0:27

Welcome to Future Construct . I'm Mark Odin

0:29

, the CEO of BIM Designs Inc . And guest host

0:31

of Future Construct . Today I'm

0:33

hosting Mustafa El-Ashmawi , head

0:35

of BIM and GIS at

0:37

WSP Middle East . Welcome

0:39

, mustafa . Thank you for making the time to join me

0:41

. Thanks .

0:43

Mark , it's my pleasure .

0:45

Mustafa , you have an in-depth knowledge of

0:47

architectural , landscape and MEP

0:49

. You've worked as a global

0:51

BIM manager , worked on many of the most significant

0:54

construction projects in the Middle East over the

0:56

last 12 years , delivering , coordinating

0:58

and managing BIM , gis and CAD deliverables

1:00

. You've used your knowledge

1:02

and experience to implement BIM and provide

1:04

digitization strategies for your organization

1:07

and clients . You obtain a master's

1:09

degree in global BIM management and are certified

1:11

by many respectful information management organizations

1:14

. You've also acquired a deep academic

1:16

knowledge of internal standards , methods

1:18

and procedures related to information management . With

1:21

so much experience , you're continually and positively influencing

1:23

the digital construction market . Thank

1:25

you for all of your many contributions in the AAC

1:28

space , mustafa .

1:30

Thanks , mark , thank you .

1:33

To kick off the podcast , I'm wondering with

1:35

your extensive experience , I'd first

1:37

love to know how you got your start in the industry

1:40

. Over the course of your career

1:42

, the projects you've played a role in and

1:44

altered and brought positive change to

1:46

the industry in

1:48

the way that you want to see the

1:50

industry project management practices change

1:53

or grow . If we could just learn a little bit about you

1:55

.

