0:01

This is The Guardian.

0:06

Hey Jane Lee here. The popular HBO

0:09

drama Succession has taken the world

0:11

by storm. It's all about the scheming

0:13

scandals of a family that owns a media

0:16

empire. As the show ends this

0:18

week, we thought we'd play you an episode from our Global

0:20

News podcast today in Focus, which

0:23

is all about the real life drama

0:25

playing out in the Murdoch Empire, one

0:27

of the families the show is loosely based

0:29

on. And don't worry, there won't be any spoilers

0:32

in this episode, so you can listen on without

0:34

fear. Here's host Michael Saffi.

0:37

The music. Yes,

0:39

sadly, the hit show

0:42

Succession wraps up this week. It's

0:44

a show about a fictional family, the

0:47

Roys, whose patriarch, Logan,

0:49

rules his media empire ruthlessly,

0:52

and whose children fight for his love, his

0:54

attention, and to take over the

0:56

family business.

0:59

The show's creator, Jesse Armstrong,

1:02

says it's not based on any one family,

1:04

but clearly one family

1:07

is a big inspiration.

1:09

There are people who will tell you that, yeah,

1:11

the scriptwriters must have had

1:14

someone on the inside of the Murdoch family,

1:16

literally feeding them plot

1:18

twists and lines. What

1:21

are the CEO vibes? The kids are

1:23

not equipped to take on the role. Who's

1:26

going to fire half that room? Who

1:28

would we prefer, one of us or one of the old guard?

1:36

We just saw reported in Vanity

1:38

Fair the other day, the suggestion that

1:40

in the divorce between Rupert Murdoch

1:43

and his fourth wife, Geri Hall, there

1:45

were clauses preventing

1:48

Geri from feeding information

1:51

back to the writers of Succession. The

1:54

fight for who takes over the Murdoch

1:56

empire, once Rupert retires

1:58

in one form or another.

1:59

has been speculated about for decades. It's

2:02

something three of Murdoch's children

2:04

in particular have been preparing for their

2:07

entire lives. If you

2:09

picture this palatial apartment with

2:11

the kids getting dressed up formally to see

2:14

their dad in the evening and then sit down and

2:16

be quiet while at

2:18

the dinner table, they listen

2:21

to conversations with the most

2:23

powerful people in New York. And

2:25

it is an extraordinary upbringing.

2:31

In the last few years, Rupert's successor

2:34

has become clear. But something

2:37

else has too. That Rupert's death

2:39

might not be the end of this particular drama.

2:42

It might be the beginning

2:44

of its most explosive chapter and

2:47

its consequences will not be fictional.

2:51

From The Guardian, I'm Michael Safi. Today

2:54

in focus, why the Murdoch

2:56

succession drama may not be ending

2:58

any time soon. MUSIC

3:07

Paddy Manning, you're a journalist who's written the first

3:09

biography of Lachlan Murdoch, Rupert Murdoch's

3:12

eldest son. The family patriarch

3:14

Rupert is 92 years old, an age

3:16

where life for most people would have slowed

3:18

down just a little bit. But Rupert

3:21

Murdoch is not most people and he's

3:23

had a pretty big year. Take us through it.

3:26

Absolutely. Rupert's been under

3:29

immense pressure this year, both kind

3:31

of professionally and to an extent

3:34

personally. The year began with

3:36

him giving sworn testimony.

3:39

He was deposed in the Dominion

3:41

case that was brought against Fox

3:43

Corporation two years ago in

3:46

the wake of the 2020 election and the January

3:48

6th insurrection. We're learning more

3:50

about the judge's ruling today and what it means

3:53

for the Dominion voting system. It's

3:55

a $1.6 billion lawsuit

3:57

against Fox.

3:59

the depositions they were released

4:02

in February. And it's remarkable

4:04

if you read them, how a 92

4:07

year old bears up in,

4:09

you know, some pretty testing

4:12

exchanges with lawyers for Dominion,

4:14

the voting machine manufacturer, but Rupert

4:17

was sharp, still sharp on

4:19

any reading of those transcripts.

