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It's difficult to change the way people

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think ballet should be, and I

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felt like I had a purpose,

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which is to exist in these white

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spaces and succeed and

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change the narrative. That's

1:00

ballet dancer Misty Copeland. She

1:03

made history in twenty fifteen when

1:05

she became the first black woman ever

1:08

to be promoted to principal dancer

1:10

at the American Ballet Theater. When

1:13

she's off stage, Copeland

1:15

is committed to making more communities

1:17

feel like bay belong in

1:20

the world of ballet. I

1:22

feel like that's something that I've taken on

1:24

as a responsibility. Copeland's

1:27

interest in music and movement drew her to

1:29

ballet at a young age. It

1:31

was her creative outlet and escape,

1:34

and as she progressed, ballet both nurtured

1:37

and challenged her. I attribute

1:40

my success, the person that I am, all

1:42

of this to so many of

1:44

the qualities within the ballet

1:46

structure. That gave me the tools to

1:48

be successful, not just as a ballet dancer,

1:51

but as a person, as a woman, as

1:53

a leader in my community.

2:01

I'm Anita Hill. This is

2:03

Getting Even, my podcast

2:05

about equality and what it takes

2:08

to get there. On Getting

2:10

Even, I speak with people who

2:12

are improving our imperfect

2:14

world, people who took

2:17

risks and broke the rules.

2:20

In this episode, Missy Copeland and I

2:22

discuss how she journeyed from the local boys

2:24

and Girls club to the American

2:27

Ballet Theater, maneuvering

2:29

through racist politics along the

2:31

way. We also discuss

2:33

how she uses that very platform

2:35

to empower black and brown

2:38

girls. Today.

2:42

You were the first person on my list

2:45

to interview, and it's

2:47

really a tribute to all of the

2:50

wonderful things that you've done and that

2:52

you continue to do in your

2:54

professional life, as well as

2:57

the way you present outside of the ballet

2:59

world. Thank you. So, I want to just get started

3:01

with your story. Am I correct that you

3:03

started ballet at thirteen? Yes?

3:07

You are, And

3:09

I say it that way because it seems

3:11

to me that most of the people who are in

3:14

those beginning classes are like

3:16

five years old. Yes, yes,

3:19

that's true. So

3:21

what was it like for you those

3:24

first few years as somebody who

3:26

was starting much later than some of the people

3:28

who you were probably dancing with.

3:32

You know, it was an

3:34

opportunity that I feel like I was craving

3:36

and waiting for. Didn't realize

3:38

it, you know, coming from

3:41

the communities that I grew up in, being

3:43

in a single parent home and being one of six

3:46

children. But I mean I was so introverted.

3:48

I had a lot of shame that was

3:51

kind of surrounding me in terms of not

3:53

wanting people to know the circumstances

3:56

that we were living in, and

3:58

so I became this like shell

4:01

of a person. I was not involved

4:03

in any any extracurricular

4:05

activities, anything artistic

4:07

or physical in terms of sports, until

4:10

I decided at like twelve and a half that out

4:13

of nowhere that I was going to audition for the

4:15

drill team, and not just auditioned

4:17

to be on the team, but I was going to audition to be captain

4:20

of the team. And

4:23

you know, I think that it was this

4:25

evolution of having music

4:28

in my life, which was constantly around

4:30

the house, and I was always drawn to lyrics

4:32

and it was like, these are the words

4:34

I wish I could speak, and things I'm feeling,

4:37

but I'm not capable. I don't have the tools,

4:39

and movement became this outlet

4:42

with the chaos in my home, whether it was abuse,

4:45

instability, all of

4:47

that. So I auditioned for the

4:50

drill team and I made captain. A family

4:52

was shocked. They're like, to you understand that you're going

4:54

to be on stage performing for people.

4:57

And it was interesting because being

4:59

on a stage was the one space that I

5:01

felt protected. I

5:03

felt like I could express myself

5:06

and communicate to the audience, but I didn't have

5:08

to see them. They weren't going to respond

5:10

in a way that I had to address what

5:12

they were thinking or their opinion. The

5:15

teacher who was running the drill team

5:17

saw potential in me, and she suggested I

5:19

take a free ballet class that was being offered

5:21

at my local boys and Girls club. So

5:24

it was at thirteen years old that I really

5:26

entered into ballet. I took my

5:28

first ballet class on a basketball

5:31

court at my club, and the teacher,

5:33

who was teaching from the local ballet school,

5:36

she immediately said, I think you're a prodigy and

5:38

I want to take you into my school full scholarship.

