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America and any member of the SC. Hey

2:17

friendo CB here at Larson. And

2:19

welcome back to going in raw count out.

2:21

Woah, we're bringing count out back? Yeah, it's

2:24

been a while, looking at my watch here.

2:26

It's been a while, yeah. So here's

2:29

the deal, full transparency. Larson had a

2:31

travel day on Monday, which would leave

2:33

us with only 4 episodes for the

2:35

rest of the week. We gotta get

2:38

that 5th episode in Larson. We do.

2:40

All obligated to do 5 according to

2:42

our contract with friendo family LLC, Bill

2:44

and Bob friendo. Yeah, that's right. They

2:47

hold our feet to the fire man. You

2:50

think we're our own bosses? You'd

2:52

be wrong. Nah nah, we

2:55

get paid, I'm not even gonna say handsomely, by

2:58

Bill and Bob friendo and

3:01

uh, it's the modest sub. Yes.

3:05

A pittance if you will. They get all that

3:08

friendo club setup money man. Yeah, yeah. Anyways,

3:12

on this episode of count out, you're the one who came

3:15

up with this idea. I'm

3:17

assuming it's rooted the origins

3:20

in the ongoing beef

3:23

between Drake and

3:26

Kendrick Lamar. Am I correct? Yeah,

3:28

that's what inspired this idea. This is something

3:30

we've done in the past a couple times

3:33

in short form. We've done this actually twice. I think we

3:35

did in 2020 and then we did it again 3 or 4

3:37

years prior to that. Yeah,

3:42

right. But again,

3:44

in short form. We're talking about

3:46

real life pro wrestling beefs. Yeah

3:49

man, when the fake wrestling turns

3:52

real. Yeah, well not to say

3:54

these people actually, although maybe in some

3:56

cases they throw hands. This isn't wrestling matches that turned into

3:58

a match. shoot not bad

4:00

we've done that too we've done that too this

4:03

is backstage people didn't

4:06

like each other yeah right

4:08

yeah beef so let's go

4:10

now from what I know only

4:13

one person on

4:15

this list actually cut

4:18

a diss track that's correct on the

4:20

other guy we're gonna get to that

4:22

much later in the list but we'll

4:24

kick it off with number

4:27

10 and Vince

4:29

McMahon versus Ted

4:31

Turner this one seems a bit on

4:33

the one you know now

4:36

a bit one side in that Ted

4:39

didn't really seem to lose much sleep

4:41

over anything Vince did whereas Vince was

4:43

no at times that is what's

4:46

end over Ted and all

4:48

starts back in the

4:50

build-up to Black Saturdays my understanding is

4:52

because you know Vince one of that

4:54

time spot on TBS and

4:56

Ted said nah nah I

4:58

ain't giving it to you I ain't selling it to you

5:01

I ain't giving it to you sorry

5:03

not as good as a

5:07

will forte will forte the

5:10

best Ted Turner impression he had seen it

5:12

go check it out and

5:15

and so Vince went to I

5:18

think it Georgia Championship Wrestling which was right at

5:20

a time by Ollie Anderson tried to buy

5:22

his stake in it so we can get the time

5:24

spot by just buy into promotion Ollie said no so

5:26

he went to the briskos got

5:29

it from them so he had a majority

5:31

stake in it yeah and

5:33

Ted's like all right you can you

5:35

can air on Super Station to

5:38

caveats one ratings got to be good to

5:40

original content well yeah it was

5:42

new stuff and that it was new from what

5:44

people were used to it wasn't

5:47

original content therefore ratings in the

5:49

toilets with Ted says either you're gonna sell it back

5:51

to me or I'm gonna sue you yeah

5:53

I sold it back to him and it seemed

5:55

like Vince never really got over that that's the

5:58

time when he was just a cute me and

6:00

regulating territories and power

6:02

around the nation in

6:04

the mid 80s as far as wrestling business. And

6:07

it was like one of the rare times that someone said to him and

6:09

had the stroke to say to him, no. No.

