0:04

wired dot com present

0:09

the geek's guide to the

0:11

galaxy and

0:14

here is your host barclay

0:18

hello,

0:19

and welcome to episode 518

0:22

of geek's guide to the galaxy i'm

0:24

david barr currently author of

0:26

the book save me please and other stories which

0:29

is available now on amazon dot com we had a great conversation about the

0:33

the book back in episode 500, so

0:35

definitely check if you missed it and

0:38

some want give a special thank to customer

0:40

who gave book a of five

0:42

star review on amazon dot com says

0:45

superb thought-provoking entertaining

0:48

short story collection, collection solid

0:50

enjoyable science fiction fantasy

0:53

and horror short story collection enjoy

0:55

each and every story it's hard

0:57

to pick favorites but to particular

0:59

america the second rat power armor

1:01

second rat story and they go bomb all

1:04

have slightly slanted views as million topics

1:07

all linger pleasingly in the mines excellent

1:09

short story collection it's

1:11

a big thanks against the amazon customer for

1:14

that great review there's

1:16

or guess today is emery emery he

1:18

edited the popular comedy documentary

1:20

the aristocrats and is also

1:22

works as an editor and producer on other documentaries

1:25

such as heckler with jamie kennedy

1:27

the green room with paul prevents a and

1:30

play dead featuring seller from penn

1:32

and teller emrys also

1:34

an accomplice stand up comedian who's

1:36

comedy cd the purveyor of filth has

1:38

been called everything from brilliance twisted ramblings

1:41

to the six grandsons of an obviously

1:43

sociopathic malcontent he's

1:46

also an outspoken atheist and skeptic

1:48

and together with his partner heather henderson she

1:50

wants the long running podcast the ardent atheist

1:53

and skeptical yours and

1:55

in this interview will be discussing his new documentary

1:57

science fiction about scientists

1:59

the tv interviews about their research only

2:02

to discover to their horror that the interviews have

2:04

been edited to make edited look like the scientists are

2:06

promoting friends ideas such ideas you oppose

2:09

wake monsters answered lances and

2:11

now she's or interview with emery emery

2:15

the rates are we here with every every welcome to the show

2:18

thank you very much david the

2:20

case you new movies called science fiction

2:23

so had that come about

2:24

what i'm the producer

2:26

i had an idea to or go

2:29

record a bunch of scientist so we could talk

2:31

about how science is

2:33

represented or of their science is represented

2:35

in the media and

2:38

he had he knew my work on

2:40

many other things under he wanted

2:42

me to do it and i

2:44

loved the idea i think that we have

2:46

a major problem with what the media

2:48

does was science and i

2:50

was on board instantly

2:52

that's brian dunning read the producer that's

2:55

the guy it's

2:57

actually i'm actually a big fan of his gets would podcasts

2:59

and actually he was the fifth guess that i ever

3:01

interviewed on it's got to the galaxy

3:04

yeah i love his podcast i

3:07

i think i did he does some of the best

3:09

work

3:11

with regard

3:11

to correcting misinformation

3:14

in december make nothing so

3:16

how did you know how did you meet him in the first one

3:18

the skeptic community you know i you stop do

3:21

a couple of podcasts atheists are called

3:23

cast in a skeptic podcasts and

3:26

i'd had him on

3:28

i knew him personally use live here in l a area

3:31

who's don't nord felony at one point under

3:33

yeah i knew him personally we were we've been friends

3:35

for many years so how

3:37

did you start how did you get involved in the skeptic

3:40

community in the first place well

3:42

are it really was the easiest thing that

3:44

kicked me off i started off podcast

3:46

called the ardent atheist i

3:48

wanted to talk about religion

3:51

and how awful and evil religion

3:53

is and you

3:55

know how if we don't if if religion goes

3:57

unchecked they will one by one

3:59

strip away all of our rights and you

4:02

know turn us into a surreal law kind

4:04

of state

4:06

looks like i was right about that and

4:09

nothing we can do to stop it even

4:11

voting doesn't seem to help but

4:14

i started with ardent atheist and

4:16

hour and then i wanted to do a separate

4:18

podcast where we didn't focus on the religion

4:20

we just focused on misinformation and lies

4:22

and so we started skeptical yours and

4:25

are that was it the atheism

4:27

thing i've been

4:28

been barrier

4:31

argued about humor most

4:33

most my life you want someone i'm

4:35

polyamorous i'm bisexual and

4:39

i'm an atheist and i just

4:41

knew i just i could see that

4:43

that the world doesn't

4:46

accept a different

4:48

kinds of thinking farm

4:51

and the united states definitely

4:54

needs some more

4:55

the wake up calls with regard to that somebody

4:57

mine is on america's got

4:59

talent right now is polly emerson they they

5:02

did a little package explaining that is

5:04

polyamorous and

5:06

the

5:07

the the the messages the people

5:09

leave on facebook is where i saw

5:11

it were heinous pure

5:13

hate purely

5:15

because he's polyamorous

5:17

it's just sickening

5:19

so

5:21

these things are jerk very important to me

5:23

and that's why i got into

5:26

yeah i just explained if you're listening to this in the

5:28

future were recording this the road

5:30

persuade was just revealed by the supreme

5:32

court says

5:33

forty eight hours ago so that's a no one's

5:35

gonna be listening to this in the future we have no

5:37

future

5:38

i used

5:41

as that i mean so one

5:43

focus is you done these some

5:45

you podcast the atheist one of the skeptic

5:47

when did you one of them you did with set or

5:49

maybe both with heather henderson yeah

5:52

yeah my partner will have to get a see

5:54

, she's my live in partner

5:56

and yeah we get together she's

5:59

a great town

6:00

so how did you to sort of get to know each other

6:04

i was commenting on pendula

6:06

let's a twitter and facebook

6:09

accounts and she was friends with pendula

6:11

she lived at the time over in philadelphia

6:14

i'm actually at that point that point jersey and

6:16

or the i decided

6:19

to host the

6:21

a whole month everyday i posted

6:23

something true and awful

6:26

about mother teresa and

6:29

a apparently that made

6:31

her panties wet and a she

6:34

reached out to me and started flirting with me

6:36

i'll never forget one night we were we were chatting

6:38

for months and then one night she goes a she's

6:41

definitely flirting she was definitely hitting on me and

6:43

i said i i listen i appreciate

6:45

you flirting with me that's nice but

6:47

i live in a way you know i'm interested in

6:49

people who live near me she

6:51

goes on

6:53

i'm planning to move to l a and a month and

6:56

i said what are you wearing law

6:58

that was our relationship

7:01

sosa would just so and how long

7:03

did you do those those to forecast for

7:06

for five years

7:08

could you have you have no memory like

7:11

a memorable moments that stick out from

7:13

from doing this podcast

7:14

oh my god we did so many

7:17

it's so hard to answer that question arm

7:19

and it's been so long and i women done them

7:22

in for five years now

7:25

my you know that we had so many

7:27

great interviews on

7:29

that podcast but one of my favorites i suppose

7:31

one was when we were at

7:33

tam which is i remember what champs

7:35

stance works the amazing movie thank

7:38

you i'm pam are

7:40

in vegas and we got the opportunity

7:43

to interview neil de grasse tyson

7:47

and all i can tell

7:49

you about that interview that i remember for

7:51

for was just amazing to be in the same room

7:54

with with tyson the coast to the

7:56

fisa

7:57

these are heavy weight and hence the name

7:59

i presume

8:00

and

8:01

it was amazing to be in the room with him but we

8:04

got him and i don't remember

8:07

i don't remember the circumstances your

8:09

i would share with you but we got him to say

8:11

the f word and that's not easy the

8:16

did you ever have any one with

8:18

since your podcast and say you

8:21

yeah i changed my mind about

8:23

oh yeah would sooner stuff and i

8:25

mean mostly what we had was

8:27

people who around the

8:29

country and around the world who were

8:32

in the closet about their atheism and

8:35

