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at queerkindleco.com. Welcome

0:49

to Gender Reveal, a podcast where we

0:51

hopefully get a little bit closer to

0:53

understanding what the hell gender is. I'm

0:56

your host and resident gender detective,

0:58

Tuck Woodstock. Hey

1:08

everyone, hope you're all hanging in there. This

1:11

week on the show, I am so, so happy to

1:13

share my conversation with my friend, Jerika Che. I

1:16

met Jerika via the podcast many years ago,

1:18

and they have been thoroughly enmeshed in the

1:20

gender reveal universe ever since. Not

1:22

only were they a guest on the

1:24

podcast in 2019, they've also judged the

1:26

gender reveal grant since its inception, hosted

1:28

multiple trans day of snack events, and

1:30

provided thousands of free stickers for patrons

1:32

and live show guests. I am

1:35

very excited to have Jerika back on the show

1:37

to fill us in on what they've been up

1:39

to in the past five years, and specifically talk

1:41

about their series of increasingly elaborate trans community events.

1:44

In this episode, we talk about how they ended up organizing

1:46

a huge sort of trans summer camp

1:48

and how that camp is inspired

1:51

by abolitionist concepts. you

2:00

create in the place where you get a wash

2:02

thing. We also discuss gender

2:04

segregated trans picnics, holidays that should

2:06

not be trans, and tips for

2:09

people looking to organize their own

2:11

community gatherings. But before we get

2:13

to that, it's time for This Week in Gender. Okay,

2:22

to be honest, I had two different

2:24

This Week in Gender ideas that both

2:26

had substantive things to say about transness

2:28

and gender discourse. Neither of

2:30

them are coming out today. And so

2:32

instead, we're going to do something that I'm

2:34

calling the girls in gays movie corner. So

2:37

I have a film degree and because of that,

2:39

I have taken a solemn vow to never write

2:41

a sincere movie review, because it's just simply not

2:44

that serious. And yet the

2:46

last six films I have seen

2:48

have all been created by the

2:50

girls and or the gays. And

2:52

it is no coincidence that they

2:54

have absolutely slapped and also absolutely

2:56

smacked of gender. So for

2:58

lack of anything better to do, I'm going

3:00

to tell you why each of the last

3:02

six movies I've seen are specifically relevant to

3:04

the gender reveal podcast. Again, this is not

3:07

a review. This is just me

3:09

tying movies into the theme of

3:11

our podcast, because I can. Number

3:16

one, problemista. I

3:19

am so happy to be finally talking about

3:21

problemista on the show because I do think

3:23

it's actually the trans representation of my dreams.

3:25

Not only does the film

3:27

star certified gender freak Tilda

3:30

Swinton, it also includes iconic

3:32

trans actresses like Shakina and

3:34

Sandra Caldwell, as well as

3:36

a real who's who of

3:38

Brooklyn comedy trans is including

3:40

Charlene incarnate, a show stealing

3:42

River Ramirez and Spike Einbinder

3:44

as a trans named spray.

3:47

And yet at no point in the film is

3:49

there a moment where anybody stops to like reveal

3:51

their gender? You know what I mean? Like

3:53

none of the gays come out as gay. They just

3:55

are gay. Nobody turns directly to camera and

3:58

says, my pronouns are they them and they are gay. and

4:00

this is why you should respect that as an ally. People

4:02

are busy, the characters have problems, they don't have

4:04

time for that. It's just a world in which

4:06

everyone knows how to be normal, and queer and

4:08

trans people get to be their true selves, which

4:11

is to say, hot and funny and weird and

4:13

maybe annoying, and also there's a huge egg motif,

4:15

which is unrelated, but it can't

4:17

be that unrelated, right? Huge egg motif. And

4:20

then also the Roosevelt Island tram is

4:22

in there for some reason, and that's

4:24

trans representation, and I refuse to explain

4:26

why. Number

4:29

two, Love Lies Bleeding. In

4:32

a promotional interview for this film, Kristen Stewart

4:34

says, and I quote, I want

4:37

to do the gayest freaking thing you've ever

4:39

seen in your life. If I could grow

4:41

a little messy, if I could grow a

4:43

fucking happy trail and unbutton my pants, I

4:45

would. Kristen, I have great

4:47

news for you. And

4:50

on a related note, there is a pivotal

4:52

scene in this movie, Love Lies Bleeding, where

4:54

if you squint your eyes just a tiny

4:56

bit, you will see

4:58

a depiction of a trans mass giving his crush

5:01

their first tee shot. Number

5:04

three, this is me, dot

5:07

dot dot, now. Okay,

5:10

let's be real, this 50 minute JLo music

5:12

video doesn't really belong on this list, but

5:14

it was one of the last six movies

5:16

I've seen, and I am nothing if not

5:19

inconveniently honest. So let me try to justify

5:21

it in a few ways. One,

5:23

it is for the girls in the gays, that's

5:25

it. Two, it's an important

5:27

cautionary tale about the dangers of

5:30

unbridled heterosexuality. Number three,

5:32

it is weirdly very much about

5:34

astrology. And number

5:36

four, Kim Patras is there. Number

5:40

four, I Saw the TV Glow. This

5:43

is an A24 movie that comes out next

5:45

month, so I won't say too much until

5:47

you get the chance to see it. Let

5:49

me just say now, it is a horror

5:51

movie about gender dysphoria made by trans people.

5:53

Every single shot is stunning. The soundtrack in

5:56

the movie itself are full of your favorite

5:58

queer pop girlies. Importantly,

6:00

I need you to see it because frankly I

6:02

think my letter box review is very funny and

6:04

I won't know if it actually funny until people

6:06

can see the movies. So. What's.

6:08

It feel a feeling. Report back if you think

6:10

my joke is good. Thank you so much. Number

6:15

Five girls state. Girl

6:17

Say is a sister film to the Twenty Twenty

6:19

Documentary Boys State And yes, make the obvious joke.

6:22

I hope that and Twenty Twenty Eight they come

6:24

out with the new film non binary know state.

6:27

Anyway, if you're not familiar with the girls

6:29

stay and boys state programs, I will let

6:31

you look it up on your own time.