6:12

No. Fast forward to the mid 90s. He

6:15

got Money Night Nitro launching in September of 1995 and

6:18

96. What does Vince do? He

6:21

airs a bunch of skits about billionaire

6:24

Ted. Billionaire Ted. Yeah.

6:27

And they're, yeah. Of

6:29

course they're awful. They're god awful. Because they're on the

6:31

time of the muckster and the nacho man. Yeah,

6:34

it's funny because Ted Turner was legitimately

6:36

like a media mogul. So

6:39

you know how it is like, you

6:42

know how it is like when

6:44

you're in school and

6:49

you know somebody who is, I don't know,

6:51

like a dork or they get picked on.

6:54

And then you see them like 30 years down the

6:57

line. It's difficult to divorce yourself of that

6:59

first impression. You always see them as like,

7:01

oh man, that guy used to get, he

7:03

might be a big, I'm gonna

7:05

always get his ass kicked. I've seen him get wedgies.

7:08

I suspect Ted

7:11

Turner always thought of Vince

7:13

McMahon as like a

7:15

yokel, carny, frickin, you

7:17

know, raffling promoter and

7:20

thought that he was amusing and

7:23

never like really a threat. Here's the funny

7:25

thing is like, Vince

7:28

McMahon would never have been in

7:30

position to buy anything from Ted

7:32

or to buy Ted Turner's

7:34

enterprise because Turner

7:36

Broadcasting was a massive,

7:39

massive deal. And

7:42

so all he could really do

7:44

is just have his wrestling company

7:46

compete with Ted's wrestling company which

7:48

was literally just a passion project

7:50

for Ted Turner. Ted Turner liked

7:52

the graps. He enjoyed pro wrestling.

7:54

And so he bankrolled his own

7:57

promotion. He was playing 2K in

7:59

real life. real life. Yeah, real life. He

8:01

said, yeah. Yeah. Like, but he

8:03

had much bigger, you know, issues to

8:05

deal with. So he probably just thought that Vince

8:07

was this funny little guy and, and

8:10

Vince considered Ted Turner. Oh, you know, and

8:13

I wonder if some of that dynamic

8:17

fueled Vince McMahon's dislike

8:19

of Ted Turner, you

8:21

know, the whole like, Oh, he just thinks

8:23

I'm carny. Yeah. And, and

8:25

he's a big deal. He's a much bigger deal

8:28

globally than I am. And that's

8:31

good. That had to, that had to really feel, you

8:33

know, I'm sure that's one of the viewed

8:35

as at the same level. Right.

8:38

Yeah. As Ted Turner issue is,

8:41

especially in the mid nineties, that would be wasn't

8:44

doing that hot. Right.

8:46

Yeah. And, you know, WCW was,

8:48

but one small aspect of the

8:50

larger Turner empire,

8:53

CNN, super station, so on.

8:56

So Turner classic movies. I wonder,

8:58

I think at this point, yeah, that Ted Turner was

9:01

already the owner of the Atlanta Braves. Yeah.

9:03

Yeah. He has a lot.

9:06

Yeah. WWF. Yeah.

9:08

Meanwhile, he just, you know, he had his little promotion

9:10

here and then the promotion wasn't so little anymore because

9:12

Eric Bischoff came along and was like, Hey, Vince

9:15

basically offloaded a bunch of his talent that still

9:17

has a lot of juice and he's trying to

9:20

rebuild. You know, if you let me sign up

9:22

all these old WWF names, maybe we can fool

9:24

people into thinking that this is WWF. And that's

9:26

kind of what they did, dude. I remember when

9:29

I turned on wrestling back in

9:31

1997 or whatever, and

9:33

I saw a whole coke in there. I was like, Oh, this

9:35

is the only reason I paid

9:37

attention to it. Cause it was like, Oh, is

9:40

this WWF? Where, what's, why is

9:42

it called WCW? Just looks like WWF

9:44

because everybody was there that I remember

9:46

from like my childhood watching like the

9:48

cartoons and stuff. And so,

9:51

and so anyways, it became, you know, we

9:53

don't have to rehash the stories, but it

9:56

turned into, into that the Monday night war.