the day that the most common email

8:37

we got was a thank you for this sense

8:39

of community that you're offering that

8:41

was that was the big ones but we

8:43

absolutely had people right

8:46

into us and say you open my

8:48

eyes i wouldn't read the book that was

8:50

the thing a bitter thing beat the drum of you

8:52

know reading

8:54

the book is the best way

8:57

to become an atheist

8:59

it will make you an atheist if you'd have little

9:01

i will read the book or yeah the bible if

9:03

you read the bible that's what will make

9:05

you an atheist if you sit in a pew

9:08

and you let some jag off tell

9:10

you what to think based

9:12

on the bible

9:14

you don't know what you're doing you're

9:16

you're you're taking one man's word

9:18

for what the bible says and means but

9:20

if you read the bible yourself you'll find that

9:22

it's chock full

9:24

the

9:25

just horrific advice it's

9:27

chock full

9:29

oh contradictory claims

9:31

it's absolutely insane when

9:34

you genuinely read the bible

9:36

the bible thumpers or

9:39

the problem the the trumpet the

9:41

the need to actually read it

9:43

so did you have any sort of noteworthy run

9:45

ins with are people who strongly disagreed

9:47

with you

9:49

the biggest one i had was with an old comedy

9:51

friend

9:52

and he came on the show

9:55

and he wanted to argue against homosexuals

9:58

lifestyle

9:59

and

10:01

at one point

10:03

the actually gave us the slippery

10:05

slope argument you know what's next

10:08

and that sort of thing

10:09

van der

10:10

and i remember really calling him

10:12

out on the logic of of

10:15

of that argument farm

10:18

are you like i said first of all your you're

10:20

suggesting that because

10:22

someone's homosexual they would wanna

10:25

have sex with a dog and that's

10:27

fundamentally

10:28

the lawn or it's it's logically

10:31

completely bankrupt there's nothing

10:33

in there are in that idea

10:35

that holds any real water and

10:37

he has any value and you're you're

10:39

literally know you're you're you're making

10:41

these people into animals you lowering

10:44

them to animals and that isn't

10:47

the accurate it's also not christian

10:49

his response was

10:51

well listen i'll i don't know

10:53

the best arguments you do this for

10:56

a living all i know is how i feel

10:58

and unlikely and

11:00

a or i lost a friend to that argument

11:02

really really soft

11:05

the

11:06

i was ready for all of his is talking

11:08

points and

11:11

and i lost a friend to it but

11:14

good riddance

11:16

the next to the yeah i'm

11:18

but i mean it's interesting because you know i do podcasting

11:21

professionally now i do a science fiction podcast

11:23

but we talk a lot about skepticism

11:25

and atheism sometimes and it was

11:27

really the atheists podcast the really got me into podcast

11:30

and you know back around two thousand and five or so

11:32

like as to listen to lot of the bible

11:34

to eat in and stuff like that

11:36

and on the and steps away at and

11:39

ah you know really ah lot to those them

11:41

the deity a skeptic or parker

11:44

yeah but the best thing

11:46

that ever happened to ardent atheist

11:48

was we won

11:50

the ward

11:52

the or it was podcast award

11:55

i'm i'm walking over to grab

11:57

that awards so i can get it right

11:59

here

11:59

this award was

12:02

ah

12:03

when he twelve podcast awards farm

12:06

religion and inspiration

12:08

was the category

12:10

he

12:11

and and boy that really upset

12:13

a lot of people see that an atheist

12:16

podcast one the

12:18

religious inspiration

12:20

the war

12:21

the

12:22

the worst part of it is they spilled atheist

12:24

a t h i v s

12:29

why we're so used to so great

12:32

for me when the when i discovered the if

12:34

his podcast because you know because i was an atheist my whole

12:36

life in some is just never anything on

12:38

t v or year in the newspaper

12:40

anything about it you know and so on the

12:43

with i go here sign finally stuff i agree with

12:45

that a you know that

12:47

is on somebody made a show for me

12:49

the

12:51

yeah the up the eighties podcasts

12:53

important podcasts important because when you

12:55

i look at what you just said you said you

12:58

your whole life so you already been raised in any

13:00

religious belief at all as i write

13:02

that's correct you my parents are both scientists

13:04

and so and they're both atheists in they sort of were kind

13:06

of cagey about it when i was a kid you know they

13:08

didn't say they're be to say like over whether you

13:10

believe you know but i'm but

13:12

as i never have but i never

13:14

religion always seems like it didn't

13:16

really make it make sense at all to me sir

13:18

michael

13:20

yeah that's because it doesn't mean

13:24

it's funny though because i did as a kid i did we have been

13:26

like fig saw it in the loch ness monster and

13:28

santa claus and you ever ducks in

13:30

like i wasn't all that stuff ah

13:32

so are you know it's not like i was completely

13:35

you know rash you know how to completely rational

13:38

scientific outlook gun or atheism

13:40

is only one point on

13:42

which are skeptical mind

13:45

the find reality

13:48

or the true the every single

13:50

other claim

13:52

this a different on

13:54

discipline that needs to be investigated

13:57

individual that us those all of it's

14:00

and ah that's a lot of work but

14:02

i did you talk to your parents were

14:04

very scientifically minded about big

14:06

foot and one additional of those other

14:09

things that you believe that are so

14:11

like it was funny because we actually did a unit

14:13

in school on the loch ness monster and

14:16

i remember telling my parents about that in there just

14:18

like was no room

14:20

that for the thing is like they both

14:22

worked really long hours and so

14:25

i was to a significant degree i was

14:27

raised you know by television

14:29

nice i to the ones so much tv

14:31

and all the tv shows were all like about you

14:34

have abductions and all the stars and so

14:36

i just sort of you know and i was gonna like was

14:38

it on t v it must be

14:40

though you know they wouldn't

14:42

all these people seem like experts and stuff you know

14:44

it's oh so obviously the sort of

14:46

those into science fiction you know but absolutely

14:48

i was one of those people you know where i

14:50

just the up late at night watching you

14:52

fo ducks and so isn't that

14:55

was having was bigger influence on me than the

14:57

my parents probably

14:58

the psychics get you i

15:01

don't i don't remember ever breathing

15:03

and psychics particularly

15:06

the average maybe a little bit but but were you

15:08

i did you ever gleeson are you have abduction

15:11

or bigfoot earning that so

15:12

i believed in you ufos

15:16

and

15:17

like

15:18

your average person i presume you

15:21

ufos meant you know the aliens

15:23

flying them

15:25

i never really have anybody

15:27

to to give me any

15:29

information

15:30

i was younger that would help me

15:33

the gate those kinds of absurd stupidities

15:35

butter you

15:37

know once i became atheist then i became

15:39

very skeptical of kind of everything

15:42

and especially the lies i

15:44

was told as a kid you know that

15:47

was that was a big thing i

15:49

have that that really woke me up a i am

15:51

for made me realize i was raised by

15:53

idiots people who just didn't know

15:55

reality

15:57

properly you know and

16:00

like i'm gonna

16:02

i guess the only good thing my

16:05

absentee father ever said

16:07

to me that that really planted a good

16:09

the positive seed was he said when he

16:11

was a kid you know his mother would

16:13

say eat the crust it's where all the nutrients

16:15

are

16:16

and

16:17

then he said

16:19

of course that's bullshit

16:21

that eating

16:22

the the crust is the part part of the bread

16:25

that's know the additional logic

16:27

and that so that that

16:29

a really nice seed

16:32

the and the source sort

16:34

so i started really trying to think

16:37

from that perspective of all of

16:39

these things i've been told by by

16:41

family members who raised me all of

16:43

them need to be questioned and

16:45

i started know what's the internet became available

16:47

in the nineties i started really looking that

16:50

at these things i always wished i had

16:52

