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[00:00:00] Carol: Hello, friendly alumni. Welcome back to From Here Forward, your favorite UBC Podcast Network podcast. I'm Carol and she's Jeevan. [00:00:08] Jeevan: That's me. [00:00:09] Carol: So, we've got a fun, little, fizzy, fresh, freaking local episode to start off 2024 for y'all. 2024. [00:00:18] Jeevan: So, carol and I sat down with a UBC alumni guest, who is an entrepreneur from the Okanagan Valley. [00:00:24] Carol: We had a lot of fun with this guest, mainly because Jeevan and I do have a dream to have a farm of our own, separately. One day, would love to have some pears growing in my backyard. Maybe we too will be entrepreneurs. Maybe we too will be, you know, guests on this podcast and we will also have amazing fruity fresh drinks. You know what I mean, Jeevan? Am I talking for you? [00:00:48] Jeevan: I can see the vision so clearly. Like, I just feel like that's the life we should be living. One day. So, this week, we sat down with Avi Gill, a farmer and a juice maker in Kelowna, BC. He lived on a family farm for 30 years and when his dad sat down with him and talked about what he wanted to do with the farm, eventually ended up turning it into a really successful juice making company. [00:01:11] Carol: And my favorite part is that he was actually trained as a pharmacist. Isn't that amazing? A pharmacist who likes to farm. And I love that for him, because now, you know, if you need medicine and you need juice, like, Avi is your guy. [00:01:27] Jeevan: I loved hearing about his journey into a new industry. I feel like we both learned a lot. And also, fun fact, Avi actually met his wife at UBC, and they own the company together, which Carol and I just thought was adorable. [00:01:39] Carol: That is the meet-cute of the meet-cutes, like, I want to do that. [00:01:42] Jeevan: Totally. That's the dream. [00:01:43] Carol: That's all to say, we hope you enjoy this episode. Grab a frizzy drink and listen up folks, because here is Avi. [00:01:52] So let's start with introducing yourself and telling us a bit about what you do. [00:01:55] Avi: Yeah. Hi guys, so thanks for having me. My name's Avi, I live in Kelowna, BC. I'm a juice maker here. My family's been farming, uh, in the Okanagan for a long time, uh, 30 years. And, uh, recently we started taking our fruit and turning it into fruit beverages. [00:02:10] Jeevan: Awesome. And so, you mentioned coming from a farming family. Can you tell us a bit about what it was like growing up in that environment? Did you ever think that you'd end up taking the farm over one day? [00:02:20] Avi: Growing up in a farming family, you're always told to go get your education and then don't come back to farming because it's hard work. So, uh, that's what I did. I went away to UBC for about 10 years, but growing on a farm was awesome. I have one younger brother, and we helped out on the farm quite a bit and it was, it was a great unique experience. And I never thought I'd be back, but here I am. I, I went to school, and I became a pharmacist, but I didn't do that for very long, and now I'm back in the farming world. [00:02:50] Carol: You know, I just, I just had a thought, farmer, pharmacist. [00:02:54] Avi: Yeah, yeah, I've used that one a few times already, but that's a good thought. A lot of people just look at me funny when I say that, but I am kind of a farmercist, so. [00:03:05] Carol: I mean, it works. [00:03:06] Avi: And I do keep my, I do keep my license alive. I don't practice right now. Every year I do my continued education and uh, keep my license, active, so. [00:03:14] Carol: Okay, great. So, on that thread, I mean, when I picture a farm, I'm picturing a literal barn. So, paint a picture of what a fruit farm looks like and what your farm looks like? [00:03:24] Avi: Well, there are barns, mostly for storing tools and stuff. So, a fruit farm, uh, what it looks like is basically apple trees, cherry trees. There's different ways of planting them. Sometimes people picture it as, you know, these big, massive apple trees. It's actually not like that anymore. There's plantings that are called high density now. So smaller trees that are closer together and the reason for doing that is you get more volume out of an acre. So that's kind of what it looks like. And so, we mostly grow apples, cherries, and a little bit of pear. But yeah, it's a great experience. If you guys ever get a chance to come to Kelowna, there's a lot of agriculture that happens in this region. [00:04:03] Jeevan: You mentioned keeping your pharmacist license and your practice alive, I guess, keeping up with your continued education. Tell us a bit about your time at UBC. And even though you're in a different field now, did you take any of the learnings from your like respective studies into your time as an entrepreneur now? [00:04:22] Avi: Yeah, so my, my journey at UBC was a great one, I mean, I would never change that for anything. I gradded in 2007 in Kelowna, I grew up here. And then at the time, uh, all my cousins and all my family had gone through the UBC Vancouver program and UBC Okanagan was not what it is today. But so, I followed their path, I did a general science degree at UBC, and then I got into the pharmacy program. Of course, that journey was amazing, not only to meet people, my wife, Binny, we actually met at UBC. but also, the skills that you learn at UBC, they can be applied at, on a day-to-day level. I still use, you know, the ability to handle pressure, or prioritize, or how to get through tough situations. I think it teaches you a lot outside of just education. [00:05:12] Carol: A cute, meet-cute moment, romantic, no? [00:05:14] Avi: Oh yeah, yeah, So, um, yeah, I