0:01

Hey, it's Johanna Maska, the host of

0:03

Press Advance, and I can tell you I've worked

0:05

in politics long enough to know there's good and

0:08

bad on both sides of the aisle. I

0:10

started working with President Obama at the

0:13

beginning of the Iowa caucuses, and our

0:15

campaign motto was respect and power include.

0:18

We've lost that in our politics. We need to

0:20

bring it back. And that's

0:22

why I wanted to do this podcast,

0:24

Press Advance, to tackle the issues that

0:26

we care about with humor and grace

0:28

and through a bipartisan lens to find

0:30

out where we can find common

0:33

ground and make progress in

0:35

today's toxic political environment. Please

0:38

join us on Press Advance, available wherever you

0:40

get your podcasts. Hi,

0:46

I'm Ravi Agrawal. This is

0:48

Global Reboot. Welcome

0:54

to the show. World

0:56

leaders are in Dubai this week

0:58

for COP28, the UN's annual climate

1:00

change conference. And one issue

1:02

that might come up is protecting

1:04

our oceans. Oceans

1:06

are easy to ignore. They're so vast

1:09

that it seems it's always just going to be there.

1:12

But climate change and man-made

1:14

pollution is harming our oceans.

1:17

And that in turn could have a range

1:19

of big ripple effects on our lives. Oceans,

1:22

after all, supply 50% of the oxygen

1:24

we breathe. How

1:27

do we do more to protect

1:29

these large and so essential water

1:31

bodies? Well, Monica

1:34

Medina is the United States'

1:36

first ever diplomat for biodiversity.

1:39

She now serves as president

1:41

and CEO of the Wildlife

1:43

Conservation Society. She joined

1:46

me to discuss how to preserve and

1:48

protect our oceans and also

1:50

shared some of the important progress that's been

1:52

made so far. Global

1:55

Reboot is a partnership between Foreign Policy

1:57

and the Doha Forum. This

2:00

is episode 6 of season 3. Let's

2:02

dive in. Monica

2:09

Medina, welcome to Global Reboot. Thank

2:12

you so much. I really appreciate

2:14

you having me to talk about this important

2:16

issue. Oceans matter to everyone,

2:18

so it's great to be here. Indeed, and we

2:21

appreciate you for making time for us.

2:24

So I thought we should start, as we

2:26

often do on Global Reboot, with

2:28

the scope of the problem, what challenges

2:31

are our oceans currently facing? The

2:33

challenges are immense. I know people

2:36

think the oceans are huge and

2:38

they are too big to fail,

2:40

but really they're too big to

2:42

ignore. We have terrible problems now

2:45

with pollution, with overfishing, and with

2:47

the climate impact on the ocean.

2:49

I think many people around the

2:52

world have seen how ocean temperatures

2:54

are heating up and in some

2:56

places have exceeded records this past

2:58

summer in the northern hemisphere. And

3:00

we see it happening again now, beginning

3:02

in the southern hemisphere. There are

3:05

big ocean stressors that

3:07

are really concerning to scientists, and

3:09

I think now increasingly to policymakers

3:11

as we see those impacts happening

3:14

to people all over the world,

3:16

whether it's storms or sea

3:18

level rise, or even the way that

3:20

our oceans are impacting droughts in some

3:23

parts of the world. So it's a

3:25

big concern. And

3:27

how much of this do you think

3:29

can be attributed to climate change?

3:31

How much of it is because

3:33

of pollution and manmade

3:35

waste that often sort of seeps

3:38

into our waters? Well, gosh,

3:40

I think no one's really tried to

3:42

quantify how much each thing

3:44

is a problem. What we can say

3:46

is that 90% of the

3:48

excess carbon in the atmosphere gets

3:51

absorbed by the ocean, which

3:53

causes that temperature rise. We

3:56

also have a lot of direct pollution

3:58

into the ocean, whether it's dumping

4:00

from ships or there's

4:03

all kinds of other plastic pollution that

4:05

washes into the ocean from rivers in

4:07

some of the most populous areas of the world.

