0:00

This is the BBC. This

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podcast is supported by advertising

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outside the UK.

0:07

BBC Sounds.

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Music, radio, podcasts. Hello,

0:14

I'm Cathy Clugston and this is Gardiners' Question

0:16

Time from BBC Radio 4. So

0:19

grab those secateurs or sit back

0:21

and relax, however you like to listen, and

0:24

enjoy the next 45 minutes of great tips,

0:26

advice and dubious horticultural

0:28

humour.

0:30

Says my uncle, I pray you

0:32

discover, what hath been the cause

0:35

of your woes? Why you pine

0:37

and you whine like a lover, I've

0:40

seen Molly Mogg of the Rose.

0:43

That was from John Gay's poem,

0:45

The Ballad of Molly Mogg. The Rose,

0:48

mentioned there, refers to a pub in the

0:50

bustling market town of Wokingham, where

0:52

sweet Molly Mogg was wowing the

0:54

local lads, and outside which I

0:56

happen to be standing ahead of today's Gardiners'

0:59

Question Time. The building directly

1:01

opposite, the Town Hall, which is our venue

1:04

today, bears the town's coat

1:06

of arms. Amongst four ears

1:08

of wheat are a number of acorn seeds

1:11

set against a crown of foliage. The

1:13

acorns hark back to the town's previous

1:16

name, Wokingham, meaning Town

1:18

of the Forest. And with nearby

1:20

Birch Hill, Pope's Wood, Arbour

1:23

Field, Barkham and Woodley,

1:26

it seems trees and their collective forests

1:29

are woven throughout this part

1:30

of southern England. So let's

1:32

pass under the coat of arms and into the hall

1:35

to join our GQT panel, who

1:37

usually do seem to manage to see the

1:39

wood for the trees.

1:40

So

1:43

Wokingham, please welcome designer Matthew

1:45

Wilson and passionate plant people, Christine Wharton

1:49

and Matt Biggs, your GQT panel.

1:55

And coming up, an inspirational story

1:57

of how an urban scrap of land has been

1:59

transformed. transformed into an inner-city oasis

2:02

thanks to keen community growers. Find

2:05

out what and where later in the programme.

2:08

But for now, let's take our first question.

2:10

Hello, I'm Sophie Scott from

2:12

Wokingham. My husband

2:14

likes to rake up all

2:17

the leaves in our garden. He

2:19

sometimes uses a leaf blower to hoover

2:21

them up too. We have an oak

2:24

tree at the end of the garden, so we have a lot of leaves. I

2:27

think he should leave the leaves

2:30

that end up in the flower beds for

2:32

the worms.

2:33

Who is right? Who shall

2:35

I throw this particular grenade

2:38

to? Matthew

2:41

Wilson. Well,

2:43

you're right, of course. Obviously.

2:45

Thank you. I mean, you know,

2:48

leaf blowers are banned in California and

2:50

various other parts of America

2:53

where, you know, noise suppression

2:55

laws, unless, of course, is it an electric one

2:57

or is it a petrol one?

2:58

I think it's electric, actually.

3:00

Oh, OK. So he gets a pass on that.

3:02

I mean, petrol ones are the most dismal,

3:04

awful, noisy, horrendous bits

3:07

of kit imaginable. So, electric one,

3:09

not so bad. It's

3:11

fascinating. We spend so much of

3:13

our time on this programme talking

3:16

about soil improvement, talking about the benefit

3:19

of organic matter to our soil.

3:22

And although leaves are not particularly nutrient

3:24

rich because, you know, effectively

3:26

they're a spent force when they land on the soil,

3:29

they are a great means of conditioning

3:31

soil and adding some sort of body and

3:34

texture to soil. And we spend all this

3:36

time talking about, you know, improving the

3:38

soil by adding stuff. And then people

3:41

are raking it up and getting rid of it. And

3:43

you think, what? If you've got a leaf blower, fine.

3:45

Blow the leaves onto the beds and

3:47

let them break down on the beds. If you don't want them on

3:49

the lawn, I get that because, you know, obviously

3:51

on a lawn, they can kill off the grass and

3:53

cause problems. Blow them onto

3:56

the beds. That way, not only are

3:58

you allowing them to break down. improve the soil, but

4:00

you're also providing a much needed habitat

4:03

for insects

4:06

in particular to overwinter in.

4:09

Another personal bugbear of mine, when you

4:11

hear people on TV

4:14

and radio and magazines talking about

4:17

giving the garden a good clear up in winter,

4:19

get rid of all the bad pests, you're

4:22

getting rid of everything, aren't you? You're getting rid of

4:24

the good guys as well. So you need to have a balance. And

4:27

one of the best ways of having a balance is just let

4:29

things be a little bit woolly around

4:31

the edges. Okay, that's one

4:33

nail so far. Not big? Yes,

4:37

I would say rake all the leaves off the lawn

4:40

because, as Matthew says, you don't have

4:42

to leave them for very long before the grass

4:45

goes yellow underneath. So rake up all the leaves

4:48

off the lawn into the border. The

4:50

reason I suppose that we do gather leaves together

4:52

is so that we can put them in wire frames

4:55

and have a larger volume. So it rots down

4:58

more rapidly. But in nature, of course,

5:00

if you go for a walk in the woods nearby,

5:02

it will break down. And the other thing

5:04

is by leaving the

5:07

leaves on the borders,

5:10

then they also act as a protective mulch

5:12

for herbaceous plants that are down

5:14

below. So that's a double bonus. Little

5:16

bit of frost protection. Yes, frost protection.