6:33

But basically it's girls. They is a documentary

6:35

about what it's like to experience American teen

6:37

girl hood and be told like yes, go

6:39

off queens the future Is he mouth. Girls

6:41

can do anything boys can do. You will

6:43

be the President one day. But by the

6:45

way, we will not be offering you the

6:47

same resources or freedoms or opportunities as the

6:50

boys over there in the next room. And

6:52

so these teens get to look at what

6:54

they're being offered. As you know, people who

6:56

are perceived as teen. Girls: Many of them are

6:58

teen girls. There's like nine hundred have done so

7:00

statistically, at least one of them as that, you

7:02

know what I mean. Butler hits teen girls ostensibly,

7:04

and. They. Get to figure out what

7:06

is working for them about this. What

7:08

They embrace, what they reject, what woman

7:11

had means to them. Does womanhood mean

7:13

anything to them? So while it's not

7:15

an overtly trans film, nobody like overtly

7:17

rejects womanhood itself as a label in

7:19

the movies, it did make me think

7:21

a lot about my own experiences that

7:23

gender, and also like even if none

7:25

of those girlies ever trends, the Sun

7:27

system will also have genders. and sometimes

7:29

it's helpful to remember that. Number

7:33

Six. The people's joker. I.

7:36

Have so much to say about the

7:38

people, Felker. But. also i

7:40

kind of have a hunch that all i

7:42

need to say to sell you on it

7:44

is that they are selling assists old merged

7:46

t shirts that say i saw that he

7:48

pulls joker and now i'm trans and i

7:50

did buy one and if you see this

7:52

movie you can get one and we can

7:55

match for now i will just say if

7:57

the people's joker is screening in your town

7:59

i really encourage go see it, and

8:01

ideally I would encourage you to go see

8:03

it by like next Monday?

8:05

No reason why.

8:08

I wouldn't worry about it. Thank

8:10

you for indulging me. I promise to never do

8:12

this to you again, but this has

8:14

been the Girls in the Gays Movie Corner

8:17

on this week in Gender. We've

8:24

got two theymail messages for you today.

8:26

Our first message is from Joss Writer,

8:28

and it says, non-binary musician Joss Writer

8:31

invites you to contribute to the Kickstarter

8:33

for Gentle Them, a new take on

8:35

the Afghan Wigs 1993 breakup

8:38

album Gentlemen. Featuring amazing

8:40

musicians and a fresh musical perspective,

8:42

this new version captures sonically the

8:44

experience and process of shedding an

8:47

assigned gender and embracing a non-binary

8:49

truth. Search Gentle Them

8:51

on kickstarter.com. Our

8:53

second message is actually a rerun from the

8:55

Cruising Podcast. Turns out you can do that

8:58

if you pay me twice. And it says,

9:00

searching for your next queer podcast, check out

9:02

Cruising, the show about lesbian bars, the humans

9:04

that run them, and the humans that call

9:06

them a home. Cruising takes you across the

9:08

US to today's Dyke Bars and Safak Spaces,

9:10

and to history making lesbian bars of decades

9:13

past. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Okay,

9:16

one more quick ad, then we'll get to the interview. Here we

9:18

go. Believe it

9:20

or not, I'm a pretty private person.

9:22

I don't like to share intimate details

9:24

with people I just met, I certainly

9:26

don't want strangers to be able to

9:28

look at my home address or my

9:30

family members' names or any other personal

9:32

info really. And that's why I continue

9:34

to use Delete Me. Delete Me routinely

9:36

scans hundreds of data broker websites to

9:38

make sure that my personal information is

9:40

not easily available online. Delete Me can

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also scrub info tied to dead names

9:44

and other aliases. You can

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join today at joindeleteme.com/gender reveal

9:49

and use the code TUCK20 to get 20%

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off your entire order. That is TUCK20 for

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20% off at joindeleteme.com/gender

9:56

reveal. Jerika

10:09

Jay is an activist and the

10:11

lead organizer with Seattle Trans Joy.

10:14

They create spaces to grow local, trans,

10:16

and nonbinary communities. You

10:29

were originally on the show almost five years ago,

10:31

so I'm going to ask you a classic question

10:33

again. In terms of gender, how

10:36

do you describe yourself? Yeah,

10:39

I guess the same. I

10:41

identify as trans and as

10:43

nonbinary. Amazing. The popular ones.

10:46

Have there been any changes

10:48

in the last five years, do you think, in

10:50

either the way you think about your gender or

10:52

the way you just think about gender, or has

10:54

that been pretty consistent? Yeah,

10:57

I guess. To

10:59

be more specific than trans and nonbinary,

11:02

I find the term nonbinary actually very

11:04

freeing. I feel like some

11:07

folks may not feel that way, but

11:10

I think it has relation

11:12

to this moment in

11:14

time compared to previous moments in time.

11:17

I'm an older millennial, as old

11:19

as millennials can get according to

11:21

Wikipedia slash millennial. The

11:24

categories available for gender have

11:26

changed so much during that

11:28

time. I grew up

11:31

knowing I was trans,

11:34

even though nobody said the word trans,

11:37

and gender nonconforming or gender

11:39

variant or whatever, since

11:41

I was a young

11:44

teenager on the early internet.

11:47

I kind of joke that I've never transitioned. It's

11:49

just like I've tried to find labels that fit

11:51

with me, even though I have done medical

11:54

stuff, I guess. You

11:56

have told me that you

11:58

were regraggidly trans- but also secretly trans-masked.

12:00

Can you talk about that? Sure.

12:04

I feel like I don't

12:06

want to be in a box, man. I

12:09

want to be in a box. I'm trying

12:11

to get categories of trans-mask but

12:14

I also take estradiol and wear

12:16

makeup. I mean, I also take

12:19

estradiol. So that doesn't mean anything.

12:21

Oh, well. On

12:25

paper, I guess I'm under the

12:27

trans-fem umbrella. But on the side,

12:31

I'm like, I could take the rain.

12:33

That's fine, but thank you for the

12:35

umbrella. I still feel a little uncomfortable

12:37

going to trans-fem and trans-women events. Well,

12:41

being secretly trans-masked, I don't know. I

12:44

guess part of what your gender is is when you look in

12:46

the mirror and what you see. And

12:48

the modern mirror is the Instagram

12:51

algorithm. Totally. And it just

12:53

means trans-mask ads all the time. I

12:56

see a trans-sack, this event's

12:58

for trans-masks. And sometimes I'm like, oh,

13:00

that's an interesting event. Should I

13:02

go to that? And I'm like, oh, wait. That's not me at all. But

13:05

maybe that's because just culture, trans-culture,

13:08

conflates non-binary and trans-mask a lot

13:10

these days. Totally. So

13:13

one of the main things we're here to

13:15

talk about is your role organizing community events.

13:18

But of course, community events aren't

13:20

really the only type of organizing you've done over

13:22

the last several years. Can you talk about how

13:24

you first got into trans-organizing and

13:26

what that looked like? Yeah, sure.

