0:24

Hi, everyone, and welcome to From Lab

0:26

to Launch by Qualio. I'm Meg,

0:28

your host. Thanks for tuning in today.

0:31

Before we get started, we love it. If you rated

0:33

the podcast, it's easy to do and

0:35

share it with any of your science and nerd friends,

0:38

we know you have some, if you'd like

0:40

to be on the show, please leave, please

0:42

see the show notes for an application. We'll get connected

0:44

that way. Today

0:47

we have Luca Yankopolis, CEO

0:49

of Grapevine Technologies on the show.

0:51

He and his team built a platform to uproot

0:54

the old way of obtaining medical supplies

0:56

by connecting buyers with trusted wholesale

0:58

suppliers. This gives buyers

1:01

access to lower prices and a seamless

1:03

online ordering process. His

1:05

passion for improving inefficiencies in

1:07

the healthcare supply chain began when he founded

1:09

a medical supplies distribution company

1:12

in the middle of the pandemic, Pandemic

1:14

Relief Supply, or PRS, which

1:17

delivered over 20 million in

1:20

critical supplies. We're going to dive

1:22

deeper into the supply chain of life saving

1:24

products in this episode. So let's jump

1:26

in. Welcome luca, we're glad

1:28

to have you here.

1:30

Thanks. I'm, I'm glad to be here. And

1:32

I'm a big fan of the show. Listen to the last two releases.

1:34

I don't know if there'll be the most recent two once this one

1:36

comes out, but Phil Wagner and John Abbott. Uh,

1:39

so that was pretty cool. But yeah, glad

1:41

to be from fan to now

1:43

interviewee. It's kind of a cool, cool

1:45

upgrade for me.

1:47

From lab to launch, from listener to

1:49

interviewee. Here we go. Exactly. Yeah.

1:52

So let's kick it off with your backstory,

1:55

um, behind Grapevine Technologies and what

1:57

made you want to start this company?

1:59

Yeah, for sure. Sure. So. I

2:01

was actually focused on, uh,

2:03

renewable energy, uh, research

2:06

when I was last in the lab, and I was in the

2:08

lab pretty much every summer of

2:10

my high school career, and then through

2:12

college, and I

2:14

was actually working in a lab on,

2:16

uh, new sort of nanotechnology

2:19

for sequencing the human genome at

2:21

the time that COVID

2:23

broke out and COVID

2:26

sort of set me on a path of

2:28

first understanding problems that existed

2:30

out there in healthcare supply chains. And

2:33

more recently, you know, trying to

2:35

solve those problems, uh, you

2:37

know, sort of head on.

2:41

So thinking of the traditional supply

2:43

chain, can you paint a picture for us of

2:46

how COVID impacted that and changed

2:48

what that supply chain looks like

2:49

now? Yeah, totally.

2:51

So I know it's, I

2:54

think everyone saw it probably in the news. It was on the news every

2:56

single day. And I definitely heard a lot about

2:58

the sort of failures of, you know,

3:00

supply chain failures amidst the pandemic.

3:03

Um, but obviously,

3:06

you know, Covid, at least

3:08

to me, was a catalyst for something

3:10

that was on a crash collision course for

3:12

a long time. Uh, these healthcare supply

3:15

chains haven't changed much in the

3:17

past 30 years, and the people sort

3:19

of running them and engineering them have

3:21

not changed. In the past 30 years.

3:23

And, uh, you know, a

3:25

lot of the practices and that sort of pace

3:28

of moving products from manufacturer

3:30

to end user there,

3:32

they're what McKinsey would say

3:34

is 30 years behind that of something like

3:36

fast moving consumer goods or product

3:39

categories that you and I may be familiar

3:41

with in our own personal lives. So

3:43

you've got, you know, inventory sitting

3:46

on shelves, right? of warehouses

3:48

for over 180 days before

3:50

it ever, you know, even gets moved.

3:52

You've got, um, you know, things

3:55

thus, as a result, sort of expiring

3:57

on shelves and then being thrown away.

