0:00

Episode one, Healthy

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Financial Boundaries with family and friends.

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Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast,

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where you'll learn to save money,

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embrace simplicity rights, and

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live with your life. Here

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your host Jen and Jill. Welcome

0:26

to the Frugal Friends Podcast. My name is Jen,

0:28

my name is Jill, and today

0:31

we are touching on having financial

0:35

boundaries. Yes,

0:39

boundaries. It's such a beautiful word

0:41

when you understand them.

0:43

Yes, And we

0:46

we know we need financial boundaries

0:48

with family, but we don't

0:50

think of it so much with friends, and

0:52

so we're also going to be talking about that

0:55

too. Um So, I

0:58

hope everyone get something

1:00

out of this episode. Even if you don't have

1:02

family that is crossing those

1:04

boundaries, most

1:07

people do, so yeah,

1:10

yeah, I think a lot of people will get a lot of things

1:12

out of this episode. But

1:15

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So boundaries. Yeah,

1:52

let's let's talk about them. Let's

1:55

do it as a licensed

1:57

social worker, define

1:59

a bound for us. Yeah,

2:02

so really a boundary, and there's

2:04

all sorts of definitions, surely,

2:07

But to me, it's recognizing

2:10

what is my responsibility

2:13

and what is not, which

2:16

sounds so simple. But

2:18

and I'm not trying to say that, oh it

2:20

is that simple. It is a pretty

2:23

simple concept, but the reality

2:25

is that there is overlap. The reason why

2:27

boundaries are so tricky

2:29

and we get so tripped up with them is because

2:33

we do bear influence on one

2:35

another. So my actions

2:37

and attitudes and behaviors, while

2:40

they are my own and

2:42

my responsibility, they

2:44

do bear weight on other people, affect

2:47

other people, impact other

2:49

people, and so some

2:51

of that we do have to

2:54

to take ownership of that UM,

2:57

be willing to apologize or

2:59

be h or recognize.

3:02

Yep, I did that, and maybe I'm okay with that,

3:05

um, but not to cross

3:08

over boundaries, either step over

3:10

ourselves or step over another person to

3:12

take on what is not our

3:15

responsibility. So, while

3:17

it's a pretty simple concept, it can

3:20

be tough to delineate those

3:22

lines. And I would say it takes a

3:24

lifetime to recognize where the

3:26

boundary lines fall because

3:28

the reality is also boundary

3:31

lines are is not. They're not one static

3:33

thing. Our boundaries can shift

3:36

and change. Our boundaries

3:38

might look different in certain relationships

3:40

than others. I almost describe

3:43

it like if we were to take a

3:45

walk down the road and just look

3:47

at the different types of boundary lines

3:49

that exist. We might see shrubs

3:52

mark demarkeating boundary

3:55

lines. We might see fences or

3:57

gates or stone walls

4:00

or no wall at all, or just

4:02

a sidewalk meeting up with grass

4:04

like there's all sort It's similar

4:06

in our personal lives, our

4:09

relationships are find our finances,

4:11

there are different types of boundaries,

4:13

and so part of this process as

4:15

we talk about financial boundaries is recognizing

4:19

that they're different. It's not as if I just

4:21

make one statement of I don't

4:23

lend money to people and that's it. That's

4:26

very very rigid. It might

4:28

be that I don't lend money to so and

4:31

so, or I don't lend money without X, y

4:33

Z present, or that's just an example.

4:36

But as an overarching um

4:39

explanation of boundaries in general,

4:42

I would say recognizing responsibility

4:45

what's mine to pick up what's not mine,

4:47

and how do I make sure I do not pick

4:50

up what does not belong to me. Excellent,

4:53

thank you for that welcome.

4:56

Yeah, that was thorough and I think

4:58

a lot of people fall. I

5:01

mean, it's easy to make very rigid

5:03

boundaries. Um, but it's and it's

5:05

healthier than not having any boundaries for

5:07

sure. Um. But we want to be the best

5:10

version of ourselves, so we want to learn how to

5:13

have appropriate boundaries,

5:16

um, and boundaries that are fluid

5:18

where they need to be and rigid where they

5:20

need to be. So yeah,

5:23

this first article is from Holly Sharer

5:26

and it's when helping hurts how to set

5:28

financial boundaries. What did

5:31

you like on this one, Chill, I

5:33

like what this article has

5:36

to say about boundaries and resentment.

5:39

Uh. And so my perspective on this

5:42

is when we are determining where

5:44

our boundary lines fall, resentment

5:48

and bitterness are usually good

5:50

indicator signs that a boundary

5:52

has been, has been, or is being

5:55

crossed. Where we start

5:57

to perceive this inside of ourselves,

5:59

usually it's an indicator of oh

6:02

why am I experiencing this? It might be

6:04

because of a boundary that

6:07

has yet to be discovered. Uh,

6:09

is already there and I just need to perceive

6:11

it a bit better. And so some of

6:13

the reasons that resentment

6:16

or bitterness might come in. They

6:18

list out three reasons in this article.

6:20

It is expectations, manipulation,

6:24

lending um. These different

6:27

things that can lead to bitterness,

6:29

resentment, a boundary line being crossed,

6:33

and so they talk about expectations

6:35

maybe that you hope

6:38

that you had had or somebody else had

6:40

of you, UM and

6:42

and maybe being disappointed and that

6:45

leading to um

6:47

yeah, boundary lines being crossed,

6:50

or where there might be manipulation of

6:52

somebody trying to get you to do

6:55

something that maybe you're not comfortable

6:57

with, by using different types

6:59

of guilt tactics or

7:02

relational um

7:04

tactics to get you to do something

7:07

to sidestep what it is that you might

7:09

feel comfortable with. And another common

7:12

thing that can lead us to resentment

7:15

would be lending money

7:17

where we're not comfortable doing that or maybe

7:20

we don't have the money to lend um.