this almost antisocial

16:54

nature whereas if i was told

16:57

i had to do a thing a certain way

17:00

something some wiring in

17:02

me said why no i don't think that's

17:04

true he gets accurate discovered

17:06

be a better way so i'm

17:09

pretty fortunate in the way i was wire the

17:12

i was able to break out of just

17:15

bad thinking pittsburgh

17:17

so the religion i was kind of the first domino to fall

17:19

within once that solve the rest of an arcana

17:22

came down after another yeah yeah i

17:24

was very inquisitive and and you know once

17:27

i had internet i mean there was a time when i go

17:29

to the library and i would look things up to see if

17:31

something

17:32

that i was told that didn't seem to make sense was

17:34

true

17:36

but that you're that that requires a lot

17:38

more time personal time

17:40

to invest to figure out the answer so i

17:43

wouldn't until the internet came along i was able to

17:45

really

17:46

the die vn and an

17:48

answer questions in a more

17:50

real time data that

17:52

my life started to turn around but yeah the

17:54

atheism started me off ah

17:56

and the skepticism followed in them

17:59

one by one i would

17:59

not down each one of these pillars

18:02

of ignorance i mean our i think

18:04

a big part of it for me to is that is was so into science

18:07

fiction and at some point you know in my

18:09

teens in became aware that

18:11

the u f o absorption stuff was

18:13

the viewed with contempt by the serious

18:16

science fiction writers you know that it's just you

18:18

know from a science fiction standpoint doesn't really make

18:21

any sense like why would you

18:23

would you when you just think about how much the

18:26

resources it would take to mountain

18:28

interstellar expedition i

18:30

would you do that just a cruise around

18:33

me upper atmosphere

18:34

occasionally and we probing some

18:37

you know like it just like what is the return

18:40

, investment of that sort of thing and

18:42

you know the other they do they want to be detected

18:44

or nine if they do why don't they just talk

18:47

to people and if they don't know they have spy satellites

18:49

and stuff like that where they could remain you

18:53

know unknown i mean that it like like why

18:55

the sort of weird it'll grounds

18:57

were there to sort of cruising around the upper atmosphere just

18:59

all that stuff from a science fiction standpoint

19:01

just doesn't make any sense that will when you

19:03

understand the science of the universe the

19:06

than than the whole concept

19:08

of

19:09

the album

19:10

aliens making it to our planet

19:12

far it doesn't make any sense that they would

19:15

come here to make crop circles or to abduct

19:17

people and shove stuff up our butts it just

19:19

doesn't make any sense at all on

19:22

what makes more sense is

19:24

that massive

19:27

numbers of ships would come here and

19:30

try to destroy us so that they could have this

19:32

livable are such that's what makes more

19:34

sense or hockey

19:38

he

19:39

the put up a red flag for all of us saying

19:41

we need to be careful what we're doing might be inviting

19:44

annihilation and i think is right

19:46

is think that's the most logical way

19:48

that we're gonna encounter

19:50

the other life to to to

19:53

real possibility to me they're pretty equal

19:56

is a forces of desolation

19:59

comes

19:59

or a scientific

20:02

the

20:04

the scientific approach arrives to

20:06

say hey we've been looking for

20:08

life i'm which found your farm

20:11

what we just keep you don't

20:13

we just want to see how it works here

20:15

and

20:17

those are those the to scientific or

20:20

or attack

20:22

you can i think our first encounter

20:24

by the way if we ever have one i think

20:26

it's unlikely were within a hammer first encounter ever

20:29

i don't think us the only way we're going to have a first

20:31

encounter is if we figure out

20:33

how to thought shed

20:35

these bodies that the

20:37

waste away and under eighty years

20:41

and far we can put our consciousness

20:43

and something that can be maintained

20:45

in definitely farm and

20:47

then we can travel across the

20:49

the stars for millions of views are billions of

20:52

years find other life or vice versa

20:54

that's that you know when it wouldn't when lived

20:56

arrives the it's most likely

20:58

going to be in the form machinery

21:01

yeah yeah i agree that or or like very heavily

21:04

genetically engineered to survive

21:06

in you know i suppose i mean

21:09

you know the promise of blasting life

21:11

in these little need bags were in seems

21:13

really tenuous to me

21:17

yeah

21:17

then i agree on

21:18

the i kept my the most likely yeah

21:21

and i was i was existential he thinking just

21:23

the other day how

21:25

why i how do we have we have an expiration

21:28

date

21:29

how can we live as long as we do

21:32

fifty sixty seventy eight years

21:34

n and regenerate

21:36

the ourselves

21:39

you know or our bodies change an extra

21:41

money you so so dramatically that

21:43

we're not even what we originally word

21:46

the house

21:47

how's it has to expire at this particular

21:50

point that that kind of that one's

21:52

got me baffled that so i think about that

21:54

a lot

21:56

the i just think from an evolutionary standpoint

21:58

once you're once you've procreated the

22:01

evolution doesn't really go past that

22:04

you know concern you know

22:06

what turtles and live for hundreds of years

22:08

sharks to live for hundreds of years hundred

22:13

you know so better

22:15

at the outside i suppose with a cigarette huddled

22:17

a the thousand plus years

22:20

but not not indebted

22:22

not long enough to travel to traverse

22:24

the stars and and

22:27

and meet up with another batch of living

22:29

beings just doesn't make sense

22:31

yeah

22:33

the should recruit the turtles they're

22:35

the ones who are going to have to have to do it for us

22:38

right

22:40

i'm sorry but so so so brian's

22:42

on and comes to you and says i've got this

22:44

great idea for a documentary

22:47

science fiction and then tunnel like what happens

22:49

from there

22:51

he did a fundraiser and

22:53

we went to shoot i mean that really is older

22:55

as to tell you we raised he raised

22:57

the money and i just started

22:59

going out and taking cameras with

23:01

book though when my

23:04

editor and my camera genius and

23:07

we went out there and start shooting interviews

23:09

and put never put next old

23:11

again

23:13

so in a movie where non when you see like

23:15

richard dawkins or michael shermer

23:18

you are what you were sitting there with them talking to them

23:20

that we went south

23:24

the had you met had you met them before was that like

23:26

a big thrill meeting people that yeah

23:28

i met them years ago at tam and things

23:30

like that you know we would be invited

23:33

to go do or podcasts and various

23:35

conventions saga to meet these folks a lot

23:39

so so i guess we we said right

23:41

there so the premise of the documentary is that you

23:43

have all these scientists and

23:46

the tv show will come to them and say

23:48

we'd like to

23:49

interview you cause you're an expert and they say

23:51

grade and then they do an interview and

23:54

it all seems great and then the show

23:56

comes out and it turns out to be

23:58

it's an alien

23:59

there

24:01

you know it is is promoting some

24:03

real pseudoscientific saying that

24:05

they

24:06

they don't believe what they're sort of very deceptive

24:08

we added syria

24:10

the make it seem like they are predictably

24:13

as an ancient aliens earth quake monster

24:15

as are are all this kind of stuff yeah i

24:17

would say

24:19

i would say probably everybody

24:21

we

24:24

everybody we talked about in

24:26

terms of productions i would

24:28

say that

24:29

the

24:30

at least ninety five percent of those

24:32

folks making that stuff knew

24:35

they were making allies

24:37

that's what i think i think they don't care

24:40

they don't my old farm

24:42

in high regard the true

24:45

they hold in high regard the

24:47

money they earn from selling these

24:49

lies and that's what matters to them they're

24:51

not doing the world a favor by

24:54

by convincing people abuse

24:56

or of these myths

24:58

as possible true it's it's it's

25:01

signal why we made the film yeah

25:03

