0:00

Hey, it's Jay Keith. And it's Helen.

0:02

And the 2023 Listener Tournament is here. If

0:05

you registered for our Go Fact Yourself Tournament

0:08

with a chance to win a slot as a guest on an

0:10

upcoming show, you should have received information

0:12

and a link to round one in your email. If

0:14

you didn't, get in touch with us. Entries are due

0:17

by August 31st. We've

0:18

got some more guests to announce for upcoming

0:20

live audience shows in the Los Angeles

0:23

area. Yeah, on Saturday, August 12th

0:25

at 7 p.m. at LAist Crawford

0:27

Family Forum, we have Alex Borstein versus

0:29

Eggo Wotem.

0:30

Woo-hoo. Sunday, August

0:33

20th at 7 p.m. at the Center for

0:35

Inquiry West, Glozell versus

0:37

Ed Begley Jr. Then

0:38

on Sunday, September 10th at 7 p.m. at

0:41

the Center for Inquiry West, Allison Tolman

0:43

versus Mike Schmidt. Friday,

0:44

October 6th at 7 p.m.

0:47

at Barnes & Noble at The Grove, Keegan

0:49

Michael Key versus El-Key.

0:51

And finally, Saturday, December 2nd at 7 p.m. at

0:54

LAist Crawford Family Forum with guests

0:56

to be announced. You can get all the latest info

0:58

on guests and tickets at our website,

1:00

gofactyourpod.com. Well,

1:02

Helen, what if people want to see you outside of the Los Angeles

1:05

area? Come see me do stand-up.

1:07

I will be at Hyenas in Dallas,

1:10

August 25th and 26th.

1:12

Yay. Hey, let's get to this new episode,

1:14

Helen. Take it away, Helen Hong. And

1:17

thank you, yes, I am feeling a little

1:19

better. Yay.

1:27

Are you a real know-it-all? Do

1:29

you annoy your family by shouting

1:31

the answers while watching Jeopardy? Do

1:33

you drive people crazy when you

1:36

start a sentence with, well, actually.

1:39

Well, guess what? You can go

1:42

fact yourself. Hi,

1:44

everyone. Welcome to Go Fact Yourself,

1:47

the show where we quiz the smartest people

1:49

we know and find out why they love

1:51

what they love. I'm Helen

1:53

Hong. And now, recording

1:55

remotely from our homes in Los Angeles, here's

1:58

our moderator, J. Keith Van Snel.

1:59

Stratton. Thank you so much, Helen. Wonderful to

2:02

see you. Nice to see you, Jakey. Now, some

2:04

of our listeners will know that you had to miss a show a few

2:06

episodes ago because you were ill and people

2:08

have been asking, how are you doing? Are you all

2:10

better? I

2:11

am not all better. No.

2:13

Unbelievable. These baby

2:15

daycare diseases just can't stop,

2:17

won't stop. So when I

2:19

missed the show, tragically, I had

2:22

a like a respiratory infection, which

2:24

has now become a sinus infection,

2:28

which is an antibiotic resistant

2:30

sinus infection that I've had for four

2:32

weeks and counting.

2:33

Oh no, that's terrible. I used

2:35

to get sinus infections a few times a year, especially

2:37

when I was traveling a lot. And yeah, there

2:39

was nothing to do except take antibiotics. And

2:42

if I couldn't do that, I don't know what I would have done. I would

2:43

have just suffered. I took the antibiotics.

2:45

I took 10 days of antibiotics. I felt

2:48

sort of better. And then I stopped the antibiotics

2:50

and all my symptoms came back. So I have

2:53

a super bug inside my face.

2:54

Wow. Thank you. Congratulations.

2:57

Yeah. Now, have you done the thing where

2:59

they have gotten scans and things where they

3:01

stick cameras up you and all that stuff?

3:02

Yes. I got a CT

3:05

scan of my sinuses and you

3:07

know, the very complicated medical term

3:09

was you got mucus up there. Yeah.

3:11

And I was

3:12

like, wow. Wow. Thank you. How

3:14

did that get there? Thank you, modern medicine.

3:17

Yeah. And so I actually have

3:19

an appointment to see an ear, nose and throat

3:21

specialist tomorrow. Apparently

3:24

he's going to stick a camera up my nose, which I

3:26

don't, it doesn't sound like a fun

3:27

time. Yeah. I've done that once before.

3:30

And I have one recommendation if I may, don't

3:32

watch. I

3:34

know you love seeing yourself on TV, but

3:36

Helen, you know, do what you want. Not

3:39

in that way. Yeah. I did. I did. I did

3:41

not enjoy that. Well, I'm sure I speak for all of our listeners

3:43

when I say good luck with that. And we hope that you find

3:45

a solution to that. And for now, today and go fact

3:47

yourself, two guests will compete to answer questions

3:49

about facts. They know facts. They may not know. And frankly,

3:52

facts. They should know. Plus we'll meet actual

3:54

experts on two very different topics. And

3:56

finally, we're declared one of our guests,

3:57

the winner of today's show. Let's get started.

4:00

and meet today's guests, Helen, who is up first.

4:02

She is a number one New York Times

4:04

bestselling author whose TV writing

4:07

on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

4:09

has won her multiple Emmy's and

4:11

Peabody Awards. It's Jill Twiss.

4:13

Hello, Jill Twiss. Hello. So

4:16

wonderful to meet you. In addition, of course, to

4:18

Last Week Tonight, people have heard your writing on

4:20

the Amber Ruffin show and you've also published multiple

4:23

children's picture books, which we'll talk about in a moment.

4:25

I was very surprising, delighted to learn that not

4:28

only was Last Week Tonight the first late night

4:30

writing gig that you got, you actually didn't have an agent

4:32

at the time.

4:32

No, I didn't have an agent until

4:36

six years after I started at Last Week

4:38

Tonight. Oh, God. Yeah, girl, keep

4:40

that money. That was exactly it.

4:43

First of all, I was like, you wouldn't talk to me before.

4:46

So now I'm supposed to give you my

4:48

money. But I have

4:50

lovely agents now. But however

4:52

did you get that gig without an agent? I mean,

4:54

that's a very competitive gig. It

4:57

was a series of very weird events

4:59

that started with a job I had

5:01

as an SAT tutor. Someone's

5:04

parents worked for

5:06

David Letterman. And thank goodness that

5:09

kid did well in the SAT. I'm

5:12

not making this up. I begged her, could

5:15

I submit a packet? And she said,

5:18

sure, you don't want to work there, but

5:19

sure. And years later,

5:22

someone asked someone, who do you

5:24

think should be writing for TV? But isn't.

5:27

And they gave them my name. And

5:29

I got to submit a packet. That

5:31

was just an insane, very

5:33

long series of events.

5:35

Now your first children's book kind of

5:37

started as a joke on Last Week Tonight.

5:39

And that was something that you pitched and then actually got to

5:41

write. For those who don't know, tell us about how Marlon

5:44

Bundo came to be.

5:44

When I was writing at Last Week Tonight, I

5:47

was personally obsessed with

5:49

the Instagram account of the actual

5:52

bunny, Marlon Bundo, which

5:54

for people, if they don't know, it's

5:56

the bunny of Mike Pence,

5:58

who was the vice president at the time.

5:59

daughter. One day I got a press

6:02

release that said that the

6:04

Pences were writing a book for Marlon Bundo

6:07

and I was irrationally

6:09

angry.

6:10

I was like, I

6:12

should get to write that book. Which is insane

6:14

because A, I don't own the bunny, and

6:16

B, I have never written a book. But

6:19

I wrote up a pitch that said basically I

6:21

should get to write that book and my boss John

6:23

Oliver said, okay.

6:25

We had a quick meeting that was just,

6:28

should we make it a real children's book or like

6:30

an adult children's book? And we decided,

6:32

why not write a real children's book

6:35

that has heart and of course has

6:38

what Mike Pence would hate the most, which was

6:40

two gay bunnies getting married.

6:43

I went back and I wrote

6:45

the book and I thought he's going to look at

6:48

it and that'll be the end of that. But

6:50

my boss looked at it and said, great, let's publish

6:53

that book. And we did.

6:55

And it went to number one almost immediately

6:57

after it was announced on the show. What

6:59

was it like to discover that people were buying

7:02

and loving the book, not just as a joke,

7:04

they really enjoyed it.

7:05

It was insane. I think we

7:07

had tried to plan a little

7:09

bit for what the amount of books might

7:11

sell. And I think it's fair to say we

7:14

were very, very wrong. In the

7:17

best way. In the best way.

7:19

Yes, they had to print more books. And I

7:21

should say that all the money for the books went

7:24

to two charities, the Trevor Project

7:26

and AIDS United. Fantastic.

7:29

I have a two year old's nephew and I am

7:31

going out and getting this book immediately

7:33

for nephew. Oh, I love it so much.

7:35

You've gone on to write some other children's books

7:37

that teach some wonderful lessons about being in

7:39

a larger world. Those include The Someone New, which

7:41

deals actually with immigration. Everyone Gets

7:43

a Say with deals with voting and Major

7:46

Makes History, which is about the first shelter dog

7:48

to be in the White House. Do you know

7:50

what your next children's book project is going to be?

7:52

I do not know. I just want to say

7:54

that the major book came

7:57

out just at the time that we found out

7:59

that major.

7:59

Biden was biting some members

8:02

of the theater. I was going to wonder. It's

8:04

going to be a sequel called Major Makes Injuries. I

8:09

have so much empathy for Major, who

8:11

is a dog that moved to a new place and

8:13

just freaked out. But

8:16

no, I don't know what my next children's book is going to

8:18

be. I want to write one. I'm

8:21

obsessed with penguins and I very much want

8:23

to write one about a penguin who

8:25

has never seen colors. So

8:28

I think that's where I'm going next. A colorblind

8:30

penguin? I'm salivating.

8:33

His nephew is going to die.

8:34

All right. Well, you've already got one book

8:36

sale. I'm sure that's how it works in selling

8:39

a book. Excellent. Well, we're so happy that

8:41

you joined us. Jill Twiss, everybody.

8:43

Helen, again, who will Jill be competing? He

8:45

is a comedian who hosts the podcasts

8:48

The Fawcett and Broccoli and Ice Cream

8:51

and whose new comedy special, Live from

8:53

the Universe, is available now. It's

8:55

Mike Kaplan. Hi,

8:57

Mike. Hey. Thank you so

8:59

much for having me. Oh, it's our pleasure. Now, many people

9:01

have been introduced to you by the times you got

9:03

pretty far on two different competition shows on

9:05

television. One of them was Last Comic Standing. The

9:07

other was America's Got Talent. What were those

9:09

experiences like and how did they compare? Last

9:12

Comic Standing was probably the first time that

9:14

after that, people

9:17

came to see me because they knew

9:20

me. Before that, people

9:22

were coming to see

9:24

comedian in brackets. One

9:27

time I was performing at a college,

9:30

I think, in the late 2000s, pre-2010. 2010 is

9:37

when I did Last Comic Standing. I

9:39

remember seeing a big banner at the school

9:41

that said, Free Chicken Wings and

9:44

Comedian. That

9:47

was pre-Last Comic Standing. Post-Last

9:49

Comic Standing, I would

9:51

rate higher than the Chicken Wings.