4:22

For moments ago, we learned there

4:24

is a settlement, a settlement in

4:26

the high stakes trial between Dominion voting

4:28

systems

4:29

and Fox Dominion was suing

4:32

Fox for $1.6 billion, saying

4:34

that the network showed complete

4:36

and utter disregard

4:39

for truth and facts and accuracy

4:41

when they

4:42

allowed guests and hosts to

4:44

push false conspiracy theories that

4:47

the 2020 election had been stolen from Donald

4:49

Trump. They have written a check

4:51

for more than $780 million to

4:54

Dominion after settling in

4:56

a

4:57

very expensive settlement of that case.

5:00

They have had to fire their

5:03

biggest star in Tucker Carlson,

5:05

which has seen their ratings dies.

5:09

When honest people say what's true,

5:11

calmly and without embarrassment, they

5:14

become powerful. At the same

5:16

time, the liars who've been trying to silence

5:18

them shrink and they become

5:20

weaker. That's the iron law of the universe,

5:23

true things prevail. And

5:25

then personally, having been

5:28

divorced from his fourth wife,

5:30

Jerry Hall in 2022,

5:32

Rupert found himself in the middle of

5:34

an affair, a kind of romantic affair

5:37

with Anne Leslie Smith. And then

5:39

soon, early this year, announced an engagement

5:42

to her if the marriage

5:44

had gone ahead would have been his fifth.

5:47

And at the time he joked that he

5:49

looked forward to spending his second

5:51

half of his life with the woman

5:54

Anne Leslie Smith.

5:55

But within weeks, the engagement

5:57

was called off in the affair. pulled

6:00

out of it. It has been an

6:02

extraordinary year and we're not even

6:05

halfway through it.

6:11

And so at this point in Murdoch's life,

6:14

what kind of empire is he presiding

6:16

over? The Murdoch Media Empire

6:19

in 2023 is

6:22

actually diminished. You know,

6:24

at the beginning of the century, you know,

6:26

you could argue that

6:28

the Murdoch Media Empire had kind of reached

6:30

a peak of its influence. It spanned

6:33

five continents. It included

6:36

the Fox

6:37

film and television studios that

6:40

were, you know, the entertainment side

6:42

of the business in America that was sold

6:44

to Disney for $71 billion. It

6:47

also at its peak included

6:50

the Sky, Europe broadcast

6:53

and PTV operation, Star

6:55

TV in Asia, legacy

6:57

newspapers from the

6:59

Wall Street Journal and the New York Post in America

7:02

to the Times of

7:04

London and The Sun.

7:06

And in Australia, a stable

7:08

that includes a whole bunch of tabloid newspapers

7:11

like the Daily Telegraph in Sydney or

7:13

the Herald Sun in Melbourne and the Australian,

7:15

the national broadsheet.

7:17

So that's one way to measure the Murdoch

7:19

Empire as a list of media entities

7:21

and companies and entertainment networks. But the

7:24

other way is in the force that they managed

7:26

to exert in democracies around the world. So tell me about that

7:28

element of it.

7:31

Rupert Murdoch has been

7:33

prepared to campaign

7:36

as a media proprietor in favor

7:39

of governments left and right. In

7:42

fact, if you look over the history of his empire

7:44

in Australia, the United States and

7:47

the United Kingdom as it suited

7:49

him. And actually,

7:51

it's the academic manual Castelles who said that

7:54

the business model that the Murdoch's have developed

7:56

is one in which there's a kind

7:58

of trade. political

8:01

favour is exchanged

8:04

for regulatory favour. And that is

8:07

quite a powerful business model if you think about

8:09

it.