10:00

again Ted Turner probably thought it was silly

10:02

and and thought it was you

10:04

know funny to stick it to Vince McMahon

10:06

who was all life dependent on WWF success

10:10

and eventually you know Vince McMahon oh I own

10:12

TNT it's like well yeah it's like he bought

10:14

it at a garage sale though you know what

10:16

I mean like oh a big deal yeah when

10:18

you got when you got WCW this is like

10:20

the billionaire Ted skits were just one

10:23

part of a larger plan

10:26

to try to discredit WCW. I mean

10:28

he tried to get like

10:30

one-page ads in newspapers

10:34

yeah I think only the New York Post would take it yeah

10:37

no everybody's like no we're not gonna run this I'm

10:39

not gonna run this. Should have got Basement National Enquirer.

10:42

You're Vendetta you

10:44

know and it's interesting that this whole

10:47

billionaire Ted thing led to USA Network

10:51

getting involved in what would be put on their

10:53

television show on Raw. It

10:55

was these skits that led to what's

10:57

the executive name Kay Koplovitz

11:00

no Koplovitz yeah I think that's

11:03

right apologies if not and

11:06

she wanted

11:09

scripts to go through USA executives

11:13

before being shot

11:15

and then aired on Raw. Yeah.

11:18

Which was a brand new thing because in the past

11:20

hadn't done it. Well yeah

11:22

you didn't think there was gonna be any

11:25

problems with you know getting into legal binds

11:27

with billionaires. Yeah. And yet

11:29

they're the one. Yeah rivalry for the

11:32

ages largely one-sided to be honest with the I

11:34

don't think Ted Turner really cared. I mean according

11:36

to this here Ted I

11:38

think we're reading this in the Guy

11:40

Evans Nitro book too. Ted

11:42

Turner thought it was pretty funny. Well

11:45

yeah it's funny because like there's that one

11:47

bit on one of those documentaries like The

11:49

Rise and Follow WCW or something like that

11:52

where Vince is like yeah Ted Turner

11:54

called me up was like I'm in

11:56

the pro wrestling business Vince well

11:58

I'm in the entertainment business. Ted that

12:00

is the cringiest shit cuz this dude this

12:02

billionaires is calling me out to be like

12:04

hey man Guess what? I'm for same

12:07

Z's now and he gets all offended

12:09

like well I'm not pro wrestling on entertainment and

12:11

Ted thought probably I was the funniest shit. Oh,

12:13

yeah Okay. Yeah entertainment

12:15

sure whatever You

12:17

know, okay Dark,

12:20

yeah, exactly. Oh Man,

12:23

anyways good stuff. All right, let's move on

12:25

to number nine Simon

12:27

gotch berries and Zohomore and then

12:30

and Zohomore tries to bury him

12:32

back So if

12:34

you're on YouTube and watch pro wrestling

12:36

content to any degree on YouTube from

12:38

what about? 2016

12:41

to 2019. Yeah odds

12:43

are you are recommended the video

12:45

Simon gotch berries and Zohomore is

12:48

about 16 minutes

12:50

of an 18 minute video where Simon gotch

12:52

just details Why

12:54

he doesn't like and Zohomore? Do

12:57

you think let me add this I'm knowing

12:59

what we do about YouTube Yeah, and granted

13:01

there are still many mysterious things about the

13:03

algorithm capital a Do

13:05

you think that this video is one of those

13:08

weird ones where? Even

13:10

if you watched it, it was

13:12

still pushed to you because I'm almost positive

13:14

that happened to me. I saw Tony

13:17

pizza guy. I think it was the other day Said

13:20

that there is a I'm trying to which one it was

13:22

but there was some video recently That

13:25

he said man, even though I've watched this thing

13:27

from beginning to end It

13:29

keeps on getting recommended to me And I don't know

13:31

if it's an algorithmic loop or if it determines that

13:33

people will watch it over and over again So it

13:36

does do that. It'd be nice to be the beneficiary

13:38

of one of those videos But

13:40

but this is at 1.9 million views

13:42

the Simon gotch version which is insane

13:44

for a shoot interview clip It's crazy.

