0:00

Welcome to Go, Ask Ali, a production

0:02

of Shonda Land Audio and partnership with I

0:04

Heart Radio. I

0:06

think, like a vaginas have a lot to say. I think

0:09

we should let them stay out of it and they'll just

0:11

talk. Yes, one of the hardest

0:13

things to absorb for those who are new to

0:15

these kinds of fights. Again, if

0:17

we want all of them, we wouldn't be here.

0:20

If you see a monster, don't

0:22

try to run away, step right up

0:24

to it and say, what do you have to teach me?

0:26

Why are you? In my mind, I want to be the person

0:28

who has cancer and doesn't run a marathon,

0:31

Like do I have to work that hard? No, it's

0:33

the best excuse not to run a marathon.

0:41

Welcome to go, Ask Allie. I'm Alli Wentworth.

0:44

I don't know about you, but I

0:46

don't know if it's post COVID or

0:49

just getting older perhaps

0:51

wiser. But I've really been meditating

0:54

on the idea of a simpler life,

0:56

and by simpler I mean cozier,

1:00

smaller, warmer. I

1:03

think there's a few things that we learned going

1:05

through the pandemic about how

1:07

our food can be simpler, our

1:10

socializing can be simpler, and

1:12

what's really important what's sort of at

1:14

the heart of everything is

1:17

our family and our friends. And

1:19

I look at my life and

1:22

the years I lived in Hollywood, and

1:24

how now I'm a mom and a

1:26

wife, and I really love

1:28

being home. In fact, I hate

1:30

going out. I know

1:33

that I've scaled back in so many ways.

1:36

And I know people that are now, you

1:38

know, knitting their own socks or

1:41

growing their own vegetables. So

1:43

are we all becoming

1:46

more and more fascinated with the idea

1:48

of a simpler life. A

1:52

long time ago, millions of years

1:54

ago, when I was a little girl, there is a show

1:56

on called Little House in the Prairie, and

1:58

it honored and folks on these simple

2:01

things. And it was about this little

2:03

girl, Laura Ingles, who I wanted

2:05

to be, and just the fantasy

2:08

of living on a prairie and

2:11

life was about a kettle

2:13

on the wood fire, and quilts

2:16

and one plaid dress and

2:18

running down the hill with your dog.

2:21

It just everything seemed easy

2:24

and less stressful and less anxious.

2:27

And here to talk about her own journey towards

2:30

simplicity is Laura Ingles Wilder

2:32

herself Melissa Gilbert.

2:35

Melissa Gilbert may always be

2:37

best known as a child star of the hit television

2:39

show Little House in the Prairie. Melissa

2:42

was just nine years old when the iconic series

2:44

began in nineteen seventy four, and by

2:46

the time it ended in the

2:49

world had watched half pint grow

2:51

up. Since her days as Laura Ingles

2:53

Wilder, Melissa has continued her acting

2:55

career, served two terms as the

2:57

President of the Screen Actors Guild, and

3:00

four books, including her latest one and

3:02

memoir in the New York Times bestseller, Back

3:05

to the Prairie Home Remade

3:07

a Life Rediscovered. In it, she

3:09

shares her journey from glitzy Hollywood

3:11

life to a fix her up or deep in the Catskills

3:14

were the only sparkle to be found is

3:16

the stars in the sky. So

3:19

basically, Melissa has become Laura

3:21

Ingles Wilder. Okay,

3:27

Melissa Gilbert, So I

3:29

met you for twenty seconds.

3:31

And here's the thing about getting older,

3:34

is you into it more about

3:36

things? Uh? You and I

3:38

were both on Good Morning America. Yes, we

3:41

were pitching our bibles, pitching our books,

3:43

and I walked away. After

3:46

all we had to do was do a tease to a commercial,

3:48

and I went, I like her. She's

3:50

she's good. People. You know what this

3:52

episode is called. I Want to Be Friends with Melissa

3:55

Gilbert. That's it. That's the headline,

3:57

and everything else is just uh

4:00

I sing on the cake. So um.

4:02

I will start with one of the

4:04

things that you wrote that I loved, which is external

4:07

matter more than the internal. And

4:09

the reason I kind of love that quote

4:12

is because I lived in Los Angeles

4:14

for a million years and I,

4:18

you know, I was kind of I was a fat teenager.

4:20

I didn't sort of rely on the exterior.

4:22

And then I found when I was out in l A.

4:25

I wasn't the girl that went to the gym,

4:27

you know. I was like, Oh, I'll be the funny sidekick.

4:29

You know, I'm gonna I'll stay in that lane.

4:32

And over time, I've watched so

4:35

many women that I used to know in l A who

4:37

got caught up in that web

4:40

of I have to be perfect

4:42

and beautiful and young and

4:44

it's um And to me, it's such a

4:46

cautionary tale because the

4:48

depth they've gone to to you

4:51

know, remain in the

4:54

fountain of eternal youth has

4:56

been very difficult to watch. Yeah,

4:58

it's hard. It was completely impossible

5:01

for me to do anymore. It's exhausting,

5:04

trying to fight a natural process

5:06

to fit into a mold that everybody

5:09

else feels you should be in. It's

5:13

fruitless and pointless and frustrating.

5:15

I mean, you know how many fifty year old

5:18

ingineuse are there. I'm

5:20

sadly quite a few who think

5:22

they are and are trying

5:24

to be. Yeah. And I remember a

5:28

few years ago my agent saying,

5:30

yeah, there's no more roles for you, and

5:32

I said, I don't understand what that means. And he

5:34

said there's no more roles for women of your age.