5:41

She eventually invited me to live with her, and

5:44

from the moment that I stepped into her studio,

5:47

the goal was for me to dance professionally,

5:49

and American Ballet theater was always the goal.

5:52

So it was a clear vision

5:55

of what I was working towards. But I

5:58

just fell in love with this thing that gave

6:00

me a purpose, gave me a

6:02

way to grow as a human being, and

6:05

I just feel like it saved my life. You

6:07

said so many things that caught

6:09

my attention. You said there

6:12

was a teacher, there was music that

6:14

said what you wanted to say but couldn't

6:17

didn't have the artistry to say it. And

6:19

you said boys and Girls

6:22

Club. So those seem

6:24

to be the really important elements

6:26

of your life that helped you in

6:29

what you describe as an unstable

6:31

situation. Absolutely,

6:34

and all of those things are still

6:36

so important in my life. So

6:39

what music were you listening to. There's

6:42

a lot of soul and

6:45

R and B and hip hop being played

6:47

around the house. It was an array of music,

6:49

But like Anita Baker and Shade

6:52

and Aretha Franklin, there's

6:54

a lot of stuff. The one that I

6:57

really connected with was when Mariah

6:59

Carey's debut album came out, and you

7:02

know, it was the first time that I saw a

7:04

biracial woman of

7:07

her caliber, her talent, her exposure,

7:10

and I felt like I could see myself

7:12

in her. It wasn't a conscious thing

7:15

at the time, Like, it wasn't until I

7:17

was an adult that I could really decipher

7:20

what that draw was. That's

7:22

the importance of representation. It allows

7:25

for you to see possibilities and

7:27

it allows you to dream. And

7:29

you know, Mariah as a friend of mine now and

7:32

it's just funny to be able to like

7:34

share these things with her. And she's always like,

7:36

I'm not taking credit for your ballet

7:39

career. I'm like, but Maria, you

7:41

literally were like the catalysts

7:43

for everything, you

7:46

know, for this, like belief in myself

7:48

that I could do this thing that I knew nothing

7:50

about, and seeing someone who looked

7:52

like me succeeding and talented and gifted.

7:55

Well, you know. But that's an amazing thing,

7:57

is that that there are so many different influences

7:59

in each of our lives, but

8:02

that you could connect those influences

8:04

with what you ultimately

8:06

came to do. I also note that that

8:09

you had an outlet for

8:12

what was going on in your mind about

8:14

what your capabilities were, and

8:17

how important it is for people

8:20

to have ballet or

8:22

whatever it is that they set their mind

8:24

to do, have an opportunity

8:27

to find it. Yes,

8:30

but I imagine that ballet was not

8:32

available for everyone

8:34

in your area. You're absolutely right, and that's

8:37

why I'm so passionate about, first

8:40

of all, identifying the

8:42

beauty in classical dance and

8:44

all the positives that there are in

8:46

terms of like how it helped me as a young

8:48

person to develop as a human

8:51

being. That's why I'm such

8:53

an advocate for creating opportunities

8:56

for it to be accessible to more

8:58

communities and then kind of changing

9:01

the narrative and the outlook on how these

9:03

communities see dance and that

9:05

they do belong in those spaces. You

9:08

know, I attribut my success the

9:10

person that I am all of this too, So

9:13

many of the qualities within the

9:15

ballet structure that gave me

9:17

the tools to be successful not just as

9:19

a ballet dancer, but as a person, as

9:21

a woman, as a leader in my

9:24

community, and for me as

9:26

Misty the Black Ballerina.

9:28

It's kind of picking apart what

9:31

are the things that need to change and evolve in

9:33

ballet, but what are the amazing things

9:35

about it that can help so many

9:37

children right out of the box.

9:40

Let's say you were

9:42

thinking way

9:45

ahead. I mean not that you were just going to learn

9:47

ballet, but that you were going to have a career in ballet.

