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This is Hema and Jessica and

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Christmas is a gift. It's a

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gift. Merry Christmas, almost. Yeah, merry early

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thing to say is. I have a present for you

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and our listeners. Oh. For

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a bonus episode, I'm going to maybe reinvent

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being the whitest person you've ever met. Oh,

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God. Okay, so stay tuned. I'll write down

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white on my notes. You got it. Got it. Where

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do you want to start today? I'm going to give you two

0:38

choices. The Catholic Church and

0:40

their weird blessing that made the

0:42

news or purity balls. Okay,

0:46

I wouldn't do Catholic Church first to like warm me up

0:48

so I can really be ready for those purity balls. Oh,

0:51

God. So the Catholic Church

0:53

made news this week because a

0:56

day after Pope Francis turned 87. Yep.

1:00

Happy birthday. Happy birthday, sure. He

1:03

announced like unofficial Catholic

1:05

parchment that priests

1:07

now had the option, if

1:09

they wanted to take it,

1:11

to bless same-sex relationships. The

1:14

New York Times described it as a

1:16

way, quote, to make the Roman Catholic

1:18

Church more welcoming to LGBTQ Catholics. So

1:21

what does that mean? Like,

1:24

on the ground? So does it mean you can

1:26

get married? You can get gay married in a

1:28

Catholic Church? Wrong. I just really like saying gay

1:30

married. Yep. Okay, so you can't get married in

1:32

a Catholic Church. Can a

1:34

Catholic priest preside over your

1:36

wedding? Incorrect. Okay, okay, okay.

1:39

So I saw the headline. You're getting

1:41

to the heart of the problem here. Okay, so I

1:43

saw the headline and I was wondering if there was

1:45

going to be a little bit of this. All right,

1:47

so you can't get married in a Catholic Church. Right.

1:49

A Catholic person cannot bless your marriage.

1:52

Now you said relationships. Yep. I

1:54

feel like that's a really important word. Yeah,

1:56

I mean, because I'm seeing them line up.

1:58

Gay people individually could always. partaking

2:00

anything they wanted in the Catholic Church.

2:02

The Catholic Church really wants everyone to

2:04

know we don't have a problem with

2:06

gay people. Just gay sex. Just gay

2:09

sex and gay everything else. And

2:11

unless, you know, people

2:13

in the Catholic Church want to have gay sex,

2:15

in which case that's fine with them as long

2:17

as they're priests. As long as they're priests and

2:19

the person isn't consenting. Yeah, exactly. That's kind

2:21

of their main hard line on that. One

2:23

of the statements, here's

2:25

where I got taken aback by some

2:27

of the responses to this. Because one,

2:29

my first thought is, did they actually

2:31

make any change that's significant? Some people

2:34

argued, like, there are LGBTQ

2:36

rights advocates within the Catholic Church.

2:38

One of them, his name is

2:40

Reverend James Martin. He's one of

2:42

them. This is his response to

2:44

the blessing edict. This

2:47

new declaration opens the door to

2:49

non-liturgical blessings for same sex couples,

2:51

something that had been previously off

2:53

limits for bishops, priests and deacons.

2:56

Along with many priests, I will

2:58

now be delighted to bless my

3:00

friends in same sex unions. So

3:02

he's very excited by this, by

3:04

this change. What's non-lit? I

3:08

don't know. It's like you're not doing all

3:10

the stuff, but you're still saying certain magic

3:12

words, just not all the magic words. Okay.

3:15

So here's the thing. It is

3:17

a baby step in the right

3:19

direction, because, and I can say

3:21

that because in 2021, the Vatican

3:23

actually rejected that very idea of

3:25

blessing same sex couples. And they

3:27

actually said at the time, the

3:29

church quote, cannot bless sin. The

3:32

new document, like just three years

3:34

later, says, yeah, we,

3:36

it doesn't matter what we think about it,

3:39

because, and I'm going to paraphrase this, but

3:41

this is the best case version of what

3:43

they're saying. Like, look, we, we want you,

3:46

if you believe you want a blessing from

3:48

the church, like we want

3:50

sinners to come to our church and

3:52

ask for blessing. Right. We're not going

3:55

to ask you to fill out background

3:57

paperwork in advance. Sure. We certainly don't.

4:00

do that for straight couples who thin in

4:02

other ways. So like, if you want a

4:04

blessing from us, who are we

4:06

to say no to you? That

4:09

also applies. What if you're a

4:11

Catholic person who got married to

4:13

someone who's not Catholic? Well, they

4:15

hate that, but also they said

4:17

they called that an irregular situation.

4:19

That's their weird euphemism for like

4:21

non Catholic. Yeah. But they said,

4:24

even if you're in irregular situations,

4:26

you can also get blessed by a priest

4:28

now if the priest wants to give it

4:30

to you. So basically

4:33

they're saying if you want us to say magic

4:35

words over you, you can get it. And

4:39

it's not as if they are

4:42

validating their marriage is not validating

4:44

your relationship. They're assuming you are

4:46

abstinent. Cause if you were actually

4:48

in a same sex marriage or

4:50

you were, I guess open about

4:53

the fact that you're in a

4:55

relationship, but also you

4:57

don't feel bad about it. So you don't

4:59

have the appropriate shame attached to it.

5:01

Right. Okay. I guess then I'm confused

5:03

about what is actually different. That is

5:05

the correct answer. Oh, great. Because the church

5:07

seems to be getting a lot more credit

5:09

than it deserves here because what the hell

5:11

did they actually do? What good is a

5:13

baby step in the right direction when you've

5:15

taken, when you've gone centuries of

5:18

going in the other direction. And you

5:20

and I often disagree about like baby steps

5:22

in there and whether or not they should

5:24

be celebrated or not. This one doesn't even

5:26

feel like a baby step. This one feels

5:28

like they sort of like whip some words

5:30

together that to an

5:32

undiscerning eye makes it look like

5:34

they have like churches. Great headline.

5:37

Yeah, exactly. And, but

5:39

functionally didn't do anything else. It

5:41

feels like a real like Republican

5:43

nonsense bullshit thing. They're trying. I

5:46

think they're saying, look, why are

5:48

a lot of young people leaving the church?

5:50

Why are gay people leaving the church? Well,

5:52

we're not very nice to anything they actually

5:54

want. Right. Well, this is a breadcrumb we

5:56

can throw at you while we, while we

5:58

starve you. Like. you can have

6:01

this little bit thing and maybe it'll keep some

6:03

of you in the church. Just to

6:05

remind everybody, because these policies have

6:07

not changed, here's what the church

6:10

actually officially believes. According to the

6:12

catechism, like their rule book, homosexual

6:14

acts, so if you

6:16

actually consummate a relationship, that is

6:19

considered intrinsically disordered. Disordered

6:21

is such a cute word that

6:23

they use. The church will not

6:25

celebrate or recognize same-sex marriages when

6:27

it comes to trans people, the

6:29

church is even more openly bigoted.

6:31

They say trans identities seek to,

6:33

quote, annihilate the concept of

6:36

nature. That's the

6:38

church's position, which means because it's

6:40

a hierarchy here, like that is

6:42

every church's position on the matter.

6:44

Yeah, you wouldn't believe it, but when I

6:46

officiated my two best friends' weddings, I

6:49

actually ceremonially cut down a 500-year-old

6:51

oak tree, just

6:54

to really make sure that we were

6:56

destroying nature. Yes, that is

6:58

how it works. Now, and the thing

7:00

is, and this is what the church

7:03

realizes too, there's a large and growing

7:05

divide between what the hierarchy says and

7:07

the people in the pew. Because most

7:09

practicing Catholics in the United States anyway

7:12

are far more tolerant than the Pope, than

7:14

the Vatican. So just to give you some

7:16

numbers there, in the US, and I'm specifically

7:18

talking about the US, 61%

7:21

of people who call themselves Catholics support marriage

7:23

equality. Oh, yeah. Doesn't matter what the church

7:25

says. 76%

7:27

of Catholics believe society should accept homosexuality.

7:29

Like, there's nothing wrong with it. 37%

7:33

of US Catholics acknowledge the existence

7:35

of trans people. And I know

7:37

that sounds low, but one, that

7:39

is in line with all of

7:41

America. And two, that's 37% higher

7:43

than the Catholic Church wants. Then

7:45

zero, yeah. Yeah. So this is

7:47

a way, saying, well, blessing sex

7:49

relationships, that allows you to

7:51

appease the kind of Catholics who might

7:53

be leaving the church right now. By

7:56

the way, it comes a month after the church

7:58

said trans people could be baptized. in

8:00

certain situations. What situation?

8:03

Long story. It doesn't involve not acknowledging your

8:05

trans identity because I bet that doesn't count.

8:08

What was weird about that is they said

8:10

trans people can be baptized, which implies you

8:12

think trans people exist too, which is a

8:14

departure from what the church actually believes, which

8:17

is weird. So the effect

8:19

of the move is that priests

8:21

can bless these couples without technically

8:23

promoting their relationship or the idea

8:25

of same sex marriage or the

8:27

possibility that they will have kids

8:29

and definitely not the act of

8:32

actually having sex. Yeah. So

8:34

it's not that different from blessing two

8:36

men or two women independently. And

8:39

yes, this will make some gay

8:41

couples in the Catholic church happier.