13:28

I guess I first got into

13:30

trans-organizing. End of 2019, the very

13:32

beginning of 2020. So

13:36

I organized a protest against the

13:38

Seattle Public Library for hosting a

13:41

big turf group fundraiser. The

13:44

day of the protests, you got hundreds of mostly

13:46

trans people. I tried to get cis women to

13:48

come because this was a

13:50

turf group that was speaking for cis

13:52

women and saying

13:54

that trans people were a terrible threat to

13:56

cis women. But it was mostly trans

13:58

people who came, which was. great. We didn't stop

14:01

the event, but it was disrupted and they

14:03

knew that we were there. It

14:05

was good like ask community building and to show

14:07

like these people can't make

14:10

these big events without being challenged.

14:13

And I met with the like library director and

14:15

tried to make some change, but then COVID hit

14:17

and the library shut down for like a year.

14:20

During that time, I tried to

14:22

do some like online meetups, local

14:24

meetups for trans people. And

14:26

I did like, I think

14:29

it was weekly online meetups first

14:31

in Seattle area for trans people for a

14:33

while, which was nice, but it's a

14:36

little restricting. Like there's only one way you could

14:38

show up just show up and talk in this

14:40

structured event.

14:45

Yeah. So 2020 was also the BLM

14:47

and George Floyd protests. And in Seattle,

14:50

there was CHAZ, which some people call

14:52

CHOP later on, just the Capitol Hill

14:54

Autonomous Zone, which was wild

14:57

and felt revolutionary at the time, but

14:59

it was also extremely traumatic. So I

15:02

was in that kind of

15:04

vein, this kind of abolitionist vein,

15:07

and also looking to create trans community that

15:09

in 2021, I

15:12

started doing like the type of events I'm

15:14

doing now. And now it's a group of

15:16

us, not just me, but at the time

15:19

it was just me. So in 2021, I had

15:21

heard about Portland did this like picnic

15:25

for many years. It's like they call it family

15:27

reunion sometimes. I'm not sure I've been there. And

15:30

I think there was like one other long running picnic

15:32

in like a trans women picnic in New York or

15:34

something like that. I don't know. There are

15:36

probably others, but I didn't know of any others. So I

15:39

was like, why can't we do something like that here as

15:41

like lockdown is lifting, and we kind of started to feel

15:43

comfortable meeting in person outdoors

15:45

with some precautions. So

15:48

I started up, I did a trans picnic, I just

15:50

put this thing out there, threw it out into the

15:52

internet, into the void, saying, hey, this

15:54

date, this time, let's have a picnic and let's go. And

15:57

I thought this was gonna be like a

15:59

five people ago. and just hang out and eat something

16:01

on the picnic. And the

16:03

day of, somewhere between three and

16:05

500 people came, like all trans people. And

16:08

I lost a minute just to make sure

16:10

people were welcome. I put out just

16:12

my own money. I got some donuts and some

16:14

tamales. Got some buttons out around

16:16

it, stickers that gave them out. And

16:19

other than that, it was just people, telling people to

16:21

come and hang out. As

16:23

like the feedback I got, like at

16:25

the very end of it, like these trans,

16:27

I think there were teens, I don't know.

16:29

It's hard to tell trans age, but I

16:32

think there are teenagers that came up to me and were like, this

16:34

is the best day of my life. So

16:37

many people were asking, how many, what's the

16:39

next one? Let's do this all the time.

16:41

So I was like, okay, I wasn't planning

16:43

on doing this, but I guess

16:45

I gotta do another one. This is so impactful. I

16:47

mean, that feels good to do something that's good for

16:49

community. So that year I

16:51

did another event, that was a beach day,

16:54

because like going to the beach

16:56

is very fraught for a lot of trans people. So

16:58

just having a big group of people going to the

17:00

beach was nice. Again, about three,

17:02

500 people showed up there. And

17:05

then I did a trans-Aween Halloween

17:07

event, which is also outdoors and

17:09

about the same number of people. And that

17:11

again, I thought was good because Halloween is

17:14

very fraught for trans people as

17:16

well. I mean, one of the- But it's

17:18

also the most transgender holiday. So it's nice

17:20

to get to celebrate at the gallery. Exactly,

17:22

yeah. I don't like telling people

17:24

what to do. Like people organize in all

17:26

kinds of different ways, but don't

17:29

do the transgiving stuff, please. Oh, yeah,

17:31

no, for sure. Trans-Aween

17:33

is like, I don't

17:35

know, a little Eurocentric and all

17:38

this, but transgiving is

17:40

like celebrating genocide and all.

17:42

No, don't do that. No

17:44

transgiving, no trans-Lumba stay. That's the

17:47

whole thing is, I think you're the one

17:49

who said like trans of July. Like it's

17:51

like, if you wouldn't do trans

17:53

of July, which you shouldn't, don't do

17:55

trans-giving. So I

17:57

think that, you know, beach day picnic, pretty

17:59

sus- explanatory in some ways. Can you talk

18:02

about some of your bigger events like Transland,

18:04

Transcamp, and what went into putting those together?

18:06

Yeah, so that was the first year 2021.

18:08

So 2022, like, I reflected back, I got

18:10

some feedback, I

18:14

like throwing out surveys out there, anonymous surveys

18:17

to get feedback. And the

18:20

biggest feedback I got from other people was

18:22

that like, this is great big around trans

18:24

people, but it's really awkward meeting new people

18:26

when we're just like trans people standing sitting

18:28

around together in a park. And for myself,

18:31

I met a lot of people like I like had

18:33

very brief interactions

18:36

with a lot of people, which is

18:38

good in itself. I mean, well, a lot

18:40

of those people I met again and again

18:42

and got to know better. But

18:44

for me, I didn't make any like

18:46

good friends from those events, from

18:49

people who just showed up. So like both

18:51

for myself and for other people, I was

18:53

thinking about what we

18:55

could do to like make closer connection.

18:58

So something I really missed

19:00

with my cis friends weren't my friends

19:02

anymore, which is a long story. But

19:05

we used to do group camping, like we're in a

19:07

big group campsite, I just like have it all for

19:10

ourselves. I thought how wonderful would that

19:12

be to be like, make our own

19:14

space, not just like in a

19:16

public park, but just our own space in the

19:18

wilderness, with only trans people,

19:20

where we can like, be free to do

19:23

what we want, like, no structure,

19:25

like you have to sit here and talk

19:27

to people like, if people wanted

19:29

to like, just hang out in their

19:31

tent, come out once in a while when they have energy and

19:33

talk to folks and go back to the tent, that's fine. People

19:36

want to gather groups and go

19:39

hiking or see nature, that's great. If they

19:41

want to hang out and share food, do whatever

19:43

they want, like very free to do what they

19:45

want in these places. So I

19:47

started a trans camp in 2022, where

19:49

we'd get a big group campground. And

19:51

that was fantastic. But it

19:53

was very sad in that

19:56

I got so many applications, like the

19:58

site can hold maybe

20:01

40-45 people, but I

20:03

got well over 100 applications with

20:06

very minimal advertising. And

20:08

it was fantastic. It was wonderful. It

20:10

was a rainy day, unfortunately, a rainy

20:13

few days, but it

20:15

was still fabulous. I made

20:18

great friends there and like a lot of

20:20

other folks who I still talk to and

20:22

know to this day. So we

20:24

did a couple of those, which were amazing.