9:50

Yeah. Yeah,

9:53

I mean I think that says something about

9:55

who you are too. You

9:57

know, you had an ambition, you were

9:59

ambitious. I don't think that consciously

10:02

I was. I was like, I'm

10:04

focused, I'm going to be a professional, But it

10:06

was like, I love this and there's an

10:09

no way I could live my life without

10:11

having it. And then it evolved into

10:13

learning about the history of ballet,

10:15

learning about the history of American Ballet theater,

10:18

how I could possibly fit into it. Then

10:20

being brought to my first live performance

10:22

seeing ABT when I was fifteen years

10:24

old, and saying, I can see

10:26

it clearly, this is exactly what I want to

10:28

do. These are what my goals are. But

10:31

again, it was having an incredible

10:34

support system and structure around

10:36

me that allowed me to see

10:38

those things clearly. And

10:40

you were making that kind of decision

10:43

about where you would go with

10:45

the American Ballet Theater against

10:48

the backdrop of a society where black

10:50

women's bodies have been scrutinized

10:53

and misrepresented and dismissed

10:55

and oversexualized

10:57

and all kinds of ways misinterpreted.

11:00

And you were breaking into at

11:02

the time, but was a mostly

11:05

white space. That's

11:08

amazing in and of help, But I

11:10

think what is truly amazing

11:13

is that you've done it on your own terms.

11:17

Yeah, it's been quite a

11:20

journey, and there

11:22

have been people around me that have seen it clearly,

11:25

like my first ballet teacher, Cynthia Bradley,

11:27

whom I lived with and who saw

11:29

this vision from the beginning. I always thought

11:31

she was this crazy lady that was

11:33

super artistic, and I was like, yeah, Okay,

11:36

I'm just gonna keep doing what I love. You can

11:38

have your visions. But I

11:40

was in almost this protective bubble where

11:43

though I was the only black girl

11:45

for the most part in the studios

11:47

that I trained in as a young person, Cynthia

11:50

was really good about not

11:53

letting that enter

11:55

my bubble. There was a

11:57

lot going on that I didn't learn about until

11:59

I was older. There were parents who

12:02

were removing their children from the school because

12:04

I was doing the lead as a person

12:06

of color. I was taking parts

12:08

away from the child when they were giving money as

12:10

board members. You know, there's a

12:12

lot of a lot of politics

12:14

and racism happening

12:16

that a lot of black and brown

12:18

children experienced to their face

12:21

at a young age in the ballet world,

12:24

and I feel fortunate that I didn't

12:26

experience that. It wasn't until I

12:28

was a professional that I

12:30

really understood

12:32

how rare it was for me to be where I was.

12:34

You know, I was the only black woman for

12:37

the first decade of my career at ABT, and

12:40

it was a lot. It was a lot of learning

12:42

on the spot, learning on the job, but also

12:45

being vulnerable and open to having mentors

12:47

come into my life, and being fortunate

12:50

enough that people were reaching out to me, black

12:52

women reaching out to me outside

12:54

of the ballet world that wanted to be a support

12:56

system. And that's why I understand

12:58

the importance of being a mentor for the next

13:00

generation. After

13:03

the break, Copeland and I discussed

13:06

the scrutiny that black female

13:08

bodies and how

13:11

it's often amplified in

13:13

the world of ballet. You're

13:24

listening to getting even I'm

13:27

Anita Hill. I'm speaking with Misty

13:29

Copeland, the first black female

13:31

principal dancer at the American

13:34

Ballet Theater we talk

13:36

about her book Black Ballerinas

13:38

and her mission to celebrate dancers

13:40

of color who have paved the way. We

13:43

also get into how black bodies

13:46

fit or don't fit the

13:48

traditional ballet esthetic,

13:51

and why Copeland's iconic roles

13:53

are even more meaningful as a result.

13:57

Were you ever told that you didn't have the

13:59

right body for ballet?

14:03

Yes? I still am to this day. Yes.

14:06

What's so interesting is that from

14:08

the time I started dance, why I was

14:10

called a prodigy was that I was

14:13

being told I had the perfect

14:15

ballet body. I was given full

14:17

scholarships, you know. I was told, like, you have

14:19

the right body proportions. And then all of

14:21

a sudden, I become a professional and

14:24

it's like something switched and

14:26

I no longer had the right body.

