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1:29

Lauren. Make do you remember

1:31

when twitter was actually really good?

1:34

I do. Yeah, I remember when

1:36

it was mundane and funny and

1:38

actually I appreciated it when it

1:40

changed and were when it became

1:42

a bigger platform for change. Member

1:44

those days feels like ten years ago. To

1:47

have that is about right? Oh yeah, you're

1:50

right. Yeah, lott was going on twitter about

1:52

ten years ago and any it was even so

1:54

good I would say two years ago? Sure. Yeah.

1:56

well you know what we can relive that

1:58

feeling of community in powerful change, at

2:00

least just a little bit, because there's

2:02

a new documentary series out about Black

2:05

Twitter, the social media community that showed

2:07

us all what the power of the

2:09

crowd can do. Yeah, I remember very

2:11

well, our own Jason Parham

2:13

cover story for Wired about

2:15

Black Twitter, it is great.

2:17

Uh, this new docuseries we're about to talk

2:19

about is great. So let's get into

2:22

it. Let's do it. Hi,

2:30

everyone. Welcome to Gadget Lab. I am

2:32

Michael Kalori, Wired's director of consumer tech

2:34

and culture. And I'm Lauren Goode. I'm

2:36

a senior writer at Wired. Today,

2:38

we have a very special show for

2:40

you. We are here with the filmmakers

2:42

behind the new documentary series, Black Twitter,

2:44

A People's History. The show premieres

2:47

May 9th on Hulu. The

2:49

three-part documentary series traces the history of

2:51

the Black community on Twitter, which started

2:53

as sort of a loose hangout in

2:56

the early years of the platform and

2:58

gradually grew into a massive cultural force

3:00

that directed conversations about race and culture,

3:02

not only on social media, but

3:05

in our society at large. The Hulu

3:07

series is based on a cover story by

3:10

Wired's own senior writer, Jason Parham, who's

3:12

here today. Jason also produced the show

3:14

and appears on camera on the show,

3:16

looking sharp as always. Welcome back to

3:19

the pod, Jason. Mike, thank

3:21

you. Good to see you. Yeah. Good to

3:23

have you back. We're also joined this

3:25

week by the series executive producer, Joey

3:28

Jacobi, as well as series executive producer

3:30

and the director of all three episodes,

3:32

Prentice Penny. Welcome to you both. Thank

3:35

you. Thanks. Glad to be here. We're

3:37

so excited to have you guys in the lab, as we

3:39

like to say. Glad

3:43

to be here. So I want to start off

3:45

with a question for you, Prentice, because you mentioned

3:47

in the documentary that you spent a few years

3:49

sort of dipping in and out of Twitter and

3:51

hanging out on there. But the thing that really

3:53

sucked you in was the experience that you had

3:55

interacting with fans of the show, Insecure, which you

3:57

had a hand in writing and directing. So.

4:00

I'd like to ask you to recount that

4:02

experience because I think the way you tell

4:04

it, it's really exemplary of the special power

4:06

of the community. Yeah. I mean,

4:08

when we were first coming on,

4:10

it was a different time in

4:12

television, obviously, certainly. There

4:15

weren't many shows of color. I

4:18

think Atlanta had come on right before, like a

4:20

month before us, and then we came on after

4:22

that. So really, it started from just

4:24

getting people to want to watch the show, right? Come

4:27

tune in, come watch this. And then obviously,

4:29

people have, as Black Twitter and Black culture does,

4:31

lots of opinions on what the show should be

4:33

or not be or who Issa should be dating.

4:36

And at first, you're just sort of

4:38

live tweeting, like, oh, when we

4:41

were filming, this happened, that happened. And

4:43

then as Jason and Joey know,

4:45

sometimes people with those shade, and

4:48

I would try to want to let it go. And

4:51

then I was just like, nah, I'm not going to let this

4:53

go. I'm going to respond. I'm going to be, I'm a part

4:55

of Black Twitter. I can respond just as much as they do.

4:58

And what I found was like, people

5:00

loved it because it felt like you're just

5:03

talking to someone who's like you, right? Even

5:05

though I was helping make the show, it

5:07

was, and I found that

5:09

the more I engaged that way, the more they

5:11

actually backed off, but also was

5:13

like, I actually like this thing. And

5:16

it would just turn into fun conversations and

5:18

fun things. And so that's really what, and

5:20

I think people started to like that I

5:22

would respond that way because I didn't really

5:24

know too many showrunners that would engage in

5:26

fans and being like, man, shut up. You

5:28

know, things like that, you know, things you

5:30

want to do with your fan base, but

5:32

that fan base liked that participation, right? And

5:35

so that's really where I was like, and then

5:37

I got to watch them again, as I said,

5:39

in the doc, show up, promote, talk,

5:41

engage. And it would always feel like, oh, this was

5:43

going to be a fun, and I knew when people

5:45

started to be like, oh, I can't wait to tweet

5:47

with Prentice and I, that's when I knew it had

5:50

kind of gotten different. To

5:52

me, that's sort of where I fell in, I would participate

5:54

before, but this is where I felt like I fell in

5:56

love with Black Twitter. And we're going to like the

5:58

smoke. That's the thing like Prentice likes

6:00

to smoke. Like, I'm a lurker. I

6:02

like to watch see what's happening. I'm

6:04

not going to comment. I'm scared. But

6:07

Prentice is like, no, let's talk about

6:09

it. And it's just as

6:11

typical with the internet, when you

6:13

actually engage with people, they're a

6:15

lot nicer. They are. Than they

6:17

are when they're just commenting and trolling.