7:23

Yeah. So these kind of three different categories

7:26

that they list out. Certainly, I think there's there's

7:28

more than this. This is not a comprehensive

7:30

list, but I think important to look

7:33

at these areas um

7:35

how they play a role in our lives

7:37

and whether we're perceiving boundary lines

7:39

for ourselves in these areas. Yeah,

7:43

I specifically like I want to

7:45

touch more onto I don't like, I want to touch

7:47

more on the manipulation part UM

7:49

because I feel like this is a big thing

7:52

in families, especially immediate family

7:55

members, is that people

7:57

will use UM guilt,

8:00

shame, threats, triangulation,

8:04

UM, blame, bribery,

8:06

even lies UM two

8:10

make you feel responsible

8:12

for something financially, So

8:15

whether that's supporting a family member

8:18

or not just lending

8:21

money. But there are a lot of ways

8:23

UM that you

8:25

can be manipulated out

8:28

of your money, and the

8:30

family is trying to make you

8:32

think that it's

8:35

your responsibility UM

8:38

for for toxic reasons UM

8:41

in toxic ways. So and

8:44

this is something that definitely will

8:48

take some UM

8:50

outside help, Like you're not going to figure this

8:52

out by listening to a podcast UM.

8:55

And so I'm actually very

8:57

excited about our sponsor are ural

9:00

sponsor today UM to

9:03

help out with us, But we'll talk about that later. So,

9:06

Yeah, it's it's definitely something that

9:08

you need to go through and

9:10

work out to figure out. Oh

9:13

my gosh, that I mean she is trying

9:15

to guilt me. She is trying to shame me. He

9:18

is um bribing me um

9:21

or or blaming me into

9:24

making me think that this financial

9:27

thing is my responsibility. Well

9:29

said, and I will want to highlight

9:32

the fact that usually, particularly

9:34

in family dynamics, there are deep

9:37

rooted patterns that will not just

9:39

disappear overnight. Because we've

9:41

heard of this term called boundaries. It

9:44

will take lots of work

9:47

and uh, personal

9:50

clarity and confidence in

9:52

the boundaries that you're perceiving to

9:55

be able to move forward. Well, any

9:57

time we set a new boundary

10:00

where it has not been before, people

10:02

will push against it. People

10:05

will not just immediately

10:07

respect boundary lines, uh,

10:10

and it will often disrupt,

10:12

especially where there are established

10:14

patterns um of relating

10:16

previously. It's it's not

10:18

going to be an easy thing to implement or even

10:21

an easy thing to identify as

10:23

you know the person trying to set these boundaries.

10:26

So I will echo what you're saying. Gen

10:28

of needing assistance in

10:30

this process, preferably

10:33

by a trained professional who can

10:35

help be another

10:37

perspective and an unbiased

10:39

perspective to be able to point some of these things

10:42

out. Give you a script

10:44

to be able to do this and help

10:46

you with the confidence that you need to be able

10:48

to stick to that thing until

10:50

it becomes the new established

10:53

pattern where we train

10:55

people how to treat us and

10:58

and there will be a train process in

11:01

this UM depending on to

11:03

how unhealthy the established

11:06

pattern is. I mean, if we're talking about guilt,

11:08

shame, threats, triangulation, lies,

11:11

blame, bribery, holy smokes,

11:13

that's that's not just a one

11:15

man job. If you are caught

11:18

up into that vortex of things, and

11:20

when it comes to money, yeah, it

11:22

can get very very messy,

11:24

and therapy counseling

11:27

wise, counsel can

11:29

be very very useful if this

11:31

is the type of situation you find yourself in.

11:34

Yeah, and I think it's not just

11:37

so sometimes we associate

11:39

these with like negative emotions

11:42

and experiences, but you

11:45

can have poor financial boundaries

11:47

with your family even if you associate

11:50

it with UM positively,

11:52

like with success and like your you

11:55

know you've been successful, you have money

11:57

and you're taking care of people, or even if

11:59

you don't have money, you just are

12:02

such a people pleaser and

12:05

a UM you enjoy

12:07

helping people, and so this

12:10

like brings you joy.

12:12

Just because it brings you joy doesn't mean

12:14

it's healthy. Um

12:17

So, boundaries

12:19

are even more important for you because

12:22

you don't want to one day like build

12:25

bitterness and resentment after

12:27

nobody appreciates you for so many years and all

12:29

you're doing this. I'm not saying that will happen, but

12:32

even if you feel any time

12:34

that this is finding like a financial

12:36

matter, that something with your money

12:39

involves your finances, then

12:41

you have to take a look at it and

12:43

hopefully get a third party to look

12:46

at what's going on.

12:48

Um So, whether that is a

12:51

counselor that's maybe helping you through some like

12:54

family stuff. I mean,

12:57

this happens a lot after you know, maybe

12:59

somebody us is away and somebody has

13:01

to take on a mortgage or some

13:03

other kind of loan or something.

13:06

Then maybe your people are expecting

13:08

you to be the one to take grandma's house because

13:11

of where you're at, but like financially, that's not where

13:13

you are or something like that. So it can

13:15

be so many different things, and

13:17

it's definitely healthy to get a

13:19

third party and neutral party

13:22

to look at it, whether it's counseling

13:24

or whether it's you know, an attorney

13:27

or whatever whatever works in the

13:29

situation. Yeah, it's such a good point.