14:28

And a lot of that was like deciphering

14:31

what that language means. And

14:33

the more I was exposed to other dancers

14:35

of color, other black women in the ballet

14:37

world, the more you realize, oh, that's just

14:40

code for you don't have the right skin color, and

14:42

you will not fit into a cord of ballet.

14:44

You will bring imbalance to this

14:48

white sea of dancers.

14:51

It was a lot to take in and like in

14:53

a ballet company. There's no mentorship

14:56

program, there's no guidance. You

14:58

know. I moved to New York City straight out of high

15:00

school at seventeen on my own, and you're

15:02

just kind of thrown into the sea,

15:05

you know, you sink or swim. And it was

15:07

important that I had incredible

15:10

women that came into my life that kind

15:12

of put that life vest on me and

15:14

helped me to like figure it out.

15:18

So do you think that a part of it,

15:20

too, is not just

15:23

not fitting into the particular

15:25

static but also this historic

15:28

stereotype that we have of

15:30

black women dancers.

15:33

I think about Josephine Baker,

15:35

who was, you know, able

15:38

to do what she was doing because she was

15:40

considered to be exotic and

15:43

that wasn't really what's

15:45

happening in ballet

15:48

was. I mean, the exotic was not

15:50

what they were looking for. No. No,

15:52

it's difficult to change the way people

15:54

think ballet should be. And then

15:57

it's just it keeps getting repeated,

15:59

like this is what a ballerina should

16:01

look like. She should be fair skinned and soft

16:04

and feminine, and black women

16:06

are not often depicted that way or given

16:08

an opportunity to be seen that way,

16:11

which is why it's so important, you know, for me to

16:13

take on roles like Juliette

16:15

and Romeo and Juliet or the white Swan and

16:17

Swan Lake. These are all roles that have been

16:19

kept from Black women for

16:23

generations and generations because

16:25

they're seen as the opposite of what black

16:28

women are seen as. I think what

16:30

happened with me is that I got to a point

16:32

where a lot of black dancers get to where,

16:34

first of all, the opportunities stop

16:37

and you're not surrounded

16:39

by people who have been through

16:42

what you've been through. There's no real documentation

16:44

of our history. It's not like we can open

16:46

up a history book. Oh, this person

16:49

went through this, this person went through this, and you kind of pick up

16:51

from where they left off, learned from their experiences.

16:53

We don't have that, and I feel

16:55

like that's something that I've taken on as a responsibility.

16:59

You know, I feel like I'm in this position

17:01

to create our own narrative

17:04

and write our history. And you

17:06

know, that was really the reasoning for me writing

17:08

Black Collars. My journey to our legacy

17:10

was to be able to share

17:14

this twenty year journey that I've had

17:16

being a professional with American Ballet theater.

17:19

And you know, this wasn't like I decided to write

17:21

this book and then I went on Google six months prior

17:23

and I started learning. This has been twenty

17:26

years of learning on the job, learning

17:29

from other black dancers that I'd meet and connect

17:31

with, and what dancers came before

17:33

me. You know, it allows you to see

17:36

where I can go because of what

17:39

they've done and the doors that have been opened

17:41

for me. And there are just so many

17:43

incredible dancers that people don't

17:45

know their names or their contributions to this

17:47

art form. What are the names of some of those women.

17:50

I'm like, looking at my book right now, there's so

17:52

many tie him and as Janet

17:55

Collins, Deborrah Austin, Raven

17:57

Wilkinson, Marion Sugette.

17:59

You know, they're the dancers today that

18:01

I felt it was important to include in the list

18:04

because it's not just about our past.

18:06

It's about the dancers that are doing it now, that are

18:08

up in coming, that are going to continue on

18:11

our legacies. Erica Loell,

18:13

Nikisha Fogo, Ebony

18:16

Williams. There's so many,

18:18

and in my book, I have twenty seven

18:20

that I featured, and that's not at all

18:22

a comprehensive list. But

18:25

you know, you're only given a certain number

18:27

of pages on books, and so

18:30

I know you know, but there's

18:33

there's an incredible list of

18:36

black and brown dancers to learn about there.