5:37

And I was like, well, does Diane

5:39

Lane know this, because

5:42

you need to tell the rest of us. And

5:44

I thought. It hit

5:46

me on such a deep level that I ended

5:49

up going out and creating

5:51

a show called Nightcap, which was on

5:53

Pop TV, which is a network no one

5:55

had ever heard of. But for me, it fueled

5:58

this kind of thing of I'll show you there's

6:00

no roles for women my age. Um,

6:03

and it's the anger sort of got me

6:05

ignited to do this. But I

6:08

I guess I've always fought against that, you

6:10

know what I mean. And whenever somebody says no,

6:12

you can't or there's

6:15

no roles for you, or you have to look

6:17

like this. I go, I'll show you. I'll

6:19

show you. And I think you have that

6:21

in you too. Yeah, that's I

6:24

definitely do. I spent almost my

6:26

entire life just pinning my hands behind my

6:28

back and saying watch this right

6:30

and leaning forward, and I'll just create

6:32

my own opportunities. Then I'll write something

6:35

like you did. And and I

6:37

think that a lot of that,

6:39

that tenacity, you know, it's important,

6:42

and it's especially important as

6:44

women and women who are older. They there's

6:46

this I don't know why, but

6:49

we tend to be forgotten and pushed away and look

6:51

through and you know, we start to become invisible

6:54

and like you know, cute old ladies and

6:57

it doesn't make any sense. And I read

6:59

your book, um, the last one, like in

7:02

a day. I loved it. But there's

7:04

a thing that we hopefully

7:06

get that I have that I see in you too, this

7:08

kind of grounded center. This

7:11

is me. I like ice cream.

7:14

I'm unapologetic. I've earned

7:16

my opinions. I know what I don't

7:18

want in this world. And the

7:21

other thing that is so stupid that they're underestimating

7:23

is we're the consumers. Why

7:26

they're not selling to us is beyond

7:29

me. We have the money.

7:31

I completely And by the way,

7:33

we're also watching the shows,

7:36

So start creating content with

7:39

themes and stories and people that look

7:41

like us, because that's

7:43

who's watching television and streaming.

7:46

Yeah, we are your advertising

7:48

dollars. We are exactly who the people

7:50

you should be focused on. And it's

7:53

just so mindlessly youth youth,

7:55

youth, youth, youth oriented. And yes, we

7:57

do need content for young

7:59

people, but come on, there's the rest

8:01

of us here too. I completely

8:04

agree. And by the way, I have an eighty

8:06

eight year old mother who

8:08

has was it is a formidable

8:11

person who did all kinds of amazing

8:13

things in her life, and she says to me all the

8:15

time, there's nothing out there for me that

8:17

there's that Jane Fonda show, but I don't look like

8:19

her. I'm eighty eight years old. Don't put me

8:21

out to pasture. Yea, My

8:24

mom's the same, she's eighty six. Yeah, So

8:26

let me ask you this, because, um, we

8:29

are very similar now, but

8:31

we didn't grow up in a very similar way.

8:33

You were a child star and

8:36

I'm sort of fascinated with that world

8:38

because one of

8:40

my friends is Brooke Shields, and I say to her all

8:42

the time. You should be dead or in rehab.

8:45

I don't understand how you're doing

8:47

dishes or trying to make lasagna

8:49

right now because of

8:51

that insanity

8:54

that you guys went through at

8:56

such a young age. I mean, you were

8:58

in the entertainment factory

9:01

when your frontal lobe was still developing.

9:03

You saw things that one shouldn't

9:05

see at such a young age. Yeah, but

9:08

but look at you now, So

9:10

why what? What are the things that

9:12

it took to get you to be sitting here

9:14

with a healthy marriage,

9:17

in a fabulous cabbage

9:20

cottage and with

9:22

a with a dog chewing on a two toy next

9:24

to you, Like, what is that arc? It's

9:27

it's it's long arc. And

9:30

I think the most important thing

9:32

for me was about thirty years of therapy. Really,

9:35

it took a lot um.

9:37

I've had conversations with I

9:39

can't tell you how many former kid actors

9:41

and child stars. I even produced

9:43

a documentary for any several years

9:45

ago with my friend Tony Dow

9:48

who just passed recently. It was called

9:50

child Stars, Their Story and

9:52

by and large the

9:55

common thread. And I even had a conversation this

9:57

weekend. I for the first time met Corey

10:00

Feldman and had this conversation with him.

10:03

The problem wasn't so much the factory

10:06

or the studio, although that did

10:08

have its issues and the sets in the

10:10

business. It was the way our families

10:12

handled it and our family dynamics.

10:15

The more dysfunctional the family, the

10:17

more deadly it could

10:19

be with the kids. Um

10:22

And and the interesting thing I talked about with Corey

10:24

Feldman was, um,

10:26

you know, we we kind of quickly touched on people

10:28

we knew in common, and and I told him I'd

10:30

seen his documentary and we touched

10:33

on that. And I was talking about, um,

10:35

my son. Somehow I brought up my son,

10:38

Michael, who had gone on tour with me in a musical, and

10:41

you know, because we were saying we wouldn't have professional kids,

10:43

and I said, I took him with me and I watched

10:45

him like a hawk. He was with me, so there was nothing

10:47

going to happen. But he was telling

10:49

me his son just turned eighteen, and

10:52

I said, don't you find it? Did you find it? Incredibly

10:54

healing that because with me, when

10:56

I turned eighteen, like when he turned eighteen, then

10:58

you get your cooking money and now you're an adult,

11:01

and now you're responsible for everything, and

11:03

there's just all this weird stuff that happens when you're

11:05

a kid actor and you turn eighteen, and watching

11:08

my son's all four of them turn

11:10

eighteen, so just blithely

11:13

like it was just another number was

11:15

actually really healing for me. And I asked

11:17

him if he noticed that too, and he said absolutely,

11:20

because my kids a kid, do you feel like

11:22

you were robbed of a childhood at all? I mean, do you

11:24

feel like you couldn't go out and be

11:27

just a girl on the run. I

11:30

felt responsible to

11:32

behave a certain way in public because I

11:35

felt like I was an example to

11:37

other kids, which was a thing

11:39

I probably put on myself more than

11:41

anything. Um. I also made

11:43

the mistake once of reading a fan letter.