13:46

Yeah, and you know, honestly do what

13:49

it is. I think it is one

13:51

of those things

13:53

where they Just

13:55

happened to catch his face

13:58

in a certain way manner

14:00

that triggers the brain into

14:03

wanting to know what the hell he's saying

14:05

in this moment. Talking about

14:07

Enzo Amore, it's like the perfect, it's

14:10

like Simon Gotts, relatively obscure

14:12

NXT short lived main roster

14:14

run. Enzo Amore, a very

14:16

controversial figure, but also a high profile figure

14:18

for a short period of time there in

14:20

WWE. What does

14:22

one have to say about the other? And

14:26

so it was one of those things that

14:28

was just like the perfect storm of YouTube

14:30

title, thumbnail and personalities involved. Yeah, it really

14:32

captured the zeitgeist in the wrestling world for

14:35

that period of time. And in

14:37

short, Simon Gotts again details numerous

14:39

stories about Enzo Amore, but

14:41

in short, he calls Enzo

14:44

a bullshit artist. Yeah,

14:46

right. He says Enzo claims to be

14:48

able to do a lot, claims

14:50

he has done a lot, but in fact,

14:53

seems like he's done very little of

14:55

those things or can do those things.

14:57

He points out things

15:00

and it's funny because

15:02

you can actually kind of

15:04

debate over whether or not the

15:07

things that Simon points out are

15:09

necessarily all that egregious. And in fact, in

15:11

like a different universe, this video

15:14

probably will have amassed 13,000 views

15:16

and that's it. And here's the thing too about

15:18

Simon's demeanor. He's not angry. No,

15:21

no. Simon's one of

15:23

those guys who, and Enzo I think points out

15:25

that Simon had been wrestling for like 10 years

15:28

prior to NXT, been wrestling pretty

15:30

young and he was pretty polished in terms

15:32

of being an indie worker. And

15:34

that's one of Simon's things

15:36

is Enzo grew up

15:38

in New Jersey where there's a million and one

15:40

wrestling schools and yet he never stepped foot in

15:43

one. And I prefer working with people who really

15:45

love the business. And so much of his criticism

15:47

of Enzo Amore was twofold.

15:50

Number one, he

15:52

didn't know a whole hell of a lot

15:54

about wrestling coming in, but the Problem

15:57

with that is because he was such

15:59

a bullshit archer. is it would end

16:01

up. Potentially. Being dangerous

16:03

in the range and ended up

16:05

causing issues. In the world of

16:07

wrestling for you know that the people around him

16:09

me or he points out the the spot where

16:12

he he you know and so knocked himself out

16:14

by trying to do a baseball slide under the

16:16

rope and and. You. Know catch himself.

16:18

but in terms of like Simon gods

16:20

clear I mean obviously knows what he's

16:23

talking about. When he points out it's

16:25

a Norman Smiley move to do that,

16:27

it's actually really interesting interview the to

16:30

hear him talk about the you know

16:32

the things that Enzo did wrong and

16:34

you know you you can. Maybe.

16:37

Debate a little bit. About the fact

16:39

that Enzo didn't he got signed a

16:42

debit of Developmental before even stepping foot

16:44

in wrestling school which is. A

16:46

testament to the guys charisma personalities. they're like

16:49

are we can teach this guy that stuff

16:51

you know but the other stuff. Ok

16:53

City staff, assets, sets of so ah

16:56

so yeah. and then Enzo More he

16:58

comes back with like his own. Sued

17:00

interviewers asked about him and you know

17:02

again, that's the kind of thing where

17:05

who knows how much is embarrassing, but

17:07

he tells a very juvenile story by

17:09

making fun of Simon. Guy says tax

17:11

and die and and so yeah, it's

17:14

it's sort of it's it's two sides

17:16

of the same. Story. Coin

17:18

I guess Now and I'm like you said, Simon

17:20

gods his race and I get I kind of

17:23

wonder if if some of the was you know.

17:25

Consignment of the come off as angry or anything

17:28

but the video blew up so much. That.