18:38

Of course, when you give us that description of your

18:40

book and your work and your thinking, I'm

18:43

thinking about black girls. Did

18:45

you write this book for them? Yes?

18:48

You know, of course, everything that I

18:50

do, I want it to be

18:53

for everyone, even if it's if it's

18:56

different communities learning about

18:58

what it is to be a black woman, what it is

19:00

to be a black dancer in this world. It's for everyone.

19:03

But of course you know from my first

19:05

book, my memoir, the through line throughout

19:08

the entire book was this is for the little brown girls,

19:11

you know, And so of course those

19:13

are the people that are often

19:16

excluded when it comes to opportunities,

19:19

when it comes to being nurtured and told

19:21

they're beautiful and told they're important.

19:24

So they're definitely at the top of

19:26

mind whenever I'm

19:28

writing or thinking about the

19:30

next generation. In a way,

19:32

you are writing the history of ballet

19:35

that hasn't been told. And

19:37

I wonder if in that writing

19:40

you have come up

19:42

with your own idea about why

19:45

there is this resistance to the

19:49

presence of the black body.

19:53

What's behind that in

19:55

your opinion, Well, I think for starters,

19:58

you know, this is a European

20:00

art form, and that's kind of the base

20:02

of it. So many of the stories and the ballets

20:05

that we tell are not a reflection of

20:07

our community as black people, and of so

20:09

many communities, especially in America.

20:12

There are the stories of European white

20:14

men from the eighteen hundreds,

20:17

four hundred years later. It's not really something

20:20

that you can really grasp because it's

20:22

been exposed to so many different cultures

20:25

over the course of the time. So,

20:27

yes, those are the origins, but that's

20:30

no longer the limitations of who

20:32

sees it, who's influenced

20:35

by it, who's inspired by it.

20:37

It's now a part of the fabric

20:40

of America when you talk

20:42

about how female

20:44

dancers are portrayed through

20:47

the eyes of white

20:49

men, white European man, and that's

20:51

where the sexism comes in, isn't it. Yeah.

20:54

I was reading an article like a week

20:56

ago, and I think it was in the New York Times

20:59

about this about, you know the fact

21:01

that white men are still

21:04

completely running the classical ballet world.

21:07

You know, there has been some movement but it's

21:09

something that needs to be talked about and addressed,

21:11

and I think you'll see some real shifts once you get

21:14

more diversity at the top. You know, it's not just

21:16

about the diversity see on stage, but it's behind

21:18

the scenes. It's the board of directors, it's the artistic

21:20

staff, it's the teachers at

21:22

the low levels that are teaching

21:24

children. If they don't see themselves reflected

21:27

and they don't have people who understand them,

21:29

then that's when you lose

21:31

that connection and people

21:33

who want to be a part of it. So it's

21:36

tackling these issues on

21:38

every level. When you

21:40

join the American Ballot Theater, did

21:42

you feel like you had to represent the

21:45

Wraith at ABT? Yes,

21:52

But I never saw that as

21:54

a negative thing. I never saw that as

21:57

something put on me or pressure.

22:00

It's been something that I've

22:02

actively done. From the moment

22:04

that I joined ABT. My

22:07

immediate visceral react action was,

22:10

oh, my gosh, well I ever see another black

22:12

woman alongside me in this company, and

22:14

so my goal was getting more

22:17

brown girls in the company

22:19

with me and telling our stories.