13:31

It's not just about means,

13:33

whether or not I have the means. Certainly

13:36

it's advisable to not be

13:39

helping or financially

13:41

to extreme amounts if you don't

13:44

have the money to do that. So,

13:46

yes, that's true. And it is also

13:48

true as even the title of this article is

13:50

communicating just helping,

13:54

even if you have the means to

13:56

do so, has the potential of

13:58

actually hurting, are causing

14:00

harm, That there is a

14:03

space that we can step into

14:06

that is taking away from another

14:08

person's autonomy

14:10

or ability to learn

14:14

do for themselves, right that like teach

14:16

a man of fish or like just give them

14:18

a fish kind of concept. And

14:21

and this is gonna sound a little bit hokey,

14:24

but I do think it's an excellent illustration

14:26

that, similar to

14:30

this concept of of potentially

14:33

hurting, where we actually think we might be helping

14:36

if we were to think about I I use this

14:38

illustration sometimes even in counseling,

14:40

because boundaries is where a lot of the

14:42

counseling does go. It is a complicated

14:45

topic. It can be is to think

14:47

about a butterfly. Granted, butterflies

14:49

are not actually my favorite. I

14:51

get it that they're pretty, but at the end of the day, there's

14:53

still an insect. But here you go. Butterflies,

14:56

we all know, start from caterpillars when

14:58

they are in their cook un and coming out of

15:01

their cocoon preparing to be that

15:03

beautiful butterfly insect. It's

15:06

quite a struggle for them to come

15:09

out of their cocoon. And to

15:11

the untrained, naive, maybe

15:13

even potentially ignorant person

15:16

could think, let me just go

15:18

help like tear open that cocoon, let this

15:20

butterfly like fly free,

15:23

uh, sooner than what they

15:26

they could have, or let's save

15:28

them from the struggle. And in reality,

15:31

if we were to do that, we would weaken

15:33

the butterfly's muscles, they would not

15:35

be able to actually fly away. It kills

15:37

the butterfly to open up their cocoon uh

15:40

and not allow them to do it themselves.

15:43

I think that this concept does relate

15:45

sometimes into this

15:48

boundaries conversation, particularly

15:50

financial boundaries, that sometimes

15:53

saving someone from a struggle

15:56

is not actually helping them.

15:58

It can actually hurt or

16:01

stunt their growth, their

16:03

ability to move forward,

16:05

build their own skill sets, um

16:08

become more independent

16:11

in in this process. So even

16:13

if we have the ability to come

16:15

break open that cocoon. There

16:17

are times when we shouldn't. This,

16:20

of course, is different for every person.

16:22

It does require our own introspection,

16:25

are our own look at patterns,

16:28

and so that's a big if I could, you

16:30

know, pull out a tip in

16:33

this little conversation

16:35

right now, it would be to look at patterns

16:38

of is this friend

16:40

or a family member constantly

16:43

coming to you for money? Are they constantly

16:46

forgetting their wallet? Do they constantly

16:48

need reminders to reimburse

16:51

you for X, Y Z? Okay,

16:53

that's a good indicator sign that there

16:56

needs to be a boundary established.

16:58

We're not talking about your an off

17:01

friends situation where they really

17:03

hit a rough patch and they're asking for

17:05

some help. We're talking about

17:08

really needing to establish some boundaries

17:11

where we are seeing patterns of unhealth

17:14

which we can identify in ourselves

17:16

by looking for those indicator signs

17:19

of bitterness and resentment and

17:21

starting to identify. Okay, so what do I need

17:23

to do here? Or there could be our

17:25

own pattern, Maybe it's not necessarily

17:27

with a sick specific person, but

17:30

our own pattern of why do I

17:32

keep picking up the bill every time I go

17:34

out to a restaurant with anybody?

17:37

That might be a personal issue, then

17:39

it is an issue of other individuals.

17:42

And if you're walking away with resentment of why

17:44

am I always the one? Why am

17:46

I the one who X y Z? Why

17:49

does everything always fall on me? If you find

17:51

yourself asking that question a lot or

17:53

versions of that question, it's

17:55

an indicator sign that probably

17:57

boundaries need to come into place. Maybe

18:00

you're having difficulties saying no, Maybe you

18:02

are feeling your own internal sense

18:04

of guilt and shame that is not being

18:06

put on you by other people. A

18:09

lot of different layers here, um,

18:12

but ultimately, uh, to go

18:14

back to my first point here of

18:16

being careful to not save people

18:18

from a struggle clouding it in

18:20

this I'm helping, you

18:22

might not be. You might be

18:25

hindering. You might be um

18:28

creating a dependence that's not necessary.

18:31

Yeah, but it's so hard to identify

18:34

whether that is a hinderance or an

18:36

actual help. And it's messy and it

18:38

is going to take some I mean it might

18:40

take sometimes of messing that up, um

18:43

to understand it, to learn

18:45

it. It's not cut and dry. It's

18:47

messy. Oh my word, there are landmines

18:50

all over this thing. And

18:53

that is okay,

18:55

It's okay, if we walk away from

18:57

a situation being like, oh

18:59

that was about ju line, that was just cross and

19:01

I didn't really realize that at the time, but now

19:03

I do. It's what we do with those

19:05

things and how we choose to move

19:08

forward. Um. And

19:10

and still being kind

19:12

and generous along the way, but

19:15

beginning to be a bit more

19:17

discerning with was that

19:19

kind and generous or was that maybe

19:21

even hurtful but shrouded

19:24

in this generosity

19:26

that's not actually a generosity.

19:29

So really, yeah, just starting to

19:31

ask these questions to ourselves is

19:33

a great place to begin. And there's no

19:36

shame in messing up in the process.

19:39

Yes, absolutely. Um

19:43

So then the article goes on to kind

19:45

of explain how to

19:47

prevent resentment. Um.

19:50

One of the tips she gives is

19:52

to give without expectation of

19:55

getting anything in return.

19:58

Um, So give freely joyfully,

20:01

not because you feel guilty

20:03

or manipulated. Again, even

20:05

if you are giving freely and joyfully,

20:08

observe if there is a pattern

20:11

to that, because you may

20:13

be hindering without

20:15

realizing it. Um. You

20:17

know, at you at your

20:20

family's expense. Yeah, and

20:22

I think this is a great tip to consider

20:24

every time you are you might

20:26

pay for something for another person, or

20:29

lend money. I would say

20:31

to do it with no expectation

20:34

of getting it back. If you

20:36

can do it with that in mind

20:38

and you feel comfortable with that, then

20:40

great, move forward. If you are like

20:43

no, if I never see this money again,

20:45

that will ruin relationship. Okay,

20:47

don't do it. That's a good indicator

20:49

sign that this probably is

20:52

not the best choice for

20:54

you in the situation. And it is okay

20:56

to say no just because somebody

20:58

asks for something. If you can't

21:01

do it, whether because financial means

21:03

or your own personal boundary

21:06

lines being able to move forward in integrity

21:08

and right relationship, then don't do

21:10

it. Mm hmm, I love

21:13

this one. She says. Also, consider

21:16

what they're going to do with the money aligns with your

21:18

values. So if you're a disciplined

21:21

spender, would it challenge you to give

21:23

to somebody who spends frivolously

21:25

or irresponsibly um

21:27

or if this person does

21:30

things that you don't agree

21:32

with um you know, whether it's

21:35

socially, personally, career,

21:37

whatever. If it doesn't align with

21:39

you our values in the way you would spend your money,

21:42

then you don't have to

21:45

to give money that person.