5:18

Yes, the only occasion I would remove them

5:20

is on the smaller modalis at alpine

5:23

and things like that that they can completely

5:26

cover the plants and then you lose it. But

5:28

apart from that, no, leave them there.

5:30

We have the result, three nil. Is

5:33

he here?

5:34

No, he isn't, but I'll go home and tell

5:37

him.

5:37

How are you going

5:39

to do that? How are

5:41

you going to do that? Gently, I

5:43

think. Just gather some leaves, put them on the lawn,

5:45

three nil. Excellent,

5:48

thank you. Thanks

5:50

for your question. Let's go over here, then.

6:00

Ah, okay. So you say repots,

6:02

these aren't new bulbs that you've bought. No,

6:04

no, they're about five years old. I brought

6:06

them back from the Silly Isles with me. Ah,

6:08

okay. And they've been in the

6:10

same pot ever since. And

6:12

what, they're getting a bit too big for the pots, getting congested

6:14

or...?

6:15

Well, no, they seem to

6:17

be absolutely fine, but every

6:19

time I think perhaps I should repot them, they've

6:21

already started to groan, so I don't like

6:23

to disturb them. Christine, what do you think?

6:26

What I would do is

6:27

not disturb them, but if you

6:30

can get around the top half of the bulb and

6:33

remove the foil from there and just

6:35

top dress. I mean, narcissists

6:38

will be well integral for this down

6:40

at the year. Normally they start around

6:42

about the third, fourth week of July, once

6:45

you've got a bit of moisture around. And lots

6:47

of people think that daffodils

6:50

produce their flowers in the spring. Garbage.

6:53

The flowers are produced in the autumn. And

6:55

a lot of the growth is already done in the

6:57

autumn before they even see it. So

7:00

they will be integral, and that's it. I would use

7:02

a loam-based material, and

7:04

you could include some slow-release fertilizer

7:07

in there, and then just

7:09

top dress the pot with some grit.

7:11

Thank you very much. So not too late at all.

7:13

On you go. Who's next?

7:16

Hello, panel. My name's Leslie

7:18

Silverthorne, and I live in the middle of Wokingan

7:21

in Sturgis Road. Recently

7:23

we've seen at least one and possibly two

7:26

bats in our garden. And I just

7:28

wondered whether the panel would suggest any

7:30

specific plants or a habitat that

7:32

we could

7:33

create to keep them happy. What

7:35

can we do to help them out in the

7:37

garden? They will take, actually,

7:40

the insects from most plants,

7:42

and the compazites are really good. So

7:44

members of the Daisy family, particularly

7:47

late summer flowering as well when they're

7:49

out and about. So, Heleniums

7:52

would do really well. If you have areas of grasses

7:54

as well, you get gnats above

7:56

there, have some water in the garden

7:59

too. even if it's just a small

8:01

amount, again, you will get the midges

8:03

and they will come and do the tidying

8:06

up. So most plants that attract insects

8:09

will be of benefit to bats. Fascinating

8:11

thing about bats is that their echolocation

8:15

allows them or enables them to

8:18

detect the size of the insect.

8:20

So if you've got a little bat with a big moth, it

8:22

bounces back and the bat goes, oh, hang

8:25

on a minute, that's too big for me. But if it

8:27

bounces back from a tiny midge, then

8:29

it will go and eat it so that they can detect

8:31

the size. So

8:33

really, any plants

8:36

within the garden, but particularly the open daisy

8:39

flowers. Matthew, I remember we were

8:41

recording at Beth Chateau's garden and

8:43

you said, look at that. One came out in the

8:45

middle of the day. It did, yeah, it was flitting around

8:47

across the pond. Yeah, well, they have three

8:50

different roosting moments,

8:52

if you like. They have their maternity roosts,

8:54

which is all pregnant

8:56

mothers and babies. And then

8:58

that roost will break down and the male

9:01

young adults will fly off and they will roost

9:04

together. And the females may

9:06

roost somewhere else, other roost in small groups. And then

9:08

of course, in winter, they have their hibernaculum

9:11

where they all come together and they will hibernate through

9:13

the winter together. We have them hibernating

9:15

in our loft space at home,

9:17

which is lovely. And here, occasionally

9:19

scratching around in the depths of winter,

9:22

if one of them has woken up and gone, whoa,

9:24

that was a big sleep. But

9:28

what I've noticed is that certainly light and

9:30

white flowered plants, in a buddly

9:33

moonlight, for example, classic example, that

9:35

will be covered in silver

9:36

why

9:37

moths in the evening. So I think

9:40

they're definitely more, light flowered

9:42

plants are definitely more visible to

9:45

nocturnal insects. Makes complete sense, doesn't

9:47

it, if you think about it. And I will

9:49

just end with this, because people

9:51

often mistakenly think that bats are sort

9:54

of mice with wings. You

9:56

know, the average lifespan of

9:59

PIP Australia

10:01

28 years. I

10:04

mean they are amazing

10:06

animals and they are long-lived

10:08

animals and we should all be a

10:10

lot more mindful of them. And a number

10:13

of species are in big trouble in the UK so everything

10:15

we can do as gardeners to help them is

10:17

really important. Thanks, lovely questions.

10:21

Thank you. Let's take another one.

10:22

Christine Boorham from Wokingham Horticultural

10:25

Association. What is your

10:27

favourite plant

10:29

for autumn colour in your own garden

10:31

and why? Matthew, what do

10:33

you go for?

10:35

I love, and I've got a little grove,

10:38

that sounds quite fancy doesn't it, I've got a grove of

10:42

four prunus yedawensis.

