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[00:00:00] Rumneek: Carol, you good? Get over there. Hello buddy. [00:00:02] Carol: I'm just like, I've got, I don't know, feel like when you get old you've got that like burping. [00:00:06] Dr. Gail Murphy: Oh, you're not old. [00:00:08] Carol: I've only recently experienced it and I just remember my grade five teacher would always do that in class and I'm like, that's an old, okay, nevermind. Anyway, hello everyone. [00:00:18] Rumneek: Carol, what is wrong with you. And don't answer that. Just think about it. Hi. Welcome to, From Here [00:00:30] Forward, a UBC Podcast, network podcast. I'm Rumneek and she's Carol. [00:00:35] Carol: Hello, friendly alumni. And yes, I am very embarrassed by the weird burp stuck in my esophagus moment, uh, that you just heard. I just had some gas that needed to be swallowed back down. [00:00:46] Rumneek: I wish I could say that I can't believe that happened, but I would be lying. [00:00:51] Carol: Look, I'm not proud that Dr. Murphy got to witness that, but it is what it is. [00:00:56] Rumneek: Anyways. Speaking of in today's episode, we [00:01:00] spoke with Dr. Gail Murphy, who is a professor of computer science and Vice President of Research and Innovation at ubc. And she's been at the university for like 26 years. [00:01:10] Carol: Her impression of me was probably not as glowing as mine, but after talking to her and getting a feel for her vibe, I feel like she's the definition of a cool academic girly. I wanna be her when I grow up. [00:01:23] Rumneek: Carol, I believe in you, but we also got to learn about computer science in a way that a regular person can understand, because [00:01:30] sometimes I don't know what anything is in terms of technology, as Carol is aware. But she also spoke to us about her research and how it relates to productivity. [00:01:39] Carol: I think that's a good way to, uh, segue into the conversation. So without further ado, let's get productive. [00:01:50] Rumneek: So, as mentioned earlier, your research focuses on worker productivity. What areas of productivity do you focus on and what can you tell us about what makes workers [00:02:00] unproductive? [00:02:00] Dr. Gail Murphy: What we look at in my research group is how do we make people more productive by really giving them the information they need when they need it as they're doing their job. We've done a number of projects that have put different tools into software development for software developers, and maybe one of the things we've learned along the way is that. The way that we can improve how they work is to actually get rid of the stuff that is not useful for what they're doing. Uh, if we think about software development, uh, which as I said is what we [00:02:30] study, developers can end up moving through really big information spaces, define just the piece of code or just the piece of documentation they need. And when we can surface that information through using recommender systems or other kinds of machine learning techniques, we're able to. Circumvent a lot of clicks that they might usually do and bring the information right to the four for them. We basically study how people work. Uh, we then try to introduce tools to improve parts of their work, and then we go back [00:03:00] and we do the whole route thing and we study again with it actually improves their work practices. [00:03:04] Carol: As I was listening to you, I was like, I know what software is and I know all that stuff individually, but I guess. From a kind of more of a simplified definition, like what is computer science? Because in my head it's like coding, but I'm sure that it's more nuanced than that. Um, so for the average person who is like, I think it's just coding, what, how would you define it in addition to your research? [00:03:24] Dr. Gail Murphy: So computer science spans a really wide breadth of interest that we have in the Department of Computer slides [00:03:30] here in Vancouver. And the, the companion department in the Okanagan, people look at questions of theory. So what is the fastest that we can constantly solve a particular problem? And then more to the area that I'm interested in, which is how do we express the code that underlies the systems that you might use? And how do we make sure people can build them really effectively? So software developers work with tools that we call integrated development environments that, um, allow them to access millions of lines of code. [00:04:00] So what we do is watch how they go through that information that's being displayed to them, and try and understand where there's a lot of friction in their workday so that we can put a tool in there to recommend, uh, instead of having them navigate through the information to make their their workday more productive. [00:04:16] Carol: Speaking of coding, I had a friend who was studying computer sciences and she basically said that like, it requires a skill of storytelling. And I'm just curious, um, like, I guess I thought that was a weird thing to say about computer sciences and [00:04:30] coding, but I'm just curious from your perspective, like, is storytelling an essential part of computer sciences? Of coding and kind of generally that area of work. [00:04:39] Dr. Gail Murphy: So I like this idea on storytelling as what a software developer does during the day. One thing that surprises a lot of people is that software developers don't often spend most of their day actually writing code. They spend a lot of their time trying to understand what coach should be written. For instance, there's software developers who might spend time [00:05:00] try to understand what the customer wants in the actual code that we'll eventually run. And then there's a lot of work for big development and actually talking to all the people that are involved. So there'll be people who are defining what it should do. There's people who are defining how the software should be written. There's people who are actually writing it. There's people who are testing it. So a lot of the day is actually about