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0:46

Yes, it is daunting, and I

0:48

think it should be. If you're not

0:50

daunted, you know something is very

0:52

wrong with you and you're probably not right for this job. That's

0:56

Sherylyn Eiffel. I'm the President

0:58

and Director Counsel of the NAACP Legal

1:00

Defense Fund until midnight tonight.

1:03

Then I will be stepping

1:06

down. I caught up with Eiffel on

1:08

the last day of her nearly

1:11

decade long tenure leading the

1:13

NAACP Legal Defense Fund.

1:16

The LDF has handled many of the

1:18

biggest civil rights cases in the country,

1:21

such as Brown versus

1:23

the Board of Education. We also

1:26

were the lawyers who represented Martin Luther

1:28

King in Birmingham, and we represented

1:30

the Selma Marchers, and we represented the Freedom

1:33

Writers, and you know, we represented

1:35

Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Improvement Association,

1:38

and we represented Muhammad Ali and getting

1:40

his boxing license back. So

1:44

you know, all the things you think of the lawyers

1:47

by and large were LDF. When

1:49

if All started out at LDF, she

1:52

was daunted by the work ahead

1:54

of her. I joined LDF at

1:56

nineteen eighty eight, and you must remember, Anita,

1:59

that I was a young lawyer at LDF. So

2:01

when you start in that position,

2:04

you are gazing up at the founders

2:06

and the leaders of the organization with all

2:09

in reverence. And I've never lost that. Leading

2:12

today's American civil rights movement

2:14

is a massive job. Eiffel

2:17

personally reviews every brief

2:20

that has filed to the federal and Supreme courts.

2:23

She also writes her own op eds

2:26

and manages everything from

2:28

fundraising to operations, and

2:31

like each of Eiffel's predecessors,

2:34

she has left her mark. I

2:36

felt very strongly that in order to be

2:39

relevant in civil rights work, you

2:41

can't just do your cases, you know, your

2:43

litigation. You have to be

2:45

able to respond to what is moving

2:47

people's heart and soul in the moment. One

2:50

of Eiffel's legacies at the Legal Defense

2:52

Fund is her creation of a rapid

2:54

response team. Through it,

2:57

she has helped shape the larger

2:59

narrative about race in this

3:01

country. And I have been

3:03

quite determined to do that I'm

3:07

Anita Hill. This is

3:10

Getting Even, my podcast

3:12

about equality and what it takes to get

3:14

there. On Getting Even,

3:17

I speak with people who are improving

3:19

our imperfect world, people

3:22

who took risks and broke

3:24

the rules. In this

3:26

episode, CHERYLN. Eifel

3:28

reflects on her work at the NAACP

3:31

Legal Defense Fund and how

3:33

it fits into our world today.

3:38

What are some of the cases and the

3:40

initiatives that are at the front of your mind

3:43

on your last day and with LDF,

3:47

Well, I think this so called anti critical

3:49

race theory movement, which is really an anti

3:51

truth movement. This whole effort

3:54

to memory hold the truth about

3:57

the history of racism, to remove

3:59

this from our educational system,

4:02

to try and change

4:04

our perception of history, to try

4:07

to bury history, is something

4:09

that we could not have anticipated three years

4:11

ago, five years ago. But here it is, and it's real

4:13

and it's dangerous. We're already

4:16

in a number of states participating

4:18

with local grassroots groups testifying

4:20

ourselves in opposition to some of

4:22

these bills. There will be litigation in

4:25

some of these places. LDF has

4:27

worked forever on issues of police violence

4:29

against on armed African Americans, and obviously

4:31

voting rights are key, But

4:33

you know, LDF has a whole docket of cases

4:35

around natural hair discrimination, which

4:37

people that somehow can't believe, but it's true.

4:40

You know, a lot of our hair discrimination

4:42

cases, for example, really began with young people and

4:45

litigating those cases of young people who were suspended

4:47

or who were told they couldn't walk in graduation because

4:50

they had lots. You know, we released

4:52

a report written by one of our terrific

4:54

young attorneys a few years ago that

4:57

just focused on the way

4:59

in which discipline is meted out

5:01

to black girls in

5:04

public schools in Baltimore City, and

5:07

it was very important to us to explore this

5:10

issue of how black girls

5:12

bodies are used

5:14

to suggest that they violate

5:17

dress codes, the way in which black

5:19

girls are kind of not allowed

5:21

to be girls, the way in which the

5:24

license that's taken to search black girls

5:26

again is a denial of their

5:29

dignity and their privacy, the

5:31

presumptions that are made about black

5:33

girls and their sophistication. A

5:35

lot of our approach to our work is getting

5:38

in there and understanding the way in which

5:41

certain kinds of infractions particularly

5:43

are experienced. Is just

5:46

really important to put together

5:49

a more complex picture

5:52

of what the denial of civil rights looks

5:54

like for different members of our community.