10:45

They are the Japanese flowering cherry but

10:47

they are a very, they are not the sort of big blousy

10:51

type of Japanese flowering cherry. They have a small

10:53

pale pink almond scented

10:56

flower very early and

10:58

their autumn colour is beautiful.

11:00

It starts off yellow then starts

11:02

to go pinky red, not an intense red

11:05

like a maple but a sort of soft

11:07

red. Really, really lovely thing.

11:09

I plant them a lot in

11:11

my work, you know, I recommend them a lot for

11:14

clients because it's, you know, we're always

11:16

talking about sort of great small trees. It

11:18

is a great small tree, you know, medium sized

11:21

tree because it's got flowers,

11:23

it's got autumn colour and it's got

11:25

great shape. Matt, what have you got?

11:27

Right by my back door, I

11:30

don't know who chose to plant it there, but right

11:32

by my back door we've got a little arm. Is it you

11:35

Matt? It must have been then. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:38

Our beautist yudidaw and

11:40

a very compact form called elf

11:42

and the autumn colour isn't in the leaves

11:45

but in the flowers and at the moment and

11:48

it will go on until really the first

11:50

frost. It's absolutely covered with

11:52

beautiful clusters of Lily of

11:54

the Valley like flowers and they're on masses

11:56

of them and they're followed by fruits. that

12:00

are rounded orange

12:03

and red and you can actually

12:05

eat them. Unido apparently

12:08

means you only eat one

12:11

because they look lovely but the taste

12:13

is not that great. And the removing

12:15

experience if you have more.

12:17

I

12:20

only ate one. Sensible

12:23

person. Christine. Well

12:25

my favourite is Sorbus Joseph

12:27

Rock, a medium sized

12:28

tree. Beautiful,

12:30

amber, orange,

12:32

tans, gold in

12:34

its foliage. And my treat

12:36

that the leaf petal, so that the stem

12:38

of the leaf, stays on the tree and it's

12:41

a cherry red. It's a stunning

12:43

thing. That lasts longer than leaves because

12:45

the individual leaflets drop off

12:48

but the red leaf stain remains.

12:50

So Christine have you remembered all those? No. It's

12:55

fine you don't need to. All you have to

12:57

do is just go to the GKD website

13:00

and you'll find all the plants mentioned in the program

13:03

are listed underneath this particular episode. They'll

13:05

all be written out there don't worry. Thank you.

13:08

Thanks for your question. Let's take another

13:10

one.

13:10

Hi my name is Marika Fawcett

13:13

and I'm from the Wokingham Horticulture

13:15

Association. I have very

13:17

clay soil. How can I improve

13:19

the condition of my soil and

13:22

what are the best plants to grow in clay

13:24

soil?

13:24

So what can we do about growing

13:27

on the clay soil? Has Marika

13:29

drawn the short straw here? No she more

13:31

certainly have not and clays

13:34

are fantastic soils. Probably

13:36

the best soil if they manage

13:38

properly. And the real

13:41

crooks to a clay soil is

13:43

organic matter. Organic matter,

13:46

organic matter, organic matter, organic

13:48

matter more organic matter. Not

13:52

sounds, not grits.

13:55

Now what you're trying to do with a clay

13:57

soil is basically bringing the particles

13:59

together.

13:59

It's called aggregation of the

14:02

particles.

14:02

And if you think that they

14:05

are very tiny particles, they're

14:07

very close together, they're very compacted,

14:09

what you're trying to do is increase

14:11

their surface size. I

14:13

always think of the soil, a clear soil, very much

14:15

like a Malteser, you know, a chocolate

14:19

covering to a honeycomb center. You're

14:21

trying to increase that chocolate covering

14:23

so you've got more absorption

14:25

ability and better nutrient

14:28

retention and better structure. And

14:30

you do that with organic matter. And

14:32

it doesn't matter whether it's well-rotted compost, it's

14:35

all leaves, whatever, but organic

14:37

matter. Stay away from the sands,

14:40

you'll often need to put sand

14:41

in. A clear soil, if you, I

14:43

use the analogy

14:45

of a plant pot full of flour

14:47

and a plant pot full of marbles. And when you pour

14:50

water through the flour, it doesn't

14:52

do anything. It sits on the surface, it's very compact,

14:54

there's no air in there. There's

14:57

no penetration ability

14:59

for the roots. Yeah, on the sandy

15:01

soil,

15:01

the water just drains straight through.

15:04

There's no contact for small seeds,

15:06

it's got plenty there, but all the nutrients

15:08

drain through. What you want is an amalgamation

15:11

of the two together. And

15:13

you do that by bringing in

15:15

organic matter.

15:16

Thank you. Matt Bix,

15:18

would you dig in that organic matter or can you just

15:20

spread it and let things do the best?

15:23

Yeah, you can certainly spread it and allow the

15:25

worms to do their work. The

15:28

other thing is that I would say to you, everything

15:30

that Christine says is correct, of course, but

15:33

be careful when you go on the soil because at the moment

15:36

it's been extremely wet and if you walk

15:38

on the soil when it's wet, then

15:40

you'll actually damage the structure. And

15:42

I garden on clay soil and you find that

15:45

the soil is at its peak, at its best, when

15:47

you can go on it and it's workable. It's

15:49

actually about a week, 10 days in the spring

15:52

and probably the same again in the

15:54

autumn. So it is quite difficult to

15:56

manage it. So putting your organic

15:59

matter on. when it's not too

16:01

wet and if you are going to walk

16:03

on it then perhaps put a board down so

16:05

you put your barrow over the board and then put

16:08

the organic matter and

16:10

put a layer of about three or four inches

16:12

on and do it over time. The

16:14

other thing is that you could do is to

16:16

actually introduce some worms, you can buy some worms

16:19

so you can buy them and get them working

16:21

in the organic matter

16:23

that you've already put and the

16:25

key, just to confirm what Christine

16:27

said is well rotted organic

16:30

matter leaf mold and get

16:32

that worked in. But having said all

16:35

of that you could just put a layer over

16:37

the surface, a layer of organic matter and there's

16:39

loads of plants that survive really well.