9:54

Wow.

9:54

At least it was Chicken

9:57

Wings, Mike. I've gotten second

9:59

billing to pizza. Well, I

10:01

appreciate that, though I also am

10:03

and have been for the entirety of my comedy

10:05

career, vegan. Look how long I went

10:07

without telling you so. Now,

10:11

I think I have enough pull to get them

10:13

to leave it off the sign. But

10:17

doing Last Comic Standing was a fantastic

10:20

opportunity. I met so many wonderful comedians

10:23

and it was a show that, you know, it was a competition

10:25

technically, but just it was an opportunity

10:27

for so many comedians to be on primetime

10:29

television. And like, you know, people

10:32

like Gary Gullman and Todd Glass

10:34

and Kathleen Madigan and, you know, Nikki

10:36

Glaser and Amy Schumer.

10:39

Absolutely. Like just it was I'm so

10:41

glad that it existed and that I got

10:43

to do it and that I got as far as I did and

10:45

that it really helped me have

10:47

the career that I have. And then

10:50

on America's Got Talent, I was just

10:52

thrilled enough to be able to make

10:54

it past various rounds where you're sometimes

10:57

competing with dogs and like

11:00

children who are cute. Like, am I funnier

11:03

than that child is cute? So

11:05

they're weird. It's a strange

11:07

thing. I'm glad that I don't have to do any

11:10

other competitions. Happy to be here on

11:12

this competition podcast. Oh, wait, one more.

11:14

One last competition for you. This is the

11:16

one, the Be All, End All. You've

11:19

got a new show that you're working on now that you're planning on

11:21

bringing to the Edinburgh Fringe Fest. You've

11:23

been there before. How do those audiences compare

11:25

to the US audiences that are just there to see a stand

11:28

up show and or get vegan wings? I

11:30

think similar to doing stand up

11:32

in the United States, like there are different

11:35

audiences every night, you know, but there

11:37

it's they're from potentially

11:39

all over the world. So it's it's

11:41

nice to get the opportunity to find

11:43

out, you know, nobody's comedy is

11:46

universal. Like if people don't speak the

11:48

language that you speak, they might not understand

11:50

the comedy unless it's, you know,

11:52

I don't know, a mime or Jim Carrey. I

11:55

feel like relate to everyone.

11:57

Robin Williams for all. But yeah, so yeah.

11:59

I'm really excited to bring this new show, which is called

12:02

Imperfect with a capital I and

12:04

a capital P, so it also looks like I'm perfect,

12:07

but in an imperfect way. It's about

12:10

my life, my relationship, and growth

12:12

as a human being that I have been experiencing

12:15

and continue to do for as yet,

12:18

I am still not all the way there.

12:20

Maybe I am, I don't know who can say, maybe this is the self-relief.

12:23

Let's see how you do on the quiz, because that really is the determination

12:26

of someone's self-actualization, how they do in a

12:28

trivia quiz, yeah.

12:29

In that show, I've read that part of it is you

12:32

offering advice to your past self. Can

12:34

you give an example of advice that you wish you

12:36

had had when you were younger?

12:37

You know, that is absolutely

12:40

true, and I don't know if I

12:43

would have even listened to the advice when

12:45

I was younger. So I guess

12:48

one piece of advice that I would give my past self,

12:50

that I give my present self as

12:52

much as possible all the time is to

12:55

listen more, to listen more and

12:57

listen better. I read a book recently

12:59

called You're Not Listening that my girlfriend

13:02

recommended to me for some reason. Yeah.

13:05

And we recommend to everyone,

13:07

we could all be better listeners, says

13:10

a man who talks for a living, and

13:13

it's something I'm working on, and as such,

13:15

I'll leave it there. Excellent, well, I

13:17

hear what you're saying, and I thank

13:19

you, and thank you so much for being here. Mike Kaplan,

13:22

everyone.

13:22

Thank you. All right, we ask each of you to provide

13:25

us with a few topics outside your field of work

13:27

in which you feel you have some expertise. Jill,

13:29

you said you know and love the TV show, The Good

13:32

Place, the musical, the 25th annual

13:34

Putnam County Spelling Bee, and the

13:36

SATs. Whereas Mike, you said you know

13:38

a lot about linguistics, psychedelics,

13:41

and Spider-Man. Later on, we're gonna ask

13:43

each of you some in-depth trivia questions about

13:45

one of those topics, but first, we're gonna get your thoughts

13:47

on something you might know nothing about. It's

13:49

time to split some hairs with our what's the difference round.

13:52

We'll have one question

13:52

for each of you, each with up to two points. If

13:55

either of you gives an incorrect or incomplete answer,

13:57

the other person has a chance to steal. Your

13:59

topic today.

13:59

preaching to the choir. First up

14:02

is Jill with preaching. Jill, while you

14:04

might find either of them working in front of a choir,

14:06

what's the difference between a preacher and

14:09

a pastor? A preacher and a

14:11

pastor.

14:11

I'm gonna say that a preacher is

14:14

primarily Baptist. And

14:16

a pastor comes from

14:19

the Episcopalian sector.

14:22

The Episcopalian sector. All

14:24

right, well, we've got Jill's answer. We don't know yet if she's

14:26

entirely correct. Mike, if you don't think she's

14:28

got it just right, you can steal anything you wanna change

14:30

or add. I will say that I

14:32

believe it is a, that there's maybe a set

14:35

subset relationship. That preacher

14:37

is a more general term which could be

14:39

applied to numerous religions

14:41

or faith traditions. And that a pastor

14:44

is actually, I would say a type of a preacher. And

14:46

a pastor has specific credentials.

14:49

Like they, I think that a pastor would

14:51

have to go

14:52

to school to become a pastor,

14:54

to get some sort of training or certification. And

14:56

that a preacher, anybody could become

14:59

a preacher and you don't need any specific training. All

15:01

right, well, praise the Lord. This segment is almost

15:04

over. Let's go to Helen Hong at the judges table

15:06

for the facts.

15:06

Here are the facts. A

15:09

preacher is someone who speaks

15:11

in front of a crowd, delivering a

15:13

sermon or teaching a religious lesson.

15:16

And that's all it takes. If you preach,

15:18

you're a preacher. A pastor

15:20

can also preach, but also has

15:23

pastoral duties. Whether

15:25

it's counseling members of the flock, raising

15:28

money to keep the doors open or performing

15:30

administrative duties, being a pastor

15:33

is a lot more work than being a preacher.

15:35

That's right. Now pastors also tend to stay

15:37

in one place for a long period of time while

15:39

preachers might move from town to town, delivering

15:41

a sermon in different churches or even in tents.

15:44

And some of those sermons are really intense, am I

15:46

right?

15:47

Can't believe I said that in front of

15:49

a Emmy winning comedy writer. Helen, how did our

15:51

guests do? Neither of you got

15:53

it exactly right. Mike, I'm tempted

15:56

to give you half a point because you did say

15:58

pastor.

15:59

has credentials or training or certification, which

16:02

is not quite correct, but sort

16:04

of in the vein of doing more

16:06

than just preaching. In the spirit

16:09

of Christ, perhaps. Oh, shoot.

16:12

Ah, see what you did there. That might get him an

16:14

extra half point, I don't know, Helen. Yeah,

16:17

so Mike, I think I'm gonna give you half a point for that. All

16:19

right. Thank you. Half a point for Mike. All

16:21

right, up next in preaching to the choir is Mike

16:23

with choir. Mike, your question comes from

16:25

a listener. Who is it, Helen?

16:27

I will let them tell you themselves

16:29

because we have a listener recording. Listeners,

16:32

if you'd like to submit a suggestion for our

16:34

What's the Difference round, go to gofactyourpod.com

16:38

and click on Get Involved. Okay,

16:41

play it.

16:41

Hi, J. Keith, Helen,

16:43

and esteemed guests. This is Gary

16:45

Roland from Roswell, Georgia. My

16:48

question for What's the Difference is, while

16:50

both might accompany a pastor or

16:52

a preacher, what's the difference

16:54

between a choir and a chorus,

16:57

a choir

16:58

and a chorus? Love the show. Good

17:01

luck and thanks. All right,

17:03

thank you so much, Gary. Mike, you heard him. What

17:05

is the difference between a choir and a chorus?

17:07

I have these credentials to help

17:10

me out here is both of my parents were

17:12

music teachers when I was growing

17:15

up. And I have played the violin

17:18

since I was four years old and

17:20

actually got into comedy via

17:22

the guitar. I was an aspiring

17:25

singer-songwriter myself. I

17:28

was a music

17:28

counselor at a summer

17:31

camp and I led an

17:33

acapella group of young

17:35

teenagers for several years while I

17:37

was there. And this is all to say that most

17:40

of my training is instrumental, but,

17:43

and that also up until this point,

17:45

I would have said that a chorus and

17:48

a choir were pretty close to

17:50

synonymous. But I will say

17:52

that the difference between a chorus

17:55

and a choir is that a chorus is bigger.

17:57

Wow, long way to go to get a chorus.

17:59

is bigger, but we appreciate that answer and

18:02

those credentials. All right, we've got Mike's answer,

18:04

don't know yet if he's entirely correct. Jill, anything

18:06

you'd like to change your ad?

18:07

I'm going to say that

18:10

the chorus is the generic term

18:12

and a choir is a more

18:15

specific subset

18:16

that has to have a soprano

18:19

alto tenor bass. All right,

18:21

and that shrug of confidence leads

18:24

us in. Leads us out of this segment. I

18:26

said words. You did say words. All

18:29

right, well, we are required to end this

18:31

segment. Let's go to Helen Hong at the judges table

18:33

for the facts. Ha ha, see you, Jake

18:35

Heath. Thank you.

18:36

Here are the facts. A choir

18:39

is a group of singers. A

18:41

chorus is a group of singers that

18:43

might also include dancers

18:45

and actors, as in the chorus of

18:48

a Broadway musical or an opera. Choruses

18:51

date back to ancient Greek drama where

18:53

the chorus spoke in unison, but also

18:56

sang and danced.

18:57

That's right, many large churches have

18:59

a special location for the choir called a

19:01

choir, which is also the name for part of

19:03

a pipe organ. And when spelled Q-U-I-R-E

19:06

is also a quantity of printed paper.

19:09

So get ready, a member of a choir

19:11

can sing with a choir, in a choir,

19:14

from a choir, accompanied by a choir.

19:16

And now I must inquire, Helen, how did our guest do?

19:19

I

19:19

don't think either one of you got it. I'd like

19:21

to just briefly push

19:23

back on this distinction because

19:26

I think that the definition of chorus as

19:29

it appears here is not

19:31

the kind of chorus that would accompany,

19:35

would be singing in front of a pastor or

19:38

in a church if there's acting. Like

19:40

I don't think there's ever acting in the

19:42

chorus in a church.