8:44

Sure. So congratulations

8:46

to the six people worldwide

8:48

who this affects. Yeah, I

8:50

guess, yes, I think that's a really good

8:52

way to put it, I'm glad

8:54

that this gives peace of mind to

8:57

some people. Those people are not at

8:59

this kitchen table right now. But

9:02

if this makes somebody's life measurably

9:04

better in any kind of way,

9:07

great. But

9:10

let's not have a parade. Who

9:15

are these people I'm dying to know? And

9:17

I have not seen them quoted by any

9:19

media outlet. Who are these people who want

9:21

to be a class? There are six people

9:23

around the world who really need this. Who

9:26

want to get blessed by the same

9:28

priest who would never actually marry them

9:30

if they wanted to get married. Like,

9:32

is there a gay audience for this

9:34

gift? Or is it really just meant

9:36

for straight Catholics who have moral qualms

9:39

with what the church believes? And

9:41

it's like, see, my church is nice to gay people,

9:43

so I guess I'll stay, here's some money. Well, and

9:45

I guess in the- This is for straight Catholics,

9:47

not for gay ones. I

9:51

guess in the same way, like, I

9:53

wouldn't ever want the approval of

9:56

Mike Pence because I know he, no matter

9:58

what he says to my face. I

10:00

know that he does not think women are people.

10:04

Yeah on the same level as men are Anything

10:06

important our whole human beings in their

10:08

own, right? So I don't

10:10

want Mike Pence to come out and be

10:13

like well feminists are fine as long

10:15

as they're married monogamous Wait, you know what I mean?

10:17

Like I don't give a shit But I also don't

10:19

want his approval and so I guess if you're raised

10:21

your entire life needing the approval of the church It

10:23

could feel really good, but I guess

10:26

that's just a little more Troublesome

10:28

than I'd like I want to

10:30

talk to these hypothetical gay couples asking

10:32

for a blessing from a Catholic priest

10:34

and just like shake them And say

10:36

if you actually want a blessing and

10:38

good fortune for your relationship You should

10:40

you would be a lot

10:43

better off if the Catholic Church stop standing in

10:45

the way of LGBTQ people altogether You'd

10:47

you'd be a lot more blessed if you left the

10:49

church, but okay you do you

10:51

I'm glad you're happier, right? Here's

10:55

here's the analogy I could figure out.

10:57

Oh, okay, Nikki Haley This

10:59

is the theological equivalent of Nikki Haley

11:01

see if this makes sense. All right,

11:04

I'm here There are Republican women applauding

11:06

Governor Nikki Haley former governor Nikki Haley

11:09

Because she is supposedly moderate when

11:11

it comes to abortion Because

11:14

she's not saying we should pass some

11:16

federal law banning abortion She's like let's

11:18

just do like six weeks or 15

11:21

weeks pick a number. We'll do that It's

11:23

like that's not moderate and if abortion

11:26

rights mattered to those voters They

11:28

would be better off voting for a Democrat Well, are

11:30

we seriously supposed to celebrate the

11:32

fact that she's not entirely off the

11:34

deep end? Yeah, because GOP voters

11:36

who think she is their party savior

11:39

They are diluted and sore Catholics who

11:41

believe the Pope's announcement will make any

11:43

difference to gay people in an institution

11:46

That is like inherently anti-gay.

11:48

So Um

11:50

a few months ago I had a

11:52

conversation with some of the women who

11:54

do volunteer work with me one of

11:57

whom is Catholic and has like college-age

11:59

children And she was talking

12:01

about how like, oh, she really wishes her

12:03

kids would like, go to church

12:05

again and like get more involved in the church.

12:07

And I know this one pretty well. And I-

12:10

A Catholic or something else? A Catholic. And I straight

12:12

up and down asked her like,

12:14

I know you pretty well. Like, you

12:17

know, how do you feel about the church

12:19

and its terms on this? And like, you're

12:21

pro, you know, you're pro-choice. How does that

12:23

mesh with it? It's a kind

12:25

of conversation you can have with a person

12:27

who you trust and trust you. If you're

12:29

not trying to do like, gotcha bullshit. So

12:31

maybe take that into into consideration. People

12:34

who are assholes on the internet. Like if

12:36

you approach somebody- Did she say, what'd she say? I

12:39

mean, essentially it's a cultural thing

12:41

more than anything else. That's really what it

12:43

came down to. And I think also it's

12:45

important to remember that like, you

12:47

know, in, in the Western Toronto suburbs

12:49

where I grew up, you're

12:52

not talking about the Vatican, you're talking about Our

12:54

Lady of Peace. That's the local Catholic church. And

12:56

so Catholic bullshit is

12:58

around that. And especially for me, who's

13:00

like kind of Catholic, you

13:02

don't think any further than that. Which

13:05

goes back to who is this change

13:07

in policy for? It's not really for

13:09

the gay gay couples. It's for the

13:11

straight people who are really disturbed by

13:13

the hard right turn of the Catholic

13:15

church. I think you're right. I mean,

13:18

I haven't spoken to her since I found this out 45

13:20

seconds ago. But

13:22

I'm very curious to know if this

13:24

is something that's comforting for her because

13:27

like it or not, it's a step in the right

13:30

direction, right? They're not retreating, which

13:32

isn't a foregone conclusion. I'm not, again, not

13:34

rewarding the Catholic church. I'm trying to think

13:36

of it from somebody, a casual

13:39

Catholic kind of perspective. I

13:43

mean, obviously I think what I think.

13:45

The church has, this is what

13:47

the actual document says. It says

13:49

that when people ask for a

13:51

blessing, an exhaustive moral analysis should

13:53

not be placed as a precondition

13:55

for conferring it. That's the

13:57

way they're justifying this. They're like, look. We

14:00

have thoughts about these gay couples. But if

14:03

it comes to just you want a blessing

14:05

from the person who's like legally allowed to

14:07

give you a blessing within the church, then

14:10

okay fine, we'll give it to you. Honestly,

14:12

this feels like the same thing of like,

14:14

what if I give a guy a blessing

14:16

and it turns out he's a murderer. Hey,

14:18

we don't expect you to do all this

14:20

exhaustive research on every dude you bless. If

14:23

they're a murderer, if they kissed a girl one time and

14:25

they're a girl, those are both equally bad, but you don't

14:27

want to know about either. Before this

14:30

policy, they routinely bless people whom

14:32

they deem sinners because they don't

14:34

do a background check on adulterers,

14:38

single women whose pregnancies are not visible, who may

14:40

have had an abortion, but they didn't like parade

14:42

it around, drug users

14:44

who are not identifiably so. Like,

14:46

they give blessings to people who do things the

14:48

Catholic Church says are same. For

14:51

some reason, they said, yeah, but we're not going to

14:53

do it for gay people. Like, so

14:56

this blessing just kind of puts

14:58

a rule in place that seemed to, by

15:00

the way, there were plenty of priests who

15:03

were blessing gay couples because they believed. Like,

15:05

who are we to judge? The very Pope

15:07

Francis et al. That's how

15:10

they interpreted it anyway. And now they

15:12

just codify that rule saying, yeah, if you want to do

15:14

it, it's cool. You don't have to do

15:16

it like in the shadows. It's fine. So it's

15:18

not a bad change. It's

15:22

also not that big of a change. It doesn't make

15:24

life better for gay couples whose existence continues

15:26

to be harmed by conservative Catholics in the

15:28

Vatican. Nor do I think it

15:30

represents any kind of change in the point of view

15:33

of the position or of Catholics. Right. Like,

15:35

just this does not mean like, all right, we're

15:37

collectively softening. Like, I bet Catholics are still going

15:40

to be pretty fucking homophobic at you guys. Like,

15:42

to what extent? You know,

15:44

what's the point? The church

15:46

even made clear in the text in the

15:48

document, like, don't pretend these blessings are a

15:50

bigger deal than they are. They

15:52

undercut their own point. Here's what

15:55

it says in the document. This

15:57

blessing should never be imparted in

15:59

concurrence. with the ceremonies of

16:01

a civil union and not even in

16:03

connection with them, nor can it be

16:05

performed with any clothing, gestures, or words

16:08

that are proper to a wedding. Bing

16:10

bong. There it is. The same applies

16:12

when the blessing is requested by a

16:14

same-sex couple, like, whatever.

16:17

Just, they're saying, let's say they just got

16:19

a civil union, well, or the same-sex marriage,

16:21

and then they came to the church, like,

16:23

you shouldn't give it to them then. That

16:25

would be, like, promoting what they did. Truly,

16:27

do you ever think that if

16:30

Catholics, conservatives, just took the L

16:32

on gay marriage and abortion,

16:34

what would happen next? If they're, like, fine.

16:36

Fucking fine. Like, have abortions, get gay married,

16:38

we don't care about that anymore, we only

16:40

care about this other bullshit that's ruining the

16:42

world. I wonder how many more people they

16:44

would get on board for their evil machinations.