16:42

So you instantly think of good doers

16:44

like Burberry's, Burberry's Darwinii

16:46

which was found on the island of Chillowie by

16:48

Charles Darwin is a lovely spring flowering

16:51

plant, it's evergreen,

16:54

spiny leaves, beautiful in

16:56

buds and rich orange in flowers.

16:58

The Mahonias grow well, the Mahonias

17:00

are winter flowering, the majority

17:02

of them. There's a wonderful one called Mahonia

17:05

Charity. They have wonderful multi-stems

17:08

generally with a rosette of leaves

17:11

that make them look quite primitive at the top

17:13

and then flowers in the late

17:16

winter, early spring, trees like Malus,

17:18

the Crab Apples will do well, the

17:20

sorbets and of course the king of

17:23

the clay soil really are the roses.

17:26

Roses grow so well there. So you

17:29

might want to just have a look, make

17:31

yourself a list of plants that will grow there anyway so

17:33

you've got some structure in your garden. You're never going

17:35

to go wrong by improving it with well rotted

17:38

organic matter and just have some

17:40

areas where you're growing plants that like clay

17:42

and some areas that don't and if it gets really

17:45

waterlogged the other thing you can do that people

17:47

don't often do is mound plants.

17:49

So you plant on a little bit of a mound about

17:52

20-30 centimetres high so if it does

17:54

get waterlogged then the plants don't

17:56

particularly like it so you've chosen

17:59

some that are bored. line than at least the

18:01

top bits stay dry. Okay,

18:04

thank you. Matthew Wilson, are you going to sell clay soil?

18:07

Well I've spent a lot of time gardening on clay

18:09

soils. At Hyde Hall in Essex on

18:11

alkaline clay soil where

18:14

we made a zero irrigation gravel garden

18:16

with 8,000 plants from I think 170

18:20

different species. So

18:24

you can grow sun-loving drought-tolerant plants

18:27

on clay. At Harlow Carr

18:30

I was gardening on very acid

18:32

clay and we were growing Himalayan

18:35

blue poppies, mechanopsis. So you

18:37

can grow anything on clay. The key is,

18:39

as my esteemed colleagues have explained,

18:42

improve it, go up. I would always,

18:44

I'd never bother digging anything on clay, I would

18:46

always lay it on the top because the other thing

18:48

about doing that is the more you go up, the

18:51

more you're improving the drainage because you're getting up

18:54

out of the heavy clay. And I'd always just

18:56

keep piling it on and let nature do its work.

18:59

And yeah, you are gardening on, although

19:02

it's tricky to manage initially, it

19:04

is the best soil you can go on.

19:06

Alright, thank you very much. I hope that puts your

19:08

mind at rest. It does, yes, thank you. Fantastic,

19:10

good luck with it. More questions from the Wokingham

19:13

audience soon. But we're going 400

19:15

miles north now to a newly opened

19:18

allotment garden in an unlikely

19:20

city location. Also only officially

19:23

six months old, Greyfriars Biophilic

19:26

Garden in Glasgow has quickly become a

19:28

magnet for bees, birds and

19:30

humans, earning high praise from visitors

19:33

and picking up an award or two along the way.

19:36

Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh's Kirsty Wilson

19:38

recently visited the green space for

19:40

a bit of calming community spirit.

19:45

City centre real estate comes at

19:47

a premium and money is tight for all of

19:50

us, but Glasgow City Council sees value

19:52

not just in bricks and mortar, but also in

19:54

plants and compost. A tangible

19:56

example of putting nature at the heart of a major

19:59

city is a new community garden right in the

20:01

heart of Glasgow's bustling urban centre,

20:04

literally on the High Street. Officially

20:06

opened in August 2023 is already

20:08

a cherished green asset to Glaswegian's

20:11

and the Gardens Committee Secretary Irene and

20:13

Chair Veronica join me now.

20:16

Veronica, why the name Biofilic? Well

20:18

we decided on the name Biofilic because

20:21

it's all about the love of nature, love

20:23

of life, love of nature. People

20:25

respond very well when they're close

20:27

to nature. It's good for their health and wellbeing,

20:30

it's good for their mental health and this

20:32

place is such a sensitive space. I

20:34

mean we have growing food that we can eat, it

20:37

smells lovely, there's colours everywhere,

20:39

you can hear the rustle of the cheese nearby.

