1:59

Ritzia accordion spiral skirt.

2:02

I didn't get my hands on it. And every

2:04

single time you bust it out, I'm like, damn it.

2:08

It's so funny. I think I have it in every color.

2:10

It suits my body type really well.

2:13

And like where it cuts is nice. Yeah.

2:16

So anyway, I am really

2:18

excited to just dive in because I feel like I know a lot

2:20

about you. But what I found is whenever I

2:22

have friends on the podcast, I

2:24

learned so much more. And for

2:27

folks listening, they know that we like to go backwards

2:29

before we talk about present day. So I'd

2:31

love to learn a little bit more about young Arthie.

2:34

And what did you want to be when you grew up?

2:36

So I had two phases. I think as

2:39

like a young girl, I wanted to be

2:41

a teacher because that is like what's

2:43

in your face all the time. So I went to an

2:45

arts base high school and I thought

2:47

I would do something in the creative world.

2:50

And so I thought it would be something in the arts.

2:52

And then in terms of like post-secondary,

2:55

what did you go to school for?

2:57

I went to school for political

2:59

science. And I think that was because

3:01

the art thing just didn't feel right.

3:03

And now I'm like 37 and I've

3:06

now diagnosed myself and then

3:08

been clinically diagnosed for ADD. And

3:11

so I felt like I went through

3:13

so many different phases of trying to

3:15

figure out which route of academia was

3:17

right for me. And I remember just having

3:20

so many different interests but not being able to

3:22

juggle them. And I remember when I was thinking

3:24

about the arts, I was like, I don't think I can make

3:26

money off of this. I don't think this is what

3:28

I wanna do. And I had a deep

3:31

interest in current affairs, geopolitical,

3:34

like what was happening in the world. I was well

3:37

read, my dad and I used to watch the

3:39

news. And so I went to school for political science,

3:41

classic ADD fashion. I did really

3:44

well in certain things, did terrible in others. And

3:46

then I got really involved in student government.

3:48

And that's when I got my first taste of working. I

3:51

realized I'm really good at working. There's

3:53

something about being ADHD and work.

3:57

I think there's intensity. I think there's like

3:59

that.

3:59

dopamine hit that you get, I think there's

4:02

the instant gratification.

4:04

You then went on to build a really

4:07

interesting and quite fabulous career in

4:09

tech. Where did that start for you?

4:11

I realized I was liking

4:14

the social media strategy more. And

4:16

I felt like there was something happening on Twitter

4:19

and advocacy and politicians

4:21

and there was something happening in like community

4:23

on Twitter. I couldn't put my finger on it. I

4:25

was like, there's a lot of agencies that are starting.

4:27

There's a lot of small studios. There's

4:30

all these tech events. I'm like, what are these events?

4:32

Like what is happening? And so I moved back

4:34

to Toronto for that. And then I spent

4:37

the summer meeting folks trying to understand

4:39

who was building what going to a lot of events.

4:42

I went to TEDx Toronto. That's where I met

4:44

Satish, my husband and his co-founder

4:46

Vern, who had just started this very small

4:48

agency called Jet Cooper. I had only seen

4:51

it on Twitter and I was like, what, what do you guys do?

4:53

What are you building? And they pitched

4:55

me on coming in because I was looking for a job

4:57

and I almost went back to politics,

5:00

almost went back and did like some policy

5:02

work. And I ended up just meeting

5:04

them for coffee, went to their office and I was

5:07

marvelled. A world like this exists.

5:09

You walked into the Jet Cooper office back in

5:11

the early days of Toronto tech and they

5:13

had this blackboard wall where everyone signed

5:15

in with their Twitter handles and it was

5:17

like bright chalk. And there was all these like cool young

5:19

people around desks. And I was like, I thought this

5:22

only happened in like Silicon Valley. They didn't

5:24

realize that could be possible in Toronto.

5:27

And so they were like, well, we're building this agency.

5:29

Satish is doing business development. Vern is our

5:31

creative director. We don't have anyone in the middle

5:33

to do project management,

5:35

to ops, help build the business with

5:38

us. So that's how I got started in tech.

5:40

And I think that for folks listening, you and Satish

5:43

were not together when you initially joined Jet

5:45

Cooper, right? No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

5:47

So it happened over time. Over time. Yeah.

5:50

Just for folks listening, cause I know you

5:52

worked with Satish at Shopify and

5:54

a Jet Cooper. Jet Cooper was acquired

5:56

by Shopify, which is super exciting.