5:57

That's really exciting work that

5:59

I think maybe people don't

6:02

necessarily even know is going

6:04

on. I agree, you're

6:06

doing so much. Maybe you can't know every

6:09

thing. You know, it's so true. I mean, if

6:11

you're familiar with the Los Angeles bus

6:13

system, that was an LDF case

6:16

that we sue to make sure that

6:18

the bus routes in Los Angeles would

6:20

reach black and brown communities

6:22

in the city. And so I'm sure people

6:24

get on the buses every day and they don't think, oh, this is the

6:27

result of a civil rights suit by the

6:29

NAACP Legal Defense Fund. But it

6:31

is the work that we've done in the employment

6:33

discrimination area. You know. I

6:35

talk about a case we won in nineteen seventy one

6:37

called Phillips versus Martin Marietta, an

6:40

LDF case brought on behalf of a white woman

6:42

who was challenging the rule

6:44

at Martin Marietta that they did

6:46

not hire women who had preschool aged

6:49

children. That was just the rule

6:51

of the firm, you know. LDF we argued

6:53

that case in the Supreme Court in one So you know, I

6:55

say all the time to women in corporate America. You know,

6:57

if you've got your job and you have young children,

7:00

that was LDF. You have us to think, right,

7:03

yeah, exactly, exactly. There

7:05

was no blueprint fifty years

7:07

ago, certainly not when d was

7:09

established. I think civil rights

7:12

work today is very different

7:14

in terms of the amount of

7:17

partners that you have that are collaborating

7:19

with you. All of the civil rights

7:21

community can't be represented

7:24

in one organization, that's right.

7:27

Tell me about your collaboration

7:29

if you will, with the Leadership Conference of Civil

7:31

Rights. Oh yeah, it's an ecosystem

7:34

that has to be strong, and

7:36

the Leadership Conference is essential to the

7:38

ecosystem because it brings us all together

7:41

and it's really important. I say this all the time.

