0:01

Hey

0:05

everybody, it's Jay Keith, and we are

0:08

rapidly approaching the end of the Max

0:10

Fund Drive. Thank you so

0:12

much for all of you who have supported

0:14

us in the drive. This is the one

0:16

time of the year when we do ask

0:18

for your financial support to keep the show

0:20

going. It has been so great so far,

0:22

and there is still time to push us

0:24

over the top of our goal of 500

0:26

new upgrading or boosting members. As I

0:29

record this, it's a little hit or

0:31

miss. I don't know whether we're going to make

0:33

it. So please, please do consider joining,

0:35

upgrading, or boosting your membership

0:38

at maximumfund.org slash join.

0:41

What happens when we hit that goal of 500? Well,

0:43

as you may know, anybody who supports it's

0:45

in the drive this year gets entered into

0:47

our listener tournament for a chance to be

0:49

a guest on a show. If we get

0:52

to 500, we will add a second episode

0:54

of our listener tournament. You can hear the

0:56

finals of our current tournament currently in our

0:58

podcast feed. But if we

1:00

get to 500, we will add a second episode. So

1:03

that's twice as many chances for you listening right now

1:05

to be a guest on the show. Plus,

1:07

for every 100 people who we

1:09

have as new upgrading or boosting members,

1:11

we are selecting one of them to

1:13

sit in on a Zoom recording. So

1:16

right now, since we've passed 400, that's

1:18

four listeners. Once we get to 500,

1:20

that's another listener who could be you

1:22

who gets to sit in and listen

1:24

to a Zoom episode. And of

1:26

course, we still have got that stretch goal

1:28

out there of 650 new upgrading

1:30

or boosting members. If we hit

1:32

that goal, we will add a live audience

1:35

show featuring another episode with our listeners

1:37

as guests. The listener tournament is so much

1:39

fun. It's not just about making the finals.

1:41

It's about playing a bunch of silly games

1:43

and puzzles with us, getting to know us

1:46

better and getting to really experience the community

1:48

of listeners who make Maximum

1:50

Fun so much fun. So,

1:53

join today and make the magic happen.

1:55

The drive is ending so soon. In

1:58

the meantime, you can catch me on the finale. show

2:00

of the Max Fund Drive either live

2:02

in person in LA or live streaming

2:04

on YouTube on Friday, March 29th at

2:06

5 p.m. And

2:09

of course, we have a live audience

2:11

show for Go Fact Yourself on Saturday,

2:13

March 30th at 7 p.m. in Los

2:15

Angeles. I think it's our 150th episode

2:17

that we're taping. My goodness,

2:19

we really could not have gotten this far

2:21

without our listeners who support us in the

2:23

Max Fund Drive. For now, here is a

2:26

special bonus episode from our friends over at

2:28

the podcast, Dead Pilot Society, here on

2:30

Max Fund, where they celebrate scripted shows

2:32

that were rejected by networks. On

2:34

this episode, host Andrew Reich interviewed Max Fund

2:36

host Jordan Morris, John Moe, and me about

2:39

some unscripted show pilots that never saw the

2:41

light of day. You'll hear a segment with

2:43

me talking about a bunch of weird shows

2:45

that I've done in the past. All

2:48

right, I hope you enjoy it. I'll be back with

2:50

more updates. Please follow us on the socials at Go

2:52

Factor Pod. I'm here

2:54

with three esteemed Max

2:57

Fund podcast hosts, all of whom whose

2:59

names start with the letter J. I'll

3:01

start with the person whose name literally

3:04

starts with the letter J, J. Keith

3:07

Van Stratton from Go Fact Yourself. Hey,

3:10

everybody. And

3:12

then from Depress Mode and Sleeping

3:14

with Celebrities, John Moe. Hello.

3:18

And another double podcaster from Jordan,

3:20

Jesse Go, and Free with

3:23

Ads, and also

3:25

Bubble. So maybe kind of triple, but

3:27

presently to Jordan Morris. Hi, hi, everybody.