20:42

In some ways it sounds out

20:44

the city. And that's essential at

20:46

the moment isn't it? So many of us are living in

20:48

urban environments. Myself, I live in a city

20:51

and that allotment was my saviour in

20:53

lockdown and you can

20:54

see how many people come and use this

20:56

at the moment. I see we're looking at a large

20:58

number of planters in this space. Well

21:00

what's on this site is a community

21:02

garden with 56 raised beds

21:05

and it's like a little green

21:08

oasis right in the heart

21:10

of the city. I think everybody in

21:12

here doesn't have a garden. This

21:14

is our garden so they might have window

21:16

pots and stuff like that but this provides people

21:19

who live in the city centre and across the road

21:21

and the dry gate with their own growing space

21:24

and it's become a joy

21:25

not just for us but for even people walking

21:27

up and if you turn around right now you'll see people stop

21:29

and look in because they're fascinated by it, they're

21:31

curious about it. Yes we can grow

21:34

as Veronica says but we can come

21:36

here in community and socialise

21:38

and come together because a lot of us like

21:40

myself live alone and I know that if I come here

21:42

I'm bound to meet somebody. And what I'm looking

21:45

at is I'm seeing a lot of edibles but and then also a lot

21:47

of flowers as well is that important? A

21:49

lot of allotments don't grow very many flowers,

21:51

they have rules about flower growing. We

21:54

don't, we can't like the flowers mainly because we're visible.

21:56

We get a lot of tourists walking past with good people overlooking

21:59

it that live in flats, it brightens

22:01

up, it's really nice, it's colourful. And did

22:03

you have any help to design this

22:05

space? Landscapers or

22:08

garden designers or did the community all come

22:10

together and plan how you wanted this

22:12

space to be? First of all we had a project with

22:14

Strachlage University and the architecture

22:16

students there and they took on as a year

22:18

project to come up with a design. The

22:21

designs were fabulous but so expensive.

22:23

But then we started working, particularly Veronica

22:26

was key to working with the council in that

22:28

transition stage. What we did was we said

22:30

to the council, look, can you point us

22:32

to another piece of land? And we were a bit sceptical

22:34

about this, this is on the high street, this traffic going up

22:36

and down. The reality is it's turned out to be a joy.

22:39

So we told them what didn't work and

22:41

we told them the kind of things we wanted to make work.

22:44

And so we didn't actually sit down with them and design

22:46

it per se but what they did was they took

22:49

all the things we said about what we wanted

22:51

in the new site, what we needed in the new site

22:54

and what we didn't want particularly.

22:54

And I see you've got like a shipping

22:57

container and storage and composting

22:59

area. We were really, really fortunate, I have

23:01

to say. Without the City Council we could never

23:03

have done this. We could never have raised the funds for a project

23:06

like this. But what they knew was that

23:08

they wanted something sustainable. They wanted something

23:10

that would last a long time and we've been told

23:12

even without treating these, these

23:14

will last 15 years before you even have to start

23:16

thinking about treating them. But the more you treat them the

23:19

longer the last. And there's a huge amount

23:21

of them here. So are we talking how many? 50 or 56?

23:24

56 into this space, yeah. My

23:27

competitive side's

23:28

coming out here so I'm going to ask, who's

23:30

got the best plot this year? Well,

23:32

I'll tell you the plot that gets the most interest

23:34

and the most wow factor. And

23:37

there's a very first plot up there and

23:39

I'm going to teach you and it's got this gigantic

23:41

cabbage that everybody

23:42

talks about. Right, let's go and

23:44

have a look around.

23:49

Wow, enormous.

23:52

That's the biggest cabbage I've ever seen.

23:56

And have they been feeding it? What have they been feeding

23:58

it?

23:59

to know what your compost is in your blasters

24:02

because that's amazing so it's what

24:04

would we say that's like 40 50 centimeters

24:07

wide and it's

24:09

a lovely purple variety that sort of purpley

24:11

blue color i think you're going to have cabbage

24:15

for months eating

24:17

that but it's enormous and

24:19

also the great brussels sprouts at the back

24:21

as well and a lovely beetroot too

24:24

i think it's hard to pick out one brilliant

24:26

garden because it's so many people put so much effort

24:29

we're very collaborative here well

24:32

and the nice thing with this cabbage is there's so much

24:34

root growth there it's you know probably gone

24:36

right deep into that blancer and it's really

24:38

happy you can see so you're treated

24:41

the most ideal growing environment so and

24:43

i would just wish it was slightly facing the street a bit more

24:46

i think people would be stopping in their

24:48

tracks people do stop you see

24:50

them and that's what attracts people

24:52

say can we come in that's the great thing about

24:54

being in the heart of the city as well and you've got all the

24:56

universities round about as well and i suppose that's

24:59

going to feed off and inspire more people got the

25:01

hostel up the road and i just love

25:03

that plot

25:03

where you know she's got a passion flower

25:05

jasmine and a vine going

25:08

over her plot i think so inventive

25:11

and what people can come up with so

25:13

hopefully it has huge benefits for years and

25:15

years to come so

25:20

gqts kirsty wilson with secretary

25:22

irene graham and chair veronica low

25:25

at gray fryer's biophilic garden in

25:28

galosco panel earlier this year

25:30

an unused laundry yard forest gate east

25:32

london won an rhs growing together

25:34

award 2023 for community gardening

25:37

um these urban green spaces are hugely

25:39

important for communities aren't they and

25:42

for nature in urban spaces as well

25:44

yeah they're important for so many uh so

25:47

many things one is that it brings people together of

25:49

all ages of different cultures they can chat

25:51

to one another it breaks down barriers so on

25:54

the social level it's really important they

25:56

can garden together they can help

25:58

one another so it's teaching them about working

26:01

together. They can brighten the area by

26:03

putting colourful flowers in there. They

26:05

can go and sit and have a coffee. We all know

26:08

the benefits of mindfulness when

26:10

it comes to gardening. They can garden

26:12

with the children and get the children involved.