4:10

And then on top of that, nets

4:12

from fishing, people think, oh how

4:14

could that possibly have a big impact? But

4:17

there's a tremendous amount of plastic in the

4:19

ocean and much of it comes from fishing

4:21

nets. And so we know that there are

4:23

many many things that are impacting the ocean.

4:26

And finally I mentioned before fishing, we have

4:28

seen a rise in fishing around the

4:30

world, particularly distant water, fishing

4:32

fleets, plying the oceans, going deeper

4:34

and deeper into the oceans to

4:36

reach the food that's there. We

4:39

know that that's a part of

4:41

the food insecurity problem around the

4:43

world. People need fish in order

4:45

to get protein in so many

4:47

parts of the world. So whether

4:49

it's coastal overfishing because we haven't

4:51

managed it particularly well in coastal

4:54

areas and we see those populations

4:56

increasing or whether it's big

4:58

countries like China needing to feed

5:00

their populations and going farther and farther

5:02

away from home to get enough fish

5:05

to bring back to feed people. So

5:07

there's a lot of stress on the

5:09

ocean right now. So

5:12

I have to ask you something that might

5:14

seem to you to be a silly question

5:17

but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Why

5:19

do the oceans matter so much? Why are

5:22

they so important to protecting our

5:24

planet's biodiversity? And I ask this

5:27

question because there's so much ocean

5:29

on our planet and

5:31

it can seem so far away

5:33

from where all of us are

5:35

in cities or further inland in

5:37

countries around the world. The

5:39

oceans matter because they are crucial

5:42

for our climate system. They provide

5:44

oxygen. Every other breath we take

5:46

is due to the fact that

5:49

we are a blue planet. The

5:51

oceans are all connected and so

5:54

people all over the globe are feeling

5:57

the impacts of the ocean even in very

5:59

landlocked places. So it is

6:02

a global system and 70%

6:06

of the planet is ocean and

6:08

most of that lies outside

6:10

of national jurisdictions. So

6:12

we have laws that cover parts

6:14

of the ocean that are close to shore within

6:16

200 miles. But

6:19

beyond that, 50% of

6:21

the planet belongs to no country.

6:23

And so that makes it also

6:26

a challenge to govern. And

6:28

we know that where there isn't governance, resources

6:31

tend to get used or misused.

6:33

And so there's that race to

6:35

the bottom. And it does,

6:37

I think, impact

6:40

everyone. Clearly the

6:42

island nations, they

6:44

call themselves big ocean states, bosses,

6:47

because for them, their ocean territory

6:49

is actually bigger than their land.

6:51

So it varies from

6:53

country to country, how much coastline you

6:56

have, how much ocean territory you have,

6:58

whether it's a direct play

7:00

in your economy. But for most

7:02

countries, the ocean is

7:04

a critical piece of their

7:06

economy and their

7:08

environmental stability, their climate systems.

7:12

Now, you've worked in the US government and

7:14

you're out of government now, but you still

7:16

very much work in this space. Is

7:18

it your sense that there is now

7:21

widespread agreement on the things that you're

7:23

describing, that climate change

7:25

is impacting our environment, but specifically in

7:27

this case, our oceans? Do

7:30

policymakers and politicians agree on

7:33

these basic facts? Is

7:35

the United States an outlier in that respect

7:37

at all? Policymakers

7:40

and governments around the world do

7:43

basically agree on that fact.

7:46

There have been several developments in

7:48

the last year that prove

7:51

this. First, at the

7:53

Convention on Biological Diversity Conference of

7:55

the Parties meeting, there is a

7:58

treaty that deals with... biodiversity

8:00

all around the world. And

8:03

last December there was an agreement

8:05

adopted by Consensus that we need

8:07

to, as a globe, every country

8:09

across the world needs to work

8:12

to conserve 30% of their land

8:14

and ocean spaces by 2030. And we

8:16

need to conserve those areas beyond

8:22

national jurisdiction in the ocean.

8:25

So that agreement explicitly recognized

8:27

the need to conserve ocean

8:30

space both within national

8:32

jurisdiction and outside it. That's

8:35

a huge step forward.

8:38

Then four months later

8:40

at the United Nations the

8:42

world again came together and

8:44

by Consensus agreed that we

8:46

must be able to conserve

8:48

areas outside of national jurisdiction.