19:44

Helen, do I get half a point for

19:46

not pushing that? I'm

19:50

tempted, Jill. I'm tempted.

19:53

Are you moved by Mike's argument? Okay, fair

19:55

enough. technical

20:00

definitions, dictionary definitions

20:03

here. Not,

20:06

you know, general. Not the way that people actually

20:09

use the words. Yeah. Helen,

20:11

what is our score at the end of that round? At the end

20:13

of that round, Jill Twist has zero points

20:15

and Mike Kaplan has half a point. Those scores

20:17

are bound to change as they move on to questions about topics

20:20

our guests have chosen for themselves. That's all up ahead

20:22

when we come back on Go Fact Yourself.

20:28

Helen, you know, NASA has inspired so many

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gross odors are gross. Helen,

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the fine people at Miracle-Maid were kind enough to send

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have to tell you, I put them on for the first week and I liked

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Thank you, NASA, and thank

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Miracle Maid. Hi,

22:37

everyone. I'm Laura House. And

22:39

I'm Annabelle Gerwich, and sometimes it

22:41

feels like the whole world is a dumpster fire.

22:44

Right? There's too much to worry about. That's

22:46

why we make tiny victories. It's a 15-minute

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So join us in not freaking out

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Maximum Fun. Whew! It's a tiny

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victory just to make a network promo.

23:18

Honestly. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm

23:21

sorry. I'm sorry. Welcome

23:24

back to

23:25

Go Fact Yourself with our guests

23:27

Jill Twiss and Mike Kaplan. Once

23:30

again, here's J. Keith Van Stratton.

23:31

Thank you so much, Helen. All right, Jill, of

23:33

your many interests, you told us that you know and love

23:35

the TV show The Good Place, the musical,

23:38

the 25th annual Putnam County Spelling

23:40

Bee, and the SATs. Let's

23:43

find out a little bit more about each of those. First, tell

23:45

us what The Good Place means to you.

23:47

The Good Place came out in 2016,

23:51

which was either 400 years ago or 30 seconds ago. I

23:55

honestly don't know. And The Good Place

23:58

was a show about my greatest. fantasy,

24:01

which is that

24:02

people that are bad

24:05

want to get better. I

24:09

remember those days. I think

24:11

it got me through some times. Fantasy

24:14

indeed. All right. Next,

24:16

tell us what the musical, the 25th annual Putnam

24:18

County Spelling Bee, means to you. Okay.

24:21

First of all, I love musicals. And second of all,

24:24

I love spelling bees. I actually write

24:26

for the Nashville Spelling Bee every year. Those

24:29

are my two favorite things. Wait,

24:31

you write for the National Spelling Bee?

24:33

Meaning you write questions? I do. I

24:36

write sentences. I write funny

24:39

sentences for, you

24:41

know, when they say, can you use a sentence? They

24:44

can. And sometimes it's funny. Oh, my God,

24:46

I didn't know that was a job. And now I need

24:48

to do this job.

24:49

Are you hiring, Jill? Not yet. But

24:51

that's exactly how I got the job. I said,

24:54

I didn't know this was a job, but let me

24:56

email them. Very cool. Oh, yeah. So if

24:58

you love musicals and you love spelling bees, this

25:00

is the show for you. This is for me. And

25:02

it was a show that I saw, I think, three

25:04

times in a time when I could not

25:07

afford to see a Broadway show. And

25:09

I think it also just taught me that

25:11

there were like joke jokes. A

25:13

person who loves comedy. I was

25:15

super excited to see a show that

25:17

had the kind of jokes that I

25:20

love.

25:20

Oh, neat. All right. And then finally,

25:22

tell us why you know and love the SATs.

25:25

When I first moved to New York City, I tried

25:27

to wait tables because that's what I thought you

25:29

do. And I was so bad

25:31

at it that in order

25:34

to fund what would eventually be my

25:36

comedy writing career, I had to

25:38

get a job tutoring standardized

25:40

tests. And I taught the LSATs

25:43

and I taught the SATs and it took a

25:45

real long time for me to make a living

25:47

as a comedy writer. So I taught the

25:50

SATs for like eight or nine years.

25:52

Wow. That is such a funny and

25:54

fun nerd origin

25:57

story. I really

25:59

thought I was. I was gonna be a waiter in New

26:01

York and I cannot tell you how

26:03

much I could not do it. Why

26:05

were you so bad at being a waiter? I was a great

26:08

Midwestern waiter in Custer, South

26:10

Dakota where my family is. I was great because

26:12

you don't have to get things right. You just

26:15

be really nice. And they sort

26:17

of tip you based on like, would

26:19

this girl ever be able to get another job?

26:22

Can I say, I love that

26:24

you're like, for eight or nine years,

26:27

I just was grinding, teaching

26:29

for the SATs. But finally,

26:32

I don't have to do that anymore. And

26:34

I work for the spelling bee. You

26:37

know what? Everybody

26:39

has a different dream, Mike. All

26:42

right. Well, to summarize, Jill, you said, you know and love

26:44

the TV show, The Good Place, the musical, the

26:46

25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee and

26:48

the SATs. Today we're gonna quiz you about

26:51

the 25th annual Putnam County Spelling

26:53

Bee. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Excellent.

26:56

I understand in addition to seeing it, you actually were in a production.

26:59

Yes, I was in a summer stock

27:01

production of this show in

27:03

which I'm not making this up. Our musical director

27:06

snuck out in the middle of the night and

27:09

left.

27:09

Wow. Because

27:13

they had a better gig or they weren't,

27:15

they didn't wanna be associated with it anymore or?

27:17

Honestly, I think the score was

27:20

really hard to play. Okay, they weren't

27:22

good at it. He was a great piano player in the

27:24

Midwest. Oh,

27:27

bless his heart. What role did

27:29

you play in the show? I played Logan. Oh,

27:32

that's a fun, juicy role, huh?

27:33

They're all fun, juicy roles, but

27:36

she was a role that got to say

27:38

a different monologue every night. So it

27:40

was my first accidental foray

27:42

into the world of comedy writing. Oh,

27:44

interesting. Well, just ahead, we're gonna list

27:46

the help of a bona fide expert in your topic

27:48

with an expert level question worth up to three points.

27:51

But before that, to let you show your love, here are five

27:53

trivia questions about the topic each worth

27:55

one point. If you want it, you're allowed to hint for any

27:57

two of these five questions. Now, Mike,

27:59

do list.

27:59

because if Jill answers incorrectly, you can steal.

28:02

Mike, by the way, how much do you know about the 25th annual

28:04

Putnam County Spelling Bee musical? Well,

28:07

like Jill, I also love musicals

28:09

and I also love spelling bees. And

28:12

unlike Jill, I do not know

28:14

anything

28:14

about this music. Oh, okay, we were so close.

28:17

We were so close. All right, well, we'll see if Jill gives you

28:19

that opportunity. Jill, here's

28:21

question number one.

28:23

Many people in the original production of Spelling Bee have

28:25

gone on to great acclaim, including

28:27

an actor who won a Tony just last year for

28:30

his performance in Take Me Out. Who

28:32

is this actor who is probably best known for

28:34

playing Mitchell on Modern Family?

28:36

Is it Jesse Tyler

28:38

Ferguson? Helen? That is correct. That is

28:40

correct for the point, very good. Fun fact,

28:43

the director of that Broadway production, James Lapine,

28:45

can be heard as the expert on the topic of Sunday

28:47

in the Park with George on episode 100

28:50

of Go Factor Self. Jesse Tyler Ferguson

28:52

can be heard on the audio book of A Day in

28:54

the Life of Marlon Bundo written by

28:56

Jill

28:57

Twiss. Here's

28:59

question number two. There are lots of

29:01

great characters in the show with great names, including

29:04

Leaf Coney Bear, Chip Tolentino,

29:06

William Barfay, and Marcy Park. There's

29:10

also another character who has been around for over 2,000

29:13

years and appears when Marcy asks for

29:15

a different word to spell. Who is that

29:17

character?

29:18

Oh my goodness, it is, I believe Jesus

29:20

Christ. Helen? That is correct. That is

29:22

correct. She believes in Jesus Christ, and that

29:24

is the answer. Hold on, I hope not.

29:29

I believe

29:29

in the musical, Jesus Christ. Okay,

29:31

great. All right, fun fact,

29:33

Jesus appears when Marcy says, dear Jesus,

29:36

can't you come up with a harder word than that? And

29:38

he does. All right, Jill, you're two for

29:40

two. Here's question number three.

29:42

Like all good spelling bees, contestants in

29:44

this show are competing for a prize provided

29:47

by the local sponsors, the Putnam Optometrists.

29:50

It's $200 toward the winner's future

29:53

education, but it's not in cash

29:55

or check. In what form is this prize

29:57

given? Can I have a hint? Helen,

29:59

how about that?

29:59

that first hint. According to NerdWallet,

30:02

this financial instrument is

30:04

a loan to the US government that's

30:07

issued by the US Treasury. Is

30:09

it a savings bond? Ellen? It is

30:11

a savings

30:11

bond. It is a savings bond. Very nice. You're

30:14

three for three. Fun fact,

30:16

a $200 series EE savings bond purchased

30:19

when the show opened in April of 2005 would be worth today $142.64. Oh

30:21

geez. Economics everyone. Economics.

30:25

Here's

30:29

question number four, Jill.

30:31

The show famously involved audience members

30:33

as participants in the Spelling Bee and

30:35

in New York it was not uncommon for those audience

30:37

members to be celebrities. For the show's

30:40

performance on the Tony Awards telecast

30:42

where it won two awards, what celebrity

30:44

participated? Okay,

30:45

I think I watched this I'm gonna

30:47

say 200 times. I believe

30:50

it was Al Sharpton. Ellen? That

30:52

is correct. It was the 200th time that did it. Yes,

30:55

fun fact, Al Sharpton's word was dengue,

30:57

as in dengue fever, which he spelled

31:00

D-A-K-N-I-A.

31:02

Not correct. Julie Andrews appeared on a

31:05

kids night performance of the show where she misspelled

31:07

supercalifragilisticexpialidocious,

31:11

which just seems perfect as well as mean. Alright

31:14

Jill, very nice. You have a chance to go five for five.

31:16

If you can get this question correct, you do still

31:18

have a hint available.

31:20

Nearly 20 years after its first workshop

31:22

performances, the 25th annual Putnam

31:24

County Spelling Bee was in the news just a few

31:26

months ago when an Ohio school board

31:28

canceled a production of the show due to

31:30

what the superintendent called vulgarity.

31:33

The board reversed the decision though after

31:35

the show's creators heard about the cancellation

31:37

and agreed to make some of the changes the board requested.

31:40

One of those edits was changing the phrase good

31:43

lord to what? I'm

31:47

just gonna guess here, but maybe a hint. I would

31:49

like a hint. Helen, how about that second hint? It

31:51

made it sound a lot more like another

31:53

musical. You're a good man, Charlie

31:56

Brown. Was it good grief? Helen?