20:26

And then I thought, like

20:29

next year, what can we do next year

20:31

that's different? And these camping

20:33

events were short, like two or three

20:36

nights. And I kept

20:38

having to deny people. And like if I

20:40

promoted even more, there would be probably hundreds

20:42

of people flying. So I thought, what

20:44

if we just get a much bigger site

20:47

at a much longer time? So

20:50

in 2023, we did still the same events.

20:52

Every year we were doing a picnic and

20:54

beach day in Transaweet and we

20:57

did a Trans camp, but I added this

20:59

thing I called Transland, or we called Transland,

21:01

which was we booked

21:03

a summer camp facility and reserved

21:07

it for an entire week. And rather

21:09

than, I never did summer camp as a kid,

21:11

but my understanding is that

21:13

summer camps are typically very

21:16

structured. It's a scheduled type of thing,

21:18

which I didn't want to do. I wanted to make it like, this

21:21

is still following in my mind,

21:23

the tradition of abolitionism. We

21:26

weren't like abolishing existing structures so much

21:28

in this way, but we're creating something

21:30

new. I guess the opposite side of

21:32

abolitionism is what you create in the

21:34

place where you're going to abolish things. So I

21:36

wanted folks to come in and like create

21:38

things on their own. We would

21:40

do some things, but other things people

21:42

would organize on their own. And it

21:45

was extremely successful. I could

21:47

have organized the kitchen a little bit more. That was

21:49

a bit of chaos. But

21:51

other than that, it was unstructured. We had one first

21:54

night of as an intro and one ending event that

21:57

we asked everyone to go to, but some people I'm

21:59

sure did. even go to those. Other

22:01

than that, people organize their own things or a

22:03

lot of like, all kinds of stuff.

22:05

And there are always like multiple things going on at

22:07

the same time that people could do or they could

22:10

just hang out on a hammock or that

22:12

sort of thing. And we did some fun things like we

22:14

had our private beach. So we got a bunch of

22:16

like beach toys. I got a

22:19

ball pit, which like, so

22:22

much work footage again, making this

22:24

ball pit, a big ball pit,

22:26

inspired by Dashcon, which

22:28

some people may know, but look at them.

22:31

And we had an outdoor screen

22:33

with a projector that we had

22:35

movie night, like played video games

22:37

on the big screen. It

22:39

was a blast. And the feedback from

22:42

that was so incredibly positive. A

22:45

lot of the people are still in touch and

22:47

friends from that. So it was amazing. My

22:50

takeaway from that was that it was way

22:52

too much work for me. I got so

22:54

overwhelmed. I had mental health took

22:56

like a big cat because I took so

22:59

many events of this at a time. I

23:01

think through today we've done, I counted like

23:03

22 events. So this year,

23:06

we're kind of taking one thing at a time,

23:08

we're doing a smaller trans land. We

23:11

just did a trans day of snack thing, which

23:13

was cute, relatively small. We gave away

23:15

like 120 donuts, trans donuts.

23:17

There's this donut shop locally that makes

23:20

vegan donuts. And we

23:22

gave away daffodils and people hung out in

23:24

the park. It was cute. But

23:26

yeah, we're taking things one day at a time.

23:28

And I'm also like, working more with

23:30

my organizing group, which came together last year

23:33

with trans land. But we're

23:35

still working with the organizing group

23:37

to like share responsibility and share

23:39

leadership some more. Yeah,

23:42

you mentioned that you were planning

23:44

these events by yourself

23:46

originally. And now you're doing it with

23:48

co organizers. And I recognize

23:51

from my experience that it in

23:54

some ways is such a beautiful release when other people

23:56

do some of the work that you're used to doing

23:58

but in another way hard to let

24:01

go of being in control of

24:03

all of it. So how has that transition

24:05

been from doing everything yourself

24:07

to working with a group of other people who have their

24:10

own ideas about how things should be done? It's

24:13

very difficult for me, personally. Like

24:15

I overthink these things and have like a

24:18

pretty clear vision of what I want things

24:20

to look like. So it's

24:22

been very difficult. Like the first time I

24:24

tried to get co-organizers, I just thought, who

24:27

am I to be deciding how things go?

24:29

I'll just like, put some ask out to

24:31

the community. And if people are interested, even

24:33

if I don't know them, I'll bring them in

24:36

and like we could organize together. That

24:38

did work very well. The people

24:40

were nice, but like everybody had very

24:42

different ideas of what to do. And

24:45

I actually canceled my first attempt at a trans camp

24:48

because we just couldn't get on

24:50

the same page together. But then

24:52

I instead of doing that, what I did is

24:54

just as I started doing

24:56

these events, I put feelers out, people were

24:58

interested, like the people that seemed most interested

25:01

in what I was doing, and like were

25:03

kind of aligned and liked kind of the

25:05

direction and vision these were taking. I'd

25:08

bring those people in and like, we talked

25:10

a lot about philosophy as like

25:13

culture and direction and the vision

25:15

of these events. And

25:17

some people would join at like,

25:20

either because of time or because they weren't really on

25:22

the same page, they would kind of drop. Other

25:25

people like got more and more involved, they're really interested

25:27

in this. So I think it's important to have like,

25:29

a similar vision, even

25:32

if they have different ideas. And

25:34

it was really difficult for me

25:36

at first to like, accept other

25:38

ideas. Even if they were like

25:41

similar to mine, I would say no a lot. I

25:44

was in a nice way. But I

25:47

don't know, it's a lot about trust, like getting

25:49

folks on the same page, getting

25:51

them more and more involved. So they may start with

25:53

a very volunteer event.