8:51

And in order to get

8:53

to that 30% so we adopted a

8:56

whole new treaty just to talk about

8:58

how to conserve those areas outside of

9:00

national jurisdiction. So I think there is

9:04

indeed a consensus globally

9:06

that oceans matter to

9:08

everyone on the planet. Wow.

9:11

Well, at least there's that. I'm curious how

9:13

big world events affect an issue like protecting

9:15

our oceans. So I was thinking

9:18

about the war in Ukraine which started

9:20

last year. How

9:22

did that, for example, impact the

9:24

way in which global

9:26

efforts towards protecting

9:30

our oceans and conducting policy

9:32

making towards that, was

9:34

that adversely impacted? It's

9:37

interesting. The war began at almost

9:40

the exact moment when the world

9:43

had another big environmental meeting around

9:45

the UN Environment Program. We

9:48

agreed at that meeting to

9:50

begin to negotiate a

9:52

global agreement to end plastic

9:54

pollution. There were many countries,

9:56

including myself as the US

9:59

government representative. is there at

10:01

the time. We spoke up

10:03

against the war and against

10:05

Russia's aggression and heinous

10:07

acts in Ukraine. At

10:10

the same time, we did

10:12

manage to get consensus to

10:14

go ahead and begin negotiating

10:16

this global agreement to end

10:18

plastic pollution. Much of the

10:20

genesis for that agreement was

10:23

the public's disdain for

10:26

photos that they had seen of

10:29

marine wildlife washing up on

10:31

shore, whales for example, and

10:34

their bellies were full of

10:36

plastic they washed up

10:39

as sort of dead carcasses

10:41

and that caused an outcry

10:43

and led to this agreement

10:45

to be negotiated and it's still in

10:47

the midst of being negotiated now. But

10:50

I will tell you one place in

10:52

the ocean where the problem with the

10:54

war is really causing tremendous difficulty is

10:57

in the governance of Antarctica.

11:00

Antarctica is a continent but it

11:02

has no government. It's run by

11:04

a group of governments

11:06

who've come together around a treaty.

11:09

There is this effort among the

11:11

countries that govern Antarctica to

11:13

try to conserve a new

11:15

protected area in the Antarctic

11:18

and that would be a tremendous thing for

11:20

the world to do, again to try to

11:23

get to that 30% number

11:25

in order to protect this very fragile part

11:27

of the world, Antarctica, in order

11:30

to protect some of the most vulnerable

11:32

species to climate change like penguins. The

11:35

Ukraine government is actually the chair

11:37

of that group of countries for

11:39

the next two years. Russia

11:41

is also a member and is

11:43

blocking that consensus. China

11:45

is blocking it as well, which is a shame

11:48

and we hope that through continued

11:50

work and continued global

11:52

consensus around the need to create

11:55

these protected areas in the ocean,

11:58

we will get Russia as a whole. and China

12:00

to drop their objections. But right now, that's

12:02

one place where it's really

12:05

a problem. Gosh, it

12:07

seems like those divisions that you're

12:09

describing on ocean policy, they're

12:11

mirrored so much in so many

12:13

other global issues. Now,

12:15

Monica, this is Global Reboot, and a

12:17

big part of each show is about

12:19

trying to figure out how to fix

12:21

big international problems. And we've been discussing

12:24

the scope and scale of problems so far.

12:26

So I thought I'd move us towards some

12:29

of the solutions I know you think about all the

12:31

time. And I thought I'd

12:33

start by asking you about the High

12:35

Seas Treaty. Tell me a bit more about

12:38

what that is and why it's so

12:40

important. It's so important

12:42

because, as I said, it governs

12:44

those areas of the planet that

12:47

are ungovernable otherwise.

12:50

There is a set of UN agreements

12:52

on fishing in the high seas,

12:55

and those work to some

12:57

extent. And to be clear, the high

12:59

seas, these are parts of the

13:01

ocean that are 200 kilometers away from

13:04

coastline. Is that right? Yes, 200

13:07

miles away from

13:09

coastlines. Yes. Sometimes it's

13:11

smaller depending on international

13:13

boundaries between two countries.