4:00

Um, you've got things being redundantly

4:02

shipped from A to B to C to D all the

4:04

way before it goes to the customer at Z. And

4:06

all these things pile up and ultimately all

4:08

these things drive up the cost of medical supplies

4:11

for medical practices. And as a result,

4:14

the cost of health care go up for

4:16

people like you and me as patients. So

4:20

it's, it's, it's a pretty interesting sort of

4:22

problem to engage with. It's something that,

4:24

you know, I really didn't see myself getting involved with

4:26

until the pandemic. Um, like

4:28

I said, I was focused on renewable energy. That was

4:30

my passion. It was the biggest

4:32

problem. I understood that our

4:34

generation would face. And

4:37

I like to think that, you know,

4:39

if you take the biggest problems that, you

4:41

know, your generation faces or that people may face

4:44

across borders and whatnot, and you aim

4:46

to solve them, you can reach commercial

4:48

success. And that's, you know, a lesson that my dad

4:50

taught me. And it's something that I believe.

4:52

And that's why I was studying renewable energy. It's

4:54

why I was in the lab doing what I was doing at

4:56

the time. And it's You know, now what's

4:58

led me to, um, you know,

5:00

supply chain engineering with grapevine.

5:03

Yeah. I think there's

5:04

some impacts there. If you're helping

5:07

to manage the supply chain, be more efficient

5:09

and reduce that waste, you're probably making some

5:11

strides there in renewable energy, right? By

5:14

conserving resources.

5:15

Totally. Totally. You wouldn't believe it. So I'll give

5:17

you a little anecdote about like the waste

5:20

of resources. And of course it drives

5:22

up costs, but the waste are just like resources and energy,

5:25

um, in healthcare supply chains. We,

5:28

when we first got started, we were basically just looking

5:30

at, um, import records,

5:33

the U S customs and border protection agency

5:35

publishes everything that comes through our ports, which

5:37

is pretty cool. And, you know,

5:39

cross referencing the import records with the

5:41

FDA medical device registrar

5:43

to find, you know, FDA licensed

5:46

importers of supplies. And

5:48

that's what we were really doing, you know, during

5:50

the pandemic, that's how we got our footing. Um,

5:53

sort of finding those suppliers and connecting

5:55

them with those in need. We

5:58

sorta in doing that, we were purchasing

6:00

products from those importers and

6:02

bringing them into our own warehouse and reselling

6:04

them. And our biggest customers were actually

6:07

resellers who would buy them from us, uh,

6:10

buy those medical devices from us and resell

6:12

them to people like McKesson. We did,

6:14

you know, hundreds of thousands of, of

6:16

different. Um, 100, 000

6:19

of revenue, ultimately that wound

6:21

up in McKesson's warehouse, and it got not

6:23

only sort of marked up and passed

6:26

along to four to five resellers before

6:28

it actually reached McKesson and then the end user,

6:30

but it also got shipped redundantly

6:32

from New York to California, from California

6:35

to Denver, from Denver to Massachusetts, from

6:37

Massachusetts. Back to McKesson where it's split

6:39

up 50 ways and going all over.

6:42

And I mean, to me, that's like you said, an

6:44

unbelievable waste of resource, an unbelievable waste

6:46

of manpower and thought. Think about the people

6:49

involved in those processes just to move

6:51

it back and forth and back and forth. And,

6:53

you know, wasted energy. And ultimately,

6:55

you know, one of the, one of the many, uh,

6:58

sort of variables that drives up the cost

7:00

of the medical supplies. It's just wasteful

7:03

sort of thinking.

7:06

Interesting. Um, just

7:08

the widespread impacts the supply chain can

7:10

have as we saw during the pandemic.

7:14

So with grapevine's platform, you

7:16

have to connect both the supply and the demand.

7:18

How are you handling your go to market strategy

7:20

and what's working so

7:21

far? Yeah. So I'll

7:25

tell you what we started with and where we're

7:28

going because I know we got a lot of entrepreneur sort

7:30

of listeners and then, and then I'll tell you what, where

7:32

we've ended up and what's going right. We

7:36

started with thinking if you can solve,

7:38

like basically there are problems. At

7:41

the top of the stream. And if you think about just

7:43

like a stream, right? Like in your mind,

7:45

pretty between mountains in a valley, right?