8:10

And we've heard a lot about

8:12

the power that Rupert Murdoch wields over the past

8:14

few decades. In the 1992 election,

8:17

the Sun newspaper openly claimed

8:19

they were responsible for the Conservatives winning. They

8:22

bragged in a headline, it's the Sun, what won it. A

8:24

few years later, Tony Blair, then opposition

8:27

leader, flew halfway across the

8:29

world to Australia to meet Murdoch and

8:31

try to persuade him to stop tearing Labour

8:33

apart in his papers. Murdoch, of

8:35

course, denies ever exchanging political

8:38

favours for anything. He told

8:40

the Leveson inquiry. I've

8:42

never asked a Prime Minister for anything. And

8:46

have you openly pushed your commercial interest

8:48

by using your newspaper powers? Is

8:50

that right? No. I

8:54

take a particularly strong pride in the fact

8:56

that we've never pushed our commercial interests

8:59

in our newspapers. But Paddy, it's

9:01

clear that Murdoch runs a media

9:04

company, but also this extraordinary

9:06

force in our democracies. And so the

9:09

question of who inherits

9:10

that force is vitally important.

9:13

As in the show, Succession, it's

9:15

three of his kids who have spent their lives

9:18

effectively auditioning for that role. Who

9:20

are they?

9:21

It is a fascinating story. Rupert,

9:24

as I mentioned earlier, he's been married four

9:26

times. His

9:28

first marriage, he had one daughter,

9:30

Prudence, who has never worked in

9:32

the business.

9:34

It was his second marriage to Anna

9:36

Torv, as she was, who

9:38

he married in 1969 and had three children.

9:42

And that marriage lasted for 33 years. And

9:46

Rupert and Anna had three children. And the eldest was

9:48

Elizabeth, who now

9:51

lives in England. She started off, she was

9:53

interested in television and she has had a successful

9:56

career working, first

9:58

of all, working her way up.

9:59

through the Murdoch Empire.

10:02

I mean, she felt she was hitting a ceiling. And

10:04

she said at that time, at the end of the 90s, that

10:07

she felt it was easier to be a Murdoch outside

10:10

the family company.

10:11

Plenty of people who have worked inside the Murdoch

10:13

Meteor Empire who will say, oh,

10:16

Elizabeth was the smartest one. She was the

10:18

one that had the most promise, but she was never in

10:20

the contention for the succession.

10:23

Yes, you have met some

10:25

of my family before.

10:35

The committee may be less than keen on

10:37

women, but by God,

10:40

you do love a Murdoch.

10:42

And this is

10:44

a kind of criticism

10:46

that Rupert Murdoch had. You know,

10:48

always kind of

10:50

favored his sons, if you like.

10:53

Which brings us to Lachlan. And Lachlan,

10:56

as the eldest son, born in 1971 in London,

11:00

in a famous interview that Rupert gave

11:03

with the Financial Times in the 90s,

11:05

he was sort of seen as the apple of Rupert's

11:08

eye. And the one who Rupert said at

11:10

that time was first among equals.

11:12

As the eldest son, he was

11:14

sort of the natural successor. Lachlan

11:17

is the one who took the most interest in

11:20

the newspaper side of the family

11:22

business. He talked about the

11:25

joy of going into the Watch the Printing

11:27

Presses at the New York Post role when he was

11:29

just a young kid.

11:31

Both James and I, we've grown

11:33

up in newsrooms, right? We understand

11:35

journalism, and we understand

11:38

the importance of it. And then by the way, it's something that's

11:41

sincerely and deeply under threat at the moment.

11:44

And then there's James, just

11:46

a couple of years younger than Lachlan,

11:49

intensely competitive with Lachlan

11:52

by their own account of their childhood. They

11:54

used to fight like two cats in a bag, as

11:57

brothers do. But

11:59

yeah. He was never interested in

12:02

the newspaper side of the business, never really

12:04

spent a hell of a lot of

12:05

time in Australia. Was

12:08

you know, started his career actually, he dropped

12:10

out of business school and started a rap label.

12:12

Really? Yeah, yeah, Raucous Records.