16:47

It would be huge. The silver

16:49

lining, I guess, in this whole

16:51

scenario is that traditionalists, the big

16:53

heads, like, they're so mad at

16:55

the pope over this nothingburger. They're

16:57

so mad about this change. I

17:00

mean, honestly, that's kind of the main thing about,

17:02

like, why would the pope do this? You're only going

17:04

to piss people off on both sides because he's

17:06

87. You can murder someone at 87, no

17:09

one cares anymore. Like, he can do whatever he

17:11

wants. What are they going to do? Be mad

17:13

about it? He's going to be gone in, like,

17:15

half a month. Is the other pope still alive?

17:18

I thought he died. Did he die?

17:20

I don't remember. Didn't keep tabs on him. No, no, me

17:22

neither. It's funny. Once they take off that hat, it's harder to

17:24

track them, you know? So,

17:26

yeah, like, this is where

17:29

he's at right now. It's fine. Don't make a

17:31

big deal about it. Again, I

17:33

would love to hear from people who actually

17:36

would want these blessings because they're gay couples

17:40

who attend the Catholic Church and are culturally tied

17:42

to it to the point where my guess

17:44

would be it's about my family wants me

17:46

to do it. It's about how many gay.

17:48

No, I accept that. Okay. How many

17:50

gay couples, how many gay

17:53

couples are like, you know, my parents

17:56

approve or disapprove of my relationship, but

17:59

they also. want me to get

18:01

a blessing from a priest. Like, I'm trying

18:03

to work through who are, who's the audience

18:05

for this? Who are the gay couples who

18:07

think everything is better now that they can

18:09

get blessed by a priest? And I'm sure it is

18:11

cultural and they, maybe they are

18:14

well aware of the church's bigotry. But

18:16

also again, how is anyone benefiting from

18:18

this other than straight people who want

18:20

cover for a bigoted institution? Do

18:23

you know anyone with a big Catholic family? No,

18:25

I don't talk to people. Okay, I think you

18:27

have to understand what it's like to grow up with

18:29

a big Catholic family. Um... But if

18:31

you're gay in a big Catholic family... You're

18:34

not exempt from your bullshit if you're gay.

18:36

It's 2023. Even if you're gay, you're not

18:40

necessarily the black sheep. You still have to do

18:42

all the dumb bullshit. Those days are gone that

18:44

the queer kid could sit at home on Sunday

18:46

morning. No, no, no, no. So your suggestion then?

18:48

Churches are accepting of queer people and now you

18:50

guys have to go to more church in your

18:52

faces. Okay, but even in that scenario,

18:55

that makes it sound like it's an obligation

18:57

I gotta do for my family, but it's

18:59

not actually something I want or I need.

19:01

Which is my point exactly.

19:05

Are there any gay couples who actually think

19:07

this is a benefit to them despite

19:09

everything the church believes about

19:12

same-sex actual marriages? I

19:14

can't answer that, obviously, but

19:16

what I can speak to

19:18

is familial peer pressure and

19:21

how intense it is and... That's

19:23

why a bunch of Catholics get married in

19:26

the church. A hundred percent. But again, that's

19:28

not for you. That's for the family. And

19:30

that's my point. Half the shit I do is not for

19:33

me. It's to make my mom not mad at me

19:35

or my dad think that I'm actually doing well in

19:37

life. These are the things we tell our parents and

19:39

then all of a sudden they're internally ingrained in us.

19:42

That is exactly my point. So there are no

19:44

gay couples I can think of who actually want

19:46

this and would be benefit by

19:49

this. This is something they're doing for someone

19:51

else. Which is my point. That's all church!

19:54

If you pull that dengue block out, the

19:56

whole thing collapses! There are actual Catholics

19:58

who think this stuff matters. communion

20:00

because they think it is magic. Like there are

20:02

Catholics who believe this stuff. I

20:04

want to know are there gay couples

20:06

who know they can't get married in

20:08

church, who know they're doing something the

20:10

Catholic Church opposes, but who are like,

20:12

we can get blessed by a priest

20:14

now. Wonderful. Like I can't, I don't

20:16

know that those people exist. I have

20:18

yet to see them quoted in, I've

20:21

read so many articles about this particular

20:23

policy. None of them quote any hypo,

20:25

like any gay person in a relationship

20:27

who says, this is a good change

20:30

because we wanted this. Yeah. And now

20:32

we can have it. It hasn't happened

20:34

yet. Maybe I missed it. I mean, yeah,

20:36

I think that's fair. Uh,

20:39

I think that's a fair argument, but

20:41

I, I totally agree with you. There

20:43

are plenty of gay people who are like my family

20:45

wants it. So truly like, listen, I've seen

20:47

the weird shit you've done to your,

20:49

for your parents. So like, you should

20:51

not judge anybody who is going to

20:54

church, not judging, especially with the cultural

20:56

family pressure. I get that. Who are

20:58

the people who actually want this? Well,

21:00

and it will send me a picture

21:02

from like his family's wedding and he's dressed

21:04

up in his Indian garb and his face

21:06

is like fucking kill me right now. That

21:09

sounds all right. Yeah. He'll just send me

21:11

an angry selfie. It's

21:13

been a while. Yeah, it really has.

21:15

I want to go to one. I wish you guys dressed

21:17

up for your wedding. I really need an excuse to wear

21:20

a sorry. And I'm 38. There's no time they're

21:22

running low. With

21:25

the flying spaghetti monsters birthday, just a

21:28

few weeks away, I'm told. And the

21:30

new year approaching, you might be thinking

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butcherbox.com/friendly and use code

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friendly. Let's talk about purity balls.

22:27

Oh, I love purity balls. Finally. I'm

22:29

sorry here. I didn't think we were going to be talking

22:31

about this because they're not in the news lately. Yeah,

22:33

something changed. Yes. There's ABC

22:36

news on earth, a video. I

22:39

wasn't hiding, but apparently speaker of

22:42

the house, Mike Johnson. Oh no.

22:44

Yeah. In 2015, he attended

22:46

a purity ball and some German news outlet

22:48

was making a documentary about purity balls and

22:50

what ABC news got. Oh my God. I

22:53

want to see a documentary by the Germans

22:55

about purity balls. They were basically

22:57

saying, let me tell you about

22:59

these weird white Americans. Yeah. And

23:01

sure they show, here's what it

23:03

said in the ABC news article.

23:06

This looks like a wedding. A news reporter

23:08

says, uh, but they are

23:11

the brides are four feet tall, but

23:13

they're not bride and groom, but rather

23:15

father and daughter. They refer

23:18

to Mike Johnson and his then 13

23:20

year old daughter, Hannah. The new segment

23:22

also features interviews with the daughter who

23:24

is now in her twenties and shows

23:26

her at the purity ball, pledging to

23:28

her father, quote, to make a commitment

23:30

to God, myself, my family, my friends,

23:32

my future husband, and my future children

23:34

to a lifetime of purity, including sexual

23:36

purity. And they show shots

23:38

of the Johnsons nodding along in a green. A

23:41

lifetime of purity, including sexual purity.

23:44

Yes. I mean, you

23:46

guys, you need to take a second

23:48

run at that. That's like, make it

23:50

a slightly Florida and pretty not including,

23:53

but not limited to sexual purity, moral

23:55

purity, right? Legal purity. I

23:58

gotta have that. I had that. In

24:00

a brief interview clip ABC says Johnson's

24:02

wife Kelly Johnson a Christian counselor told

24:05

the German news outlet quote We

24:07

don't talk to her about contraception sex

24:09

before marriage is simply out of the

24:11

question Which all

24:14

right? Yeah, I mean I've

24:16

gone poorly for anybody hashtag

24:18

Spring Awakening So

24:20

this is the story like why are we talking about

24:22

purity balls? Cuz the story is Mike Johnson attended a

24:24

purity ball and they're creepy and they're creepy and weird

24:27

and so that means we get a new Cycle about

24:29

purity balls, which is great because I love that we

24:31

get to talk about So

24:33

a couple things about this for those of you

24:35

who are not around in this world in this

24:38

dark part of the podcast like

24:40

a decade ago purity balls

24:44

Were and there are this

24:46

bizarre event where usually white teenage

24:48

girls pledged to remain virgins until

24:50

marriage They pledged that to God

24:53

they pledged it to their literal

24:55

fathers The whole spectacle involves

24:57

gowns and tiaras and purity ring always

25:00

wearing white Yeah, presumably to distract everyone

25:02

from the creepy aspect that these dads

25:04

are taking control formally taking control of

25:06

their daughter's vaginas Until they can hand

25:09

it off to another dude in a

25:11

few years Some

25:13

people might call that grooming I

25:16

would I think I think I would I

25:18

think if I symbolically married an adult man

25:20

as a 12 year

25:22

old. Yeah Think

25:24

that's great. It's also in fact oh so

25:27

I don't think we should link the relationship

25:30

you have with your father to the one

25:32

you'll ultimately have with your husband because Creepy

25:35

so creepy and so damaging on

25:37

so many levels Obvious

25:41

which I know all of you are

25:43

thinking there's nothing healthy about keeping your

25:45

child ignorant about sex because you hold

25:47

the warped idea that Everything leading up

25:49

to sex including any form of the

25:52

act and any attempted Experimentation is sinful

25:54

up until the moment when she says

25:56

I do at which point God allows

25:58

her to start multiplying rabbits

26:00

until she and their husband get

26:03

their own TLC show. And

26:05

also these purity balls just hypersexualized

26:07

little girls. It's so gross. Why

26:09

is it having them boys? Like you're 12

26:12

and 13, let's talk about your virginity. I

26:14

truly... That's all that matters. We're going to

26:16

have a whole party to talk about what

26:18

happens down there. Well, I work with

26:20

12 and 13 year olds and it's

26:23

just so yucky

26:25

to force that point to like

26:27

shove that into their brain of

26:30

like all men. I think also we

26:32

need to remember that this is the

26:34

message here is the only

26:36

thing you have of value is your

26:38

virtue, your virginity. And the

26:40

only thing men want is to take that away

26:43

from you. Yeah, because it is something

26:45

to take and don't you dare give it

26:47

away. But men are leaders and

26:49

know better and you should respect them, but

26:51

don't let them touch you. But if they

26:54

are touching you, you don't have the authority

26:56

to tell them not to. So good luck.

