0:10

Hello everyone. This is John Forrester

0:13

and I'm here to talk with Jukka Bakhmann.

0:17

And Jukka, thank you for

0:19

talking with me this morning. Well, it's your late

0:21

afternoon. Would you tell us where you are

0:23

and say hello?

0:26

Okay, so I'm Jukka Bakhmann. I'm

0:28

located in a town called Kokkola

0:31

in the western coast of Finland,

0:34

right about

0:35

the middle when going from

0:37

north to south or vice versa. Okay.

0:40

And I think I read on Instagram that you were having

0:43

your one year anniversary of living there. Yes,

0:46

we moved from a smaller town

0:48

into a current town and this

0:51

is closer to where our kids study

0:53

and where my wife works. And as I

0:55

work in the whole country,

0:57

it doesn't really matter to me where I live.

1:00

I can follow the suit where other people want

1:03

me to be. Okay.

1:06

And I should tell everybody that the

1:08

reason we're talking is you're a GTD coach

1:10

and trainer in Finland.

1:12

Yes. I asked you to talk

1:14

about something that you had interest in

1:17

and we came up with the idea of talking

1:19

about the power of writing things down and you

1:21

actually have quite a bit to say about that.

1:23

We can launch right into that. I can

1:25

just start by saying that you

1:28

wrote to me that there is definite power in writing things

1:30

down. And when externalized from the

1:32

mind, our perception of things that took

1:35

our attention changes. So I would

1:37

love for you to just launch into that and

1:39

talk about your

1:42

worry list, which is interesting to me. And

1:46

whatever else you'd like to talk about, about the power

1:48

of writing things down. Okay.

1:51

So if we'll go right into

1:53

the worry lists,

1:55

this is actually a concept that I came

1:57

across when

1:59

I had a family member who got sick

2:04

physically and it's

2:07

not a sickness like flu, it's something more

2:12

grave or worse

2:15

at that time. Things are better now

2:17

but when that happened there

2:20

was

2:22

only so much you can do yourself. I

2:24

mean there is medical

2:26

aid and so forth but

2:30

things are uncertain at

2:32

a certain stage

2:34

before they hopefully they eventually

2:37

turned into good but at

2:39

that point a

2:41

lot of things that were really out

2:43

of my control. I could comfort,

2:46

I could be there for the person but I

2:48

could not actually do anything

2:51

more than that but this was a matter

2:53

that was still on my mind all the time more

2:56

or less and that I felt

2:58

that that created anxiety. So

3:01

I started to look around for solutions that how

3:04

could I cope

3:07

with that anxiety and actually be

3:09

more present for the person who needed

3:12

that. I

3:14

came across the idea of worry lists

3:16

and this was something that was extensively

3:19

available in the internet. As

3:24

basically an age old tool I learned

3:26

that it has been in use

3:30

in some form for at least 20 years.

3:33

I'd be a full credit for

3:35

coming up with the idea. Yeah,

3:37

no, no it's not. Frankly

3:41

nothing that I present

3:45

comes from

3:48

my

3:50

subjective experience

3:52

with these ideas and solutions.

4:00

So

4:02

the worry list, the idea is

4:04

really

4:05

simple. So you externalize the

4:08

worry in your mind. So basically

4:10

you just write that down. Most

4:15

of these examples

4:17

that I came across, they

4:19

had some kind of dysfunctional

4:23

clarifying step embedded

4:26

in them. And coming

4:28

from GTD background, I

4:31

of course approach

4:33

this more like a mind sweep. So I'll

4:36

write down what's on my mind and then

4:38

I'll try to process it in some way. And

4:43

I found

4:46

out that this is something that, if

4:52

I write down something that I'm

4:54

anxious about or something that I worry

4:57

about, it's not something that I could actually

5:00

pick an action that I would do on that

5:03

subject. But I

5:06

could park that on a list,

5:09

kind of like a someday maybe list. So

5:12

you revisit that idea at certain

5:15

point. It doesn't go anywhere and

5:17

you see whether you still

5:19

like that or you don't. In

5:21

this case you usually don't. But

5:24

I found that having

5:28

that on a separate list that

5:30

I in my mind more

5:32

or less framed as a someday maybe list. I

5:36

followed the other advices I

5:38

got from the worry list or the

5:41

research I did on the subject. So

5:44

I had essentially a someday maybe

5:46

list that had some

5:48

worries in there. And

5:51

I had a dedicated time a week

5:53

when I looked into that. And so

5:56

I, incidentally,

5:59

paired that up with the weekly review.