3:30

I'm esteemed. What a thrill. I didn't know. I

3:32

had no idea I was esteemed. I

3:35

feel like you guys are all

3:37

like actual, like real podcast hosts

3:39

and just so much to happens

3:41

to do a podcast. I don't know. That's

3:43

just my own insecurities. Hey, what are we doing

3:46

here with this fraud? It's

3:50

a good question. So we are here. We are

3:53

at the podcast CBGBs

3:55

with podcast Velvet Underground

3:57

and you're Johnny Come

3:59

Lately. We saw podcasts, can

4:01

in Berlin. Or, yeah, I keep

4:03

that podcast toilet in my home.

4:05

Right, right, right. Celebrate the glory

4:07

days. Back when we were doing

4:09

it in a garage. And we

4:12

didn't even have microphones then. Right.

4:15

We're yelling at each other. We're

4:19

also here to talk about something I

4:21

know nothing about. So this is, you

4:23

know, an episode of Dead Pilots Society,

4:25

on Dead Pilots Society. We do readings

4:27

of scripted pilots that, you know, were

4:30

sold but were never made. But we're

4:32

here to talk about unscripted

4:36

dead pilots. So this

4:38

is the world of talk shows,

4:40

game shows, reality

4:42

shows. And it's a

4:44

world I really know nothing about. But the three of

4:46

you all have some experience,

4:48

some failures, which is the thing we

4:51

most like to talk about on this

4:53

show. In this

4:56

field. Jake Heath. Yes, sir.

4:58

Tell me your tale of unscripted

5:01

dead pilot. I was trying to remember

5:03

them. I counted six that I could

5:05

remember. Wow. Okay. In total,

5:07

I made less than $10,000 from them. So

5:10

I don't know what Jordan's manager

5:12

was doing, but I was certainly better. I

5:15

didn't have one. That was part of the

5:17

story. That was just you. Yeah. Very shrewd.

5:20

But there was a bunch of them to think about. There's

5:23

a bunch to talk about if you want. The

5:25

one that comes to mind, though, that I think

5:27

is the most evocative title. There

5:29

was a game show called Beat the Monkey. I

5:34

got an audition for Peter Gabriel song. No,

5:37

yes, yes. Yes. Yes. It was the shock. The monkey

5:39

beat the monkey was the whole project X thing. No,

5:42

this was a show where contestants

5:46

would answer questions and they would try to

5:48

get better answers. Essentially, the concept

5:50

was try to get better answers than random.