26:58

Have fun being a woman in the Christian

27:00

world. Right. And obviously that has led

27:03

to problems at Christian colleges where women

27:05

who are sexually abused feel afraid to

27:07

come forward with that news because the

27:09

it's always the war was she wearing.

27:12

It's always the what did you do

27:14

to make him trip and fall over

27:16

lust or whatever it was. So we

27:18

those stories are all over the

27:20

place in the research I

27:23

was doing for this article. I came across something

27:25

I published like years ago

27:27

and I forgot about it. There

27:29

was a dad in 2016, by the way,

27:31

all these purity culture stuff. We're talking like

27:33

the early 2010. Yeah, that's when a lot

27:35

of this was happening and getting covered. Yeah,

27:37

because everyone's like, wait, wait, what? Yeah, there

27:39

was a wait, what moment? In

27:43

2016, one dad actually placed a

27:45

job listing in the magazine Christianity

27:47

Today and they ran it because

27:49

he said, I'm looking to hire

27:52

someone to be my

27:54

son-in-law. And he

27:56

literally advertised his daughter

27:58

and said, What? Here, I'm

28:01

reading this whole ad to you. It's

28:04

Son-in-Law is the title of the

28:07

job listing for Chicago Land Church

28:09

Elder, CFO, MBA. Her,

28:13

his daughter, Godly, gorgeous. Wait, he wants

28:15

him to have an MBA? No, he's saying I have an

28:17

MBA. Oh, why do I give a shit? Why? Because

28:20

he's saying I'm hiring, you should know I'm

28:22

the CFO, and I have an MBA, and

28:24

I'm hiring. What should you know about her?

28:26

Gorgeous. Godly, gorgeous, athletic, educated,

28:29

careered, humorous, traveled, bilingual, 26

28:31

year old virgin.

28:34

Fuck me. Yeah. That's

28:37

what she said. What is wrong with people? Also,

28:43

girl, did the woman know

28:45

her dad was doing this? I need to know everything

28:47

about that. I believe the answer is no, but

28:50

she did not know he was doing this. The

28:52

magazine later apologized for running the ad. Oh, really?

28:55

Why? Because he was selling humans, is it

28:57

okay? Yeah. Also,

28:59

when he said, that's her, you, like what am

29:02

I looking for in an applicant? Unworthy,

29:05

though becoming less so daily. Like

29:08

you just have to be a Christian. That's the only...

29:10

Wait, that's literally it? That's literally it. And then he

29:12

had his email address in case anyone wanted to... Wait,

29:14

you're lying to me. That's, here, come look at the

29:16

ad. Not even... Oh my God. I

29:18

just read you the whole ad. This

29:20

is the entire ad. It's

29:23

right there. Of course it's in fucking

29:25

Wheaton. Yes, it's

29:27

in Wheaton, home of... Wasn't that very the lead? Can

29:29

you send that to me? I need to send that to my friend who

29:31

lives in Wheaton. I will. So that was 2016. The

29:34

magazine apologized for the child. Wait, I'm not

29:36

done. The husband, the prospective

29:38

husband just needs to be a

29:40

fucking human. Yes.

29:43

And why... But why... The

29:46

whole point I want to make is... Why would you

29:48

do all this rigmarole to get your daughter

29:50

hitched to just like some no one loser?

29:53

Because she's 26 and not married and

29:56

that's like a good 14 years past

29:58

childbearing age. didn't

30:00

he? I bet she's not

30:02

necessarily interested in gentlemen. I bet she's

30:04

not a virgin in any way that

30:06

he considers. I kind of do want to follow up and figure

30:08

out what happened to her. I need to know everything. I bet

30:10

she's 26. She was 26. She's you know

30:14

in her early 30s now. I hope she's

30:16

the last thing to know. I hope she doesn't have to interact

30:19

with men ever again. I need to look into this.

30:22

That was just one example of purity

30:24

culture run amok but another one

30:26

is that this is probably the

30:28

bigger story. Since the time we

30:30

started hearing about purity balls and

30:32

the purity culture and all that

30:34

stuff, there have been so many

30:36

countless articles documenting the problem with

30:39

all that including articles and stories

30:41

in the evangelical world. Really? There's

30:43

been a reckoning of sorts. Like

30:45

in 2018, the unofficial king of

30:47

purity culture Joshua Harris, who wrote

30:49

the book I Kiss Dating Goodbye,

30:51

who promoted abstinence, courtship, waiting until

30:53

marriage to do everything. He apologized for

30:55

the harm he caused and renounced his

30:58

own book that he wrote when he

31:00

was like 12 and didn't know anything.

31:02

A bunch of prominent

31:04

Christian leaders who promoted the idea

31:06

of purity culture as if purity

31:09

was some sort of goal. They

31:11

have faced their own sexual abuse

31:13

allegations showing their hypocrisy and

31:15

plenty of Christians have spoken out about

31:17

how largely because they knew nothing

31:19

about sex or the importance of

31:22

sexual compatibility, it actually hurt their

31:24

marriages down the line. So Christians

31:26

by and large, including Christianity today,

31:29

has had a reckoning in terms of how they

31:31

talk about purity balls, purity culture and all that. So

31:34

again, among the problems with purity balls,

31:36

some of them you've already mentioned, these

31:38

girls are as young as like 12. They don't

31:40

know what they're

31:44

promising or what they're pledging. The pledge

31:46

also, like you said, suggests that their

31:48

moral worth is tied to their sexual

31:50

activity. And like you mentioned, there's a

31:52

double standard because there is no purity

31:54

balls for men. They hit all your

31:57

little bullets. You hit all the bullets.

32:00

No, those are the big ones. And

32:02

again, none of this is to say

32:05

purity advocates are not still promoting all

32:07

those harmful ideologies like all those YouTubers

32:10

who promote purity culture those people

32:12

still exist But they're not

32:14

as loud as they used to be which

32:16

is important because even Christians are pushing back

32:18

on the bullshit They spread. No, all

32:21

of that is to say yeah, Mike Johnson

32:23

is a purity bald dad. Of course you

32:25

I would have guessed I could have picked

32:27

him out of a lineup. We already know

32:29

he had a covenant marriage with his wife

32:32

Which makes it harder for them to get

32:34

divorced which is his way of saying my

32:37

marriage is stronger than yours. He's on hard

32:39

mode. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We already know he

32:41

monitors his son's porn habits Oh

32:43

Lee I forgot about all this. And that his son... This guy doesn't

32:45

have a personal relationship with sex, eh? And

32:48

his son monitors his porn viewing. Oh, even worse.

32:50

Right, even worse. That was when they were seven.

32:52

He was 17. So very creepy.

32:54

We already know He promotes

32:56

Christian nationalism and if you could hear the

32:59

audio that I know like none of you

33:01

could hear like a week or two ago

33:03

Mike Johnson sees himself as Moses He

33:05

is there to take Christians to the promised

33:07

land or Jews to the promised land Like

33:10

his job is to lead people and

33:12

so by the way ABC News did ask

33:14

him for comment. He offered none That's not

33:17

surprising. There are right-wing outlets who are like,

33:19

how dare you complain that this man loves

33:21

his daughter I'm not complaining about

33:23

my dude. Yeah The

33:25

story to me though is not that

33:28

Mike Johnson is an evangelical Christian in

33:30

every horrible way that that suggests It's

33:32

that with his power because right now he's

33:35

two heartbeats away from the presidency If

33:37

Donald Trump were to win next year He

33:39

would be in an even stronger position

33:41

to enact whatever policies he wants to enact

33:44

if the Republicans keep the house If

33:46

the Senate flips, which is a possibility

33:48

as well a good possibility They

33:51

would be able to do whatever they want. And

33:53

what does that mean? What does

33:55

his Christian nationalism mean in that

33:57

regard if he's this obsessed with

33:59

virginity? You can bet that

34:01

has an impact on women's rights, access

34:04

to abortion, obviously, they could legislate

34:06

that. Contraception access,

34:08

sex education in public schools, like,

34:11

this stuff has actual consequences. So it's

34:13

not just we're making fun of him

34:15

because he's a weird-ass Christian. Which

34:18

he is, and deserves to be mocked aroundly for it.