7:44

LDF is largely a litigating

7:46

organization and a policy organization, but we also

7:48

have organizers on our staff. But you know, we're

7:51

not a membership organization. You know, people

7:53

need people to turn out at a march. That's

7:55

going to be the National Action networker people who

7:57

have members or affiliates. That's

7:59

not us. But every part of the ecosystem

8:01

has a role to play. One of the things we were so

8:03

clear about when Trump was elected, we actually had

8:05

meetings about it was that we were

8:07

all going to stand shoulder to shoulder because we

8:10

genuinely believed. I think

8:12

maybe we underestimated the brutality

8:14

of Trump's tactics, but we believe that we're going to try

8:16

to drive wedges between the black and Latino

8:18

community around issues like immigration or

8:20

the black and LGBTQ community. And

8:22

so one of the things we were very explicitly

8:25

clear about was that there would be no daylight

8:27

between us on any of the issues

8:30

that we worked on, and that

8:32

proved to be an incredible strength, and we all

8:34

understood we had to show up for one

8:36

another quickly. When Tree of Life

8:39

happened, as soon as I heard it, my text

8:41

went out to Jonathan Greenblat

8:43

the relationship between John Yang and I, the

8:45

head of Asian Americans Advancing Justice, and

8:48

our very explicit modeling

8:50

of ally ship between the black and Asian

8:53

American community over the last year

8:55

and a half as hate crimes

8:57

have risen exponentially against

8:59

the Asian American community. All of that is

9:02

intentional because we understand

9:05

that our work and our survival is

9:07

dependent on our to stand

9:10

strong and to stand shoulder

9:12

to shoulder in the work. I know you mentioned

9:14

a number of women who

9:17

are now heading these organizations, which historically

9:20

wasn't the case. Do you think that

9:22

that sort of intersectional influence

9:25

that is coming in with the diverse

9:28

leadership will change

9:30

the work of LDF in the future

9:32

or will inform the work of LDF

9:35

in the future. You know, I

9:37

think every Director Council brings their

9:39

secret sauce to the table, whatever

9:42

that might be, that is very much

9:44

a product of their experience, and

9:47

I borrowed from every Director

9:49

council. Nineteen eighty eight, I was hired

9:51

by Julius Chambers, one of the most extraordinary,

9:54

consequential and courageous civil rights lawyers

9:56

as country has ever known, and who most people

9:58

don't know. He litigated the Swan

10:00

versus Mechleberg case, Landmark school

10:02

disegregation case in one eighteen

10:05

month period. He had his car, his office,

10:08

and his house fire, and Julius

10:10

always just kept it moving. Elaine Jones

10:12

really built our profile in DC right

10:15

and on Capitol Hill. My communication

10:18

efforts and understanding the importance of being

10:20

a voice and a face in shaping the narrative was very

10:23

much taken from Thirgood. He had a way about

10:25

him that made people want to listen to him that was accessible.

10:27

They could understand the average person could understand

10:30

what he was talking about when he was talking about

10:32

the cases that he was litigating. That was important

10:35

to me to be able to convey that. Jack

10:37

Greenberg was incredibly entrepreneurial

10:40

and expanded the organization in all kinds

10:42

of ways. He would say, let's file five hundred

10:45

cases that would challenge, you know, discrimination

10:48

in various textile plants

10:50

across the South. I mean, he was just extremely

10:53

entrepreneurial and moved LDF in a lot of different

10:55

directions that still exist today. So

10:57

everybody has their secret sauce they bring to

10:59

the table. I came

11:01

to this space from

11:04

spending many years having

11:07

left New York and moving to Baltimore and

11:09

having a real strong sense of what

11:12

I thought was important about the experience

11:14

of black people in what I kind of call second tier

11:17

cities, you know, not New York or San Francisco

11:19

or Chicago, but Baltimore, Cleveland,

11:22

Detroit. I got really interested in that,

11:24

and a lot of the work on our docket reflects that. I'm

11:27

a big believer in rapid response, and

11:29

so I built a rapid response capacity

11:31

in the organization because I felt very

11:33

strongly that in order to be

11:36

relevant in civil rights work, you

11:38

know, you can't just do your cases, you

11:40

know, your litigation, you have

11:42

to be able to respond to what is moving

11:45

people's heart and soul in the moment. If

11:47

Mike Brown is lying on that street as he was that Saturday,

11:49

when I saw on Twitter this kind

11:51

of growing concern about this

11:53

young man who had been shot by an officer and that his body

11:56

was still in the street, I started tracking

11:58

that and by Sunday night I had assembled

12:00

my team on the phone to say, something's happening,

12:03

you know, and we need to understand what

12:05

it is. And the first thing we did was send one

12:07

of our organizers down because we understood

12:09

this wasn't a matter of litigation

12:11

per se. There was something else that

12:13

was happening around this issue of police violence.

12:16

So that very much comes out of my own

12:19

experience and thinking about how to

12:21

approach these issues and how the

12:23

community expects people who

12:26

hold themselves in the position of being civil rights leaders

12:28

to be responsive to the things that they care about.

12:32

After the break, Eiffel and I

12:34

talk about what lies ahead, where

12:37

progress stalls and

12:39

where we can place our hope.

12:51

You're listening to getting even I'm

12:54

Anita Hill. I'm speaking with

12:56

Sherylyn Eiffel, President and

12:58

Director Counsel of the NAACP

13:01

Legal Defense Fund. Eifel

13:03

and I spoke on her last day on

13:05

the job. We look

13:08

toward the future civil rights and

13:10

what type of leadership we need. I

13:12

want to talk about leadership in Washington,

13:15

DC and it specifically. I want to

13:18

start with the courts. We

13:20

now have a

13:23

nominee, Judge Jackson

13:26

for the Supreme Court. Tell me how

13:28

you think that will play out in the

13:30

next few weeks. Well, I

13:32

think she'll be confirmed. I don't have any

13:34

doubt about that. But I do

13:36

think that there will be some

13:39

bad behavior by members of the Senate

13:41

Judiciary Committee. And it doesn't

13:43

matter who the person is. Cason point is Katangi

13:45

Brown Jackson, who by all measures

13:48

has a very moderate record. This is

13:50

not a civil rights lawyer, as a moderate

13:52

record, has more judicial experience

13:55

heading into the Supreme Court than Chief Justice

13:57

Roberts did heading into the Supreme

14:00

Court. And yet you know already

14:03

you heard Senator Lindsay Graham saying

14:05

her nomination is part of

14:07

a leftist agenda, you know, so

14:10

you know that it's going to there's going to be some

14:12

bad behavior. It won't change the

14:14

outcome. But I don't

14:16

take it lightly because people

14:18

have to want to serve, and it's not pleasant

14:21

for people to go through that kind of gauntlet to serve.