6:21

It's funny. We're going to talk about

6:23

the content of the docu-series. But one of the

6:25

things I just wanted to note is that I

6:27

love the pacing of it. It moves. It

6:30

can be hard, I think, to make a documentary

6:32

or a television show about a website and make

6:34

that compelling. And you totally accomplish this. And in

6:36

some ways, it feels a little bit like Twitter

6:38

itself because you include a lot of short bites

6:41

that can still be pretty powerful,

6:43

I think. Was that part of your

6:45

storytelling plan when you were making this?

6:48

Yeah, that was a big. I'm glad you noticed it. It was

6:50

a big thing. For us,

6:52

it was like, how do you make the docs feel

6:54

like black Twitter? How do you make the

6:56

doc feel fun, serious,

6:59

engaging, petty,

7:01

all those things? And so for

7:03

us, it's like, OK, what's the language of

7:05

that? So the language are means and gifts.

7:07

The language is you're talking about a subject

7:09

matter. And that avatar can shrink or scroll.

7:11

And you can scroll down and see a

7:13

bunch of quick things because we process things

7:15

so much faster now. And

7:17

so for me, it was like, how do you

7:19

keep the flow of that going? Oh, we'll start

7:22

on this tweet. Zoom into that. That'll take us

7:24

to an article. It'll take us to an interview.

7:26

And so we just really wanted the language to

7:28

feel similar, cinematically, to

7:31

the way that black Twitter feels as a

7:33

platform, as opposed to saying, watching a doc

7:35

almost objectively, where you're sort of, I'm watching

7:37

someone talk, and then I'm watching a B-roll

7:39

clip, and I'm watching that. It was like,

7:41

no, that's not how you engage on Twitter.

7:43

It's certainly black Twitter. So for us, it

7:45

was visually, how do you just keep that

7:47

feel and that style going? I think there

7:49

was just so much more room to expand

7:51

beyond the origin when you're moving into a

7:53

different medium. Within sort of a

7:55

magazine space, there's only so much you can Do.

7:57

And as brilliantly as it was. Executed

8:00

some good for wired I think just visually the

8:02

textures are much different. you can live in it

8:04

a little bit more and I think this doctor

8:06

the very well worth like I've never seen some

8:08

be like it's worth at the gifts are reacting

8:11

people were using it in in in a new

8:13

way that feels sort of like dynamic. A

8:15

graphic. Get Ill or part

8:18

of that developing ah, a

8:20

visual language. graphically that out

8:23

like. Black. Twitter on Tv

8:25

Law is something that we wanted to

8:27

really create and then I would else

8:29

is just. Bring. Up the Sats

8:31

as well on each that was

8:34

bespoke. On. And products

8:36

really wanted them to be

8:38

spaces where people actually tweet

8:40

ah, you know the subway

8:42

were in at the protests

8:44

stays the office, your bed

8:46

roam. The Salon. Those sort

8:48

of spaces that that black folks

8:50

are and happening at you know

8:53

and and tweeting from on and

8:55

so that was also I think

8:57

helpful to create that p saying

8:59

i'm. So. Wasn't just

9:01

so repetitive talking head. Typical.

9:04

Dot. Yeah. And I mean part

9:06

of that pacing and part of what draws

9:09

you in and part of what you're talking

9:11

about Jason is the humor, right? Like that.

9:13

There are so many little flashes like little

9:15

half second reaction gifts that I was like

9:17

hadn't seen in years. and seeing it just

9:20

like made me laugh out loud like a

9:22

fine while I'm watching it of and I

9:24

mean it's It's such an essential part of

9:26

the community and as such, an essential part

9:29

of the black suit or experience that humor.