11:46

Um, I wasn't really privy to all

11:49

of that stuff, and I snuck into the room

11:51

where the fan mail was and I pulled one fan letter

11:53

out and it happened to be one from a little girl

11:55

who said, my daddy says he'll

11:57

hit me less if I'm more like you. Oh

11:59

my god, And I think I was eleven.

12:02

That's too much. Yeah, And that

12:04

was like I took that on

12:07

for sure. Of course, I felt immensely

12:09

responsible now for her well

12:11

being too, so course, Um

12:14

yeah, there were there were things now I

12:16

don't My childhood was my childhood,

12:19

and I was really lucky. I grew

12:21

up on a set that was really kid friendly. Um

12:24

we did have you know, we played, we did

12:26

stuff, we got dirty. I had, you

12:28

know, the requisite broken bones and sore throats.

12:30

The thing for me was unlike other kids,

12:32

I still had to go to work even

12:34

with a sore throat and broken bones. And did you

12:36

still have you know, all the things

12:38

sort of young adults have, which

12:41

is the first kiss? I mean, was all that somewhat

12:44

protected? I? I think about my teenagers

12:47

in COVID, you know, and I always said, like they

12:49

should be out robbing liquor stores

12:51

and getting pregnant like all the all the teens

12:53

do, but they were stuck with their parents,

12:55

you know, watching documentaries. But did

12:58

you feel like you had of all

13:00

the typical milestones

13:03

of I did. I did, And

13:05

much to my mother's credit, because my father,

13:07

my father had passed away when I was eleven, and

13:10

so my mother was my primary parents

13:14

all my life. Um, she

13:16

she was actually very protective of me. So I

13:18

didn't go on my first date till I was sixteen.

13:21

I wasn't allowed to pierce my ears till I was eighteen.

13:24

Um, and then of course, you know I turned eighteen and

13:26

pierced my ears three and four times. Um,

13:29

not just your ears, I would imagine. I

13:32

know, actually it was at that point it was just my

13:34

Well, no, I've never paarceded anything. I have

13:36

tattoos. That's another conversation.

13:40

Um, I am.

13:42

I I kind of

13:44

got a little nuts in my early twenties.

13:47

That's when I really like, I

13:49

just went a little

13:52

wild and um,

13:54

no different than anybody else who was in college.

13:56

I would imagine. I think my life, My

13:59

life was like a party. It just happened to

14:01

be a Hollywood frat party. And they weren't

14:03

frat boys. They were bratt boys, brat

14:05

pack boys. So it was a little different,

14:08

and you know, people were watching what

14:10

we were doing. But I also came

14:13

up at a time where paparazzi

14:15

we're just paparazzi, and v I P rooms

14:18

were still v I P rooms, so you could go to the back and

14:20

just act like idiots and nobody really cared.

14:23

Now everyone's got a phone, so everyone's a paparazzo,

14:25

So there's really no privacy anywhere, so

14:28

you know. Um, so you

14:30

are nestled up in your cabbage,

14:33

your term which is a cabin and

14:35

a cottage. Right you're there right

14:37

now? No, actually I'm not. I'm

14:39

in our apartment in the city. Pliss is married

14:42

to the director, Chimmothy Bussfield. Um.

14:45

This is our two weeks of um doctor's

14:47

appointments and follow ups. Who's having

14:49

a colonoscope this week? We

14:52

are both meeting with gastro

14:54

and trologists tomorrow to have our colonoscopy

14:57

consultations. I love that you asked

15:00

you're not having a couple's colonoscopy because

15:02

that's fun. Well, we we've

15:04

talked about what I mean, if you want to

15:06

get really into this, I don't know, Tim,

15:09

Are you okay with me talking about thumbs up? Um?

15:12

We talked about doing it at the same

15:15

time and just having a his or hers. But our apartment

15:17

here in the city is a nice, perfect

15:19

little piano tear one bedroom, one bathroom,

15:23

so prep day could get a little

15:25

hectic with the two of us

15:27

doing it at the same time. And this the

15:30

plumbing in this building is very sensitive, so

15:32

I think we might want to stagger. I

15:35

think you should stagger or somebody

15:38

should maybe go to a hotel. Yeah,

15:40

because it will be very competitive

15:42

and there's somebody's going to lose the race, you

15:44

know what I mean. And competitive

15:47

is good, and your dog is going to

15:49

get a mixed message about what he's allowed

15:51

to do around the apart exactly.

15:53

And I sort of like in my head I pictured

15:55

the scene in the bathroom and Bridesmaids,

15:58

you know, and it just doesn't see smart.

16:02

There's a lot more to come after the short break

16:10

and we're back with more. Go ask Galey,

16:14

you did buy this cabbage

16:17

cabin cabin cottage. Yes,

16:20

cabbage. I conflated the two words and

16:22

it's stuck. So now it's the cabbage, which

16:24

is a fantastic word. And I feel

16:26

like in this world of pinterest

16:29

and everything and you know, the cottage

16:31

cozy culture, that cabbage

16:34

may have a life of its own, Like

16:36

it could be a whole industry that

16:39

people could tap into, that could

16:41

be monetized by you. It could

16:43

be Well, I do have the Modern

16:45

Prairie website and we just launched

16:47

a lifestyle thing, so I have it.

