0:04

Welcome to Future Hindsight, a podcast that

0:06

takes big ideas about civic life and

0:09

democracy and turns them into action items

0:11

for you and me. I'm

0:13

Mila Atmos. It's

0:24

2024 and the future of America

0:26

is in your hands. Democracy

0:29

is not a spectator sport, so

0:31

we're here to bring you an

0:34

independent perspective about the election this

0:36

year and empower you to change

0:38

the status quo. As

0:40

a pro-democracy podcast, we're always interested in

0:43

election reform that makes it easier for

0:45

the voices of all Americans to be

0:47

heard at the ballot box, whether that's

0:50

automatic voter registration, open

0:52

primaries, ending gerrymandering,

0:55

or ranked choice voting. Today

0:58

we're revisiting ranked choice voting, how it

1:00

works, and how it is expected to

1:02

play out this year. Our

1:04

guest is Deb Otis. She's

1:06

the director of research and

1:08

policy at FairVote, a nonpartisan

1:11

organization that researches and advances

1:13

voting reforms that make democracy

1:15

more functional and representative for

1:18

every American. With

1:20

a decade of experience in research

1:22

and analytics, Deb is passionate

1:24

about sharing the data-driven case

1:26

for why our country needs

1:28

election reform. Welcome Deb, and

1:30

thank you for joining us. Hi, thanks so

1:32

much for having me. I

1:35

mentioned in the intro that we've had a

1:37

conversation about ranked choice voting before. We

1:40

spoke to Nathan Lockwood at Rank the Vote, but

1:42

for those who are new to this concept, let's

1:44

do a quick refresher. How does

1:46

RCV work, and help us make the case for

1:49

it. Sure, ranked

1:51

choice voting just means voters get to rank

1:53

the candidates on the ballot in order of

1:56

preference. So when you go to vote,

1:58

instead of choosing just one, you get to rank

2:00

your first choice. And then if you have a

2:02

backup choice, you can pick a second choice and

2:04

a third choice and so on for as many

2:06

candidates as you like and want to rank. This

2:09

gives voters more power and,

2:12

crucially, it promotes majority winners.

2:15

The way votes are counted is if

2:17

somebody gets more than 50% of first

2:19

choice votes, that's round one, just first

2:21

choices. If they get more than

2:23

50%, they win. The election's over. If

2:26

nobody gets 50% and that happens a

2:28

lot in elections with crowded fields. If you've

2:30

got three or more candidates, this is common.

2:33

Nobody has 50% or more among

2:35

first choices, so it's not clear who that

2:37

real consensus winner is. That's when the ranked

2:39

choice voting really comes into play. You

2:42

would eliminate the last place candidate, do

2:44

what's called an instant runoff. Every

2:47

voter who had ranked that eliminated candidate

2:49

as their first choice, their

2:51

ballot counts for their second choice instead. So

2:53

it's like if your top choice didn't make

2:55

the final round of the runoff election, you

2:57

still get to express a preference between the

2:59

finalists who were left in the race. You

3:02

do rounds like that until somebody has more than

3:04

half the votes, and that is the consensus winner

3:06

that's going to better represent the voters. Right.

3:09

Thanks for the refresher. So more

3:11

and more districts have adopted ranked choice voting since we

3:14

spoke about it on the show in the spring of

3:16

2022. And at the time, I had

3:19

just participated in the ranked choice mayoral election

3:22

in New York City. And

3:24

I think most people were honestly

3:26

confused about how their vote worked

3:29

because there were people who did

3:31

not rank the person who ended

3:33

up winning. And so I

3:35

think people were still frustrated that I think

3:37

that may also be a function

3:40

of the fact that the New York

3:42

Democratic primary was so crowded. But now

3:44

that it is more common across

3:47

the country, what has been

3:49

the impact of ranked choice voting on

3:51

the voter experience? I

3:54

would highlight a couple of ways that

3:57

this is impacting voters. Number one, voters

3:59

who have used ranked choice voting

4:01

overwhelmingly report in exit surveys that they

4:03

like it, they understand it, and they

4:05

want to keep it. They prefer it

4:07

to their prior method of voting. And

4:09

so it can sound

4:12

foreign to someone who's hearing

4:14

about it for the first time, but once a voter

4:16

has gone to the voting booth, looked at that ranked

4:18

ballot and said, oh, this is simple. Once folks have

4:20

voted that way and seen it in practice, they want

4:22

to keep it. Another aspect I'll

4:24

highlight is the people who

4:26

win under ranked choice voting have a

4:29

broader base of support from the voters.