7:48

If you've got a big blockage in your stream

7:50

all the way at the start of your stream, it's going

7:52

to damn up. You're going to get, you know, no water

7:54

flowing down to the little village at the

7:56

end of that stream. Um, So

7:59

our initial sort of project was

8:01

to solve the inefficiencies upstream,

8:03

basically between importer and,

8:06

you know, end user, um, really

8:08

by trying to build, you know, AI based

8:11

software to automate the

8:13

processes for, uh, suppliers

8:15

and importers. Uh, the processes of

8:17

customer service of logistics coordination,

8:19

you know, warehousing, what can be done with,

8:22

with software and so on. And,

8:25

you know, suppliers were

8:27

sellers. They want to sell product. That's what

8:29

they're motivated to do. And the idea of

8:32

getting, you know, uh, a nitro

8:34

boost engine brought into their vehicle.

8:36

That's been the same vehicle for 20, 30

8:39

years. Wasn't that attractive

8:41

or appealing to those supplier type businesses.

8:44

Um, the only thing they basically wanted

8:46

to use Grapevine for was to

8:48

sell supplies and to get access

8:51

to new customers who wanted to buy their

8:53

supplies. And... You know,

8:55

in a lot of cases, those suppliers

8:57

just being who they were importers, the

8:59

first person to touch, you know, the products

9:01

having avoided all the inefficiencies that

9:03

would, you know, come after them in

9:06

the supply chain, um, they were

9:08

able to offer significantly lower prices on products.

9:10

So that's where we built out what would become,

9:12

you know, this sort of marketplace component as opposed

9:14

to an automation toolbox for

9:17

suppliers, but a marketplace in a way for

9:19

these suppliers to connect with an active

9:21

and hungry sort of customer base.

9:24

Um, and we really started building

9:26

more and more for buyers, and it's a, it's a lesson that,

9:28

you know, Jeff Bezos has said a

9:30

million times, but I guess it

9:32

just doesn't stick, even for an entrepreneur who's

9:34

read, you know, several books about

9:36

him and by him, you know, you've

9:38

got to focus on the customer, you got to focus

9:41

on the person who's going to put money into your

9:43

system and doesn't sort of flinch at the idea

9:45

of putting money towards whatever it is that you're

9:47

giving them. And healthcare buyers

9:50

and medical practices. It is. are buying

9:52

supplies and they definitely want

9:54

to spend less on those supplies. So we've

9:56

transitioned over the last few months into

9:58

focusing more and more on the medical practices.

10:01

Um, building, you know, not only

10:03

a place for medical practices to connect with,

10:06

you know, hundreds of vendors and purchase from the mall,

10:08

compare prices and optimize their supply chain,

10:10

but also a toolbox that automates

10:13

a lot of the job that an office manager

10:16

or, you know, an owner of a small medical

10:18

practice might have historically taken on. It might have

10:20

taken them 20, 30 hours a week. So,

10:23

um, yeah, so we've been focusing

10:25

more and more on building value at the

10:27

end of the supply chain to basically it. motivation

10:30

for the suppliers to engage with our platform.

10:33

Fortunately or unfortunately, we built the A.

10:35

I. Automation toolbox for suppliers

10:38

and now buyers were in the process of building

10:40

it for buyers. But it's

10:43

funny because, you know, I

10:45

think one day we'll be able to cure the supply

10:47

chain of its ailments. Um, once sort

10:49

of the whole supply chain sort of finds in

10:52

a grapevine. But until then, we're really focused

10:54

on and building for medical practices

10:56

and hospitals.

10:59

I imagine that's got to help the smaller practices.

11:01

They're so few and far between those smaller

11:04

independent doctors and smaller

11:07

organizations. A lot of them fall under a larger hospital

11:10

umbrella. So I imagine this helps them keep

11:12

their doors open, um, by keeping

11:14

the costs down. So

11:15

yeah, great. Absolutely. We work with,

11:17

uh, uh, dermatology practice

11:19

in upstate New York here. Not, not

11:21

too far. I was there a couple of weeks ago and 25 percent

11:24

of their expense. When it comes

11:26

to like their entire business's expense,

11:28

um, is actually on medical devices

11:30

and medical supplies, which is crazy. So

11:33

every dollar they charge, they're essentially,

11:36

you know, having to mark that up to cover their,

11:38

you know, overhead. Yeah.

11:43

Crazy.