5:59

But Satish is still there.

5:59

still at Shopify and you're

6:02

no longer there, which we're going to get into later on. This

6:04

is off-topic and I don't want to spend too much time, but I'm

6:06

just curious. I have to ask. How

6:09

many people watch and listen to the

6:11

girl boss, Avery? This isn't for them.

6:13

This is for me. This

6:16

is purely for me. Did you know when you

6:19

initially met him?

6:20

No. I think being South Asian, being Indian,

6:22

there are very traditional career paths. So

6:25

if you're in tech, quote unquote, you only

6:27

work at a big firm like you work at Microsoft.

6:30

So for me to see a South

6:32

Asian man who he was like a year

6:34

younger than me, kind of be very

6:37

risky was just fascinating.

6:39

So I had a lot of respect for him. There's like

6:41

a stat out there about how many folks

6:43

actually find their life partner at work. It's

6:46

actually very high and it just ended up working

6:48

out for us. It wasn't easy as someone

6:50

who has always been a feminist, as someone who's

6:52

always been a leader. I was in the press and

6:55

media even way before Satish ever

6:57

was. I don't think it was like I

6:59

had to overcome my ego, but in a sense I did

7:01

where it was hard to be with

7:03

someone who was the leader. We

7:06

often joke that we have spent more time

7:08

together than most couples because we work

7:10

together and we've worked together,

7:12

worked together. I ran product

7:14

marketing at Shopify. Satish ran one

7:17

of the biggest product groups. So we

7:19

have worked together, worked together

7:20

and often been on opposite sides of

7:22

every argument. So yeah, we've just

7:24

spent a lot of time together. I've

7:27

never dated anyone that works in the same industry. So

7:29

generally speaking, the majority of the people that I've been

7:31

in relationships with have truly and honestly

7:33

not cared much about what I do on a

7:35

daily basis. And I think, I don't know, there's

7:37

a part of me that romanticizes what it would be like to

7:39

be with someone that like knows what's up. But

7:41

I'd imagine that it comes along with its own challenges

7:44

as well.

7:45

The last thing I'll say it's listen, it's amazing

7:47

because you're on a different playing

7:49

field in terms of context. You can just pick up

7:51

on a completely different level when someone's

7:53

in the same industry. I will say the hard

7:55

thing is, is both of us are very ambitious.

7:58

We both made money. we both come

8:01

to the table with very equal weight, I

8:03

think. And the other thing is, is like, we don't

8:05

really take each other's BS. And this is where

8:07

I romanticize the opposite, where I'm

8:09

assuming you're not in the same industry. You can go and complain

8:11

about people, or you can go complain about the job,

8:14

or you can go complain about things. But when the other

8:16

person knows, they're

8:18

not gonna be on your side all the time. Sure, they're like your

8:20

partner, but like we can't coddle

8:22

each other, which I think is really hard. And so

8:25

we have some rules around being like, you have to pretend

8:27

like you don't know anybody or anything in this. And

8:29

I just

8:29

need to talk to you as my partner. And so,

8:32

yeah, we're very good at that now, but I think

8:34

it's hard, because sometimes you just want your partner to be like,

8:36

oh, that sucks.

8:38

Did you ever think you were gonna build a career

8:40

in tech?

8:41

No, no. I thought

8:43

you had to be really good at math all the time.

8:46

And then tech just felt like, oh, you

8:48

have to go learn how to code very complicated

8:50

things, right? So I always saw myself

8:53

as not a part of it. And then when

8:55

I started working is when I realized,

8:57

oh, I'm a good marketer. I can actually market

8:59

anything. And then when I got into tech

9:01

a little bit more, from an agency perspective,

9:03

we were working with small businesses who were just

9:06

starting out building their product. And

9:08

at the time when I started in tech, this was like 2008, the

9:11

world was collapsing. And so there was a lot of startups,

9:14

and there was a lot of people who were

9:16

betting on mobile and betting on all these like new

9:19

pieces of technology. And I was like, oh,

9:21

as a marketer, I actually understand the intersection

9:23

of tech and culture. And that's where I found

9:26

my value. And even at Shopify, right?

9:28

There was like light bulbs going on in my brain where

9:30

I'm like, wait, no, no, no. We're on like

9:32

the precipice of like a huge cultural

9:35

revolution when it comes to retail, fashion,

9:37

tech, small business. And

9:39

I was like a fashion girl, an art nerd,

9:41

and a marketer. I was like, this

9:43

is my time. That was my time. I remember

9:45

when we got acquired and I was like, I'm gonna make

9:48

every cool brand to you Shopify. Yes.