4:31

I'll use an example from New York

4:34

to contrast here. New York

4:36

had a primary election for one of the

4:38

congressional districts, for the 10th congressional

4:40

district in 2022, and the

4:42

winner won with 25% support.

4:44

That was within the party primary, only advancing

4:46

to the general election with only a quarter

4:49

of the support, even from within their own

4:51

party. Now contrast that with

4:53

New York City, where their municipal elections

4:55

use ranked choice voting, as you know,

4:57

that doesn't happen in New York City.

5:00

If you get a crowded field, nobody

5:02

gets that majority win. You

5:04

don't know who the consensus candidate is. That's

5:07

when the second choice has come into play.

5:09

And that's when you really elevate candidates who

5:11

had appeal as a backup choice, candidates who

5:13

can reach beyond their base and who voters

5:15

can connect with. Say, oh, well, maybe they're

5:18

not my first choice, but we have some

5:20

common ground. They can be my second or

5:22

my third choice. So we see voters

5:25

getting a candidate who they ranked on their ballot

5:27

more often than not. 70% of voters get

5:30

the election of one of their top

5:32

three choices. And so that's more engagement

5:34

with the process and with the winners

5:36

than you get in choose one elections.

5:39

Mm-hmm. So what has been

5:42

the impact on election outcomes? I

5:44

mean, you talked just now about

5:46

some people essentially having a broader

5:48

base, but do you think it

5:50

actually improves the relationship between those

5:52

who are elected and the constituents?

5:57

I do. I think this campaigning for

5:59

backup choices. is crucial. Candidates

6:01

know that you

6:03

need more than just 20% of the voters in order

6:06

to win, and so you have to

6:08

reach out to those voters. You have

6:11

to build bridges. One of my favorite

6:13

stories from working in this movement comes

6:15

from candidates who have campaigned. They go

6:17

door to door, and candidates are used

6:19

to maybe having a software or

6:22

a list of which houses are your likely

6:24

voters, and so you should go knock on

6:26

those doors and turn out just those voters.

6:29

And then candidates in ranked choice

6:31

elections say, even if I see a

6:33

house with a yard sign for my opponent, I

6:36

still go knock on that door. I engage

6:38

with that voter. I say, hey, it looks

6:40

like you're already supporting so-and-so, but I think

6:42

we've got common ground on these couple of

6:44

issues. Let's have a conversation, and I'd like

6:46

to ask you to rank me second. We

6:49

see examples of candidates doing that

6:51

in places like Alaska, New York,

6:54

Minnesota, and I think that extra

6:56

connection with voters really matters. One

6:59

city councilor in San Francisco spoke

7:01

about this effect when she won

7:03

for the first time. She said, the way

7:06

that I had to campaign under ranked choice

7:08

voting means that I had the ear of

7:10

more different constituencies, and more of them have

7:12

my ear, and it's affecting the way I

7:14

govern now that I'm in office. Excellent.

7:17

So this might be not

7:19

obvious, but have there been

7:21

unexpected outcomes like upsets? Yes.

7:24

You know, any election sometimes ends up

7:27

with a vote splitting. This

7:29

can happen if, you know, two similar candidates

7:31

who maybe appeal to the same base, if

7:33

they both run, it can prevent one of

7:35

them from winning. That happens in choose one

7:38

elections. But if you're in a ranked choice

7:40

election, we eliminate that

7:42

vote splitting, which sometimes means maybe

7:45

you'd get two candidates who are similar

7:47

to each other. Among first choices, they

7:49

finish second and third because they split

7:51

up their base of support. But

7:53

once one of them gets eliminated, the

7:56

voters for that candidate probably transferred to

7:58

the other candidate who was similar. It

10:00

becomes a form of proportional representation.