13:16

It's a part of the Law of

13:18

the Sea Convention overall, which is the

13:20

big treaty that governs the ocean. And

13:23

the US is actually not a member

13:25

of that agreement, and that's too bad

13:27

because I think it leaves us in

13:29

a place where we can't have a

13:32

say in many of the most important

13:34

issues that are happening in the ocean

13:36

and some of the most important issues

13:39

globally in foreign policy because we are

13:41

not a member and we have to

13:43

sort of sit back and we are

13:45

just an observer in that

13:47

agreement. And we agree to abide by

13:49

all the rules, but we are not

13:51

a member. We haven't ratified that treaty.

13:55

Why is that? Because the

13:57

high seas technically constitute a

13:59

real really big percentage of the

14:01

world's oceans, right? Yes. The

14:04

argument has been that the US does

14:06

not want to give up sovereignty over

14:10

its own ability to do

14:13

things in the high seas. We don't want to

14:15

be able to be brought into a court,

14:17

an international court over anything we

14:19

might do. I

14:21

think these arguments are really

14:24

not as important as

14:26

the things that we're giving up by

14:28

not being a part of this agreement. We

14:31

do have the ability to

14:33

ratify parts of the convention,

14:35

even if we don't ratify

14:37

the whole convention. We hopefully

14:39

can ratify this sub-part,

14:41

the BBNJ, the Areas Beyond

14:44

National Jurisdiction or Biodiversity Beyond

14:46

National Jurisdiction Treaty. This new

14:48

treaty is so important because

14:50

it does govern half of

14:53

the planet, and it governs

14:55

the discovery of new

14:58

biological resources in that high seas

15:00

area. So it both allows the

15:02

world to create protected areas, parks

15:05

like our national parks, but an

15:07

international park, if you will, in

15:09

the high seas and protect some

15:12

of the most fragile and important

15:14

marine ecosystems. But on top of

15:16

that, it allows for a system

15:19

in which there will

15:21

be registration of new biological

15:23

information, genetic sequencing information that

15:26

comes out of the ocean

15:29

that might lead to new advances

15:31

in medicines or in other

15:34

applications. So it's

15:37

a shame for us not to be a part

15:39

of that. In this particular one,

15:41

we could become a member if we were to

15:43

ratify it, but we'd have to get 67 votes

15:45

in the Senate. And I

15:48

don't know that we'll be able to do that,

15:51

given the reluctance to join the overall law

15:53

of the sea convention. So

15:55

I have to ask you this, since you're not

15:58

in government anymore, take

16:00

to get America on board? I

16:02

think people would have to understand

16:04

that in fact we are the largest

16:07

ocean nation in the world. We

16:09

have the largest exclusive economic zone. We

16:12

benefit tremendously in our economy

16:14

from the ocean and

16:17

our climate is impacted tremendously

16:19

by the ocean and there

16:22

are big forces in the world. China

16:25

in particular is extremely

16:27

active in the

16:30

use of ocean resources. They have

16:32

the biggest distant water fleet. They're

16:34

fishing more out in the high

16:36

seas than anyone else. They're exploring

16:39

tremendously and if we want to be

16:42

a force in this century,

16:44

I believe this is going to be an

16:46

ocean century and if we the US government

16:48

want to be a force in the world

16:50

for good, we have to be a

16:52

part of these big treaties. I hope

16:55

that people see that it's

16:57

important for us in our

16:59

foreign policy and our security

17:02

at its most basic but

17:04

also because of the impact

17:06

on our environment. So

17:09

on that question of the environment then,

17:11

I was hoping you

17:13

could explain to us a bit

17:15

about what marine protected areas are

17:17

and why they are so important

17:19

to protecting our biodiversity. So

17:22

a marine protected area is a

17:24

park in the ocean and like

17:27

parks on land, they often

17:29

have different levels of protection

17:31

within them. Many

17:33

many countries, the US

17:35

included, have created marine

17:37

sanctuaries and fully

17:40

protected marine protected areas

17:42

within our 200 mile

17:44

jurisdiction and that's a

17:46

terrific thing. What a

17:49

protected area does is create

17:51

governance first and foremost within

17:53

its boundaries and it

17:55

is One key way to

17:57

ensure that we hold on to the ground.

