Welcome to Discovering Downie. I'll be your host, jD as we listen in on the experiences and analysis from three huge fans of The Hip who have a blind spot for Gord's solo works. Meet Craig, Justin, and Kirk as they part in this epic 11-part podcast.

We kick the show off by starting at the start with Coke Machine Glow part 1.

Transcript:

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[1:26] Welcome, music lovers. Long Slice Brewery presents Discovering Downy.

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[1:34] Hey, it's JD here, and I'm joined by my pals Craig, Justin, and Kirk from Chino. While our love for the hip unites us, Gord's solo ventures remain uncharted territory for our trio.

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[1:47] Hence, I've gathered this team of enthusiasts to delve into the musical repertoire of the enigmatic frontman of the tragically hip, the late gourd downey so come along with us on this exploration as we navigate through his albums one by one in chronological order embarking on our quest of discovering downey we've assembled quite the motley crew here to talk uh to talk about gourd's oeuvre and we're excited to do that we're going to do this all summer long so buckle up fellas how are you doing not too bad living the a dream amazing excited excited to go on this jaunt with you you gents for sure yeah it should be pretty fun i agree i agree completely i i am i am from a hip starved uh area of the world which you know i guess most of the u.s unfortunately was hip starved for a long time but specifically down here uh in the la market i got to see some amazing shows in really small places but like to, to like find a hip album in a record store or, you know, like anything that comes close to hip preference for me, I just like, I get all giddy. So when we, you know, we connected to talk with other hip fans, um, was pretty exciting, but then just to learn more about Gord, um, yeah, this is, this is going to be quite the adventure, my friends, quite the adventure.

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[3:17] Yeah, I think so. What do you think, Craig?

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[3:20] Yeah, I've been sitting in this room, my office slash music room, with a couple of unopened Gord CDs that I have collected over the years and just looking for the right moment, I guess. And along came that moment, and thanks to you, JD, to make this happen and to bring me on board. Ah, but I am but one hand on the rudder. The other three hands you see belong to Kirk, Justin, and Craig. Egg so there's that justin tell us about your experience with the hip so uh the u.s is hip starved for the most part but uh growing up in vermont we are just quebec junior and uh we get a lot of uh tv and radio stations uh down here in the greater burlington area so i i grew up with hip on the radio and um i didn't really know anything about him but in high school i discovered phantom power on my own.

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[4:19] And, uh, that was it. I've been hopelessly blissfully lost ever since. And, um, my dad was kind of a hip fan, but you know, I think he was from like the old, you know, the, the hip crowd that they were trying to get rid of in the nineties, you know? And, uh, and so when I, when I came along, it was music at work and, you know, kind of the newer stuff that, that the old man probably wouldn't have liked too much, but, um, yeah, it's been a lot of fun. I got to see three hip shows and I was at the show in Ottawa two nights before the finale, uh, which was really amazing. Um, I got to see him in a basketball gym in Burlington and I got to see him in a bar in Albany, New York. And, uh, I feel like I got the, a pretty good sample size. Uh, I love them. I love them. Yeah. How about you, Craig? You have a unique role in this trio as well with your Tragically Hip experience. Share some of that with us.

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[5:19] Um, yeah, I've, I've been a big hip fan way back going to probably grade eight when I, when I first heard, I think New Orleans on the radio and, uh, you know, I liked it and I, um, I didn't buy the album right away. I was into heavier stuff at the time. I was a big GNR fan and I was kind of a metal guy. And, uh, then I heard 38 years old and funnily enough, I thought it was, um, uh, Tracy Chapman at first, when I first heard the voice, the vibrato and, you know, it's just on faintly in the background. And then I kind of turned it up and this is a good tune. And then, you know, they, they announced it was the hip. And so I went out and got the CD. I think I maybe ordered on Columbia house through my, uh, through my parents or, you know, five CDs for, for a penny or whatever. And, uh, 12 here in the U S yeah.

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[6:09] And yeah, I've been a huge hip fan ever since. And, and, um, yeah, I've been to, I think maybe 15, 16 concerts and, um, yeah, about a year ago, year and a half ago, I started playing in a hip tribute and it's just been a blast to sharing the music with, you know, the fans who don't get to see them anymore. And, you know, I wish I could, I wish they were still around and I could quit my job as a hip tribute guitar player, but unfortunately they're not playing anymore. I wonder if there's a Tracy Chapman angle, I wonder if we can get Luke Combs to cover some hip stuff and get them on the mainstream radio. you. It's a great idea. It's actually not. I don't think I want to hear that. No, but definitely giving them the credit they deserve. And man, Craig, like I seriously got goosebumps when you'd mentioned Tracy Chapman, like, you know, if you guys saw the Grammys, you know, that was performed and Tracy just sounded amazing. And, uh, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. And, and yeah, I think you hit that spot on that. I haven't looked it up, But I'm guessing if you look up the release date of Fast Car and up to here, I'm going to guess they're within a year. Yeah, that's probably very true.

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[7:27] So let's start at the start here with Coke Machine Glow. Kirk, any nuggets that you gleaned from production notes, anything like that, that you gathered on your fact-finding mission? Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I, I actually did because I'm a musician as well and, and, and do appreciate, uh, what goes into making an album. Um, uh, there, there was some pretty good information out there and, you know, especially knowing the hips catalog and, you know, they've had, they've had some different experiences from different producers and engineers and, and different recording experiences. And, um, so, you know, of course you're going, well, I'm going to get a lot of that. And, and then boom, you get hit right upside the head with, you know, But in the research that I did, I mean, they basically just, you know, had a couple, I think they had a kick mic and an overhead mic and just kind of a room mic. They played everything acoustic because they wanted to hear Gord's vocals.

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[8:30] They were in, I believe, in the studio that is no longer there. It was like a loft in Toronto that was owned by a couple of musicians that were a part of, you know, the band that was there and part of the recording team. Um and obviously getting all their you know getting all their schedules together and and you know various musicians from from various different bands within the area and uh and they just wanted this to be uh just kind of that raw essence right that it you know for us as hit fans at least for me like that's where i fell in love is like whether you listen to the music or see them live, like the energy that comes out of every song is, is palpable on so many different levels. And, and, you know, I think those that, that have had the experience to enjoy their music and especially live, like there's such an energy to it and whether it's, uh.