10:03

So different groups are likely to be

10:05

represented in proportion to their share of

10:07

the votes. And so this

10:09

can be great for ensuring that the

10:11

majority faction still wins the majority of

10:13

seats, but you also get a fair

10:15

number of seats for any minority factions

10:17

in the population. This can be, you

10:19

know, a political minority, a certain issue

10:21

coalition that maybe only controls 30% of

10:23

the vote, or this can be groups

10:25

of different racial or ethnic backgrounds. There

10:28

should be space at the table for all of

10:30

these different groups, all of these different factions, and

10:33

multi-winner ranked choice voting leads to proportional

10:35

outcomes. So that to me is the

10:37

gold standard. But that is not quite

10:40

as common in the US as the

10:42

typical single-winner one that we started talking

10:44

about. You know, I would highlight New

10:46

York City is using it just for

10:48

primaries. That's happening in Arlington, Virginia

10:50

as well, where they've used it for Democratic

10:53

primaries. And that happens with

10:55

the Virginia Republican Party, where they use

10:57

ranked choice voting only within party primaries

10:59

in order to choose a strong nominee.

11:02

So I think that model is really interesting. Parties

11:05

want to be able to put their best

11:07

foot forward. They want to nominate a strong

11:09

candidate. And so if you use ranked choice

11:11

voting in your party primary, you're more likely

11:13

to get a candidate who can really bring

11:15

the party together and go on

11:18

to succeed in November. So

11:20

what about the places that have general

11:23

election ranked choice voting? Because there, I

11:25

think it's very interesting you could have,

11:27

let's say, maybe all four

11:29

from the same party or three out of four

11:32

from the same party. And

11:34

does that render better outcomes? Because I'm

11:36

thinking also about minority rule

11:38

and how sometimes that gets elected. I

11:41

don't want to say by mistake, by design,

11:43

obviously. But does ranked choice voting also

11:46

address that problem? Yes,

11:49

ranked choice voting does a much better

11:51

job of preserving the will of the

11:53

majority of voters here. You're

11:55

less likely to end up with minority

11:57

rule because the majority is not going

11:59

to nominate two candidates who then split

12:01

the vote accidentally. I think

12:04

Alaska is a good example of the

12:06

phenomenon that you're speaking about. They advance

12:09

four candidates into the general election and

12:11

then use ranked choice voting among those

12:13

four. And so they did it for

12:15

the first time in 2022. And

12:18

we saw outcomes that truly reflect

12:20

what Alaskans in each district and

12:23

statewide really wanted. And

12:25

we saw some examples across the board for the

12:28

US Senate. They reelected Lisa Murkowski, who's

12:30

considered a moderate Republican for US House.

12:33

They elected Mary Peltola, who's considered a

12:35

moderate Democrat. And then for governor, they

12:37

reelected Governor Dunley, who is considered one

12:40

of the most conservative Republican governors in

12:42

the country. And so voters

12:44

choosing those outcomes, all with the same

12:46

system, of course, really reflects

12:49

Alaskans' independent streak. The

12:52

thing those candidates all have in common,

12:54

they campaigned on issues that were important

12:56

to Alaskans. They didn't dive too deep

12:58

into the national partisan fray. They focused

13:00

on Alaskan issues. And

13:02

they were willing to campaign to a broad

13:04

base of voters, not just one niche base.