17:30

You can tell that might have had some the do

17:32

with the amount of venom that Enzo had to come

17:34

back with. You know that could be it. could be.

17:37

Yeah, yeah yeah. And you have made

17:39

it easier than ever to connect with

17:41

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17:43

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17:45

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17:47

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17:49

It's hard to find people that can help

17:51

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17:54

Well. Whether it's in everyday

17:56

maintenance and repairs, Are making dream

17:58

project reality? It can be hard

18:01

just to know where to start. But now

18:03

all you need to do is answer that

18:06

and find a skilled local pro who will

18:08

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18:11

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18:13

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18:15

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18:18

them your project online or with the

18:20

Angie app, answer a few questions,

18:22

and Angie can handle the rest from start

18:24

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18:26

compare quotes from multiple pros and

18:29

connect instantly. Which means you

18:31

can take care of just about any home

18:33

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18:35

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18:37

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19:21

eight. Eight. Triple

19:23

H and C-M-Punk. You know,

19:26

it's kind of nebulous. In

19:29

terms of the origins of this, because I've heard a

19:31

lot of things that Triple H just didn't like punk

19:33

coming in, that would be developmental. If

19:36

the thing I read is true, it

19:38

is the silliest fucking thing in

19:40

the world. And that's the Pepsi

19:42

plunge bearing some amount of similarity

19:44

to the pedigree. I

19:47

kind of suspect it's a little bit more than

19:49

that, though you gotta think that maybe, because

19:52

clearly when you look at Triple

19:55

H And the type of

19:57

wrestler he is, the type of wrestlers he hung around.

20:00

Look at Cm Punk. They.

20:02

Are from sort of different school? Oh

20:04

yeah, which is ironic given that enix.

20:06

t. Is. Basically an offshoot

20:08

of the school as the Unplugged. You

20:10

know it's like partially originally was partially

20:13

ring of honor he was courting that

20:15

sort of in the spirit for an

20:17

ex T, the big mass thing you

20:19

know, the long math thing, the work

20:21

rate thing which is all kind of

20:23

Cm Punk stuff. But

20:26

you know, Look Cm Punk

20:28

easy he freely says these days

20:30

I'm one of the pettiness man

20:32

and plan on planet Earth. And

20:36

who knows what else. About.

20:38

Him. Rubbed aaa to the

20:40

wrong way. It could simply be. Attitude.

20:43

You know I mean there are

20:45

certain people. I.

20:47

Think especially with Cm Punk when he had so

20:49

much success in the realm that he had success

20:52

in. To. Then come into Davita.

20:54

Be in for Paul Heyman to be

20:56

like his biggest fan. Basically you might

20:58

a rub. Some people are emmert. Ah

21:01

man, I think it was caught. Yeah with

21:03

Conrad, it was on Conrad podcast. When.

21:06

They were talking about our V D

21:08

and why he didn't get more success

21:10

in Debbie to be sooner. Conrad laid

21:12

the blame kind of pauline his feet

21:15

and said. When. A guy's

21:17

backstage telling everybody how great this

21:19

other guy is. It starts to

21:21

sour you on that guy. There

21:23

can be an overly obnoxious amount

21:25

of praise which will put yup,

21:28

the guy no matter how good

21:30

he is. No, I don't know.

21:32

that's the case was Cm Punk,

21:34

but Cm Punk did come with.

21:37

You. Know even back then you would think

21:39

he came with a certain. Reputation.

21:43

A certain A Claim Before even stepped

21:45

foot in W W E. I could

21:47

see that easily. rubbing some people the

21:49

wrong way. Entirely possible is entirely possible,

21:51

you know? And and in. However,

21:55

it started. You.