16:50

It's a place for women and older

16:52

particularly to share

16:54

their experience, their thoughts,

16:56

their ideas, their skills. All

16:58

of the women that we prom mote as our mavens

17:01

and our makers are

17:04

All of our products are made by women,

17:06

and everything has a story,

17:09

and we have a wellness section,

17:11

and then there's kitchen and home

17:14

and garden and all of that, which is so fantastic

17:16

because I think, particularly knock

17:19

on Wood, coming out of this pandemic, I

17:22

think people are realizing that

17:25

there's a coziness that

17:27

they want to keep, that there's

17:29

a connection to community and family

17:32

and friends that that they want to nourish.

17:35

There is a kind of metaphoric

17:38

and physical kind of

17:40

back to basics what's

17:42

important ye that I'm trying to hold

17:44

onto, which seems like you've really tapped

17:47

into. Yeah, it's the simple

17:49

things that really mattered. Look when

17:51

when you back it all up to a couple

17:54

of years ago, and we

17:56

couldn't as a nation get

17:59

toilet paper, everything

18:01

else falls away. You

18:03

know, what's a manicure, what's

18:06

a spa day, What's I

18:08

mean? All of these things become so wildly

18:10

unimportant, And um,

18:13

I found that

18:16

I really enjoy that simplicity and

18:18

that I don't like you. I don't want to lose it.

18:20

I don't want to go back to what we were. I

18:22

learned so much about myself and

18:24

and Tim and I together found

18:26

this place of true peace

18:29

and tranquility and quietness. And you

18:31

know, We've got chickens and we have our garden,

18:33

and I'm constantly

18:36

just dirty and sticky and sweaty and happy.

18:38

And we cook, we go to I

18:40

mean, we're we are old funny duddies. We go

18:42

to sleep at ten, we wake up at six, we

18:45

go to bed at eight, So we are

18:49

you are the funny duddiest, Yes,

18:51

because George does get up at three o'clock

18:53

in the morning to do m so right, Well,

18:56

yeah, and yeah, that's not my excuse. But

18:59

I like a lot of sleep, and I'm going to go

19:02

to bed with my husband, so you know, I'm

19:04

the same way. I'm sleep is one of my favorite

19:06

things to do. It maybe my favorite activity

19:08

ever. I get into it like I care

19:11

about the pillow. I love a pajama

19:13

if George allows me to keep them on.

19:16

I like the whole nesting process.

19:18

We have two dogs that bury it like

19:20

it's a whole Eskimo thing

19:22

that we have going on in our house, which I love.

19:25

We were the exactly the same. The

19:27

bed is the center of the house, and when

19:29

we travel we take our sheets. You know, I'm

19:31

a I'm a big princess in the person,

19:33

and I love my betting. I totally get it.

19:36

Are you going to be selling betting on your website?

19:38

You know, we haven't talked about that yet. Maybe

19:40

I don't know right now. The only textiles we have

19:42

our kitchen. We're really focused on kitchen

19:44

because women, the women who have

19:47

subscribed so far really want to hear

19:49

the kitchen stuff. And then we did something really

19:51

interesting. Um I did a little

19:54

Instagram Facebook life thing with a

19:56

woman I loved. Her name is Christine Simple,

19:58

and she's a life coach. But she's like she's

20:01

she's a gnarly fantastic life

20:03

coach and she's just all about simplicity

20:06

and loving yourself. That's

20:08

really what you gotta do, and like starting so

20:11

small, just smile at yourself in the mirror.

20:13

That's like it. And she's she's amazing.

20:15

So we did this this forum together,

20:18

and we put out a questionnaire to our

20:20

members and said what do you want us to focus on? And

20:22

the number one subject

20:24

that came back was grief, grieving and healing,

20:27

and so we're just now putting together

20:29

another forum with my best friend Sandy, who

20:33

lost her firstborn son when he was sixteen

20:35

to meningitis and then not

20:37

only recovered from the grief herself,

20:40

but also became a grief counselor and then wrote

20:42

a book on it called How to Survive the Worst

20:44

That Can Happen, which is like a step by step workbook

20:47

on how to get through that

20:50

if if it's at all positive. And

20:53

so we're going to start without and so these

20:55

are the kind of things that I want

20:58

that sort of sense of community back that

21:00

we don't have anymore because we're also we

21:02

were so siloed before COVID

21:04

because of politics, and

21:06

then COVID and social media.

21:09

Yes, well yeah, I mean you've got some you

21:12

know people. George carlin

21:14

Um, who is one of my favorite stand

21:16

up comics in the whole world, once said,

21:19

the degree to which a person is an asshole

21:22

grows exponentially the further away

21:24

you are from them physically. So if

21:26

you're across the room from that guy, you go, that

21:28

guy's an asshole. But if he's standing here, you go, that

21:30

guy's an asshole. And social

21:33

media has made it even worse. People

21:35

will say the most horrible things,

21:38

but they would never say them to your face. And

21:41

I think that it really got exacerbated

21:43

when we were all locked down too and

21:46

then and then the politics and

21:48

the heat of the summer

21:50

and the social unrest and the racial

21:52

reckoning and all of that stuff

21:54

just exploded. And nobody knows how to I

21:57

mean, most people don't know how to be

22:00

kind anymore, Like we all forgot

22:02

how to be polite at least, and

22:04

it's you know, it's getting worse. It is

22:06

getting worse. But one thing I wanted to say about

22:08

sort of going back to basics and community

22:11

is one thing I've noticed about women

22:13

our age is that we can finally, like

22:16

my friend Katie used to say, we

22:18

no longer have to be sexy sexy.