1:56

Okay . So it all started

1:58

before college . I

2:01

dreamt of joining

2:03

engineering college for a long time

2:06

and even had a small fight with

2:08

my dad to join engineering

2:10

college . But then , once

2:12

I joined , I chose to

2:14

join the civil engineering

2:16

department and focused

2:19

on structural engineering for a long

2:21

time . I was amazed by 30

2:24

of structures , how loads go through

2:26

buildings and

2:28

how it's transferred from an element to an element

2:30

. But then when I

2:33

was graduated from civil engineering

2:35

faculty

2:38

, I worked in the steel

2:40

structure field for

2:42

a bit short

2:45

time At that

2:47

part of my career I worked

2:50

as a technical office engineer

2:52

. Also for

2:54

a certain period of time I worked

2:57

as a site engineer . So

2:59

during the first two years after

3:01

graduation I jumped through

3:04

several positions

3:06

. I worked for contractors , for

3:08

fabricators , designers

3:10

. I even worked as

3:13

an instructor for some

3:15

software and

3:17

during this part

3:20

also being

3:22

an instructor for this engineering

3:24

software led into me

3:26

mastering more and more of these software

3:29

. So being

3:31

part of the AAC

3:33

industry from my perspective

3:36

was more of being involved in the

3:39

digital engineering part

3:41

of the industry . So I learned

3:45

many software , at the beginning focused

3:47

on the drafting

3:49

and modeling

3:52

, then started developing

3:54

these skills further when

3:57

I understood

3:59

that there is

4:01

much larger world called BEM

4:03

. So at the beginning I was just a

4:06

bit professional , but

4:08

then I started

4:10

looking at BEM from

4:13

an information management perspective . I

4:15

took a master in global

4:18

BEM management , which helped

4:20

me a lot in the next steps

4:23

working for WSP

4:26

as part of the project management services

4:29

department and just

4:32

before joining WSP

4:34

. There was a specific

4:36

incident

4:40

that happened at one of the projects

4:42

that drew my attention

4:45

to the way we manage

4:47

projects , where I

4:50

attended a meeting with lots

4:52

of senior engineers and

4:54

many decision

4:56

makers and in that meeting

4:59

we spent around 20

5:01

to 30 minutes discussing a very small

5:03

box of concrete three

5:05

meters by three meters . Everybody

5:08

was trying to avoid having this in their

5:10

scope and then we realized , hey

5:12

guys , you are discussing

5:14

something that

5:16

worth nothing compared to

5:19

the salaries and

5:21

the hours spent by all

5:23

of these people in this room . So

5:26

I thought that if

5:28

such small box was

5:30

properly identified in

5:33

a digital environment

5:36

or in a BEM model with clear scopes

5:38

defined , so that

5:41

specific meeting get

5:43

me to think more about how

5:45

we can enable these

5:48

kind of decision

5:50

makers and key personnel

5:52

in projects to manage the project more

5:54

efficiently without wasting time in

5:56

discussions and

5:58

disputes , using

6:01

BEM as a tool to

6:03

facilitate this . And yeah

6:05

, that's mainly what

6:08

it is for this book .

6:11

Well , thank you for the background . I'm very

6:13

curious about how , coming out

6:16

of that meeting and the positive change that you wanted

6:18

to bring to the industry , where

6:20

have you applied the efficient management

6:23

of BEM to make the best

6:25

use of everybody's time ? Do you have some examples of

6:27

that ?

6:28

Yeah , a lot . We

6:31

currently try

6:34

to always have

6:36

the digital twin

6:39

or I will not call

6:41

it a digital twin , let's say a digital

6:43

representation of the

6:45

project as detailed

6:48

as needed to support

6:51

data driven decision

6:53

making . So when

6:55

it comes , for example , to contributing

6:58

to a project at bidding stage

7:00

, I always try to have

7:02

a BEM model that's ready

7:05

for estimation so that

7:07

we can have better quantities

7:10

, better estimates , cost

7:12

estimates to apply or

7:15

to propose the best bid in this

7:17

project . And if , for example

7:19

, we are joining into a

7:21

design part , I want

7:23

always to ensure that my

7:25

BEM models are ready for collaboration

7:29

, for coordination . So the

7:31

way that I'm using

7:33

the digital tools currently

7:36

is to ensure that there

7:39

is always a BEM model or

7:41

a digital model fit

7:43

for the best needed to manage the

7:45

project . There are many other

7:47

examples , but I may elaborate

7:50

on it a bit late .

7:52

Yeah , absolutely . Thank you so much for sharing that

7:54

and switching back to work topics

7:56

. You're at WSP now , which is

7:58

one of the world's largest engineering firms

8:00

. What brought you to WSP ?

8:05

So basically WSP

8:07

was a dream for me . Before

8:10

WSP I worked for design

8:13

and build contractor . I

8:16

was more of a bin

8:18

manager plus a technical coordinator

8:21

, looking to my technical

8:23

experience . So I was using

8:26

all what I learned to

8:28

support the design

8:30

and construction process . But

8:33

I have always looked to WSP

8:35

as a place where I can

8:37

develop myself , develop myself

8:40

and be more

8:42

innovative . And the

8:44

opportunity came when WSP wanted

8:48

to , or posted

8:50

a job about , a bin

8:52

manager for a project here in Nuriad

8:54

, saudi Arabia , as part

8:56

of their project management services

8:58

and at that time when I applied

9:01

, I passed in

9:03

the interview and immediately

9:06

after joining I started

9:08

not saying that I

9:11

can add not

9:13

only learn from WSP , but

9:15

also add from my experience

9:17

to fill the gaps that's

9:19

available in the organization

9:22

related to BIM . So I helped

9:24

in developing better

9:26

BIM strategy for the project management

9:28

services department and

9:30

also started to integrate

9:32

BIM and GIS and

9:36

to achieve more

9:38

efficient delivery of the project

9:41

. Wsp

9:43

in the Middle East operates

9:46

in four different business

9:48

units . Two of them are

9:50

more of design consultants and

9:53

one is a project management

9:55

consultancy and another

9:57

business unit which is advisory

9:59

. So in my

10:02

business unit my role is more of

10:04

supporting the clients in

10:06

defining the requirements and

10:08

also helping the client

10:10

in supervising the

10:13

various consultants and contractors and

10:15

other stakeholders involved in the project

10:17

. So this role gave me better

10:21

control

10:23

on the digital delivery of projects

10:25

.

10:28

Very cool , and how long have you been at WSP

10:30

now ?

10:31

Yeah , it's around three and

10:34

a half year .