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[9:29] You know, whether it's one of their upbeat, you know, just rocking tunes or, or, you know, a simple acoustic there, they really know how to capture the emotion. And this album, Coke Machine Glow, I mean, yeah, wow. I mean, it was, again, it just felt like maybe one mic in the room and they just were circled around each other and they went for it. And one of the other notes that I heard that I thought was pretty surprising is they got a lot out of what was actually recorded and it sounded a lot bigger than what took place. I can get that. You could get a small little eight-inch speaker and, uh, put a mic on it and it could sound like you've got, you know, four Marshall, you know, full stacks grinding in front of you. So, you know, there's definitely some magic that can happen in the studio, but, um, uh, yeah, I, I think, uh, you know, I do a lot of stuff in theater and we always talk about how the set or the lights or the sound can become a character. And I think for me, the production elements of Coke Machine Glow became a part of the album.

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[10:37] It had to be done that way, in my opinion, to be able to capture the energy that it did. Yeah it's very sparse sounding production wise like obviously there's songs and we'll get into them really rich and really lush and uh you know have a lot going on but predominantly this record like you said is pretty sparse craig i wonder what you learned um in your research about the album proper.

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[11:09] Well, I went into this with a different approach where I purposely didn't look at any info for the first couple of weeks. And then I actually planned on recording this without having looked it up, but I decided I couldn't not. And the reason I had to look at the liner notes is because I was hearing all these voices that I recognized from Canadian bands. And what I was really thinking about was um what was can con and and the uh you know all the if you don't know the the story of can con basically it's the canadian content rules that um you know radio stations in canada have to play a certain amount of you know canadian written produced um music and the variety of musicians playing on this album we've got you know sky diggers we've got eric's trip we've got the hip We've got Dinner Is Ruined, who wasn't a band I had heard of out West, but looked them up today and quite interesting. And just this all-star cast of musicians from all these really cool indie bands. And that's what really struck me. Yeah, I couldn't put it better. An all-star group. And I should have mentioned, I guess, The Odds, of course, with Stephen Drake. He was so heavily involved with engineering and playing bass on it. And, and, uh, that was the voice that actually I was referencing. And I'll talk about that on the track when it comes up. Oh, cool. Okay.

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[12:36] Justin, I'm wondering for you what the title means to you. What does it evoke? Um, I kind of, my brain goes to the golden rim motor in right. And late at night in a hotel, just kind of looking out the window and there's that freaking coke machine that's probably buzzing and nothing's cold in it and there's that glow lighting up a couple of cars outside the hotel room um it seems like a pretty good time to write an album or a book of poetry yeah just in my my mind went the same place yeah the lofty pines motel the the golden rim motor in.

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[13:19] Yeah. There's a couple other hotels mentioned on this record as well. There's the Phoenix. Um, I'm trying to think, is there another one? Hmm. There's a poem, uh, in the book, Minneapolis hotel room. Oh, wow. Yeah. So definitely a road record, huh? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And the other thing I think that, um, I didn't know going into this, that it was so closely connected to the phantom power album with a lot of songs that now with the re-release of phantom power we're we're seeing alternate versions of you know mystery and some of these other songs which is really really neat to discover at the same time yeah i agree with that i i delved pretty deeply into the the poetry book and it was amazing how many references to hip songs especially of that era um but even dating back to the early nineties with some live shows and how long this material had incubated. I bought, I don't know which album, but it came with a recording of a concert in 94. And there are several references that made their way into the poetry or into the lyrics of some of the songs.

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[14:31] It's not on the music album, but it's in the, I think it's the first poem in the book was was bumblebee what is now bumblebee as the bonus track from phantom power right um the usa today bit was in this concert in 94 and it took you know years for that to come out and and there are other references from that show that are that are in coke machine globe of the album and the book it's it's really interesting how long it took for all this stuff to, surface. You have to imagine though, that as, as a writer, you know, you're going to go into recording an album and, and, you know, Gord being primary, you know, after a time writer, you can end up with some stuff that just doesn't make it. And, you know, it's hard to let go of stuff. You know, if you've, if you've done any type of creation, I don't care if it's video creation or writing or poetry or songs or whatever, like it's hard to just let that stuff go. Cause it's, It's whether you're telling a story about yourself or something you experienced or, you know, you want to get it out there, especially if you're a creative person. So I imagine Gord had, you know, and you read all the time and you hear on the interviews and he carries around a notebook and is basically writing every day.

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[15:47] So uh but it is it is amazing and especially being a hip fan to see you know i noticed that as well when i was listening to some of the bonus stuff like hey wait that's a hit song why is that on here yeah you know and then you got to go back and you got to find the album that it's on because i was like justin i i wasn't introduced until the hip you know until i think 2000 uh with a canadian friend that i worked with and then i actually took a trip up to vancouver and it was like there's hip everywhere and i was like this is what's this all about how come i don't know about these you know this this band so yeah you know that i i really kind of came into play during that time and and beyond so of course i love the stuff that that came before it but for me there's something about being a part of what gets released when you're you know i'm i'm buying the albums or cds as they're coming out and then i'm seeing the tour so you know of course that heavy content with with, with those particular albums. So yeah, I have to imagine a lot of that, uh, came back in, into this particular one. And I mean, how long was the band together before this came out? 12 years, something. Almost, almost 15 or 20, maybe.

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[16:57] Yeah, well, yeah, from the very beginning, but since the recording stuff started, so, you know. 87, the first one came out in 87. Yeah. This, to me, it felt like a release valve for everything that Gord couldn't or wouldn't put on Hips. It wasn't polished, you know what I mean?

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[17:18] And he had all, I mean, there's a hundred pages of poetry and all these songs that are, you know, objectively strange.

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[17:27] Um, and I, I think it just stuff that he knew wouldn't fly on a hip album that he had carried with him for years. And like I said, that show in 94 that he was work workshopping this stuff and it didn't make the cut with the band. So let's use it up now. Now, I'm very curious, as we get into the songs, to hear what you guys are thinking about some of these songs in their objective strangeness, as you put it, Justin. Or, you know, are some of them hip-adjacent? Are there any on here that you think, you know, the band could have put together? Obviously, other than the last track, which they did, and we can compare and contrast that when we get there. But are we ready to go into this record track by track? Let's do it. All right, we start with Star Painters. Who wants to kick this one off?