22:20

We get to wear big straw hats and grow tomatoes

22:22

now, and we just need to you embrace

22:25

that. Next chapter, you go, I'm

22:27

good with this. So what have I learned and

22:29

what I want to do? And one thing that

22:31

I've realized, you know, I discovered

22:34

clamming during the pandemic, but I realized

22:38

I want to go, Oh, I will

22:40

take you anytime, I really will, absolutely

22:43

I went yesterday actually and

22:45

got a hundred clams. And

22:47

it was so it is just so

22:51

it's my meditation. And I now

22:53

I don't even use the rake. I sit in the

22:55

sand and I just use my hands

22:57

and I pulled them up and then I give them

22:59

all away, give the give a bunch to the

23:02

local vet. And that this, you know, And

23:05

I realized that I have another friend who

23:07

used to be Obama's chief

23:09

of staff and she now is an upstate

23:12

making jam. And so we

23:14

find these things that of

23:16

course, when you're twenty two, you

23:18

know, you know, it's not cool to be like, hey, I make

23:21

jam, but I knit. Yeah,

23:24

I'm knit. She makes jam, but

23:27

like it's so delicious now

23:29

that she's like driving it down to ze Bar, you

23:31

know it. It's now it's like baby boom.

23:33

But I know so many women

23:35

that have found these you know, she

23:38

she's making it into a business. But small

23:41

things that bring us so much

23:43

joy. And they're simple, they're

23:46

really simple things. It's

23:48

simple, and you have to at least I did

23:50

this. I came to this moment where I thought, well,

23:52

what am I going to do with this last third of my life? Am

23:54

I still going to keep pushing and rushing and

23:56

doing and going. I mean to the point of even when

23:59

I was running for off years ago, is

24:01

that the direction I want to go? Or do I

24:03

really want to lean into this peaceful, settled

24:06

You know, I love having freedom.

24:09

I don't really feel particularly

24:12

consciously ambitious. I'm

24:14

still wildly competitive, I

24:16

always will be, UM, but I'm

24:19

I've taken the pressure

24:21

off to have to win. I just compete with myself

24:23

now I don't have to beat anybody else. And

24:26

UM, I just I

24:29

think a lot of women are at

24:32

this age reassessing what is this last

24:34

third? I want the freedom to be at mar

24:36

kids are all over the country. I want to go see

24:38

the grandkids whenever I have free

24:41

time. I don't want to lock myself into

24:43

doing things that, um,

24:45

I don't want to do anymore. And one

24:47

of the one of the things I've learned to do is

24:50

how to say no. And I, you

24:52

know, spent so much of my life saying yes to everything.

24:55

Well that's a hard lesson, by

24:57

the way, no matter what you do where

24:59

you are, you know that you

25:01

learned to say no to, especially

25:04

with people that don't make you feel good. Like

25:06

I used to accept every invitation. Oh,

25:08

yes, yes, me too. Of course I wanted,

25:10

so I'm going to show up. And it wasn't

25:13

until I married George that he went, what what are you

25:15

doing? You know, don't

25:17

be so easy and and he sort

25:19

of taught me. And his great thing

25:21

was, you know, so and so has invited

25:24

us to a barbecue. Pretend it's happening

25:26

right now, do you want to go? And it was

25:28

always no, you know what I mean, No, I

25:30

would rather sit be sitting here and reading a book

25:33

with you. And you

25:35

know, it was always saying yes for other people,

25:37

always, never for myself. Yea,

25:40

the same, exactly the same. And now that

25:42

I'm saying no to so many of these things.

25:44

And we don't do these things because we don't want

25:46

to. When we actually go to something, it

25:49

means something. And people who know

25:51

us that know that we're not out

25:53

all the time, but if we show up, it's

25:55

because we really care. I'm

25:58

thinking of like little things. A friend of mine,

26:00

Isabel Gillis, wrote a book called Cozy,

26:02

and it's all about things like little

26:05

things in life that you can find that are just cozy.

26:08

And one of the things she says is cozy

26:10

is making dinner in the summer in your bathing

26:12

suit. And I was thinking about cozy

26:14

things in your life and one of them is and

26:17

and correct me if I'm wrong. When you guys

26:20

have guests come to your cabbage,

26:22

you take a polaroid picture of them and hang

26:24

it on the wall, which is such a

26:26

lovely thing because it's not only

26:29

very artistic and creative, but I

26:32

love that, you know, you the guests sort of lives

26:34

on forever until until

26:37

they come back. Yeah. Yeah, and it it makes

26:39

it. It makes the cabbage that

26:41

much more special because people leave their imprint

26:43

behind and we want people to know that they leave

26:46

an imprint on us too. So, UM,

26:48

I have to go back to one thing when

26:51

you were talking about being

26:53

a child star and that whole thing of Hollywood.

26:56

Um, are you still friends with Rob Low?

26:58

I know you guys were engaged. No,

27:01

we we I don't. I talked

27:04

to Chadlow more than I talked to Roblow,

27:06

and that's not even very often. That

27:08

was just something I'm that I didn't know

27:10

about you, And when I read it, I went, look at that.

27:12

But he's he's not somebody though

27:15

that you you put in your documentary about child

27:17

stars. Well, no, because he

27:19

didn't really. He wasn't really a child

27:21

star. We got together. We were the same age

27:23

when we were seventeen, and he didn't do the outsiders

27:26

until we were eighteen and

27:28

I was still in little house in the prairie.

27:30

Then how old were you when you were engaged? Twenty

27:33

three? We've been together like six years when

27:35

we got engaged. Still twenty three is so

27:38

young, no kidding. But

27:40

I still managed to become a mother at twenty

27:42

four, So yes, you did. But that's

27:45

interesting because I was

27:47

engaged a few times, but

27:49

I only said yes because I didn't want to upset

27:51

them. I didn't want to hurt

27:54

their feelings, but I knew I was going to marry

27:56

them. You had

27:58

to learn how to say no. No.

28:00

Literally, you would have done it now.