met my wife there. So, we were on a UBC Bhangra club, it's a, uh, kind of group there that, uh, raises funds for BC Children's Hospital at the time. So yeah, I used to actually be a singer, uh, so there's something that, uh, culture show that happened. So, I started doing a gig there. Uh, so it's a big show that the Bhangra Club puts on. So, I used to be the singer and my wife Binny was the captain of the bhangra team, captain, or maybe not, but she was really good at it. I can't dance at all, I only sing. But basically, so she did that and we did meet. It was awesome, like we had a good group of friends that, uh, that were involved in those extracurricular activities and made it a really good journey. [00:06:00] Carol: That is so cute. I mean, I feel like that's the 21st century dream. You know, you get to grow in love and in business. [00:06:07] Jeevan: And since you launched it, I mean, it's only really been a few years and the growth has been immense, but you mentioned that kind of steep learning curve. Can you explain that a little bit more and tell us a bit about what some of those early roadblocks or entrepreneurial obstacles you might've faced? [00:06:24] Avi: Yeah, no, for sure. My background is in pharmacy and science, so that has nothing to do with manufacturing. And then my, my parents, they're farmers, so we have that aspect. I mean, it, it really started with my dad kind of asking us what we wanted to do with his farming business, and the answer was juice. [00:06:43] My dad is a mentor to me in business. He has done a very good job there, so we did have that baseline. By just getting the equipment, not knowing what three phase power was or what it takes to operate equipment, then that's step one. And then making the juice and actually having it taste good, that's a whole ‘nother challenge. [00:07:02] Our core values are no preservatives, no sugars added, no artificial flavors or concentrate. So, we try to make it from real juice, but we learned quickly that that poses problems, and then juice starts going bad quickly and things like that. So, we had to go through those challenges and at the time, there's no book you can read to tell you how to do things. So, we relied heavily on our community to help us with that. Like there are juicing companies in Kelowna that helped us, uh Kalala Winery is one that always gets a shout out from us because I remember I went over to Kalala Winery, and they actually showed me how their equipment works. I even had microscopes out at one point trying to find like yeast cells and stuff like that. [00:07:44] But no, like I said, every aspect of the business requires learning. So, our first product was apple soda. So, it's taking one ambrosia apple, juicing it into a can and the rest with carbonated water. So, when we started, when we had a good tasting apple soda, to get it in a grocery store is a whole different ballgame. And there's a gentleman here, um, Peter, he has an Independent Grocer in Kelowna, and he was kind enough to give us a shot and he's a really, uh, big community advocate. So, he gave us a shot there and we learned a lot, I still talk to him about those types of things. And then once you're in a grocery store, then you gotta figure out how to get a customer to pick up your product. So, that is even a bigger challenge. And these things that I'm mentioning, it's still an ongoing process for us, we've only been doing this for three to four years. So, on a day to day, we keep learning. [00:08:37] Carol: Have you tried the influencers? [00:08:42] Avi: I think I tried one influencer once, but I didn't take a very good shot at it. That's kind of what I'm trying to figure out now. So just being candid here, we're just getting to a point where we believe we're available, at least in BC. We feel like if somebody, if we told somebody on Facebook to go try this awesome drink, I think it's accessible, say, to somebody that's living in the lower mainland. [00:09:05] But now I think, this summer, uh, having an influencer might be something we're interested in. Our thoughts were that if we're not available, or we're only in Kelowna, or we don't have a way for the consumer to get the product, then that's probably not the best thing at the beginning. But I think we're finally happy to be in this point where we're accessible. So, I will give that a shot this year. [00:09:27] Carol: I just say that because anytime anyone on TikTok is like, I'm drinking this thing, and I'm like, what are you drinking? I want it. [00:09:34] Avi: Yeah, I get that a lot. And then people say that I should go on Dragon's Den. I get that presented to us all the time too, but yeah, maybe that's in the pipeline. I mean, it's been a wild journey. We just take it wave by wave and a lot of it is luck just mixed with hard work, so it's been good. [00:09:52] Carol: So, speaking on kind of previously you mentioned about like expansion stuff, um, so it has been four years and yet within those four years there's so many different products that you guys have put out. [00:10:03] From an entrepreneur perspective, like, when is the right time to branch out to new products? How do you time that? [00:10:09] Avi: With us, it's, uh, like, I gotta be honest, it's just, just guesswork because we're growing at such a fast pace. I'll take you through our journey of our product line. So, our first product, the Apple Soda that I talked about, that came out in late 2019, about three months before COVID hit. COVID happened and then all of a sudden, we found that we were in Safeway, so we were really happy to be in Safeway, that's a big customer. But we only had single cans, so everybody stopped going for lunches during the COVID era, and