9:32

You. we talk about two and at the

9:34

raquel says this is like either black or

9:36

trouble he brought having sort of two conversations

9:38

riders what we're talking about of the subjects

9:40

what we're talking about the south texas your

9:42

you somehow the subject is patty somehow the

9:45

subject was funny were black coaches always just

9:47

because of how we've had to survive this

9:49

country were always in busey humor ah even

9:51

into things i feel super series of we

9:53

talk about this later obviously an episode three

9:55

where you know we're dealing with a worldwide

9:57

pandemic and black people are just giving it

10:00

funny name It's like the vid, the panoramic,

10:02

the pananini. It's like, oh, even

10:04

in a thing where people are like, it's spreading

10:06

across the globe, why people are getting these jokes

10:08

off. But also giving real resources,

10:10

and here's how to do this, and here's how

10:12

to do that. So again, it's always like having two

10:15

conversations, but we felt if you didn't have humor in

10:17

this or use gifts in the way that we

10:20

use that, then it would not feel like the

10:22

way Black Twitter feels. Also,

10:24

it's important to not

10:26

have humor all the time, because there's

10:29

shit that's really serious. And so in

10:31

episode two, and we're getting into Ferguson

10:33

and the start of Black Lives Matter, we

10:37

had to give it the space

10:40

it deserved within the show, I

10:43

mean, within the series. It's

10:45

where we had to take sort of

10:48

a break and pump the brakes,

10:50

let's sit here for a moment, sit in this

10:52

in the way that we often, as Black

10:54

Americans, have to experience things in this

10:56

country and how, I think

10:58

Raquel, no, I think

11:00

it's Roxanne Gay, and she's like, you can kiki all you want, but

11:02

when you're Black in this country, you

11:06

gotta deal with some real shit. And

11:08

so that was important,

11:11

because we wanna stay in the funny, we wanna

11:13

stay in the celebration, but it's just really important

11:15

to talk about the serious shit too. Yeah,

11:19

and when we're talking about serious shit, we have to

11:21

talk about the power of the hashtag, because

11:23

very few communities embrace them so thoroughly,

11:25

as Black Twitter did. Yeah,

11:28

I mean, that was- So

11:30

many threads. So many threads,

11:32

obviously, Thanksgiving clapback being, initially

11:35

even starting it off as

11:37

we say in the doc, the hashtag was the

11:40

thing is the shade you're not saying in

11:42

the tweet, right? That's kinda like the subtext. And

11:44

then I think like a lot of Black culture

11:47

does, but it's like repurposing

11:49

something for something else past its original

11:51

intention, right? And then hashtags

11:53

became a thing for Black

11:55

Girl Magic, Black Lives Matter. It became a

11:58

way to sort of signify, find those. things

12:00

and say like, Hey, we're here to talk

12:02

about these things. These things are serious too.

12:04

So again, I think that's what you're going

12:06

to find in the progression of the doc

12:08

from episode one to two is these sort

12:10

of things that we were using comedically or

12:13

for fun or lighthearted ways. Now we need

12:15

to use them in different ways. We need

12:17

to use them to like, select to activate

12:19

ourselves. We need to use them to call

12:21

out the, the, the unfairness of something. So

12:23

I think that's the, that's the growth. Cause

12:25

we always talked about this doc being a

12:28

coming of age story, right? And so, cause

12:30

again, it's not around a person, it's not around

12:32

an event. So I really was at a, as

12:34

a narrative, uh, filmmaker, creator,

12:36

whatever. I'm always thinking, what's the

12:39

story though? Right? I gotta find a story

12:41

in this. And so really in Jason's article,

12:43

it kind of lays out as a perfect

12:45

three act structure that you would normally follow

12:47

in storytelling. And so for me, it

12:49

became like, Oh, the first act is fun

12:51

and light in the way that the coming of age

12:53

story typically is where we talked about Star Wars as

12:56

an example, where Luke is just sort of on the,

12:58

on the farm and doesn't know anything about the forest

13:00

and doesn't know anything about the rebellion. And then he

13:02

teams it with Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan thought that's the first

13:05

sort of, Oh, this is going to be a

13:07

darker thing possibly. And that was sort of our

13:09

Trayvon Martin. And obviously episode two gets a little

13:11

bit more serious in episode three is, is I

13:13

feel, and Jason talks about like black Twitter sort

13:15

of accepting its responsibility and stepping into its full

13:18

potential and power. And again, typically in a coming

13:20

of age story, that's typically when the hero is

13:22

sort of facing the final things to kind of grow and

13:24

become the hero that we needed to be. Um,

13:27

so that was also again, a huge part of

13:29

the doc in the storytelling. Jason,

13:32

one of the points you make in

13:34

the first episode is that once non-black

13:36

Twitter users became aware of it, journalists

13:39

started to cover it or reference it as

13:41

though it was some kind of, you, you

13:43

called it an anthropological experiment. How

13:46

is that description the antithesis to

13:48

what black Twitter really was? Yeah,

13:51

I think it was, it was, it was course because

13:53

I think of the, the inciting article, it was a,

13:55

what do you know, black folks doing up late at

13:58

night on Twitter. We wrote for the. all

14:00

I think it was. And I

14:02

think white media was very eager to

14:05

categorize this thing because they didn't quite

14:07

understand it. And I think

14:09

Black Twitter, being Black Twitter, is very good at

14:12

what I'd like to think of the remix culture.