31:58

That is correct.

31:59

That is correct.

31:59

Jill Twiss is five for five. Very,

32:02

very nice. Fun fact, there were over 20 specific

32:05

edits requested from that school board, many of

32:07

which were agreed to. Among edits, the

32:09

creators would not change the lyric, I'm not

32:11

that smart, in the song called, I'm

32:13

not that smart. I

32:15

can't imagine why they didn't want to change that one. All

32:17

right, Jill, you obviously did very well in that round, but now

32:20

here is your expert level question that requires multiple

32:22

answers. It is time for your cluster fact.

32:24

Ooh.

32:27

We'll be bringing on an expert to discuss your response. Jill,

32:31

the 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee's Genesis was with

32:33

an improv troupe called The Farm, some

32:35

of whose members went with the show all the way to

32:37

Broadway. For up to three points, when

32:39

it was first performed by The Farm, what

32:42

was the title of the show, which

32:44

was the correct spelling of the word crepuscule?

32:46

Next, what

32:47

member of The Farm originated the role that

32:50

became Olive and directed some early productions,

32:53

and what other member of The Farm originated well,

32:56

your role of Logan and continued to play

32:58

her on Broadway?

32:59

Oh my goodness. Was

33:01

the first question essentially spelled

33:04

crepuscule? It pretty much is, yes. We

33:06

needed something for our audience to latch onto.

33:09

Really excited that I bragged about writing

33:11

for the Spelling Bee. Well,

33:14

to be fair, you didn't brag about spelling for

33:16

the Spelling Bee, right? I never do.

33:18

Okay, let's try it. I'm gonna say C, R,

33:22

E, P, U, S,

33:24

C, U, L, E, crepuscule.

33:27

All right. We can't tell you yet if you're

33:29

correct, but we'll take note of that. Great. Oh,

33:31

what's the second question? No worries. Well,

33:33

what member of The Farm originated the role that became Olive

33:36

and directed some early productions, and

33:38

then what other member of The Farm originated the role of

33:40

Logan and continued to play her on Broadway?

33:43

Wait, I have a name that's coming to my head.

33:45

I don't know where it's coming from. I'm just gonna say

33:47

it. I'm gonna say Rebecca Feldman. Okay.

33:50

I'm gonna say why or where that name came from. All right.

33:53

And then the last one is the person who played Logan,

33:55

who I believe is named Sarah Salzberg.

33:57

Okay, well, Helen is taking note of those.

34:00

We have an expert on hand who can tell us for sure. In fact,

34:02

we have two. Helen, who do we have tonight? Joining

34:05

us tonight are two members from

34:07

The Farm, who originated

34:09

the roles that became Olive and

34:11

Logan in the 25th annual

34:14

Putnam County Spelling Bee. It's

34:16

Rebecca Feldman and Sarah Salzberg.

34:19

Oh my God, this is the best day of my life. Hello,

34:22

Rebecca. Hi. And hello,

34:24

Sarah. Hello. Thank you

34:27

so much for joining us, and thank you for making this

34:29

the best day of Bill's life. Thank you for

34:31

having us. Yes, we're so happy to be

34:33

here. Excellent. We have so much to talk

34:35

about, but I kind of want to get back to the beginning.

34:37

How did you two end up meeting in the first place? Sarah

34:40

went to college. She went

34:42

to BU with my sister, Liz.

34:45

We were both in New York doing theater.

34:48

I wanted to make up a show

34:51

from scratch with some improv actors,

34:53

and Sarah was one of them. And

34:55

she jumped on board and

34:57

never jumped off, which was

34:59

great. That's right. And

35:02

Sarah, I understand that you two still

35:04

hang out. In fact, I believe one of you referred to

35:06

the other as your bestie.

35:07

We're very, very close. I'm very

35:10

close with Liz. Liz, Rebecca's

35:12

sister I lived with for many years. Actually,

35:15

when Rebecca reached out to me, I'd been doing

35:17

improv, but one of my survival jobs

35:20

was similarly tutoring.

35:23

And I was teaching improv acting at PS6

35:26

on the Upper East Side. And Logan was

35:28

based on a little boy, one of

35:31

my students.

35:31

Oh, wow. And by the way, the

35:34

Liz Feldman you're talking about, is that the creator of Dead to Me, Liz

35:36

Feldman? Yes. That is. Oh, she's

35:38

been a guest on our show. This is a little

35:41

pal. I have no idea. Excellent.

35:43

Well, Rebecca, you're very close with one of the members of

35:45

the cast.

35:46

Yeah, Jay Rees, who originated

35:48

the Vice Principal Panch role,

35:51

is my husband. And Sarah. There you go. I believe

35:53

Sarah was on the phone with him. For an hour this

35:55

morning. Yes. We talked about it. Oh,

35:57

there you go. And I understand Celia Keenan-Boldridge.

36:00

who was the original, Olive on Broadway, was actually

36:02

just at your home yesterday. Yes, well

36:04

Celia's son is

36:06

best friends with my son. So

36:09

they're together all the time. You guys keep

36:11

it real incestuous over there. Oh yeah, boy.

36:16

Well, Rebecca, I'm so interested in the genesis of

36:18

the show because when it was first conceived, it actually was not

36:20

a musical.

36:21

It was a play with

36:23

music. We had a few songs

36:25

in there written by the

36:28

late Michael Friedman. But

36:31

it wasn't a full musical. And it

36:33

was a bonkers show. The whole thing was basically

36:36

improv. And then

36:38

there were some weird abstract

36:42

dance numbers in it. It

36:45

was bizarre. But it was very fun. And the

36:47

audiences seemed to love

36:47

it. And Sarah, you were sort of instrumental in

36:50

connecting with who eventually became

36:52

the person who wrote the music and lyrics for the show,

36:54

William Finn. Tell us that crazy story.

36:56

So in addition

36:58

to teaching improv at PS6

37:01

and waitressing, I

37:04

was a very intense waitress. I

37:07

was also a nanny, a weekend nanny for Wendy

37:10

Wasserstein. And she was

37:13

incredibly generous. And she came to see the

37:15

show. And there's

37:17

no fourth wall in Spall and B. I watched her the entire

37:20

time. And I was like, oh, is

37:22

she liking it? Is she not liking it? And

37:24

the first thing she said to me after the show was,

37:26

that is an incredible show. But it can't end

37:28

with luck be a lady tonight. Yeah,

37:31

like a

37:32

full original score. And that's why she won

37:34

the Pulitzer for drama. That's right. That's right.

37:37

She knows her stuff. So she put us in touch with

37:39

Ill and eventually James. And

37:41

what was so lovely about this was that the

37:44

three of them had been friends for a very, very

37:46

long time. And she said to me

37:48

many times that it was so special

37:51

to have this group of friends that had been friends

37:53

for so long, ushering this new group

37:55

of artistic friends into

37:57

this world, which was really accurate.

37:59

And now we have all been friends for

38:02

decades, which is so nice. Very

38:04

cool. Rebecca, we mentioned that you originated

38:07

the role that became Olive, but it was not Olive

38:09

when you were playing it. Tell us about what that role was

38:11

and why you ended up not being

38:14

a performer in the show.

38:15

The role was Beth Margulies,

38:18

and she was basically my inner 11-year-old,

38:21

and nobody wants to spend 100 or so

38:24

dollars to hear me sing. Ah.

38:27

And so

38:30

with respect to Beth Margulies, we changed

38:32

her name to Olive Ostrovsky.

38:35

Sarah, you of course played Logan, the role

38:37

that Jill played in her regional production.

38:41

When you talk to people who've taken

38:43

on the role since, what do you tell them about

38:45

sort of the key to playing that role?

38:47

Well, I think the key for most

38:49

of the characters in the show is to

38:52

think about, you know, what

38:55

the chaos of childhood was like for

38:58

you at that time. That

39:01

we talk a lot about what are the central themes

39:03

of the show, and I think

39:06

for those of us that were

39:08

in the room creating it, there's

39:11

things about competition

39:13

and winning and all of those things, but so

39:15

much of it is really about sort of the darkness

39:17

and the chaos and

39:19

the stakes of childhood. And

39:22

I see it with my own kids now, you know,

39:25

and when I would go back and read my diaries, there

39:27

was one entry that I found that was like, oh, today

39:30

was a terrible day. I stepped

39:32

in dog do again. I'm not

39:34

kidding. Everything, you know, and so I think back

39:37

to that time when

39:41

I was, you know, 10 years old, and everything

39:43

felt so important. When

39:47

you were 10 years old or 11 years old or 12 years

39:50

old, what were those things for

39:52

you? And did your musical director flee

39:54

the production at any point? You

39:58

may have wanted to, but. If

40:01

I may, I think that as

40:03

an adult, if I step in dog

40:05

do, that is still important. Especially

40:08

again. Again. Yeah. As

40:12

we've talked about, the show had this wonderful improvisational

40:15

both origin and also element in its final

40:18

production, which was so unlike anything else

40:20

that we've seen on Broadway at the time. Were

40:22

there any particularly memorable moments that happened

40:25

because of bringing in audience members and

40:27

not knowing what to expect on any given night?

40:29

We learned early on that we had to,

40:31

if we had chosen people to be audience volunteers, we

40:34

had to watch what they were drinking because

40:36

there was a bar. We had

40:38

definitely got a few intoxicated

40:41

people on stage. And

40:43

we also really tried to make sure that the people

40:46

that were the audience volunteers had

40:48

not seen the show before because

40:50

sometimes they would get up on stage and

40:52

just start mouthing, singing

40:54

along. Or it was like, oh, this

40:56

is really killing the vibe. Audience

40:59

members, am I right? Oh.

41:00

Last thing I want to

41:02

ask you both, you both are doing things now that are sort of related

41:05

to what you were doing at Spelling Bee,

41:07

but in a different way. Sarah, tell us about the success

41:09

you found in a different field that you actually started

41:12

while you were doing the show.

41:13

So I am in real estate

41:16

and I actually got into real estate before

41:18

when we were doing Croposcule because I was trying to raise

41:20

money for the show. And I really

41:23

loved doing it. And so I

41:25

own a firm now in Manhattan called

41:27

Bohemia Realty Group. And many of the agents here have a background

41:29

in the arts. So it's

41:31

a very, the green

41:33

room of real estate, it's been called.

41:36

Very cool. So you would have a show on

41:38

Broadway and then go uptown, show a property,

41:41

and then come back and do the evening performance. What?

41:43

That's right. That's right. I love

41:45

it. I love it. That is dedication. And

41:47

Rebecca, you're still doing something with the show

41:49

now. Tell us about this TV project you're developing.

41:52

Well, J. Rees and I are developing

41:54

a Spelling Bee game show. Fantastic.

41:57

I don't know if you know, but I

41:59

enjoy game shows. So do we.

42:02

And yeah, so hopefully it will be

42:04

on a network near you at

42:07

some point, maybe in 2024. Awesome.