10:35

Well . Congratulations on your tenure and your growth . I

10:39

imagine , working for WSP and

10:41

living in Saudi Arabia , that you've

10:44

encountered a number of innovations , having worked

10:46

on massive giga projects . I'd

10:48

love to hear some examples of some of these cutting edge

10:50

technologies and methodologies that you've witnessed

10:53

that have significantly

10:55

transformed the AGC industry .

10:57

Yeah , first thing that I

11:00

learned in WSP is something

11:03

we call Future Ready . Future

11:05

Ready is a program in WSP

11:08

that's focused

11:11

on ensuring that

11:13

everybody in the organization deliver

11:16

future ready solutions to our

11:18

client . So

11:21

when we are designing a

11:24

project , for example , we need to think that this

11:26

project will live for hundreds

11:28

of years . So we want to

11:30

ensure that this building

11:33

, for example , will not only serve

11:35

people that are

11:37

living now but their descendants

11:39

also . So same

11:42

happens when we are managing

11:45

a project . We need to ensure

11:47

that all stakeholders in

11:49

the project have the same mentality , understand

11:52

the life cycle

11:55

of the project to ensure that everything

11:57

is made to be future

11:59

ready . And part

12:02

of the innovative

12:05

solutions that were introduced

12:08

and I'm a very big fan

12:10

of and WSP

12:13

is constantly developing

12:15

in them is Digital

12:17

Twins . So Digital Twins

12:19

, specifically , is one of my

12:21

main focus areas . I

12:24

am doing

12:26

some researches on this topic

12:28

and also supporting in developing

12:31

some strategies for this . The

12:34

concept of Digital Twin is

12:36

to ensure that we have

12:38

a Digital Twin

12:40

that's linked with the physical assets

12:42

and we have , in

12:46

the best case scenario , two-way

12:49

link between the

12:51

digital and the physical assets . So

12:54

in that way , we can control

12:56

the physical assets using the Digital Twin

12:58

and also gather

13:00

data from the physical assets into

13:03

the Digital Twin to make analysis

13:05

and so on . Another

13:08

tool

13:10

or technology that I'm

13:12

involved

13:15

in implementing

13:17

in some projects is

13:20

some applications of the

13:23

larger world of the metaverse

13:25

. So I will not say that I

13:28

have delivered such a

13:30

complete solution under the

13:32

metaverse , but many

13:34

sub-projects

13:37

or many smaller

13:39

solutions . That applies the same concept

13:42

where we have a digital

13:45

reality that can support in

13:47

either managing the construction

13:50

process or supporting clients after

13:52

construction . So

13:55

these are mainly two

13:58

technologies that I'm

14:00

a big fan of

14:02

and , on the same time , heavily immersed

14:05

in . One last thing

14:07

that I'm usually promoting

14:09

and supporting is the

14:11

modular construction , because

14:14

it's an important concept

14:17

from my point of view and it helps a

14:19

lot in the sustainability of

14:21

our projects . So

14:24

having prefab

14:26

parts of the buildings as much

14:28

as we can will support

14:30

in having

14:32

, let's

14:34

say , replaceable parts

14:36

of our building in the future and

14:39

also it will enhance the

14:41

design process . It will help in

14:43

longer life for our projects .

14:47

That sounds absolutely incredible and I love that domain and

14:49

all of those topics . They all intertwine and

14:52

they help for a better digital and a physical

14:54

environment . So I love your focus

14:57

on that and I'm very excited

14:59

to speak with you about some

15:01

of these large scale projects that you may have experienced

15:04

on In the Middle East

15:06

. I'd love to really hear about your involvement

15:09

on these very large , mega

15:11

scale projects like the Red Sea project

15:13

and Neon , which is otherwise called

15:15

the line . Can you describe

15:17

the scale of these projects and

15:19

really help our audience understand the

15:22

massive element of this ?