6:02

At the same time I went through my someday

6:05

maybe list, I opened up this

6:08

worry list and I had a time segment

6:10

for that. It was initially half an hour

6:12

which is really long. I

6:15

trimmed it down to 20 minutes then 15 minutes but in

6:21

the beginning when it was half an hour the

6:24

idea is that you actually go through

6:26

these subjects for

6:28

that designated time segment

6:31

and you let yourself really

6:34

wallow in the worry. So you

6:36

focus on nothing else but worrying

6:39

on the subject. And

6:42

at least for me it worked so that

6:44

I more or less got really fed

6:47

up with the idea of worrying about

6:49

this subject and my mind learned to

6:51

trust that when

6:53

I have the next time

6:57

for this during the week which would be the next

6:59

weekly review then I would jump back

7:01

into the pool of worries and

7:04

after I had soaked

7:06

enough then I would climb up. And

7:09

the funny thing is that

7:14

as anyone knows who has written things

7:16

down they are out of the mind and when

7:18

you really start to trust

7:21

the clarifying step you

7:24

know that everything that you've externalized

7:27

you will also clarify. So in

7:29

the same way I learned to trust that

7:31

the stuff that I have externalized

7:34

I will eventually get back to

7:36

and I don't think them in between.

7:40

So the mind learns to trust that

7:43

slot of worrying. I

7:46

had a half hour slot initially

7:48

that I was focused

7:51

on with

7:53

only worrying and then the rest

7:57

of the time I wasn't really delving

8:00

into that side of the

8:03

things.

8:03

Did you have these on your

8:05

Sunday maybe list or were they on

8:08

an isolated list that was where you were looking

8:10

at everything on the list is a worry? Yeah,

8:13

that was actually a list that was titled

8:16

just worries. Because

8:19

I had, well I've

8:21

broken down my Sunday maybe lists into

8:23

various Sunday

8:26

maybe lists that are more or less themed

8:28

and like

8:31

ideas and stuff to do

8:34

in

8:36

the cottage within the next 10 years. Just a parking

8:39

place for ideas. So this was

8:41

a separate list. It was easy

8:43

to focus that way.

8:48

And I'm lost for thought so you, sorry

8:51

you have to edit. Okay,

8:56

so when you have your worry list

8:58

you started out with some dedicated time that was

9:01

near when you were doing your weekly review and

9:03

that dedicated time got shorter because

9:06

you didn't need as

9:07

much worrying

9:08

time. Is that how it was working? That you were

9:10

more productive in your worrying time? Yeah,

9:13

and

9:16

also another observation at

9:18

least for me was that when things are this

9:22

is another idea that I came

9:25

across at that time was that

9:27

when things are in your head and you

9:29

mull

9:30

them over

9:31

and over they become

9:34

opposites. There's

9:36

only the good alternative and then there's

9:38

the bad alternative. But when you externalize

9:41

them you start to

9:43

see them as alternatives. Not

9:47

just opposites but there are alternatives

9:49

and there's a spectrum of stuff between those

9:51

alternatives. So

9:56

much like things that are parked on

9:58

the project list. I

10:02

myself have found it very useful

10:05

to write the

10:07

project name as

10:09

the

10:10

completed stage or what

10:15

does done mean

10:18

when this thing is completed.

10:23

And do you frame that in what

10:25

in English we would call the past tense? So

10:29

yes, might be something like the bridge is

10:32

built instead of I will build the

10:34

bridge. Yeah, yeah, I frame that exactly

10:36

like that. So everything is in

10:39

the past tense. So something that

10:41

I've already achieved or

10:44

obtained. And subconsciously

10:49

when you write that down like that,

10:51

at least for me it works like that. And

10:53

to coaching clients I've talked to

10:55

this

10:56

about they more

10:59

or less come up with the same

11:01

conclusion that you start to see

11:04

possibilities for that

11:06

project. When you regularly revisit

11:09

the project list and they are written

11:11

in the past tense you start to

11:13

see possibilities where you didn't

11:16

see them previously. So

11:19

the mind pays attention

11:21

differently when it knows that it does

11:23

not hang on to the idea but it

11:26

is free to look around and see

11:28

if there are things that might actually

11:31

move the project forward. That's

11:35

fascinating because sometimes when

11:37

people have a project they

11:39

worry too much about do I have all the next

11:41

actions there and do I know exactly what

11:44

the next actions are to the completion

11:46

of the project instead of just thinking

11:48

when I get there my mind will present

11:51

me with appropriate alternatives and yes

11:54

I don't need to know all of that now.