11:44

What issues or trends do you see on

11:46

the horizon for 2024 and beyond

11:48

for healthcare supply chains? Given

11:51

that we're a couple of years out now of the pandemic.

11:54

Yeah, I think for the first time in probably,

11:57

I mean, I don't know, since probably

11:59

the term supply chain was coined, um,

12:02

healthcare leaders are actually

12:04

looking for change in, in

12:06

their, their medical supply chains. I

12:08

think that historically people, uh,

12:11

have had the mentality and I've actually been told this

12:13

by owners of businesses. That, you know,

12:17

if it ain't broke, don't fix it because

12:19

changing things carries risk and

12:21

risk in this industry is

12:23

life and death. So,

12:26

you know, people haven't felt a reason to

12:28

change, but when the lack of

12:30

change or the lack of evolution to,

12:33

you know, for a better system, um,

12:35

actually becomes a matter of life and

12:38

death as it did become during the pandemic,

12:40

that's when you see people sort of willing to change.

12:42

So. There's, you know, huge,

12:45

huge opportunities. Um,

12:48

I think when it comes to, you know, for business leaders

12:50

like myself, but also, um,

12:52

a lot of motivation for healthcare leaders, those

12:54

at hospitals or medical practices. To

12:56

seek out change in their supply chain processes.

12:59

And the numbers sort of show the same trends

13:01

in the last year, you know, adoption of software,

13:04

everything from ERPs, which,

13:06

you know, I think are a little bit outdated systems

13:08

to marketplaces, to trying new vendors,

13:11

all of these things are, you know, really evolving

13:13

at a faster and faster rate. Um, and

13:15

which is exciting for a business like mine, because

13:17

it means we've got an opportunity to, you

13:19

know, stake out a little, a little piece of this market.

13:22

And. You know, hopefully provide

13:24

really valuable, uh, and meaningful change

13:26

to, to medical practices. Yeah.

13:29

And I imagine the very sexy hot topic of

13:31

AI comes into play there too, for supply

13:34

chain and how that helps.

13:35

Totally. Yeah. It's a word people

13:38

love to throw around and it means a lot of different things. So

13:40

it's, it's interesting. Great.

13:44

On founder's

13:46

perspective on the show. Can you tell us

13:48

what keeps you up at night and what's your most

13:50

excited for in the future as an entrepreneur?

13:56

I, uh. I would say the thing

13:58

that keeps me up at night is, is that,

14:00

you know, I, I always believed, and

14:02

I've already said it, um, on the pod

14:04

so far, but I've always believed

14:06

that, you know, if you create

14:09

meaningful, positive change for people

14:11

that make their lives better, um,

14:14

you know, commercial success inevitably follows.

14:17

And while I still believe that's true, and I think

14:20

it may take a lot of time to, to have people

14:22

sort of appreciate that value and,

14:24

you know, adopt it. Um, the thing that

14:26

sort of keeps me up at night is

14:29

probably, um, you

14:31

know, the fear that it will take too long

14:33

to help people sort of see the value

14:35

that you've created. For us, it's

14:38

as, you know, stark as night and day

14:41

when we try to synthesize a value proposition

14:43

to, you know, medical practice sort

14:45

of leadership, um, to make it an

14:47

obvious choice. But yeah, I mean,

14:50

the way that we're now sort of pitching ourselves to these practices

14:52

is. We can lower

14:55

your prices on medical supplies by 90 percent

14:57

and we'll pull up their Henry Schein

14:59

account And it has the same product same

15:01

brand same manufacturer and then we

15:04

pull it up on grapevine same product Whatever

15:06

and it's got like another,

15:09

you know It's literally one tenth of the price

15:11

and it's got you know 10 extra locations that

15:13

can ship from to reduce sort of stock outs and

15:15

back orders and we've got all these other things

15:17

that we do You know, at grapevine

15:20

that add value, but to me, you know,

15:22

trying to quantify it for mathematics

15:24

sort of nerdy people, and a lot of them

15:26

are, uh, when it comes to leadership

15:28

in that in, you know, health care,

15:31

um, but quantify it with sort of numbers.