yeah very clear watching the movie that that

25:05

this is not happening by accidents i mean and

25:07

it's like shows like animal planet

25:09

and shark week you know that you

25:11

would think if your kids watching it your i got this is

25:13

educational you know and then they're

25:16

axes the encoded mermaid to real

25:18

and and stuff like that yeah

25:21

that's insane the

25:24

best thing your parents could have done when

25:26

they set you in front of a t v his agenda

25:28

extra to let that think raise you wish to say

25:31

ninety nine percent of what you're watching on that

25:33

television is fiction if you wanna know the truth

25:35

com ask us

25:36

that's the best thing parents can do if

25:38

they're gonna let their kids sit in front of the t v

25:40

or for of the internet

25:42

ninety nine percent of what come across is not going

25:44

to be true

25:45

be aware of that and enjoy

25:47

but we don't do that

25:50

they are also thought that this mermaid so

25:52

koska so yes this is on animal planet

25:54

and it's made to look like a documentary

25:56

ah you know where and they have a actors

25:58

that they've hired to pretend

25:59

the scientists and they're all it's all about how

26:02

ya like they sound mermaids in here is like it's all

26:04

like footage but it's all special effects but

26:06

then at the and in the credits there's like

26:09

one of i and at the briefly says you

26:11

know some some of the suspects in or something

26:13

you know it's just like oh

26:15

my god as is so

26:17

weird yeah i mean even if

26:20

you blink you would have missed the disclaimer

26:22

the end it's it's just absolutely

26:25

it's wrong what they're doing

26:27

absolutely wrong

26:29

and i assume that you try to interview

26:31

the people who make these shows and

26:33

they just had they didn't wanna the

26:35

admit i have blueberries you're ready

26:38

to tell me the truth

26:39

and both of them back down at the last

26:43

we offered to alter their voice

26:45

and protect their

26:47

visual identity you know like if you are

26:49

the interview and a mob boss

26:52

and she bar we offer to do

26:54

those things in one

26:56

of them was really excited about it and then at the

26:58

end dot when i started really trying to

27:00

nail down a day he just stop responding

27:03

they didn't wanna risk losing their income

27:06

they have to buy diapers for their kids

27:09

and so they both

27:11

of them just no way where it wouldn't

27:13

we we thought it was a good idea about now we're

27:15

afraid that would have

27:18

well i saw someone the scientists

27:20

this is probably the scientists that struck me the

27:22

most is this guy can fader caesar

27:25

an archaeologist i think yeah i think

27:27

he's the linchpin superstar

27:29

of the

27:30

of the entire documentary

27:32

my opinion sade or just blew

27:34

it out of the water man he gave us

27:37

the amazing story

27:39

yeah what what you talk talk

27:41

about that would you which has you feel about it would you see

27:44

it was also basically on

27:46

this this tv show comes to him and

27:48

says can you talk about atlantic

27:50

city so sure i can talk about the legend of advances

27:53

you know i've read plato i you know

27:55

cetera and they say okay but can

27:57

you say we need to say that you believe that atlanta

28:00

real ran he says why i can't

28:02

do that you know i i don't it's it's have made up story

28:04

by played out and they say and

28:06

and under the seat sort of goes back and forth and back and forth

28:08

with his producer and it finally comes out

28:10

basically that does this production

28:12

company has been hired

28:14

and understood the movie

28:16

you know it'll answers the last empire

28:18

or something this animated feature of movies

28:20

coming out and they just want there to

28:22

be ah at this tv show

28:25

out there that makes atlantis look like a big deal

28:27

and so they want people saying oh it could be

28:29

real

28:30

and so it's the whole the whole thing is to see

28:32

describes it as like at a ninety minute infomercial

28:34

for the the movie you know it's

28:36

nada not really the

28:39

not interested in in the history that

28:41

all the yeah that's exactly

28:43

right and

28:44

that was stop and think about that from i mean i

28:46

mean if you're going to go watch a cartoon

28:48

about atlantis

28:50

the

28:52

it doesn't matter whether

28:54

laughter

28:56

the real place

28:57

or not i mean why why

29:00

does a production think that it's gonna

29:02

make a difference if they make

29:04

this

29:05

this

29:07

this is oh documentary this

29:09

maki mentoring mockery of documentaries

29:11

they make this documentary

29:13

to ah and make the

29:15

argument that they're real what why would that why

29:18

would that matter i just don't understand

29:20

the thinking there i

29:22

don't need to believe

29:25

that something is true to enjoy

29:27

an entertainment version of

29:29

a story that incorporates of

29:32

in it's is it doesn't make any sense to

29:34

me but yeah that's exactly right and they

29:36

even said will give you cover we're

29:38

we're at you in a way where you

29:40

can say to your colleagues why didn't say

29:42

it like that the their editing me just

29:44

are they literally said they're gonna edit him dishonestly

29:47

he could just tell people that i

29:49

just it's blows my mind and i love

29:51

that you can fade or is the great success

29:54

story in the film can fade or is the one

29:56

who said no i'm sure you have

29:58

a job to do and you seem like a very

29:59

the guy but dot

30:01

i'm not putting my name

30:04

out there are with this this information

30:06

so good luck to you he's the one

30:08

that walked away

30:10

that to me the success story

30:12

if you're a scientist and you know the

30:14

truth and someone's trying to get

30:16

you to tell a lie the right thing

30:18

to do is to stop there and

30:21

say no

30:24

the i heard you seen an interview i think that a lot

30:26

of these scientists you know go go go on these

30:28

shows and then don't be deceptive

30:30

we edited indo go

30:32

back in the on the show is again because they

30:35

they want to be ah this is their only chance there for going

30:37

to have to be on tv

30:38

yes it in new stuff is

30:40

definitely cuts both ways i mean i

30:43

mean when you when you're getting the opportunity to

30:45

talk about your washing

30:47

and and sure your knowledge yeah

30:50

you wanted you want to do what i mean

30:52

that the in the in a lot of these people their jobs

30:55

one other one of their job description

30:58

is a science communicator

31:01

and that you can't communicate

31:03

with people unless you actually take

31:05

the risk and go talk to some of these

31:07

people and hope for tell you

31:09

know lean toward the truth as opposed

31:12

to completely fictionalize

31:14

and fictionalize and eyes the work you've

31:16

put it the

31:18

you it you just tell people don't don't

31:20

do this at all or do you think it's possible to

31:23

speak so carefully that they can't

31:25

added it likes to some an editor

31:27

so i know that it's not possible to speak so

31:30

carefully the thicket edited but you can

31:32

get good at making it really difficult

31:34

for starters so on

31:36

so that's that's something that if you are science communicator

31:39

you one get really really good at dawkins

31:41

is about as good as it gets when

31:43

it comes to back on but

31:46

dot

31:47

yeah i don't think everybody should say no to

31:49

every show but i do like the

31:51

idea of when someone

31:53

literally tells you to your face we're

31:56

lying to the american people

31:58

with our project

31:59

we're trying to use your voice to do that

32:02

i think it's appropriate to go

32:04

oh i see thank you have a good day

32:06

and walk out yeah

32:08

dawkins avoid sitting down for anybody

32:11

he smells might be

32:13

planning to dishonestly

32:16

use his interview the

32:18

to push narrative he doesn't believe it so

32:21

i think there's a weighted to to walk the line

32:24

if you will

32:25

this is it just as you would say this is causing

32:28

is developed after some of the

32:30

things that you feature in his

32:32

documentary or

32:33

what do you mean

32:34

what was a question

32:36

did you think that that of the that his cautious

32:38

approach has been developed as a result of some

32:40