21:47

If someone's in a bind on paying

21:50

their rent because they just

21:52

went on a frivolous vacation

21:54

and not maybe not for a

21:56

luxurious vacation, uh,

21:59

and now they can't pay rent. That

22:01

might be a good opportunity to let that

22:03

little butterfly struggle and

22:05

learn from the struggle. All

22:08

of our choices have consequences

22:11

to them, and just rescuing

22:13

somebody from uh maybe

22:16

their own situation that they found

22:18

themselves in. It's possible

22:20

that we are not honoring or dignifying

22:23

a person by rescuing from

22:25

them from a situation that could provide

22:28

an excellent learning experience,

22:31

even if it is really difficult. Some

22:36

ways to consider helping friends

22:39

or family members without hurting them,

22:41

As this article continues to go on to say,

22:43

is look at alternative ways

22:45

to assist somebody who might be

22:48

having difficulty financially. If

22:50

we are recognizing, you know what, this

22:52

may not be the best time to be giving

22:55

them money or paying for something. Is

22:57

there another way that I can still stay invested

23:00

in this relationship. One of

23:02

those ways could be to help them create

23:04

a budget. If you are in

23:06

a situation where you understand

23:09

finances maybe a little bit better

23:11

than the person that you're trying to help and volunteer

23:15

to sit down with them, look at what

23:17

they make, what their expenses are, help

23:19

them to identify ways that they can

23:22

afford life in

23:24

the future. And my goodness, is

23:26

that a teaching a person

23:28

to fish over giving them

23:30

a fish.

23:32

Yeah, and so this

23:34

may not be feasible for

23:36

every family member. I know I think

23:38

about this one and I can't tell you how many times

23:40

I offered to help my mom with

23:42

her budget, but she didn't want me to know what she was

23:45

making or any of that. So that

23:47

may not always be an option. But

23:50

bringing over a home cooked meal, I

23:52

mean every once in a while that

23:54

can be a help. Or dropping

23:57

off some groceries. People

23:59

all so don't want to feel like

24:02

they are a charity case. So

24:06

figuring out how to help without

24:09

giving money directly or

24:11

without compromising your own finances

24:14

directly um and not

24:16

making them feel like charity so

24:19

so difficult, so messy, but can

24:22

be done. You just have to think

24:24

about the person what

24:27

they need, um

24:29

and kind of tailor it for that. But I

24:32

know home cooked meals are definitely good.

24:35

Um. You know, offering

24:37

up your cousin a bag

24:39

of the clothes that you're getting rid of just

24:41

being like, hey, I didn't want to bring

24:43

this to the thrift store before offering

24:45

it to someone, would you want to look through it? Um?

24:48

And they can say yeah, your name, you know, stuff like that.

24:51

Yeah. And ultimately, if you don't

24:53

feel good about a situation, you don't

24:55

have to do it. You

24:57

are not obligated to

25:00

um. Yeah, say yes

25:03

to everything. As we've mentioned before, you

25:05

can allow peace to

25:07

guide you in this process.

25:10

What does it feel unsettling?

25:12

And maybe you can't quite put your finger on why

25:15

this doesn't feel right, that's okay.

25:17

You can press the pause button for

25:20

now, identify what

25:22

it is that you're experiencing inside yourself,

25:24

and then decide how you want to move forward.

25:27

Again, going back to the this what's

25:30

my responsibility? What's not my responsibility?

25:32

Again? Pretty simple, but it can help us

25:35

to have these things listed out,

25:37

And I would encourage anybody

25:40

to to do this process

25:43

literally on a piece of paper. Have two columns

25:45

that you know, one is my responsibility,

25:47

what's mine, what's not mine?

25:50

And and it can be as simple

25:52

or as complicated as you want it to be. But

25:55

the simplest forms are my choices,

25:58

my actions, my behaviors,

26:01

my bills, my you know, keep

26:04

naming it. Okay, what's not mine? Usually

26:06

it's the exact opposite of what

26:08

is yours. Other people's bills,

26:10

other people's choices, other people's

26:13

actions. This can be a really

26:15

helpful visual when we

26:17

come upon these tricky situations

26:20

to come back to this list and say, Okay,

26:23

where does this fall? Whose

26:26

is this? And if

26:28

you determine it is not your

26:30

responsibility, then yes,

26:33

you can just ultimately say no, or

26:35

you can decide how do I want to move

26:37

forward with something that's not mine that

26:40

doesn't step over somebody else's

26:42

boundary lines? Is there a way I want to

26:44

come alongside and assist that

26:47

also doesn't cross my boundaries that I

26:49

can feel comfortable with, um,

26:51

some sort of middle ground, radical

26:54

middle territory where I am

26:56

owning me and this person

26:59

is owning them selves and

27:01

yet we are um

27:03

interconnected in that process.

27:05

Again, aspects of

27:07

this are going to need some counseling

27:10

assistance, UM, somebody

27:12

who might be outside of a very

27:14

complicated situation to help you see

27:17

and think clearly. But

27:19

at least that visual can be

27:21

a helpful tool to navigate some of

27:23

these tricky things. Absolutely

27:26

awesome. So

27:29

we're going to transition a little bit. A lot of

27:31

that can be taken into

27:34

our next phase. But we want to talk about

27:36

boundaries. Financial boundaries with friends

27:39

because they're they're different because

27:42

it's not so often that your friends will be

27:44

asking you questions as

27:46

intimate as your family would.