15:33

To me, it's like an obvious thing. If you could save 90 percent

15:35

with, like, pretty much the same process in place,

15:37

like, why wouldn't you switch yet? We

15:40

hear time and time again, sort of resistance

15:42

to that. So That's something that's a little

15:44

bit disheartening or scary to me is

15:46

like, I know that we can provide value,

15:48

but can we get to a point where it's,

15:51

you know, appreciated? It's adopted. It's,

15:53

you know, people aren't scared of it. Um,

15:56

and that's sort of, that's sort of what we're working on now

15:58

is, is figuring out a way to marry

16:01

it. their fears with, you

16:03

know, the opportunities and the better future they

16:05

can have on grapevine, not just sort of cost savings.

16:10

Dollars and cents usually speak pretty loud and clear,

16:13

so I wish you the best of luck there.

16:15

Definitely for businesses, you know? Yeah.

16:18

Yeah. Um, speaking

16:21

of business problems, we've heard that, uh,

16:23

funding is the number one business problem for many

16:25

companies in life sciences. How are you financing

16:28

your startup? And do you have any advice?

16:33

Yeah, we got pretty lucky

16:35

in, in a lot of ways, um, we

16:37

had a, a first sort of startup that was,

16:40

you know, like I said, we were a part of the

16:42

problem in healthcare supply chains. We were purchasing

16:44

supplies, warehousing it and then reselling

16:46

it. you know, causing

16:48

increased product prices and whatnot. Um,

16:51

and that was a company we started called PRS

16:53

medical. You, you mentioned

16:55

it in the introduction. We did 20 million

16:58

of sales revenue in, you know, two

17:00

years, actually, while I was at college and,

17:03

um, we started winding it down

17:05

towards the end of my senior year and we're

17:07

able to, you know, pocket a fair amount of change that

17:09

we used, uh, to bootstrap grapevine

17:12

and right about the time that we were. Um,

17:15

you know, I was actually graduating. We're looking to sort of

17:17

launch grapevine. We won

17:20

the president's innovation prize from the University

17:22

of Pennsylvania. So that was another quarter million

17:24

dollars of non equity funding, which is great.

17:27

There's all sorts of student programs that,

17:29

you know, we applied to to try to get this non

17:31

equity funding. And if you're in a lab

17:34

and you're a student or a grad student, I definitely

17:36

I definitely Definitely encourage

17:38

you to look up these products or projects and

17:40

competitions and whatnot. Cause you can like make

17:43

a lot of sort of money to start your own

17:45

business without giving away equity. Um,

17:47

by leaning into these things and then, you know, also

17:49

government grants to that, you know, that's a big

17:51

opportunity that we didn't, you know, see as much success

17:53

with, but it's, it's a cool thing when you're trying to save

17:56

lives or have meaningful, positive change in the world.

17:58

Um, you can get a lot of funding in that way, but

18:00

after we sort of work through the university

18:03

competition circuit and, and

18:05

raise some money that way, um, those

18:07

same networks actually introduced us to

18:10

funding partners, angel investors and

18:12

venture capital partners. Um, and

18:14

we, you know, ended up rolling it all up

18:16

to raise 1. 6 million as

18:19

far as, yeah, I mean, moving forward

18:21

and trying to raise money in the market that

18:24

is out there. Now, obviously,

18:26

it's challenging and I haven't tried. I've

18:29

reduced our spend and cut back

18:31

on our expenses to sort of give

18:33

us an extra runway because I don't want

18:35

to try to raise money in this market.

18:38

So I can't speak to what it's

18:40

like out there right now, but if you do have,

18:42

you know, if you do have some capital

18:45

and you're able to run your business now, I just recommend

18:47

sort of toning back your spend just

18:49

to wait out this, this cold period,

18:52

this ice age and going back to it when,

18:54

when things are a little more optimistic

18:56

and, you know, funding partners are more,

18:58

uh, aggressive. So that's our plan.

19:00

We got just over a year's worth of runway. And

19:02

we do have at this point, you know, angel

19:05

investors and venture capital partners who see

19:07

their investments as, you know, somewhat of

19:09

a sunk cost where I do think they

19:12

would be happy to sort of continue funding us. So

19:14

the best investors are the easiest ones to work with

19:16

the people who've already given you money. And

19:18

have something on the line to lose. So,

19:21

yeah, well, congratulations on your award

19:23

for you and your team and your, uh,

19:26

fundraising. Um, that sounds great.

