Zan Kaufman started a movement when she began Bleecker in 2012. She upped the burger game - using the best beef and keeping things simple yet delicious. Little wonder it's still got cult status seven years later. 

Now they've opened their fourth permanent site - likely to be their busiest yet - and we catch up with Zan to discuss the highs and lows of running a food business. We record in Old Spitalfields Market so excuse the background noise.

A new mum, she also talks about motherhood after she and her wife had a baby (and all the annoying things people say when you're a parent in a same-sex relationship). 

She also reveals what led her and The Butchery - their beef supplier for the last 7 years - to part ways, and who they're now getting their beef from.

And good news - the Bleecker Black may be making a return, finally. 

Get Back In The Kitchen is a podcast about women in food. It celebrates everyone from those running world-famous kitchens to those providing brilliant food on a smaller scale. it also looks at issues facing women working in food.

It's run by Melissa Thompson, a journalist-turned-pop up cook, who now runs food & recipe project Fowl Mouths Food. 

You can follow her at @fowlmouthsfood and the podcast at @getbackinthekitchen.