14:23

And it's a way of showing a

14:26

certain license that

14:28

they believe they have and that they believe they should

14:30

take, particularly with women of color. And

14:32

my own belief is that that trickles down into

14:36

the workplace of the average woman, that

14:38

people watch that and think they can

14:40

call any woman in a professional setting

14:43

out of her name, or call them an Affirmative

14:45

action nominee, or deem them unqualified

14:48

by virtue of their race, and so on and so forth. So

14:50

so I think it's harmful and toxic

14:53

and dangerous, but unfortunately, I think we will see some

14:55

of that. Can she make a difference on

14:57

this chord? I mean, I think to the

14:59

average person, first of all, the trust

15:02

in the Supreme Court has declined

15:05

over the years, and now I think it's about forty

15:07

percent favorability rating of

15:09

the Supreme Court itself. You

15:12

know, we've got a majority

15:15

of the justices squarely conservative.

15:18

And how are we to see

15:21

the potential for her terms

15:25

on the Supreme Court, every

15:27

justice can make a difference that they choose to

15:30

do so. So, first of all,

15:32

it's a choice. You have to decide

15:34

that you want to make a difference, and

15:37

you're absolutely right. I can do math

15:40

as well as the next guy. It is a

15:42

six three court at this point. And

15:45

so the idea is

15:47

that the Conservatives have a strong

15:49

majority of a stronghold, and they have

15:51

shown themselves, particularly over the last year or

15:53

so, to be quite willing

15:56

to flex their muscles and to be even

15:58

reckless in my view, with

16:01

the flexing of those muscles. But it can change

16:04

if you think about justice. So to Mayor, and particularly

16:06

over the last two years, the kinds of dissents that she's

16:08

been writing, and as I said in a recent

16:10

op ed that I wrote in the New York Times, they sting.

16:13

You can tell that they sting, and they are

16:15

meant to sting because you can't

16:17

make it easy for them to dismantle

16:20

the infrastructure of civil rights. You can't make

16:22

it easy for them. And then the second piece

16:24

that she's doing is that she's talking to the

16:26

public. She's showing us

16:29

that what we think is happening is in

16:31

fact happening. You know, You're

16:33

absolutely right. And one of the things that I know

16:36

for sure and now is that the public is listening

16:38

to what is happening on the Supreme Court

16:41

in a different way than they have been

16:43

in past. Yes, they are paying attention.

16:45

I think that they will see that the

16:48

effort that the conservatives are taking

16:50

is really systematic and it

16:52

is increasingly emboldened to

16:55

actually rewrite the law. At

16:57

the same time claim that they're not an activist

16:59

chord. And so

17:02

I do believe that these this sense

17:04

will be powerful. Yes, And they're

17:06

not going to be just speaking to each other now that

17:09

they're going to be talking to the public,

17:11

to the other courts and to the

17:13

legislative bodies. And so

17:16

these are really important times for

17:18

us to think about what

17:20

is in fact the judicial

17:23

imagination that we had for

17:26

equalities. There was I think

17:28

a roar of approval when at some point, you

17:30

know, Justice Sotomayoran in one case

17:32

cited Tanahasi Coats and you'd be like,

17:34

who you cite? Who you suggest

17:37

is worth listening to? Right,

17:39

It's a kind of scholarship that the Court should engage.

17:42

There are all kinds of ways as a Supreme

17:44

Court justice that you can be influential if

17:46

you choose to do so. So it

17:50

is in the hands of Judge Jackson

17:53

to decide how she will be on

17:55

the court. She will have an

17:57

opportunity. Of course, she's going to do what most

17:59

of us would do, I'm sure, which is

18:02

make friends and alliances where she can. That's

18:04

an important part of the job. I have

18:06

no doubt she will do that, and then I suspect she'll be quite

18:08

scared full at it. But there are all kinds

18:11

of ways to be influential, and I think that giving

18:13

her a little bit of time, she will find

18:15

her way. Do you think it's helpful that she's a former

18:17

public defender? Absolutely?