28:03

If they asked you now, you would have said no. Oh

28:05

yes, I would have said, well I said no. Then. I

28:07

just was like, I didn't want to upset

28:09

them at the beginning. But I was thirty

28:12

six when I got married, and I feel like that's

28:14

kind of the right time. Actually. It is

28:17

like I tell my daughters to just you

28:19

know, you don't know what you want, and

28:21

I said, you know, there's a reason I

28:24

dated the French director, and

28:26

that, this and that, and now out in the world,

28:28

I don't look at any human being

28:30

go oh, I wonder what that's like. Yeah, me

28:32

too, same same, I just go oh,

28:34

I know what that is. Yeah, keep

28:37

that away from me. Yeah. I think

28:40

before I went into therapy, I put myself

28:42

in jeopardy all the time in so many

28:44

different ways, just by having no boundaries,

28:47

dating someone who didn't treat me right,

28:50

being engaged to someone who didn't treat me right, marrying

28:52

someone I probably should not have.

28:55

I'm glad I did because I have a gorgeous son out

28:57

of it. But I look back now and

28:59

go, oh my god, what was I doing? I was?

29:01

It was also dramatic and melodramatic

29:04

and needlessly crazy

29:06

and under the microscope and under

29:08

the microscope. But you know,

29:10

if you take any of it away, I don't get to

29:12

hear. So it was all worth

29:15

it. And I learned a lot, and

29:17

I tried to impart a lot of those lessons

29:19

onto the boys, and then now consequently

29:21

with the grandchildren, who

29:24

were predominantly female so

29:26

far. So I now have all these ladies around

29:28

me, which is that's so great, that's exciting.

29:30

Yeah, which is also making me much

29:33

more fierce politically, because

29:36

now we're talking about my granddaughters

29:38

and I don't I'm

29:40

not having it. I'm with your sister, I'm

29:42

with you. We're

29:46

going to take a short break and we'll be right back. Welcome

29:55

back. Speaking

29:59

of your granddaughters and what's happening.

30:02

What did you learn from your few

30:05

years in politics? Because I grew

30:07

up around it, you know, I grew up in d C. Everybody

30:09

was a political journalist. I can't believe

30:11

I ended up marrying George Stephanopolis. You

30:14

know, I thought I'd married Timothy Busfield,

30:16

but I was so granted.

30:18

It was during Watergate, but I found politics

30:21

so corrupt. I hated it. Everybody

30:24

in d C was having affairs. People were

30:26

breaking into the Watergate and I ran off

30:28

and went to n y U and then went to l A. And

30:31

so I'm fascinated by someone

30:33

like you who was out in Hollywood.

30:35

And then you had your congressional

30:39

run in sixteen for

30:41

a seat in Michigan as a Democrat

30:43

correct Michigan's eighth district,

30:45

And what are your takeaway

30:47

from that experience? You know, my

30:50

political activism, it was

30:52

always there to a certain extent. It was very

30:54

issue oriented. It was either I was

30:56

speaking out in behalf of abused

30:59

children or women's

31:01

rights, medical rights and rights to choose.

31:04

And then I became the president

31:06

of Screen Actors Guild, and while I was President

31:08

of Screen Actors Guild, I also got elected

31:11

to the f l C i O Executive Council,

31:13

and so I then got my feet really wet

31:16

in that political union world

31:18

and it was a whole other ballgame

31:21

and it really piqued my interests. So when

31:23

they came to me and asked me to run a TIM

31:26

and I talked about it quite a bit, I

31:28

definitely went into it naively. I

31:30

knew it was going to be hard. What I discovered

31:33

was I don't

31:35

like to do things where I have to fit into a mold.

31:38

And I the thing that really backed me

31:40

up, aside from people not

31:42

listening to my opinion necessarily or Tim's

31:45

opinions and just kind of shooting us down because this

31:47

is the way it's done, the thing that really

31:49

got me was when they sat me down and said,

31:51

look, we all know you're funny, and that's

31:53

great, but could you dial the humor back when

31:56

you're out amongst the people, because they

31:58

need to take you seriously as a politician.

32:01

That got me, and then the other thing that got

32:03

me was I had two wardrobes. I

32:06

had the candidates clothes and then I had my clothes,

32:09

and you know, a lot of nice Calvin clein

32:11

sheath dresses with a blazer in a sensible shoe

32:14

and my little linen overalls

32:16

and T shirts. And we

32:18

were having a fundraiser in a beer

32:20

garden in Detroit

32:23

with the head of the d Triple C

32:26

and the Michigan Democratic

32:28

candidates. So I had on jeans and a T

32:30

shirt and a blazer, albeit on Armani

32:32

blazer, but jeans and a T shirt and a blazer.

32:35

And my campaign manager came to pick me up

32:37

and said, you can't wear jeans and

32:39

I said, we're going to a beer garden. Yeah,

32:42

you should be in jean shorts. There sawdust

32:44

on the floor. He said, no, you've got to change.

32:47

And that's when I thought, oh, this

32:49

is just this is not going to go well. But I

32:51

put up with it, was willing to do it, and

32:53

then my body

32:55

gave out. My spine. My spine literally

32:58

left the building. My net went cab

33:00

Louie. I had to have surgery. The

33:02

recovery was like eight weeks. I

33:04

wouldn't have been able to do anything physically. Everybody

33:07

went, Nope, you can't. We're going to have to find

33:09

someone else. And I had just gotten

33:11

the nomination, the Democratic nomination.

33:13

So when was sixteen.

33:16

Now, can you imagine if I'd

33:18

gotten elected. I

33:21

can't either. I would have lost my mind.

33:24

Yes, I think you would have. I don't think I could

33:26

have operated in there in that atmosphere.

33:28

But I think what you have

33:31

held on too, and what led you in the first

33:33

place, was you have very

33:36

strong thoughts and ideas

33:38

and values that make you an

33:40

activist. And so that's still

33:42

there, right, The passion is still there.

33:45

Yeah, the passion is definitely

33:47

there. I disagree with your campaign manager.