25:57

And as they get more and more involved, we have more

25:59

and more experience. trust among each other. And

26:02

as we're organizing our Trans Lab 2, this year

26:04

it's much different than the first one. There are

26:06

folks who have been involved for a while and

26:09

they've done great work and I trust them more to

26:11

make decisions on their own. So it's

26:14

been a process and it's gonna continue to be a

26:16

process. That's a big focus this year for me to

26:19

have my core organizers do some

26:21

more. Yeah, my friend

26:23

Betty, who I worked at, met at the first

26:25

Trans Camp, is

26:27

leading a Montana

26:30

Trans Camp, which is really exciting. And

26:32

actually just did his first event, which was a Trans

26:35

Dance snack in Missoula, which was very

26:37

cute. So yeah, as

26:39

I trust each other, people trust me

26:41

more, I think it's becoming more and

26:43

more easy to let people take the

26:46

lead. Yeah, maybe you

26:48

just answered this, but I'm curious

26:50

how organizing these events has changed

26:53

your life and your relationship

26:55

to trans community. Yeah,

26:57

so I get no money out of this. I've

27:00

actually spent all of my money on it, but

27:02

these are community events. The purpose of these

27:05

is to grow community. It's

27:07

not promoting organizations or selling

27:09

things or fundraising or things

27:11

like that. The

27:14

real true purpose is to grow community for

27:17

others, but also myself. So

27:19

it's been very successful

27:21

in getting me connections

27:23

with trans community. It's

27:26

been pretty successful in making me closer

27:29

friends. And I

27:32

think that's very, very

27:34

important for trans folks.

27:36

Some trans folks may be

27:38

happy without trans community,

27:41

without knowing trans people. But

27:43

I think for a lot

27:45

of trans people, maybe most trans people,

27:47

it's so important for building

27:49

up resilience, like mental

27:51

health resilience, but also like result

27:55

in resources. Like if

27:57

you're in the financial trouble, you

28:01

don't have like a supportive community out

28:03

there. You could

28:05

reach out to organizations but if

28:08

you have like folks you could ask

28:10

and like for mutual aid for money

28:13

or finding a place to live to

28:16

or moving to a different

28:18

town or just like understanding

28:20

more about finding

28:22

jobs in the local area. It's so

28:24

helpful to have that community out there. So

28:26

for me that's been important. I didn't really

28:28

have much of that before I

28:30

started doing this but

28:33

I think it's been helpful for other people too.

28:35

I know it has been actually. Yeah it seems

28:37

like a lot of the friends that you've made

28:40

through this organizing are significantly

28:43

younger than you like Gen Z and it's

28:45

been really cool from my end to

28:48

see you create these like

28:50

intergenerational friendships and I'm curious

28:52

like what you learned

28:54

from being around so many younger trans people

28:56

and whether you think they're

28:58

learning anything from you or if they're just like you're

29:01

a thousand years old and it's the use time now. Sending

29:05

out these events especially through

29:07

social media and places where younger

29:09

people go it's just gonna

29:12

be like a lot of younger people

29:14

because so many more younger

29:16

people are trans or out

29:18

trans. So for

29:21

our CAP events we do applications

29:23

and we try to prioritize people

29:25

who are like more marginalized so

29:28

BIPOC folks, older folks, disabled folks,

29:31

otherwise socially isolated folks but

29:34

still we don't get a lot of

29:36

applications from older trans folks. I

29:38

don't know the answer why older folks

29:40

aren't applying and that's something we want to

29:42

address but yeah a lot of folks are

29:45

younger which I never

29:47

expected to have like a bunch

29:49

of friends in their like early

29:51

mid-twenties but it's really cool like

29:54

get to learn about warrior

29:57

Cats and references from the Gen

29:59

Z. The original base but really

30:01

surprised is the opposite. Like after that

30:03

first treads can I put a survey

30:05

out? I like. I got three I

30:07

think. People. Who wrote about

30:09

how amazing it was to be.

30:12

Around older treads, folks in of

30:14

thoroughly a few of us who

30:16

like. thirties. Forties or

30:18

older, but I'm. Not.

30:21

Really surprised me. By. Yeah,

30:23

it's it's been wonderful items. That.

30:25

Is threads of like. Different. Shudder

30:27

a serves as well as

30:29

like different backgrounds I'd pick

30:32

our of ads today to

30:34

attract. folks. At

30:36

the margins. And. Saw.

30:39

Sometimes means like by Parker

30:41

Olsen and disabled folks. But.

30:44

What art of as i think attract more of is like.

30:47

Next. Row site for a

30:49

second generation overcrowds. People were

30:51

just moved here. To

30:53

thaw kinds of folks that like their art. Individual.

30:57

About for those people. So.

30:59

Yeah, just like Africa, but spaces fantastic.

31:02

So. There's. Been

31:04

this apparent influx in like gender

31:06

segregated trans tic tac. Like? there's

31:08

the long running. New. York

31:10

Trans Girl picnic which I completely understand

31:13

but then there's also like T Boy

31:15

picnics and response and then I think

31:17

at least one like non binary specific

31:20

picnic and something about your events is

31:22

ah, you don't segregate those bases which

31:24

rules because you get to see all

31:26

sorts of different types of trans people

31:29

as you mentioned, but you are also

31:31

prioritizing side groups of people like specifically

31:33

Trance you pull of color and other

31:36

people for the margins that you're just

31:38

describing. I saw a couple questions. Here

31:40

by I mean how do you feel about the

31:42

picnic trends? Ah

31:45

well. first of all, i

31:47

don't have feel that picked it's a

31:49

jot are all totally i started doing

31:51

a pet duck because i did a

31:54

little cicala just going out at a

31:56

part in haiti out but picnics themselves

31:58

or for zero subtract out Have

32:00

in certain areas kind of a racist

32:02

path So picnics in

32:04

general are a little iffy. I don't know if

32:07

we're gonna do picnics in the future But

32:09

yeah, I haven't been to these events.

32:11

I don't know the organizers, but it's so wild

32:13

in New York City There's a trans girl picnic.

32:16

There's a trans boy picnic and an

32:18

all-by-air a picnic and I've talked

32:20

to a lot of people about it like When

32:23

I talked to like trans stems trans

32:25

women like what their thoughts

32:27

are and like trans women and trans have specific

32:29

events 100% of time I hear

32:31

the reason for it is because they

32:34

don't feel safe or welcome in other Queer

32:36

and trans spaces so they need to make their

32:38

own, right? I've also asked trans

32:41

mask people and trans man

32:43

trans boys t-boys about

32:45

why they like These

32:48

segregated events and when I always hear is like

32:51

We like to talk about trans

32:54

mask things like if we talk about

32:57

T-gel or Top

32:59

surgery. Yeah, what if you

33:01

can do that anywhere? Sorry? So

33:07

trans women that's completely fine and

33:09

you might get something out of it to

33:11

try to have another experience around Testosterone

33:14

and these things there's no reason

33:16

to have it separate and

33:18

it just the trans Moscovans

33:21

that specifically exclude trans women some

33:23

of them say specifically no trans

33:25

women or no trans fans Just

33:28

step back into the context of

33:31

the world that trans women and

33:33

trans femmes and other trans people are

33:35

living in where women

33:38

spaces like tens hundreds

33:40

of millions of Sis

33:42

women out there. I think trans women absolutely

33:44

do not belong in their women spaces their

33:47

bathrooms their sports They're like

33:50

social events like this

33:52

is a context where there's so many

33:54

different spaces queer spaces women spaces All

33:56

kinds of spaces that specifically are saying

33:58

trans women are not welcome.