19:28

I'm glad you've gotten to get off the ground and have

19:31

that, uh, PRS to get you

19:33

kind of bootstrap started. Um,

19:36

Yeah, that's great. Pretty good. It all sort

19:38

of worked out.

19:40

Yeah. So switching gears

19:42

back to you, Luca, if you could go back to

19:44

the start of your career, which maybe for you

19:46

hasn't been too long ago, and

19:48

give yourself one piece of advice, what would

19:51

it be knowing what you know now? Stick

19:56

to renewable energy?

20:00

Who knows, maybe. Especially in the world that

20:02

we're now living in with, you know, all sorts of

20:05

I don't know, trade issues going

20:07

on, and there are opportunities for re inflammation. No, I

20:10

wouldn't say that. Um, I

20:12

got a piece of advice probably a year ago. My

20:14

brother, I've got an older brother who's two years older than

20:16

me. He is nothing like me,

20:18

but also everything like me. We live very different

20:21

lifestyles. He's not an entrepreneur. He

20:24

basically does everything in his power to

20:26

spend as much time outside as

20:28

possible. And as little time sort of in the

20:30

office or building, you know, commercial

20:32

ventures as possible. So he gave

20:34

me some advice when we were gardening a

20:36

couple of months ago. That's really stuck with

20:38

me. It's the idea that the

20:41

best time to plant a tree was 30

20:43

years ago. And the second best time

20:45

to plant a tree was today. Um,

20:49

and to me, you know, the way I sort of analyze that

20:51

is just, sometimes

20:54

doubt might paralyze you. And

20:56

sometimes joy or happy

20:58

things will pleasantly distract you. And

21:00

you won't always sort of be productive or

21:03

do the right thing or be proud of what

21:05

you did yesterday. And there will definitely

21:07

be moments when you realize that you should have done

21:09

things differently. But the worst thing you

21:11

can do is relish in regret.

21:14

And instead, you know, try to turn that

21:16

regret into motivation.

21:18

And, you know, I think for the trees

21:20

you did not plant 30 years ago, you

21:23

should be inspired to plant more today, even if

21:25

the seeds you sow fail to grow,

21:27

or even if you'll never know what comes of

21:29

it. It's the greatest feeling to try to give

21:31

life to something beautiful, and that's

21:34

what we're aiming to do here at Grapevine. We're trying

21:36

to, trying to get it to grow, so.

21:39

That's probably the best answer I've gotten thus far.

21:41

Yeah.

21:42

And where did the name Grapevine come from,

21:44

if I can ask?

21:46

Yeah. Um, so

21:49

the name Grapevine sort of came

21:51

from which, hold

21:55

on, let's, maybe we'll have Grant edit this part out. Let

21:57

me think about which way I want to answer it. There's a few different,

21:59

uh, sort of stems of where

22:01

the name Grapevine came from. The

22:03

sort of primary or most obvious one that

22:06

our sales guys are saying constantly is Grapevine.

22:08

Like, heard it through the grapevine, you know,

22:10

the song. And I think

22:13

to some level, that's sort of true when we got

22:15

started in this space, there was, I mean, and

22:17

there still is a total lack of transparency

22:20

across the industry, people buying or purchasing

22:22

from McKesson think they're buying

22:24

and purchasing McKesson products. They don't know that

22:27

70 percent of the products they're purchasing

22:29

were actually bought from another supplier

22:32

in the United States warehouse. McKesson, all

22:34

these things sort of marked up. They don't know that

22:36

there's, uh, you know, a better person

22:38

to buy it from. They can cut out the middleman

22:40

and with him. His markups and inefficiencies.

22:43

Um, but there's a lot of he said, she

22:45

said sort of B. S. At the

22:47

pandemic when we were getting involved. A lot of people

22:49

promising things they didn't have or speaking

22:52

of sort of rumors and supply chain and we manage

22:54

a lot of data and try to dissect that data

22:56

to best understand supply chain. So I

22:59

mean to me getting to the truth of

23:01

the rumors that be in the non transparent.

23:04

Uh, you know, health care supply chain.