13:08

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's very important that

13:10

you really talk about the issues

13:12

that affect your constituents. We're

13:16

taking a short break to share about a

13:19

podcast called Burn the Boats, where it's actually

13:21

appeared as a guest. And

13:23

we'll be back with Deb Otis in a moment. I'm

13:27

Ken Harbaugh, host of Burn the

13:29

Boats from Evergreen Podcasts. I interview

13:32

political leaders and influencers, folks like

13:34

award-winning journalist Soledad O'Brien and conservative

13:36

columnist Bill Kristof about the choices

13:38

they can make. Failure is not

13:40

an option. I won't agree with

13:42

everyone I talk to, but I

13:44

respect anyone who believes in something

13:46

enough to risk everything for it,

13:49

because history belongs to those willing

13:51

to burn the boats. Episodes

13:53

are out every other week, wherever you

13:55

get your podcasts. And

13:59

now... Let's return to my conversation with

14:01

Deb Otis. So

14:05

this year, 2024, we know that

14:07

the election coverage will be dominated

14:09

by the presidential race and

14:12

the Iowa caucuses are just around the corner

14:14

now. How are you and the

14:16

movement thinking about ranked choice voting this year

14:18

in 24, aside from, let's say,

14:20

Oregon? Do you have a specific focus?

14:24

Well, the presidential race is really making

14:26

our case for us. Consider the discussions

14:28

about possible third party or independent candidates

14:30

entering the general election. You know, we

14:32

hear a lot about this no labels

14:35

party, possibly groups like the forward party

14:37

or other independent candidates who might want

14:39

to run. And all of a sudden

14:41

people start throwing the spoiler word around.

14:44

Some folks pressure the candidates not to run,

14:46

saying that you might split the vote and

14:48

help the other side. Some people will

14:50

pressure their friends and neighbors, hey, don't waste

14:53

your vote, which is really misguided. Candidates

14:55

who want to run want

14:57

to have a platform. They want to have

14:59

their issues out there and voters should feel

15:01

free to vote for the candidates they like best.

15:03

And now that's going to happen in Maine,

15:05

for example, where they use ranked choice voting.

15:07

People will be able to rank the presidential candidates.

15:10

And so Maine's electoral college votes are going to

15:12

be based on the ranked choice voting. In other

15:15

states, especially swing states, voters

15:18

are going to have to be strategists. Voters will

15:20

go into the voting booth doing the math.

15:22

How can I vote my conscience and make

15:25

my vote as impactful as possible without hurting

15:27

my own side? Oh,

15:30

thanks for putting it this way. This makes it very

15:32

clear. So I guess at the end

15:34

of the year, we'll see whether Maine will

15:36

make the case for the rest of the

15:39

country to use ranked choice voting also for

15:41

presidential elections. By the end

15:43

of the year, I think we could double

15:45

the number of states that use it. We've

15:47

got at least two states that will be

15:49

running ranked choice voting ballot measures in fall

15:51

of this year, possibly up

15:53

to three more states, so potentially up

15:55

to five. But definitely we'll see statewide

15:58

ballot measures from Oregon and Nevada. and

16:00

so they could join Maine and Alaska and double

16:02

the number of states. Oh,

16:04

that's amazing. So what's your strategy

16:06

to put ranked choice voting on

16:09

the ballot that people can vote

16:11

on or introduce it in

16:13

state houses and state legislators, let's

16:15

say, where there is not an option to

16:17

put it on a ballot? What's your strategy

16:20

to make it become standard across the country?

16:22

How do we pass it? There

16:24

are a couple of different paths to achieve this.

16:27

And I will flag this is a reform, changing

16:29

the status quo can be hard. And

16:31

so at times it can feel like you're

16:33

fighting an uphill battle here. But it gives

16:35

me hope to see the growth in this

16:37

movement. Several years ago, it

16:39

tended to be smaller groups trying to

16:41

pass it by ballot measure. Now we

16:43

have a lot of support from elected

16:46

officials. And so the state legislative victory

16:48

is a viable path now. In

16:50

2023, there were twice as

16:52

many pro ranked choice bills in

16:55

state legislatures, in the prior year.

16:58

This year in 2024, we're expecting that trend

17:00

to continue as elected officials

17:02

start to see that this can

17:04

actually make their job easier. This

17:06

can improve their relationship with constituents.