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[18:29] Well, I'll take it. Yeah, Star Painters to me was like a palate cleanser. This was like Gord saying, this is not a hip album. And right off the bat, it's, it's a little strange. Uh, you got the accordion and, um, you know, the almost like a spoken word type thing. And yeah, it's just very obviously not the hip. So the first line, um, is, uh, ended up in music at work with freak turbulence. The myth is neither here nor there. So there are definitely, you know, there's some continuity there. And I think those two albums came out the same year. Didn't they? 2000. Coke Machine Glow was 2001 Okay well But Very close Very close They were likely recorded Right around the same time Yeah Yeah.

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[19:19] There are themes that do persist for sure. But yes, this is not a hip song to be clear. I agree. And Craig, yeah, I think you hit it right on the head. You know, Gord was like, hey, come along for the ride, but this is going to be something different.

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[19:40] And I really appreciate it. I mean, and I've heard that this song actually turned people away, right? Right. Like they didn't want to give it any more of a listen because of it. And, you know, I can say, yeah, I can say that, you know, for me again, I'm hip starved. So I'm actually really surprised at myself that I didn't dive in at the time and that that it really took this project to, you know, get me to start paying attention. Attention and at first it was difficult you know obviously this song but the entire album was like you're like you wanted a little more hip but then you had to understand you know what he needed to get out this song honestly for me is is one of my favorites off of the album and i'll tell you why it's the line the star painters are taking over now the scaffolding is in place your anesthesiologist tonight is washing up and on her way like i heard that and i just stopped and smoking your joint.

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[20:50] Packing it up yeah getting the next one it it it it's it's it's gordon it's it's it's the, this is this song this album is not going to be for the faint of heart and uh and you know strap in like you said buckle up so i i had never heard anything by the dinner is ruined but you know trying to dive into to see what these guys are about the avant-garde and very strange ambient sounds and there's uh accordion and all kinds of weird stuff and that's very much dinner is ruined i i did listen to them um during this process and with that in mind on On the rest of the album, they feel pretty restrained compared to what they would normally have written or put out. But I think on this first one, they're just kind of like, to hell with this. We're going to do what we're doing. Yeah, sequencing is so important. You know, when you make a record, there's no accident that this song is first, like Greg said. You know, that sort of palate cleanser, introducing what the concept of this record is going to be. And you're right like if you came here expecting fully completely part two you know you're barking up the wrong fucking tree so there's that yeah vancouver divorce.

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[26:08] Yeah, definitely a departure from the first track from Star Painters, right? This is a, I mean, almost written for radio hit. It's so easy to listen to and it's so addicting. The thing that really struck me, and it took me a couple of listens to hear it, but the bass is just one note over and over like a heartbeat, just a rhythm. And it's just the same note for 20, 25 seconds. And then, you know, it, it moves on from there, but, um, it was really, it was lovely. Um, but I, uh, one of the things that, that started to strike me and I don't know if it was Vancouver divorce or, or something else, but I think there's two schools of thought about this album. And again, this is a common theme with Gord Downie is it's either a little bit about Adolf Hitler or it's really a lot a bit about Adolf Hitler.

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[27:13] There are so many ties to World War II throughout this album and the book and everything that Gord kind of does. Um, and I, I, I tried not to think about that going into all this, but it does, it does kind of get there, um, pretty quickly. I think, I don't know. I don't know if Vancouver has anything to do with the song or it's just, it fits well, you know, like the way that he explained writing Bob Cajun, it just, it rhymes. Right that's the town we're using you know i know in one of the live clips i saw before this song he said something about you know if if this couple can't make it in in paradise which in this case paradise is vancouver um debatable debatable maybe but um he um yeah then then i guess they can't make it anywhere yeah and i i didn't get any world war ii from it but i i didn't dive into lyrics quite as heavily i'm more of a music guy the lyrics are the last thing i digest when i listen to music so it takes me multiple listens um i don't typically read lyrics i like them to sort of hit me you know over the years um yeah did you guys get the uh the hortons reference.

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[28:27] That one made me chuckle so the thing that i that i picked up on the hortons thing is he says sitting here at the hortons so you know this is important nobody sits at a tim hortons well they used to it used to be it used to be like a bar yeah oh yeah and it had lots of tables and chairs Yeah. And that's, that's far different from our experience with, with any Hortons chain down here. Yeah. Well, the thing that I think is interesting is that syllabically he could have said Tim Hortons, but instead he says the Hortons. The Hortons. I wonder if that's like to avoid the.

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[28:57] Commercialism of saying Tim Hortons or like, it's just an interesting choice when it's the same number of syllables. Yeah. And I also think just, um, a lot of times Gord will choose a word that is almost unrhymable on purpose. And I think this is one of those cases Hortons. So it must be important and important. Yeah. It's, it's just, I love that. I love that. How about you, Kirk?

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[29:21] What do you think? From a music standpoint? Cause like Craig, I, I, I do, do i i enjoy both and and and i'll end up reading lyrics as i go and and in this particular thing it was hard not to read uh a lyrics just to understand the connection as you're listening but this is one of those songs as well when when you think about it here you know how they recorded like holy crap how did they get that big of a sound out of what you you know at least in the the research that i did was very minimalist type of recording you know this kind of a squarish box and and and not really acoustically treated and you know in in you know you know in in the heart of toronto and all kinds of other stuff going on like i heard as well like they were being evicted and so they only had a certain time schedule to be able to get this recorded and then you hear the story about how like they're having a party downstairs and they're throwing couches around and gourd shows up and in his cowboy hat and goes uh hey would you guys mind you know being quiet for a little bit i'm i've tried to record i just can't imagine you're in that room and gourd down he walks in and says hey i'm recording tracks upstairs i think he was with kevin hearn from uh.