34:00

And then you go to like a

34:03

trans space and like

34:05

these trans spaces are saying trans women are

34:07

not welcome. Some of them explicitly say no

34:09

trans women, but some of them if it's

34:11

like a t-boy event or trans

34:13

masc event and it says oh but all trans

34:16

people are welcome. It's like

34:18

still how welcome are you if it's like

34:20

call it a trans masc or trans t-boy

34:22

event. Like there may

34:24

be a good reason to have some of these

34:26

events but I think like you should

34:28

say what that reason is. You

34:31

have to be on a reason like say

34:33

it out loud like so that

34:35

trans women trans fems like no

34:38

it's not just because you hate trans women trans

34:40

fems. Right. Or if you do I guess

34:42

you should say that too. Truly.

34:46

Which some of them low-key are

34:48

right like by doing it. Yeah

34:51

I think like okay have a trans masc

34:53

only no trans women event but I

34:56

suggest just having an icebreaker at the

34:58

beginning go around say your name I

35:01

guess say your pronouns and then

35:03

say why you're perpetuating the exclusion

35:05

of trans women from before things.

35:07

Why you're doing trans misogyny. I

35:10

mean but that's the thing is like the thing

35:12

that I kept saying when this came up most recently

35:14

is like if there is

35:16

a need for a support group I

35:19

can understand that in as far

35:21

as if trans masc

35:23

want to talk about the

35:26

oppression that they're suffering it might be

35:28

actually respectful for them to do it

35:30

in a space where trans women don't

35:32

have to listen to it because

35:35

maybe that's annoying. So maybe you have a support

35:37

group where you're like I want to talk about

35:39

misogyny experienced by me as a man. I want

35:42

to talk about you know how I'm grappling

35:44

with my masculinity whatever. Sure. But when it's

35:46

a picnic the concept of a picnic is

35:49

a frivolous social event and it's like why

35:51

are you excluding a bunch of fun cool

35:53

hot people from your frivolous social event. Like

35:55

I just don't understand so for all the

35:57

reasons you said I 100% co-assigned But

36:00

I also just really want to clarify because I've

36:02

heard that as the main argument is like shouldn't

36:05

Trans guys get to talk to each other and it's

36:07

like yeah, they can But

36:09

like also just text your friend, you know,

36:11

like go to the picnic go to Jericho's

36:13

picnic meet some trans guys You'll

36:15

know who they are They're the ones with no shirt

36:18

on and then meet them get

36:20

their number talk to them later about your problems

36:22

You know, you don't have to I don't know.

36:24

I just think the public displays of Misogyny

36:27

are so strange to me like just

36:29

why why do it? And

36:34

again, I don't know there could be a reason out there But

36:38

there are a lot of them out there actually now I try to

36:40

follow groups around the

36:42

world that are organizing similar like community

36:44

driven events and there's so many trans

36:46

masks and T-boy

36:49

a lot of them call them T-boy events around

36:51

the world like you could change that like

36:53

it's completely fine You can just change it

36:56

to like trans event or trans cool people

36:59

And start a big more welcoming it

37:01

also it's not only signals to trans

37:03

women But it also like the

37:06

more you segregate the types

37:08

of people that you

37:11

invite to your event The

37:14

more people at the margins of that

37:16

don't feel welcome So like to

37:19

be real like looking at the pictures

37:21

of these trans masks and T-boy events

37:25

Almost all white. Mm-hmm. I just visually from

37:27

the photos even in places like Seattle

37:30

is a city that's two-thirds white So it's

37:32

very difficult not to have a white majority

37:34

space if you're having a general trans event

37:36

some of these places like white people are

37:38

like a third or less of the population

37:40

and still The place is almost

37:43

all white and like people

37:45

who are like maybe not binary

37:47

that don't completely Feel

37:49

trans masks. They don't feel as welcome

37:51

either. It's just What

37:54

kind of spaces you're trying to make just like Think

37:56

about that and think about the messaging you send out

37:58

as you create these events Yeah,

38:00

can you talk actually about the way that you

38:02

create spaces that prioritize

38:05

trans people of color? Not

38:07

just by saying trans we're prioritizing

38:10

BIPOC trans people on the flyer Which you do

38:12

say but like other ways that you think about

38:14

being intentional about the way that people are included

38:16

Yeah, so for

38:18

our trans camp trans land events

38:21

There's our application based and we

38:23

say out loud that this

38:25

is going to be a BIPOC majority event

38:28

So based on the what people write

38:30

in their applications We

38:32

highly prioritize BIPOC folks and

38:34

other other marginalized folks So

38:37

we've always had BIPOC majority spaces, which have

38:39

been fantastic. A lot of people

38:41

love that. I love that It's been great for

38:44

our other events that are like the day

38:46

events that we just invite all

38:48

trans people to come out to It's been very difficult.

38:51

I think all of those type events

38:53

have been majority white but over

38:56

time we've done things like there

38:59

are some like very White

39:02

heavy or white exclusive organizations that would like kind

39:04

of ask to be a part of it or

39:06

do something during there At first I

39:09

said yes, just because anyone interested my that I

39:11

was excited about I started to

39:13

like say no That's what I mean. It's cool

39:15

what you're doing, but let's not do that Which

39:18

I try to do center like white

39:21

culture Like at first I was

39:23

paying for food to give to people but so many

39:25

people started showing up like our 2022 trans

39:29

picnics had about 1200 trans

39:31

people come which And

39:34

less the most claims that all stands the biggest

39:36

trans picnic a top But there's probably trans prides

39:38

or things like that with more people, but

39:40

there's a lot of people So we

39:43

were able to get grants luckily

39:45

to with no strings attached That

39:48

we pay for food for folks and

39:50

we make sure that's like not traditionally

39:53

white people food like at a picnic

39:55

dot like Sandwiches and

39:57

potato salad that sort of thing. We

39:59

just find it eat that, but it just

40:02

kind of signals who the event's for. But

40:04

you have that food. It's just why we have a point of

40:06

potlucks too, because one, it

40:10

would be chaos to organize not with that

40:12

many people, but also just if

40:14

it's going to be majority white or close to majority

40:16

white, it's going to be majority white

40:19

food, I guess. So we've

40:21

done things like that. We

40:23

did start saying on every

40:26

promotion, social media promotion, we do

40:28

say, BIPOC folks

40:31

very welcome, which I think does make

40:33

a difference. Not a huge

40:35

difference, but at least let folks

40:37

know that we're thinking of

40:39

them and we want them to feel welcome, which

40:42

has made it a larger

40:44

proportion of BIPOC over time. And

40:47

then what we did last year is started to do

40:50

affinity groups, so even

40:53

if it is majority white overall, we

40:56

encourage people to make signs, and if

40:58

they want to have a

41:00

BIPOC group, Black trans group,

41:02

East Asian trans group, indigenous trans group,

41:05

whatever it might be, Deaf trans group, or

41:07

just interests as well, like

41:10

communists or people or mask-conscious

41:12

people, face

41:16

mask-conscious people, that

41:19

sort of thing. They can make signs for that.