17:09

And this can allow them to get things

17:11

done without being punished for say, crossing the

17:13

aisle or making a compromise as long as

17:15

they are following the will of the voters

17:17

and maintain the voter support. So

17:20

how many states are you in now? And I know

17:22

that there are some places where it's

17:24

in some parts of the state, but not in all

17:27

parts of the state. There are

17:29

active movements in more than 30 states.

17:31

I would say about 20 of those

17:33

are really big, solid groups that are

17:35

making a lot of progress. And it's

17:38

a variety of groups in states that

17:40

are trying to get this on the

17:42

ballot where voters can vote for it,

17:44

like in Nevada, and states

17:46

where the activists are pursuing the

17:49

legislative path, like Fair Vote Minnesota

17:51

recently worked closely with the legislature

17:53

to pass a bill there in

17:56

the 2023 session to create a study committee to

17:58

Expand ranked choice voting around the state. Eight because

18:00

they have five cities in that state that

18:02

already use ranked choice voting And the voters?

18:04

they're really like. Moon. So

18:07

I want to pivot here a

18:09

little bit because fair vote is

18:11

not only about rent for voting,

18:13

you're also advancing the Fair Representation

18:15

act in Congress. that is actually

18:17

quite bc because it has multiple

18:19

components including ranked choice voting. But

18:22

tell us. More about This bill.

18:25

A Fair Representation acts as a

18:27

bill that would implement ranked choice

18:29

voting for Congress but also changed

18:31

the way we do our districts.

18:33

So right now we elect our

18:36

Congress from four hundred and thirty

18:38

five district that each elect one

18:40

person. And. Now these districts has

18:42

some problems. It feels like we just

18:44

finished a congressional redistricting cycle. We just

18:46

finished the gerrymandering. More is that the

18:48

decades? But. There is news

18:50

at a New York in December Twenty

18:52

three. They have to redraw their congressional

18:54

map. The same thing just happened in

18:56

North Carolina a few months earlier. Good

19:00

redistricting more than never, and it'll last

19:02

for the full decade until we start

19:04

again. Am In a lot of these

19:06

districts, they're drawn so that they are

19:08

fully safe for one party. Ninety.

19:10

Percent of congressional seats can be called two

19:12

years before the election. Two years before you

19:14

even know who's gonna be on the ballot.

19:16

You know which party is gonna hold that

19:19

seats. This leaves a lot of voters feeling

19:21

like our vote doesn't matter, because in other

19:23

districts, it doesn't. As we got the ten

19:25

percent of us and swing districts where it

19:27

matters and the ninety percent of us who

19:30

aren't and where it's a foregone conclusion. Soap.

19:32

Or current made four hundred and thirty

19:35

five people from gerrymandered districts is not

19:37

working well. The. Fair Representation Act

19:39

would make the district bigger and

19:41

make them he multiple people. So

19:44

I'll use Massachusetts as an example.

19:46

They have nine congress people right

19:48

now and from nine districts we

19:50

propose they should have three districts

19:52

have three members each. So that's

19:54

a lot like what I talked.

19:56

About from Portland, Oregon earlier. So.

19:58

They would maybe have an Eastern. Is it

20:00

a central Massachusetts In a Western

20:03

Massachusetts district with any to those

20:05

districts elect's three people proportionally to

20:07

the share of the vote that

20:09

they get? Well it would help

20:11

create a place for New England

20:13

republicans who are currently pretty under

20:15

represented as would create a home

20:17

for democrats from Oklahoma who are

20:19

currently locked out a representation. And

20:21

this would create more space for

20:23

independent and third party candidates as

20:25

well. Most voters would be represented

20:27

by. Congress. People of

20:29

both parties. So. We would no longer

20:32

have folks in this scenario where you support

20:34

one party, but you're in a district that

20:36

safe for the other party and nobody will

20:38

take your call and you've got nobody looking

20:41

out for your issues as would solve that.