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[30:36] You know uh bare naked ladies and and and uh and then they go back up and they record but just the fullness of this, this album. Um, and to me, I, you know, that's the thing I wanted to mention. Uh, uh, I believe it was this tune when you hear the keys, I don't know that Kevin got a credit on it, but I know he recorded a couple of tunes here. And so for me, I'm actually a pretty big BNL fan and I've seen them 20 times, something like that. But Kevin Hearns keys was very kind of prevalent. Um, and even if it wasn't him, you could, you could definitely hear the influence of it. So the powerfulness of this song is, is, is palpable for sure. Yeah. Yeah, looking it up, I think it was, sorry, it was, yeah, Jose Contreras played the organ on this tune. So he's the leader of By Divine Right, which is another very cool Canadian band that I remember listening to. I had their first album. But yeah, Kevin Hearn is definitely all over this album. Them yeah i gotta say as well from a lyrics perspective my money there's a phrase in this song that belongs on the podium along with you know it could have been the willow nelson could have been the wine you know taking advice from a prost or taking a compliment from a prostitute the line which by the way i play that song every night for my daughter at bedtime and my wife still Still haven't caught on yet.

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[32:00] That's a good line. What the hell is this? You said it's art. Just fucking mirror it. Mirror. Yeah. Like you hang up your hat when you write a line like that. You just, you're done for the day. Put your briefcase together and you walk out the door, punch out, you know, that's a fucking great lyric. So I think, I think if, if I may, the, the person being divorced is an artist in this story. Right. right? And there are many references to art. There's the line, when the stampede's an optical course, when ancient train has hit old transient horse. And ancient train and old transient horse were capitalized. And I said, what the hell is that? So I deep dove that. And it is in reference to horse and train, which is a Canadian painting, which is based on a poem written by a South African anti-apartheid poet with the line and against a regiment. I oppose a brain and a dark horse against an armored train, which is just spectacular imagery.

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[33:03] But again, tying in the art theme to the first line is such classic Gord Downie writing. Jesus Christ. Yeah. You've just blown my mind. Blown my mind. Like for real. This is track two. So get me. Yeah. Yeah. And I have to say too, the noise guitar at the end by I'm assuming Dale Morningstar is just amazing. I have a thing for loud, screechy feedback guitars. It just puts me in this state of zen for some reason. Like if you know the song Drown by Smashing Pumpkins, there's like four minutes of feedback at the end. And to me, that is so relaxing.

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[33:45] I have that same thing written down, Craig. I have excellent screeching guitar going into and continuing through the third verse and out. One of the other things I have written down, though, I just want to share with you guys quickly. This is just sort of funny. When he says he's sitting at the Tim Hortons, or he's sitting at the Hortons, I know that's not true because on two occasions, I was walking down the Danforth and saw him sitting in the front bench of Timothy's Coffee, coffee, which is like a, like a Starbucks adjacent brand that doesn't exist anymore, but it used to. And it was minutes from his house. I didn't know where his house was, nor did I stalk him, but I knew it was in the area, like minutes away. And he would just sit there and he was sitting there with a, with a fucking notebook the one time and another time he was on a Mac book. But to me, it was, you know, one of those cool moments that I was like, I live in the same neighborhood. It's Gord Downie. This is so cool.

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[34:41] Man, I wish that the Tim Hortons here in the States had a place to sit because mostly you just find them at a rest stop on the highway or you go in and you order a donut and you leave kind of establishment. No Hortons down here in California. I have to travel. Thankfully, I get to travel a lot for work. And if I see a Hortons, it's like, it's immediate picture and text to my family because we did a road trip and, you know, we went through Detroit and we went through Niagara and went through Toronto. And so my family fell in love with Tim Hortons. So is there a sponsor, right? JD? Oh yeah. The big sponsor. I'm eating Timbits right now.

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[35:22] Mmm. Delicious Timbits. Thanks Tim Hortons. Um next up is uh sf song and to me this is like observational songwriting 101 to me i can just picture him under the covers of his hotel room with a pillow over his head trying to drown out the sound of this chambermaid tap tap tapping and knock knock knocking on the door it sounds as though and then him walking through the lobby and out into the front area of the phoenix hotel and he just describes everything he sees now i'm sure there's more to it than that but to me that's just beautiful.

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[36:03] Yeah. Yeah. For me, one of my first shows was actually in San Francisco at the Fillmore West. And, um, you know, there's been some, you know, or so I've, so I've researched, there's been some pretty classic, uh, um, shows that have happened there. And, you know, I, I had a pretty, pretty amazing experience as well. I was with, with the Canadian friend that had, um, you know, introduced me to them and, and, uh, uh, but you, when I heard that song at first, I just immediately thought, you know, I'm like, hmm, I wonder if he was writing the song when he was there, when I saw him in 2000. And, uh, you know, whether he is or not, that's what I'm going to go, go to, go to bed with and stick to. I also noticed and really appreciated, um, uh, the breathing in the beginning of the song. Um, and then the reference towards the end, uh, about it, uh, uh, I miss my lung, Bob.

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[37:04] That we talked about and, and, and, and then remembering the ads, remembering the ads that were going around at the time on the sides of buses and on, um, on, on billboards and, uh, you know, growing up in, in, in Southern California and, and, uh, seeing smoking ads. And then all of a sudden smoking ads start going away. And then you see the ad of, I miss my lung, Bob, or Bob, I miss my lung. I like to paraphrase. Yeah. I, uh, that's one of the lyrics I had to look up. I had no clue that was an actual thing. So that was pretty neat to, to come across those posters. I remember them from when I was a kid, of course, I'm East Coast, so it's not like they were around here, but I do remember seeing it on the news or something like that, the campaign.

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[37:52] The other thing that struck me was Chambermaid and the references to Chambermaid, which are a continuation of Phantom Power, right? With vapor trails and escape as a hand. Right. Right. I also picked up on the click, click, click. You mentioned J.D. Off the top and those sounds. And he later on experimented with those types of things like drip, drip, drip and We Want to Be It and the chick, chick, chick of the matches in Seven Matches.

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[38:24] Oh, wow. Yeah, it's just a little thing I picked up on. And also, I have a note here about just the low register, like just him singing in that beautiful low voice. And he, on this album, covers so many different subtleties in the way he uses his voice. Like a song like Coming Up Canada Geese, all of a sudden he's just a totally different singer, singing very um yeah almost like an indie indie rock singer yeah totally get that um you know also i think there's many examples of him singing in alter egos on on this record really expanding his repertoire you know as it were right like we start to hear him singing like this on the post phantom power records uh on occasion and um it's not startling because we're sort of used to it should we move on to trick rider only if you want me to cry right like this okay so this song says it's it's dedicated to c it's i believe it's his daughter I don't know. On the album that comes along with the new release, his daughter, I'm blanking on the name, starts with a C, reads this poem.