collaborating and try to understand what you should be doing before you actually go and write the precise code that is gonna eventually be delivered to a [00:05:30] customer and provide some functionality. [00:05:31] Carol: Within your role as both professor and VP like, is there anything that you've been very proud of that you've been a part of in terms of contributing to UBC's research or just as an institution that you're like, yeah. [00:05:44] Dr. Gail Murphy: Can I say two things? [00:05:45] Carol: Yeah, go ahead. [00:05:46] Dr. Gail Murphy: So there's two things I'm really excited about from my role as VP Research and innovation, what is the work that we've done to bring researchers from different disciplines together to solve really hard problems? And these are [00:06:00] problems that the researchers see themselves and they self-organize. And we provide a mechanism for some funding to make it possible for them to undertake the work. So some examples that have come together are, for instance, a cluster around bees and try to understand how we can. Say more about our environment and where there's pollutants in our environment by actually analyzing the honey that's in beehives from different places around the lower mainland. And this is gonna give us really interesting insights [00:06:30] into how pollutants are moving through our environment. This brought together researchers from the faculty of sciences, from the faculty of line infant systems that might not have otherwise worked together on this problem, but we were able to excite something in a new direction. Uh, another example is researchers that came together around wearable devices and trying to understand. How you might be able to put sensors into fabrics so that we can not only help people maybe in their athletic performance, but also help people if they're facing some challenges, uh, due [00:07:00] to some condition that they might have acquired Somehow that is carried through to looking at problems like climate change. We've also brought together researchers in a climate change symposium that was virtual between both campuses brought together 600 researchers that were talking about fair and just transitions of new kind of energy systems to net zero energy. And hearing from those researchers that they had found new connections at UBC was really gratifying. Another project that's been really exciting has been our [00:07:30] Dimensions project, which we're looking at how we can improve equity and inclusion within our research ecosystem. And for two years we had a team joint with the equity and inclusion office trying to understand what the barriers and obstacles are for people from very different backgrounds to get involved in research. And we have a wonderful action plan that's come out with that will be being taken forward through the equity inclusion office to really try to make sure that we can have everyone involved in research, which we know those diverse opinions, diverse perspectives, will lead [00:08:00] to much better outcomes. [00:08:01] Rumneek: We also know that you've been in many leadership roles during your career, so what are a few lessons you've learned along the way on being a good leader? [00:08:09] Dr. Gail Murphy: So one of the things I've learned about leadership is the importance of really listening to what your community needs from the environment. For us, it's the research environment and try to be responsive in putting in place policies and programs that can really help address the issues. That people are finding that [00:08:30] might be preventing them from achieving what they most want to achieve and then trying to understand how you can empower the people around you and put in place those programs and policies that can really, uh, last beyond, uh, Your leadership role so that we can really make a change to, to how UBC proceeds in the future. [00:08:48] Carol: I've listened to some leadership podcasts recently and they're always like, real leaders wake up at 6:00 AM and drink coffee and do ice baths. So I'm just wondering like, you know, for you to lead a group as [00:09:00] VP and kind of help with collaboration, like how do you kind of ground yourself before your work day even begins to best show up for your team and people who rely on you. [00:09:09] Dr. Gail Murphy: I always find that my best days start when I manage to get some exercise in the morning and sort of focus my day by getting my body going. So whether it's, uh, biking or whether it's getting in the swimming pool, uh, you know, that's always the best start to my day. And then I'm just so privileged to work with such a wonderful key, uh, across both [00:09:30] campuses that I think the energy that one can get from collaboration really makes a difference in how you feel that you can loop. Forward on the problems solving, the problems that people are facing within, within our UBC research and innovation environment. So one thing I've learned about leadership in the past has been the importance of. Forming an idea together with a team. And when you form an idea together with a team and then ensure the community is [00:10:00] aligned with the way the team wants to take things, you can really put in place changes that will stick within the environment. And if you just try to move an idea through without the buy-in of those around you, it's probably not going to actually be sticky and you know, perhaps that's not gonna end up with the outcome that you wanted. On the research side, I think one of the challenges we all face as researchers is that often things don't work the first time and often the first time you try to maybe publish your results. Maybe [00:10:30] it isn't quite ready for actual publication and you get feedback that might not be as positive as you were expecting. So one of the most important traits for research, for innovation is perseverance and believing in your ideas, but listening to the feedback and really making sure that you're continuing to improve what you're doing as you work through the criticisms you might be getting. Because the end, in the