18:00

Into and understand the way the

18:02

ocean functions in our overall

18:04

system within the planet. It it

18:06

is still a very much

18:08

unknown part of the planet. We

18:11

we often say in the

18:13

ocean world that we know more

18:15

about the moon and we

18:17

know about much of the alliance.

18:20

There is a race now to

18:22

discover a lot more of

18:24

the ocean to explore it to

18:26

map it. So there is

18:28

a huge amount. For us

18:31

to know and it's important to

18:33

protect theories before they become. Overly

18:35

industrialized or damaged by

18:37

humans and that's the

18:39

key. We know that

18:41

particular with respect to

18:43

climate. If you can

18:45

restrict all the other

18:47

stressors of overfishing or

18:49

pollution. In. It

18:51

particular space then. Even.

18:54

If it to have some a damaged

18:56

due to climate. Change. It can

18:59

breathe rebound more easily. That's.

19:01

The wonderful thing about nature

19:03

is that if left alone

19:05

and protected, it will conserve

19:08

itself and it can even

19:10

repair. It's so it's important

19:12

theorists. Protect

19:14

the Ocean society, Protect past. And

19:16

then they're. They're full of

19:19

Londoners. They are important to

19:21

us for at environmental purposes

19:23

for climate purposes, and I

19:25

think people in. Do. Love

19:27

the ocean at some very

19:30

most sort of spiritual basic

19:32

level. Ah, the beasts see

19:34

it as. Key. Part

19:36

of what makes us the Blue planet.

19:39

What? What gives us life? That. Such

19:41

a great analogy our with parks.

19:43

you know I was wondering global

19:45

The It often seems to me

19:47

that it's lower income countries that

19:49

bear the brunt of a lot

19:52

of the problems you're describing overfishing

19:54

often from wealthier countries, And it's

19:56

poor countries that lack the means

19:58

and resources to. Create

20:00

protections around their areas to enforce

20:02

any sort of fisheries management plans.

20:04

I'm at a global level. What

20:07

can be done to reverse that?

20:09

Conservationists are working all around

20:11

the world to create protected

20:13

areas in senate These countries

20:15

that are that are are

20:17

struggling. We just saw the

20:19

Republic of Congo create a

20:22

marine protected areas for the

20:24

first time we had seen

20:26

at the Pacific Island nations,

20:28

many of them stepping up

20:30

to. Pick. A large parts

20:32

of their big ocean territory

20:34

as much as thirty percent

20:36

or more. Costa. Rica,

20:39

Colombia, Ecuador, Some of the most

20:41

biodiverse countries in the world have

20:43

stepped up to protect ocean resources,

20:45

and we hope that many, many

20:48

countries will do the same. When

20:50

I was in the Us government,

20:52

we started a push to get

20:54

as many countries as we could

20:57

to sign up to protect thirty

20:59

percent of their ocean territory and

21:01

be heard. Many. Many

21:03

countries signed up to do it, so

21:05

we were very excited by that. In

21:07

the U S is very, very close

21:10

to that thirty percent number which is

21:12

amazing. We. Could

21:14

get there is a

21:16

President Biden and the

21:18

National Oceanic and Atmospheric

21:20

Administration create. Oh, one

21:22

more add to one more

21:25

existing. Monument. In

21:27

the Ocean they're working to make

21:29

it a sanctuary which is a

21:31

slightly different legal set of protections.

21:34

It's called the Pacific Remote Islands

21:36

Marine National Monuments and their to

21:38

more areas within that monument that

21:40

is expanded and it's it becomes

21:43

a sanctuary we will hit thirty

21:45

percent and then along with smaller

21:47

ones like the Hudson Canyon one

21:49

that we propose off the coast

21:52

of New York when us the

21:54

world was much different. And land

21:56

was much farther out. There was

21:59

a canyon. There is a canyon

22:01

out in the ocean now called Hudson

22:03

Canyon at the end that extended the

22:05

Hudson River and we're trying

22:07

to get it protected. We the Wildlife

22:09

Conservation Society where I am the president

22:12

and CEO, we're working very hard with

22:14

the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to

22:16

protect that area. It's not as

22:18

big as the Pacific remote islands but we

22:20

the US have very few protections along the

22:23

East Coast so that would be another one.