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[39:53] So I'm guessing she was the girl on the horse.

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[39:56] So I can't remember the name, Claire maybe or Chloe or I forget. Makes complete sense.

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[40:04] I don't know this, so I'll ask it. How many kids does Gord have and are they spread out in age quite a bit? I don't know the second part of the question, but I know he's got four. There's Lou and Willow, who both played on his former partner's record, played keyboard and drums, respectively. And then there's Willow, who is an artist, like painter and jewelry artist, and she's very talented. She did the away as mind cover as well I did know that I think I think I asked that question because at the end you know of Gordon's life he did that interview with Peter Mansbridge, and talked about his son and got very emotional and his son was young he referenced his age and said he was quite young and this was 2016 or 17 whenever the interview was, and which would have been 15 years after this album came out.

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[41:03] So, that's where my head went with how many, how old, just trying to put the puzzle pieces together. I was going to make mention when I was doing a little bit of research, there was a, uh, uh, you know, a fan video, uh, when, when I guess they toured this album and I believe they were actually in, uh, it might've been in Vancouver when they're playing it, but he was, you know, having an exchange with, with someone in the audience about, you know, uh, your nightlights on going to bed. And uh i think the fan might have been thinking that the song was about something else and and he referenced that right back to her very quickly in kind of a snide mark saying i don't think it means what you think it means about going to bed and and uh that stuck out to me it was you know one that he had no problems interacting with the fan and and kind of correcting them on on their interpretation uh of the song but it the song is is is beautiful and in so many different ways and you know all of us being fathers and and and having you know those experiences and and then obviously having the emotional tie-in with with gordon and what he's done with the band you know in the tragically hip and and and then with his solo stuff and and uh it it's it's gorgeous it's beautiful whatever adjective you can come up with that that uh you know brings that feeling to you.

Track 3:

[42:31] As a father in those moments when you're just you can't even can't even process i did this i had a hand in this and this human is is going to grow out into the world and And I'm a better human because of it. And to be able to, you know, put that, um, you know, in lyrics and in a song, uh, again, just adds to the, uh, adds to the amazement, uh, that that gentleman was able to give us.

Track 3:

[43:04] Yeah. And the vocal performance by both Gord and, uh, Julie Dwaran is, is so full that they have such control of their voices. Pitch perfect, emotional, just such a song. Her soft awe in the background puts this song over the top. It wouldn't be the song without her contribution to it. That's no disrespect to Gord, but the song isn't the same without Julie Dwaran. And I thought that my favorite father-daughter song was Thrown Off Glass from In Violet Light, But this one, my daughter is the one jumping off shit. She is trick riding 24 hours a day and I'm like, oh my God, kill me. Yeah. So I looked it up. It is Claire Downey who reads the poem on the new edition. So I'm guessing that's who C could be. Got to be.

Track 3:

[44:05] The song is way too personal for it not to be. is is julie did i understand that she's she did some stuff with the hip as well yeah, yeah she sang um in some live shows with them and i think was part of some tribute stuff at the end too i may be wrong um i know i know kate fenner was um on one tour as a backup music Music at work. But I feel like, I'm pretty sure I've read, yeah, that Julie was on, doing some backups on one of the albums. I could be wrong. Yeah, I remember that too. I feel like, maybe now for Plan A, possibly. That sounds right. I know, although I know... Oh, yeah. Oh, that's her name. Yeah.

Track 3:

[44:52] Also from Kingston. There's another woman who does now for planning the title track. Yeah, Sarah Harmer. She's the vocal on... Anyways, that's a different album, different band. Different podcast. Different podcast, yeah. Oh, and I have to... Last thing about Trick Rider for me is that slide guitar that just doesn't quite hit the note. I just love it. It's kind of that quarter tone or something. It reminds me of, if you know the Faith No More cover of Easy, right before the solo when Mike Patton goes up to the, ew, and almost like purposely is in between notes. I just think it's so neat. I was going to say both vocally and musically with a variety of instruments throughout several songs, obviously this one as well, is there's just that, it's not quite there, but it's also, it adds again to that character of the song. I heard something or read something about one of the musicians, I believe the guitar player that, that was part of this, like he hit a note and he, he would just beat the shit out of it until it became the note that was right for the song, whether it started off right or not, he, it, it was going to become that.

Track 3:

[46:03] And, and I love that thought or that prospect, right? We get so, we get so caught up in, Oh, everything's got to be perfect. I got to tune my guitar up exactly right. I've got to have the mic place perfectly. And I've got to have, you know this tonality and and sometimes it's just good to just just let it go and let that emotion come through more so than you know the technical note of itself yeah yeah there's no such thing as a wrong note if it's you know played with with with confidence and intention and yeah yeah so next we go to a song that i think could totally be a hip jam to me this song he's singing It's the first song on the record where he's singing in a tone in a register that we recognize.

Track 3:

[49:09] So Craig, you said it, um, this is punk rock and Gord loved punk rock, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, but it's old guy punk rock. Like it's, it's, this is guys who are not punk rockers anymore trying to, to do punk or at least the story, right.

Track 3:

[49:26] Um, within the song. And, and I'm not saying that about the musicians that played the song. I'm saying that about the story Gord tells here that, you know, they're, they're, they're buying weed from each other in a cornfield, right? In the dark you know um like i can picture my old man and his uncles or and his brothers my uncles just you know hiding from the cops at age 50 55 years old just feeling like be cool man shut up uh i love this song yeah great song i i gotta say i'll take the bullet guys here's my first criticism even though as much as i love um how they recorded it my goodness gracious i needed the drummer to use some sticks and not brushes like i needed to feel that those drums coming through in this song and and to make it punk rock like it was like they they you know hey let's find the jazz drummer to do the punk song um and not that it didn't serve it well and it's a in fact probably what i would have liked was that drum track with the brushes and another drum track on.