18:20

I mean I have railed for some time

18:22

against what I believe has been

18:24

the capture of the federal courts

18:27

in general and the Supreme Court more specifically

18:29

by prosecutors. That was

18:32

the pathway to becoming a

18:34

federal judge, and increasingly

18:36

the pathway to serving on the Supreme Court as

18:38

well. People had worked in the Justice Department,

18:41

They've been US attorneys and so forth,

18:43

and I think it shows in

18:45

the jurisprudence that comes from the federal courts

18:48

that the mindset is more

18:51

prosecutor oriented. And it's fascinating

18:53

because most of the things that we

18:56

take pride in when we go to conferences

18:58

in other countries about our legal

19:00

system, our constitutional system, our criminal

19:02

justice system, are all the things

19:05

that are really on the defense side.

19:07

We're proud of in until proven guilty

19:10

and Miranda warnings and yeah,

19:12

and due process and the ability to confront your accuser

19:15

and the right to remain silent

19:17

and for that not to be incriminating.

19:20

And just think about all of the things that we talk

19:22

about as making a

19:24

criminal legal system sound in

19:27

a democracy, and they're not about

19:29

how many people we put away in for how many years and how

19:31

many people we have on death row. Those are not

19:33

the things that American lawyers

19:35

brag about around the world,

19:38

right, So it's fascinating that

19:40

the role of public defenders and criminal

19:42

defense attorneys in general, along with civil rights

19:44

lawyers who are doing some of the noblest

19:47

work in this profession, has largely

19:49

been downgraded among

19:51

the qualifications for those

19:53

who serve on the Supreme Court

19:56

and on the federal courts in general. And I think

19:58

we've been really pushing to reverse that, and I credit

20:01

President Biden with having done an

20:03

exemplary job of beginning

20:06

to turn that around in his federal

20:09

nominations as well as with the domination of Judge

20:11

Jackson. You had mentioned Mike Brown

20:14

in the response of LDF to

20:17

the situation involving his

20:19

death. We have just come

20:21

off a couple of years of the

20:24

pandemic where we have focused

20:27

on inequities. We have a

20:29

Black Lives Matter movement, and the

20:32

movement has gotten a lot of traction

20:34

lately, and the

20:37

public seems to be paying attention to

20:39

these issues. Nevertheless,

20:41

it does not seem that leadership

20:44

in Washington has really taken

20:47

up the mantle and moved

20:49

to do

20:51

more policy work to

20:54

support these ideas and these

20:57

early cries for justice. How

21:00

can we make

21:02

the connection, How can these

21:04

movements become the influencers

21:07

of policy in this country.

21:12

Well, I think we have a political problem.

21:15

We have a broken political system that has

21:17

to be overhauled in a variety

21:19

of ways. I don't put that at the feet

21:21

of the civil rights community, because I

21:23

think one of the things that's been revealed

21:25

by the Trump presidency and the

21:29

excesses of his presidency

21:31

and of Congress during those

21:33

years, are the ways in which the

21:35

system has to be fixed. I

21:38

think the conversation we've had for the last year about

21:40

the filibuster rule is enormously important.

21:43

That we have a right to weigh in on

21:45

procedures and practices

21:48

that are archaic that stand in the way

21:50

of moving our democracy forward, and

21:52

that has to be addressed. So

21:54

we have a problem. We have a problem in

21:57

which some of the rules need to be changed,

21:59

but we also have a problem in which political

22:01

leaders are valuing power

22:05

over democracy, and

22:07

that is the beginning authoritarianism,

22:10

and it's very, very serious. People

22:13

want to stay in their jobs. I

22:15

mean, if you think about jerrymandering, another

22:17

thing that is anti democratic at the levels

22:19

that we're seeing it, and yet people are willing

22:22

to do it so that their party can stay

22:24

in power forever. I mean,

22:26

this is every child

22:28

knows that sometimes

22:30

I go first and sometimes you go first. When

22:32

we play a game, right, it's your

22:35

turn and then it's my turn. We're

22:37

now facing a moment where even that seminal

22:40

lesson that every child knows has

22:43

been lost. This is part of why Trump

22:45

can't say he lost the election, because

22:47

it's never anybody else's turn. It's only his

22:50

turn. And that's what's happening

22:52

to our politics. And I keep saying

22:54

that the movements really have done their job.