of the things that happened to him that are oh

32:43

pardon that documentary yeah no

32:45

i it is not hour documentary

32:47

that that that turned on that has no no yes

32:50

no he

32:51

he he was well aware of this

32:54

potential issue early in his

32:56

career and are

32:58

an easter egg and he has antenna

33:00

on ah that that

33:02

the that are constantly probing the

33:04

air for for that potentiality

33:07

farm when he interviews was when is

33:09

when someone's asking for an interview you

33:11

know he has people as well as himself they

33:14

do they do research about

33:16

talk about the people making the

33:18

work litter they're asking him be apart

33:21

and so that he can he can find

33:23

out whether or not he's walking into walking trap or

33:25

not and he avoids he avoids of those traps

33:27

it's it's rare that someone get

33:30

in

33:32

the gets an interview with dawkins

33:34

and our a and they are

33:36

a nefarious bomb operator

33:39

is very rare he smells i'm out pretty

33:41

quickly and i think he's not doing it so

33:44

long as you just figured out how to do that

33:46

the bullets you see in science fiction is this

33:48

was there is there some ben stein's expel

33:50

documentary yeah and they

33:52

asked him vast dawkins i

33:55

can you imagine any circumstances under

33:57

which intelligent design

33:59

might true ryan he's like well

34:02

any circumstances he's like well i guess

34:04

is aliens head seated earth

34:06

you had to , you know had if

34:08

life it evolved elsewhere in the universe

34:11

and then they'd come to earth and seated earth with

34:13

something biological yeah that's

34:15

that's something where it could happen

34:17

but i mean you forgot on think it's very

34:19

likely but it's mean if you're asking couldn't

34:21

have asking and have sort of added it's make

34:23

added look like this look like theory that

34:26

he's promoting that a i was lucky to live on

34:28

on earth so right so richard dawkins

34:30

police that there may be yeah

34:33

that's how they get it here's here's the

34:35

the reason they they they got him

34:37

the is because

34:39

up until that moment what

34:42

was the name of that project you remember the it

34:44

an old expelled prior

34:46

to expel ben stein was just

34:48

was tv host he didn't seem

34:51

to be like someone who would be pushing

34:53

be pushing way or an extremist

34:56

right wing or

34:59

religious fundamentalist scylla

35:01

philosophy in fact is jewish

35:03

why why would he why would dawkins

35:06

think that ben stein

35:07

i would be

35:09

doing something like this far

35:11

he didn't and door and

35:13

and in fact they didn't they didn't tell him

35:15

than it was called expelled i think

35:17

it had a different title i'm

35:19

, their request to interview him

35:22

which is also just fundamentally

35:25

dishonest and you know what would bow shalt

35:27

not lie what is wrong with christians

35:29

but that's what they are that's what

35:32

they did they do kim because he got

35:34

do because ben stein was doing

35:36

the interview with him and he didn't have any

35:38

reason to believe sunstein was a yeah right

35:40

wing nut job

35:42

yeah

35:43

the a turns out he is

35:45

yeah yeah we know now i

35:49

guess although you know like i say i'm i'm i'm so

35:51

am i like to think of myself the so rational and

35:53

skeptical and everything it's obvious i don't believe

35:55

in mermaid sir you know bigfoot

35:58

only these things by the one from your from science

36:00

fiction the kind of got me was i had i

36:02

guess believed that yellowstone

36:04

was overdue by quote unquote overdue

36:06

friend or other than right and

36:09

then to see that and in your documentary and sale

36:11

ago i guess i yeah i was more worried about

36:13

that than i needed to be and even get all

36:15

my ah you know

36:17

with all my experience with skepticism and

36:19

will that's and that's and that's the news

36:22

you know i mean the news is interviewing

36:24

experts

36:25

the war

36:26

you know that went when asked

36:28

when could yellowstone

36:31

explode

36:34

n n n

36:36

when the answer was

36:38

we don't know

36:40

it could be tomorrow could be next year

36:42

we could be in a hundred years it could be in ten

36:44

thousand years we just don't know

36:49

then always say is the headliners

36:52

those don't could explode tomorrow

36:55

that's just awful

36:57

but he using you can certainly

36:59

certainly shouldn't blame yourself for falling

37:01

for that one

37:02

i don't know if i knew anybody

37:04

who didn't fall for had one point because

37:07

the news was pushing it so hard

37:10

the didn't were there any other big

37:13

challenges are making this movie or

37:15

cenelec what was the process like over of

37:17

getting it out turn to the audience

37:19

ah

37:22

the biggest challenge we had was getting it and

37:24

sure

37:25

all of the dozen different

37:28

insurance

37:30

the options that we had that were entertainment

37:32

and insurance or organizations

37:35

of the and we went got a lawyer

37:37

we get a team of lawyers to

37:40

give us notes let us know what

37:42

might put us in legal jeopardy and

37:45

let us fix those things short

37:48

to you again and then sign off on

37:50

we went through that process with a legal team

37:53

and we got signed off on by legal team

37:55

and

37:56

despite that the fact that we

37:58

were going after these huge my teammates

38:00

production companies are

38:03

and pointing out their practices just

38:05

scared the hell out of but in the end

38:07

brian dunning

38:08

who is

38:10

used amazing figured

38:13

, how to actually get i think

38:15

an individual or group of individuals

38:17

to baskets and

38:19

underwriting so we

38:21

have we have legal protection

38:24

is someone wants to try to sue us which

38:26

would be the worst thing that can do i mean that you

38:29

know our little movies do and all right you know we're

38:31

gonna have you know we'll get a few million people

38:33

check it out our film but the minute

38:35

someone brings a lawsuit for

38:37

us telling the truth about their practices

38:40

you got the streisand effect so

38:42

when no one's gonna do know one stupid

38:44

enough to light that up that

38:46

way you know to me

38:48

yeah it just seems like there's such assorted

38:52

imbalance between

38:54

promoting kind of nonsense and promoting

38:56

skepticism if you

38:58

know you can promote nonsense all day along

39:00

with no concerns

39:02

of that sort but if you're

39:04

handing out the people are spreading nonsense

39:07

the us to be concerned about that into seems like

39:09

he i wish we had a different system under which

39:12

the stories were

39:16

we're legally

39:20

judged you know they wouldn't when

39:22

when you make a production you have to buy

39:24

insurance against being sued by somebody

39:26

in order to put it up on anything fall

39:29

, v to be er der you know that

39:32

and b c a b c you name it no

39:34

matter where you could it be gotta get you

39:36

gotta get insured so

39:38

that if someone does wanna clean

39:41

your library now more or slandering

39:43

them that you've got some some

39:45

insurance and coverage there

39:47

and

39:49

the the the lawyer

39:51

stir for for these big huge production

39:53

companies they look at their their

39:55

productions and they go a

39:57

you we can't you gotta fix this i can see of pepsi

39:59

i can and the shot or because

40:02

we don't want pepsi coming out of school and a

40:04

you know it looks like pepsi is supporting

40:07

this project know so you gotta fix that

40:09

shot and and blur out that pepsi can't

40:11

but the the lawyers aren't looking

40:13

at it going

40:14

i'm sorry you can't say

40:17

that mermaids exist when they

40:19

don't because that's just not true

40:22

that's what blows my mind it just blows

40:24

my mind that

40:25

they're worried about

40:27

a pepsi can a

40:29

and not about the truth that

40:31

just it just those my mind i

40:34

wish there was a way to get productions

40:37

to have to

40:39

be honest about

40:41

the the the myths and the fiction the say

40:44

that they push out of the people

40:46

butter we don't have that kind of system or guess

40:49

freedom of speech comes at comes at maybe this

40:51

is one of

40:53

that you have any ideas about how things could

40:55

maybe be i mean seems like if the problem