22:22

While I was in a space where I could be seen and

22:24

heard, you could have made a different

22:26

choice, I think, and I understand

22:29

the choice that you made to go to ABT, but

22:32

you could have chosen to go to Dance

22:34

Theater of Harlaw. I understand

22:37

they were courting you to come to Dance

22:39

Theater of Harlem. Why did

22:41

you decide to go to

22:43

American Ballet Theater. Yeah,

22:46

it's a great question. I think from

22:48

from the beginning, my teacher,

22:51

Cynthia Bradley, from the moment that I

22:53

started dancing, she was very cognizant

22:55

of the obstacles that might

22:58

lie ahead being a black girl in the

23:00

ballet world. And of all

23:02

the companies in America and

23:04

Europe, ABT was the most diverse culturally

23:07

in terms of dancers were

23:09

from and with their training. Most

23:13

companies are connected to a school. You have to

23:15

train through their school in their technique to get

23:17

into the company. That's why all the dancers

23:19

look similar. But at ABT, they allowed

23:21

dancers from all over the world to come

23:23

to their company, and they liked that they looked different,

23:26

and so she felt like that's a place where

23:29

she can thrive. So that was

23:31

the reason that ABT was what I

23:33

was working towards. But Dance of

23:35

Harlem was always around and Arthur

23:37

Mitchell was there supporting me, and I

23:39

was pretty new to the company when Arthur called

23:42

me and asked me to come take company

23:44

class and speak to him, and he knew I was

23:46

having a difficult time. He understood what it

23:49

was to be the only I mean, he was the only

23:51

black person in a company

23:53

at New York City Ballet and became the first black

23:55

principal dancer there. He said

23:57

to me, like, you know, you could come here and

23:59

you could be surrounded by people who look like you, who

24:02

will support you. These are unspoken

24:04

things. You don't have to have these microaggressions

24:06

and explain yourself. And he offered me

24:08

a solos contract. And my

24:11

thinking was, first of all,

24:14

what Arthur did at New York City Ballet

24:16

change the landscape for opportunities

24:18

for black dancers everywhere, and then

24:20

creating dance set of Harlem took that to a

24:22

whole new level. And I felt like

24:25

I had a purpose being

24:27

in that space an American ballet theater to

24:30

make change that

24:32

we still haven't made, which

24:34

is to exist in these white spaces

24:36

and succeed and change

24:38

the narrative. And I didn't feel that I

24:41

could do that completely at dance set

24:43

of Harlem. You know, I felt like

24:45

I would be a part of something incredible in

24:47

historic and I'd be surrounded by people who look

24:49

like me and I'd feel good inside.

24:52

But I felt like I meant to

24:54

be at ABT and make change there. And

24:56

did you speak out there to make change?

24:58

Yeah? I mean it's been my whole career, and that's

25:01

what I've been doing it for twenty years. You know.

25:03

It's it's been learning and navigating

25:05

and doing it in ways that are acceptable.

25:08

You know, it's like any black person navigating

25:10

their way through a white construct

25:13

and learning how to have those conversations.

25:15

That's a very intimidating thing to be a

25:17

young black girl having conversations

25:19

with your older, white male artistic

25:22

director and being able to articulate yourself

25:24

in express without being

25:26

too aggressive or too overemotional

25:29

or angry. You know, all of these things attributed

25:31

to being a woman and to being black. And it's

25:34

been a long process, and I feel like I'm definitely

25:37

in a space now where I'm

25:39

in a position of power where I can

25:42

speak to the truths of so many dancers

25:44

that feel they can't because they

25:46

may be reprimanded for it. I

25:48

also think that we're in a different time, you know, post

25:51

George Floyd, where it's

25:53

not just the world that's you know, that's

25:55

looking at itself and wanting to take change, but

25:58

the ballet world is absolutely

26:00

doing it. And it's a good feeling to feel

26:02

like I'm not the only person on

26:04

this platform speaking, but that other

26:07

dancers of color feel empowered

26:10

to do it now. You mentioned

26:12

George Floyd and twenty

26:15

was a racial reckoning

26:17

for the country. Have you

26:19

seen meaningful change in

26:22

the last couple of years in the ballet

26:24

world, change that can translate

26:26

to what's going on outside

26:29

in the world too. Yes, this

26:31

is you know, this is the first time that

26:35

I feel that we're

26:37

being exposed. Ballet

26:39

culture is such a niche thing and

26:42

we kind of exist in our own world

26:44

and so the people inside

26:46

of it get away with a lot of things. And

26:50

I feel like we've almost been exposed,

26:52

you know, the doors have been opened and people are

26:54

seeing what we went through, you

26:57

know, with this rise of Black Lives Matter,

26:59

like the ballet world is like a couple hundred years behind

27:02

that. So it's been a

27:04

moment. But also with the pandemic,

27:07

it really I think made the ballet

27:09

world in particular, step back and take a

27:11

look at itself. So

27:13

I'm hopeful, but you know, we

27:15

have to just keep the conversation going

27:18

and hold people accountable. It shouldn't just be

27:20

our responsibility as black and brown people.