9:51

Okay. So let's talk about Shopify

9:53

then. You ended up working in Shopify for around

9:55

eight years. Tell us about your time there.

9:58

Yeah. One caveat that I'll always...

9:59

say what I talk about that company

10:03

is when I was at Shopify, there was

10:05

nothing that I loathed more than

10:07

alumni talking about Shopify. Because

10:10

when you work in a tech company, it changes

10:13

every quarter, sometimes even faster than

10:15

that. And when you work in a high growth tech

10:17

company, everything is evolving, right?

10:20

So the work that you did, the impact

10:22

that you had, the way things worked, etc,

10:24

is not relevant today. I never wanted

10:26

to be that person. So I will never be that person. But

10:29

yeah, I can talk a little bit about how I got started.

10:31

So we went through an acquisition, because

10:34

I was not technical and not a designer,

10:36

it was very confusing what to do with

10:39

me. And Shopify was really small

10:41

at the time our CMO was in Toronto, Craig

10:43

Miller, he's the best, he was

10:45

like, you know, he spent like an afternoon

10:47

with me. And he's like, oh, there's so many things

10:49

that we can do here. And at the time, he was the CMO.

10:52

And he was building this amazing marketing

10:54

team that was just amazing

10:56

technical marketers understood growth and

10:59

how to grow

10:59

a tech business via the internet.

11:02

What we didn't have at the time was how do

11:04

we interact with people in real life? Do we

11:07

need to interact with people in real life? Which

11:09

areas of the business should we go out and market

11:12

in real life? And so I started as

11:14

like a community manager. And I very

11:16

quickly realized that the people who needed

11:18

to interact with us in real life, were

11:20

small business owners who obviously signed

11:23

up to use a platform because they knew

11:25

they needed to digitize, they knew they needed to have

11:27

an online presence, but they weren't necessarily

11:29

tech savvy. And that's also, Avery, I

11:32

think where the light bulb went off for me where

11:34

it's how do you make regular people understand

11:36

this technology? And that's what I made my

11:39

mission. I started a retail tour,

11:41

which we basically popped up across

11:43

North America in different cities, I would

11:46

bring our support staff on the road with

11:48

me, and just had a chance to like interact

11:50

with these real humans behind

11:53

the Shopify stores. And that's where people

11:56

talk a lot about like celebrities using Shopify and

11:58

big brands. But for me, like

11:59

The small businesses are the ones that really

12:02

just, oh man, I feel so strongly

12:05

for them even still. And that's maybe why

12:07

I turned into investor, but that's kind of what

12:09

I did. That was my impact. And then from there,

12:11

we're like, we need to run a conference. And

12:13

so started our first conference. And that's

12:15

where I just realized, oh, wow, I've

12:18

now learned our product because I've been on the road with

12:20

our product. And that's where the

12:22

leaders at the time were like, you should take on product marketing,

12:25

which didn't exist. So I got to build product

12:27

marketing for five years. And that's when I left.

12:29

Okay. And I'm curious, when did

12:32

you know it was time to leave Shopify?

12:35

I don't think I ever had a reason

12:37

to leave, but I remember I

12:39

was on Matt Leave and

12:42

I had Kabir. And there's so

12:44

many stats out there that say women who

12:46

are on Matt Leave are when they realize

12:48

their potential or they have the first

12:50

time to like think about things.

12:53

I just remembered that like creative art

12:55

in high school. And I was like, I need to go do something

12:57

creative. And it's not because I don't want to be

13:00

here. It's not because I don't want to be doing marketing

13:02

and tech. I actually really believe in the

13:04

mission. But for me, there was something that

13:06

was just calling me that was like, you need to

13:09

go do other things, whether it's start

13:11

your own businesses, or just like

13:14

go have a different type of impact. And

13:16

I don't talk about this a lot, because I think

13:18

a lot of people judge when it comes to privilege. But

13:21

I actually saw a coach, an executive

13:23

coach, I love executive coaching, I've always had a coach

13:25

at Shopify, a number of different people, I've had

13:27

coaches outside. And I met with someone

13:29

who is essentially like a wealth psychologist,

13:32

which she works with people who have come

13:34

into money.

13:35

And so she works with a lot of people who

13:37

have had a windfall from tech, whether their

13:39

company's gone public, or they were employees

13:42

early at Amazon or other companies,

13:44

or folks that have come into wealth through like inheritance.