26:16

And as you say Peter, the benefits for

26:18

wildlife, these inner

26:20

city gardens and the urban gardens have

26:22

such a wonderful holistic

26:25

impact. You can't have enough of them. Matthew,

26:28

an important resource in tough times as well.

26:31

Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that

26:34

we all appreciated

26:37

perhaps in greater relief

26:39

than ever through the various

26:41

lockdowns of the pandemic was that

26:44

connection with being able

26:46

to connect with the outdoors and being able

26:48

to connect with one another. Even

26:51

in the hardest times, if you've

26:54

got those two things, then

26:56

that makes such a difference to us

26:59

in terms of our mental wellbeing

27:01

and in terms of how we look at

27:03

the world. And if you can add into that the

27:05

capacity to be able to grow food, to

27:08

be able to take some of that

27:10

food and put it in your kitchen at home, brilliant.

27:13

Christine, there seems to be more and more people actually

27:15

doing this.

27:16

I think it's interesting that there's been

27:18

a move towards looking

27:21

back at what turned us on when

27:23

we were young. For an awful

27:25

lot of people, it was the outside

27:28

life. It was being out in

27:30

all weathers, engaging in

27:32

outdoor activities that really

27:34

made them feel part of their

27:37

environment. And I think for a lot

27:39

of people now, they're looking at

27:41

their children and

27:43

want them to experience that. And for a lot

27:45

of places, of course, there's nowhere to go. So

27:47

these green spaces are absolute

27:50

vital hubs to stimulate

27:52

that sort of activity. So yes, the

27:55

more the merrier and

27:57

the more people that can engage with them of

27:59

all ages.

27:59

backgrounds, cultures, social standing

28:02

and everything else the better.

28:05

You're listening to Garner's Question Time on

28:07

Radio 4 and BBC Sounds with me Peter

28:09

Gibbs. On the panel today are Matthew Wilson,

28:11

Christine Wharton and Matt Biggs who are taking

28:13

questions from our audience here in

28:16

Wokingham. And who has our next question

28:18

please. Hello, Jeremy Best, Wokingham

28:20

Horticultural Association and an allotment

28:22

holder at Ormond Road allotments. This

28:26

year there has been a huge increase in

28:28

the number of molehills on the allotments.

28:31

Whilst the soil thrown up looks to

28:33

be fine for spreading on the allotments, I

28:36

have heard in the past that sometimes this is

28:38

perhaps not the case. Can

28:40

the panel comment as to whether the use of

28:42

molehill soil is a good idea?

28:45

Has you ever been given a reason why

28:47

it might not be a good thing? I understand because

28:49

it comes from deeper down that

28:52

it hasn't got the nutrients that perhaps

28:54

would be on the surface and also because

28:56

of what moles might do

28:59

to the soil themselves. OK. Christine,

29:01

what do you think? It always looks lovely stuff

29:04

doesn't it? It always

29:04

is. And normally it is. But

29:07

for it to be of any value

29:08

you need hoards and hoards

29:10

of moles of course because

29:11

you know one molehills you're going

29:13

to fill one pot or whatever and you know six

29:16

square inches of soil. So yes,

29:18

I mean I've never heard it being

29:21

described in derisory terms but

29:23

you are correct if it comes from down below

29:25

and depending on the depth of the subsoil

29:28

will be influenced what's brought up.

29:31

It could not be as rich as topsoil

29:33

but normally the structure is good and I mean

29:36

historically people have said collect it and use

29:38

it so but I think you need

29:40

an awful lot for it to be

29:42

of any practical

29:43

use. I can assure you there's an awful lot on

29:45

the allotment beds. Is

29:48

it actually in the allotment beds and the sort

29:50

of paths round the house? No it tends to be under the paths

29:53

not where the plants are growing but on the

29:55

grass. I guess Matthew because the

29:58

soil is not compact enough on the bed. beds so

30:00

they can't make their tunnels, would that be? Could

30:02

be. Yeah, I mean, moles in my garden

30:04

always appear where I least want them. So,

30:07

but you know, to be honest, with

30:10

all of these things, I just, I

30:12

can't be bothered to do anything about it. I like moles.

30:15

I had a cuddle with a mole actually quite recently.

30:18

It was meandering across my lawn.

30:20

I thought I'd better get to it before the dogs got interested.

30:24

Lefty thing. You know, they're so, gentlemen,

30:26

involved in coats. Yes, lovely. Anyway, what

30:28

you might want to think about is collecting some of that

30:31

mole soil and mixing

30:33

it with some well-rotted organic matter and making

30:35

a really, really lovely compost or a mulch from

30:37

it. That would be great. Actually, Matthew, that's what the Victorians

30:39

did, didn't they? When they were making up their own recipes

30:42

for compost, they would take

30:44

mole soil because it was very friable

30:47

and add well-rotted leaf mold or cow

30:49

manure or whatever it was for their own recipes.

30:52

So in the past, it's been used very successfully.

30:54

Sounds like you can carry on, Jeremy. Thank

30:56

you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank

30:58

you for your question. And let's take

31:01

one over here. Hello. I'm Nick Campbell-White

31:03

from Woking Mimbloom. I

31:05

have a problem with my perpetual beet

31:08

spinach.

31:09

I have serious blotches

31:12

on the leaves. Not all

31:14

leaves, just occasional leaves, and

31:17

sometimes on the outside and

31:19

on the new leaves. And if

31:22

the plant is affected with the

31:24

odd blotch, not all leaves are

31:26

affected.

31:28

What is this disease? I've brought

31:30

you samples

31:31

here to look at, but they're

31:34

the best I could find because the pigeons have pretty

31:36

well got through the rest of my spinach. Doesn't

31:39

sound very perpetual, does it really? Anybody

31:43

recognize what's going on there, panel?