11:56

Yeah precisely the same

11:58

thing. I

12:01

found that this worked also with the

12:03

Wurrulist. These were more like

12:05

simmering ideas. So I

12:08

had no definite

12:12

next action that I could do. But

12:14

when I revisited them, the

12:18

ideas regularly, I started

12:20

to see things

12:22

in my everyday life which I could approach

12:25

differently. And maybe

12:28

two different, we saw that they would help

12:30

the person I was trying to help. And

12:35

in that sense, I found that there

12:37

might have been a next action embedded

12:40

in that worry. But

12:42

I was so tangled up in that worry

12:44

that I was not able to see that

12:47

next action before it had time

12:49

to simmer for

12:51

a while on that list.

12:54

Wow. So there actually was a change

12:57

in your perception based

12:59

on how you were approaching this.

13:02

Yeah.

13:03

And one

13:05

thing to add to the Wurrulist is that I

13:08

wouldn't actually use that as

13:11

something that's constant because the

13:13

negative side that I found from that

13:16

list is that you

13:18

also, when you know that you have a

13:20

parking place for things that create

13:23

anxiety, you start

13:25

to spot things that might create

13:29

anxiety. So when the

13:31

definite, I would

13:33

say, problem is solved or time

13:36

has passed on, then I

13:39

parked that list away. So there

13:41

were no big

13:44

life-changing things that I

13:47

should be viewing. And I

13:49

took the decision to park that away so

13:51

that I would not, on

13:54

purpose, pay attention to things

13:57

that did not deserve my attention

13:59

in the sense...

13:59

same scale.

14:02

Well said. Yeah. There

14:06

are always so many things we could go out

14:08

and find to worry about. It just

14:11

seems as though you're saying, no, this is what went on in

14:13

this list. The

14:15

things that specifically I found that

14:18

were grabbing my attention and

14:20

I needed to find a way to make

14:22

them let go of my attention at least most

14:25

of the week except for that very dedicated time.

14:28

Yeah. And

14:30

also, naturally, if you notice

14:33

things that you

14:36

pay attention to, I would capture them still.

14:39

So if there were things that were

14:41

in my – something

14:46

that grabbed my attention regarding,

14:48

for example, this person, I would always

14:50

write them down. I would also clarify

14:53

them so that anything that

14:55

I put on the worry list never

14:57

got there before actually really

15:00

sitting down intentionally and

15:03

trying to clarify what this really

15:05

is so that I wouldn't

15:07

just grab an idea and try to organize

15:10

that without really clarifying

15:12

what it is even

15:14

though if it's a worry.

15:17

You're not trying to do the steps out of

15:20

order, which is what people assume

15:22

is, oh, why are they separate steps? Why

15:24

can't I just start with organizing?

15:27

Precisely.

15:29

And how has this – your

15:31

experience with this changed

15:33

how you approach your coaching clients

15:35

and what you advise them to do?