13:47

And so I started speaking with her, I think because our

13:49

money managers were like, both of you have no

13:51

idea what you're doing. And I met

13:54

with her and I remember, you know, I was on the cusp of being

13:56

like, do I want to stay? Do I want to do my own thing?

13:58

I really like my job. She said something

14:00

to me that was profound.

14:02

She said, a lot of people spend

14:04

time at their job and

14:06

that's where they find meaning, but then

14:09

they find that they accumulate stuff

14:12

or they like rage and have

14:14

like different experiences, right, they're like, oh, I'm

14:16

gonna go on vacation or I'm just like working

14:18

towards a vacation, I'm working towards like

14:21

buying the next thing.

14:22

And she's like, and then all of a sudden you look around and you

14:24

have a lot of stuff around you and sure you've gone

14:27

to some fancy places, but is that

14:29

really what you would have done

14:31

if you unlocked whatever amount

14:34

of money you wanted to make before you go and

14:36

do something else? And that

14:38

was the moment where I started to think about what, wait,

14:40

what, what, what am I doing? I've

14:43

always wanted to have an impact in like philanthropy

14:45

and other things and I'm like, but I actually have an opportunity

14:48

to do it at an early age in

14:50

life, which again is very rare and unheard

14:52

of. So why don't I just go do

14:54

that now? And that's when I kind of knew

14:57

I wanted to leave. And then I stayed for another year

14:59

and then I left.

15:00

I love this. And you and I have talked about it privately

15:03

before around like this wealth psychologist.

15:06

I don't know exactly what you came

15:08

into, but I'd imagine it was quite a lot.

15:10

And with all that comes a whole lot of pressure.

15:13

I mean, you know, we were talking about TikTok earlier,

15:16

Avery, I've heard on TikTok, you're not supposed to talk

15:18

about these things and you know, I'm not supposed to talk

15:20

about wealth and quiet luxury, blah,

15:22

blah, blah. So sometimes I get uncomfortable where

15:24

I'm like, ooh, am I showing too much? I

15:26

don't know.

15:30

Is becoming a new manager really that hard?

15:33

Is gossiping at work good for you? Is it

15:35

okay to take meetings from a salon chair in

15:37

the middle of the workday? These are the kinds

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That's girlboss.com slash newsletter.

16:02

You're

16:10

listening to my conversation with Arthie. Next

16:12

up, Arthie shares a story behind her latest business

16:14

venture, Glee. Let's get back into it.

16:17

For folks that are listening, like, what do

16:19

you think contributed to the growth you

16:21

experienced as Shopify? You entered in

16:24

as a community manager, then

16:27

grew into like leading up product

16:29

marketing, which is huge. What

16:31

contributed to that growth?

16:33

A lot of really great people,

16:35

really good people, really good teams.

16:38

I think companies that grow in scale

16:40

like that, it's not by accident. You know,

16:42

people say it's luck, it's timing. Sure, there's like

16:44

a small percentage of that, but it's

16:46

a lot of people working really hard on

16:49

a lot of hard things and collectively.

16:52

And so it just makes you better. And

16:54

especially in the early days.

16:56

And looking back at your time at Shopify,

16:58

I have two main questions. What would

17:01

you do again? And what would

17:03

you not do again?

17:05

I think I would keep taking the

17:07

risks that I did, right? Which is

17:09

when you're in a company

17:12

that's trying to get to the

17:14

next level, like, especially for a lot of people who are listening,

17:16

who are building their own brands or startups. I

17:18

always punched above our weight class and

17:20

my weight class all the time. And I still

17:23

do that. I feel like I'm not yet

17:25

there, but I'm always like, okay, I

17:27

have to like

17:28

be there or wherever I think there

17:31

is. And so I think constantly punching above

17:33

my weight class. What I would not do again

17:35

is things that you do as

17:37

someone who's learning how to manage people, right? And

17:39

I think there's a huge difference between a leader and a manager.

17:42

I think I'm a great leader. I'm inspiring.

17:44

I'm charismatic. I have a vision. But

17:46

I think to be able to

17:49

translate that into creating

17:52

teams that can work really well is really

17:54

hard. And I think because

17:56

I'm so hard on myself, I'm okay with burning

17:58

myself

17:58

out all the time. I'm like, okay,

18:01

let's go.