14:14

They're like, oh, we're not quite. You want to

14:16

call us Black Twitter, even though we don't necessarily

14:19

see ourselves as Black Twitter. And you want to

14:21

put us in this box, in this space. But

14:23

we're all these things. We're undefinable and uncontainable. And

14:26

so I think that speaks to the growth of

14:28

Black Twitter we see from that point forward. OK,

14:31

call us Black Twitter. But we're still going to be all

14:33

these things. We're not just going to be over here on

14:35

the sidewalk. We

14:38

become the main avenue of Twitter. I think it's really

14:40

beautiful in that way. OK,

14:43

this feels like a good place to take a break. We'll be right

14:45

back. Our

14:50

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you get your podcasts. So

16:37

at the beginning of 2022, Elon Musk started

16:40

investing heavily in Twitter. And by the end of

16:42

the year, he owned it. Now,

16:44

Elon is a divisive guy. People either love

16:46

him or they love to hate him. And

16:49

lots of people bailed on Twitter when he took over. So

16:52

I have to ask, what are the

16:54

Elon vibes like in the black Twitter

16:56

community now? I imagine there's a diversity

16:58

of opinions. Are people leaving? Yeah,

17:01

the data points that there has been

17:03

a sort of exodus from Twitter of

17:06

users since Elon's the ownership change

17:09

to the platform. But it

17:11

hasn't been as sort of detrimental to black

17:13

users on the platform. People are, I think,

17:15

still staying in the space. I think something

17:18

I spoke with Professor Andre Brock, who's in

17:20

the documentary. He spoke a lot about this,

17:22

how since Musk

17:24

has taken over, you see black

17:26

folks sort of reverting to sort

17:28

of pre-Ferguson interaction, where it's sort

17:30

of this more mundane space. They're

17:32

sort of having these ordinary conversations.

17:37

It's not as influential as it was during sort of the

17:39

Black Lives Matter movement or during the

17:41

Trump administration. But they're still on the platform

17:43

doing what they do. And I think, again,

17:45

it speaks so inherently to what black

17:47

folks do when they come to these digital platforms,

17:49

where they're not made for us, but we're going

17:51

to make them force in our own way, no

17:53

matter who's in charge. Because whether it's Jack, whether

17:55

it's Elon, whether it's who comes next, I think

17:57

they're still going to do what we do. And

18:00

that's what we're saying. And

18:02

it's still going to be the place where folks are

18:04

coming together to find community

18:07

when they need to, whether

18:09

that's the queer community, trans

18:12

community being like, I need to find somebody who

18:14

looks like me. I live in this small town,

18:16

like what you were saying before. And

18:20

then beyond that, just we're still here for the

18:22

joke. So when there was the earthquake in New

18:24

York last week, like you still need to go

18:26

to Twitter and see what black people are saying

18:29

about it. It's hilarious. What

18:31

were some of the things that jumped out at you during that? Is

18:36

the Harlem Shake happening? Like the

18:38

Harlem Shake? Yeah, the Harlem Shake,

18:40

like. Yeah,

18:44

I never forgot the tweet from, there was

18:46

an earlier earthquake like years ago in New

18:48

York City, and there was a meme on

18:50

Twitter where a lawn chair had fallen over

18:52

and someone, the hashtag never forget.

18:56

Which is just perfect. I

18:59

want to go back to something you said earlier,

19:01

Joey, about how Prentice was willing to

19:03

engage with fans on Twitter. He

19:06

would clap back. He was having fun with Twitter.

19:08

And you were more of an observer. You wanted

19:10

to stand back a little bit and not jump

19:12

into the fray. And I'm wondering if, in

19:15

an era where Trump was Twitter president,

19:17

where Elon Musk now owns Twitter, if

19:20

the black community is feeling less safe

19:22

on Twitter? I think that

19:24

it's all what, you know, black folks are always

19:27

going to have a target

19:29

on their back. You know, that's sort of

19:31

how we roll in

19:33

the world. And that's sort of something that we

19:35

accept as part of our life. There's a

19:38

visibility to us that's always

19:41

there. And, you know, Twitter is no

19:43

different. It was sort of once it

19:45

was exposed, black Twitter was exposed or

19:47

what have you. And it became this

19:49

sort of fishbowl where folks were looking in. You

19:53

know, there's always that. There's always going, you

19:55

know, we have Baratunde in the dock saying,

19:58

you know, we're always going to use that. Microphone

20:00

Arm And what that means is

20:02

that overtime. There's always been attempts

20:05

to silence. Black. Americans arms

20:07

that they will find a way.

20:09

To speak their true. Arm and

20:11

Black Twitter and Twitter in general has

20:14

been a place where we've been able

20:16

to express ourselves to fight each other

20:18

to have these conversations that are important

20:20

to us to find safety. When

20:22

we are being threatened. Arm.

20:24

And that continues. I think today that

20:26

happens. Yeah, oh, during the Trump era.

20:29

It's happening. You know it happens now.

20:31

There's you know we were. We were

20:33

talking to someone earlier and they're talking

20:35

about how there's. Some. The

20:37

pro just all. Of that the

20:39

murderers of black trans people that

20:42

are happening in this country and

20:44

we're also you going to choose

20:46

to learn about that said on

20:48

twitter like it's not going. To

20:51

be on Cnn it's not going

20:53

to be anywhere. Also says authorizations

20:55

are still are really important to

20:57

to finding safety and. At we

20:59

we sometimes talked about black twitter as

21:02

as digital green book. Where.

21:04

Weekend where? Yeah, the same way that the

21:06

green bugs ridges you know in the Civil

21:08

Rights movement. This. Is a way that

21:10

I'm We've been able to utilize the

21:12

here. So. I

21:15

think that as it's definitely a tool that

21:17

we have to users as users and also be

21:19

like I'm of to the was ever a

21:21

say spread right to be murdered. Really examine our

21:23

i like I did. You were seeing people

21:25

speak up on a platform that couldn't speak up

21:27

with the same way that is like normal in

21:30

America right? Because such an absurd to like

21:32

unless you have a. Camera.