15:38

Well,

15:40

this, of course, is something that

15:43

I wouldn't recommend

15:46

out of the box unless

15:49

I see that there's something – something

15:51

surfaces that I see that these

15:54

people are struggling with. And I would

15:57

actually share my own experience

15:59

with you. but if

16:02

they're open to it. Not

16:04

everyone is, I

16:07

would say that we have a culture which is very

16:10

private. So we

16:14

might not discuss things

16:16

that are very personal in nature and

16:20

especially during coaching, this is sometimes

16:22

awkward because I

16:24

see people circling

16:26

and circling and circling subjects

16:29

that might actually be beneficial

16:32

to them if we brought them up

16:34

and clarified them. But

16:38

the people who are open, then this

16:41

is definitely something that I've spoken

16:43

to from my

16:46

own personal point of view that could

16:48

this be something that would be useful in a situation

16:51

like that. Also from the perspective

16:53

that there

16:56

really are no things that are so

16:59

big that you could not write them

17:01

down and look

17:03

at them when they are externalised because when

17:05

they are externalised they are much easier

17:08

to look at than when they are

17:10

just in your mind. That's a great

17:12

point because so many people think

17:15

that this thing is too big,

17:17

it's bigger than I am, there's nothing that can be done

17:19

about it, but that's because it's still

17:22

being held in the mind as soon as it gets externalised. Oh,

17:25

it's not that big, it's six words on a piece of

17:27

paper, I at least got it down to six words

17:29

and I can look at it there. Precisely.

17:33

Yeah, that's very helpful. And

17:35

I know what you mean about trying

17:38

to get people to

17:39

give a voice to something that's a very private

17:42

worry. I'm sure

17:44

you try to create an environment

17:46

where you

17:48

make it clear you're open to hearing what they have to

17:51

say and helping them to externalise

17:53

that, but if you

17:55

push too hard they probably close

17:57

up. That

18:00

is a fine line to tread. It

18:06

comes down to how do I actually

18:09

read or how open I feel that the

18:11

client is when assessing

18:14

something of that nature. For

18:17

some people if the coach opens

18:19

up they are more or

18:21

less intimidated by it and see

18:24

it as something that we are approaching

18:26

an area where I feel uncomfortable.

18:30

That really is a very fine line. You

18:36

want to reveal enough about your own experience

18:39

with this but they say, oh we have

18:41

something in common, I can trust you,

18:43

I'll try that, but not so much that they go,

18:45

oh I feel pressure to

18:48

reveal some

18:49

deep worry that I have.

18:53

That's why it's such a nuanced

18:56

thing to do to be coaching someone this way.

19:02

Let's go into some specifics

19:04

here. You said you have some

19:07

particular advice on how you

19:09

suggest your coaching clients approach mind

19:12

sweeps. Would you say more about that?

19:15

This is something that

19:18

might actually come about

19:20

a lot more. In

19:26

a coaching situation, obviously

19:28

if it's a virtual

19:31

coaching and we are spending 8-12 weeks

19:34

together with a coaching client. During

19:37

that time I see how people

19:41

form new habits and one

19:44

thing that

19:45

people seem to

19:47

have

19:48

a problem getting their head around

19:51

is actually doing regular mind

19:54

sweeps or learning

19:56

to trust the mind sweep as an

19:59

expert. as

20:01

a separate process or something that they could

20:04

incorporate into their everyday life. Processing

20:07

your email is very self-evident because

20:09

someone else feels it for you. But

20:12

the Paper, Pat

20:15

and Pen, even though they

20:17

are so simple as tools, they are harder

20:19

to approach. So

20:23

one thing I picked up, I'm sure

20:25

that none of this is something

20:27

that I come up with myself. So

20:30

these are things that I've learned from Anna Maria

20:32

or Morten or my other

20:35

coaching colleagues in the Nordics when

20:38

we talk amongst ourselves on

20:43

best practices of how to get

20:46

people on board with, let's say, doing

20:48

regular mind sweeps. Something

20:50

that I started to suggest to my

20:52

coaching clients was that let's do a daily checklist

20:56

on the habits that you would like to

20:58

install into your daily practices. Mind

21:01

sweep, obviously, is one. So

21:03

I suggest that just

21:05

for a couple of minutes every morning before you start

21:08

to work, do a mind sweep. And

21:11

put a

21:12

timer on that. Just try to

21:14

focus a minute or two on that.

21:17

And then do another one before

21:20

you wrap up for the day,

21:22

before you leave the work to home or close

21:25

the computer lid or something like that. Just

21:27

do a dedicated mind sweep. And

21:32

don't be pressured to clarify

21:35

everything at that same time. Just capture

21:37

it. And then

21:40

maybe an hour before you go to sleep, you

21:42

do the same. Also a minute

21:44

or two and just write things down.

21:47

And the funny thing that I, the

21:50

people, this is a really

21:52

easy practice to learn when you practice

21:55

it daily. And if you keep that up for a

21:58

couple of minutes, you can do it daily. of weeks,

22:01

you start to notice very interesting things.