34:21

But there are plenty of Christians who fit

34:23

that mold. This guy happens to be in a

34:25

place of power that affects

34:28

all of us. This is not insulated

34:30

anymore, and that's why it should be

34:32

troubling to people. So to me, the

34:34

story is not, look, they've unearthed a

34:36

video that wasn't exactly hidden from almost

34:39

a decade ago, and it shows this

34:41

guy doing a thing that isn't that

34:43

weird in conservative Christian circles. That's not

34:45

the story. The story is this guy

34:47

who happens to be one

34:50

of the most powerful men in the country, holds

34:52

these views... Who got their point

34:54

accident. Yeah, after try number 11.

34:58

He holds these views, he would gladly enact

35:01

these views into law if you gave him

35:03

the opportunity to, and there are plenty of

35:05

Americans who don't seem to grasp that

35:08

possibility. Mm-hmm. All right. Good

35:11

times. Good times. Do you miss talking about candy balls?

35:13

You know what? There

35:15

is something really charming about

35:17

it because they are so

35:20

on their face creepy and so self-evident

35:25

that it just makes my job easier. Yeah,

35:28

just say, purity balls, and you're like, you guys

35:30

know where they're going. Actually, before we move on,

35:32

I'm sure I mentioned it when I saw

35:35

it, but there is a horror movie on

35:37

Hulu called Pure about a purity ball. I

35:39

saw it when I first came out. It's

35:41

in one of those like, it's an anthology

35:44

series of there's a bunch of one-off

35:46

horror movies, and it's the first season

35:48

of that, and Mikey and I watched it, and I remember

35:50

really liking it. I might have to go back and watch

35:52

it again, but it was very good

35:54

and very salient. Very nice. I'm

35:58

going to talk about... Satanism

36:00

again because it's in the news

36:02

because it's Christmas time. There is

36:05

an after-school Satan club that is

36:07

forming close to Memphis, Tennessee. It's

36:09

called, it's at the Chimney Rock

36:12

Elementary School in Cordova, Tennessee. Again,

36:14

not far from Memphis. And

36:16

basically the story is no different than

36:19

the ones you've heard before. There's a

36:21

Christian club sponsored by adults. They meet

36:23

at the school. Kids, parents can opt

36:25

in if they want their kids to

36:27

go to the Christian club. Because it

36:29

is there, there's a parent who's

36:31

like, oh yeah, I want Satan clubs.

36:33

I want after-school Satan clubs. So they

36:35

decided to start one at this school.

36:38

Obviously, and I have to remind everyone,

36:41

these clubs do not promote Satan, satanic

36:43

beliefs, Satanism, anything like it. The

36:46

people who run this thing don't even

36:48

believe in the supernatural. They are not

36:50

interested in indoctrination. These clubs are like

36:52

science clubs that are just marketed differently.

36:55

The satanic temple and the other

36:58

Satan ones that I always, I mix them up, everybody

37:00

does, I'm sorry, if they're

37:02

extremely different. But this reminds me,

37:04

oh, I forgot what I was going to say because I

37:06

got myself all tangled up. You'll bring it up

37:08

in a second. But basically, there are only four of

37:10

these groups in the country. This would be number five.

37:14

One of the ones that exist in Pennsylvania we

37:16

talked about recently because the school district said, well,

37:18

we got threats about the fact that you were

37:20

meeting. And they said, we're going to like do

37:22

something to the school because you're housing a Satan

37:25

club. They said, well, then we got to shut

37:27

down the Satan club. Yeah, I remember these folks.

37:29

And there was a lawsuit and that district just

37:31

had to pay the satanic temple over $200,000 in

37:35

legal fees. So the point is the

37:37

satanic temple, they're not necessarily starting

37:39

these groups from scratch. There are

37:42

literally four of them right now.

37:44

And they only exist in schools

37:46

that also house Christian good news

37:48

clubs. And even then, it's only when

37:50

parents requested. Yeah, and what I was trying

37:52

to say before I wound myself up

37:55

is that these like these satanic clubs

37:57

15 years ago, we

37:59

would call them. Getty Months or club

38:01

like. It's really just like I'm a

38:03

Gaussian. As if you're going to have

38:05

a a christian club, we're going to

38:07

have club for whatever nonsense religion we

38:09

are. Pretending. That we all believe

38:12

and like it's it's an ugly and been going bet.

38:14

They're. Not doing it every work of they don't

38:16

have the people to pull that off. Riot they

38:18

are. if there is no Christian club at the

38:20

elementary school. Yeah, they're not going to form as

38:22

a Tennessee. Home Phone and the schools.

38:25

I think it is less about

38:27

actually offering these satanic groups and

38:29

more about highlighting the fact that.

38:31

Is there a christian? groups? Dominance

38:35

Yeah the reason I bring all of

38:38

us up is because the question critics

38:40

trying to stop this club from forming

38:42

could not get their stories straight out

38:44

real. And there were so many articles

38:46

about this club formation and of course

38:48

they quote the christians who were opposed

38:50

to it in all of these article.

38:52

That and. There. Were lawmakers

38:55

know lawmakers, the like school board people

38:57

and critics. They staged an entire press

38:59

conference about this. Trying to say reality

39:01

is, but let's talk about a couple

39:04

things. One, you have district officials or

39:06

like we don't want this year, but

39:08

the laws making us. The interim Superintendent

39:11

of the Memphis Shelby County Schools said

39:13

at a press conference she was duty

39:15

bound to uphold board policies, state laws,

39:18

and the constitution like we don't want

39:20

to do those where we have to

39:22

and then climb as yeah. And

39:24

I'm quoting like let's not be

39:26

fooled She said let's not be

39:29

fooled by what we've seen in

39:31

the past twenty four hours, which

39:33

is an agenda initiated to ensure

39:35

we cancel all faith based organizations

39:37

that partner with our school district.

39:40

Like and in I guess. That. is an

39:42

option you have a literally no one

39:45

is demanding that the district cancel all

39:47

after school extracurricular activities right but she

39:49

is right to say that the only

39:52

way if you want to legally block

39:54

the as club from forming you gotta

39:56

stop all extracurricular activities altogether no one

39:59

is asking to do that, but that

40:01

is the only way they legally could stop

40:03

it from forming. Because, again, as long as

40:05

the parents who want to sponsor this group

40:07

go through the right paperwork and go through

40:09

the motions, there's no reason they

40:11

can't have it. So the only people who

40:13

want to stop it from forming are like protesters

40:16

and some district officials who don't like it, but

40:18

they don't have any game though. But she's

40:20

not alone. A school board

40:22

member, Mauricio Calvo, who

40:24

represents the district that contains chimney

40:27

rock, said the board would explore

40:29

legal alternatives to mitigate

40:31

the situation. That

40:34

sounds threatening. It does sound threatening, but also

40:36

there are no mitigate the threat. Are you

40:38

going to murder children? I know. I'm not

40:40

a lawyer, and let me tell you anyway,

40:42

you don't have legal alternatives. No, you really

40:44

don't like. Also, there's no situation

40:47

to mitigate. What are you afraid of? That

40:49

really is kind of what it comes down

40:51

to, is like, again, as I said before,

40:53

you just got to take the L. Sometimes

40:55

you have to acknowledge that no, Christianity is

40:58

not this super special club that people get

41:00

to do whatever they want if they're a

41:02

member and wear their little t-necklace. It's not

41:04

that. Everybody gets to believe in whatever weird

41:06

shit they believe in. And if you want

41:08

to start a fucking club for your weird

41:11

religion at your school, great, go ham on

41:13

it. But everybody else gets two too. Yeah.

41:15

Number two, those are school board people. Let

41:17

me tell you about the parents who don't

41:20

understand how equal access works. One

41:22

parent, I don't need to say her name, she

41:24

said, I think it's BS. I think it needs

41:26

to be held somewhere else and not a school.

41:29

Well, that's why I always listen to that

41:31

random lady when I think of

41:34

constitutional law. This is a grandparent.

41:36

I'm about to come unglued right now.

41:38

I cannot believe this is a kindergarten

41:40

through fifth grade school, and they're letting

41:43

a satanic club come in here. Yeah,

41:45

that's not the law work. Wait, there's another

41:47

grandparent. We should have

41:49

had some earlier notification, a chance

41:51

to say, maybe this is not something the

41:54

parents here would like. What

41:57

would earlier notification do? What are you going to do? wound

46:00

up that they're just making points

46:02

on top of points. It's just,

46:04

it's an Ouroboros argument. He can't

46:06

proselytize in the school and neither can Satanists. The

46:09

difference is they're not trying to. And

46:11

I promise you that statistically, kids are

46:14

safer in the presence of any Satanist

46:16

than youth pastors, Catholic priests, and your

46:18

pick. Listen, the stories I've heard both on

46:20

and off the air, I would

46:23

not be worried about a Satanist when

46:25

it's compared to any kind of Christian

46:27

dude. Like, Satanic Temple can rent space in

46:29

the school because a Christian club already does the

46:31

same thing. It's not a party. Also, this guy

46:33

just doesn't know how to read a flyer. Party?