42:11

That's very exciting. All right. Well, let's get

42:13

to the reason we brought you here as far as our game is concerned. You

42:15

heard the questions that we asked of Jill. First, we want

42:17

to know what was the original title of the 25th annual

42:19

Putnam County Spelling Bee, which is in fact the

42:21

correct spelling of the word crepuscul.

42:24

Helen, what did Jill say?

42:26

Jill said C-R-E-P-U-S-C-U-L-E.

42:33

And? That is correct. Got

42:35

it right. Very nice, Jill. That

42:37

is a point. That's amazing. All right. Very

42:40

good, Jill. Next, we want to know what member of the farm originated the

42:42

role that became Olive and directed some of the early productions.

42:45

Helen, what did Jill say?

42:46

Jill said a name just came to her

42:48

and the name was Rebecca Feldman. And?

42:52

That is correct. That is correct. That is

42:54

me. Another point. And finally,

42:56

I wanted to know what other member of the farm originated

42:58

the role of Logan and continued to play her on Broadway.

43:01

Helen, what did Jill say?

43:02

Jill said Sarah Salzberg. And

43:05

Sarah Salzberg? That is correct. That

43:07

is correct. A perfect game

43:09

from Jill Twist. Very, very nice. Oh my gosh. This

43:12

couldn't be better. And

43:14

a Spelling Bee game show might happen. I get

43:16

Best Day of My Life. I

43:18

thought it was already the best day of my life and then it

43:20

got

43:21

a little better. Can I just quickly

43:23

say something to Jill? Please. We were just

43:25

watching the National Spelling Bee

43:28

and we've

43:30

been aware that the sentences have been

43:33

funnier in the past several years. And

43:38

Jane and I were like,

43:40

who do you think writes those sentences? I

43:43

really want to know who writes those sentences. And

43:45

I cannot believe that I am now looking

43:48

at the person who writes those

43:50

sentences. I don't want to out this

43:52

person. It was a thing where I had just

43:54

gotten hired at last week tonight and all of a sudden

43:56

I had all this nerve and I was like,

43:59

why don't you just ask me?

43:59

for the jobs you want, Jill. And

44:02

so I emailed them, but it's me and

44:05

it's actually a Simpsons writer, the

44:07

other writer, although this year,

44:10

they did not use comedy writers, but

44:12

they still had some of our sentences from previous

44:14

years. Wow.

44:15

And Sarah, I understand you're also

44:17

very familiar with Jill's work as a writer. Yes.

44:20

You're Marlon Bundo is

44:22

I literally know that book by heart.

44:25

I have two little boys and we read it all the

44:27

time. Oh, that delights me. I

44:29

didn't,

44:31

I don't have children. I didn't have children

44:33

when I wrote it, but I now realize that

44:35

I've written the line. You are not

44:37

in charge for children to go

44:39

with their parents.

44:40

I'm so sorry. Jill,

44:43

while we have Sarah and Rebecca here, anything else you'd

44:45

like to ask or say to them?

44:46

Rebecca, I want to say that

44:50

it turns out your family is responsible

44:52

for two of my favorite shows in the world. So

44:54

thank you. Thank you to your family.

44:56

And then maybe this is a question

44:58

for both of you. I'm not sure.

45:00

A huge sort of thing I admired

45:03

about Spelling Bee was that there

45:05

was a monologue in it

45:07

that got rewritten, you know, on

45:09

a regular basis, which is something that

45:11

just doesn't happen on

45:14

Broadway. And

45:15

it was so exciting

45:17

to me as a comedy writer to like

45:19

see the work and see it getting written. Where

45:22

did that idea come up? And

45:24

were there hurdles to being able to do it

45:26

when the show went to Broadway? Surprisingly,

45:29

no, we worked. I would

45:31

write those monologues

45:33

and I was sometimes write them with Jay, actually, and try

45:37

them out in the rehearsals and

45:39

in the previews. And then

45:42

they just let us

45:43

do it. I mean, and then

45:46

as the run kept going, it was

45:49

like I would sometimes do sometimes I would

45:51

do on like every single night. Sometimes I would

45:53

do one and it would last for a week and a half.

45:56

Really just depended what was like the top of the news.

45:58

But then we actually.

45:59

when we had the production in San Francisco

46:02

and we started having productions in other places, found

46:05

that it was able to be replicated. It

46:08

didn't depend just on me

46:10

or Jay writing it, that they were like, oh, this is replicatable.

46:14

And it worked and it's been able

46:16

to work.

46:16

Awesome. Well, it was so wonderful to have both of you. If people

46:18

want to find out more about you and what you're up to, Rebecca,

46:21

where can they do that for you? Rebeccafeldman.me. That's

46:26

me, I'll just leave it at that. We'll leave it at that, all right.

46:28

And Sarah Salzberg. I would just say,

46:31

give me a Google. Give her the old

46:33

Google, why not? We're certainly happy

46:35

that you gave us your time today. Everyone, it's

46:37

Rebecca Feldman and Sarah Salzberg. Thank you so

46:39

much again.

46:40

Thank you. Thank you. All

46:42

right, Helen, what is our score at the end of that round? At the

46:44

end of that round, Jill Twiss has eight points

46:46

and Mike Kaplan has half a point with a round

46:48

of questions for Mike coming up. That's right, we're

46:51

gonna talk with Mike about a topic he knows about. Plus

46:53

later, Jill and Mike will go head to head in our Fast

46:55

Facts round, all to find a winner on Go Fact

46:57

Yourself.

47:02

Okay, Helen, it's time to talk about Soilint. Soilint,

47:05

you mean the original food tech company that

47:08

makes delicious and nutritious nutrition

47:10

products in convenient formats? As

47:11

a matter of fact, I do mean that one. Well,

47:14

Helen, I know that you've tried some of these fantastic

47:16

Soilint products and they sent us some talking

47:18

points and I thought it'd be fun. We could run by

47:21

some of those talking points and see if your experience

47:23

with Soilint matches up with what they suggested

47:25

we could say. Let's do it. All right, first they

47:27

want us to say that it's the quickest, easiest

47:29

meal on the planet. No cooking, no cleanup.

47:31

Check and check. All right, complete balanced

47:34

nutrition made from US grown sustainable

47:36

sourced ingredients making this good for you

47:38

and good for the planet. Check. All right,

47:41

what about loving the rich and creamy chocolaty

47:43

goodness of their best selling nutrient packed

47:45

complete meal?

47:45

Yes, that one is good. Oh yeah, that's

47:48

that Soilint complete meal shake. Oh,

47:50

they want us to say that it's perfect for breakfast, lunch,

47:52

or any time you need a nutritious meal that's

47:54

delicious. Absolutely. What about that it's healthy

47:56

fast food with no drive through required?

47:58

Definitely better for you than.

47:59

than a literal fast food restaurant.

48:01

What about if you hate to cook, there's no worries

48:04

because you've got a complete meal in a bottle? Yes,

48:06

that's true. OK, how about no time, no problem,

48:08

open, drink, nourish, move on?

48:10

All of that and move on. And finally,

48:12

salads aren't the only way to balance your nutrition.

48:15

Is that true? That is absolutely true. You can

48:17

do shakes, powders, energy drinks,

48:19

and even the Soylent squared bar.

48:22

All right, Helen, you've somehow surprisingly

48:24

convinced me. How do people get Soylent?

48:27

Go to Soylent.com slash

48:29

gofact and use code gofact to

48:31

get 20% off your first order. That's

48:34

Soylent, S-O-Y-L-E-N-T,

48:37

dot com slash gofact and

48:39

use code gofact for 20% off

48:42

your first order. And

48:43

that's why we say, thank

48:46

you, Soylent. Are

48:51

you tired of being picked on for only wanting to talk

48:53

about your cat at parties? Do you feel as though

48:56

your friends don't understand the depth

48:58

of love you have for your guinea pig? When you look

49:00

around a room of people, do you wonder if they know

49:02

sloths only have to eat one leaf a month? Have

49:04

you ever dumped someone for saying they're just

49:07

not an animal person? Us too. She's

49:09

Alexis B. Preston. She's Ella MacLeod.

49:11

And we host Comfort Creatures, the

49:13

show where you can't talk about your pets too much,

49:16

animal trivia is our love language, and

49:18

dragons are just as real as dinosaurs.

49:20

Tune in

49:20

to Comfort Creatures every Thursday on Maximum

49:23

Fun. Welcome

49:27

back to Go Fact Yourself with

49:29

our guests Jill Twiss

49:30

and Mike Kaplan. Once again, here's

49:33

J. Keith Van Straten. Thank you so much, Helen.

49:35

All right, Mike, of your many interests, you told

49:36

us that you know and love linguistics, psychedelics, and

49:40

Spider-Man. Let's find out a little bit

49:42

more about each of those. First, Mike, tell us

49:44

why you know and love linguistics. I currently

49:47

have a master's degree in linguistics, which

49:49

I got after minoring in linguistics

49:52

in college. It got triggered right

49:54

after the medical exam that I

49:56

had booked for my V.A.myna research in

49:58

college. For the rest of my life,

49:59

until I got to college. I've

50:02

never felt like as sort of seen

50:05

or heard or understood

50:07

as when I'm like, oh, there's people dedicating

50:10

their lives to studying languages

50:12

and how they work and what words

50:15

mean and what sounds they're made of. And

50:17

the language spoke to me and

50:19

I speak the language. So.

50:23

Your standup really reflects

50:25

that, Mike. That really comes

50:27

through in your standup. Your standup is very

50:29

language based. Thank you,

50:31

Helen. Thank you for listening and

50:34

noticing and saying it. I

50:37

really appreciate it. All right. Well,

50:39

tell us what your interest in psychedelics involves.

50:41

I was raised in a home with

50:43

parents that were like, don't do drugs.

50:46

And I was like, my parents seem to know what they're talking

50:48

about. So I didn't. I didn't

50:50

smoke pot until I was in my 20s and

50:53

I didn't love it. But then I was

50:55

at a music festival and I performed

50:58

and somebody bought a CD and

50:59

paid with a $10 bill wrapped around

51:02

a mushroom stem. And.

51:04

What? That is

51:07

amazing. It was. And I tried

51:09

it and it, if you've never done a psychedelic,

51:11

it's hard to describe what a psychedelic experience is

51:13

like the same way that if you've never eaten

51:15

a kiwi and so it's like, well, describe to me what a kiwi

51:18

tastes like. Like you could use as many

51:20

words as you want, but eventually you're gonna be like, you should probably

51:22

just have a kiwi and

51:24

then you'll get it. I

51:26

enjoy, you know, consciousness. I

51:29

enjoy, you know, like learning

51:32

and experiencing new things and psychedelics

51:35

are something that have been a great portal

51:37

to that.

51:38

Very interesting. I'm very interested and curious

51:40

in trying some of that myself. So perhaps

51:42

I'll, you know, perhaps I'll

51:45

sell a CD for $10 in a mushroom. That's

51:48

how you do it for everyone. That's how you get, it's a comedy,

51:51

it's the gateway to psychedelics. Oh yeah. And

51:54

then finally, Mike, tell us why you know and love Spider-Man.