27:22

Everyone should be contributing to

27:25

the changes in evolution. A

27:27

couple of years ago, a dancer,

27:29

Chloe Lopez Gomes won

27:32

her complaint against the German Ballet

27:34

Company for race discrimination. Very

27:37

recently last year, Christine

27:39

fint Roy left Dance Theater

27:42

of Harlem for the Boston Ballet

27:44

and she said, you know, out loud, something

27:46

that probably dancers wouldn't have said years

27:48

ago. But she says she dances for

27:51

the other people to change

27:53

people's lives. And so

27:56

I guess I ask you can breakthroughs

27:58

like yours, like miss Lopez

28:01

Gomes, like Miss fint Roys, Can

28:03

they change people's lives? Absolutely?

28:06

Absolutely. I mean I didn't even

28:08

have exposure to that, and my life

28:10

was changed through this art form. And I've

28:12

seen it. I've seen it firsthand. You

28:14

know, simply by existing,

28:17

by being a body on that

28:20

stage that people can

28:22

connect to and relate to and see possibilities.

28:25

And it may not be connected to

28:27

ballet, but they can say I

28:30

can exist in a space where there aren't very

28:32

many, but it's a possibility

28:34

for me. I definitely

28:36

think that all of these stories

28:38

being accessible will

28:41

change lives, are changing lives,

28:43

and that's why it's so important for

28:45

me to continue on these legacies

28:47

and share these stories. It's definitely

28:50

making an impact. Well,

28:56

I will just close by saying this. When

28:59

I was in law school, I

29:02

took my first ballet class. It

29:04

literally change the way that I sell

29:06

myself and I sell my body.

29:09

And you also have to keep in mind that I

29:11

am a farm girl from Oklahoma,

29:14

rural Oklahoma, really rural Oklahoma,

29:17

and I have loved

29:20

ballet and I

29:23

think you're absolutely right that ballet

29:26

can change people's

29:28

perspective of life and

29:32

of their own bodies and where

29:34

they belong. And and

29:38

in large part that is because

29:40

of the work that you're doing that people understand

29:43

that. So thank you so

29:45

much, Thanks for all that you are doing,

29:47

and keep up the great

29:50

work. Thank you so much for having

29:52

me this and honor thank you. Mister

30:00

Copeland's story reminds us that opportunity

30:03

and support can change a person's

30:05

life and how that in

30:07

turn can change our world.

30:11

Along with her immense talent, determination

30:14

and hard work, Copeland's

30:16

legacy will be her commitment

30:19

to creating a career on her own

30:22

terms. She is

30:24

inspiring and uplifting the next

30:26

generation. We need

30:28

to give them the support and resources

30:31

they need to succeed, resources

30:34

that are too often lacking for black

30:36

and brown girls. Copeland

30:39

is paying it back and paying

30:41

it forward, lifting up the names

30:43

of the dancers on whose shoulders

30:45

she stands, and bringing

30:47

others along with her as she

30:50

diversifies ballet. In

30:55

the next episode, I speak with author,

30:58

educator, and activist Monique Morris about

31:00

her work to transform the

31:02

lives of black and brown girls

31:04

and how they're represented in the

31:07

world, to

31:09

unpack how we normalized

31:11

this expectation that black

31:13

girls will be loud, sassy, combative,

31:16

and sexualized without talking about remedy.

31:21

Getting Even is a production of Pushkin

31:24

Industries and is written and hosted by

31:26

me Anita Hill. It is

31:28

produced by Mola Board and Brittany

31:30

Brown. Our editor is Sarah

31:33

Kramer, our engineer is Amanda

31:35

kay Wang, and our showrunner

31:37

is Sasha Matthias. Luis

31:40

Gara composed original music

31:42

for the show. Our executive

31:45

producers are Mia Lobel

31:47

and le tal malaud Our

31:50

Director of Development is Justine

31:52

Lang. At Pushkin

31:55

thanks to Heather Fane,

31:57

Carly Migliori, Jason Gambrel,

32:00

Julia Barton, John Schnarz,

32:03

and Jacob Weisberg. You

32:05

can find me on Twitter at

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32:12

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