41:21

So even if it's a majority white space, just

41:23

because we're in the middle of Seattle, we

41:26

can have spaces that aren't within

41:28

that. So we're trying a

41:30

lot of things. It's a lot of experimentation and

41:32

iteration of learning. I don't pretend to like that

41:34

we're doing everything perfectly. We're constantly

41:37

learning. I know that you

41:39

and I are both like low-key hoping that

41:41

this episode will inspire and enable other people

41:44

to put events together, so big broad question,

41:46

but what advice do you have for new

41:48

potential organizers? Great question,

41:50

and yes, he definitely wants to encourage folks

41:52

to do this. So I

41:54

can give advice, but this is coming out of my

41:57

experience in Seattle, which is going...

42:00

be a lot different from other places. Like

42:02

Seattle is one, relatively

42:05

trans-friendly overall. I mean, there's

42:07

definitely like the white majority

42:09

and it's not

42:12

as comfortable for a lot of BIPOC

42:14

folks, but overall as far as

42:16

like things like laws go, we have

42:18

no problem having trans events in the

42:21

park and safety

42:23

is a concern, but I'm sure it's less

42:25

a concern than other places. And we

42:28

have different trans and queer organizations that kind of got

42:30

to share our events to get the word out, that

42:33

kind of thing. At least now

42:35

we have a huge follow-up. Social media

42:37

before then, that was really helpful. It's

42:40

also kind of a wealthy

42:42

city. I looked up the

42:45

media and household income of people in Seattle.

42:48

It's $150,000 is the media. But that means like

42:50

half of the people you come across,

42:56

the world made more than that as

42:59

a household. So that makes sense as a

43:01

household of like six trans people, I guess.

43:03

It's a place which

43:06

like, I mean, there's

43:08

still a lot of poverty. There's a lot

43:10

of unhoused people, especially

43:12

among trans people. So some

43:14

of this might not translate to other

43:16

places, but one, it's

43:18

like we were lucky

43:20

to get grants because there are like queer

43:23

foundations and organizations that give out grants

43:25

that we're like, yeah, we're lucky to

43:27

get no strings attached. Some grants like

43:29

you to like do what they

43:31

tell you to do or report back and meet

43:33

their metrics or whatever. We never had to give

43:36

that. They just got no strings attached, which is

43:38

fantastic. Like most, almost all places

43:40

that come in the Bay Area have less in

43:43

the way of those kind of grants. But

43:47

there's also the gender reveal grant

43:49

in October. So if anyone

43:51

wants to think ahead, that

43:53

is an opportunity to get some funding for a little

43:55

event, no strings attached. And Jerika

43:57

is always involved in choosing

44:00

who gets what grant. And

44:02

so we smile

44:05

upon these type of events, is all I

44:07

was gonna say. Yeah, definitely. And

44:10

if you do that, it's good if you have

44:12

some kind of history of

44:14

doing something, even if

44:16

it's a small event, so it shows that you

44:18

can do it. And also if

44:20

you have specific plans, it helps,

44:23

just because there's so many grant applications

44:25

it's hard to sort through. So standing

44:27

out really helps. You

44:30

don't need many to do this. Probably

44:32

most places don't have

44:35

any funding. The bare minimum you

44:37

need to do is just decide on a place and

44:39

a time to meet and then tell people to do that. So

44:42

there are a lot of ways to do

44:44

that. Just think about a location that is

44:47

accessible, particularly for the marginalized folks

44:49

in your community. If you're

44:52

in a segregated city, which

44:54

is at least in North America, that's pretty much

44:56

everywhere, don't pick like the

44:58

whitest air supply town of that. And

45:01

somewhere accessible by transit, if possible,

45:03

is great. For

45:05

promoting, you can use

45:08

Canva. That's what most people who make events

45:10

for, to make a

45:12

little graphic that's like Instagram friendly and

45:14

wherever else you choose to do it. I typically

45:17

rely on Instagram these days. There's

45:19

a lot of people on Facebook, especially older folks.

45:23

There's LACS. You

45:25

can reach out to other organizations to

45:27

share. But I think mostly these days,

45:29

Instagram is the main place where people

45:32

get a follow-up. I get the word

45:35

out for their events. There

45:37

are also mailing lists. We started a mailing list

45:39

too for people who don't use social media. I

45:42

mean, there's also old school's ways to do it

45:44

if you're more comfortable with that, like putting up

45:46

flyers in queer centers or talking to queer centers.

45:49

I'd be a little wary of things like postering because you

45:51

don't want the attention from wrong people. I

45:53

mean, maybe even TikTok, I don't know. Again, TikTok

45:56

and Instagram reels and stuff like that might

45:58

get to the wrong. audience. I

46:01

put out one Instagram real once and I

46:03

got all these trans vote comments. I'm

46:05

not doing that again. I

46:07

encourage people to be thoughtful about...

46:11

we try to be very intentional

46:14

about being welcoming to trans

46:16

people at the margins and

46:18

allowing people to engage how

46:20

they would like to engage.

46:22

So essentially

46:24

not being... I don't know a better word

46:26

for it, but not being paternalistic. Not telling

46:28

people there's only one way to come. Not

46:31

having specific scheduled things they do. And

46:33

part of that's my background. Like I...

46:35

in my past especially

46:38

extremely socially anxious. I

46:40

can imagine my younger days going to like

46:42

a trans event but only like looking at

46:44

the margins and like believing until I feel

46:46

more comfortable. So allowing people

46:49

to like engage how they like to.