40:58

is just there you

41:00

have to put up the money for the insurance

41:02

could maybe be some like fun like skeptical

41:04

fund interview some some

41:07

funds that private groups put together

41:09

to did anyone who wants to make a skeptical documentary

41:12

or something could ah you know

41:14

the i don't i don't really i mean really lot of people

41:16

aren't doing what we did right that's not that's

41:18

it's not a thing a lot of people are doing so that

41:20

would just i think it just has to happen

41:22

the way happen for us individuals finding

41:25

funders and backers who

41:27

we wanna support this kind of work and

41:29

saying i will will

41:31

we'll put up so you don't have to shut up farm

41:34

but i think it would have happen on an

41:36

individual basis saw the

41:39

there isn't a there isn't a huge market

41:41

of people making documentaries trying to expose

41:43

these last

41:45

sadly you dude

41:47

you know of any

41:48

the more document i was just literally trying

41:50

to think of something else and i can't think of i can

41:52

take another example i didn't realize

41:55

we're this original citizen

41:58

i mean yeah i would

41:59

the see more stuff like this i mean in i

42:02

do i'm because it cause i interviewed

42:04

com as i said i interviewed brian dunning back

42:06

in episode five so that was back in twenty ten

42:08

so like twelve years ago in in even back

42:11

then he was talking about on trying to put together on

42:14

t , cu skeptical tv so i'm trying to

42:16

you he put together i think some is called like here

42:18

be dragons of like this forty minute thing that

42:21

was being used in school but he

42:23

had since he had it's just been a long long

42:25

efforts her to get

42:27

material like this out to the public yeah

42:29

will brian's one of the few people doing

42:31

works like this on

42:34

there's no question about that he's got a couple different films

42:36

out that

42:37

the talk about these these kinds of things

42:40

it's right up his alley you know what

42:42

he does by default

42:44

but down

42:46

yeah i'd like to do they are

42:49

joking about titled the on the title that he has put

42:51

down you've got to films i'm aware of the

42:53

sites hours

42:54

the one key lime

42:57

oh okay i've been hurt so there's other ones that are

42:59

out others get to go out i cannot

43:01

think to not think in the title

43:04

the

43:06

eric i came out i was a look it up or look

43:08

it up while we're talking on the on the back to on that if i

43:10

can find

43:11

okay cool

43:13

i meet you think there there's anything

43:16

that could be done with and because you

43:18

say like his production companies all they care about

43:20

is making money and stuff like that is there anything

43:22

that could be done do you think about

43:24

shifting the incentive somehow so that's

43:27

i mean i disagree

43:29

if if if we had some sort of law

43:31

in place on that said

43:34

you can't knowingly mislead

43:36

the public

43:38

by a cable and

43:40

via airways

43:41

ah

43:43

then that would be a game changer

43:45

i suppose

43:47

that's not my know about principles

43:49

of curiosity by the way is the

43:51

the other john

43:53

it's a guide to critical thinking

43:56

of you well that's basically what it is

43:59

the

44:01

it's not similar to what he and i

44:03

did with skeptically earning my thumb

44:05

out the science

44:07

fiction it's a it's a similar size

44:09

quick friction at all it's it's it's about

44:12

how to thinking why we should think

44:14

critically ah seats

44:16

for critical thinking

44:18

he's really about educating the public

44:21

okay out of out of a check that out i read

44:23

it it seems to me that it would be hard have all sort

44:25

of a law because it because like you say that would

44:28

run afoul of the first amendment by wonder

44:30

if there's some way you could fresher

44:32

production companies to have some sort of

44:35

a code of ethics to decide on sign onto

44:37

that

44:38

the key events that would be amazing

44:40

i can't imagine how you would get them to do

44:42

it but but ah i don't think it would run

44:44

afoul if listen it's

44:46

know he is we just watched

44:49

johnny depp

44:50

to his ex

44:52

for saying something that was

44:54

exactly not true about him

44:57

in the public and she lost and

44:59

had to pay millions

45:01

so erm freedom of speech

45:03

was not impinged by that process

45:06

and

45:07

the and that was possible because

45:09

we have libel and slander laws in place

45:12

if we took the libel and slander last

45:14

and we looked at them and we

45:16

wrote a law that was similar

45:19

in in in a in fear

45:21

of in intense

45:23

the get people to actually be

45:25

legally and financially responsible

45:28

for

45:30

putting out misinformation knowingly putting

45:32

out lies and misinformation that's

45:34

not a freedom of speech issue

45:37

you're not free

45:39

two

45:39

libel and slander

45:41

i don't see why we couldn't say and

45:43

you're also not free to knowingly

45:46

misleading lie especially

45:48

if you're in governments for example but that's

45:50

another discussion of together

45:52

the i wonder if i wonder if someone could bring

45:55

opie interesting okay so in the indian

45:57

science fiction there's this sark scientist

46:00

in starkly comes to him and and

46:02

spends two days interviewing him about his his

46:04

real scientific stark work

46:07

yeah and then they presented

46:09

in such a way that on they

46:11

made it seem like he believes in this mythological

46:13

voodoo shark and that's what he's talking about and that's

46:15

what all the footage is him searching for the voodoo

46:18

sark and stuff that , a dog

46:20

or and that that has very serious potential

46:22

to harm his reputation you

46:24

know is as a scientist and so i

46:26

wonder if he could bring some sort

46:28

of fun defamation case

46:31

now

46:31

i have the same thought i really i really wonder

46:34

about that are ya

46:37

i think we have one of our interviewees

46:40

i'm brian

46:43

or is there will come to me a minute

46:46

he he actually met

46:48

mouse lower part of mellow brain

46:50

melanoma he ryan mallett was was

46:52

saying same thing you know this guy is

46:56

, i think at the end of the day

46:58

i think the scientific community

47:01

knows

47:03

the

47:04

the the

47:06

what what goes on there and i don't think it does

47:08

harm

47:09

the scientists

47:12

the reputation

47:14

i really don't think it does

47:16

but yeah the

47:18

the poor guy meant i mean what

47:20

really sucks the most tour

47:23

for those shark

47:25

shark week i'm trying to find his name for

47:27

you

47:28

the second to look up his name jonathan

47:30

davis on jonathan davis

47:32

was

47:33

what what really sucks a lot is his

47:36

you so excited to be asked to be part

47:38

of a production

47:41

like shark week home and

47:44

be involved and you know and in discoveries

47:46

shark week the

47:49

extravaganza and and then you're

47:51

treated like this that that was

47:54

that that's

47:55

it really affected him that really

47:57

upset him deeply

47:59

that he had been treated this way and and and

48:02

and that he had to find out that shark week

48:04

entering into this pseudoscience

48:07

nonsense thing it's just it really was

48:09

upsetting farm you know he's a science

48:12

communicator and he just had his

48:14

had a speech swept from underneath them

48:16

by these monsters the ,

48:18

monsters are behind the camera my friends

48:21

that's the truth

48:24

yeah i wonder if the the

48:26

only real solution is really just so continue

48:29

promoting science and skepticism

48:31

and make it so that there's

48:33

that's it a market for

48:35

the shark maria us

48:37

and more of a more and more of a market for

48:40

real science and and also that take

48:42

it worse the skeptical minded

48:44

people into positions of power

48:46

within these are approaching companies and staff

48:48

who who don't wanna he involved

48:50

in these sata sort of stupid will

48:52

yeah and and and teaching critical thinking

48:55

are you know from from from

48:57

the first grade on i mean that the that's you

49:00

remember going to your critical thinking class when you are

49:02

can notify the for that's right that's

49:05

because it doesn't exist that's what we