21:34

In a new station will black coaches.

21:36

They get to dictate sometimes how we're

21:38

or stories right. would like to took

21:40

like killer narratives a lot and so

21:43

that was the first place that were.

21:46

finance was not a deterrent to telling your

21:48

story right because we all have been beyond

21:50

our bodies was hilarious of the ah the

21:53

printing press writer my palm of her hand

21:55

right and so i think we were just

21:57

speaking up about things that were happening they

21:59

just doesn't being reported on any other

22:01

place. And so I think the perception

22:03

I think of it seems like, oh

22:06

man, these black people own this space. It's like,

22:08

well, we don't own this space. We're just speaking

22:10

up in a way that's equal to the way

22:13

other mainstream culture speaks up in

22:15

America. Right? So it seems, but because

22:17

it's new and it's like, oh, it's so

22:19

it seems like it's like we're running

22:22

it or controlling it or dominating it in that way.

22:25

But obviously we can't because of the percentage

22:27

of black culture that exists in this country

22:29

relative to mainstream culture. We just don't physically

22:31

have the millions of numbers to even match

22:33

that. So I just think that that just

22:35

allow, to me, it was even the response

22:37

to that is like, well, these black

22:39

people, these hundreds of millions of black people are

22:42

like 100 million black people in America. I

22:44

mean, so it's just like, but it's just

22:46

like, oh, they're speaking in a way that,

22:48

yeah, they're just speaking in a way that's

22:50

like, hey, we're just calling out the inequities

22:53

and inequalities, I'm sorry, in this country that

22:55

just exists. And so I think it seems

22:57

that way, but if I look back, I

22:59

go like, I initially feel safer. I think

23:01

when you were watching the sort of Obama

23:03

election, a lot of the things about black

23:05

Twitter was just trying to support this black

23:08

man who was running for president. It wasn't,

23:10

it was just like, hey, don't talk

23:12

about his, we know where

23:14

he's from. He's an American citizen. We're just calling

23:16

out the things that like CNN and

23:18

MSNBC and those places were just kind of

23:20

like letting other people just say without kind

23:23

of calling that to the carpet. We were just doing that

23:25

in a way that now, they do

23:27

like call those things out now, but they weren't calling

23:30

them out even the 2016, like

23:32

election wasn't calling those things out. And I just

23:34

think about Twitter was just speaking up, just giving

23:36

a contrary point of view to

23:38

what that community was feeling, but I don't

23:40

necessarily know if it felt safer, I guess. Well,

23:44

there were a number of years,

23:47

like especially the Obama years, where

23:49

Twitter was really like driving conversation.

23:52

There's a lot that was coming out

23:54

of the community, Black Twitter, the other

23:56

communities on Twitter that were really driving

23:59

the conversation. Now things are a lot

24:01

more fragmented. TikTok dominates a lot more

24:03

of the conversation. Instagram dominates a lot

24:05

more. So how are things

24:07

changed now that there's not one place where

24:09

most people hang out, now there's a few

24:12

places where a lot of people hang out?

24:15

No, yeah, I think social media's that are

24:17

really interesting turning point. I think since Elon

24:20

Musk took over the platform, we've seen a

24:22

lot of other digital

24:24

spaces pop up and try to

24:26

usurp or jockey for position and

24:29

take over Twitter's influence that it's had over these

24:31

sort of last 20 years. But

24:33

I think it's tough to your point, like

24:35

TikTok has a lot of

24:37

hype, but I don't know if it has lasting influence

24:40

in the way that we think Twitter does. Or maybe

24:42

it's too early to say, I'm not really quite sure

24:44

where it's going. To your point,

24:46

it is a lot more fragmented. It

24:48

is a lot more split up, but I think maybe

24:51

that's just what it looks like next. I don't think,

24:53

I was talking to a friend the other day and

24:55

he was like, I don't think everybody necessarily needs to

24:57

be one space having these conversations anymore. Maybe this is

25:00

just sort of the next turning point of social media.

25:02

We're all sort of in- Like

25:04

the evolution of that. Yeah, it's just sort of,

25:06

it's constantly moving and changing. And

25:08

I think Twitter was very specific to the

25:10

moment and the historical things that happened, but

25:13

maybe this next moment is calling for something

25:15

different. We go to different places for different

25:17

things. Right, but I will say in this

25:19

next moment, I think we're gonna see black

25:21

folks, queer folks, women, having more ownership

25:23

over these spaces than they did in

25:25

the years prior for sure. Yeah. The

25:29

setter verse is gonna fix it all. I

25:35

think it's also like human nature, right? When you

25:37

find something that feels familiar to wanna stay there,

25:39

right? It's just like comforting to know that's where

25:41

I go for this and this and that's where

25:43

I go for that. And when those things get

25:45

like anything that gets, there's

25:48

some upheaval there, the tendency

25:50

is built, oh, where's the next place I

25:52

can put this down to rest this thing.