46:51

And that's like also a way

46:53

to fight

46:55

colonial and white supremacist views on

46:58

how you should act. One

47:00

area I see this a lot in these days

47:02

is we're very COVID

47:05

conscious. But for outdoor

47:07

events, especially at a public park, it's

47:09

very difficult to like... one,

47:12

require masks and

47:14

to enforce them. Especially

47:17

when people are eating. But

47:20

being outdoors in a

47:22

place that's not like very crowded, like a

47:24

crowded concert or sporting event, the

47:26

risks are pretty low. We encourage

47:28

people to wear masks. We allow, like I

47:30

said, affinity groups of mask areas. And as

47:34

far as I know for all our events which thousands of

47:36

people have come to at these... since

47:38

now we've never had a case of

47:40

COVID transmitted. That... they may have been meant that I

47:42

didn't know about. People

47:45

still get so angry at me. Like people

47:47

have been terrible to me. Like people have

47:49

told me like I'm committing genocide against BIPOC

47:51

trans people. Like just terrible things.

47:54

They told me that also. Oh my god. Yeah.

47:56

Just because like I don't

47:58

say masks to the crowd because it... can't enforce

48:00

it. And it's

48:02

like, from scientific perspective,

48:05

safer than like an enclosed event

48:08

where masks are on like, I'm

48:11

coming from a place like, I'm East

48:13

Asian, we have a history of wearing

48:15

masks, I've worn masks for years. But

48:17

there's not only one way to do

48:19

things, you could like make suggestions, make

48:21

your case, be

48:23

open to listening, people might have others perspectives

48:26

than you that aren't necessarily worse. And

48:29

we're trying our best, even a vet where people

48:31

say no trans women, trans basketball,

48:33

I believe they're trying their best, I'm not going

48:36

to yell at them and call them names, just

48:38

be kind to each other, we get enough hate

48:40

from other places. I don't know if this is

48:42

true for you at all. But like the people

48:45

who are yelling at us about events that we're

48:47

doing here in New York, are not people who

48:49

live in New York who are thinking about going

48:51

to the events. They're just random

48:53

Instagram users who saw a flyer from

48:56

another part of the world and are like, I don't

48:58

like the way that you're throwing your event over there.

49:00

And it's like, okay, well, there's no world in which

49:02

you are coming to this event, you're literally just found

49:04

a thing to get mad at. And so for me,

49:06

I'm always happy to have a conversation with

49:09

people about whether or not

49:11

they want to, you know, come to something

49:13

that I'm producing for gender reveal or whatever.

49:16

But I would like it to be someone who

49:18

is thinking about going. It's like community versus

49:20

just like, someone finding someone to yell at.

49:22

Yeah, yeah. And it's important

49:25

that not every event is for

49:27

everyone. And I know that mostly

49:29

impacts the marginalized among us. But

49:31

there's no such thing as an

49:33

accessible event, because

49:35

accessibility needs conflict.

49:38

Like, someone wanted to take a

49:40

large dog to one of our

49:42

transcript events. It wasn't a

49:44

trade service dog. But I have

49:47

a terrible fear of large dogs. As

49:49

the organizer, I need to be around every

49:51

place. So like, I mean, is it

49:54

going to be accessible for them? Or is it going

49:56

to be accessible for me? Right. And

49:58

it's just very difficult. to like hold

50:01

all these different things. Yeah.

50:03

I don't know. Okay.

50:06

The way we always on the show is by

50:09

asking in your ideal world, what would the

50:11

future of gender look like? So

50:13

I don't know what my ideal world would look like.

50:15

I don't know how to have that level of imagination

50:17

because I'm so focused on

50:20

trying to like do something in

50:22

this world. But I

50:24

guess they have like three

50:27

predictions or hopes for

50:30

this world. I feel terrible

50:32

for saying, answering this

50:34

question about an ideal world to talk about

50:36

this world because that feels very

50:39

not ideal. What

50:41

I think the

50:43

future of gender includes a lot

50:46

more pseudo genders. We've

50:49

talked about like the gender census that comes out

50:51

every year. That's been going on for 10 years.

50:53

I don't know who does it, but

50:56

I think it's gendercensus.com. Where

50:58

they ask people online what

51:01

pronouns they use, what genders

51:03

they identify as, that sort

51:05

of thing. And in recent

51:07

years, like neo-pronouns and

51:09

not the traditional neo-pronouns, but neo-pronouns

51:12

like including it, it's skyrocketed. Like

51:14

when they started, it was like

51:17

somewhere in the range of like 3% of

51:19

people like it, it's and like last year it was

51:21

20% of people. And

51:23

this is very skewed towards younger people who

51:25

answer this. And then all

51:28

kinds of zedogenders are coming up. So I

51:30

cannot wait for jed alpha to come up

51:32

and fight the zedogender fight. I mean, yeah.

51:35

Number two, and this is

51:37

based on a bolded ad

51:39

that said cisnax t-shirts. Oh,

51:41

cis men start calling

51:44

themselves cisnax and seaboys. That's

51:47

what I would like a mature gender. Beautiful.

51:50

Which I could also imagine happening with like jed alpha.

51:53

We'll see. And

51:55

three, the more warm and fuzzy

51:57

one is like, I hope everybody gets

51:59

trans- community who wants it,

52:01

both like close trans friends,

52:04

trans acquaintances and other folks,

52:06

and also a greater community

52:08

that could share resources and

52:11

things like that. Oh,

52:13

and for freedom and

52:16

reparations for Palestine and everywhere

52:19

else colonialism has destroyed

52:21

for both queer folks and

52:23

everyone else there. That's

52:30

going to do it for this week's

52:32

show. If you had a good time

52:34

or learned something, please share this episode

52:37

with folks in your community. You can

52:39

find Jerica's events on Instagram at SeattleTransJoy

52:41

and at seattletransjoy.com. You can find us

52:44

on Patreon at patreon.com/gender. That's where you

52:46

can get access to our weekly newsletter

52:48

and dozens of bonus episodes. We are

52:51

also on Instagram and at genderpodcast.com where

52:53

we've got transcripts available for every episode.

52:56

This episode was produced and edited by Ozzie

52:58

Lena Skidman and by me, Tuck Woodstock. Our

53:01

logo is by Ira M. Lai. Our theme

53:03

song is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Additional

53:06

music by our friends at the Glutout Sessions.

53:08

We'll be back next week with more

53:11

feelings about gender. Free

53:13

Palestine. You

53:24

mentioned warrior cats and there was that

53:27

unofficial survey of what the most common trans or

53:29

non-binary names were. I forget the exact wording, but

53:31

I remember you looking at that list and being

53:33

like, it's like 50% warrior cat

53:35

name by volume. And I was like, what?

53:40

Yeah, I don't know if that's coincidence or

53:42

not, but like all the different warrior cats

53:44

names are often trans

53:46

names. It's incredible. I don't know. I

53:48

tried to read warrior cats, but too

53:52

violent for me. I don't know. It's pretty

53:54

brutal. No, no. I don't know. I don't

53:56

want to read cat violence. Are they cats?

53:58

They're cats. Yeah, I don't. They're

54:00

very angry and violent towards

54:03

each other.