end, they'll end up with a better result. [00:10:57] Carol: Sounds like it's grit. [00:10:59] Dr. Gail Murphy: It [00:11:00] is grit. That's a good description. [00:11:01] Carol: You went to U of A, but then you found yourself here, so like you've stayed here for so long. Um, what is it about BC you're like, yeah, I don't wanna go back to Alberta. [00:11:11] Dr. Gail Murphy: I went to the University of Alberta as an undergraduate and then I ended up coming up to Vancouver to be a software developer. Did some journeys to Washington State to be a graduate student. Ended up coming back here to UBC. When I joined UBC, I would describe it as, uh, more of a provincial [00:11:30] university. That was excellent at both teaching and research, and that's what really attracted was the fact that it really balanced ensuring that there was great education being provided to students and classes. And an opportunity to do world-class research. Over the last 26 years, I've really seen UBC grow into a global institution. I think everything I had maybe hoped I would find at UBC I've found, and I found even more. I think, uh, we've been able to achieve in my research group results that I wouldn't have dreamed [00:12:00] possible. What has made by stay at UBC'. I think it is the people that are UBC, the people that are just a joy to collaborate with, that I learn from each and every day that I'm here. And just seeing the amazing discoveries and insights that we have from all around different parts of campus just make UBC a place that you can continue to grow at and it's just a wonderful place to, to be able to live, work, and play. [00:12:26] Rumneek: What advice do you have for students who are interested in pursuing [00:12:30] research at UBC? [00:12:31] Dr. Gail Murphy: One of the hopes I have for undergraduates at UBC is that they find a way to get engaged in a research project. Maybe going to a research talk and learning a little bit about what it's about. It can seem intimidating, but really once you get involved with a group or with a professor, I think many people find that it's not as mysterious as one might think. And it's always possible to come back as a graduate student or get engaged in [00:13:00] different ways to be part of our ecosystem. At UBC I worked for five years before I went back and became a graduate student. I'm really glad that I did that because it's really opened up a new world of opportunities over the course of my career for people who might not wanna come back and study more. We do have opportunities for mentoring undergraduate students. There's opportunities around to get involved with new companies and try and help them on their journey and [00:13:30] interact with students, faculty and staff that way. So if you get back in engaged with alumni, UBC and with your faculties and your departments, I think you'll find ways to be involved and be part of the excitement of UBC going forward. [00:13:43] Carol: I think it was Dr. Cullis said that, uh, he tries really hard to keep the talent of his team here. And, I'm sure with computer sciences, everyone's kind of poaching and trying to go to the US and stuff, was what he said in terms of like trying to keep everyone here something that you resonated with or is that something [00:14:00] that um, is kind of just like part of the work in computer sciences field? [00:14:05] Dr. Gail Murphy: So as a faculty member, I think we always wanna see our students flourish after their time at UBC, whether they're undergraduate students or graduate students. I've certainly had students that have gone back to perhaps the country that they came from to find their career path. And that's great. And I've had students who have decided to settle here in BC and students that were from BC and found a career here along the way. With [00:14:30] one of the graduate students for the lab and a research engineer we did found a company in BC and one of the most satisfying parts of my career has been seeing that company flourish. And so many people from UBC find a career that fit for them and their family here in British Columbia. UBC has grown into a research powerhouse within the country and on the world stage. I think all of us should be really proud of what UBC researchers have achieved from the [00:15:00] Okanogan and the Vancouver campuses and find a way to, to get engaged, stay abreast of the stories. Researchers from UBC are really changing the world and I think we can all be very proud of the progress that they are doing in solving some of the world's hardest problems. [00:15:20] Carol: Dare I say, the conversation was very much Tuum Est energy. [00:15:25] Rumneek: I am very surprised that you remembered the UBC motto and [00:15:30] tried to use it in earnest. [00:15:31] Carol: To say that I remembered would be an understatement. I did have to Google that before I said it out loud. [00:15:36] Rumneek: That definitely adds up. It's not like we host a podcast for UBC or anything. [00:15:41] Carol: Another day, another conversation that not so subtly reminds us, me alumni, that having studied at UBC is something to be proud of. [00:15:51] Rumneek: Period. Congrats Carol. Good for us. [00:15:53] Carol: Thanks. Heard bet. [00:15:56] Rumneek: You throw in as many Gen Z words as you can. [00:15:59] Carol: You know, we're [00:16:00] trying to educate the alums, okay? [00:16:02] Rumneek: Keep them young as as we do. [00:16:04] Carol: But you know, one of these days, Rumneek is going to let me say UBC besties since girly pops might be a bit too cringy for all of us. So anyway, Tuum Est everyone. Tuum Est. [00:16:15] Rumneek: Thanks everyone for listening. Make sure you catch our next episode by subscribing or following our show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're feeling the feels. Please drop us a review. You can also find me on Twitter @rumneeek with [00:16:30] three E's . [00:16:30] Carol: And me @CarolEugenePark. [00:16:32] Rumneek: Today's episode was recorded at CiTR Radio and engineered by Hina Imam. From Here Forward is an alumni UBC podcast produced by Podium Podcast Company.