46:36

Why did he think it was a party? I

46:38

mean, it's science. It could be. By the way,

46:41

I think science is a party, haven't it? It

46:43

could be if you're a nerd. I

46:46

mentioned how many after-school Satan clubs are there

46:48

in the country? Four, maybe five after this

46:50

one. How many good news clubs are there

46:52

right now? Oh, God, there are thousands? 80,000.

46:54

80,000? That's

46:57

according to their website. Maybe that's cumulative over

46:59

the course of the years. I don't know.

47:01

That does seem high, but that is what

47:04

they celebrate on their website. We have one

47:06

at my high school, I think. And the

47:08

difference is these Satan clubs do not want

47:10

to evangelize to or convert your kids. Christian

47:12

ones actively do. I have a question. Yeah.

47:14

Is... I'll finish up here. The after-school

47:16

Satan club here in Chimney Rock. This

47:18

is scheduled to launch on January 10th,

47:21

unless district leaders decide to take very bad

47:23

legal advice. Aye, aye, aye. I

47:26

don't remember what I was going to ask you.

47:28

I bet it wasn't important or interesting. That's okay.

47:30

I'm going to do a follow-up story

47:32

on a similar topic here,

47:35

because, as I said, yes, there are

47:37

four after-school Satan clubs with a fifth.

47:41

But none of them are not

47:43

in elementary school. These are all

47:45

parent-led groups at elementary school. No,

47:48

it's not an after-school Satan club in

47:51

high school, where there's a bunch of 16-year-olds

47:53

trying to make their parents mad. Until now.

47:55

Yay! Yeah. This is

47:58

according to the Kansas City... star

48:00

a teenager I don't know how

48:02

to pronounce this O-L-A-T-H-E Olathe, Olathe,

48:04

I don't know, but a teenager

48:07

at Olathe Northwest High School in

48:09

Kansas, he filed paperwork

48:11

to begin the quote High School

48:13

Satan Club. This is the

48:15

first time I have heard of

48:18

a high school student actually trying to pull this off.

48:20

He actually wanted to call it after school Satan Club.

48:22

The school said you can't call it the ass club

48:24

help us out here. Oh can I can I post

48:27

can I can I pitch um

48:30

our god damn what's holding

48:32

my brain today there's something about holiday

48:34

no what's the high school

48:37

say oh high school independent

48:39

Satan school hiss sure

48:41

sure I am not in

48:43

my game today I should drink more it's 6 a.m

48:45

you can make it work it's 1 p.m and I've

48:47

had one Dr. Pepper one

48:49

Dr. Pepper. People are not

48:51

taking this news well either even though it's

48:54

a student led club started by a student

48:56

who has apparently filled that off correct paperwork

48:58

as well. As of last week

49:01

there was a petition on change.org

49:03

stop the Satan warship club at

49:06

this high school it had over 6,000 signatures

49:08

and according to the student

49:11

who filled it out whose

49:14

name is Drew McDonald and I can say

49:16

that because according to the teenager who's launching

49:18

the club he's like there's no one by

49:20

that name at my school. What?

49:25

But here's what the petition said wait

49:28

someone started the petition it says

49:30

um here's what the

49:32

petition says Satanism has a strong history

49:34

of persecution and violence towards the church

49:36

and those who believe in god whether

49:39

you believe in god or a Christian

49:41

Catholic Mormon Hindu Buddhist or even atheist

49:43

you should see that ending this club

49:46

is not just because it opposes Christianity

49:48

but because what they stand for and

49:50

the actions they will make are wrong

49:53

and immoral this is not an argument

49:55

over religion and Christianity but of right

49:57

and wrong says kid who doesn't go

50:00

to their school but launched the petition to stop

50:02

the club. Oh,

50:04

okay. Wait, wait, wait. So somebody in

50:06

the school launched the club? Yes.

50:09

And then somebody from outside the school?

50:11

Or someone under a pseudonym because no one knows who

50:14

this kid is. But okay.

50:16

Andy McDonald? Drew

50:18

McDonald? I changed his

50:20

name from Andrew. Like with every

50:23

change.org petition, even if it's quote

50:26

unquote successful, who cares? Online

50:28

petitions don't have the weight they did in- 2009.

50:30

This is nothing. As the Satanic

50:33

temples June Everett told the Star, I

50:35

mean, they could get two million signatures.

50:37

It doesn't trump constitutional First Amendment law,

50:39

which is correct. And

50:41

by the way, as the teenager pointed

50:43

out correctly, the only reason the Equal

50:46

Access Act exists and that if

50:49

the school allows an after-school

50:51

club to meet, they can't say no on

50:53

the basis of anything else. Who

50:56

fought for that policy to come into place?

50:58

Christian. They're the ones who won the case

51:00

before the Supreme Court as

51:02

recently as 2001, saying we want

51:04

access because you allow access to other groups and

51:06

they want it. And I think it's from the

51:08

80s as well. But again, the point is there

51:11

are laws in place that say you can't say

51:13

yes to like one religious club and not the

51:15

other. It's broader than that. But that's the idea.

51:17

And as far as

51:19

I can tell, this group meets every

51:21

guideline. It has interested students. It has

51:23

a faculty sponsor. It's not violating any

51:25

school rules. So it doesn't matter what

51:27

you think about the club. It is

51:29

following every rule the district has in

51:31

place. So if a district rejects the

51:33

club, a lawsuit would follow.

51:36

And the Satanic temple has a good track record when

51:38

it comes to this sort of stuff in the courts.

51:40

And so anyway, for what it's

51:43

worth, I will tell you this, I spoke with

51:45

a student this week who wants to remain anonymous.

51:50

Not the weird one who launched a petition

51:52

under a pseudonym or something. No, the

51:54

student said he wants anonymity because he knows

51:56

there are conservatives who might resort to extremes

51:59

to destroy. what they falsely

52:01

believe is evil. Like what's stopping them

52:03

from actually hurting him? Sure. I

52:05

asked him, do you have a message for your

52:07

supporters? He just said, just remain peaceful. No

52:10

matter what happens here, even if the outcome

52:12

is not good, stay peaceful. And

52:15

if the school board does anything crazy, like the

52:17

Satanic Temple already reached out to him saying, we'll

52:19

help out with any legal challenges if you need

52:21

them. And he also had a message

52:23

for the people who don't want the club to exist. Sucks

52:25

to suck. Sucks to suck. Even if the

52:27

group forms, he's a senior. He's going to

52:30

graduate soon. Like many

52:32

student groups just disappear because the person who

52:34

started it and was passionate about it just

52:36

leaves because that's how schools work. So like

52:38

even if you don't like it, give it

52:40

a year, maybe two. It'll probably go away

52:42

on its own. All

52:44

that's to say, if you don't like the club, relax. It

52:46

may not let it run its course. It

52:48

may not be around. It's just

52:50

so easy to ignore. Like truly the

52:53

amount of time I think about like

52:55

Henzel South after school shit when I'm

52:57

driving by on my way home is

52:59

zero times. It's zero times. Yeah, it

53:02

doesn't matter outside the school. I don't give a shit

53:04

what they're doing. And here's the one

53:06

update I've gotten since I wrote about

53:08

this. The school approved the club. Of

53:10

course. Yeah, I think he's going

53:13

to launch it in early January whenever they're

53:15

back from winter break. And like, yeah,

53:17

it's fine. Yeah. It's not a

53:19

big deal. I bet everybody will survive. Yeah. Is

53:21

there going to be backlash? I don't know anymore. Because

53:23

the school district is probably just going to say, like,

53:25

yeah, we're following the rules. Yeah, it seems like they're

53:27

not making a stink about it. This school

53:29

district doesn't seem to have done anything wrong. They

53:31

did exactly what they were supposed to do. Yeah,

53:33

there's a petition online started by somebody. And yeah,

53:36

people are insane on there. But also, who cares

53:38

about them? Their opinions do not matter in this

53:40

case. If you had to place a bet for $100 on

53:42

who wrote that, like

53:44

just in general. I think it is a student

53:47

at the school. I think it's

53:49

a parent of a student at the school. That

53:51

would be my guess. It was written like

53:53

a student. There was a lot of grammar. Then

53:56

again, it could be parent. Yeah,

53:58

that's true. Bye. Yeah,

54:00

we'll see. I hope there's no backlash. There shouldn't be

54:03

and I got one more update from you This

54:05

is a story we covered a couple weeks ago in

54:07

Toledo, Iowa They had a

54:09

nativity scene outside a fire department made of

54:11

wood made of wood Justin

54:17

Scott an atheist in Iowa was driving past

54:19

the display on his way to something else

54:22

entirely And he's not even from the district

54:25

And he's like they can't just have an activity scene

54:27

outside the fire department He alerted

54:29

the freedom from religion foundation FFRF since a

54:31

city sent the city a letter saying

54:34

yeah This is a problem. You should

54:36

fix it After

54:38

they got the letter the city moved that wooden

54:40

display like a block away to some private property

54:42

while they figured out what to do And

54:45

there it says yeah the update to

54:47

this story is that The

54:50

nativity scene is back in front of the fire department

54:52

really But oh,

54:54

but one other thing to point out before

54:56

I get into this the mayor is said

54:59

at the time You know unfortunately it seems

55:01

too many groups want to sue about anything

55:04

Suggesting FFRF was in the wrong here

55:06

like but apparently also his out

55:09

Like oh everybody's so ill attention because we're breaking the

55:11

First Amendment doesn't mean you have to sue me over

55:13

it and officials also said to Local news

55:16

outlets we're meeting with the attorneys. Oh, they

55:18

said this at their City Council meeting We're

55:20

meeting with our attorneys to see if there's

55:22

a legal way to make the display acceptable

55:24

at the fire station Yeah,

55:28

the answers were you had a few options

55:30

you could remove the display you can create

55:33

an open forum So everyone could apply to

55:35

put their display up or you could add

55:37

other things to your display to make sure it's not

55:39

just Jesus shit um They

55:44

don't want to do and Hate

55:46

doing anything they don't want to do and that's a

55:49

far us said you should take it down altogether Justin

55:51

Scott who isn't the lawyer in this case,

55:53

but said I just want you to add

55:55

some stuff to the display but again property

55:58

to have those options And so

56:00

now the display is back in front of the fire department

56:02

and guess what else is there? Tell

56:04

me. A wooden Santa on a sleigh.