49:07

need we need to teach

49:09

not kids what to think but how to

49:13

yeah yeah i completely grew that could cause it to

49:16

at a certain certain point i feel like

49:18

you know that the fact that they're making the mermaids

49:20

a real so was a problem but then the fact that

49:22

people don't have

49:24

the it's wine level

49:27

of knowledge and skepticism to see this mermaids

49:30

a real show and to say i go get a seems really

49:32

suspicious or not find this at all

49:34

you know this is added to parallel

49:37

problems yeah

49:40

absolutely

49:42

i wonder i wonder if we were

49:44

nation

49:45

the science minded critical

49:47

thinking people i wonder

49:50

if you could make

49:52

that show

49:54

about

49:56

mermaids being real

49:58

i wondered you could make that

49:59

show

50:01

still get the same number

50:03

abuse

50:06

where

50:07

the viewer the enjoyed the entertainment

50:10

of

50:11

knowing full well

50:13

that it was pure entertainment

50:15

the not true

50:16

i think maybe so i really do

50:18

think so

50:21

yeah i mean i'm up on the fantasy and science fiction

50:23

authors i love story is about mermaids

50:26

and all that kind of stuff it's just renault

50:28

i always if you're reading fantasies and six

50:30

you always know going into at that it's fix and you know

50:33

it's clearly labeled that writing nobody's

50:35

confused about them

50:36

and why wouldn't it be

50:38

okay to tell that story

50:41

and incorporate

50:43

an aspect of it for the viewer

50:45

that shows how ignorant

50:47

we were

50:48

you could you could have all the amazing things

50:51

going on there and why why are

50:53

it would be so great to tell that story just

50:55

like they did but incorporate the

50:58

the word myth and if if you know every

51:00

ten pages or the it

51:02

seems it seems like it's still a fun story

51:04

fun story

51:06

no when that the people at

51:08

one point believed this silliness

51:11

maybe we'll get there one day maybe we will

51:13

evolve to that one day i don't

51:15

know

51:16

yeah but you would be i agree with you would be so great

51:19

to have more critical thinking taught to

51:21

everyone in society because you did

51:23

you have people even if they're

51:25

not doing of the mermaid surreal so yet

51:27

so much of the media just perpetuating

51:29

sort a hoax things i mean i'm

51:32

events in the johnny depp trial i don't have

51:34

he saw there was this ridiculous i think with

51:36

some the l a times they

51:38

said that jason mama had testified

51:40

in the trial and trial and didn't

51:43

like if you fall the shroud are you would know he didn't testify

51:45

at all but there was the spiral i tick tock

51:47

video it's obviously his jokes

51:49

you know it's yeah using footage of him from something else

51:51

but fighting isis and stop yeah and

51:54

and it's just like how do you

51:56

that it does your problems there right in

51:58

one is just like reading about the trial

51:59

when you're just haven't watched it for

52:02

the near the other is like watching the spiral

52:04

joke video and not being able to tell

52:06

read up about this is obviously a joke

52:08

is or to failure is is critical

52:11

thinking you know that are operating

52:14

in his source his source in the

52:16

media today

52:18

yeah we're and we're headed down a bad path to

52:20

i mean

52:23

deep fake video

52:26

the buddy mind

52:28

the guy i mentioned earlier in the in the interview

52:32

he does voices

52:34

and they have this technology

52:36

where he can actually

52:39

right out a script and perform as

52:42

goldblum

52:44

it was named gold

52:46

that's jeff gordon jeff goldblum yeah the

52:48

and performers go blow

52:50

and there's go boom right for new video

52:53

but you're hearing the voice

52:56

of the a of this guy does

52:58

amazing voices it sounds just like go

53:00

blow

53:01

and it's hilarious and and if

53:04

you don't realize you're watching you know

53:06

a deep faith thing was made for entertainment

53:08

purposes

53:09

and you do because she's got a channel

53:12

doing voices arm but

53:14

you know if that was a standalone thing you saw you think

53:16

oh my god go blue really said that stuff so

53:19

you know with the deep fake stuff they're doing video

53:22

wise it's it's where we're headed

53:24

down a bad path when this turns you

53:26

know when when when politicians start

53:28

using this the lie

53:31

about their

53:32

about their opponents

53:34

yeah yeah that is that is stephanie really scary

53:37

could

53:38

this is so much it so hard to get people to agree

53:40

on any the empirical facts

53:42

the lies

53:44

yeah i'm not going to are you doing that two plus

53:46

two isn't too that's that's all you need to know about

53:48

where we're headed

53:50

the i mean it and for god dammit two plus

53:52

two isn't see

53:55

the got to me

53:58

what do you think i mean this

53:59

the only cause like i said i was really into

54:02

the atheist skeptical community

54:04

a kind of two thousand and five to two thousand

54:06

and ten two thousand twelve or so and then i got

54:08

really i got so busy doing this podcast that i

54:10

haven't been as involved you're used to be involved with

54:12

i see a thigh and los angeles

54:14

and new york city skeptics my what'd york and

54:16

stuff like that but i've i've been a little bit out of it for

54:19

you know for probably almost ten years now

54:21

but i'm but i'm curious what you wear your taken

54:24

his take on this is that you know he mentions like

54:26

that the grover's wade was just

54:28

overturned than

54:31

when i was really getting into the atheist skeptical

54:33

stuff i mean i was really optimistic that

54:36

you know in ten or twenty years we would be living

54:38

in a country where religion

54:41

was playing lots of a wrong

54:43

is right i did too

54:46

i did you i really thought that all of us working

54:48

so hard and the skeptic an atheist communities

54:51

we're we're having you know

54:53

a positive effect on

54:56

the minds of americans and and and that we were moving

54:58

in the right direction we never

55:00

would begin the right direction religion

55:02

is always gonna win no matter what it's

55:04

just there's just there's beating it it's

55:06

awful

55:09

i mean it seems to me that and i

55:11

was like i said us out of it so on

55:14

that the this is just my impression from what i see or is is

55:16

that the atheist community lost a lot of

55:18

it's energy from just people within

55:20

like atheists attacking other atheists silver

55:23

wrong same girl and a stupid squabbles

55:25

and stuff like that rather we walked away when

55:27

the whoa

55:28

i'm not a right winger by the way imo

55:31

amazon left as it is you can get i

55:33

tried to be libertarian and i realize

55:35

that was just pure folly

55:37

but ah know i'm on

55:39

a left winger to the day i die

55:43

when the woke etti all agree

55:45

made it's way into our conventions

55:47

that when we walked away

55:49

heather and i were both sickened

55:51

by the fundamentally flawed

55:54

regressive thinking of the woke

55:56

etiology the took over the skeptic

55:58

an atheist communities

55:59

the wanted nothing more to do with it one the sober happen

56:03

yeah i it just seems like the atheist

56:05

community needs india

56:08

needs organizations that are right ways are focused

56:10

on ah you

56:13

know separation of church and state and

56:15

promoting science and skepticism

56:17

the and kind of having a broad sense

56:20

for different political

56:21

yeah orientations yeah

56:24

yeah when when when started

56:28

trying to

56:30

right up policies for conventions

56:34

the the really had only

56:36

one thing in mind and that is

56:38

to demonize

56:41

demonize men and the

56:44

demonize star any kind of

56:46

sexual interaction between men and

56:48

women the fish conventions when

56:50

that started happening

56:53

the conventions became about that

56:55

the the it was no longer about about

56:59

skepticism it was no longer about atheism

57:01

the that they they really should have just called

57:03

them the what convention to point out it

57:06

was just a mess is it you

57:08

know winters i've no interest in that such

57:10

that are conventions didn't have

57:13

the kinds of problems that

57:14

we were suddenly being accused

57:17

of having

57:19

at all or we have these