27:49

But there are still

27:51

boundary financial boundaries

27:53

that we need to set with friends

27:56

that we don't always think about. So our

27:58

next article is from Work Wealth

28:01

Um, and it's

28:03

called how to Set Better

28:05

Money Boundaries, and it's by

28:08

Mary Beth storgea hand. She's a certified

28:10

financial planner and the author of

28:13

Work Your Wealth so Um.

28:16

She's a brilliant personal

28:19

in the world of personal finance, and so I

28:21

love how she

28:24

she kind of defines these

28:27

financial frenemies. Love

28:29

it. Yes, it's so real

28:31

and you don't think about it until you hear it. It's

28:35

great to name it. And I think a list

28:37

like this can help us to see, Okay,

28:40

this is what we're talking about. This

28:42

is why I feel uncomfortable in these

28:44

types of situations. Uh.

28:46

Naming it is the first step

28:49

always uh and can

28:51

help us in this process. So yeah, i'd I'd

28:53

love to just go through this list of financial

28:56

frenemies to help us get a better handle on

28:58

what are we talking about? Where are the places we

29:00

might need some greater boundaries? Yes,

29:03

okay, um, I'll name the first three

29:05

and then I'll let you go through the next

29:07

one's but okay, So the first one is the entitled

29:10

friend of me. Um. It's the person

29:12

that says, can you pick up the tap just

29:14

this one time? The

29:17

second is the budget buster

29:20

and and she or he would say you should

29:22

buy it, treat yourself. That's

29:24

the funnest one. That's yeah, that's

29:27

all mine. Um. I have been that friend.

29:29

I have been the budget bester friend. And we've all

29:31

been We've all been somebody

29:34

on this list, if not multiple people

29:36

on this list. Um. The third is

29:39

the one upper Um,

29:41

so, oh, you've got a hundred dollar gift card as a holiday

29:43

gift from work. Nice. I got a ten tho dollar

29:46

raised during my annual review totally

29:48

unrelated.

29:50

That's yeah,

29:52

I don't even know if that's a friend of me. It's

29:56

good to hear these things and you can identify,

29:58

like, oh no, that's me. You

30:00

can stop that. Yes. Yes.

30:04

The fourth on the list is the priors.

30:07

They would say something like how much do you

30:10

make? How much did that cost you?

30:13

I've done that, like the cost, how much

30:15

did that cost? The next

30:17

is the green eyed monster. They

30:20

would sound like this must

30:22

be nice that you can afford such a

30:25

big house. And

30:27

the sixth is the fomo front

30:29

of me. You can spend your money

30:32

just this once, usually

30:34

on an experience or

30:38

like something you don't want

30:40

to miss out on what they're doing. So

30:43

we all have these friends, and we have

30:45

all been these friends,

30:48

and they are people trying

30:50

to You've set a boundary, You've set

30:53

a financial boundary, and

30:55

this person is trying to break

30:58

that. So you've saved and you budgeted

31:00

for your house. This friend of me is going

31:02

to try and make you feel guilty for spending

31:04

that. Like you've said some things

31:06

out of your budget, and your friend

31:08

is going to try and be like, oh, just this wants

31:11

do it or you deserve it. So

31:14

being aware of what

31:17

friends say, and they a lot of

31:19

times are doing it like nicely,

31:22

like you deserve it, like do this by

31:25

by it. It's on sale, it's such a great

31:27

deal. I told you about it, and

31:29

they're doing it in kindness, but it

31:33

is a boundary breaker,

31:35

and none of this means, oh, don't

31:37

hang out with that person. And because

31:40

it is our responsibility

31:43

to maintain our boundaries,

31:46

it is not somebody else's responsibility,

31:49

we often want to put that over onto

31:51

other people. Again, that's a boundary

31:53

issue. To expect other people

31:56

to hold and maintain your boundaries is giving

31:58

over responsibility that ultimately but longs

32:00

to you and so being

32:02

able to know how can I respond

32:05

in the situation. And again coming

32:07

back to the statement of we train people

32:09

how to treat us. Of course this

32:12

is barring abusive situations

32:14

and relationships, but in

32:17

our common everyday relationships

32:19

are non abusive relationships. We

32:22

train people how to treat

32:24

us. And so somebody can say

32:27

these things all they want, that is fine.

32:29

It is up to us to identify whether

32:31

or not it's okay. That's

32:34

another way burn A Brown describes relations

32:36

or boundaries is what's okay and

32:38

what's not okay? Again, a very

32:41

simple definition for something quite

32:43

um complicated. Can be quite

32:46

complicated. But it's not a problem that

32:48

somebody else asks, can you pick

32:50

up the tab just this one time? It

32:53

is a problem if that is a boundary

32:55

line that you're not comfortable with, and then

32:57

you do it you are crossing

32:59

over your own boundary in that

33:01

situation. It is okay

33:04

if you are not okay with that to say,

33:06

actually, no, I

33:09

am comfortable paying for my food.

33:11

If you can pay for your food as well,

33:14

that's great that that is a workable

33:16

way to cover our dinner expenses

33:19

tonight, of course in your own

33:21

words. But yes, that feels uncomfortable.

33:23

But my goodness, this person just asked you to pay for your for

33:26

their food. So yeah, yeah,

33:28

you have ownership in this situation with what

33:31

your decision is. So in any

33:33

of these six examples that were

33:35

just given by this article, there is

33:37

a way to respond that that

33:40

can maintain relationship if we continue to

33:42

want relationship with that person and sets

33:44

our boundaries and trains people how to treat

33:46

us. Yeah, if that person is

33:48

being bold and asking you to pay for their

33:50

dinner, it gives you permission to be bold

33:52

back and say actually,

33:55

I didn't budget for this. You can always

33:58

blame the budget,

34:01

right, nobody's going to argue with that. Um,

34:03

sorry, it's I didn't budget for

34:05

this much. I only budgeted for this much. Um.