51:56

Since I was a child, I've been reading

51:58

comic books.

51:59

Spider-Man has been, you know, it's one of my

52:02

longest relationships. I don't remember

52:04

a time when I wasn't familiar with Spider-Man,

52:06

like back to probably I remember being in

52:09

pre-K, like my nursery

52:11

school. And I was playing with a friend of

52:13

mine. I remember we would like play pretend being

52:15

like he was Spider-Man and I was

52:17

Hulk or vice versa. And so like from

52:20

the earliest I can remember, I

52:22

knew and loved Spider-Man. And now

52:24

they just they keep making movies and they keep

52:26

making the comics. And I haven't read

52:28

every Spider-Man comic

52:29

there is, but I think I've read more

52:32

than most people. I love them. Yeah, I

52:34

never took that off from Archie comics. That was that

52:36

was the only comic that I stayed with. So it's interesting that you

52:39

you went to that. Well, to summarize, Mike, you

52:41

said, you know, and love linguistics, psychedelics

52:43

and Spider-Man. Today, we're going to quiz you about

52:46

Spider-Man. Wow. Now,

52:49

there are different eras of Spider-Man, I aim to

52:51

understand. Is there a favorite of yours? I have

52:53

a great fondness for like in the 90s

52:55

when I think it was like Todd McFarlane was

52:57

drawing Spider-Man and Eric Larson is

52:59

one of my favorite comics creators, and he was

53:01

writing, I think, and drawing Spider-Man

53:04

for a time. And so I do fondly

53:06

remember that era. But also, I think

53:08

there's a cornucopia these days. We're

53:10

in like this, you know, utopian and utopian

53:14

slash dystopian world where everything

53:16

is available. I'll say now. Big

53:19

fan of the now Spider-Man. Yeah.

53:21

Anyone who found high school the favorite time of their life

53:24

cannot be trusted. Hahahaha. All

53:26

right, Mike, just ahead, we're going to enlist the help of a bona fide

53:29

expert in your topic with a question worth up to three

53:31

points. But before that, to let you show your love,

53:33

here are five trivia questions about it, each worth

53:35

one point. If you want it, you're allowed to hint for any two

53:38

of these five questions. Now, Jill, do listen closely,

53:40

because if Mike answers incorrectly, you could steal.

53:43

By the way, Jill, how much do you know about Spider-Man?

53:45

I have never read a Spider-Man

53:48

comic or seen a Spider-Man movie.

53:51

But I did read a book about the

53:53

Spider-Man musical.

53:54

Nice. So,

53:57

if there's an opportunity to turn off the dark,

53:59

you will be ready.

53:59

ready to jump in. All right, here's

54:02

question number one. Mike, Spider-Man

54:04

was created in the early 1960s. The

54:06

shared credit for his creation is sometimes

54:08

given to Steve Ditko, sometimes given

54:10

to Jack Kirby, but always given to

54:12

and gladly taken by what man

54:15

who was Marvel's then editor-in-chief?

54:17

Stan Lee. Helen? That

54:20

is correct. That is correct. Mike is on the board with

54:22

a point there. Fun fact, Stan Lee famously made cameos

54:25

in many of the Spider-Man films, and for

54:27

2021's Spider-Man No Way Home, the VFX

54:29

team

54:29

paid tribute to him by using his birthday

54:32

as the number of a taxicab on the iconic

54:34

bridge fight scene. Bruce Campbell,

54:36

by the way, also appears in many Spider-Man movies,

54:38

and he appeared on episode 110 of Go Fact Yourself.

54:42

All right, Mike, here's question number two.

54:44

From the first one in 2002 to the

54:46

one that came out just a few days ago in 2023, every

54:49

performer who has played Aunt May in

54:51

a Spider-Man feature film has been nominated

54:54

for an Oscar, not for playing Aunt

54:56

May, but still, yes. Now, two of those

54:58

actors have won Oscars, and one of them has won two

55:01

Oscars in 1980 and 1985. Which

55:03

Aunt May actor is this double Oscar winner?

55:06

I know that Marisa Tomei played Aunt

55:08

May, but I don't know if

55:10

she won, I know

55:13

she won one for

55:14

my cousin Vinny, I think,

55:16

but I don't feel like that was that early.

55:20

1980 and 1985. Yeah.

55:26

I think I'm gonna ask for a hint on this one. Okay,

55:28

how about that first hint, Helen? We

55:31

like her, we really like

55:33

her. You know, I really

55:36

appreciate the additional effort

55:38

that you went into there, but I'm

55:41

sad to report that most of my Spider-Man

55:43

knowledge is more literature-based

55:46

than cinematic, and so

55:48

I'm

55:49

going to say, even though I doubt it's

55:51

correct, Marisa Tomei. Helen,

55:54

is it Marisa Tomei?

55:55

It is not Marisa Tomei. No, I'm terribly

55:57

sorry, Mike. Jill, with a chance to steal. I'm

56:00

gonna say Sally Field. Helen.

56:03

That is correct. That is correct, yes it was Sally

56:05

Field. Good work Jill. Successful steal for

56:07

Jill. Yes, very gracious of Mike. Fun

56:09

fact, Sally Field won her Oscars for Norma

56:12

Rae and Places in the Heart. Rosemary

56:14

Harris, who played Aunt May as well, was nominated

56:17

for Tom and Viv. Lily Tomlin was nominated

56:19

for Nashville. And as you said, Mike Marisato

56:21

May won for My Cousin Vinny. All

56:24

right, here's question number three. Let's see if you can bounce

56:26

back. While his first title comic

56:28

was The Amazing Spider-Man was

56:30

published in 1963, there have since been many titles of

56:32

Spider-Man published by Marvel or its partners.

56:35

But which of the following is not one of

56:37

them? Is it The Astounding Spider-Man,

56:40

The Astonishing Spider-Man, The

56:42

Sensational Spider-Man, The Spectacular

56:45

Spider-Man, or The Superior

56:47

Spider-Man? I believe that The Astounding

56:50

Spider-Man is not one of them. Helen. That

56:53

is correct. There we go, we're back in gear, very nice. Fun

56:55

fact, there is a fan-written comic called The Astounding

56:58

Spider-Man as well as what seems to be an unauthorized

57:00

short film listed on IMDB. Superior

57:03

Spider-Man wasn't actually Spider-Man, but was

57:05

Dr. Octopus who had switched minds with Spider-Man

57:08

and then

57:08

made him get his doctoral degree. Which

57:11

is what you do usually when you try to switch minds with somebody.

57:13

An evil genius, yes. Yes, here's

57:16

question number four. As we record

57:18

this, the newest Spider-Man movie across the Spider-Verse

57:21

just had its opening weekend. The movie features

57:23

a lot of firsts, including the first film

57:25

appearance of the character Pavithir

57:27

Prabhakar, an Indian version

57:29

of Spider-Man that I probably mispronounced.

57:32

That character lives in what fictional city?

57:34

Mumbatan. Helen. That

57:37

is correct. That is correct, a combination

57:38

of Mumbai and Manhattan. Very

57:40

nice. In the comics, Pavithir

57:43

Prabhakar,

57:43

sorry, first appears

57:45

in Spider-Man India number one. His name

57:48

kind of sounds like Peter Parker, although

57:50

not when I say it. All right, very good

57:52

job, Mike. Here's question number five. You still have

57:54

a hint available. Spider-Man wasn't

57:57

just a hero to kids. He was also a hero

57:59

to companies who...

57:59

wanted to advertise to kids. One

58:02

such advertiser was Hostess, who

58:04

placed several comic ads in the Spider-Man

58:06

books where Spidey would just happen to

58:08

use a Hostess treat to save the day.

58:11

In one story called The Champ, Spidey

58:13

saves boxer Aldo Moomjay when

58:16

he was down for the count in an unfair fight

58:18

in the ring. How did Spidey use

58:20

a Hostess cupcake to save the day? My

58:22

goodness, that is certainly a deep

58:25

cut beyond the purview

58:28

of my immediate knowledge.

58:29

I'm gonna ask for that

58:32

hint, please. Helen, how about that second hint?

58:34

The referee never got passed

58:37

one, two. Did

58:40

Spider-Man shove

58:42

the Hostess product into the referee's

58:44

mouth? Helen? That is correct.

58:47

That is exactly correct, yes. He shoved a cupcake

58:49

in his mouth so he could not complete the knockout

58:52

count. Very nice. Fun fact, many

58:54

of the Hostess ads involve Spider-Man distracting

58:56

his enemies with cupcakes and fruit pies, but

58:59

one had him weighing down Demolition Derby's

59:01

hat weapon with Twinkies, allowing Spidey

59:03

easily to subdue the criminal. All

59:07

right, you did quite well in that mic, but now here's your

59:09

expert level question that requires multiple answers.

59:11

It is time for your

59:12

Cluster Fact. Ooh. We'll

59:16

be bringing on an expert to discuss your response.

59:19

Spider-Man's existence is both enriched and

59:22

complicated by the women in his life, from

59:24

Aunt May to Gwen Stacy to Mary

59:26

Jane Watson to the Black Cat,

59:29

his sometimes nemesis, sometimes love

59:31

interest. For up to three points, what

59:33

is the Black Cat's alter ego?

59:35

What injury does Spider-Man sustain

59:38

when she causes a wall to fall on him

59:40

in her first issue in 1979? And

59:43

what writer and editor co-created the

59:45

Black Cat with artists Keith Pollard

59:48

and Dave Cockrum? Her alter

59:50

ego is Felicia Hardy. Okay.

59:54

The injury that he sustained

59:56

when she dropped a wall on him,

59:59

I'm gonna say.

59:59

broken ribs, but

1:00:02

that's a shot in the dark for sure. And

1:00:06

I'll say that the editor is Tom DeFalco.

1:00:09

Tom DeFalco, all right. Helen is taking

1:00:11

note of those answers. We have an expert on hand who can

1:00:13

tell us for sure. Helen, who do we have tonight?

1:00:15

Joining us tonight is a legendary

1:00:17

and award-winning comics writer

1:00:19

and editor whose many accomplishments

1:00:22

include creating the character

1:00:24

of Black Cat in Spider-Man.

1:00:27

It's Marv Wolfman.

1:00:29

Hello Marv

1:00:31

Wolfman. Hello Marv Wolfman. Hi.

1:00:34

So wonderful that you joined us. Thank you for being here.

1:00:36

My pleasure. Well, Marv, my goodness, we'll talk about

1:00:38

Spider-Man specifically in a moment, but for our listeners,

1:00:41

just to understand, you are an editor-in-chief at Marvel.

1:00:43

You've written for animation plus for thousands

1:00:45

of comics, including Tomb of Dracula,

1:00:47

Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Fantastic

1:00:50

Four, Daredevil, and Wonder Woman. You've

1:00:52

created or co-created characters including the new

1:00:55

Teen Titans, Blade, Bullseye,

1:00:57

Phantasm, Nova, Nightwing,

1:00:59

and Vigilante. You've won the Inkpot

1:01:01

Award, Three Eagle Awards, Two Jack Kirby

1:01:03

Awards, and have been inducted into the Eisner

1:01:05

Hall of Fame. Not too shabby.