31:44

I think this is a bacterial

31:46

problem called FOMA. FOMAs

31:49

are numerous diseases that tend

31:51

to favour, they will go onto

31:53

all the species of beet, but tend

31:56

to favour the

31:57

beetroot family.

31:58

It's a bacterial plant.

31:59

problem and

32:00

as far as the amateur is

32:02

concerned there's nothing on the market apart

32:05

from picking it

32:06

off as soon as you see it. Oh charming.

32:08

Well you know I'm sorry

32:09

but that's where it

32:11

is. Various allotment holders

32:14

historically used to use bicarbonate of

32:16

soda and it was a table

32:18

full full of bicarbonate soda into

32:20

and it was a gallon of water. Some

32:22

people swore by it and other people

32:25

said it did. Sweet, Fanny, Adam. I

32:27

think it's up to you. I mean my experience

32:30

of Foma commercial is it's a very difficult

32:32

problem to control. Normally

32:35

associated with damper back

32:37

ends or damp autumns but

32:39

it can in fact be a real problem

32:42

in a hot July for some reason and

32:44

whether it's the moisture that's congregating around the

32:46

leaves because it's growing so quickly

32:49

and you get a moist atmosphere I don't know but

32:51

it can be absolutely bone-dry aerially

32:54

and the plant can show symptoms

32:56

of it. How long has it been a problem for?

32:58

How many years? Certainly

33:01

the last four years possibly long. I think

33:03

you probably want to have a break from growing perpetual

33:05

spinach.

33:07

That's a good idea. My

33:09

wife might not be so pleased. I mean

33:12

there's lots of other things that you can grow but

33:14

if it's a persistent problem that's coming back

33:17

and there's nothing on the market that you can apply

33:19

then I think in all of these situations

33:22

it's better just to have a break from something and

33:25

give it a couple of years and then you could try it again or

33:28

by that time you may have decided that you're over your

33:30

perpetual spinach and you're fully

33:33

in love with Swiss

33:35

chard or you know bubble sprouting broccoli.

33:37

It happens to come on that as well. The other thing

33:40

I would say is if you like

33:45

that is to actually increase

33:47

the spacing between the

33:50

plants so that you get better

33:52

airflow that might

33:54

help.

33:55

Is it something that will stay in the soil or is it

33:57

coming in on the breeze as it works?

33:59

normally on the breeze. Yeah. Yeah.

34:03

I think you need to have a break from growing perpetual spinach. Well

34:06

the change is as good as the rest they say. I'll

34:08

give it a miss for a couple of years. I'll

34:10

come back to you after that time. Yeah.

34:12

Thanks Nick. And let's

34:14

take one over here. My

34:15

name is Cheryl Aldridge

34:17

and I'm a novice gardener, new

34:20

to Wokenham and we've got

34:23

a small courtyard garden and we're

34:25

looking for a the best tree

34:27

to have in the garden but it would need

34:29

to be in a pot. So I'm looking for seasonal

34:32

interest. It would be amazing to track

34:34

any wildlife at all. Okay.

34:35

Yeah. So that's

34:38

your advice on that please. Well

34:40

let's hand you over to designer Matthew

34:42

Wilson. So when you say small we always

34:44

have to caveat this because small for one

34:47

person might be in rolling acres

34:49

for somebody else. So how small

34:51

is your small courtyard garden?

34:53

It is about 12

34:55

to 15 feet

34:58

wide. Sorry

35:01

length and then about

35:03

six foot

35:05

wide. Yeah so it's

35:07

small. And sunny,

35:10

shady,

35:11

southwest facing

35:14

but we are walled at the back. We're pretty much surrounded.

35:17

Yeah but the wall is probably

35:20

just below six

35:21

foot. Okay. I'm hoping

35:23

to get a little bit above that.

35:26

Yeah.

35:26

And how big

35:28

a pot could you accommodate? Because

35:31

the thing with putting anything in a pot is

35:34

well what's the most famous pot

35:37

you can think of? I'll give you a clue. Yep.

35:39

Bonsai. Okay. Because it's the

35:41

pot that is bonsai. It's not the tree,

35:44

it's the pot. The tray is

35:47

bonsai. Right. What's in it is

35:49

various things in various styles but

35:51

that bit of pottery is

35:53

the thing that's called the bonsai. So

35:56

it's good to get that one out there. How many people knew

35:58

that? own.

36:02

So whenever

36:04

we put things in pots that want to be

36:07

bigger than the pot will allow them. They are naturally

36:10

reduced in vigor and everything else.

36:12

So in a way, that's not a bad thing for you.

36:14

You've got a relatively small space and

36:16

you want to plant something that is going to

36:19

stay relatively small. That's pretty

36:21

positive really. But

36:24

for the health of the plant, you want to try and

36:27

have a good sized pot with

36:29

decent depth that you can actually put soil

36:31

in because it's going to be in that soil

36:34

forever.

36:35

You're not going to hoik it out and repot

36:37

it if it's a tree. It's going to stay in there

36:39

forever. So you want

36:42

to have a decent sized pot, ideally terracotta

36:44

or wood, not plastic because plastic

36:46

that you know, warms and heats

36:49

up and cools down too

36:51

quickly. Terracotta is more stable. I would go

36:53

for that. And I

36:55

would have some kind of little

36:59

simple irrigation system if you can, little

37:01

drip irrigation system that you can also add

37:04

liquid feed in because you've got to provide everything

37:07

to that tree. It's going to be your own

37:09

little baby bird in the nest

37:11

and you're going to have to bring it everything that it wants

37:14

because you're not going to get any help. And now she thinks, she

37:16

thinks, when is he going to finally actually

37:18

say a tree?