33:49

I think if you are authentically yourself,

33:51

you would have done just as well, if not better.

33:54

Yeah. I think back then too, people were

33:56

still a little afraid and trying to keep

33:58

everyone in the cookie cutter a mole. And I think when Trump

34:01

got elected, all that sort of went out the window, and

34:03

now we have, you know, this sort of free for all

34:05

of all these people. But I think that

34:09

Tim and I because if there's anyone

34:11

who's maybe even more of a feminist and

34:13

a supporter of women's issues. It's him.

34:16

He and I feel like we're

34:18

both better boots on the ground at this point. Like

34:20

in twenty twenty,

34:22

we launched a podcast. We only

34:25

did it for a little while. We just did it through the election,

34:27

and it was really politically driven. We

34:29

were getting our opinions and ideas about politics

34:31

across and endorsing in talking about

34:33

the candidates we respected in the candidates we didn't.

34:36

But you know, it's just it got to be a

34:38

lot. That's not to say we won't

34:40

do it again. I don't know. We're talking now about

34:42

shooting some videos of a character I created when

34:44

we lived in Michigan, a gal named

34:46

Tammy Crip and Fister, and we may actually

34:49

get our points across using Tammy.

34:52

And you know, Tammy is a big well

34:54

she's she's from Minnesota originally,

34:56

but you know now she lives in Michigan, but Minnesota

34:59

is better, but she's out. She loves that Trump, So

35:01

she might actually make an appearance if

35:04

she needs to, to talk about just wonderful

35:07

things he's gonna do. Oh god, I

35:09

would love to hear from her. I'd like to hear a

35:11

nice, healthy debate with her. I could

35:13

have a nice debate when you could debate her. We

35:15

could do that. I would love to debate her.

35:17

We could make that happen. She doesn't think

35:19

that he might go to jail or she think Trump

35:22

has a shot. Oh no, he's not going

35:24

to a jail. He didn't do anything

35:26

wrong. It's all those other people. You know.

35:28

It was a big false flag. Oh,

35:32

I can't wait till damn he's ugash. Yeah,

35:35

she's fun. What are your five

35:37

favorite things in life right now that

35:39

just bring you happiness and

35:41

bliss besides your husband and your

35:43

kids. Oh, come on, it was going to be my

35:45

first. I know, I know that's

35:48

a given. Your dog, Well,

35:50

I love her. Yeah, she's really Our

35:52

neighbors actually told us this about her in their right.

35:54

She's a good citizen. She's a good citizen.

35:57

She really is a good citizen. I

35:59

mean, this is the dog who on her own

36:02

when she walks in New York City. Nobody told

36:04

her to do this. She peas on the sidewalk,

36:06

she poops in the gutter. She's

36:09

a good citizen. But do you still

36:11

pick it up in the gutter? Oh? Yeah, because we're

36:13

also good citizens. I'm just making

36:15

sure she is owned by

36:19

so the dog. I love. I

36:21

love my home. I

36:24

love life up there. I love

36:26

knitting and cross stitching

36:29

in my recliner. Oh, by the

36:31

way, the recliner is something

36:34

that you fought against that your husband

36:36

Timothy wanted to buy. And by the way,

36:38

every heterosexual

36:41

couple, I feel has

36:43

this fight where the man

36:45

wants to bring in the ugliest chair

36:48

he could possibly find. I had that with George.

36:50

I threw it away, and you

36:53

now live in it. It's my chair. You curl

36:56

up in it, I do. I stretch

36:58

out and love that. I fall asleep open it.

37:00

I watched television in it. I clean

37:02

it with Murphy's oil. So

37:05

because it's I don't even know if it's like some

37:07

sort of crazy pleather, it's a

37:09

naga hide or something god awful.

37:11

So you treat it like it's your saddle a little

37:14

bit. It is. It's my Yes, it's

37:16

exactly right. So I'll add that to

37:18

the list. Actually, I love my recliner. Let

37:20

me tell you something that I'm looking forward to.

37:23

I want to get two recliners

37:25

so that Timothy or in my

37:27

case, George, has a recliner himself. And

37:31

cover it in that faux sheep

37:33

skin so it's not

37:36

only cozy and goes back and the

37:38

foot thing comes up, but you're in sheepskin,

37:40

so it is so cozy you'll

37:42

never get up, be like sleeping in an

37:44

ug. Yeah. So for

37:47

Timothy, because he can't hear us talking,

37:50

Yes, I think a Christmas gift or

37:52

a Hanukkah gift should be his

37:54

own recliner in sheepskin. You'll

37:56

thank me. This will be like the greatest

37:59

marriage tip I could give another

38:01

couple. This is true, and what would end up

38:03

happening is that he'd end up with the Naga

38:05

hyde and I'd end up Okay, just so you

38:07

know, no, No, the undercurrent is all about you taking

38:10

care of you. Just

38:13

who we're clear and your website,

38:15

your website of which you're curating

38:18

these incredibly crafty women,

38:20

crafty women in wonderful products at www

38:23

dot Modern Prairie dot com.