1:01:08

And that's why I'm so tired. Ha ha ha ha

1:01:10

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Well,

1:01:12

it was good work that got you there. I was curious

1:01:14

to find out that of all of the thousands of

1:01:16

comics that you've written for, you found Fantastic

1:01:19

Four to be your favorite? No, Fantastic

1:01:21

Four was my favorite comic as

1:01:23

a reader. Oh, as a reader, okay. As a writer,

1:01:25

I actually had the most problems with the Fantastic

1:01:28

Four. Oh, tell us about that.

1:01:29

They're my favorite characters in terms of

1:01:31

Marvel Comics at that time. Spider-Man

1:01:33

was number one, Fantastic Four was two, but

1:01:35

as a book,

1:01:36

Fantastic Four was fabulous. But

1:01:39

it's a very, very tricky set of

1:01:41

characters to work out

1:01:44

as time goes by, because there's

1:01:46

a lot of very weird things that go place

1:01:49

that happen in the Fantastic Four that

1:01:51

aren't easy to bring up to date.

1:01:53

So it took me quite a while to learn how to write

1:01:56

that character. Spider-Man I

1:01:58

was able to do right away. Oh, interesting.

1:01:59

Well, let's talk about that. You wrote around 20

1:02:02

issues of Spider-Man back in that area. How

1:02:04

much of what you wrote do you actually remember when people

1:02:06

talk to you about it? I remember basically

1:02:09

the stuff, but I don't remember specific stories

1:02:11

in Spider-Man because I was trying

1:02:13

to figure out how to handle the character.

1:02:16

So I was worried about how to tell the stories.

1:02:18

I didn't want to be the guy who screwed it up. So

1:02:21

I really had to figure

1:02:23

out how Spider-Man worked

1:02:25

and what you had to do to make him work.

1:02:27

So I was really concerned about that. More

1:02:30

than necessarily

1:02:32

the little problems along the way. Sure. So

1:02:34

was there a particular key that unlocked that for you that you realized,

1:02:37

aha, that's how you write for Spider-Man. When you realize

1:02:39

that Peter Parker cannot succeed, that

1:02:42

every time he's so close to victory,

1:02:44

he falls back and fails.

1:02:47

That's where you begin with Spider-Man. It

1:02:49

seemed that a lot of what your acclaim from that time was

1:02:51

that you focused on Spider-Man's personal relationships.

1:02:54

You famously had him proposed to Mary Jane.

1:02:57

You had him meet this character, Black Cat. How

1:03:00

did you approach weaving these romantic stories

1:03:02

into the action of these comic

1:03:04

books? My view has always been as a

1:03:06

writer that by the time

1:03:08

you've read comics for two years,

1:03:10

you've read every fight thing. You've

1:03:13

read pretty much all of that stuff. So

1:03:15

the only thing of real interest that changes

1:03:18

constantly are characters.

1:03:20

You have to make the characters stronger. You have

1:03:22

to make the characters work. You have to find

1:03:24

the things that the characters love. And

1:03:26

then you have to find the things that the characters are

1:03:29

afraid of

1:03:30

or hate. Stan and Steve

1:03:32

Ditko really concentrated on the

1:03:34

character of Peter Parker and all

1:03:36

the secondary characters in that book. And

1:03:39

I was trying to follow Stan. So where did

1:03:41

the idea of Black Cat and her alter ego

1:03:43

come from? Well, I've mentioned this a lot of times

1:03:45

that most people don't believe it. There's an old

1:03:47

cartoon by Tech Shavery called Bad Luck

1:03:50

Blackie about a Black Cat

1:03:52

who causes bad luck. And I'm watching the

1:03:54

cartoon, Tech Shavery is one of the best

1:03:57

animation directors ever. And

1:03:59

I go,

1:04:00

this could be a real villain, this could

1:04:02

be a real character, and made

1:04:05

the Black Hat, created the Black Hat. What was

1:04:07

interesting about the Black Hat too, was it was

1:04:09

the very first female villain

1:04:11

that Spider-Man fought in all the years that

1:04:14

he had been

1:04:14

published before then. Wow, and that was about 20 years

1:04:17

up to that point. Yeah. Wow.

1:04:19

And you've also kind of essentially recreated some

1:04:21

classic characters as well. I know you're famous for

1:04:24

what you've done with Lex Luthor. Tell us about the approach

1:04:26

that you took with changing that character in a way

1:04:28

that really opened up the stories for Superman

1:04:30

comics more.

1:04:31

Well, as I say, I've been reading comics since the 1950s, and

1:04:35

every time you saw Lex,

1:04:37

he was in a gray suit in prison, and

1:04:39

then he would somehow

1:04:41

take out a weapon that he hid in his teeth

1:04:43

or something, create

1:04:45

a giant robot, and would break

1:04:47

out of prison, and then he'd have a fight with Superman,

1:04:50

and Superman would beat up the robot, and

1:04:53

destroy it, and take Luthor back to prison. I'm

1:04:55

going, if Luthor could create a giant

1:04:57

robot, who could do that, why is he bothering

1:04:59

to commit crimes? He made more money. He

1:05:02

made more money designing giant robots who

1:05:04

are deadly.

1:05:05

He could sell them to the military or stuff. So

1:05:08

my view was that, let's get rid of all that.

1:05:10

Let's get rid of that nonsense. Let him be

1:05:12

a businessman. Let him be a genius

1:05:15

scientist still, but he

1:05:18

was so smart Superman could never

1:05:20

figure out what he was doing or

1:05:22

how he was going to commit a crime or whatever. He

1:05:25

was smarter than Superman. Superman never had

1:05:27

to worry about

1:05:28

being super intelligent. He

1:05:30

had all of his powers. Luthor's powers

1:05:33

were that he was the smartest man on the planet.

1:05:36

You made him a capitalist, the ultimate evil.

1:05:39

Yes, I did. Yes,

1:05:41

I did. And because business,

1:05:44

he could be legal. And so

1:05:47

in between the business stuff, he could be doing

1:05:50

all the bad stuff, but he's so

1:05:52

smart you can't figure it out. Just like on

1:05:54

current capitalists. You were really

1:05:57

on the forefront ahead of the game.

1:05:59

of the hating the evil

1:06:02

billionaire. Yeah, I always

1:06:04

believe in that. It's

1:06:06

been said that second to Stan Lee, you maybe have

1:06:08

created more characters that have been seen in

1:06:10

TV's and movies and toys and animation

1:06:12

than anyone else. I'm curious, are

1:06:14

there any characters that you helped create that

1:06:17

you were surprised caught on or maybe

1:06:19

surprised didn't catch on? I was surprised

1:06:21

at how much people really love the death show

1:06:23

character. Because she

1:06:25

I didn't think I love the character.

1:06:28

And I think he's one of the more nuanced villains

1:06:30

that are out there. But I didn't think that's

1:06:33

the sort of nuance that I gave him married

1:06:36

kids. A lot of different things like that

1:06:38

that would go over with readers. But

1:06:40

they embraced him more than I possibly could have expected.

1:06:43

And because I love the character, I was thrilled.

1:06:46

And on the flip side, was there a character that you

1:06:48

thought, well, this one's going to be in all of the lunchboxes

1:06:50

and didn't quite make it there?

1:06:52

Yeah, I created one for Daredevil

1:06:55

when I was writing. Daredevil calls it a pedo.

1:06:58

And I really thought he would take off

1:07:00

and nobody was interested. So

1:07:02

after about the second appearance, I just never used

1:07:04

him again. Sometimes they win. Sometimes

1:07:07

you win. Sometimes you don't. Yes. Very good.

1:07:09

And then lastly, I want to ask you about your name

1:07:11

is Marv Wolfman, which sounds like a comic

1:07:14

book name. It seems like you're destined

1:07:16

to do what you do. No, I think they name comic book

1:07:18

characters after me. Not the one. Oh, is that what it

1:07:20

was? OK, very good. But I understand

1:07:22

that that being your real name led

1:07:25

in a roundabout way to writers getting

1:07:27

credits in comics.

1:07:28

Can you mind telling that story? It's a funny one,

1:07:30

because back in the 1960s,

1:07:33

when I broke into comics, I started in 1967 as a comic writer.

1:07:37

When you're writing books like House of Mystery and

1:07:39

House of Secrets, which were little sort

1:07:42

of semi horror books, if

1:07:44

you want to call them that, nobody ever

1:07:46

got credit. But what

1:07:48

the way that work was three different stories

1:07:50

and an issue. And you had a host character

1:07:54

who would introduce each story to

1:07:56

the reader. So you'd have an eight page story. But first,

1:07:58

the host would lead you to it.

1:07:59

So the host character, because

1:08:02

they knew that I wrote the story that was coming

1:08:04

up,

1:08:05

Jerry Conway, who wrote those interstitial

1:08:07

pages, wrote the following story

1:08:09

was told to me by a wandering wolfman.

1:08:12

It was a joke.

1:08:14

It was censored a comics code, as you had to

1:08:16

do back then. And they said, you can't use

1:08:18

that. You can't use that because we are

1:08:20

not allowing werewolves or vampires

1:08:23

or any of those in the comics. And DC said, that's

1:08:25

his name. It's truly his name. And

1:08:29

they said, well, then you're going to have to put a credit line

1:08:32

on it. And once I got the credit line

1:08:34

on it,

1:08:34

all the other writers were in it

1:08:36

as well. Wow. That is

1:08:38

so cool. It's because

1:08:41

your name was so cool. You changed

1:08:43

the whole industry.

1:08:44

What's interesting is you

1:08:46

can't see it. But right over there is

1:08:49

the page of artwork from the page

1:08:51

that has the mawp wolfman credit

1:08:53

for the first time. Oh, wow. I hung it

1:08:55

up on my wall and it's always been there. And

1:08:58

what was it like to see your name imprint on a comic for the

1:09:00

first time?

1:09:01

Really cool. Yeah, I can see. I can see a

1:09:03

huge smile on your face now. Still thinking

1:09:05

about it. All right. Well, let's get to the reason we brought you here

1:09:07

as far as our game is concerned. You heard the questions

1:09:10

that we asked of Mike. First, we wanted to know

1:09:12

in reference to the black cat, what is the black

1:09:14

cat's alter ego? Helen, what did Mike

1:09:16

say?

1:09:17

Mike said Felicia Hardy. And

1:09:19

Marv? Thumbs up. Yes. Thumbs up. That

1:09:21

is correct. For the point. Very nice, Mike. Next,

1:09:24

we wanted to know what injury does Spider-Man sustain

1:09:26

when she causes a wall to fall on him in

1:09:28

her first issue from 1979. Helen,

1:09:30

what did Mike say?

1:09:32

Mike said broken ribs. And

1:09:34

Marv? Dislocated arm. Yes.