Track 3:

[50:35] Top of it with sticks and then also maybe adding the mics to get more of the tonality of the drums but again now that's just the music guy and me going i wanted to hear that i needed to hear that snap i needed to hear that crack i needed to hear the pop right sorry gonna use a uh a breakfast cereal reference but um i i i i wanted that for this song still love it it's It's funny because it opens on snare hits. Right.

Track 3:

[51:08] Yeah. But if I'm not mistaken and I'll, I'll completely eat my words, I believe they use brushes throughout Craig. Do you, did you go that deep or what did you think? I didn't, but I know for me, I definitely noticed that it, it, it felt like it should be heavier but i think that's part of what gave the song character was those heavy guitars that almost sounded like they were played at a low volume in a room jamming and i i thought it just gave it a unique character and and i have to say though my favorite part is actually at the end when when all of a sudden i actually picked up a guitar today just to see what was going on with this and and they go up from you know they're playing and you know you're one four five e e b and a and then um they go right up they just go up to that f and i know the first time i heard it it's just just so striking it just sounds so out of place and then after you've heard the song a couple times just so perfect such a such a great dissonance and.

Track 3:

[52:05] Really really um almost like a two you know 2000s indie rock feel almost like an arcade fire kind of three years before arcade fire was doing it kind of thing so wow it felt like a one take demo to me and they said fuck it it's good like run it i like that we'll do it live yeah me too do it we'll do it keep it but kirk yeah i think um it would be really interesting to see what the hip would have done with with that song like a fully polished yeah you know but but i felt the same about the next song chandler um you're listening to it again today in fact and again was like man with some different instrumentation you know change changing the tempo a bit on this is this is absolutely the uh potentially a hip song uh for me you know uh and uh yeah hard hard not to uh go into you know as he speaks about letting the opening the window inviting the vampires in and if i'm not mistaken this this song did pretty well was it a single.

Track 3:

[53:15] I don't think any of the solo stuff did particularly well. It was sort of under the radar, especially after this record came out. This record was highly anticipated, but I think early on the word got out that it wasn't hip, and so there were a lot of hip people that jumped up. A lot of people stayed on board, don't get me wrong. but um there was a good cohort that sort of veered away and it's interesting that the sum of the parts you know um the hip are it just goes to show you how magical they are as a as a fivesome because you take one component away you know and it's just not the same like gort sinclair's solo record is dynamite so are you know paul's three records they're really really good but they're not the hip yeah you know so i'm just and i think this is where i got it from i'm just you know looking looking up on spotify and if you go to gordonie this song has the most downloads of all the solo stuff oh okay so that that makes a lot of sense yeah i know there's a there's definitely a video for this yeah yeah but i i don't recall ever hearing.

Track 3:

[54:31] This song anything from this album on the radio i i had i did hear some later songs um but definitely not that you know that i heard so this is where hitler comes in big time um the.

Track 3:

[54:47] Hitler had a very odd sleeping pattern. He stayed up very late and would go to bed at like 6, 6.30 in the morning and then get up at noon and just spend his whole day working out maps and plans and this is where the advancement is and all this stuff. And there are so many, if you read between the lines references about the night of a thousand missteps, the loss that made him dogged, or it could have been the doggedness that caused the loss in the first place.

Track 3:

[55:18] And Chancellor, I mean, that was Hitler's position, you know? Wow. Marching armies in the night, smiling strangers riding by on bikes. That would be, you know, when the allies come into Paris or something, you know? Children's smoking, which there was a huge anti-smoking campaign in Germany during World War II, sloganeers. And he mentions in one of the first lines, invite the vampire in, open the windows before we go to bed to get the coldest air in the room, which is just before the sun comes up. And then at the end, talking about a few things that vampires don't like, all the things referenced between the vampire references are Hitler-ish things. So I don't know it that's that's where my head went and then um before you are wow i know that but but damn it i'm following gordon's path you know and he like i said he references justin you're taking us into dark places my friend and the word chancellor for me it was like hmm and then i started to kind of read into it and i was like yikes and by the way guys spoiler alert this won't be the last time i talk about hitler during this thing not that i love him let's put that out there but there are There are some real references to the war throughout this album. Yeah, that's really interesting.

Track 3:

[56:41] My mind went a completely different direction. I was thinking like a chancellor of a university. And again, I didn't read the lyrics. I didn't dig that deeply in. But it was funny because my daughter really likes this song. We kept playing in the car and I was explaining what a chancellor of a university was. And she said, oh, I thought it was like Chancellor Palpatine. Wow. and it turns out she was she was the right one yeah i guess she was she was closer than i was yeah wow look at that cross my read is so completely vastly different again my read is like bittersweet and romantic uh the chorus yeah i couldn't be a chancellor without you on my mind if i wasn't if i wasn't obsessed with you or thinking about you all the time time. Um, you know, who knows what I could have become. And on the, and in the video, isn't he riding around? He's on the swan boats. It's just, it does not make me. Swans. Yeah. Yeah. He does not make me, uh, feel like, like, uh, like he's referenced, referencing world war two, but that's fascinating. I can't wait to hear it again now.

Track 3:

[57:49] But at the end of that video, if you watch the full video at the very end, he's, it's revealed that he is the guy working the dock at the, at the swan boats and he takes off his coat and underneath it is a uniform that says guy. And he's the one taking the coins or the tokens or whatever for the people to ride the swan boats. So it's kind of like, uh.

Track 3:

[58:13] You know, when Hitler was a struggling artist before he became this global force and kind of took control, you know, he was romanticizing the idea of, of being chancellor of Germany. Wow yeah wow and i don't know wow reference to it or yes it's dark man because and again think of think of uh the song scared every hip show you go to everybody's everybody's slow dancing that's not a slow dance it's like we talked about in the other podcast it's like yeah that's the hips trick right or it's gorge yeah yeah 38 years old same thing long running same thing fiddler's green you know and and on and on and on these slow slow songs are are yeah miserable yeah and i have to say good yeah yeah yeah yeah and and the the vocal phrasing that the gourd uses on this just that, laid back where he just sort of hesitates on certain words i just just love it he's so unique that way. I think that's what separates him as a singer, is that phrasing.