25:55

And It's always nervous when you're like, well, what

25:57

is that? So The instinct I think is the...

26:00

Why? to be quickly but I always find

26:02

like what is the right place for that.

26:04

I think we weren't looking for twitter. At

26:07

that time and it just because of it's playability

26:09

with a lot of different things so it was

26:11

very pliable to make it be kind of whatever

26:13

needed like different in phase. but I've I could

26:15

answer them. Oh my god one of the I'm

26:17

going to see pictures of he declared them as

26:19

a little ponies if if I got a raise.

26:22

but unless you my aunt post as a fifty

26:24

paragraph thing about how can you have any the

26:26

poet there are a task but as he had

26:28

it makes so there is a real life soap.

26:30

what's what's winter was pliable with that way you

26:32

could actually be a lot of different things and

26:34

I think it was good in that Ryan abiding.

26:37

That into the were that next themselves I'd be

26:39

curious to know. Isn't even going to be a

26:41

social media day with actually my god it will.

26:43

it be something that's when he isn't that doesn't

26:45

even exist today. In the same with that that

26:47

didn't exist in our twenty something years ago Sadiq

26:50

I'm I'm I'm learning to like say it's okay

26:52

to live born the uncomfortable yet I should like

26:54

a nice place to kind of be sometimes because

26:56

it doesn't allow you to think you know everything.

26:58

I mean that's the problem as we get his

27:00

country. When we we we assume we know everything

27:03

as opposed like a like to have more to

27:05

learn but I'm an adult I know. Lot of

27:07

England. Each of you can't possibly know everything you

27:09

need to know right by. it's I think so.

27:11

I'm trying to find ways for myself and he

27:13

would encourage. My. Family and my

27:16

kids like live in uncomfortable it's er

27:18

it's of okay place to be great

27:20

things happen their arm as opposed by

27:22

you know the answer you know everything

27:24

of gonna happen. So yeah. Yeah,

27:26

I miss Twitter for that reason. I mean,

27:28

and Twitter still exists, but Alec, I miss

27:30

the old Twitter for that reason. learning things,

27:33

having conversations kang percent of your comfort zone.

27:35

Some I. Decided. I had a friend of

27:37

mine so that Mister Oats would like under the Oregon. Have

27:42

a man. Possessed a separate ago

27:44

when think I'll. See

27:47

you in A bunch of social

27:49

media superstars to participate in this

27:51

Roxane Gay you mentioned earlier Amanda

27:54

Feals Kid Fury at their Ten

27:56

Day. You mentioned earlier Jenna Wortham

27:58

that. It Meredith, clerk

28:01

of the Professor, his archiving black Twitter

28:03

sheath and par Am and on our

28:05

own Jason and is there anyone who

28:07

you didn't hear from or you could

28:09

him for a clear like were gonna

28:11

put it out there now we still

28:13

want to hear from you your experience

28:15

on black twitter. Germany.

28:18

Have either. Vog. I didn't feel like I said.

28:23

I mean. Like the we we went out request

28:25

a husband. I'm not full size but be

28:27

at he we any wanted to be on it

28:29

I've heard now which is great but. Very.

28:32

Busy Guy has a lot of different jobs or. I'm.

28:34

Sure that that was about as someone has, we felt

28:36

like he was a really great person who could. Speak

28:39

to the very early days of

28:41

Twitter. Ah, Because he was so asked.

28:43

His. With the Mayor Bloomberg

28:45

outta the way with Love Sex? yeah

28:47

some people back of the celebrities are,

28:50

ya know? Yeah and we're. Talking

28:52

to everybody I wake up and like have a conversation

28:55

with him in and go about your day. Last request

28:57

Live with regret that I would have been a good

28:59

one for me was deeper over yes he says would

29:01

have been gray. don't even try to do them from

29:03

our history but the timing was just. Yeah,

29:06

I've heard that was the same for this job.

29:08

yet the whimpers i I was I think of

29:10

a similar thing. I think. What? Kerry

29:12

Washington because we get an Id

29:14

as scandal. And. You have

29:16

a d curious about what it's like. When.

29:19

You're a nice got to see with Isa but

29:21

carry was kind of already a celebrity in a

29:23

different when he's a was arm of like what

29:25

it's like with you for your community is showing

29:27

up for you from from that side of the

29:29

mirror right? I know how it feels to be

29:31

like a fan of somebody but what does it

29:33

feel like to feel like ah don't know if

29:35

my blood the show in the oh my god

29:37

like people are supporting the on is crap woman

29:40

I'm talking to my your to me to see

29:42

like what that sided looking glass looks like for

29:44

some one onto has has it that was the

29:46

start of watch parties I was a sort of

29:48

live tweeting now with. The start of so many things

29:50

now that are just like you just assume the per

29:52

television or a part of movies or a part of

29:54

those things are when you know studio birds and here's

29:57

our role that you're gonna lives with you. There's like

29:59

it all star, they're right and so I take in

30:01

the same way that j to be a sort of

30:03

classes or the mayor of blacks would be nice like

30:05

a what would like to be at the hub. Of.