5:53

But random was an actual monkey that

5:57

they tried to convince to slap down a button

5:59

of multiple to see if

6:01

they could beat the monkey, not

6:03

to actually physically beat the monkey like John was

6:05

suggesting. No, of course not. Beat

6:08

the monkey. Yes, exactly. Exactly. But

6:10

beat the monkey. That's the best of the monkey. Yes. And

6:13

so when I went to audition, they explained that

6:15

the monkey would be in a booth

6:17

with a large

6:20

perspex wall with presumably breathing holes

6:23

and some sort of environments and

6:25

whatnot. And then when I

6:27

booked the job and went to shoot

6:29

it, it was not. It's

6:32

very expensive to build a large

6:35

monkey-breath booth. So

6:37

it was just a guy, it was just a trainer

6:40

with a monkey on a leash. And

6:43

the guy, when they were ready to shoot, the

6:45

monkey segments would just duck behind the podium. This

6:50

is so wrong. So I hope

6:53

we certainly know better on a

6:55

lot of levels. Yes, well, this was way back in 2021. No,

6:59

no, it was slightly before that. Is this

7:01

it with people getting their faces and hands

7:03

ripped off? Yes,

7:06

this is very much like, this

7:08

is the unscripted version of the scene from

7:10

NOPE. Yeah. No,

7:13

was that right? It was NOPE, yeah. There's NOPE. There

7:16

you go. Okay. So

7:18

we did the pilot and apparently

7:21

it's a lot more difficult to train a monkey

7:23

to push a button than you might think. But

7:25

even when the only thing there is for the

7:27

monkey to do is to push buttons,

7:29

because they'd gotten him, they'd coaxed him to the

7:32

stool to sit

7:34

there and then he was harnessed in. And

7:37

the monkey just had no interest in any

7:39

of it. And I

7:42

believe I did get the message about

7:44

don't make direct eye contact, don't make

7:46

sudden moves, don't have food in your

7:48

pocket, which is very difficult. Don't establish

7:51

dominance. Yeah. I can't help it,

7:53

Jordan. You know what it is. No, I know. You're

7:56

an alpha. You're an alpha. Don't throw a bone at

7:58

a monolith. Yeah. That's

8:00

just good advice period. Yeah,

8:03

it's a very dramatic edit, so when that

8:05

happens. And yeah,

8:08

so you would be shocked to find out

8:10

that nothing ever happened with that pilot. And

8:13

I believe I had to track down, I

8:16

think I happened to know either an editor, producer writer,

8:18

or something to even get a copy of it. So

8:20

somewhere in my garage is a copy. Oh, you see

8:22

it. You have the copy. OK. So they did eventually

8:24

get this monkey to at least hit some buttons. Enough

8:27

so that they could do the segments. My

8:29

recollection is I never got an

8:31

actual edited finish thing that

8:33

whatever they sent around. And maybe they came to their senses

8:37

during the course of the day and realized this

8:39

wasn't something. Because yeah, now with

8:41

the correct sensitivity towards putting animals

8:44

in that position, it

8:47

would certainly be very uncomfortable for people

8:49

to watch. I should not be doing

8:51

that. But I have pitched my own

8:53

show ideas before. And just realizing

8:56

how much further this concept got than

8:58

any of mine was humbling. And

9:04

also the fact that I was in a position where I

9:06

was glad to have the gig. This was 10 years after

9:08

I'd been on a 65 episode season

9:14

of a game show and had

9:16

pitched other shows and done a bunch of other pilots.

9:19

But I was glad to get the gig. And

9:21

that's what show business does to a fella. Wow.

9:25

So all right, so tell me

9:27

about when you've pitched your own

9:29

ideas. Because this is the process

9:32

I just don't know. I don't

9:34

know how someone gets to making

9:37

this beat the monkey. Someone went

9:39

in and pitched beat the monkey

9:41

to someone and got there. So

9:45

give me a story about one of

9:47

your own ideas that you pitched. Oh,

9:49

let me see. Boy, there have been so

9:52

many failures. How do I pick just one? Let's

9:55

see. One was, oh, OK,

9:58

one that kind of got. little bit

10:00

of traction was actually I was working with my

10:02

sister comes from a news background and she and

10:05

I were trying to think of you know in

10:07

this reality boom we were trying to you know

10:09

think of our own shows to do and so

10:11

one of them was I said

10:14

I don't know I feel like this has been kind

10:17

of done a little bit since then but basically it

10:19

was it was at the time called Comedy Smackdown and

10:21

we were going to have two different

10:23

teams of improvisers and sketch writers and we

10:26

would give them sort of the same either

10:28

props or costume or like one line of

10:30

a premise or dialogue and they had to

10:32

compete to come up with you know the

10:34

best however you know eight minutes

10:36

of entertainment of comedy kind of

10:38

based on based on that and

10:41

I can see by the glum faces

10:43

and nodding heads. Guys guys

10:46

this is like early

10:48

2000s. I worked on a

10:50

version of this. Oh okay yeah so it was

10:52

more recently than that. Oh really okay I think

10:54

this is a like kind of you know.

10:57

I think everyone kind of pitches this at

10:59

some point once they see that there are

11:01

competition shows with creativity involved. It's like in

11:04

the days of the web series there

11:06

were so many versions of it's an interview but

11:08

it's in a weird place. Yeah yeah yeah. You

11:10

know it's just like one of those ideas that like

11:12

a lot of people come up with. Yeah

11:16

I worked on the original

11:18

incarnation of At Midnight for years and

11:21

then after that I worked on

11:23

a series of like kind

11:25

of At Midnight ripoffs that never went anywhere

11:27

past the pilot and one of those was

11:29

a version. What was this? There you go.