22:57

Yes, the movements have done their job. Oh

23:00

listen, let me let me say this. Let me just get this

23:02

out. We did the dog on

23:04

saying okay, we did it. The

23:06

work that we've done, the movements, the ordinary

23:09

people who have been fighting, the millions of people

23:11

who came out in fifty States after seeing the

23:13

video of George Floyd being killed in the middle

23:15

of a global pandemic, fifty

23:18

states largest civil rights marches

23:20

we have ever seen in this country and around

23:22

the world in solidarity. The

23:25

people have been on point, and

23:27

the civil rights ecosystem has been on point.

23:30

The politics is broken and is working

23:32

counter to what the people are

23:35

showing us they want. And

23:37

it is also true that there are people who are

23:39

opposed to us. They've been coming out there at the school

23:41

board meetings, right There's fewer in

23:43

number, but they are

23:46

willing to be cruel, rude,

23:49

brutal, sometimes violent. And you

23:51

saw what happened on January sixth, just a

23:53

few thousand people, but look

23:55

at what they did, and we look at what they were prepared

23:58

to do. And we're also in

24:00

this situation right now where we have a Supreme Court

24:02

that, as we already discussed, is emboldened

24:05

and kind of reckless in this moment.

24:08

So we're up against is pretty

24:10

strong. But we have to stand strong and

24:12

stay focused and powerful, keep our

24:14

eyes on the prize, which we always do. What's

24:17

next for you? Yeah,

24:19

I'm going to take a minute, catch my breath. I'm going to write

24:21

this book that I think is important. I

24:23

think that's also part of civil

24:26

rights work is some of us taking a minute

24:28

to put the pieces together and talk

24:30

about where we are and how we get

24:32

where we want to go. And then I'll be thinking

24:34

about the next way that I am

24:36

supposed to contribute to this work. This is my life's

24:39

work. But I'm mostly I'm

24:41

unashamed to say I'm proud, proud

24:43

of what I've been able to accomplish.

24:45

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do

24:48

and thank you for all that you've already

24:50

done. I appreciate it. Thank you, and neither

24:52

thank you for all you've done. Ivol

24:55

has identified a wide range

24:57

of inequities and the small

25:00

and big actions needed to dismand

25:03

told them like ifol

25:05

I look at what lies ahead with clear

25:08

eyes, sustainable progress

25:10

is not easy. So

25:13

how do we move forward. I'm

25:16

struck by Eiffel's emphasis

25:19

on the interconnectedness of civil

25:21

rights issues and the need

25:24

for civil rights leaders to speak with

25:26

one voice. This

25:28

is a path we need to follow.

25:34

On the next episode, I'm speaking with

25:36

a comedian and filmmaker w

25:39

Canal Bell about his new

25:41

documentary series We

25:43

Need to Talk About Cosby.

25:46

Bill Cosby is the trojan horse for having the bigger

25:48

conversation about rape culture in America. And

25:50

it's not a conversation that lots of people want to have. More

25:52

people say no than yes. But the people showed up

25:55

really shut up, including many of the survivors.

25:58

And look for a special episode in

26:00

time for the Oscars. I'll

26:02

be talking with the President of the Academy

26:05

of Motion Pictures, Don Hudson

26:08

about the academy recent changes

26:10

in the aftermath of Oscar So White.

26:14

Getting Even is a production of Pushkin

26:16

Industries and is written and hosted by

26:18

me Anita Hill. It

26:21

is produced by Mola Board and Brittany

26:23

Brown. Our editor is Sarah

26:25

Kramer, our engineer is Amanda

26:27

kay Wang, and our showrunner

26:30

is Sasha Matthias. Luis

26:33

Gara composed original music for

26:35

the show. Our Executive producers

26:38

are Mia Lobel and

26:40

Lee tal malad Our. Director

26:43

of Development is Justine Lane.

26:46

At Pushkin thanks

26:48

to Heather Fane, Carly Migliori,

26:51

Jason Gambrel, Julia

26:53

Barton, John Schnarz, and

26:56

Jacob Weisberg. You can

26:58

find me on Twitter at

27:00

Anita Hill and on

27:02

Facebook at Anita Hill.

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