:37

of this podcast.

26:39

Karolina, you've been podcasting now for two and a half

26:42

years as a business. We are starting

26:44

to think about the next stage

26:46

and how these series will evolve

26:49

and Entrepreneurs' Chat will move into series

26:52

two. What have you learned along

26:54

the way? How have you made the best of podcasting

26:56

within the business?

26:57

I think the most important

27:00

lesson was to, I think really

27:02

for us, evolve this podcast

27:04

into much more of a storytelling.

27:07

I think that just made it so much more

27:09

engaging for our audiences. I

27:11

think planning is a

27:13

quite important part of it. I think

27:15

with The Wealth Chat, obviously, we

27:17

had the challenge of the pandemic and we had

27:19

to change the format to be a bit more

27:22

reactive to where our clients

27:24

were when we had some, obviously, market uncertainty.

27:27

So we adapted and changed the

27:29

format of it. I think that adaptability was quite

27:31

important part of it as well to make sure that it actually

27:34

still works and it's still the right format,

27:36

the right content for that

27:38

time. If you see that some things

27:40

are working better than others, just go

27:42

in that direction. Some of the

27:45

analytics and the KPIs will

27:47

play a role there. If you look back at your

27:49

podcast and you see that particular topic

27:52

has done really well or your

27:54

audiences are particularly interested in wealth planning

27:56

versus investing or investing versus, I don't

27:58

know, philanthropy, I think you can also

28:01

use that to your advantage and use that to

28:03

adapt your content as you go along.

28:05

Excellent. So that flexibility and just willingness

28:07

to evolve it and use

28:10

the data to inform the

28:12

evolution of the podcast is really crucial.

28:15

Brilliant. Thank you so much, both of you, for

28:17

taking part.

28:17

Thank you.

28:18

Thank you very much.

28:21

So there we go. That's The Wealth Chat and The Entrepreneurs’

28:24

Chat from Kleinwort Hambros. Thanks

28:26

to Karolina Diebra, head of marketing

28:28

for Kleinwort Hambros, and Anouszka Tate,

28:31

our senior producer here at Fresh Air. If

28:33

you'd like to find out more about Fresh Air and how

28:35

you can make a podcast for your brand or business,

28:38

you can find us at freshairproduction.

28:40

co. uk. In the meantime, I've been

28:42

Neil Cowling. Thanks very much for listening and

28:52

goodbye.

28:52

Fresh Air.