11:31

Well we well we hit like well

11:34

we had the unsuccessful ideas 15 years earlier

11:36

so yeah but yeah no it

11:38

was it was something that I think eventually other people would

11:40

definitely come up with and maybe other people had at that

11:42

time but we got we got meetings that like believe it

11:44

or not like we got pretty far up at showtime which

11:46

seems like okay like I don't know how we would have

11:49

made it you know naughty or you know after

11:51

dark or if they were just looking for a clean kind of a

11:53

thing and yeah

11:55

you were close. Yeah exactly.

12:00

Yeah, so that was one of those and then as far as like

12:02

how did I get those opportunities? part

12:05

of it was just knowing other people yet

12:07

knowing other people in reality TV and You

12:10

know my sister I think my sister had an

12:12

agent maybe at the time for her news stuff

12:14

and I think the agency also was looking You

12:16

know everyone was looking for this kind of thing,

12:18

you know Well, I guess not exactly this thing

12:21

happened But they say claimed to have

12:23

been looking for this kind of thing at the time And

12:25

so that was just the one of the ones that kind of stuck and

12:27

I think it had another I haven't looked

12:30

at the you know documents for this in so long

12:32

But it had some other kind of a twist but

12:34

that was sort of the basic the basic deal of

12:36

it but when you're pitching something like comedy smackdown and

12:38

you're you know You're

12:43

you're asking people to imagine how funny this

12:45

is going to be the improvisers doing the

12:47

thing but are How

12:49

do you demonstrate that in the in the room with

12:51

this like and it's gonna be hilarious? Cuz we're gonna

12:54

get these funny people and if they're gonna say funny

12:56

things, you know If you're if you're pitching a scripted

12:58

show you're saying the funny right things I'm gonna hopefully

13:00

put in the show I don't remember what anything are

13:02

but I know that I had examples ready to go

13:05

for this So, you know, I and you know my

13:07

background's in improv also, so, you know, I I had

13:09

the ability to say You know pick an

13:11

object or pick give me a line or something And then like

13:13

I could kind of come up with some enough of

13:15

a premise or an example usually, you know in the

13:17

room But again, apparently not good enough of an example

13:20

um But you know I I this was also still

13:22

at the time where it was super expensive to try

13:24

to make a sizzle reel Or a pilot and like

13:27

I didn't know anyone who is making like pitch decks

13:29

or using powerpoint or any of that kind of stuff

13:31

So we really were just kind of coasting on a

13:33

word doc at the time Uh, which

13:35

I think would be something that'd be very different Um,

13:38

you know not soon after that because yeah,

13:40

of course now you that's a very reasonable

13:42

question Especially for you know

13:44

when you're pitching to development people who don't don't

13:47

always have the greatest imaginations, let us say um

13:50

And so yeah No for certain nowadays We would just

13:52

like, you know do a bunch of live shows and

13:54

record them on iphones and or and

13:56

have the better and edit it together

13:58

proof of concept But back

14:00

then it was like hey, trust this brother and sister

14:02

team who've never made anything else before Right

14:05

and somehow the awkwardness of just it being

14:07

in a room with these sort of suits

14:09

and just going like give me a location

14:11

You know just like yeah improv in that

14:14

cold Like humorless room, which

14:16

I'm imagine just seems like oh that that

14:18

sounds no, but I had my entire childhood

14:20

to prepare for that And

14:27

Yeah, so I mean you know

14:29

you you you've hosted a game

14:31

show on you know the maximum

14:33

fund network But

14:38

you know so were there other and

14:40

I know what you just were talking about

14:42

is word of a game show means people

14:45

It's a competition. Yeah, but have there been

14:47

other kind of you know more traditional game

14:49

shows that you oh Yeah,

14:51

for sure. Oh, well, there's been that definitely

14:53

ones that I've that I've hosted as pilots

14:56

and then Other ones that

14:58

I've pitched. I think a fun actually my

15:00