22:04

First of all, you get nothing. So

22:07

if you don't have a checklist or anything else

22:09

like that, you basically

22:11

get nothing out of your head. And

22:14

this is an experience that I got

22:16

from nearly every coaching client

22:18

who took up

22:20

this practice. So basically everyone.

22:26

Initially when they start, they get nothing on

22:28

paper. But when you keep this

22:30

up for a week, then things start to

22:32

pull out. And then at some point

22:34

the mind learns to trust that you

22:37

actually will write things

22:39

down that you pay attention to. So

22:41

their mind

22:44

more or less has free range to

22:46

look everywhere and

22:49

see things from a much broader

22:51

perspective. You start to capture things that

22:53

you didn't pay attention to

22:56

initially.

23:00

Like what you said in what you emailed me, you

23:02

said it gives the mind a license to pay attention.

23:05

Oh yeah, precisely that.

23:08

But

23:10

then what happens is that the mind goes,

23:14

most of the people actually describe

23:16

that the mind more or less goes

23:18

haywire. So it starts to

23:20

pay attention to stuff

23:23

that make no sense.

23:26

So initially that when you get no

23:28

ideas on paper, the next step is that

23:31

you get a huge number of ideas on

23:33

paper. And you

23:36

quite soon learn that the

23:38

vast majority of these things are something

23:41

that I should just

23:44

notice that these things are happening, but

23:47

they're not necessarily anything that I should

23:50

be doing about them.

23:51

Well, it's important you mentioned that you're

23:55

encouraging them just to do the mind sweep

23:57

and not try to start clarifying.

24:00

as they do this. Because otherwise,

24:02

people, this is one of the things that people

24:05

somehow assume is that if you do

24:07

a mind sweep, the results of the mind sweep are

24:09

your to-do list. Not

24:12

necessarily. Yeah. Yeah.

24:14

And

24:14

I think the biggest reason for that was

24:17

that when I discussed with coaching

24:22

clients, they've done the initial mind sweep

24:25

and they have

24:27

some kind of practice of doing mind sweeps.

24:30

But then they go into

24:32

the same route as when you,

24:35

let's say that when you are processing your emails,

24:38

you don't necessarily send yourself emails,

24:41

but you have a bucket of emails that you

24:43

start to clarify and organize. So

24:47

people get that transferred

24:49

into the capturing

24:53

phase with notepad and pen. So

24:55

they start to write things down

24:57

and they initially try to clarify

25:00

these things onto their list. So

25:04

before long, they will skip

25:06

the clarifying step. So

25:08

they basically do the mind sweep into

25:11

the list manager and

25:13

organize it as it is. But

25:17

this is something that especially

25:21

when they've learned to write things down for

25:23

a few weeks, then they really

25:26

get the reason why you shouldn't

25:29

clarify instantly. Because when

25:31

you return down, especially when

25:33

you get to the point where you get really

25:36

lots of ideas, but they're not necessarily

25:38

all good, you don't want to

25:41

take them all into your system. Because

25:44

you don't have such an efficiency approach

25:48

to clarify, organize,

25:51

put them on your list as you're doing

25:53

the mind sweep. Yeah, I mean, people will say, but

25:55

wouldn't that save time if I do all those things at once?

25:58

But no, it results in The other thing

26:01

people complain about, which is to-do

26:03

lists that are too long and unwieldy. Yeah,

26:07

because when you write things down,

26:09

I think you

26:12

said the efficiency factor. I

26:14

think that's something that bothers many people,

26:16

that if I

26:17

see the effort of actually writing

26:20

it down, it's worth of

26:22

me to note it somewhere and

26:24

take action upon it. But

26:26

when you do just the mind sweep

26:29

and approach that list later

26:31

on, let's say in another day, you

26:34

see that there are lots of

26:36

things there that I can just let go. Or

26:40

there someday may be items, but not

26:42

necessarily something that I really

26:45

need to do something about. Yeah,

26:47

that's

26:49

so helpful that you clarify that

26:51

with them and say, no, break it up into

26:53

the different steps. Don't read it as your to-do

26:55

list right away as soon as it

26:57

comes out of your mind. Yeah, but

27:00

the real goal actually, that

27:03

most people describe

27:05

when they take up this practice

27:07

is that once you pass the

27:10

stage where you get really

27:12

lots of ideas, of which most

27:14

aren't good, you will get to a

27:16

point where you start to really get

27:19

good ideas. When your mind

27:21

more or less learns to fine-tune itself

27:24

to pay attention to the ideas

27:26

you really wanted to pay attention,

27:29

and the mind knows that it has the safety

27:31

net of the mind sweep.