34:08

We don't even have to be sorry, right,

34:11

you don't have to say no,

34:16

I always say sorry, even if I'm not sorry,

34:19

you know that's just me. Yeah,

34:22

Or even if they asked to split the check and there's

34:25

was more than you be like, oh

34:27

no, I really prefer separate checks. You

34:30

don't have to say why. They know why.

34:34

You know why. They got the three drinks

34:36

and you've got the water, so they

34:38

know why. Yes, So

34:41

I want to go into some strategies

34:43

for supporting friends or family. They give

34:45

some great ideas on here, Um,

34:49

how we can response. We don't want

34:51

to just leave you with identifying boundary

34:53

lines, although that is great, but what

34:55

do we do? So? Again, this is

34:57

a reiteration of something we've already talked about,

35:00

but I think good to say

35:03

again. The first tip that they give

35:05

is to look at the money as a gift, not

35:08

alone. So if you do end

35:10

up paying for somebody's bill or

35:13

giving money, to be able to

35:15

give it freely, not anticipating

35:17

anything in return, not anticipating

35:20

that they are going to pay you back. Um,

35:22

just can I give this freely as

35:24

a gift? And if the answer is yes, then great,

35:27

go ahead and do it because you feel

35:29

free in doing so. Yeah,

35:32

or even if somebody wants you to do

35:35

an activity with them that

35:38

you would not have. UM.

35:40

But the activity is like very important

35:42

to them. View you're

35:44

spending money on that as a as a gift,

35:47

Like, don't hold it against them. But also

35:49

make expectations clear for the

35:51

future. So

35:53

it's okay if this you know to do

35:56

it once, even if in hindsight

35:58

you look back and that was a mistake, Like, how

36:00

are you going to know unless she did it. Um,

36:02

you're going with your gut and and you're

36:05

doing it. But make expectations

36:07

clear for the future if you know in the future

36:10

you will not do that activity or

36:12

spend that money again. Yes, making

36:14

expectations clear verbalizing it.

36:17

Don't let them think that you will do it again

36:19

or this is a recurring thing. To be unclear

36:22

is to be unkind. So

36:25

even if it's difficult, UH,

36:28

do the difficult thing and be clear

36:32

now. Also, UM,

36:35

like our sponsor from this week, when

36:37

in doubts, say no, yeah

36:40

and then see how you feel. I

36:43

will say one more thing about this article, UM

36:45

that really like hit

36:48

home. UM.

36:51

It's the section on set better

36:53

money boundaries with yourself.

36:57

UM. Because she says setting money boundaries

36:59

with other can be challenging, but setting

37:01

boundaries with yourself can

37:04

be even more difficult because

37:06

sometimes for me, I am that friend

37:09

of me. I am the person saying I deserve

37:11

this, um or I

37:13

am the person feeling guilty about how

37:16

much I spent for something I budgeted

37:18

for, um or

37:20

you know, saying, oh, I can

37:22

do it just this once and then next

37:24

month I'll be much better. It's it's

37:28

I am my problem most of the time.

37:30

I am my own friend of me. Yeah.

37:34

Yeah, So learn to

37:37

train yourself how to treat yourself first,

37:40

and then begin implementing

37:42

these things with others. Yeah,

37:45

great tip. Yeah,

37:48

you know what else is a great tip? Gosh,

37:50

it's the best tip of the

37:52

week. It's the

37:56

week, that's

38:08

right. It's time for the best minute

38:10

of your entire week. Maybe

38:12

a baby was born and his name is William.

38:15

Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe

38:17

your car died and you're happy to not have

38:20

to pay that bill anymore. Ducks built

38:22

buffalo bills. Bill Clinton, this

38:25

is the bill of the week, he

38:28

Adron haytil. This is

38:30

Ali. I wanted to tell you my

38:32

favorite bill of the week, which

38:35

it's part of mine of my roommates new favorite

38:38

foogal activity, which is going to the

38:40

park is the little

38:42

duck bills on all the

38:44

tiny little duck babies

38:47

that we see every time we go. They're

38:49

adorable and they're free to look

38:51

at and they're so cute. Anyway,

38:55

thanks to guys, that's my bill of

38:57

the week, as it

38:59

should be. Yes,

39:01

Alie, I've been waiting for

39:04

somebody to give me that duck bill

39:06

and up with it in such a

39:09

beautiful, creative ducks

39:12

little baby duck bills on your

39:15

frugal walk with a friend

39:17

at the park. And if

39:21

so, you're like cutting down on your rent and

39:23

you guys are still friends coming

39:27

up with bills of the week. Yes,

39:30

duck bills, baby duck bills, baby

39:32

duck bills, baby buffalo

39:35

bills, baby baby

39:37

bills, just baby

39:41

more baby at

39:43

one point, that's funny.

39:47

Thank you for affirming me. Oh,

39:49

if you want to submit your bill of the

39:51

week, if it is any kind of

39:53

baby bill, all the better.

39:55

But you know, anything related to bill

39:58

or bills will do. Go to

40:00

Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash

40:02

bill. Leave us your bill.

40:05

We will be entertained, overjoyed

40:09

and take it too far, talk

40:12

about it and laugh about it for far too long. Thank

40:16

you for humoring us. And

40:19

now it's time for D.

40:26

So today we're

40:29

talking about our financial

40:31

boundary stories. And it's not all

40:34

of them. We'll just share

40:37

just your one big one that stands

40:39

out, UM for

40:42

me. I could I

40:44

could go on and on about my

40:48

family emotional financial

40:51

boundaries that I experienced,

40:53

but UM, I think one that

40:55

might be more relevant and more

40:57

helpful is UM

41:00

when I was a bridesmaid. Um.

41:04

One time I was a

41:06

bridesmaid and I

41:09

was asked to chip in for the bridle shower

41:11

cost. So I

41:14

I totally understand bachelorette party, like

41:16

you you pay for the bride

41:18

and you know you expect that

41:20

to be a little bit more, But

41:23

for the bridle shower, I

41:26

wasn't expecting that. I was like this, this is gonna

41:28

be cheap. We're gonna be paying for some food

41:30

and that's it. And so

41:34

I hear from the maid of honor

41:36

that my responsibility

41:39

for um the bridle

41:41

shower is I

41:43

think it was like over a hundred dollars

41:46

um and and she had like six bridesmaids.