22:25

It would be great. At

22:27

a global level I'm curious, I mean we were

22:29

just talking about smaller countries but it

22:32

strikes me that sometimes the

22:34

biggest countries on

22:36

the one hand, you know China for

22:38

example was chair when the Biodiversity Treaty

22:40

was pushed through but it

22:43

also continues to overfish along

22:46

its coast. The EU

22:48

also is a leader on sustainability. It

22:51

is one of the top fishers in our

22:53

oceans. I'm curious at a global

22:55

level how you push all of

22:57

these big countries, big regions, big

22:59

blocks, how do you

23:01

push them on better sustainability of our

23:03

oceans when a lot

23:05

of that will mean them having to change

23:07

their fishing practices, some of

23:10

those changes could be unpopular. How

23:12

do you exert pressure? It

23:14

is a challenge but I think

23:16

that new technology actually is the

23:19

key because now we can see

23:21

what's happening in the ocean

23:24

much more easily than we could before.

23:27

There's a wonderful NGO called Global Fishing

23:29

Watch and if you go to their

23:31

website you can see where fishing

23:33

is happening in real time and

23:37

unless countries or particular

23:40

vessels are not complying with the

23:42

rules for transparency

23:44

of fishing, increasingly we can

23:46

tell where the most damaging

23:49

fishing activity is happening and

23:51

that public awareness is

23:53

really important to bringing the right kinds

23:55

of pressure. In fact, I

23:57

would argue that... In.

24:00

Some ways that's a more

24:03

effective kind of pressure than

24:05

even though legal tribunals that

24:07

some treaties ah have. Because.

24:10

It takes so long to get

24:12

to those legal tribunal processes. The.

24:15

International Court of Justice takes a

24:17

long time. The

24:20

love to see tribunal Long time

24:22

to come to a decision in

24:24

a in a. Court. Type

24:26

case where the Court of Public

24:28

Opinion. React. Very

24:31

quickly to information and

24:33

I think increasingly trace

24:35

ability and consumers having

24:37

the power to buy

24:39

sustainable products. whether it's

24:41

an sustainable says that

24:43

is caught we know

24:45

in the right places

24:47

harvested the right ways

24:49

or whether it's an

24:51

the use of new

24:53

technologies like seaweed to

24:55

create replacements for plastic

24:57

step are biodegradable and.

25:00

Therefore, not nearly as damaging

25:02

to the environment, land or

25:04

sea. I I think new

25:06

technologies and accountability through. Public.

25:09

A transparency as far more

25:12

effective in in solving these

25:14

problems than some of the

25:16

some old mechanism said the

25:18

treaty world and in fact

25:20

there is a big question

25:22

about whether the plastic agreement

25:24

will be a treaty or

25:26

as agreement like the Paris

25:28

Agreement where countries set their

25:30

own plans, make them transparent

25:32

and that are held accountable

25:34

in the public up for

25:36

whether or not they meet

25:38

their requirements. and i would argue

25:40

in this day and age when

25:42

ratification is a challenging thing for

25:44

many small countries sometimes those kind

25:47

of executive agreements those green it's

25:49

like the paris accord and be

25:51

far more effective because they can

25:53

go into effect quickly and they

25:55

have public accountability mechanisms that it

25:57

may be far more effective and

26:00

quicker at bringing countries

26:02

into compliance than the

26:04

traditional treaty mechanisms. So

26:06

in your reboot thinking

26:08

in this program, I would

26:11

say look at whether there

26:13

may be better ways to

26:15

get global agreement than just

26:17

the old treaty form of

26:19

agreement. And I guess

26:22

on that, especially in the global south

26:24

and poorer countries where there

26:26

are so many competing agendas, climate

26:28

change but also just hunger or

26:31

poverty or people having access to

26:33

electricity and energy. And

26:35

amid all of that, how do you

26:38

build a public mood in

26:40

lower income countries to

26:43

build pressure on governments to take

26:45

responsibility for what is essentially a

26:47

shared public space, the oceans

26:50

that you're describing? What we

26:52

need to build is a

26:54

global movement for conservation that

26:58

connects everyone across the planet

27:00

in this global goal

27:02

because we have to have a

27:04

shared sense of both the challenge

27:07

and the solutions. And

27:09

I think what is increasingly obvious

27:12

is that even though environmental

27:14

challenges and problems express themselves

27:17

very locally, the solutions

27:19

are for the most part global.