30:08

That from the very beginning arm and

30:10

seeing how that has again just really

30:12

shades. Com. So eating that

30:14

be influencing like Zola on the platform where

30:16

you're like were was alive was point to

30:18

somebody elses life. You know that doesn't care

30:20

to the. Ah

30:22

yeah that is why should I pay as you

30:25

the Genesis or so. I'll be sad that show

30:27

was his or are we. I was like always

30:29

when the half hundred be a par with skinned

30:31

Alive of having. I don't know if

30:33

they can happen to mention a t about one

30:35

of our conference rooms here at Wired Officers is

30:38

actually named after Quest One, so maybe we should

30:40

let him know that status is tenuous. Now I

30:42

don't know. Actually,

30:44

Sell the Mayor Athena? Yes,

30:46

yeah. They're images that I can be worn

30:48

out. A success

30:51

at a fan of Mayor America

30:53

We got so many amazing people!

30:55

Yeah! And now I'm always just

30:57

at when you're in this. Space.

31:00

Of documentary filmmaking like it, You have to

31:02

be so grateful to all the voices of

31:04

reason that take the time out of their

31:06

schedules to come and sit down with you.

31:09

All the people that were in the kick

31:11

back the have regular jobs and had take

31:13

time off and come over to hang out

31:15

with us arm and talk about their experiences

31:18

on the platform and how they moved everything

31:20

and and did so much for the culture.

31:23

I. I've just always. I'm so grateful.

31:25

To them as and. Really? Incredible Waste

31:27

is so many people wanted to be

31:29

participate. They really wanted to be a part

31:31

of this. It wasn't one of those situations. Where you're

31:34

trying barely away at where you like trying.

31:36

To convince somebody. Ah I'm they They

31:38

They were like oh shit you guys

31:40

are doing. This you guys retelling this or

31:42

I wanted I have some stories to tell

31:45

so that was really refreshing and and vomiting

31:47

they were to pick who have been that

31:49

part of my final. Well

31:52

yeah, but who anywhere without any

31:54

Obama liverpool is inserted up when

31:56

she was also employed for all

31:58

this the how. You. Have to

32:01

give. Latter is not just made up of those people are

32:03

made up of. Everyday people that

32:05

weren't trying to be to to be doing

32:07

anything extend their lives mostly change went on

32:09

to me like those people like a guild

32:12

actors like a genetic Lz right or khasab

32:14

house and who's just like respond to something

32:16

and just tweet out in a black girls

32:18

are magic and now by grammarly it's like

32:21

my kids just know that express v oh

32:23

no Oh started from this woman who like

32:25

was peeling away of of about black women

32:27

as he's we just try a so of

32:30

poor and now that thing is just a

32:32

thing right you know we don't and. So

32:34

to me if I that's whoo Black twitters

32:37

also made up his just people that were

32:39

like on just responding as a human being

32:41

to the culture in this moment and then

32:43

that is a big that becomes. Viral.

32:46

Young again and so but it but the latin

32:48

we don't know if I could. You focus on

32:50

top of what as are you not know scattershot

32:52

half of that the person that's a black girl

32:54

magic rather the first time in like put it

32:56

out the as out like that is to me

32:58

the most people I make a black twitter is

33:00

as the people that were like other person that

33:02

was there filming the joint floyd that that who's

33:04

who's that that person is by virtue right south

33:06

So all of these people are that right though

33:08

might define a serious and so was employed The

33:10

have those voices also be a part of the

33:12

back of a good. you can't tell that story

33:14

without. Them. being a part of it to. Rent.

33:18

A cable thanks to discuss. This has been a really

33:20

great conversation, but we have to take a break and

33:22

we're going to come right back with our recommendations. One.

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34:14

now. Okay,

34:20

now here's a recommendation segment where we all go

34:22

around the room and ask everyone what cool

34:24

or weird thing they're into lately. The start with

34:26

you, Joey. Ah, last week

34:29

on Laughlin say it Went to the

34:31

Mat Opera in New York City and

34:33

I saw Fire. Shop in my been.

34:36

Ah, The first I believe

34:38

it's diverse offer that was ever on

34:40

campus. But. At the Matt. Hi.

34:42

A block. Ah. Composer Terrence

34:45

Blanchard of Spike Lee

34:47

fame. Ah, I'm and

34:49

it was incredible. It

34:51

was just so. It's

34:53

such a spectacular shall

34:55

I'm really moving Really.

34:57

Side. Arm but

34:59

just gorgeous. Li executed.

35:02

On at it. It just ended May

35:04

second, so hopefully it will come to

35:06

a city near you soon. As

35:09

well we will watch for it's

35:11

a do apprentice. What is your

35:13

recommendation? Ah a got

35:15

super into is not as cool as

35:17

were Joy said Ah has really gotten

35:20

into these really interesting things are you

35:22

to get the two things one have

35:24

club is guys as is really funny

35:26

thing carpets meetings and he basically pisses

35:28

them to himself on you tube ad

35:30

breaks down all these are leery of

35:32

movies and it says so funny ah

35:34

but talking all the holes in it

35:36

and is everyone is a sick I

35:38

stumbled onto to would you like this

35:40

guy does these ai versions of. Movie

35:43

trailers as if they were made

35:45

the nineteen fifties. So he does

35:47

right be adventures and so the

35:49

art yours really cool and stylize

35:51

it. The you started doing was

35:53

that works other filmmakers doing other things

35:55

will he did. Wes Anderson does

35:57

the adventures and it is the

35:59

funny. There's a brazen swordsman of like Iron

36:01

Man, a Bill Murray a store is so

36:04

funny and is just so plenty of like

36:06

at the way he does the trailer the

36:08

like a minute and a half and it

36:10

is the plenty of but would he does

36:12

was innocent of the adventures of the here.