23:06

That's that's a huge part of what we do here

23:08

at grapevine. So if you hear it through the grapevine,

23:11

you know, it's legit. It's not something he said. She

23:13

said sort of bs. It's that backed by data

23:15

and government data at that. And

23:17

that's how we ensure sort of quality of

23:20

both products, but also, you know, quality

23:22

delivery of sort of vendors and partners

23:25

as you build out your supply chain network

23:27

on grapevine. So, you know, That's

23:29

that's probably the biggest thing. Um,

23:31

but also we like the idea of, you

23:34

know, grapevine being, you know, in

23:36

the way that they even look, it sort of looks like

23:38

a network diagram and,

23:40

you know, delivering sort of fruits of labor

23:43

to those who are involved. Uh,

23:45

those fruits being little grapes. I think grapes

23:47

are fruits or maybe I don't know what grapes

23:49

are. Fruits. We'll go with fruits. I

23:52

think they're fruits. Yeah.

23:55

Yeah. I like that double meaning. I think both

23:57

work.

23:58

Yeah.

24:00

And the song is a classic, so you can't go wrong there.

24:02

Yeah.

24:03

Free marketing all the time. I was in a Chipotle

24:05

like two weeks ago and they were playing it. And I free

24:07

marketing, baby.

24:10

Lovely. You'll have to get the rights to that song somehow.

24:15

Yeah. So our last question

24:17

is more of a fun one. We like to ask our guests.

24:19

You may have heard it before. If you're a listener,

24:21

if we ran into a book at a bookstore, like

24:24

Barnes and Noble, in what section would we

24:26

find you?

24:30

So you

24:32

probably the fact

24:35

of the matter is you probably find me in like the nonfiction

24:37

business area and

24:39

I read like a ridiculous amount of these

24:41

sort of startup books because I figure there's a

24:44

lot of knowledge and a lot of mistakes

24:46

that have been made by entrepreneurs before me and if I

24:48

can, you know, read those mistakes instead of

24:50

making them to learn those lessons, that'd

24:52

be pretty valuable and save me a lot of time. So

24:55

that's where I, that's where I've been the last couple of years.

24:58

But where my heart really lies, if my heart

25:00

was on its own in the bookstore doing its own

25:02

thing, it. Um, where my heart really

25:04

lies is, is in the sort of fantasy

25:07

sci fi sort of area of

25:09

the world. So anywhere from, you know, as

25:11

far as, I mean,

25:14

yeah, like, I really like like Brave New World

25:17

all the way to, um, The Golden

25:19

Compass or whatever books, I

25:21

think they're called Golden Compass. Um, but

25:23

yeah, so like weird fantasy stuff is really,

25:25

oh, I love Lord of the Rings. Love

25:28

Lord of the Rings books. You know, the movies were okay.

25:30

I watched the movies as a kid, but then I was... Inspired

25:32

to read the books because the movies were pretty good. And then I

25:34

read the books and they were amazing. So that's really

25:36

my, my, my dirty pleasure, but I've gotten

25:38

less of it, uh, than I'd like in the last,

25:41

you know, four or five years because I've been so focused on.

25:43

Well, summer's not over. Maybe you can get some fantasy

25:46

summer reading in.

25:47

Exactly.

25:49

Terrific. Well, thank you so much, Luca, for

25:51

joining us on From Lab to Launch today by

25:53

Qualio. Where can our listeners go

25:56

to follow along and connect with you and learn what

25:58

you and Grapevine are up to?

25:59

Totally. Yeah. Um. I would

26:01

say, you know, our website is probably the

26:04

place to start, www.

26:06

go greatvine.

26:08

com. And our

26:11

LinkedIn page is where we're posting sort of,

26:13

you know, every and any updates

26:15

that we've got, whether it's sort of new features

26:17

that we release every couple weeks, or,

26:20

you know, industry reports, we've got a big industry

26:22

report, uh, that we're releasing based

26:24

on all the data that we've been accumulating,

26:27

uh, tracking and organizing for the last couple

26:29

years, so. Check us out on LinkedIn

26:31

and check us out on our website.

26:34

Great.

26:34

I will be following along on your websites

26:37

to hear what comes through the grapevine. Thanks

26:40

so much, Luca.

26:42

Thanks, Meg.