27:34

And you actually build the practice

27:36

of, if you don't capture

27:38

in the moment, you subconsciously

27:41

might see something. And then when

27:43

you sit down and do the very

27:46

intentional mind sweep, you might actually

27:48

remember that, oh, there was something which

27:51

I didn't realize at the time, but

27:54

the idea that you get might be worth

27:57

its weight in gold. So,

27:59

So you get to the point where

28:02

you really start to get some gold nuggets

28:04

out of your own head just

28:08

by writing things down.

28:09

Thanks.

28:10

And if I understand it goes

28:13

from not too many ideas,

28:15

not very much kind of a struggle

28:17

to get things out to the

28:19

floodgates have opened. I'm having too

28:21

many thoughts about everything and it's inconsequential

28:26

and then it begins to start refining and

28:29

the really good ideas start

28:31

showing up. Yeah and

28:34

I would have to say that all

28:37

the coaching clients who took

28:39

up this practice, they've

28:42

said that this is something that they would

28:44

not trade for anything.

28:47

I mean initially

28:50

after the coaching people, well

28:54

their biggest takeaway, many people

28:57

at that point say that I have a new

28:59

way of viewing my lists

29:01

or I didn't have any lists to begin with

29:03

so I have a very new system I can

29:05

look at. But

29:08

when I come back to them maybe

29:11

six months after the initial

29:13

coaching and ask how are they doing and what

29:16

are they feeling brings them most

29:19

value now. Many people actually

29:21

come to the mind sweep so that

29:25

the really simple idea

29:27

of your mind is

29:30

for having ideas and not holding them. That

29:33

really might be the gold that

29:35

they get out of the coaching. Great.

29:39

Great. Well

29:42

let's step on to your next topic

29:44

that you wrote to me which I

29:46

just have to admit this is one of the most

29:49

interesting things I've

29:51

considered in looking at GTD over the years.

29:56

You mentioned a statistic about how much

29:58

of our thoughts each day, first of all, are going how

30:00

many we have and how many

30:02

of those are negative. So would

30:05

you speak to that, please? Yeah. Yeah.

30:07

So

30:09

we probably all are aware

30:11

of the numerous studies

30:14

that show how many ideas

30:16

we get each day. So

30:19

anything from 12 to 50,000, 12,000 to 50,000 thoughts a day. And

30:25

that the vast majority of these are

30:28

actually negative.

30:31

When more or

30:33

less we are driven by the mind

30:37

who runs around freely, then it

30:39

pays attention to things that

30:42

are not necessarily positive. If you open any

30:44

news network and just let yourself

30:46

be affected by what's

30:48

happening out there, this

30:51

will fuel the way you think or

30:54

assess the world. You

30:56

will get negative thoughts and

30:58

they will fuel self-talk,

31:00

which is very real for many

31:03

people, especially if you're, let's say, you're

31:05

sitting in a car and driving for a long distance,

31:07

you're getting very agitated

31:10

discussions about

31:13

things that I should have said or something like

31:16

that. And

31:20

one thing that I came across,

31:22

I think I came across this first,

31:26

maybe 20 years ago, was

31:29

gratitude or journaling on gratitude.

31:33

But I didn't build

31:35

that as a practice for myself.

31:42

For a long time, I would say it was

31:45

the beginning of 2020 when, after the corona had exploded

31:48

more or

31:51

less or come, that I started

31:53

to pay attention to this idea

31:56

of really, really

32:00

gratitude journaling. And

32:02

this is something that, at least

32:04

for me, it was a really simple practice

32:07

or is a really simple practice.

32:10

So essentially, I list five things that I'm

32:13

grateful for that day, in the

32:16

end of every day. And

32:18

I rarely revisit them, like

32:22

any journal. So I write

32:24

stuff on the journal, but it's

32:26

really rare that I read

32:29

anything from that. But it

32:31

has value in the moment for you, but it's

32:33

not like, yeah, trying to go back and relive.