15:25

Yeah , so specifically these

15:27

two projects that you mentioned , the Red

15:29

Sea and Neon , are really

15:31

massive . So , for example , the

15:33

Red Sea project is around

15:36

28,000 km2

15:38

and Neon is

15:41

around 26,000 km2 . So

15:44

as far as I know and I

15:46

did some small research

15:48

before another

15:51

webinar that I was doing about the giga

15:53

projects in Saudi Arabia this

15:56

area around 26,000

15:59

to 28,000

16:01

km2 is more

16:04

than the size of , or

16:06

the area of , many countries . Actually

16:09

, to be more precise , around 50 countries

16:11

are smaller than this

16:13

area . So I

16:16

really appreciate the

16:19

work done in these projects and I

16:22

always look about how these

16:25

huge projects are managed . And

16:28

just to explain

16:30

something about Neon , for example

16:32

, so the line is

16:34

one of the projects under

16:36

Neon . So a project like Neon

16:39

has around I

16:41

don't know how many projects under it , but

16:43

it have many , many larger

16:46

, large projects below it , so

16:48

the line is one of them . There is

16:50

Trugina , there

16:52

is some other amazing

16:55

projects , and the good thing in

16:57

Neon is that almost

16:59

every district or every

17:01

part or every project

17:04

under Neon has a unique

17:06

design

17:08

and a unique intent

17:12

for use . So

17:16

the main pattern that

17:18

you would notice in the Saudi

17:21

giga projects is that they

17:23

are trying to make

17:26

things that we think impossible

17:28

. They are trying to make it normal

17:31

or trying to make

17:33

it real

17:36

. So some

17:38

of these projects have a

17:40

very long life cycle

17:43

. So , for example , some of these projects will

17:46

last in construction

17:48

for more than 10

17:50

years . It will be delivered

17:52

phase by phase . So you will notice

17:54

, starting 2024

17:57

, some delivery of these projects

17:59

. For example , red

18:01

Sea is delivering their

18:03

first hotel during

18:05

2024 . But

18:08

still , there will be lots and lots of work

18:10

done for this

18:12

project through the upcoming years . The

18:15

main challenge that I can see facing

18:18

these projects , for

18:22

example , logistics , coordination

18:24

, the availability

18:26

of resources that can deliver

18:29

all of this huge

18:31

work at the same time simultaneously

18:34

in or

18:36

across Saudi Arabia , because Nium

18:38

and Red Sea are at the western

18:41

part of Saudi Arabia , but there are many

18:43

other Giga projects happening in Riyadh

18:46

and in Jeddah and

18:48

in other regions of Saudi

18:50

Arabia , for example , durea

18:52

, gait , qedaya and

18:55

many others . So

18:57

it's interesting and it's really

18:59

something

19:02

that sometimes I envy myself

19:04

for being in Saudi Arabia at

19:08

this period of time , because it's

19:10

really booming and it's

19:13

helpful for the construction

19:15

industry .

19:17

And thank you so much for that context . I

19:19

mean , just think about these projects . Each

19:21

of them are larger than the size of 50 different

19:23

countries is amazing and

19:25

credible . And I'm

19:28

curious your

19:31

goal at WSP is to combine digital

19:33

twins with the concept of the metaverse and

19:36

prepare for modular construction . So just to combine the

19:38

scale of these projects , you're

19:41

looking at creating a digital twin of

19:43

26,000 kilometers squared . Is

19:47

that accurate ? And I imagine there's a tremendous amount of

19:50

complexities with that . Can

19:52

you speak a little bit to just the collaboration of

19:55

all the different stakeholders and

19:57

how you're even looking at the digital twin

19:59

or

20:01

even at the process of executing

20:04

on that work ?