Track 3:

[59:22] Oh, yeah. This is a really hard album to sing. And you guys are musicians and you play guitar and other instruments. I've always been a singer. And I cannot keep up with Gord on this album. I just can't. Like the chorus of this song, like, I'm discovering uses for you. But the way he throws uses for you together, it's like, it's almost like one overlaps the other. And it's like, that's impossible. And then on the more quaint side, I love that he rhymes pajamas by mispronouncing in a gourd-like way windows to rhyme with pajamas, right? Instead of windows. Oh, so great. By the way, that uses line, again, going back to Hitler's underlings, you know, doing experiments on twins and stuff like that. Like, this is, I think this is a dark one. I'm going to listen to it again tonight. And I can't wait to hear it. No.

Track 3:

[1:00:19] I hope I'm wrong. I think you're right. No, we know he likes the Second World War.

Track 3:

[1:00:26] And, you know, we've heard references to, you know, Nazis moving works of art or Russians moving works of art, you know, to stave off the Nazi army. And really quick, sorry, really quick shout out for the piano player. I'm guessing it was um hern but but man that piano is is really nice improvised piano solo yeah yeah it's a very sweet sounding song yeah bait and switch man yeah he got us the never ending present i was listening and and if you're a you know canadian of my age you knew right away who was singing backup so that was Stephen Drake because my mind went right to Wendy under the stars and um and you know right back to my you know my first car and being you know 16 years old and listening to the radio and and hearing the odds for the first time and and yeah just an unmistakable voice the harmonies are very distinct you know distinctly the odds and distinctly The one thing that I picked up was he mentioned his shoes were polished, which as we learned in the longtime running doc that he polished his shoes before every show.

Track 3:

[1:01:46] So I think he's talking about himself and it's kind of an introspective – I mean, he says I in every song, but I think this one might actually be about himself personally.

Track 3:

[1:02:00] I picture him standing on Broadview Avenue waiting for the streetcar. He says bus, but in my head it's a streetcar. And all the rest of the lyrics are the stuff that happens until the bus crashes the hill. Him dropping money inside the little money grabber on a bus. There's talk of that um but what i really what i really love about this song is how ahead of his time he is because this is like living in the present like being in the moment is so important and i've learned like through my mental wellness journey like how important it is to live in the moment and the idea that the moment can be never ending if you come about it with the right frame in my mind is so refreshing to hear. Amen. And of course they named the, um, uh, Michael Barclay wrote the book with using the title of the song.

Track 3:

[1:03:05] Sorry, I'm going to take a little detour off of this that I just have to bring up being, being the, uh, for the South American and someone that, uh, uh, you know, again, was always starving for hip. I've loved in this journey, discovering other Canadian bands. You guys were mentioning the odds. And, you know, I did the research a little bit on the dinner's ruined. And of course, you know, of the real statics from, you know, grace too. And we're all richer for having heard them. And, um, uh, I'm, I'm very excited, you know, during this to be able to take a dive into that music that I never got. Right. Cause I like Justin, you were lucky because you get a lot of that music, uh, in the Northeast.

Track 3:

[1:03:49] Um, no, no, no, we only get the hip and rush. Rush. There's no Canadian music except for the hip and Rush. I will say that. And Alanis, of course. but to do as a you know as a musician and and and being a big fan of many canadian bands you know rush is up there for me bare naked ladies is up there for me um obviously the tragic the hip is up there for me um but these other bands uh blue rodeo that has i think a little bit of a a um you know it did well here in the states um of course alanis and some of the others you know i want to I know more about the, uh, the ones that didn't get, uh, similar, similar stories to the tragically happened. And I'm really excited about taking that journey as well. And I love that, you know, that's one of the things that I've heard about in different, uh, uh, reading and, and interviews is Gord was such a proponent of getting, I mean, music out there, but, but specifically, obviously Canadian music and, and giving, you know, these, these not as well-known bands an opportunity.

Track 3:

[1:04:56] So, um, sorry, I just needed to take that little side journey there and, and, and share that with you guys. I'm with you. I'm with you a hundred percent. Just going off what you were saying, yeah, apparently Gord would actually stand side stage and watch a lot of these bands. Like he would just stay there for the whole set. And all these bands, you know, Eric's Trip and The Odds, they were all change of heart. They all played with the hip.

Track 3:

[1:05:23] And for me, it's been fun because I've been doing the same thing. I was listening to The Odds last night and I couldn't believe how many hit songs they had. You know they're a band i enjoyed but never really really got into i think i've seen them live a couple times but man they had their pop song they were yeah that's exactly it they were they're you know pop writing you know machines but yeah i'm excited i'm excited about the journey for sure and and especially getting connected with you guys and having the experience you know know, uh, um, uh, being from Canada and, and, and really experiencing that not only on the radio, but, but live as well, that, uh, that's going to be a great journey. Cause isn't it great when you go to see, you know, you go to see one of your favorite bands and the opener shows up, you never heard of them. And, and all of a sudden they become, you know, one of your favorites and you're, you're falling around and, you know, and then it's always hard if they do make it, you're kind of like, man, that was my band, but I liked it when they were small, you know, I want them to be big, but not that big. I, that's, I mean, I mentioned it with, with the hip, you know, like all my experiences and I got to see them, I don't know, seven, seven, eight times, something like that.

Track 3:

[1:06:36] Like the biggest venue I saw them in was, was probably 1200 people. And, um, you know, the Troubadour, I got to see them in and, and, and up in San Francisco, the Fillmore's, you know, it's, it's over a thousand, uh, might be closer to actually, I'm not sure. I'll have to look that up. But the thing that I loved about it is, you know, I'm a hockey guy. And I think I mentioned the story to, to you, JD, like we're close to the ducks and the Kings and, and most hockey teams are, you know, 50 plus percent, if not close to 70% Canadians. And so I'd go to a show, I'd be in Hollywood and I'd look over and be like, Oh, Hey, look, there's Luke Robitaille or, you know, Oh, there's Chris Pronger. There's, you know, Scott Niedermeyer, you know, I'm hanging it out and oh oh hey paul korea how's it going you like the hip too you know and um what an experience and then canadian actors as well i got to meet dan akroyd at at the house of blues hollywood and he introduced the hip on stage and then you know he's rat so uh you know for me it's so weird um when you talk of this band they were a club band to me you know i i've seen what they've done and where they've played. And so anyway, I I'm, I'm taking us off the, the album, but just wanted to share that with, with you gents. No, that's cool.