56:07

Okay. And a wooden reindeer. And

56:10

that's it. Not it. That's... Look,

56:12

come look at the picture. It's a hilarious

56:14

picture because you have the nativity scene and

56:16

you could tell they just shoved Santa and

56:19

a reindeer to the side of

56:21

it. Oh,

56:23

yeah, it's very clearly a late

56:25

addition to the actual display. Also,

56:29

what universe are we living in that Christmas

56:31

has nothing to do with Christ? Oh, yeah.

56:33

Like, it's no longer just a promotion of the

56:35

Christian faith. It's a promotion of the... It's

56:38

also a promotion of the commercialization

56:40

of the Christian faith. Perfect. But

56:43

problem solved, I guess. Like, the

56:45

truth is there is no clear-cut case

56:47

law that says when a display goes

56:49

from exclusive and illegal to inclusive and

56:51

legal. So the fact is the city

56:54

can probably get away with this, even

56:56

though it is kind of all Christianity

56:58

and Muslims, Satanists, atheists. They do not

57:00

have a way to get their own

57:02

thing here. So, I

57:04

mean, I guess it gives them a

57:06

shield against accusations that it's violating the

57:08

establishment clause. The funny thing

57:10

to me was that the online responses when

57:12

the city posted a picture saying, hey, the

57:15

display is back. Everyone's like, yeah,

57:17

I'm glad you beat those atheists. And

57:20

like, I'm glad you showed them who's

57:22

boss. And they're like, no, they

57:24

listen to the atheists and they change the display.

57:27

The city didn't win here, but

57:29

also the atheists weren't trying to make them lose. They

57:31

just said, you will lose if you keep it the way it is,

57:34

you need to change it. And the city changed it. And

57:37

that's where we're at right now. They could

57:39

have accepted that from the beginning and stopped pretending to

57:41

be persecuting. Right. Instead, they wind and

57:43

wind until they lost, and now they're pretending they won. I

57:46

do love the idea

57:48

of like that thing is

57:50

just like a middle finger

57:52

to atheists. Like, guys, I

57:54

have three jobs. I

57:58

am not focusing my. well-earned

58:00

energy on getting mad at

58:02

a tiny town. Like all

58:04

atheists start like fucking hovering

58:06

around you. Just some of

58:08

us fix your shit if we happen to run

58:10

into it. Would prefer that you follow

58:12

the Constitution. Would be nice. And

58:15

those of us who speak up are speaking

58:17

up on behalf of those who do not

58:19

feel comfortable being like, hey, I kind of

58:21

hate that my city pretends Christianity is the

58:23

only thing when I'm Jewish or Muslim or

58:25

atheist. Slight tangent. There was a lawsuit filed

58:28

this week. I know, I didn't

58:30

read the details of this, but there was a

58:32

lawsuit being filed by a Christian right group this

58:34

week by parents who were suing a school district

58:36

because the teachers and administrators use

58:39

the proper pronouns when referring to their kid. And

58:41

the parents are like, that's not what it says

58:43

in my kid's birth certificate. So how dare you?

58:46

So they're mad that the district respected

58:48

their transgender kid. And the only

58:50

thing my reaction to that is

58:53

if these parents don't, if

58:55

the kid doesn't feel comfortable telling their

58:57

parents about this, but does

58:59

feel comfortable telling their teachers. They're telling them

59:02

themselves. Oh my God, yeah. These parents are

59:04

shitty parents. That's the

59:06

thing. And they don't realize that they're just advertising

59:08

this anymore. I don't want my kids keeping

59:10

secrets from me. Not that secret. Are you

59:12

a person who is accepting of your kid's

59:15

secrets? Or are you mean in the- Oh

59:17

hell no. I would totally mean in judgmental,

59:19

but I accept that. But that's

59:21

why my kids will keep secrets from me. But

59:24

for something like, but I also am not gonna

59:26

tell you, my kid keeps a secret from me

59:29

and I'm gonna file lawsuits everywhere. It's like,

59:31

no, I'm not gonna tell on myself. I

59:33

will just be judgy and silent about it.

59:36

But also Justin Scott, the atheist who brought

59:38

this to people's attention, because he's a better

59:41

human than both of us. Here's his comment

59:43

to a local news station after all this

59:45

happened. I don't believe there's any ill

59:47

intent by the city of Toledo. I think

59:49

it was just something that was nice. It was a nice

59:51

gesture by a nice family. They put it

59:54

up and nobody bothered to notice that

59:56

it was actually a constitutional violation. person

1:00:00

than us. I thought you were

1:00:02

exaggerating from now on. Oh my god,

1:00:04

we're such assholes. Because the

1:00:06

city's argument is this was up for 15 years

1:00:09

and no one complained. And he's like, yeah,

1:00:11

I believe no one complained, but it was wrong.

1:00:13

So I just alerted you and now you fixed it. I'm

1:00:15

glad you did. High five all around everybody. No one

1:00:17

complained or nobody complained to you or nobody complained

1:00:19

to anybody who had listened. By the way, the Catholic

1:00:22

League, which is the right wing crazy

1:00:25

group run by like one dude who

1:00:27

gets a million dollars a year to

1:00:29

put out crazy press releases. Wait, how

1:00:31

can I get that job? Be

1:00:34

crazy. I do. He put out

1:00:36

an insane press release claiming Catholics

1:00:38

were being persecuted. Um, because of

1:00:46

this, he said, I'm paraphrasing,

1:00:49

he sent a letter to the city of

1:00:51

Toledo saying, if FFRF wants to

1:00:53

sue and that you are unable to

1:00:56

access pro bono counsel, we will pay

1:00:58

the legal bills to defend you in

1:01:00

court. And to be clear,

1:01:02

the city said, now we listened to our lawyer and

1:01:04

they said, you just need to add some Santos here.