20:05

Yeah . So firstly , let me

20:07

explain that WSP is only

20:09

one consultant

20:12

out of tens

20:14

of consultants working on these projects

20:16

. So almost all

20:18

the international and national

20:21

organizations that's

20:24

related to construction are contributing

20:26

to these projects , and this is one of also

20:28

the good things about

20:31

these projects it's gathering

20:33

experience from all over the world

20:35

to deliver these projects . However

20:38

, as I mentioned

20:40

earlier , there are some challenges

20:42

and , from my point of view

20:44

, my

20:46

main priority

20:49

when I'm involved in any of

20:51

the largest projects here is

20:54

to develop a

20:56

trusted source of truth

20:59

. So what we

21:01

like when

21:03

it comes to this size

21:05

of projects is to ensure that

21:08

the information that we have is

21:10

correct , and

21:12

this can't be done

21:15

without the involvement of

21:17

technology and information

21:21

management techniques . So

21:24

, due to the nature

21:26

of having all of these stakeholders

21:29

working at the same location , sometimes

21:31

it's very hard to unify all

21:33

the methods of delivery , to

21:35

unify all the

21:38

standards , methods , procedures

21:41

for all of these stakeholders and

21:43

enforce it at one time . So

21:45

you need to balance between enforcing

21:49

the thing , the

21:52

must things

21:55

, or let's say , enforcing

21:58

the things that must

22:00

be done , but also

22:02

having the flexibility to absorb

22:04

other solutions and other methodologies

22:07

, and to

22:09

do so instead of having

22:11

a single common data environment

22:13

. You need to have an ecosystem for

22:16

common data environments

22:18

. So you have several platforms

22:20

and you need to build an ecosystem that can

22:22

integrate various

22:25

platforms . Very software , because

22:27

, for example , if you go to

22:29

an architect that's

22:32

specialized in organic

22:36

designs and enforce him to

22:38

use Rivet , for example , and leave Rhino

22:41

or any other solution , sometimes you

22:43

are taking out the tools from

22:45

him . So you need to enable him but

22:48

do your work in ensuring

22:50

that whatever the solution he will use

22:52

will be integrated in your ecosystem

22:54

. So one of the priorities

22:57

for this project is to have this trusted

22:59

source of truth , and

23:02

it can't be trusted unless

23:04

it's well defined and well

23:06

developed and

23:10

well managed . Also , this

23:13

will immediately

23:16

develop

23:18

a better way for data-driven

23:20

decisions . When you are dealing with

23:23

these kind of projects , you

23:25

need to take decisions and

23:27

to be able to take these decisions you need

23:29

to have the data always available

23:32

. So if you need

23:34

quantities

23:36

for a specific project , you

23:39

can't just check

23:41

the BIM model and then you find that you

23:44

have some duplicates inside the BIM

23:46

model , for example . So the quality

23:48

control process

23:50

for such digital models

23:52

that will be and are

23:55

being developed for these projects need

23:57

to be on a very high

23:59

level to ensure proper

24:01

decision-making

24:03

process . Another

24:05

challenge that's facing

24:08

large

24:10

projects is

24:13

the

24:15

various perspectives of the stakeholders

24:17

involved with it , even sometimes

24:20

in the same organization . So even

24:22

when you are dealing with a

24:25

client , for example , sometimes we'll find

24:27

the construction director

24:29

have different priorities than the

24:32

digital lead , for example . So even

24:34

if you have a

24:36

well-established information requirements

24:38

, if you don't have an alignment

24:40

across the teams about what

24:42

are our digital goals , sometimes

24:45

you will have different

24:49

. These different perspectives will result in

24:51

bad

24:54

delivery or lead delivery of information

24:57

or even delivery

24:59

of information , but then it's not being

25:01

used . So this kind of balance between

25:04

the various perspectives

25:06

of the various stakeholders and

25:08

various teams in these projects sometimes

25:11

is a great challenge

25:13

.

25:14

Yeah , thank you so much for sharing that . It sounds like

25:16

these challenges can be faced by

25:19

teams of small sizes and teams of very , very

25:21

large sizes , so

25:24

I'm glad that we're all not alone in those

25:26

challenges . I'm curious can

25:29

you share an initiative that you're particularly

25:31

proud of , given all of your national

25:34

and international work , and how

25:36

you see those

25:38

types of initiatives positively influencing the future

25:40

of digital construction ?