41:49

I remember it being just very

41:51

outrageous. But I only

41:53

paid a hundred of it.

41:56

And here's why. So I

41:58

had I'd set a financial

42:01

boundary, but I hadn't been vocal

42:04

about it. I

42:07

was paying off debt at the time. Um,

42:10

we'd only been paying off debt for a few months. So

42:12

we were very passionate

42:14

about it. We did not make that

42:16

a secret. UM.

42:19

We definitely talked about how we were on a budget.

42:21

We were, um, you know, doing

42:23

things. I made my wedding super

42:25

inexpensive, like as

42:28

cheap as possible to not put

42:30

a financial burden on my bridesmaids.

42:33

But I only had three, um,

42:35

and so without being consulted, I

42:38

just get this quote unquote bill from

42:41

you know, one of my best friends, and

42:45

I was super hurt. So

42:48

there were two two

42:50

boundaries. Both of us were in the wrong.

42:52

So I didn't make my

42:54

budget known. And honestly, I didn't have a

42:56

budget. I just assumed that

42:58

the bridle shower would be not

43:01

expensive. Um,

43:03

and so hers was.

43:06

She didn't consult anybody

43:08

on what she was doing. She did whatever she wanted

43:10

and then just gave the bill for it. She had she

43:13

rented out a venue, had professional

43:16

catering, um, well,

43:18

you know, along with all of the normal things

43:21

that you do, and just expected

43:23

us all to pay for it. I found out years later.

43:26

Actually I wasn't the only one upset about it, and

43:28

I wasn't the only one that said

43:31

somebody else said that I specifically to

43:33

be upset about it. So it's not

43:35

that I made It's not that I

43:37

hid that we were on a budget,

43:40

which made me feel a little bit better. But

43:43

so that was actually

43:46

a point of contention for us for a long time,

43:48

and like we got through it. Um,

43:51

but that was a

43:53

point I put my foot down and I was like,

43:55

I will only pay this much.

43:58

It's what I had budget it for. I'm

44:01

sorry if that seems rude.

44:04

Um, but you

44:06

should have consulted me and I could

44:08

have told you what my budget was and maybe you would

44:11

have, um, you know, gone

44:13

with something cheaper. I don't know. It's

44:16

different approaches to money that we

44:18

collide with. And I think you you see

44:21

how others approach their own finances

44:23

when you get into shared experiences

44:26

like that, I think the same can happen when

44:28

you're on vacation with people together or

44:31

Yeah, weddings are a perfect example,

44:33

all sorts of situations where we can see

44:35

people don't some some people

44:37

do not think about it. They just spend

44:40

whatever it takes. But then

44:42

the problem is where that's expected

44:44

of other people, and this is

44:46

a problem on both sides of not communicating

44:49

those expectations. Ultimately, that's

44:52

what it comes down to, that this person did

44:54

not communicate that this is what they were

44:56

going to do, and you did not have opportunity

44:59

to commune ak previously prior

45:02

to about that thing, or even

45:04

necessarily have the forethought that this is something

45:07

I could run into in this situation.

45:10

But now you know, and I

45:12

am sure that in other situations

45:15

where weddings have happened that now

45:17

you've had this experience to speak from

45:19

and say, Okay, how are we handling

45:21

finances? It's uncomfortable, but

45:23

it takes the guesswork out of it to

45:26

say, how is bridal shower being paid

45:28

for? How is bachelorrette being paid for? How

45:30

is what kinds of dresses are we going

45:32

for? What can we anticipate costs are going

45:35

to be for all of us? And what are

45:37

we comfortable with? Yeah? It

45:39

definitely. UM now I'm

45:41

currently a bridesmaid right now.

45:44

UM has made me cognizant of

45:47

being vocal and

45:49

honest and um

45:51

not just like playing

45:54

into just because everybody else is doing it. I

45:56

have to spend money on it, stuff like that. So

46:00

that's my story, just

46:02

sticking to it. Yeah, I've

46:04

got a couple of examples.

46:07

I don't only want to talk about the areas that

46:09

I crush it, so

46:12

I'll start here. I

46:14

will say that this is it is

46:16

and continues to be a learning experience

46:18

for me of where are my boundary lines? They

46:20

are different probably than yours, gen

46:23

or from anybody else that I could pass

46:25

on the street, and and that's okay

46:27

that we're all going to have different boundaries, but we need

46:29

to know where ours are. And

46:32

I would say that when I was young

46:35

twenties, I didn't

46:37

know this concept and

46:39

had a lot of faux pause

46:42

as a result of this. UM.

46:45

One particular thing comes to mind

46:47

that I had a friend UM

46:49

who was moving and

46:52

you know, to be helpful, I was like,

46:54

Hey, what how can I help? I'm headed

46:56

over there now, UM, what

46:58

what do you need for me? And they say, oh, actually

47:01

that's great. Uh, we're up to our knees,

47:03

you know, moving boxes. Would you be able to pick up pizzas

47:05

for everybody? And

47:08

so on the fly, I did that, picked

47:10

up a ton of pizzas. At the time.

47:12

I was very broke, like

47:15

beyond broke. UM

47:18

did not have a high paying job and had a

47:20

lot of student loans. Uh.

47:22

And I picked up all the pizzas

47:24

expecting and anticipating

47:27

that my friend who was moving would

47:30

pay me for those things. But I

47:32

never asked, and she

47:35

no malicious intent at

47:37

all or probably even thinking

47:39

about it. I think she was so caught up

47:42

in the move itself that

47:45

I never got reimbursed for

47:47

those pizzas. I probably spent close

47:50

to, if not more than, a hundred dollars

47:52

feeding everybody who was helping

47:54

this person move. They're

47:56

moving day. Yeah,

47:59

A tricky one for sure, but

48:02

could have been remedied by me

48:04

just speaking my needs. UM

48:06

either being okay with okay, this

48:09

is just a cost that I am willing to

48:11

anchor, or I can't afford

48:13

this and I need to actually just ask

48:15

for this money. I did not. I

48:17

did not. I just didn't have it in me

48:20

at the time to have asked. I wish I would

48:22

have, UM

48:23

now and you don't

48:25

even have to ask you just exactly.