Track 3:

[1:08:04] So now we take a hard, right. And, um, we get the track, the soundscape, uh, nothing but heartache in your social life.

Track 3:

[1:11:14] Did you say a hard right or a hard Reich? Because again, the Hitler.

Track 3:

[1:11:20] I'm serious. So again, this goes back to the poetry and there's a poem called Toiletten in the book and it is about Hitler's, I'm not even inferring this, this is about Hitler's podium at Zeppelin Field in Nuremberg and it now has signs pointing tourists to the toilet. Um, and the, uh, similarities between that poem and this song or spoken word, whatever, um, it's a hundred percent about that. And Gord even stumbles on a lyric that they, that they leave in the song, um, when the podium sprouting weeds and he stumbles on rendered ridiculous by the time. So the podium is this massive concrete structure that when you see film of Hitler speaking to 150,000, 200,000 Germans during wartime, that's where this is. But it's still there, and it's sprouting weeds, and the podium and its purpose have been rendered ridiculous by the times. When are you thinking of disappearing? I mean, when are you falling off the map when the unknown that you're fearing is in the clearing? That's totally about surrendering in the war and the allied forces moving across the field to wipe out the Nazis.

Track 3:

[1:12:46] When you're getting king-size satisfaction in the turnstiles of the night from all the shaky pill transactions, if that's not Jewish prisoners going to a concentration camp running down the train tracks in the middle of the night. I don't know what it is. It's, again, a very dark thing, and I think it leads to Hitler's suicide. That's when are you thinking of disappearing? Yeah.

Track 3:

[1:13:16] And it is interesting to note that the asterisk that comes with the title in the lyrics, it says Dale Morningstar provided echoing screams at the end of the song. It doesn't just say backing vocals or call and answer. It's echoing screams. I was wondering who was calling back and forth with them. They kind of sound like, even though the topic sounds quite serious, they're having some fun with it. At the end kind of yelling back and forth with each other and um and also of note um adam agoyan the filmmaker plays plays uh the classical guitar on this track and and one other track and so he's uh i think i read that that maybe this song was sort of based off some some things he brought in, came into the studio one day and they they sort of riffed off what he was doing and put this sort of spoken word. I also got, I don't know if you guys got this, but I almost got like an M&M vibe, like just like attitude wise. And of course I believe this would have been before M&M anyways, but, but just that, that sort of attitude and way he was rattling off these lines.

Track 3:

[1:14:29] Yeah, I get it. Absolutely. So the other me, you know, I was trying to get my, my head out of World War II with this, and it was easy to see in 2024 that Gord predicted the future of social media, right? This is before Facebook and MySpace and all this stuff, but this is 100% in line with everybody's mental health problems stemming from not having enough likes on their posts, right? This could absolutely be interpreted 20 plus years later in that way, if you were to look at it from that angle. Yeah, I...

Track 3:

[1:15:13] Obviously still like absorbing everything in the referencing that you're speaking of, uh, Hitler and world war two and, and how, you know, JD and Craig were like, didn't necessarily get that right away. I, I definitely, you know, heard the references. I, I knew of the references from some of the hip tunes. Um and uh and then just seeing this whole journey that he's taking with just coming out there with a solo album in the first place and then you hear about how um and again it's it's you know i don't know the exact i haven't spoken with the other members but some of the solo stuff really caused a bit of a rift within the band and then if you start thinking about the product of the hip you You know, this is where a big portion of their fan base starts turning away.

Track 3:

[1:16:04] And I wonder if that tension came through in some of the music. For me and you, Justin, we discovered them during this time. And like most bands, you don't become close to them. And, you know, I'll take a few exceptions. You know, Led Zeppelin. I wasn't there when the albums came out. But the band meant a lot to me later in life. But nothing like, I'll give an example of other bands, Rush and Barenaked Ladies. I went to those shows when those albums came out, same thing with The Hip, as it relates to 2000 and beyond. And so my reference point is there. Um, and then Gord goes off and decides to, to do this solo work. And, um, and not only does he does the solo work, but he starts taking that poetry side in the book that comes out along with it. He starts throwing in spoken word and we could spend a lot of time with the discussion about poetry versus spoken word versus lyrics versus, um, uh, you know, the, the, the written prose and, and, and where it all comes together and the different attitudes towards it. Um, but I, I'm, I'm honestly kind of shaking inside just thinking about the, the ability that, that Gord has to take a historical perspective.

Track 3:

[1:17:23] Area and put it into a spoken word and or song. But then in the same breath, depending on how you come at it, you get something completely different. If you don't know those references specifically, you're going to find something from a meaningful standpoint. So sorry. I mean, you really got me goosebumps in there, Justin. Well, I think that if I had never read lyrics from the hip, I would never have approached it from this angle.

Track 3:

[1:17:51] But it's kind of hard to not look at some of that stuff. He did an interview in the early 90s with some TV, whatever, and they said, what are your songs about? And he said, all of our songs are about war. And I remember seeing that on YouTube about 10 or a dozen years ago and thinking, oh, okay. Now, whether he was speaking Speaking of literal war or a relationship or conflict within the band or whatever, family, something, but there's a struggle or something that needs to be resolved in each one of these songs. And so I've, for better or worse, looked at a lot of hip stuff from that point forward, whatever year it was, as is Gord talking about literal war here. And that's just where I picked up on. Was he a history-type major? Did he have family that maybe participated in the war? There is a short poem in the book that is about his grandfather serving in World War II.

Track 3:

[1:18:56] Yeah, I could see that. Both my grandparents served in World War II, and I was a history major, and so I can see where that tie comes from.

Track 3:

[1:19:08] I hope we can move past the war stuff soon. Thanks justin yeah anything else from you craig well yeah i know i have nothing to add other than i love the little bait like bass kind of jazz odyssey thing that steven drake goes off on at the end if you if you notice the last like five seconds he just does this little improvised producer as well noodle it's pretty right bass player yes yes yeah engineering okay engineer anyways yeah Yeah, engineer. Well, that's what we got for you for this first episode. We're going to take a break and recuperate and recalibrate and take some electrolytes and we'll be back. Now, pick up your shit.

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