18:02

We're on the Girl Boss podcast. I accidentally girl

18:04

boss everything in my life. And

18:06

that's just like who I am. I'm like, oh crap, I

18:08

accidentally girl boss this. But I think

18:10

I did that at the expense of people. And

18:13

so, you know, you work in a high growth

18:15

tech company, you work in a startup, you kind

18:17

of know that going into it. But

18:20

because I'm so hard on myself, I

18:22

think accidentally people may have thought

18:24

I was being hard on them, but no, I'm hard on

18:26

the thing. And so I don't know. I think

18:28

I would manage people differently. I think I would

18:30

also communicate more, communicate

18:32

the why more.

18:34

Yeah, totally feel that. And one

18:37

thing that I love about this new evolution

18:39

of Girl Boss is that we're not falling into

18:41

the traps of these old ways

18:43

of thinking and legacy ways of working,

18:46

but we're also like, we're in the nuanced

18:48

gray area.

18:49

Yeah, I get really triggered

18:52

when people talk about imposter syndrome

18:54

almost in the reverse way. So

18:56

I experience imposter syndrome and why someone

18:59

is experiencing imposter syndrome, maybe

19:01

because you're at the beginning of something.

19:04

Isn't it amazing that I can put

19:06

myself in situations constantly

19:08

that I am a lifelong learner, that

19:11

I am at the beginning of something again,

19:13

and it's humbling and it's scary. And

19:15

so I just now lean into imposter

19:17

syndrome where I'm like, why am I feeling this way?

19:20

Is somebody making me feel this way? Is

19:22

the

19:23

industry making me feel this way? Is the

19:25

room making me feel this way? Or am I just uncomfortable

19:27

because I don't know anything anymore? I'm not the smartest

19:29

person in the room. No, I do feel imposter syndrome.

19:32

Sure, I've invested in a lot of companies. I'm

19:34

an active angel investor. Somehow

19:36

I was named Canada's Angel Investor of the Year,

19:38

but I am still learning what it means to invest

19:40

in companies. It's only been a couple of years. I

19:43

do feel imposter syndrome. It's

19:45

okay. Yeah, so I just lean into

19:47

it.

19:49

I love that. So I know that

19:51

you recently started Glee, and not

19:53

so recently actually, and it's a Gee-based

19:56

skincare brand with your brother Varun and

19:58

your sister Deepika.

19:59

who I love, both of them. What inspired

20:02

you to start a Director Consumer Skin

20:04

Care brand?

20:05

It's a funny story. So just going back to Shopify,

20:08

when you are surrounded by so many

20:10

people starting such cool businesses and

20:12

you have the tools to go do it, I think

20:15

every Shopify employee must have so

20:17

many ideas. It's kind of like how, I don't

20:19

know if people still do this, but I still buy

20:21

domain names all the time. I'm sure now it's like

20:23

people are saying TikTok user names and IG

20:26

user names. But I feel like I've always had

20:28

so many ideas. I always have something on the go.

20:30

And I never followed through

20:33

with any of them. And even as an investor, right?

20:35

Like I will invest in brands that

20:37

I really care about, founders that I'm really excited

20:39

about. But maybe at Max,

20:41

I'll come in as like an advisor.

20:44

I'm not gonna like jump on board more than that. But

20:46

a couple of years ago, my brother was

20:48

like, you know, he's the youngest of four. I'm

20:51

the eldest, we're nine years apart.

20:53

And he's kind of the entrepreneur of the family,

20:56

right? Like we're an entrepreneurial family to begin

20:58

with, but he is just that kid

21:00

that always had a summer business,

21:02

like paving driveways, like landscaping.

21:05

Like, you know that kid that you're like, oh, you're like a business

21:07

person selling sneakers, like

21:10

flipping hats, you name it, right? This

21:12

kid is like the entrepreneur. Yeah, I love

21:14

that. And so a couple of years ago,

21:16

my sister and I, because all we do is like

21:19

shop skincare, we bought a couple

21:21

of products that were just pure coconut oil. And

21:23

he was like, this is just coconut oil. You

21:25

bought this from Sephora and we're like, yeah. I

21:28

don't know. Is it just coconut oil? And he was like,

21:30

oh my goodness. And so he's an engineer and he was

21:32

like, hmm, interesting. And then

21:34

it was winter. And my mom, as usual,

21:37

is like, put ghee on your lips. And him and I both

21:39

get very chapped lips, very, very

21:41

chapped lips. Like it gets red, it's like not attractive.

21:44

And so he's always been the kid who has like chopsticks

21:46

with him, stealing our blistex, et cetera.