57:21

folks come in and then they said they wanted

57:23

to build a safe space for for you

57:26

know people who are triggered by certain

57:28

sounds and words that's not that's

57:30

not what we were doing they came in and literally

57:32

changed fundamentally changed

57:34

with those conventions were about we

57:37

already have laws in place to deal

57:39

with people who were acting inappropriately

57:41

or or toward toward

57:43

women or others were misbehaving

57:45

in ways that job make people uncomfortable

57:47

we already have lost for that we don't need

57:50

policies and we don't need you heard

57:52

the operators of these conventions

57:55

or into thought police and

57:57

that's what they were doing

58:00

i meet you think that in the wake of justice

58:02

this devastating to see it for people

58:04

who want religion out of politics

58:07

that it'll cause people to say okay

58:09

we gotta focus refocus

58:12

on on his policy yeah

58:15

on he sort of separation of church or

58:17

the only way i mean listen

58:21

i don't know yet i do i honestly don't know

58:23

how to answer that question i'm gonna have to see

58:26

if there is a a

58:28

landslide against the g

58:30

o p for taking away the right of

58:32

a woman to choose there's

58:35

a landslide against that that i will say

58:37

yes hopefully or that that that will

58:39

be the sorry but we have to watch

58:41

and see i don't know

58:43

don't know we're either going to live under sharia

58:45

law in this country for a handful years

58:48

or until this nonsense can be reversed

58:50

and rights can be restored to women are

58:53

or we're just gonna become more and more

58:55

like iran

58:58

and step by step they'll be taking away our rights

59:00

to my right to be bisexual

59:03

be stripped away and they'll they'll

59:05

they'll love

59:06

they'll make it illegal for be to have sex with

59:08

men they'll make it illegal for me to

59:11

to to onto the to say publicly

59:13

that i have more than one partner no

59:16

met a didn't know it bit by bit they're

59:19

gonna they're gonna if if if there isn't

59:21

a landslide against this

59:23

movement to strip women have the right

59:26

if if if even the right wing

59:29

women don't step forward and both down

59:31

or these joking monsters then

59:34

who are you know how i'll be more

59:37

happy to be dying in the next thirty years

59:39

than i would be

59:43

i don't want to and so on a complete downer

59:46

so i misinterpreted

59:48

the about a hundred her like slightly less

59:51

contentious question of a good okay so

59:53

that is what kind of interesting that so

59:55

this the documentary called science fiction

59:57

and again i recommend everyone check it out it's really interesting

59:59

but i heard you say that you had trouble

1:00:02

with like people would try to search

1:00:04

for it and it would say i oh did you mean

1:00:06

science fiction and then and yeah

1:00:08

come up

1:00:09

yeah yeah the ai is

1:00:12

, to become another down or discussion i think a

1:00:15

i was making this horrific

1:00:17

assumption

1:00:19

that when when they tightened if you

1:00:21

typed in science fiction

1:00:23

and you got to type the whole phrase

1:00:26

in

1:00:27

it would just show you science fiction

1:00:29

this it wouldn't even show you our

1:00:32

show science fiction

1:00:35

them

1:00:36

and because the i was

1:00:38

trying to auto correct logically

1:00:41

swore something and something

1:00:43

and made no sense in didn't make sense to you type

1:00:46

in science fiction and not even see or title

1:00:48

if he said his return science f r

1:00:50

e to show your title but when you finish

1:00:53

the word friction

1:00:54

it would take away our title and show you know them science

1:00:57

fiction that was bizarre

1:01:00

we we've been talking for years and sam

1:01:03

harris has been talking for years about the dangers

1:01:05

of a i am were already

1:01:07

wading into the dangers

1:01:09

of we live we live

1:01:11

right now with the dangers of

1:01:13

a i and i know this little example

1:01:15

doesn't seem to fall under the danger category

1:01:18

but a i is definitely

1:01:21

the reason that we've become

1:01:23

so her wrist equally divided

1:01:26

hey i set out to divide

1:01:28

us incidentally not on purpose

1:01:31

that like the a i was like are i had

1:01:33

our first step is going to give them the get against

1:01:35

each other says i what happened what happened

1:01:37

was the a i was written to keep our

1:01:39

eyes on the screen and what it

1:01:41

found the kept her eyes on the screen

1:01:44

was when we got really upset

1:01:47

if you could outreach people they would stay engaged

1:01:50

the outraging people

1:01:51

this hobby that how we end up as divided

1:01:54

as we are

1:01:56

yeah i mean people have been talking about all the dangers

1:01:58

of ai but we never knew there were coming

1:01:59

there are ours was a i'm ah

1:02:04

yeah for the endangered

1:02:06

yeah no no we did we had no idea

1:02:08

that it would that it wouldn't he starts so quickly

1:02:10

i really didn't know

1:02:13

you know i always and i was always thinking

1:02:15

you know this is stupid we're not

1:02:17

going to build a machine that can self replicates

1:02:19

and turn itself into a killing machine

1:02:22

when we're not looking and then come kill

1:02:24

us all that stupid the second half and

1:02:26

will pull the plug they need electricity what are you

1:02:28

talking about

1:02:29

no they don't

1:02:30

not all right there's way more subtle

1:02:33

ways to destroy societies with the

1:02:35

i ah than

1:02:37

the than the the

1:02:39

that

1:02:39

the big science fiction science

1:02:41

fiction way

1:02:43

even i'm doing it

1:02:45

so if somebody wants to watch

1:02:47

science friction or can they just go to

1:02:49

the he just going to amazon type in science fiction and it

1:02:51

will come up now read or will

1:02:53

remember this all you have to know if

1:02:56

you wanna watch science fiction

1:02:58

his

1:02:59

to be

1:03:00

or not to be

1:03:02

it's on to be

1:03:03

the

1:03:04

but if you don't want to watch it on t to be

1:03:06

you can go over to amazon prime

1:03:09

and pay a dollar ninety nine

1:03:11

yeah and i i that's how i watched it on amazon

1:03:14

prime and i think i just typed in science fiction and

1:03:16

and i was able to in a camera it up so i

1:03:18

think yeah you

1:03:19

the are you sort come up before you finish

1:03:22

typing it is what are the turkish leader

1:03:25

all right so that's the that's the key is just go

1:03:27

go to amazon type in science

1:03:30

science african know the

1:03:32

other your yeah the minute

1:03:34

you hit that an issue taken away you'll see

1:03:36

it

1:03:37

yeah important for

1:03:39

, center or it's what we're all at

1:03:41

a time so you have any you

1:03:43

have final thoughts or any other projects you wanna

1:03:45

let people know that

1:03:49

i don't have any projects are on the front

1:03:51

burner right now

1:03:53

i don't have much to share with you i

1:03:56

know that you can no

1:03:58

longer find me

1:04:00

ah

1:04:01

on know tick tock because

1:04:03

i got banned and i'm done with

1:04:06

to talk

1:04:07

there's nothing you can do about it it doesn't make

1:04:09

any sense the algorithm was wrong and banned

1:04:11

me i'm not making another account so

1:04:13

if you'd like to follow me you could find me on

1:04:15

twitter at emory emery i

1:04:20

okay yeah yeah you're so on twitter of us the

1:04:22

last i checked so yeah i'll definitely

1:04:24

at people can fall either yeah unless

1:04:27

they put dot donald trump back on twitter

1:04:29

i'll be on twitter

1:04:31

i'm or was so

1:04:33

yeah was he was really great talking with you and we're

1:04:35

gonna wrap things up there susan

1:04:38

sticking with every with every

1:04:40

his new documentary science fiction the

1:04:43

every thank you so much for joining us thank you

1:04:45

david that was or

1:04:47

interview subjects thanks again to

1:04:49

every every for joining us on the show

1:04:51

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1:04:54

was made possible thanks to support from listeners

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so that was our show so thanks everyone

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for listening and will cnx

1:05:14

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