so none of those would sell. Then we had to come up with a six-pack box, but we found that the brand presence is just not enough on a shelf, like having one flavor. [00:10:53] So, then we branched out into three flavors. So, apple soda, cherry soda, and peach soda and we won some awards for doing that through Sobeys. So that was cool. And then we're like, Hey, that's pretty, that's awesome. Like now we're getting like triple the revenue trying to make it work. So, then we came out with our final two fruit soda flavors, which are berry and pear, and the pear actually got recognized by the BC Food and Beverage as product of the year. We won silver that, that year that we launched. Now we're working on mocktails, and we have four flavors. There's a mojito, a mule, a mimosa, and a cosmo. And those ones just, uh, we didn't expect the amount of just popularity with those products. [00:11:37] You know what, I think in certain ways, things get easier as our journey continues. I remember knocking door to door, with our apple soda just to get into a coffee shop or whatever. And now when we launched our mocktails, it's like, okay, here's 500 stores just because we have relationships already with them and we are a reputable company that they're like, yeah, Karma is making a mocktail. So yeah, we might come up with a new brand line this year as well, but I don't know what that is yet and we'll see where it ends up. [00:12:06] Jeevan: And I think too, another piece of that, like expansion or bringing in a new element is agritourism and like opportunities for people to like come and experience a tasting room or a tour of like how you make your products. It's something we're seeing more and more of now too, I think. So how do you think, why do you think that's important for Farming Karma and what kind of opportunities does it bring you that are unique? [00:12:28] Avi: Yeah, so our facility at Farming Karma there, you can actually see us making juice. So, there's windows set up where you can see the canning happening and the juicing happening. And we, we do tours for kids as well on where they can get an up-close look at how, what we do and how we do it. And I think that is important. I think that aspect, I mean, it's great for marketing, great for the business. When we get a chance to talk on say a platform like this or talk to a large retailer, we explain how we go from planting a tree to growing an apple to juicing an apple to putting it in a can and eventually to the consumer. It gives us that story to tell. [00:13:06] But then the original motive for that was when we were actually transitioning from here, like I mentioned earlier, we were always told to go to school and, you know, farming's not a, um, viable career. And in a lot of ways, it isn't, there's a lot of struggles in farming financially. And there's kind of that chip on our shoulder that we're, we want to inspire the next generation and kind of make farming cool and make it transition into something that's like, you know, that you can be brand. And I think the wine industry has done a great job of that, where they have their wine from this particular winery is unique because of the brand, right? And we want to bring that into the non-alcoholic sector. [00:13:47] Carol: I mean, especially now, I feel like a lot of young people are like, you know, I'll just like ditch urban life and go start my own farm. [00:13:55] Avi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it, there's so many challenges. I mean, we're lucky that my family has been kind of doing it for a while, so we get that head start. But I have some young farmer friends where, you know, the barrier to entry is so large, like the property value is so high for you to start and then purchase your tractors and equipment and break that, it's a tough gig. But I think my parents, I'm glad they continued on with that career. Um, even though I know growing up, it wasn't always easy financially or the amount of work that goes into it. But, but, um, I'm glad we were able to pivot it into something that is viable. [00:14:34] Carol: So, speaking on that, you know, in the next 5, 10 years, what is the vision or the aspirations that Farming Karma has for itself? [00:14:42] Avi: Yeah, so we're, we're growing exponentially right now. So, some of the things that we face today are how to transition from a small business to a medium sized business, so we're tackling those challenges. There's no really cap the way that my immediate family's wired, we don't say like, okay, this is where we're gonna just stop and just plateau, but, so we're gonna keep growing it as far as we can. [00:15:04] With us, there's a unique opportunity for us to have every apple has a home kind of thing going on. So, in the apple industry, even if there's a small dent on an apple, you know, it either goes to juicing or it gets thrown out, uh, just because it's not acceptable for the retail stores or shelves. So, we have a unique opportunity here that every apple, that we grow can have a home. So, the ones that are really high quality, they can be consumed as just apples. And then the ones that are, have that little dent or are a little bit more commercial quality, they can be juiced. So, that's our ultimate goal to be able to take every apple that we have and kind of, uh, handle it in house and get it to the right avenue so that there's minimal waste and it'll go towards that positive sustainability that we try to achieve. [00:15:55] Jeevan: You know, UBC students and recent grads who are in a program, and they maybe don't know what career they're going to go into, or maybe they're considering entrepreneurship, do you have any advice for them, um, especially reflecting