20:43

And so the voter experience is ranked choice

20:45

voting. You rank the candidates in order of

20:47

preference but your district to bigger and you're

20:50

gonna elect three, four, or five members depending

20:52

on which state you're in because not every

20:54

state's number of districts as is divisible by

20:56

by nice even numbers. Right?

20:58

right? Well thanks for explaining at the say. This

21:00

makes it really clear that. You know

21:03

you can end up like you

21:05

said, getting represented by somebody in

21:07

your district. Which might be

21:09

otherwise safe for the opposing

21:11

party. Let's say, And this

21:13

makes it possible to circumvent that's as good

21:15

of a a really neat solution I would

21:18

say. Work. The progress

21:20

of making on this bill because

21:22

I know it has been introduced

21:24

several times without passing and more

21:26

broadly what kind of opposition are

21:28

is facing and passing. These.

21:31

Kinds of election reform. The.

21:34

fair representation act we are expecting it

21:36

to be reintroduced again early this year

21:38

and support is growing because interest is

21:40

growing and this type of reform of

21:43

recent pew survey from late twenty twenty

21:45

three found that only four percent of

21:47

americans said that our government is working

21:49

very well are extremely well that means

21:51

and ninety six percent of people think

21:54

that there's a problem and are ready

21:56

to find solutions as a we've been

21:58

seeing support growing across the board for

22:00

this kind of transformative change, this

22:03

kind of multi-member district with proportional

22:05

representation, like the Fair Representation Act

22:07

would do. And

22:09

so Congress tends to be a lagging

22:11

indicator, I think, of popular support, but

22:13

we are seeing that pick up on

22:15

the Hill. I'm really excited for that.

22:18

You also asked about opposition. I

22:20

think changing the status quo can

22:22

be hard, and we tend to get opposition

22:24

from groups who are already in power. Groups

22:27

know how to run and win under the

22:29

current system, and those will be the least

22:31

likely to want to upend that and maybe

22:33

share their larger district with a member of

22:35

another party. This is the

22:37

kind of reform that's going to be good for

22:40

voters. It's going to be great for diversity and

22:42

helping our elected officials look more like the populace,

22:44

and that does challenge the status quo in some

22:47

ways. And so when we see opposition, it tends

22:49

to come from entrenched interests. I

22:51

spoke to somebody recently who thinks that ranked

22:54

choice voting basically demands that

22:56

they electorate is better informed, and

22:58

I'm just paraphrasing this person's argument

23:00

here. And I, of course,

23:03

firmly believe that every voter should be

23:05

well informed. But so this

23:07

person said, listen, it's hard

23:09

enough to get people to get out and

23:12

vote, to show up at the ballot

23:14

box, and then to demand that

23:16

they know more about the

23:18

larger field of candidates before

23:20

they get to the voting booth makes it

23:22

more complicated. What do you say to that?