25:43

I think

25:46

the latest one I've

25:49

been involved in is being

25:52

NIMA Ambassador . Nima

25:55

is a great organization that's

25:57

involved in the

26:00

writing of the International

26:04

BEMS Standards

26:06

ISO 9650 , and

26:08

also an organization

26:10

that develops information management

26:14

guidelines , like UK BEM

26:16

Framework . So being part of this

26:18

organization is a

26:20

great honor for me and I'm

26:23

very proud of this . Being an ambassador

26:25

for NIMA will help me to support

26:33

the use of these standards

26:35

and the implementation of these standards

26:37

in the Middle East in

26:40

a more proactive way . And

26:43

another initiative

26:46

that I'm very proud of is being

26:49

the lead of a glossary

26:52

called Digitalization and Data

26:54

Glossary . This one was part

26:56

of CAN BEM

26:58

organization , which is now

27:00

called Building Transformation they

27:03

shifted their name but this glossary

27:05

is more about collecting

27:07

the various terminology

27:10

used in the

27:12

data and digitalization space

27:14

and try to find the

27:17

best definition

27:19

that can help all of us to speak

27:21

the same language . Why

27:24

I'm proud of it is not

27:26

about the results we obtained but

27:29

about the discussions that I

27:31

was involved in while gathering

27:34

this glossary . I

27:36

was in

27:38

discussions with various experts

27:41

from various industries

27:43

that are part of

27:45

the larger architectural

27:47

, engineering , construction and operation

27:50

industry , and it was amazing

27:52

to see the same world , how

27:54

it can have different perspectives from

27:56

various people based

27:59

on their profession , and

28:01

then agreeing on the

28:03

best way to describe things , not

28:06

only in the context of today

28:08

, but also in the context of how

28:10

we want to use

28:12

these terminology

28:15

in the future . So , for example , when

28:18

we were discussing how to define

28:20

an As-Built model , that

28:23

was great because we

28:25

realized that today , as-built

28:28

model is just modeling

28:31

off the red mark drawings

28:33

that's gathered from side , based on traditional

28:36

surveys . But what we want as built

28:38

models to be is the day-to-day

28:42

update of what's model

28:45

or sorry

29:02

or what's built on site , so

29:05

to have all that change

29:07

captured immediately inside the pen

29:09

models , day by day . So this

29:12

kind of conversations added a lot

29:14

to me . That's why I'm really

29:16

proud of this initiative .

29:18

Oh , thank you so much for

29:20

sharing . Yeah , I can't imagine the complexity

29:22

of the challenges you're trying to solve

29:25

. I mean , as you mentioned , just the definition of the as-built

29:27

model and immediately capturing changes

29:29

day to day in the model and the

29:31

technology that's required , just to you know , just to

29:33

be able to deliver on that

29:35

. Shifting over to sustainability

29:38

, I'm curious about how

29:41

you've applied sustainability , how sustainability

29:43

is considered in these , in these mega projects , and

29:46

what are the obstacles that you often

29:48

face when , when , having sustainability

29:50

in mind and combining that with these very large

29:52

initiatives .