on your journey this far? [00:16:09] Avi: Yeah, no, I think a lot of the time sometimes, especially near at the beginning when we were, we had the investment, but we were struggling as a juice company. You know, I used to get the questions that, hey, you spent so much time studying and becoming a pharmacist. Are you sure you want to go back into farming and let that go? But I think on a day to day, I'm a big advocate for everything I learned at UBC is applied to my daily life. Whether, um, just those skills, that skill set is important. [00:16:38] So for somebody who wants to get into, you know, wants to become an entrepreneur, I think having a financial background is very important, I know that's where I struggled. Uh, growing up in a science field, uh, like I didn't like, I didn't know anything about banking, and I actually still don't know. My, my wife is now a commercial banker, so she deals with a lot of that stuff. But I think financial literacy is important, just taking courses like that. But from my journey as being a pharmacist and now doing something completely opposite, I think no matter what career you're choosing in UBC or any other institution, you'll always have that overlap of skills on how to apply them to various fields. So yeah, that's what I would say to a up and coming entrepreneur. [00:17:21] Carol: So, kind of speaking on the hardships in the beginning and kind of getting your footing, the door-to-door aspect of this, like, you know, let's say, you know, I mean, I'm not starting a farm. But I feel like, in theory, it doesn't sound, like, awful, but the door-to-door sales freaks me out. So, like, is that something that you had to kind of overcome? Are you a natural salesperson? Like, is, you know, is that a skill that you had to develop? [00:17:42] Avi: Yeah, it's actually a lot of its trial and error, right? So, when we had our, say, first we made a pallet of apple soda. So, I had about 3, 000 cans and then it's like, how do you sell the cans, uh, nobody's coming up to my shop, nobody knows it exists. It just went up on Google a week ago. So, then it's like, well, why don't we pack our bags? Cause at the time we don't have anything better to do. Then it's like door-to-door sales, and, uh, to be honest, it didn't work that well. Like, I think we picked up out of maybe like 50 stores, we knocked, maybe like three. But that's where a person like, uh, Peter's independent or Ed from Lakeview market, that's where, to me, they're community leaders, where they gave the young kid an opportunity to, you know, put us on a grocery store shelf. And it actually started taking off from there because Peter wouldn't only just put it on the shelf, he would, customers would come in and he'd be like, check this out. [00:18:40] And I always tell a funny story with Peter. I walked in, he asked me about the drink, and I showed him. And he said, what's your minimum order? And I said, a pallet. And that's the wrong thing to say. I mean, I'm a brand-new person, I'm telling him to buy 3,000 cans from me. That's how 3,000 cans. But he just took it, he understood that I'll, that I'm new to the game. And he's just like, sure, give me a pallet. So, I shipped him a pallet, but then I still apologize to him every time that, hey, thanks for taking a chance on a pallet. But no, just having an opportunity. I think a lot of its luck. But I do believe that if you're working hard, the luck will come your way. [00:19:16] Jeevan: Okay. I think that's a great note to leave it on. Trust the process and good things will come your way. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been so much fun chatting and we've had a great time learning more about Farming Karma and your journey. [00:19:28] Avi: Thanks, guys. Thanks for taking the time out and even thinking about us, but I'm happy that you guys came across our product. I appreciate you guys giving us a platform to tell our story. My wife, she's very good at podcasts. I usually, I take the backseat now. I just make juice. [00:19:44] Jeevan: And if you're ever in the need for professional taste testers, Carol and I are really good at that. Like, we're just so good at tasting things and giving opinions. [00:19:53] Carol: The notes. Yeah, we're really good. [00:19:55] Avi: Well, in the winter, we develop our new product line. So we have a couple of things on the, so if you guys ever get a chance to come to Kelowna, uh, let me know, or I can ship you guys some samples But the catch is you gotta tell me, you can't just tell me it's good. [00:20:09] Jeevan: We're still waiting on those samples. Like, Carol and I have phenomenal abilities to provide in depth feedback on a variety of beverages. I mean, maybe that's also in our future. I don't know. [00:20:21] Carol: You're so right, actually. You know what? Scratch the farming, that's not our calling. We're taste testers. So, anyone listening, if you're like a small business entrepreneur who wants to like girl boss your way up to the top, like give us a shout out, send us some samples, and we will give you our honest critique. And we will help you achieve success. [00:20:39] Jeevan: Support small businesses, y'all. That's Carole and I's mission. [00:20:42] Carol: You know, I like that #CJlocal. [00:20:45] Jeevan: Yeah, has a ring to it. Has a ring to it for sure. [00:20:47] Carol: Anyway, thanks everyone for listening. Make sure you catch our next episode by subscribing or following our show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're feeling your feels, please drop us a review and you can find me on Twitter @CaroleEugenepark. [00:21:02] Jeevan: And me @JeevanKsangha. From Here Forward is an alumni UBC podcast produced by Podium Podcast Company.