1:09:36

Sorry. Sorry. Sorry about

1:09:39

that, Mike. I understand. I'm

1:09:41

sorry that I didn't retain it. That's all right.

1:09:43

Well, Mike, you're not the only one. Marv, do you

1:09:45

mind my telling him that we had to remind you

1:09:48

of that fact the other day? It's

1:09:51

only been 50 years since I wrote it. I can't

1:09:53

possibly imagine why. Yes. Hopefully

1:09:56

that makes you feel better, Mike. It sure does. And

1:09:58

finally, we wanted to know what writer and editor.

1:09:59

editor, co-created the Black Cat with artists

1:10:02

Keith Pollard and Dave Cockrum. Helen, what

1:10:04

did Mike say? Mike said Tom

1:10:06

DeFalco. And Marv? Mike is

1:10:08

wrong again. Oh. Why do

1:10:10

you take so much joy in saying that, I'm wondering?

1:10:14

Marv, my apologies. I'm

1:10:17

sorry, but it is a great

1:10:19

honor. I have read so many comics

1:10:21

with your name on them that I now

1:10:23

know wouldn't have existed without

1:10:26

you. I mean, I knew that they wouldn't, but

1:10:28

I didn't even know that your name wouldn't have

1:10:30

been on them without you. So it's

1:10:33

a pleasure. Thank you so much. My pleasure.

1:10:35

And Mike, is there anything else you'd like to ask or say

1:10:37

to Marv while we have him here? Marv, are you working

1:10:39

on things still? Are you writing? Are

1:10:41

you creating? What are you up to? I just signed a

1:10:43

contract to do a graphic novel. Can't

1:10:46

say what it is, but

1:10:48

it's a graphic novel. It'll be a couple hundred pages.

1:10:51

Wow. So I'm really looking forward to getting

1:10:53

to work on it. Excellent. Amazing. And

1:10:56

one final question. If listeners out there

1:10:59

don't know that they've read your work or haven't

1:11:01

yet read your work, what comics

1:11:03

would you direct them to as a good place to

1:11:06

start as an

1:11:07

entryway to your work? Great question. If you're

1:11:09

a Marvel fan, Tumor Dracula. Marvel

1:11:12

has published several hardcover editions.

1:11:14

So you could find the entire 63 issues

1:11:18

I wrote published there. That's probably

1:11:21

the first major success

1:11:23

that I had. DC, either

1:11:25

New Teen Titans or Crisis

1:11:28

on Infinite Earths, as well as my Superman

1:11:30

stories. Excellent. Great question. Great answers.

1:11:32

A lot to absorb if you're trying to be

1:11:35

a Marv Wolfman completist. Thank you

1:11:37

so much for joining us. If people want to find out more

1:11:39

about your work and what you're up to, where can they do that? MarvWolfman.com.

1:11:42

Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us. What an honor. Marv

1:11:45

Wolfman, everybody. Take care. Awesome.

1:11:47

All right, Helen, what is our score as we head into the final

1:11:49

round?

1:11:50

At the end of that round, Jill Twiss has

1:11:52

nine points and Mike Kaplan has five and a half

1:11:54

points. All right, now it is time for our final

1:11:56

round we call Fast Facts. I'll read 10

1:11:59

statements and each can

1:11:59

will answer with true or false.

1:12:02

I'll start with Jill and alternate between each guest.

1:12:05

Each correct answer is worth one point. Again,

1:12:07

please answer each statement with true or

1:12:09

false. Here we begin. Jill,

1:12:12

there's a Nobel Prize for economics. Chih.

1:12:15

Correct. Mike, there's a Nobel Prize for cookbooks. False.

1:12:18

Correct. Jill, a Nobel Prize winning

1:12:20

economist wrote a cookbook. Chih.

1:12:23

Correct. Yes, it was called Cooking to Save Your Life by Abhijit

1:12:25

Banerjee, which I'm also probably mispronouncing.

1:12:28

My apologies. Mike, celebrated

1:12:29

rapper Eminem wrote a cookbook. False.

1:12:33

Correct. Jill, celebrated rapper Coolio wrote a

1:12:35

cookbook. True. Correct.

1:12:38

Mike, celebrated rapper 2 Chainz wrote a cookbook.

1:12:40

False. Incorrect. No, he really did.

1:12:43

Jill, the 2 Chainz cookbook came packaged

1:12:45

with a 2 Chainz album. True. Correct.

1:12:48

Mike, the 2 Chainz cookbook came with a disclaimer

1:12:50

from his record label. True. Correct.

1:12:54

Yep, use of these recipes is at your own risk. Universal

1:12:56

Music Group is not responsible for the outcome of

1:12:58

any recipe. Jill, one

1:13:00

of 2 Chainz recipes is for teriyaki salmon.

1:13:03

True. Correct. Mike, the first instruction

1:13:05

in 2 Chainz recipe for teriyaki salmon

1:13:07

is put on your Versace apron. True.

1:13:11

Correct. Jill, Versace makes an apron. False.

1:13:14

Incorrect. No, they really do. Mike, a Versace

1:13:16

apron retails on its website for $400. True.

1:13:20

Correct. Jill, but it comes with oven mitts.

1:13:23

True. Correct. Mike, it also comes

1:13:25

with a set of dish towels. False.

1:13:28

Incorrect. Jill, it also comes with a chef's

1:13:29

hat. True. Incorrect.

1:13:32

No, that would be ridiculous. All right, I wanna thank Mike and

1:13:34

Jill as Helen tabulates the final score. Helen,

1:13:37

are you ready to announce the winner of today's episode?

1:13:40

I'm ready to announce it. All right,

1:13:42

yeah,

1:13:43

at the end of the game, Jill Twiss

1:13:45

has 14 points and Mike Kaplan has 9 1,500 points.

1:13:48

A very high scoring game for both of you, but congratulations

1:13:51

Jill. You are the fact team champion on Go

1:13:53

Fact Yourself. Jill, what will you do with your championship?

1:13:56

I'm gonna sneak a little

1:13:58

bit of hot chocolate in my coffee. The

1:14:01

psychedelics of the children's

1:14:04

book world. All right, we're gonna wrap

1:14:06

things up by giving everyone here a chance to mention or

1:14:08

promote anything they might like. Jill Twist,

1:14:10

where do you have to work and people find you?

1:14:12

You can find me on social media at

1:14:14

my name, it's Jill Twist. Excellent, thank

1:14:17

you so much for joining us. Jill Twist, Mike

1:14:19

Kaplan, where can people find you and what you're up to? You

1:14:21

can do that by a similar way,

1:14:24

Mike Kaplan, M-Y-K-A-P-L-A-N

1:14:27

on social media. You can search for my albums

1:14:30

on Spotify or whatever platform you'd like

1:14:32

to get standup albums at. My most recent

1:14:34

one is called AKA. I do have a new

1:14:36

Drybar special out on the Drybar Comedy

1:14:39

app. You can get a free month

1:14:41

of Drybar by using the promo code, Mike

1:14:43

Kaplan, spelled that way at the

1:14:46

drybarcomedy.com website

1:14:48

for a monthly subscription. And

1:14:51

I have the two podcasts you mentioned at the top

1:14:53

of the show that I won't repeat. And

1:14:55

I also have a Substack newsletter

1:14:57

I send out once a week, mikekaplan.substack.com,

1:15:01

and you can subscribe for even more.

1:15:03

And also, most of that information is at mikekaplan.com.

1:15:06

Sorry I said it all. No, I appreciate

1:15:08

you doing it. I'm very impressed with how prolific you are and

1:15:10

on many, many platforms. Mike Kaplan, everybody.

1:15:13

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, my hosting partner is the lovely,

1:15:15

the talented, the Helen, the

1:15:16

Hong. Helen Hong, where can people find you? You can

1:15:18

stream my comedy album, Well, Hong,

1:15:21

on Amazon Prime, Apple TV+, YouTube,

1:15:24

et cetera, et cetera. You can also follow

1:15:26

me on the socials at funnyhelenhong,

1:15:29

because we all know, at Helen Hong,

1:15:31

she's not funny.

1:15:32

Nope. Not funny, but you are Helen Hong. And

1:15:35

me, you can find me on Twitter at j underscore Keith

1:15:37

or on Instagram at jkeith.net, all

1:15:39

spelled out. That just leaves me to thank Jill Twiss,

1:15:42

Mike Kaplan, Rebecca Feldman, Sarah

1:15:44

Saltzberg, Marv Wolfman, and thank you for

1:15:46

listening and supporting our show at maximumfun.org.

1:15:49

I'm J. Keith Van Straten, good night.

1:15:52

Like what you hear?

1:15:53

Come see us live, it's happening again. Go to gofactorpod.com

1:15:56

for our schedule and tickets.

1:15:59

Please like us on Facebook follow us on

1:16:02

Twitter and Instagram all at go factor

1:16:04

pod Updater wiki at go factor

1:16:06

wiki dot fandom comm and by

1:16:08

our t-shaped shirt and mug-shaped mug at

1:16:10

max fun store comm and Give

1:16:12

us a great review on your favorite podcast platform

1:16:15

like blah blah blah 83 did

1:16:17

on Apple Podcast each year. They

1:16:19

said this is such a fun podcast where you

1:16:22

learn random facts We really enjoy listening

1:16:24

to it in the car and testing our knowledge even

1:16:26

our one-year-old likes it Thanks, blah blah

1:16:28

blah 83 and

1:16:29

hi blah blah blah 83 jr. Ellen

1:16:35

a one-year-old Go

1:16:38

fact yourself is a panel quiz program devised

1:16:40

and produced by Jim Newman and Jakey Fence Stratton

1:16:42

comes to you via Transcription from various

1:16:45

homes across the world questions

1:16:47

were compiled by the trivia industrial complex

1:16:49

We are produced in collaboration with maximum

1:16:52

fun Maximum fun senior producers

1:16:54

Laura Swisher associate producer and

1:16:56

editor and White House bunny is

1:16:58

Julian Burrell our show engineer

1:17:01

and White House rescue dog is

1:17:03

Dave McKeever our theme song and

1:17:05

incidental music were written and performed by Jonathan

1:17:07

Green Research assistance provided by

1:17:09

Adam Needham quiz assistance provided by

1:17:12

Clint Tousher and Bart Gold promotional

1:17:14

graphics by Eric Tran added

1:17:16

support from Dave Bianchi and Christine Vellotta

1:17:19

Special thanks to Brenda Bowen at the book

1:17:21

group Amy Burgess at the NYU

1:17:23

Tisch School of the Arts Rachel Sheinkin

1:17:26

Jose Vega David Lindsay a bear

1:17:29

Abby Crutchfield Brandon J car

1:17:31

Pete Cunningham and Bob skier

1:17:33

I've been Helen Hong let's

1:17:36

go look at spider-man and The

1:17:40

25th annual Putnam County spelling bee bees

1:17:43

and spiders. Oh Maximum

1:17:48

fun a work

1:17:50

her own network of artists owned shows

1:17:53

supported directly by

1:17:55

you