29:54

Yeah , from my perspective , one

29:57

of the main challenges

30:00

to achieve sustainability in these projects

30:03

is waste

30:05

and how to control it and how to

30:07

ensure it's minimized

30:11

as possible . So , for

30:14

example , if we think about the waste

30:16

of reinforcement

30:19

rebars and if you , if

30:22

you allowed every contractor

30:24

to cut their reinforcement

30:27

based on their scope and

30:29

just deliver it the

30:31

way they want , you will find a

30:33

huge amount of waste looking into

30:35

the amount of construction

30:38

in such projects . But in

30:41

these projects , you need to try

30:44

as possible to unify the

30:46

way all of these contractors

30:49

work , and I was aware

30:51

of some initiatives and slightly

30:53

involved in an initiative on

30:55

one of specific one of these projects

30:58

, trying to manage

31:01

the reinforcement

31:03

fabrication for the whole projects

31:06

and ensure that there is specific

31:09

process followed by every single

31:11

contractor

31:13

involved in the project . So imagine

31:15

this being applied

31:18

also on all the other material

31:20

and all other elements of

31:22

construction . And when

31:25

I speak about this topic , the

31:27

main thing

31:29

that come in my mind is a

31:32

publication called

31:34

Apollo protocol . It's it's

31:36

published through a

31:39

forum called Apollo protocol

31:41

forum . So the Apollo protocol

31:43

is trying to find the link between the

31:45

manufacturing industry

31:47

and the construction industry

31:49

, trying to feed the

31:52

manufacturers

31:54

by the

31:56

sufficient data from

31:59

construction . So if , for

32:01

example , manufacturers are aware of

32:03

the needs

32:06

for a specific project , they

32:08

will be able to to provide

32:10

based on these needs , instead of

32:12

having a gap

32:14

between both worlds . So this

32:16

kind of initiative can

32:18

help in reducing the

32:20

waste in in tremendous

32:24

way , because imagine

32:26

that me , as a

32:30

contractor , are aware of all

32:32

the projects and all of these projects on the same

32:34

way are built in

32:36

a way that can fit the

32:39

needs of my construction . So it builds

32:41

this kind of glue

32:46

to fill the gaps between the

32:48

construction industry and the

32:51

manufacturing very

32:54

cool and thanks for acknowledging the Apollo

32:56

protocol forum .

32:59

I'm excited to look into that . I'd

33:02

like to merge together a few different topics

33:04

here and kind of bring together the , the

33:07

, everything we've discussed about today , just the

33:09

, the challenges that you're facing , a level of scale

33:12

at which you're , which you're trying to solve some of these

33:14

problems . If we

33:16

look into some of the technological

33:18

and digital and and managerial solutions

33:21

that you've you've had to

33:23

employ in order to manage such

33:25

that these large-scale projects , we

33:28

just love to hear some , you know , some tangible

33:30

thoughts on , on on tools

33:32

or or processes that

33:36

have led to success for you , especially

33:38

when we're looking at , you know , such mega , mega

33:40

projects yeah

33:43

, it's um , what

33:45

I can think of is

33:47

reality capture .

33:50

It helped a lot in actually

33:53

capturing the , the

33:56

as-built and the existing

33:58

condition without the need to have huge

34:01

teams for off-server , and

34:04

also it provides more accurate data

34:06

and more usable data . So capturing

34:09

uh , reality , including

34:11

all the technologies

34:14

that that lies beneath it , including laser

34:16

scanning drones all of

34:18

these technologies help it a lot in

34:21

better capturing of information

34:23

. We even utilize these

34:26

technologies to calculate

34:28

the cut-and-fill

34:31

for a massive earthwork

34:33

projects , specifically

34:36

Kings and man Park . We

34:38

are contributing to it . It has huge

34:40

cut-and-fill areas and volumes

34:43

and we are using drones

34:45

to survey this and

34:47

calculate the data

34:49

day by day or week by week directly

34:53

from the platform that we are using . It

34:57

can also help or it's

35:00

helping us actually in delivering

35:03

better B-models , because in

35:05

these kind of projects

35:07

you can't go

35:10

and model everything

35:12

in them because , due

35:15

to these large areas , you

35:17

will have huge

35:19

project sizes in

35:22

Revit , for example , or in whatever

35:24

BIM solution you are using . So

35:27

sometimes we have

35:29

integrated delivery

35:31

that integrate the

35:34

models and also

35:36

the laser scans

35:39

and also some GIS layers

35:41

. So these kind of integrations help

35:44

us a lot in delivering more

35:47

efficient digital deliverables .

35:51

Fantastic . Thank you , mustafa . And

35:53

the final question of the future construct

35:55

podcast and a tradition of our show . If

35:58

you could project yourself out 25 years

36:00

and wanted to have any device or

36:02

technology that would benefit you personally

36:04

, what would it be and what would it do ?

36:08

In 25 years , I always imagined

36:11

myself sitting with

36:14

my kids or the kids of my kids

36:16

, playing with

36:18

them and to

36:21

help myself . After 25

36:24

years , I think it will be something

36:26

related to health . So if

36:29

it's some device

36:31

that can enable me to play

36:34

football with sons of my

36:36

sons , or some

36:40

metaverse solutions

36:42

that can help me do

36:44

same activities with them , I think that

36:46

will be the technologies that

36:48

I need at that time .

36:51

I love that . That's fantastic . How touching as

36:53

well , and I hope to see that for you

36:55

as well . So I appreciate

36:57

your time today . I feel like there's so much I can

36:59

learn from you and so much the industry can learn from you

37:01

. Thank you for all of your contributions , sir .

37:03

Thanks a lot , mark . It was a pleasure being here

37:06

with you . Thank you .

37:08

Yes , absolutely .