21:48

And so my mom's always like, put ghee on it, put ghee on

21:51

it, put ghee on it. And for those of you who don't know, ghee

21:53

is a clarified butter. It's in every South

21:55

Asian and even beyond then, their pantry.

21:58

And so as a South Asian, growing

22:00

up, you don't necessarily want to put ghee on

22:02

your lips because it smells like food. And we have a lot

22:05

of baggage, you know, where people used to make fun of us for

22:07

having turmeric in our food. And now it's like everywhere.

22:09

So he's like, I would never do that. But, you know, you

22:11

get older. A couple of years ago, it was

22:14

winter. His

22:14

lips got really chapped and he tried. And he's like,

22:17

Whoa, this is interesting. Because

22:19

it's not just like a fat. There's a lot of

22:22

benefits to it. It's infused with vitamins. It

22:24

has omega three fatty acids. That's kind of like

22:27

the fat that it is. And so he was like, this

22:29

is interesting because it almost feels like it's like soothing

22:32

it, not just hydrating it. And he was like,

22:34

what if we put this in a lip balm? And

22:36

I was like, oh, ghee

22:39

on the go.

22:40

Six months later, he comes to me with a lip balm. And

22:42

he like made the logo on the Shopify like logo

22:44

generator. And like it's in this like cute little lip

22:46

balm case. And I'm like, what is this? And

22:48

so my mom, my sister, his girlfriend,

22:51

we're all like using that. We're like, whoa,

22:53

this is really good. And

22:55

turns out he went through like 30 different formulas. For

22:58

it, he ended up figuring out how to

23:00

put ghee in a stable lip balm.

23:03

And so what we did was we kind of launched

23:06

it almost like a tech product, like very

23:08

MVP to our community. Didn't

23:10

think anyone would buy it. We had like a store

23:12

open, but just to test, like we weren't driving traffic

23:14

to it just to start seeding it, right? Like

23:17

we started seeding it to like makeup artists and South

23:19

Asian influencers and then amazing people

23:21

like you supported it and started using

23:23

it. And we were like, oh, this might be an actual

23:26

business. Yeah. I

23:28

can't remember how many I bought, but I bought like 50

23:30

units and I gave them to all of our clients. Yeah.

23:33

Yeah. I remember it

23:35

was in like your client box.

23:36

And so I consider all of that our

23:38

soft launch because right after

23:41

we launched it, when we started to get a little bit of momentum

23:43

and we knew kind of who our demographic was. Like

23:45

a lot of moms were buying it because it was natural.

23:48

They wanted to use ghee. They were excited about it. Obviously

23:51

ghee is now growing in popularity. Like

23:53

you can buy it at Whole Foods in our one now and it's

23:55

having a moment. People use it in their bullet

23:57

coffee now, etc. So we wanted to like. capitalize

24:00

on all of a sudden people knowing about ghee. And

24:03

then there was another demographic, which

24:05

I love to call the new brown girl, which is

24:07

the young brown girl who does not

24:09

have baggage of bringing Indian food

24:11

to school. It's kind of like my three and a half

24:14

year old who dressed up for the WALL-E, cause he wanted

24:16

to. And I was like, I can't imagine wearing

24:18

an Indian suit to school. And I

24:20

find them fascinating. And they were like, oh my God, I love this.

24:22

I can't wait to like share it with my mom. And so that's

24:24

when we kind of pause. Like we still have the lip-op

24:27

available, but we decided to go back to the drawing board.

24:29

I'm like, who are we as a brand? What

24:31

kind of products do we want to make? What is

24:33

ghee? How do we want to build this company? And so

24:35

we've been doing that behind the scenes and we're just getting ready

24:38

to like launch our brand for real.

24:40

So we're launching May 17th and

24:42

we're launching a bunch of new products. So we

24:44

have our lip-bom, which I know everybody loves. It's

24:46

like really smooth, really like buttery, but

24:49

we've actually changed the formula because

24:51

we wanted it to be shelf stable for a long time.

24:53

And so we have a new set of lip-bombs coming out.

24:56

And then we have a lip mask, which is closest to the

24:58

lip-bom that I feel like our original

24:59

user base loves. And honestly

25:02

it is the best lip mask on the market. And

25:04

then we're coming out with a lip scrub. So we have

25:06

like a complete lip line coming out. And then

25:09

yeah, like we plan to differentiate ourselves

25:11

with Glee by not

25:13

being full face. Neither of us wanted

25:16

to be skincare founders. We're not out

25:18

here to like go compete with every skincare

25:20

brand. We wanted to build an intentional

25:22

business around how can you pair

25:25

the efficacy of ghee to

25:27

your ailments? So that's

25:30

what we're doing. We're actually for real

25:32

launching our brand soon.