23:25

Well, I think the founders did envision

23:27

an informed electorate as the basis of

23:30

this country's government system. I

23:32

don't think ranked choice voting requires you to

23:34

be more informed than our current politics. You

23:36

know, a lot of us go in having

23:38

some sense that, oh, I like either of

23:41

these two candidates. I really don't like either

23:43

of these two, and I'd be fine with

23:45

anyone in the middle. And

23:47

then it can be really hard to choose who

23:49

to vote for when those are your preferences. You

23:52

might say, well, I can't vote for my real favorite

23:54

because I need to stop so-and-so, who I think is

23:56

really bad. With ranked choice voting,

23:59

you just get to go in and vote. Don't you're honest

24:01

preferences without being punished for it? The

24:03

presidential primaries gonna make the case for

24:05

this. The Republican field this year is

24:08

crowded. It is false, and this reminds

24:10

me of the democratic field for years

24:12

ago and voters off the know a

24:14

lot about these candidates and as strong

24:17

preference is about them. but they were

24:19

really limited when we go to vote

24:21

and so. I. Think for voters,

24:24

you can always choose just one if you

24:26

only have a preference about just one or

24:28

if you only heard of just one. but

24:30

especially if we were to go to the

24:33

Fair Representation Act you would likely see on

24:35

your ballot multiple democrats and multiple republicans. and

24:37

it would mark on your ballot which party

24:40

they were from of course along with possibly

24:42

some independent third party candidates and you get

24:44

the choice. Oh you know, maybe I'm mad

24:46

and of a centrist? Maybe I support some

24:49

candidates of both parties. made on going across

24:51

party lines with my rankings. Are

24:53

you have the choice? Hey, I want to

24:55

rank all the Republicans first or want to

24:57

wake all the Democrats before I started dipping

24:59

into any other parties. And though I think

25:01

voters can certainly handle that kind of thing

25:03

and it would represent us better, motors around

25:05

the world vote this way. Voters in Australia

25:07

and Ireland have been using this system for

25:09

one hundred years now and they can do

25:11

at their politics are pretty stable. I think

25:13

we can do here to. Yeah.

25:16

I think that is maybe the most compelling argument

25:18

is that it would make. The politics more

25:20

stable biden in this country and

25:22

while he was answering this question,

25:24

I was thinking about the days

25:26

and people were urging John Kerry

25:28

and John Mccain to run together

25:30

on the same ticket by it

25:32

because people felt like they both.

25:35

Represented to a value that

25:37

Americans from all stripes could

25:39

a spouse. And since it's

25:41

a combined ticket, it would

25:43

eliminate sort of the spoiler

25:45

votes. And. Terms

25:48

of the spoiler abode

25:50

question for the. twenty

25:52

twenty four election do

25:54

saying that after this

25:57

election twenty four sad

25:59

it will make it

26:02

more possible for

26:05

the Fair Vote Act to be passed and

26:07

for ranked choice voting to be adopted nationwide

26:09

for the presidential election? Dr.

26:11

Jennifer Lixton Yes. I think every election

26:13

cycle helps make the case more and

26:15

more. I see us moving

26:17

towards wider adoption of ranked choice voting, not

26:19

inevitably, because there's a lot of work to

26:22

be done and we need to keep working

26:24

on this. But there's a reason we've seen

26:26

such strong growth for this reform, and I

26:28

project that that will continue. Every

26:30

single election, we see more places adopting

26:32

ranked choice voting, so we get more

26:34

evidence about how it works in practice.

26:36

And we can kind of put to

26:39

bed some of the fears about, will

26:41

this have unanticipated consequences? What will this really

26:43

do? Will this harm this group or that group?

26:45

And we can see that in practice, it

26:48

is working well, voters like it,

26:50

and it is electing representative candidates.

26:53

And so each set of new ranked choice elections

26:55

is making the case more and more for us,

26:57

and it's making it easier to get the next

26:59

set of wins. Danielle Pletka Right.

27:02

So, well, since you're saying it's making it easier,

27:05

what are two things that an everyday person

27:07

can do to advance ranked choice

27:10

voting wherever they live? Dr. Jennifer

27:12

Lixton Well, I'm from FairVote, and so

27:14

of course, I think you should go

27:16

to fairvoteaction.org. There's

27:18

a section called Get Involved, where you

27:20

can find a list of ways you

27:22

can get involved, from small activities locally

27:25

to big activities. So that's

27:27

one, fairvoteaction.org. And another way is get

27:29

involved in your local politics. It doesn't

27:31

necessarily have to be ranked choice voting,

27:33

although I think ranked choice is a

27:35

great way to get started, of course.

27:38

But you know, if you're a partisan,

27:40

consider looking into, you know, your local

27:42

Republican or Democratic city committee, where

27:44

you can get involved in politics at

27:46

the hyperlocal level. You'll meet people who

27:49

have similar interests, and you'll get really

27:51

engaged, and it will likely help you

27:53

start working on other advocacy campaigns, too.

27:56

I got my start volunteering on a

27:58

local ranked choice voting campaign. Until

32:00

next time, stay engaged.