37:21

All this time he's been spawning. I mean,

37:24

there's lots. I would

37:26

say one of my favorite small

37:29

trees, compact trees would be solvus cashmereensis,

37:32

which has white berries,

37:35

graceful pinake foliage, good

37:37

autumn color, lovely thing. And

37:41

that would probably be okay. Not particularly

37:43

long lived tree, but to be honest, that doesn't

37:45

really matter for your situation because you'll

37:47

certainly get 30, 40 years

37:50

out of it. So yeah.

37:52

Thank you. Krista?

37:54

I would have a look at some of the flowering crabs

37:57

and some of the newer flowering crabs are quite

37:59

small.

37:59

The other thing that

38:00

I've got... That's crab apple. Yes, sorry, a crab apple.

38:03

Yes, yes. So thank you. Yes.

38:06

Not one of those with legs that keep around you and they go between

38:08

slices of bread, no. See?

38:11

Matt's going to recommend a fruiting lobster, Nick. Three

38:14

answers. Yes. Quite.

38:17

Yes, yes. Very quick. Good.

38:20

Yes. The smaller firing

38:22

crabs, apples, and

38:24

the other thing that will sound mad but it works remarkably

38:27

well is ginkgo biloba, the

38:29

maiden surgery. And I've got one

38:31

in a... It's only a 12 inch, 12 inch by 12 inch

38:33

by 12 inch, and it's been in there a long

38:36

time.

38:36

And I think there is a dwarf form. And there are

38:38

dwarf forms of ginkgo, there are several now. So,

38:41

and the awesome colour, it turns a most

38:43

beautiful butter cup and rich

38:46

yellow. And I've got mine...

38:48

I actually chopped it off when it was young and I've multi-stended

38:51

it. So I've got it like a sort of a spire

38:54

and it looks superb.

38:55

Well, that would be my choice. The only thing I

38:57

would say against ginkgo biloba is the female

39:00

form. It's not going to flippie

39:02

well through. Did you keep chopping it down? Oh

39:04

right, okay. But can I at least explain

39:07

why?

39:07

Yeah, but it doesn't get that big and that would

39:09

be a big tree, mate. It would, yes. And

39:11

it's old when it becomes sexually active anyway.

39:13

Oh, great. Right.

39:16

Were you to allow it to become sexually active?

39:19

Go on. Just take a turn.

39:24

An unexpected turn. Well,

39:27

not that unexpected. No, no, no. Not

39:29

for this program. No, no, no, quite right. The

39:32

fruit has a rather unfortunate

39:35

fragrance when it's fallen

39:37

and it starts to break down. And if you go down Charlotte

39:40

Street in London's glitzy West End

39:42

where it's full of theatrical agents or used

39:44

to be anyway and advertising

39:47

agencies and everything else, in autumn

39:50

it stinks of vomit. But

39:53

not because of vomit, but because they planted

39:55

it with ginkgo biloba and they're all female.

39:58

Well, you're the talking call. We'll never get there. But

40:01

it's a nice way to bring the story in. Matt,

40:04

go on. I love this, but it's out of fashion.

40:07

But it's a lovely old flowering

40:09

cherry, which is fastidiate, vertical.

40:12

It's one called a managawa. And it reminds

40:14

me of home. My mum had one at home, and it's lovely.

40:17

Pink blossom in the spring, very vertical

40:19

in growth, gets up to be about 20 foot tall. But

40:22

the autumn colour's nice, too. It

40:25

won't create a lot of shade. I did

40:27

wonder, because of where you are, and it's

40:29

in a courtyard, whether you had myrtus

40:32

luma, or

40:34

what's now known as luma epiculata, which

40:37

is an evergreen which has white flowers and

40:40

attractive stems. Then sidestep

40:42

the problem, perhaps, and grow

40:45

wisteria, then twine it round

40:47

a pole. So it looks like a tree, but

40:49

it isn't. And there's a nice one that flowers

40:51

sort of mid to late May called

40:55

St. Lawrence, which

40:57

is a mid mauve. Or you could do a similar

40:59

thing with

40:59

a clematis. There's another one

41:02

called Catalpa Arabescens perpirea. This

41:05

is what happens when Matt has too much time to

41:07

think about an armpit. He's got onto the other hand.

41:11

He's got a lot of choosing to do. I

41:13

have, absolutely. You need half a dozen

41:15

pots, at least, I think. But

41:17

always great to hear from a novice gardener starting out on the journey. Thank

41:20

you. I hope you get great joy from him. Thank you

41:22

very much. Thanks for your question. If

41:25

you'd like to get in touch with us, with your questions, observations

41:28

and feedback, just

41:29

email us on gqt at bbc.co.uk or

41:33

you can find us on Twitter at bbcgqp.

41:37

Well,

41:37

it's time for us to set seed here in Wokiam.

41:40

Thanks for joining us. Thank you

41:42

to our wonderful audience, to our questioners and

41:44

to our hosts, Wokiam Horticultural Association.

41:47

Do join us next week when we'll

41:49

be exploring Cambridge Botanic Garden. But

41:52

until then, from me, Peter Gibbs, the panel,

41:54

Matthew Wilson, Kristian Wharton and Matt Biggs

41:56

and all the GQT team, goodbye

41:59

and may the weather... be with you.