32:36

Yeah. And

32:39

with gratitude journaling,

32:41

you,

32:42

this is where

32:45

I think that the power of writing things down

32:47

really comes to mind. Because when you start

32:50

to think about your day that what are the things

32:52

that I have been grateful today, or

32:54

the things that I should be grateful

32:56

about, they might be really small

32:58

things on there are lots of days

33:01

when you feel that there aren't

33:04

that many positive things that I could be

33:06

grateful about. But when

33:08

you really start to look into it and just

33:11

keep at that practice, you

33:14

will start to see those things around

33:16

you. It's like a turning to

33:18

a whole different channel of news that

33:21

only brings you positive information

33:23

every day. Yeah. And

33:26

you start to notice these things

33:28

throughout the day that this is something that I

33:31

might actually be really grateful about. I was

33:35

I think I wrote to you something about this

33:38

that on

33:40

one day I was walking

33:42

with my dog. And I showed that

33:44

saw that the G1 was

33:46

I have no idea how to pronounce

33:49

that. That's close enough. Okay.

33:53

So the left ear was bobbing

33:57

funnily. When he was walking after

34:01

a kilometer to the left ear starts

34:03

bobbing funnily it's not upright

34:07

all the time. Only the left ear?

34:09

Only the left ear and that

34:12

was really funny so at that

34:14

point when I noticed it I

34:17

realized that I've seen this happen before that

34:20

when we would go for a walk the left ear starts

34:22

to wobble at

34:24

some point or flap

34:27

and

34:32

I

34:33

more or less realized that this is actually something

34:36

that I am grateful about and

34:38

I wrote that down and it's a small

34:41

little detail in life that I

34:44

wouldn't normally really pay any

34:46

attention to but

34:49

learning to

34:50

see those kinds

34:53

of things in your environment

34:55

they have a really funny effect

34:58

on the negative

35:01

thoughts. I don't

35:04

see myself as a person who wells in negative

35:06

thoughts all day but I do recognize

35:09

that there are days

35:12

when nothing really seems to work so

35:14

like the you're probably

35:16

familiar with the boiling frog metaphor

35:20

so I really like to bring

35:23

the boiling frog up in the when

35:26

discussing the unproductive experience

35:28

during a GTD training so

35:31

that it's hard to recognize when you are

35:34

in a boiling water when the water

35:37

was cold in the beginning

35:40

and

35:44

more or less when you have

35:47

days like that when you are the boiling fork

35:50

you see nothing positive in those days

35:53

and your mindset is more

35:55

or less negative but then you start

35:57

to write down the things that

35:59

you are grateful of, you get a different

36:02

outlook on even those days

36:04

and you start to see things

36:07

that are positive and

36:10

then more or less you

36:12

start to erase the negative thoughts

36:15

or thought patterns from that day

36:17

and you become a lot more aware

36:22

of the fact that you start

36:26

to see yourself in

36:29

the position of the boiling frog. You notice

36:31

the positive things and they actually are the

36:33

reminders that tell you that there

36:35

are things happening around me that more

36:37

or less

36:40

drag me down and

36:43

just by paying attention to that you lift

36:45

yourself up.

36:46

Yeah, that's very

36:49

inspiring because while you were talking about that,

36:51

I went out of being in the

36:53

present just enough to start thinking about my

36:56

dog and all of the little things

36:58

that are not symmetrical

37:00

that

37:01

one year is higher than the other or

37:06

one leg goes a little further out when

37:09

when walking or something like that and

37:11

then I realized maybe that's part

37:13

of the practice that I could try is look

37:15

around and say what is there here

37:17

to see not judge

37:19

is good or bad but what is here to see

37:22

that is not symmetrical

37:24

what stands out and I was reminded

37:26

of Catherine Allen sending a photo recently

37:29

of buildings in

37:31

Amsterdam that have

37:33

been there for hundreds of years and over

37:35

time they've started to

37:37

sort of adjust themselves and

37:40

she

37:40

jokingly said there are no straight lines

37:43

here because all of these buildings that were

37:45

originally built perpendicular began

37:47

to shift and they all

37:50

kind of lean against each other and accommodate but

37:52

if you look at straight on you start to see that's

37:55

not symmetrical and it's something

37:57

to appreciate. Absolutely.