12:15

Raucous Records, okay. I'm guessing that's

12:17

the inspiration for one particular

12:20

scene from the show. When

12:22

Kendall delivers a special musical

12:24

performance for his dad at a company

12:27

event. I

12:29

call myself humming that tune once

12:32

and cringed hard enough to pull a muscle.

12:34

James has never done that though. Tell me

12:36

about him. You know,

12:38

people say he's the one who's got the management

12:41

speak. He was the one who, I mean,

12:43

he was

12:43

the youngest CEO of a top FTSE 100

12:46

company when he took over Sky

12:48

in the UK in the early

12:51

aughts. And he was, he racked

12:53

up some real wins as a CEO.

12:56

As Orwell foretold, to let the state

12:58

enjoy a near monopoly of information

13:01

is to guarantee manipulation

13:03

and distortion.

13:05

That we must have a plurality of voices

13:08

and they must be independent.

13:10

So it's those three kids, Liz,

13:12

Lachlan and James, who were seen as

13:14

the real contenders to take over the business. How

13:17

did they grow up and what kind of father was

13:19

Rupert Murdoch?

13:20

Senator Murdoch once said, quote,

13:23

in a very rare interview that

13:26

Rupert wasn't a restly daddy. He

13:28

wasn't sort of cuddly, warm. He has

13:31

a prodigious work ethic

13:33

and always has throughout his career.

13:36

And so in many ways,

13:39

he was an absent father.

13:42

I think we all as children pick

13:44

up things by osmosis. That's

13:47

probably why I'm not musical. I never picked that up.

13:49

But I think in my own family that my children,

13:52

because they hear so much talked about newspapers,

13:55

they live with it all the time. They

13:57

hear all the discussions at the breakfast table.

13:59

They have a love for

14:02

it that is totally indescribable

14:05

to people outside. But

14:07

the children, when they've been interviewed,

14:10

also recall with some

14:12

fondness waking up early in the

14:14

morning to see their dad. Every

14:16

morning they're going through the newspapers, the New

14:19

York Post, Wall Street Journal, The Times,

14:21

going through the newspapers going, yeah, this

14:23

is a good story, that's a bad headline, that's a great

14:25

headline, this is well subbed, look at the error here.

14:28

And so they were kind of junior media moguls

14:31

from a

14:31

very early age.

14:41

So Patty, there are some key moments in this

14:43

story and one of them is the early

14:45

2000s when Liz, James

14:47

and Lachlan are all working in the media business

14:49

in some form. And Lachlan is already

14:52

considered the heir and he's working in

14:54

New York. And then

14:57

in 2005, all of a sudden, he walks out on

14:59

the American business. Why is that?

15:01

Well, in some ways, I think Liz had

15:04

paved the way for the decision that

15:06

Lachlan took. At that time, Lachlan

15:08

was locking horns with Peter Ternan,

15:11

who was then chief operating officer at News

15:13

Corporation and Rupert's right hand man,

15:16

highly regarded Hollywood executive.

15:19

And

15:20

he was also having a dispute, a simmering

15:22

kind of dispute with Roger Ailes, the founder of Fox

15:24

News himself. So there

15:27

was no love lost between Roger

15:29

Ailes and Lachlan Murdoch. And in fact,

15:32

Roger's widow, Elizabeth,

15:33

just recently was

15:35

saying that Ailes used to talk in

15:38

absolutely disparaging terms about

15:41

both Lachlan and James, I think he

15:43

called them dumb and dumber. At

15:45

the time, he was the most powerful person,

15:48

this is the one person that Rupert didn't want

15:50

to cross was Roger Ailes. And

15:53

he had his own fiefdom at Fox

15:55

News, it was run very much as his own fiefdom.

15:59

And he was going to be told what to do. This

16:02

simmering distrust, if you like, came

16:05

to a head over quite

16:07

a

16:08

minor programming decision.

16:10

It was about a series called Crime Line and

16:13

Rupert backed

16:14

Roger over Lachlan.