38:26

I'm on it. It's really fun and our

38:28

community is really growing, and I'm

38:30

really happy, really happy. I think women

38:32

are gonna love it. I think here

38:35

comes a big statement that it's just going

38:37

to cause problems, but I

38:39

think that our whole democratic system

38:42

is threatened by the idea of women coming

38:44

together because I think when women come

38:46

together, a lot of seismic

38:49

things happen. And I think even

38:51

on a website, when women come

38:53

together with their own creativity,

38:55

it's powerful too. So I

38:57

think collectively, the more times we can

38:59

to grab each other's hand, it's

39:01

an incredibly powerful thing. Look,

39:04

I'm just looking at the picture of you guys on

39:06

the beach walking for um

39:09

was on Instagram joyful Heart for

39:11

joyful Heart, and I did a play reading for Joyful

39:13

Heart gosh years ago here in the city,

39:16

and just that alone, that was

39:18

a group of women walking for something

39:21

they truly believed in and supported and

39:23

supporting one another, and it it is. It's

39:26

very powerful, and you can't When you join women

39:28

together like that, the most extraordinary things

39:30

get done. Absolutely, just

39:32

talking to you, Melissa, I

39:34

am empowered and happy and you've brought

39:36

me good feelings and

39:39

I feel enlightened and

39:41

happy. So thank you. So

39:46

before I let you go. In my

39:48

podcast, go ask Alli, I like to turn

39:50

the tables a little bit so it's not just me asking

39:53

a bunch of questions and say, you

39:55

get to ask me a question about anything. Oh

39:57

gosh, Okay, so many

40:00

dumb questions that went through my head, like just

40:02

do something stupid like panties or a song or

40:04

a big pick one or something. But then I realized,

40:07

there's actually a real question I want to ask you.

40:10

Okay. One of my favorite movies is

40:12

It's Complicated. But one of my favorite

40:15

or two of my favorite scenes are the

40:17

ladies together scenes. Again,

40:21

here we are with women talking with women and

40:23

empowering women, and you had a female director. I

40:25

just like a dumb general question.

40:27

What was it like? Did you have the best time

40:30

with them? Was it a dreamy

40:32

set or was it weird or what? Yes?

40:34

And I'm glad you picked that because

40:37

I would be honest about anything. And

40:39

this was a good one because you

40:41

know, I've been on sets before that weren't friendly,

40:44

and you know, and you have to be funny and you're

40:46

calling your agent crying. So this

40:49

was so good. And I was so

40:51

intimidated, you know, because it was a Nancy

40:53

Myer's film, it was Meryl Streep, Alec

40:56

Baldwin. It's one of those you don't sleep

40:58

two nights before the gig. So

41:01

I came on set and the first thing

41:03

we shot was the dinner scene, and

41:06

it was if I had known them my whole life. And

41:09

we laughed, and I

41:11

was, of course eating the food because

41:13

it was so Nancy had really

41:15

delicious, amazing food always

41:18

on set, even a tray

41:20

of gooey French cheeses that were off

41:22

to the side that you don't even saw on camera

41:25

but you could smell. And at one point

41:27

Meryl said, Alie, if you keep taking a bite,

41:30

you're gonna have to keep eating because Nancy is going to

41:32

do like forty takes. And

41:35

so when Nancy would yell cut, it

41:37

wasn't like we would all disperse and go to our

41:39

trailers. We would sit in

41:42

the sofas and we would talk about

41:44

Bernie made off. We would exchange carrot

41:46

cake recipes. Rita

41:49

was constantly having hot flashes, so

41:51

we would all like wave magazines

41:53

at her. And it was you

41:56

know, I think the reason that it felt good

41:58

watching it was because it was is authentically

42:02

nice and cozy, and it's everything

42:04

you would hope it to be. So it

42:07

was the best experience. I hated leaving

42:09

the set at night, and I

42:12

just love all the women that I got to

42:14

do it with. Oh that's so cool, and

42:16

and I gotta follow up. I can't. I can't

42:18

just let it go. You can't follow off. How much

42:20

of it was improv and how much of

42:22

it was written? Would you say, like roughly percentage

42:24

wise? I would say it was all scripted, all

42:27

scripted. Yes, it was all scripted,

42:30

Nancy, she sticks to the script. I

42:32

mean I played kind of as much as I could.

42:34

But it was a ball. It was absolutely

42:37

a ball. Oh my gosh, Melissa, this was

42:39

so great. This was not work at all. This was

42:41

just fun and this was

42:44

my podcast. I want to be friends with Melissa Gilbert.

42:46

Did I succeed? You did? I'm seriously

42:48

want to come clamming. I'm a serious

42:52

well and then I'm coming upstate

42:54

because there's a lot of stuff upstate I

42:56

love to do, so absolutely.

42:59

I like Auntie king up there, I like Raspberry

43:01

picking up there, like the whole Upstate

43:04

scene. And I have such

43:07

awe and respect for you, and I can't wait to

43:09

take you clambing. Really, we're holding you to

43:11

it. Bring your wellies. I will and the dog.

43:13

Oh yeah, no, we won't be able to get her out of the water, but yes,

43:16

I'll bring her. I love it. Thank

43:19

you for listening to Go Ask Ali. I

43:21

might be crazy, but I think Melissa Gilbert's

43:24

next show is coming off the Prairie

43:26

and clamming with Ali. I don't know, but it

43:28

smells like a hit. If

43:31

you would like to know more about Melissa, you can

43:33

follow her on Instagram at Melissa

43:35

Gilbert Official. You got to read her

43:37

book Back to the Prairie Home

43:39

Remade a Life Rediscovered, and

43:42

her website, which I can't wait to click onto,

43:44

is Modern Prairie dot com.

43:48

Be sure to subscribe, rate and review

43:50

the podcast, and follow me on social media

43:52

on Twitter at Ali E Wentworth and

43:55

on Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth.

43:57

Now. If you'd like to ask me a question or suggest

44:00

a guest or topic, I'd love to hear from you,

44:02

and there's a bunch of ways you can do it. You can call

44:04

or text me at three to three three four

44:07

six three six, or you can email

44:09

a voice memo right from your phone to Go Ask

44:11

Gali podcast at gmail dot com.

44:14

If you leave a question, you might hear it. I'm

44:16

Go Ask Gali. Go

44:23

Ask Gali is a production of Shonda land

44:25

Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio.

44:28

For more podcasts from Shonda Land Audio,

44:31

visit the I heart Radio app, Apple

44:33

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44:35

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