25:33

Yes, I can't wait. I actually checked out the website

25:36

earlier this week and I see like a new Glee

25:38

coming soon. So I'm pumped for that. And

25:40

one thing that I found really refreshing about

25:43

Glee is that it's for the South Asian

25:45

community by the South Asian community. And I

25:47

think that that's something that's quite beautiful and

25:49

something that I'm quite excited to get behind outside

25:51

of being a huge fan of yours. And obviously

25:53

I've used the product, it's amazing. So

25:56

I really wanna talk to you about your other venture.

25:58

I'm sure a lot of people are wanting.

25:59

to listen right now to learn a little bit more about

26:02

your experience as an investor, because

26:04

some people like me want to get there

26:06

one day. There's probably others that want to

26:08

perhaps maybe have you invest in their business.

26:11

And then there's probably others that are like, what the hell is investing?

26:14

How does it all work? So you are the co-founder

26:16

of Backbone Angels, an adventure capital

26:19

collective that you started with an all

26:21

women team of 10 early

26:23

Shopify employees with a mission to fund the

26:25

historically underfunded and marginalized

26:27

genders and folks. What I love about

26:30

it is you've actually invested in over 50 companies.

26:33

I have personally. Yeah. Yes. And the collective

26:36

has invested more than 3 million in those

26:38

businesses over time. I really want

26:41

to ask this question first, like what's more important

26:43

investing in the idea or the founder?

26:45

I

26:46

think what's more important, and I

26:49

hope everyone is learning this in this like

26:51

market downturn, that is, it's way

26:53

more important to invest in the founder and

26:56

the person. Because if you're

26:58

coming in at an early stage and you're investing

27:00

at such an early stage, their product, their

27:02

idea, their business, who it's

27:05

for is going to evolve and it better

27:07

evolve for them to like survive.

27:09

Right? Like we're seeing so many companies right now

27:12

in, I'm not going to use the word, but in this

27:14

market downturn that are completely

27:16

pivoting into something else. And so as

27:19

an investor,

27:20

you invested in the person, I think,

27:22

point blank. And I think that's the hardest part

27:25

about angel investing. It's different from being

27:27

a venture capital firm with a lot of analysts

27:29

and a huge team and people doing a lot of due

27:32

diligence. I think as an angel investor, you're always

27:34

betting on that person.

27:35

Yeah. And how do you know? Yeah,

27:38

I think Backbone Angels is a

27:40

collective of 10 women, 10 of

27:42

us that were early stage at a company

27:44

like Shopify. And so all of us had to

27:46

scale very quickly. We had to scale ourselves,

27:49

our own ability to do things, our teams

27:52

at such a rapid pace. And that's

27:54

why I think early tech employees make really

27:56

great angel investors because we're operators and

27:59

we've had

27:59

to sit on hiring boards, hiring

28:02

a lot of people, going through moments

28:04

where we're making mistakes in hiring, moments where

28:06

you messed up the interview process,

28:09

moments where you would have done

28:11

things differently. And we just did that at such

28:13

a rapid pace that I think that's what makes us good

28:15

investors. I mean, time will tell. Angel investing

28:18

is very tricky, but I think it helps

28:20

us understand your capabilities,

28:23

but also, which I think is the most important thing

28:25

when you're investing in a company

28:27

that's ready for our investment is are they able

28:29

to build a team?

28:29

Are they going to be able to galvanize

28:33

and create enough momentum around their idea,

28:35

whatever that idea may turn into? And I

28:37

think you get that from hiring a lot of people.

28:40

And for folks listening who want to raise

28:42

money, what have founders done

28:44

to get your trust and your dollars?

28:47

So what I'll speak personally

28:49

is what people do is even if they

28:52

get a no from me or an ignore

28:54

or they're not on my radar, they'll start adding me

28:56

to their investor updates. And those are like

28:59

the smartest founders where I'm like, oh,

29:01

you get it. You're putting me on your

29:04

investor updates. You know, based on

29:06

my other portfolio, I like companies

29:08

like yours. I probably am interested

29:10

in one day, maybe it's just like wrong

29:12

timing, or maybe even if I'm not writing

29:15

a check, maybe one day I'll open up my inbox,

29:17

happen to read an investor update. There's like

29:19

a call to action or there's like, oh, I'm hiring

29:21

a marketing person, etc. Maybe I'll have

29:24

the right person for you, or maybe I'll have the right intro.