16:17

Rupert has later said this

16:19

is the worst decision of his life,

16:21

the thing he most regrets. For Lachlan,

16:23

it wasn't about the series. It was about the

16:25

fact that his father would undermine

16:28

him. At that point, he quit.

16:31

He threw all that in. He just

16:33

got married himself. He had two

16:35

other supermodels, Sarah Murdoch,

16:38

formerly Sarah O'Hare. He had

16:41

a kid. They

16:43

were expecting their first son. He

16:45

threw it all in and just said, I would rather

16:48

work

16:49

and live in Sydney. That's

16:52

what he did for the best part of the next decade.

16:54

He was sitting in Australia.

16:56

And so with Lachlan

16:58

out of the way, it's James who's considered

17:01

the next in line to take over the family business.

17:03

And you've got outlets like the New York Times writing

17:05

profiles, calling him the leader in waiting.

17:08

It looks like the whole succession drama

17:10

might be over. And then a terrible

17:13

scandal hits the company, one that

17:15

they're still dealing with to this day.

17:18

Tell me about it.

17:19

It was like a slow kind of train

17:21

wreck. So in 2011, the Guardian reports that

17:25

the reporters at the News of the World

17:28

had hacked into the phones of murdered British

17:31

schoolgirl Millie Dowler. In the weeks

17:33

that 13 year old Millie Dowler was missing

17:36

and her loved ones were desperately waiting for

17:38

news, a private detective working

17:41

for the News of the World hacked into

17:43

her mobile phone and listened to her

17:45

voicemails.

17:45

This really is an earthquake

17:48

here. Take a look at the morning papers here. The Daily

17:50

Telegraph, Goodbye, cruel world. Rupert

17:52

Murdoch owns a bunch of papers here. His son, world's

17:55

end. The Times, he also owns that hacked

17:58

to death.

17:59

his media empire to

18:02

the core. In fact most of the

18:04

conduct had occurred a decade earlier but

18:07

people had generally thought that it was confined

18:09

to hacking the voicemails of

18:12

you know the elite, the royal family, sports

18:15

people, politicians, celebrities,

18:17

but here was the phone being

18:20

hacked of an ordinary

18:22

schoolgirl

18:23

who had disappeared. That became

18:25

the worst crisis the Murdoch media empire

18:28

had faced. Certainly since they

18:30

almost went broke launching BSCIB originally

18:32

back in 91 and it split

18:34

the company and it split the family. It

18:37

also changed the

18:38

dynamic of the succession because James

18:41

Murdoch who had risen all the way to

18:44

the top of News International which was the

18:46

ultimate parent company running the British

18:49

and European operations. James

18:51

was tarnished unavoidably by

18:54

the fallout from this scandal.

18:57

He had not been responsible for the newspapers

18:59

in any way shape or form when the phone

19:01

hacking occurred but he now was

19:04

the face of the scandal along

19:06

with his father Rupert.

19:08

This is the most humble day of my life.

19:10

James and I would like to say how sorry

19:13

we are for what has happened. Invading

19:15

people's privacy by listening to

19:17

their voicemail is wrong. Paying

19:21

police officers for information is wrong.

19:24

It's a matter of great regret

19:26

of mine, my father's and

19:28

everyone at News Corporation.

19:31

So then how does this

19:34

scandal and the way that James handles

19:36

it impact on Rupert's thinking

19:38

about who he hands this company over to?

19:41

As the phone hacking scandal enveloped

19:44

the company Loughlin gets a call from

19:46

James in the middle of the crisis saying

19:49

you have to come to London otherwise

19:51

Rupert's going to find me and Loughlin

19:54

does that. He flies out from Australia

19:57

and he is completely untarnished.

20:00

by the phone hacking scandal. He's kind of the

20:02

last man standing and Rupert looks at

20:04

him and decides that he

20:06

wants him back in the business. He needs him back

20:08

in the business. In 2015,

20:12

they come up with a plan, which is

20:14

that Lachlan and James

20:17

will share control of

20:19

21st Century Fox. Lachlan

20:22

and the then chief operating officer, Chase

20:25

Carey,

20:26

sit down at a lunch with

20:28

James and tell him that

20:31

the successor has to be Lachlan.