36:14

it's like and it's all been erased. It

36:16

is like and Hawkeye has twenty or more

36:18

arrows ads and it's like all the like

36:21

Oh and the ability started is just like

36:23

a big big stone is in the middle

36:25

of a desert. two different color that is

36:27

just like as I say Another they have

36:29

like perfectly symmetrical. Fill out the and it's

36:31

broke out but you've got older. It's great

36:33

but that's when audiences. Are. Some

36:36

nice love it or jason

36:38

your turn. My. Recommendation: Today

36:40

is the so of the movie Other show

36:42

them on a complex where a people's history

36:44

as showed them on at all but I

36:46

recommend X Men Ninety Seven on the last.

36:49

If. You know, from my childhood watching

36:51

X Men, I think it's so hard to

36:53

see a room. A reboot done really really

36:55

well and maybe even better than the original.

36:58

So good arm I have no no it's

37:00

it's a perfect ten ten it's it's I've

37:02

watched every episode like three times. every up

37:05

like it's a make An estimated is. Alright,

37:09

Alright, More. In. My.

37:11

Recommendation is the cell of the

37:13

Moments of lox ah Doc Black,

37:15

Twitter a people's History and also

37:17

read Jason's original cover story and

37:20

Wired were gonna link to that

37:22

and the show notes. All of

37:24

you can read it at Just

37:26

Immerse Yourself. It's. It's. And

37:29

really brilliantly done. And ah,

37:31

that's my recommendation this week.

37:33

Nice! What's yours is a success as

37:35

I'm going to recommend the instant coffee

37:38

now. like instant coffee has just been

37:40

terrible most of our live. Yes it's

37:42

just been really bad than has not

37:44

been. Worth. Even considering. But

37:47

for some reason, like and last

37:49

year or less, there's been this

37:51

renaissance in instant coffee where you

37:53

can get like really great, like

37:55

high quality freeze dried coffee that

37:57

no joke tastes exactly like. They're

38:00

brewed coffee. Bird

38:02

is a good one. I know you can

38:04

get them like all around the country. If

38:06

you're in the Bay Area you can get

38:08

like Timeless therefore barrel ah and of Blue

38:10

Bottle yeah. Com bubble of that blue bottle. Packets.

38:13

I haven't used them yet. I haven't used them now. Give

38:15

them a try. Yeah, so I see. Feels weird

38:17

like you know I'm a copy person. Yeah, that

38:19

is Kelly Blue to sleep with. His is really

38:21

bad for a while now. it's ago actually. Blue

38:23

cheese cake. As. S

38:25

and when that happened you had to give

38:27

his people. There were people who have all

38:29

never own a pair blue to be at

38:32

totally Bilic junk know list. Actually a good

38:34

now So yeah this is insane. Copies Blue

38:36

Tooth Moments. Pace that

38:38

fate or write. Or

38:41

the old happening for the next had just

38:43

sort of your more tapenade at. All

38:45

right well that is our show for this

38:47

week. Thank you so much to our guests

38:49

Joey, Jacoby, Prentice, Penny and Jason Farm. Thank

38:52

you so much for being here. Thank.

38:54

You so much as you guys are having. As so

38:56

much fun it was so fun having

38:58

you all on and I I really

39:00

mean it when I say everyone said

39:02

run and not walk to watch the

39:04

stocky series Black Twitter A People's History

39:06

comes out today may ninth on Hulu.

39:08

So. Go check it out when you're done listening

39:10

to podcasts. Which. Is now. It's.

39:14

The. Thank you all for listening. If you have

39:16

feedback you could find all of us on

39:18

twitter of course just check the show notes

39:20

or producer is the excellent Boon Ashworth and

39:22

will be back with another episode next week.

39:24

And until then. I

39:33

I'm Jeremy Larson, the reviews director of

39:36

Pitchforks and his podcast is supported by

39:38

Pitchforks Music Festival. Is

39:40

expected to close ally Nine Keep

39:42

the Twenty First at Union Plaza

39:44

in Chicago, Illinois. Lineup features Jamie

39:46

Xx or minus more set blasphemous

39:49

Carly Rae, Jepsen, Brittany Howard, Jay,

39:51

Paul Moon, or Jessie Ware, One

39:53

Hundred Guests and many more. The

39:55

Best will also features diverse vendors

39:57

as well as specific record posters

39:59

and. Craft beers and works. The

40:01

support local businesses was promoting the Chicago

40:04

arts and food community as offers a

40:06

more information on stickers and lineup. Visit

40:08

Stitch of the Success or.com.