favorite pilot that didn't get picked up was

15:02

actually Was for

15:04

Comedy Central and it was actually a home shopping show

15:07

And it was supposed to their idea was you

15:10

know after I don't even know if the daily this was like

15:13

Geez 2000 ish, and I

15:15

don't remember what their with their nighttime

15:17

programming was but basically like after 1130 They

15:20

just had it infomercials You know

15:22

until until they would show you know a teaching Chong

15:24

movie at six in the morning I Miss

15:29

I miss early Miss

15:32

that mark Marin and So

15:36

they they had this I thought it was

15:38

a wonderful concept was they were gonna do

15:40

actual home shopping overnight Live

15:43

and have and so they would you know sell ads

15:45

on it But they would also like get a cut

15:47

of this home shopping stuff But they would

15:49

be like these incredibly goofy products and stuff

15:51

that they would find like so like so

15:53

people's real crazy Inventions the the the pilot

15:56

that they made had a lot of like

15:58

kitchen sink kind of element to it because

16:00

it also had sketches, it also had what

16:03

became Storage Wars. They

16:05

had a segment where people would open up a

16:07

storage container or unclaimed

16:13

luggage and auction it off to people and then

16:16

open it up live on the air, that kind

16:18

of stuff. So it really relied on people

16:21

being quick on their feet and on selling

16:23

and mixing

16:26

those kind of traditional hosting skills with improv and

16:28

stuff. And so they had a lot of great

16:30

improv people on it as well.

16:32

They had like Paul Scheer was on

16:34

that pilot, Andy Sakunda, a bunch of

16:37

those, you know, the UCB from that

16:39

generation. And then they

16:41

had a sketch where Gilbert

16:43

Gottfried came in. There

16:46

was an old lady who had

16:48

a self-defense tape that was, you know, it

16:51

was in that era of like, let's watch this

16:53

ironic thing and then bring the person on and

16:56

celebrate them, but also make fun of them.

16:58

And so like there was this old lady

17:00

who had a self-defense tape and then like

17:02

Gilbert Gottfried came on as the attacker and

17:04

like in one of those karate,

17:07

what do you call it? The G or gee?

17:09

The, anyway, the gee. Thank

17:12

you so much. And

17:15

yeah, so they had a lot of it. And then one of them,

17:18

one of the things I realized many years

17:20

later was they had a basketball player on

17:22

because a reason I cannot remember. And

17:26

it turned out to be this fellow, Jason

17:28

Williams, who shot a guy and there's some

17:30

time. Yeah.

17:32

So, star studded. That

17:35

is a neat idea. That

17:37

feels like something that would have like

17:39

killed on adult swim. When I was

17:41

like, if they had done that, then

17:43

that would have like blown some stoned

17:45

minds. Can I ask if there,

17:47

if there was all these places kind

17:49

of clamoring for these ideas, people, people

17:51

wanting ideas for shows like these.

17:54

Like if these were all

17:56

baby turtles, you remember how there's all the

17:58

baby turtles and they're all. only one ever

18:00

makes it to the ocean. Like how many baby

18:02

turtles are out there where you

18:05

were a baby turtle too? My recollection was,

18:07

so this was a pilot that was ordered

18:09

by Comedy Central, and my recollection,

18:11

there were, I think, six

18:13

or eight pilots that they made, and I

18:15

think they chose two of them, and

18:18

the only one that I can remember was, it

18:20

was a bowling show. I don't

18:22

know if that rings a bell for you. Oh, let's bowl.

18:24

So I think I was, I think I was watching a

18:29

lot of Comedy Central at this time, and

18:31

I think that had some mystery

18:33

science theater personnel involved. Ah, okay, there

18:35

you go. Maybe like a

18:38

Mike Nelson or a Bill Corbett. That sounds right,

18:40

that sounds right. That was a very funny, weird

18:42

show. And then I think the other one might

18:44

have been the Chris Wilde show. Do

18:47

you remember him? Oh, sure, vaguely. He did

18:49

a lot of like high energy wacky, extreme

18:52

comedy kind of stuff, and so yeah, they chose

18:54

that in the let's bowl, and our show was

18:56

called Let Shop America, and I guess they kind

18:58

of have one let's on the air. FCCs.