20:34

Lachlan and

20:36

Chase sit down and deliver this message

20:39

to James. They will share control, but

20:42

James would have the chief executive's role,

20:44

but Lachlan would be the chairman.

20:48

For James to sit down and be told this, not

20:50

by Rupert, not by his father, but

20:52

by Lachlan and Chase, that

20:54

was an affront. He was

20:56

outraged

20:58

and he storms out of the lunch.

21:00

He jets off to Bali and yet they

21:02

do manage to come to something like a power

21:04

sharing agreement that

21:06

holds together for the next couple

21:08

of years. Rupert Murdoch has a media

21:11

empire worth some $10 billion

21:13

and two sons, Lachlan and James, getting

21:16

more and more control.

21:18

But I think it was clear

21:20

from that moment on that in Rupert's

21:22

eyes and in the eyes of the board,

21:25

Lachlan was the eventual successor.

21:31

Coming up, the threat buried in

21:33

the Murdoch family business that

21:35

might ruin Lachlan's succession.

21:49

Paddy, the fact that Lachlan returns

21:51

to the heart of the business in 2015 proves

21:54

really crucial, not just for the Murdochs, but

21:56

arguably for the whole world. It's at

21:58

this time that the US is about to enter

22:01

one of the most divisive periods in its recent

22:03

history. Tell me about what

22:05

happens and what it does to the

22:07

Murdoch family.

22:08

What happens is that Lachlan and James come

22:11

to an uneasy truce, working together,

22:13

still for their father of course, but working

22:16

together to manage 21st Century Fox.

22:18

And for a time they succeeded. Both

22:21

sons had helped Rupert through his painful

22:24

divorce with third wife Wendy Deng and

22:26

in early 2016 they were delighted

22:29

when he announced he would marry

22:31

former supermodel Jerry Hall. Rupert

22:34

was actually holidaying with Jerry on the

22:36

French Riviera in July 2016

22:39

when Gretchen Carlson made her sexual

22:42

harassment allegations against Fox

22:44

News Chief Roger Ailes. Those

22:46

sexual harassment allegations against one of

22:48

the most powerful men in television news.

22:51

Fox News host Gretchen Carlson has filed a lawsuit

22:53

against the network's CEO Roger Ailes claiming

22:56

she was fired because she refused his advances.

22:58

Lachlan and James decide that they

23:01

will appoint an independent legal

23:03

firm to investigate the allegations

23:05

against Ailes.

23:07

Within two weeks, Ailes is out

23:09

the door. That happens at the same

23:12

time as the Republican

23:15

Party is deciding

23:17

on their nominee for the president. At that moment,

23:20

post Ailes, it was not clear there was a tussle between

23:22

the family as to

23:41

what

23:47

direction Fox might take. James

23:50

wanted to hire David Rose,

23:52

the CBS executive,

23:55

to

23:56

bring Fox News back to the middle. Rupert

23:59

and Lachlan decide

23:59

that there was no point adjusting a model

24:02

that was working

24:03

well. And they are

24:05

kind of vindicated when Trump wins

24:08

the election against all predictions at

24:10

the end of 2016. And Lachlan

24:12

says so in interviews at the

24:14

time that the election result itself

24:16

showed that they'd taken the right decision.

24:19

But the division that Trump brings

24:21

to America also sounds inside

24:24

the family. And Lachlan

24:26

and James are increasingly at odds.

24:29

It's striking just how

24:31

at odds the brothers have become. James

24:33

has publicly criticised Fox News in

24:36

interviews and he and his wife have said that News

24:38

Corp's coverage of the climate crisis in

24:40

particular was especially concerning. So

24:43

much so that in 2020 James

24:45

quit the board of News Corp.