29:27

And I think that's something that founders do really well

29:29

where all of a sudden I'm on an investor update.

29:31

I'm like, good move, good move. If

29:33

you've gotten a rejection from somebody or you're not

29:35

on their radar, I think it shows a lot of humility,

29:38

but also just like long term

29:40

thinking where I'm like, okay, great, I

29:42

may be able to help you in the future, you may be

29:45

able to help me in the future, why would you just

29:47

take a rejection as like, I'm

29:49

never going to speak to this person again.

29:51

What advice do you have for folks that are wanting

29:53

to pursue their own venture

29:56

or start their own business, or perhaps

29:58

just do something different, but they're

31:59

accomplishments, what do you believe

32:02

it means to be successful? Are

32:04

you free? I think freedom

32:07

is success. I think being able

32:09

to choose what you want to do, that's

32:12

when I think you're successful. I think if you're

32:14

having like a really positive impact on

32:16

the people around you, that's success. And I

32:18

think that's completely different than what I would have said like five

32:20

years ago, hell even like two years ago.

32:22

And based on your definition of success,

32:25

do you believe that you're successful today?

32:27

I'm going to say no. I don't think I

32:30

am successful yet because I think I'm

32:32

just always entering new industries. And

32:34

so if I'm going to keep going to different industries,

32:37

I'm going to be starting at that like entering

32:39

the new box level zero. And so I

32:41

don't know, I think success is relative and I don't

32:44

know if I'm successful yet.

32:46

I feel like people think success is

32:49

being verified on Twitter, Instagram

32:52

or being well known. And I'm like,

32:54

oh, that stuff is not, not

32:57

success. Interesting. I feel

32:59

like everyone goes through waves. Before

33:01

we stop, I would love to just do a very

33:03

quick in and out, very quickly

33:05

in or out side gigs,

33:08

in day in the life, in

33:11

big tech vlogs, out,

33:15

talking about money in please,

33:18

because it's going to mess us up, especially as

33:20

women. We don't talk about money. Yeah,

33:23

totally. Checking emails the moment

33:25

you wake up in the morning. Oh,

33:27

out. But I'm also terrible on email. So I

33:30

don't know. I'm bad on email too. TikTok,

33:33

in or out? Oh, I don't know. I

33:37

had to ask the marketer this I had to. I think

33:41

obviously in, I don't know, I 37

33:43

years old, I realized everything I

33:45

was going through was actually ADHD. And I went to

33:48

my doctor and I was like, okay, I don't

33:50

know if it's TikTok or if I actually have ADHD,

33:52

but I think I do. And then I got formally diagnosed.

33:54

So there's some good that's come from it.

33:57

Okay. And remote work.

34:00

Oh, as a mom, I get vilified when

34:02

I say out because obviously

34:05

it's been amazing to be able to spend so

34:07

much time with my kid, but I don't

34:09

know. I'm gonna sound like a dinosaur,

34:12

but there's nothing like building with a team

34:14

together and choose when to do it.

34:16

Yeah, okay. Well, with that,

34:18

is there anything you'd like to leave listeners with before

34:21

we wrap up? I think that there's a lot of

34:23

women who are listening, who want

34:25

to start a business, who are entrepreneurs and founders

34:27

themselves. And I think if you're

34:29

onto something that's scalable and

34:32

it's ready for outside money,

34:35

go and

34:35

get it. Because there's

34:37

a lot of people out there raising capital

34:40

that barely have an idea on paper.

34:42

Put yourself out there and don't dismiss yourself

34:45

until others can. Like, why are you gonna do it to yourself?

34:47

Yeah, I love that advice. Awesome.

34:50

Well, Arthi, thank you so much for taking this time to chat.

34:52

You and I will continue this conversation in the DMs.

34:55

Bye, Avery.

35:00

And

35:00

that's a wrap on my conversation with Arthi. I'm

35:02

actually friends with Arthi and I learned so much about

35:04

her journey today. I'm really hoping you got as much

35:07

out of the conversation as I did. Come

35:09

back next week for another episode of Girl Boss Radio.

35:11

And in the meantime, please rate this episode

35:13

or leave a comment to let us know what you thought. It really

35:16

makes my day to read them. As always, this

35:18

podcast is produced by Liz Goober, Victoria

35:20

Christie, and edited by Diego Domine.

35:23

Until next time, keep blooming.

35:27

Bye.