48:29

But I think what I take from

48:31

that is, I mean, first of all, okay,

48:34

I'm not hurting from that money

48:36

to this day, but it

48:38

did show me I can't put that responsibility

48:41

on other people. Ultimately, that's

48:44

not her fault that she did not

48:46

pay me. I didn't ask, I

48:48

didn't speak my needs um

48:51

and and I'm the one who offered, what

48:53

do you need? And so

48:55

maybe being a little bit more specific about

48:58

what I'm able to do is in

49:00

if I could have anticipated, hey, do

49:02

you need me to pick up some pizzas? And then

49:04

you can just pay me when I get there, right

49:06

like, even that in a simple text

49:09

ahead of time could have been what

49:11

would have been helpful in the moment. So

49:14

anyhow, I've learned from that. My

49:16

takeaway now is to

49:19

communicate my expectations

49:22

and my needs if possible, ahead

49:24

of time. So an example of

49:26

how I do this currently or how how I

49:29

have done this in more recent years. You've

49:31

probably heard, if you've been listening to this podcast for a

49:33

while, that Eric and I have

49:36

a shared family boat with

49:38

his parents. We no longer get to enjoy it because

49:40

we live in Florida and the boat is still back up

49:42

in pa. Anyhow, we will often

49:45

have weekends where we get to take

49:47

the boat out and we invite a lot of

49:49

friends. There was a time

49:51

when we wouldn't say anything about it. We would

49:53

just take friends out. But then come

49:55

to realize, oof, we provided

49:58

snacks we paid, or the

50:00

gas we paid to tow the

50:02

thing. Maybe there was a cost to drop the

50:04

boat into the water. It easily

50:07

could is about a hundred dollars

50:09

when it comes to food, gas,

50:12

all these things to take the boat

50:14

out for a day.

50:17

And there would be times where I experienced bitterness

50:19

inside myself because of that. But I realized

50:22

if I speak my needs ahead of time, most

50:24

likely people are not going to have a problem

50:27

chipping in. So we would

50:29

send out with the invite text,

50:31

hey, bring your own snacks and

50:34

five bucks a person to chip in for gas.

50:36

Everybody was thrilled with it. We get to go

50:39

out on a boat, and I

50:41

was able to speak my needs and not have my

50:43

own boundaries crossed. It was a

50:45

fantastic compromise just because I

50:48

was able to speak up for myself and

50:50

communicate ahead of time. Is much easier

50:52

to ask for these things ahead of time than afterwards,

50:54

like oh, hey, that was

50:57

actually twenty bucks. Similar to what you're describing,

50:59

Jen, that feels unfair. It's like, well,

51:01

you didn't tell me that I would have probably made

51:03

a different decision if you had spoken that ahead

51:06

of time. You kind of chose for me that

51:08

now I owe you this amount of money. So

51:12

uh yeah, again, there

51:14

are land mines all over this. It's

51:16

okay to mess up. But

51:19

let's learn from these things. Let's speak

51:21

our needs, let's communicate expectations,

51:23

Let's identify where our boundary lines

51:26

fall, and be kinder to ourselves

51:28

and ultimately kinder to other people as

51:30

a result. Absolutely, be

51:32

clear and be kind. So

51:36

thanks so much for listening. We want to thank

51:38

you for your kind reviews

51:40

on iTunes and Stitcher, like this one

51:42

from Sea Why Burbs, a new

51:44

tool in my tool belt just happens

51:47

to be five stars. These ladies

51:49

are authentic, entertaining, and

51:51

knowledgeable. They inspired me to make my

51:53

first budget and feel confident on

51:55

deciding on a four oh one k account. Awesome.

51:59

I feel most millennials my age don't

52:01

know what they're doing when it comes to money and financial

52:03

planning. I will not be one of them

52:06

because of this podcast. I

52:08

truly appreciate that they touch on

52:10

how frugality affects the environment

52:13

and topics of self care. Mm

52:15

hmmm, why verbs,

52:17

But we're getting such kind

52:20

of genuine reviews

52:22

I'm here for and you know, keep leaving

52:25

them because we thank you our

52:27

listeners and friends who share these

52:29

episodes on social media. When you share

52:31

the latest episode on Facebook

52:34

or Instagram, we add you to our monthly

52:36

drawing. For every five tags

52:39

and reviews like the one Jen just read

52:41

we get, we give away each

52:44

month one copy of the Frugal

52:46

Friends workbook. So one copy of the workbook

52:48

for every five tags or reviews we get.

52:51

Yes, so keep leaving us reviews

52:53

on iTunes or to shirt and sending screenshots

52:56

to Frugal Friends podcast at gmail

52:59

dot com. Um and when you tag us

53:01

at Frugal Friends podcast on social

53:04

we will see that. See you next

53:06

week. I Frugal

53:10

Friends is produced, edited and mixed by

53:13

Eric Serria. Mm

53:23

hmmmm, so

53:25

much freedom with boundaries. I

53:28

know. It's like the budget

53:31

is a boundary for your money, and like

53:33

boundary boundaries are freedom

53:36

for your mental headspace.

53:39

So true. I feel

53:41

like it's one of the reasons that

53:44

I feel such a

53:46

friend, deeper friendship and

53:49

connection with you too, because

53:52

I think with any friendship, finances are

53:54

a part of it and the fact and and

53:57

a difficult thing to talk about. But

53:59

because you and I talk about finances

54:02

weekly together, I feel like we

54:05

understand each other more and are willing

54:07

to get into that territory

54:10

in a way that's like, not offensive

54:12

and gives greater freedom in the friendship.

54:16

Yeah. Can I have five dollars? Nope?

54:22

Back to our sponsor. Yeah,

54:29

okay, Bye,