1:01:06

And we did. So there won't be a lawsuit. But

1:01:09

second, the thing Bill Donohue and the Catholic

1:01:11

League will not tell the city is, yeah,

1:01:14

they'll represent you for free because they can

1:01:16

fundraise over it. But if and when you

1:01:18

lose, that is on you and you would

1:01:20

have to pay the legal bills. So that

1:01:23

they're lying over that. And then and then

1:01:25

the Catholic League in their same press release,

1:01:27

they also dared FFRF to sue over a

1:01:30

Nativity display. They put up near

1:01:32

Central Park in New York City. New

1:01:34

York City has an open forum. They say, if you want

1:01:36

to put up a display, there are some rules you got

1:01:38

to follow. Here's the application and whatnot. I don't know if

1:01:40

there's a fee involved, but the Catholic

1:01:43

League did all that and put

1:01:45

up a Nativity scene somewhere. And

1:01:47

they said, if FFRF wants a

1:01:49

showdown over this, let them sue

1:01:51

the Catholic League for erecting its

1:01:53

Nativity scene in Central Park. It's

1:01:55

not in Central Park. I think it's outside of Central Park,

1:01:58

but also why? Why

1:02:00

would FFRSU when you followed the

1:02:02

law and the city is following

1:02:05

the law? What what do

1:02:07

you think they're gonna do? This is what happens when

1:02:09

you have a straw man argument That's exactly right What

1:02:11

you think atheists do but you don't actually read any

1:02:13

of the shit and get paid a million dollars a

1:02:16

year not to know Any of this well, and

1:02:18

how much money did he have to funnel in to

1:02:20

put in put up that nativity scene that nobody

1:02:22

cares about It's very cheap I mean, okay, it

1:02:24

looks like shit Does it? I

1:02:27

mean it's a nativity Like

1:02:29

a nice job on it. I'm

1:02:31

sure they think I'm really exhausted

1:02:33

by that like the baiting of

1:02:36

lawsuits and then criticizing atheists

1:02:39

for suing like oh

1:02:41

come sue us over this These

1:02:43

people are always suing like guys. I

1:02:45

said Merry Christmas. They're gonna sue over

1:02:47

that. It's like buddy We don't care

1:02:49

about you like truly every time I drive

1:02:51

past a car that has that keep the

1:02:53

Christ in Christmas sticker I'm just like what

1:02:56

are you like? You

1:02:59

mad at like go to your church and

1:03:01

celebrate Jesus have your little nativity scene We

1:03:04

had one in our house growing up do

1:03:06

whatever the fuck you want to do like

1:03:08

I promise I don't care about your ugly family Terrible

1:03:12

family, they're probably smelly you

1:03:15

know like I don't I'm

1:03:17

not trying to watch your lifetime movies

1:03:19

It'll be fine. Okay, you disparage lifetime

1:03:21

movies and not on my watch I

1:03:24

got one last story for you, and it's

1:03:27

a happy one. Okay. I know it's in

1:03:29

Iowa Again, I don't know why I was

1:03:31

really out to give it a try my

1:03:33

friend But there's a public school board the

1:03:35

Waverly Shell Rock community schools in Iowa And

1:03:38

they have apparently two elementary schools that are

1:03:40

no longer in use so the school board

1:03:42

has to decide what to do with these

1:03:44

two Buildings so they could sell the properties

1:03:46

to anyone they want to but they also

1:03:48

don't and they have an open process for

1:03:50

bids They don't have to sell

1:03:52

it right now if they don't like what the

1:03:54

options are they're not under no obligation So they

1:03:58

said this very openly we're not obligated to

1:04:00

accept any proposal, we do not have to sell to

1:04:02

the highest bidder. But we are opening the process, we'd

1:04:04

like to know if anyone wants these two buildings. So

1:04:06

it's the idea they're looking for somebody to do

1:04:08

something worthwhile with the building? Yeah, give us money

1:04:10

for this property of ours. Right, but

1:04:12

don't tear it down to build a condo,

1:04:15

but... Oh no, they totally could if

1:04:17

the offer for the property is amenable

1:04:19

to the board. Okay, so all it

1:04:21

is is they get to make the final call. Yes. There's

1:04:24

no... okay. And so apparently they got

1:04:26

a $5,000 proposal to build an art

1:04:29

center using the facility, whatever, another $5,000

1:04:31

bill... To build

1:04:33

apartments, another $5,000? $5,000,

1:04:35

and I don't know what the additional cost would be, they're

1:04:37

saying, we'll take this off your shoulders and pay whatever

1:04:39

tax burden it is for a little bit of money,

1:04:41

but then we could do whatever we want with it.

1:04:43

But those are on the table. Okay. School

1:04:46

board can decide what to do. A Christian ministry is

1:04:48

the third bidder, and they

1:04:50

said it's called Inspired Life, and

1:04:53

this Christian ministry said, we'll give you $70,000. This

1:04:56

is a brand new word generator at this point. We'll give you $70,000.

1:05:00

As opposed to the $8,000 that we're here, $5,000? Okay.

1:05:03

We'll give you $70,000 to buy

1:05:05

one of the schools, a particular

1:05:07

one, and their hope

1:05:09

is to open up a private Christian school.

1:05:11

Here's the bid. The intended use of the

1:05:13

property will be for the founding of an

1:05:15

accredited private K-8 school called

1:05:18

Waverly Christian School, which is planned

1:05:20

to be, quote, supported through a

1:05:22

partnership with Waterloo Christian School. The

1:05:25

school is expected to have 100 students. The first

1:05:27

year capacity for 200 students. They

1:05:30

also envision an accredited preschool center

1:05:32

of approximately 30 kids. So

1:05:35

it's a private Christian school. Fine. It's

1:05:37

legal. Like they're saying, oh, you have a school.

1:05:39

We're looking for a building. We would pay you

1:05:41

for that option, and we want it at this

1:05:43

building. And also, if you don't

1:05:45

want to give us that building, we'll

1:05:47

put it the same bid for the

1:05:49

other building. Sure. Fine. So that's their

1:05:51

offer. Okay. Maybe to my shock, like

1:05:54

last week, the school, a couple of

1:05:56

weeks ago, the school board unanimously rejected

1:05:59

all the offers. including that

1:06:01

one. And the ministry posted

1:06:03

this on Facebook. Inspired Life

1:06:05

is disappointed that our offer to purchase

1:06:07

property for the purpose of launching Waverly

1:06:09

Christian School was voted down in a

1:06:11

5-0 decision by

1:06:14

the school board. The decision was

1:06:16

made despite Inspired Life submitting the

1:06:18

highest financial offer on either of

1:06:20

the available properties. We believe that

1:06:23

the communities benefit from having access

1:06:25

to educational options that align with

1:06:27

family values. Preventing the sale of

1:06:29

a vacant school building and limiting

1:06:31

access to educational options is not

1:06:33

in the best interest of

1:06:35

Waverly families. Our research demonstrates

1:06:37

considerable demand for Waverly Christian

1:06:39

School and we will continue our

1:06:41

pursuit yada yada yada. It doesn't matter. That's fine. Okay.

1:06:43

They're allowed to be sad. They are allowed to be

1:06:46

sad. They didn't quite get your feelings. They

1:06:48

didn't quite cry persecution. But they were

1:06:50

saying we offer the most money and we deserve

1:06:52

to get the building. And nor did they include

1:06:56

the fact that two other things were rejected

1:06:58

as well, right? Which maybe is not pertinent.

1:07:00

And the thing that was interesting, they did

1:07:02

not mention were there any reasons the board

1:07:04

gave for rejecting their offer. I don't know.

1:07:06

Do they need to? They don't need to.

1:07:08

But I was curious. Like the school board

1:07:10

is so small that I think legally they

1:07:12

do not have to put recordings of their

1:07:14

meetings online. I couldn't see what the discussion

1:07:17

was. But there was an article in a

1:07:19

local newspaper called the Courier that did quote

1:07:21

a couple school board members. So wait for

1:07:23

this. The

1:07:25

backstory you need to know to make sense of

1:07:27

what they're talking about is Iowa, run

1:07:29

by Republicans, now

1:07:32

has a voucher program in place. I

1:07:35

think this it was enacted earlier this

1:07:37

year and it gives taxpayer dollars to

1:07:39

families who want to enroll their kids

1:07:41

in private schools. So this year, nearly

1:07:43

19,000 kids

1:07:46

signed up to receive these

1:07:48

vouchers at a cost of $7,635

1:07:50

per student up to that much. And

1:07:56

critics of these vouchers, they're called what is

1:07:58

it called? education. Why

1:08:01

did you say that like a caveman? I'm looking

1:08:04

at it. I'm trying to look at

1:08:06

the actual thing. Education. Saving account or

1:08:08

something. ESAs. ESAs. Critics of

1:08:10

the ESAs have said this private religious

1:08:12

schools that accept these dollars, they may

1:08:15

be unregulated, they lack accountability, they don't

1:08:17

necessarily accommodate students with special needs. And

1:08:19

of course, this is siphoning away taxpayer

1:08:21

money that could be used to maintain

1:08:24

and improve public schools. So that's all

1:08:26

the backdrop for this. Two

1:08:28

of the school board members said at the meeting

1:08:30

where they rejected the offer, one

1:08:32

of them, one

1:08:35

person offered to reject motion. I

1:08:37

make a motion. Let's reject the

1:08:39

offer. Another school board member seconded

1:08:41

that motion. First one said,

1:08:43

every school dollar now with the new

1:08:45

ESAs goes away from the public school.

1:08:47

We are a public school. We need

1:08:49

to protect the school we're a part

1:08:52

of. The other board member said they

1:08:54

want the public schools to be supported

1:08:56

and strong. I think referring to the

1:08:58

community, any money that we start offering

1:09:00

to other programs limits the dollars we

1:09:02

have so that we can have a

1:09:04

strong school. They're basically saying,

1:09:07

even if it's a good offer,

1:09:09

by allowing, by giving our basic

1:09:12

approval to sell it to a

1:09:14

Christian ministry, we're actually undercutting our

1:09:16

own school district by basically

1:09:18

creating a new place for people to take away

1:09:20

taxpayer money, then use it for private education. How

1:09:22

good is that? $70,000 is looking when you... In the long run. In the

1:09:27

long run, when you said, what, it's

1:09:29

$6K per kid per year? $7.5K per kid

1:09:32

per month. So I'm

1:09:34

not great at math, but you are. What's that?

1:09:37

Four kids? Yeah, it's like

1:09:39

10 kids, not even. But it makes

1:09:41

a lot of sense for a public school board

1:09:43

whose primary obligation is to serve

1:09:46

families receiving a public education to

1:09:48

reject a bid from a private

1:09:50

school that inevitably would make life

1:09:52

worse for public school students. There's

1:09:54

nothing anti-Christian about what they did.

1:09:57

It's saying, we're a public school district. We don't want to

1:09:59

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called Jessica. Oh It's

1:12:19

just the first one from Jade's mom. Lord. I

1:12:22

like Kevin's demeanor and delivery but delivery But

1:12:24

keep coming back for Jessica's righteous anger and

1:12:26

explosive laughter. Thank you for fighting the good

1:12:28

fight. Oh, that's nice Thank you. Jade's mom.

1:12:30

Thank you so much. Um That's

1:12:33

from King clutch 2003 three stars.

1:12:35

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1:12:37

find her superhero Irritating the title is

1:12:39

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