19:02

Tales all the time. Yeah, but it was a great

19:04

experience. I mean, there were some really good people behind

19:07

it, and it actually ended up, that

19:09

pilot was what the producers of Beat the Geeks, the

19:11

game show that I ended up hosting on Comedy Central

19:13

had seen to like bring me in, so it was

19:15

nice to kind of have a leg up, and you

19:17

know, I'd already sort of been pre-screened by Comedy Central

19:19

at the time. And

19:21

then one of the, I think one

19:24

of the creators of the show was a fella named

19:26

Art Chung, who was a writer on Who Wants

19:29

to Be a Millionaire, and he went on to be one

19:31

of, I don't know if he was the creator or just

19:33

one of the main producers of Ask Me Another, the

19:36

show on NPR that I ended up doing, writing

19:38

a lot of games for, and he's also

19:40

referred me to other jobs and all that, so it ended

19:42

up being pretty cool. And I even got another pilot from

19:44

the same, a different fellow

19:46

on the show, producer as well, so. Yeah,

19:49

some failures are kind of obvious that, you

19:52

know, like a Beat the Monkey, but the shopping thing

19:54

I still think would be, so

19:56

fun, and I would totally have watched that. Oh

19:59

yeah, I wanna watch that. watch that right now. Yeah.

20:04

It's just, you know, this parallel world

20:07

that is, you know, I guess, is,

20:09

you know, for the last couple of

20:11

decades, it's always been going on, you

20:13

know, I'm in this lane of like

20:15

the side and yeah, there's, there are

20:17

those baby turtles that, and, but

20:19

then there are all these other baby

20:21

turtles on this, on this other side. And, you

20:24

know, I just, you know, with a game show

20:26

or whatever, I've just, you know, it's

20:28

just, I just don't know

20:30

how elaborately you have to

20:32

lay that out, you know,

20:34

or someone hearing a pitch for them

20:37

to understand what that's going. Right. Like,

20:39

well what's interesting about it for me is I

20:42

feel like with the Let's Shop America one, that

20:44

they kind of laid out too much. Cause I,

20:46

I feel like, you know, the, they didn't have

20:48

enough of the, the, the main concept for

20:50

it. And I don't, I don't know what it's, I've been out

20:52

of the world a little, you know,

20:54

for, for a while, but the reputation Comedy Central had

20:57

at the time was that they would have these great

20:59

concepts and then not let people do them or like

21:01

wouldn't trust people to, you know,

21:03

anything that, anything that was unscripted, they,

21:06

they were a little afraid, like, well, what if it doesn't go well

21:08

or what if it doesn't get the last? That

21:10

was, that was the, the word that

21:12

I got. And so a lot of that stuff, like,

21:15

you know, they wouldn't let us just improvise with,

21:18

you know, with wacky products that we just saw for

21:20

the first time. So it would be a lot of

21:22

kind of pre-written stuff and, you know, it was great

21:25

as it was working Gilbert Gottfried or to have this

21:27

basketball player, you know, pre maybe murder. You

21:30

know, it, it didn't, it, it, I

21:32

think the, the people making the show wanted to

21:34

show more of what it could be. And, you

21:36

know, it ended up being a lot more kind of cautious, which

21:39

maybe is something that you can really do in

21:41

your world, Andrew. It

21:45

also is possible that I sucked by the way. I just want

21:48

to get that out there. It also is possible that I brought

21:50

the whole case down. Anytime you

21:52

can play my monkey. True.

21:54

That's true. I didn't mention there was a monkey in every

21:56

show. That

21:58

was the lesson you took away from beat. monkeys like there's

22:00

good well there's got to be a monkey yeah gotta have

22:03

more monkeys somehow monkey showed

22:05

up to the set drunk didn't know

22:07

his lines real deep got a guy

22:09

out with the ad ripped

22:12

off our faces and hands there

22:14

were you know there was a monkey as one of the

22:16

hosts of john's npr show too which would be yeah on

22:18

radio really didn't play so maybe maybe you

22:22

can't hear the sign language well

22:27

thank you all so much for

22:29

sharing your your your

22:31

stories of we shouldn't really call

22:34

them failures of of of those

22:36

those pitches and of learning experience

22:38

of what might have been character

22:41

building yeah all

22:44

right once again if you had fun with

22:46

that and want to hear even more unscripted

22:49

show ideas that were unfortunately too pure for

22:51

this world check out the latest episode of

22:53

dead pilot society thank you again for listening

22:55

and please do support our show at

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