24:48

James Murdoch, the son of

24:50

media mogul Rupert Murdoch, has resigned

24:52

from the board of News Corp. He cited

24:55

disagreements over editorial content

24:57

at the company, which was founded by his conservative

25:00

father. Murdoch said his resignation

25:02

was quote, due to disagreements over

25:04

certain editorial content published by

25:07

the company's news outlets and certain

25:09

other strategic decisions.

25:12

As of today, James has severed

25:14

his ties with the company. He reportedly

25:16

didn't attend either of Rupert's 90th

25:19

birthday parties. But, Paddy,

25:21

crucially, James still has an

25:23

important say in the future of the company.

25:26

And that's because of the way the Murdoch family

25:28

trust has been structured. Tell me about

25:30

that.

25:31

In the divorce settlement between Rupert

25:33

and Anna, there was an agreement,

25:36

a hard fought. It took years. But

25:38

Anna Murdoch held on.

25:41

She left a lot of money on the table

25:43

because what she wanted to secure

25:46

was that her children

25:48

would inherit control of the Murdoch

25:50

media empire. And the

25:52

structure of the trust was that

25:54

Rupert would own four shares while

25:58

his four elder children Prue,

26:01

Leiz, Lachlan and James

26:03

would have one each.

26:05

And what that sets up is a situation

26:07

where when Rupert does

26:10

pass away, his votes will

26:14

effectively expire with him.

26:16

It will become a decision between

26:18

the four elder children as

26:20

to how they vote. And Lachlan's

26:22

power will, he will be just one

26:25

of four, rather than at the

26:27

moment where he is clearly the designated

26:30

successor to Rupert.

26:32

That is extraordinary. There's

26:35

this time bomb in the structure

26:37

of the trust waiting to potentially

26:39

go off once Rupert dies. Do we

26:42

have any sense of what that might mean

26:44

for Lachlan and for his succession?

26:47

Well,

26:48

Lachlan is secure while Rupert

26:50

is alive. The siblings

26:53

are biding their time. Rupert's

26:56

in control of the business for now and that is

26:59

no question with Lachlan

27:01

working alongside him

27:03

and increasingly taking over the reins

27:06

in a kind of orderly succession. But

27:10

when

27:11

Rupert dies and Lachlan

27:13

is only one of four votes amongst

27:16

his three siblings

27:18

on the Murdoch Family Trust,

27:20

there is a real danger that

27:22

he'll be rolled. I quoted

27:24

in the book one Wall Street analyst who

27:27

said, who was very familiar with the dynamics

27:30

within the family and said, it's

27:32

fair to assume that the

27:35

day Rupert dies

27:37

is the day that Lachlan gets fired. Now, you

27:39

know, it's unlikely that that will happen exactly

27:42

that way. But what I understand

27:44

is that

27:45

there is a concern amongst Lachlan

27:48

siblings about the direction of

27:51

Fox Corporation and Fox News in particular.

27:54

And there is a determination to

27:56

reassert control of the business and

27:59

to do it in a way.

27:59

that promotes and enhances democracies

28:02

around the world rather than undermine

28:04

them. That has put Lachlan at odds with

28:07

his siblings and my understanding is

28:09

that

28:10

their intention is to

28:13

reassert control of

28:15

the business once Rupert passes and that could

28:17

be a dangerous moment

28:19

for Lachlan.

28:20

Paddy, just finally, a lot of people

28:23

listening to this will be preparing to watch

28:25

the last episode of Succession or

28:27

else mourning the end of the show, one of the

28:29

really great TV dramas of the last few

28:32

years. Why do you think that

28:34

story has captured the imagination

28:36

of so many millions of people?

28:38

Succession is giving us a glimpse of

28:41

a rarefied world

28:43

of power and money that

28:45

most people can only imagine. What

28:49

we have seen in

28:51

Succession is a familiar dynamic

28:53

play out where

28:55

the

28:56

aging patriarch is

28:59

confronted with a dilemma.

29:01

Which of his children to favour? But

29:04

I think what people are seeing is a

29:06

possible