27:23

And that's why I

27:25

believe there is more and more

27:27

agreement around the globe that

27:29

we need to take action

27:32

as a globe to solve these problems,

27:34

whether it's climate change, ocean

27:37

conservation, plastic pollution,

27:39

or how to solve water

27:42

crises around the globe and

27:44

the increasing awareness of the

27:46

interconnection of even freshwater systems

27:48

to the ocean and to

27:50

these larger systemic environmental

27:53

processes. I think we're

27:55

increasingly aware that we

27:57

are interconnected both

28:00

economically and ecologically. And so

28:02

the solutions have to be

28:05

global, whether it's money or

28:08

technological know-how or cooperation,

28:11

whether it's countries like ours that have

28:13

done so much under the

28:15

Biden administration to bring about

28:17

the ability to really reduce

28:19

our greenhouse gas emissions and

28:21

take responsibility for the pollution

28:23

we're putting into the system,

28:25

into the atmosphere, or

28:28

whether it's through an agreement on

28:30

shipping and shipping pollution, which

28:33

we're increasingly working towards at

28:35

another international body

28:37

called the International Maritime Organization, or

28:40

whether it's cooperation on ending plastic

28:43

pollution and reducing the amount of

28:45

plastic in the system. All

28:47

of these things are going to

28:49

come through global cooperation, and the

28:53

cooperation north, south, east,

28:55

west developed and developing countries.

28:59

You know, Monica, the oceans, as

29:01

you said, represent 70 percent of the

29:03

world. It doesn't seem

29:05

to me that it takes up

29:07

70 percent of our leaders' attention.

29:11

When you work in this space,

29:13

both in government and now out of government,

29:16

what gives you hope? I

29:19

will tell you, when that

29:21

agreement that Aries Beyond National

29:23

Jurisdiction, or BBNJ agreement, was

29:25

signed, the amount of press

29:27

coverage it got really surprised me in

29:30

a good way. I

29:32

was really amazed that people

29:34

sort of latched onto

29:36

the fact that the

29:38

planet was ungoverned in such

29:42

a big part of its space, and

29:45

that people really

29:47

do have an emotional connection to

29:49

the ocean, whether it was

29:52

the straw in

29:54

the belly of the seabird that

29:56

washed up on shore that caused

29:58

people to die. Does this really

30:00

say enough plastic pollution? We have

30:03

to stop this problem. Or

30:05

whether it's the incredible

30:10

desire to, I think,

30:13

protect wild places

30:16

in the ocean that

30:18

people instinctively can latch

30:20

onto, that's what gives me hope. The

30:22

fact that we were able to get so

30:25

many countries to agree after

30:27

so many years of negotiation

30:30

on this areas beyond national

30:32

jurisdiction treaty really gives me

30:34

a hope that future

30:36

generations will get to have a

30:38

planet with a healthy ocean, a healthy

30:41

climate, and where they

30:43

can still enjoy some of those

30:45

wonders. Monica Medina, what a pleasure

30:48

to have you on Global Reboot. Thank

30:50

you so much for having me. We

30:52

at WCS are working to save

30:54

the oceans everywhere, every day, and

30:56

we're thrilled to be active in

30:58

this part of conservation. And

31:05

that was Monica Medina, the

31:07

president and CEO of the

31:09

Wildlife Conservation Society. Global

31:11

Reboot is a partnership between Foreign Policy

31:14

and the Doha Forum. Our

31:16

production staff includes Rosie Julen and

31:18

Dan Efron. Next

31:20

week, you will hear from C. Raja

31:23

Mohan, an FP columnist. We're

31:25

going to talk about the increasing

31:27

importance of the global south in

31:29

geopolitics and how the west should

31:31

reboot its relations with the rest

31:34

of the world. Thanks for

31:36

listening to Global Reboot. I'm Ravi Akhral. I

31:39

will see you next time.