21:57

Know you got the stories about. The at the

21:59

height. It's punk's popularity triple

22:02

H beating him for some reason that's still weird

22:06

Yeah, like several like I remember around

22:08

that time too Like

22:11

you know what after the after the you know,

22:13

the 2011 money in the bank stuff How

22:16

like they didn't really shoot

22:18

him to the moon necessarily like he

22:21

got cashed in on by Alberto del Rio Kevin

22:24

Nash beat him Okay,

22:26

it was triple H beat him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

22:28

attacked him. I think Kevin Nash was supposed to rest

22:30

in punk Yeah, but then yeah, I think we were

22:32

supposed to add in the triple H had the match

22:34

and then beat him Yeah

22:38

Which might have I mean that might have

22:40

been Nash's spot in terms of like, you

22:42

know him beating CM Punk I don't know

22:44

maybe you know and and throughout 2011

22:48

especially there's this great contract signing between CM

22:50

Punk and John Cena. I believe for the

22:53

unification match WV title

22:55

at SummerSlam that

22:57

year I believe and

23:00

the way CM Punk goes off on

23:03

Triple H and there's there's

23:06

a gift for Triple H after CM

23:08

Punk drops the What

23:11

the home video

23:14

Insult about the chaperone. Mmm.

23:16

Oh, yeah Oh,

23:19

yeah, it looks like he's gonna cry for ya Routinely

23:22

punk would give Triple H on television

23:24

cry face. Yeah, and You

23:27

know, we've heard backstage that again

23:30

at the heights of pugs popularity Triple H was

23:32

advocating for Seamus to

23:34

be a guy and that would be to

23:36

succeed John Cena as The

23:39

face of the company and of course, you know the

23:41

day that punk walked out in 2014 He

23:46

Told Triple H that you need to wrestle

23:48

me at WrestleMania I don't need to wrestle

23:50

you because that was the plan bout for

23:52

him at WrestleMania 3rd Yeah,

23:55

yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so there's and you

23:57

know that one of the things that I

24:00

think both Triple H and CM Punk has said since CM

24:02

Punk came back to me is that they had to clear

24:04

the air. They had

24:07

to resolve to a certain degree whatever

24:09

issues they had in the past for them to move

24:11

forward. So you know regardless

24:13

of where it started and exactly how deep rooted

24:15

the issues were between them it was enough of

24:17

a gulf that they both felt like they had

24:19

to overcome that and patch things up

24:21

enough for them to move forward as

24:25

professionals in the second tenure of

24:28

CM Punk and WWE. Yeah

24:30

it's funny because I'm looking at his

24:32

cage match here and it's

24:34

like all throughout, all

24:37

throughout, where is this, that

24:40

summer of 2011, oh I'm going the wrong

24:42

way, it was just like the house

24:45

show after house show of Alberto Del Rio beating

24:47

CM Punk. Maybe that's gonna

24:49

be why. Maybe.

24:52

Like what the hell you got me doing out here man, what the hell's going

24:54

on? Yeah. Yeah.

24:57

Yeah Punk's never been more Punk. Like you said. He's

24:59

the top guy in the company in terms of popularity losing to Alberto

25:01

all through the summer huh? Yeah exactly. Like

25:05

yeah I'm gonna go to a house show and see you

25:07

know my favorite wrestler CM Punk loses to Alberto, that would

25:09

suck. But yeah

25:11

I know it honestly it just seemed like

25:13

a guy who you know Triple H, Mr.

25:15

WWE in the system, ingrained in the system,

25:17

the heir apparent, the guy who's gonna run

25:20

the place and then this

25:22

cocky bastard CM Punk doing things his

25:24

way, that's gonna rub people the wrong

25:26

way. It could be and especially if

25:29

Heyman is talking up Punk to such

25:31

a degree that in the minds

25:33

of people backstage, yes there's gonna

25:35

be some resentment for sure about someone

25:38

being talked up so highly but then the bar is

25:40

set so incredibly high. Yeah right.

25:43

That if Punk doesn't just reach

25:45

it but exceed it, everybody's gonna

25:47

think well what's the huge deal about this guy? Mmhmm

25:50

yeah. I have in some

25:52

respects a no win situation for him I

25:54

suppose. That regardless of what he does,

25:56

I remember reading the thing earlier today about how he

25:58

had a tryout match. dark match and

26:02

everybody backstage was perfect to say, oh, good job. It

26:04

was really good. Except Triple H. And

26:06

apparently Sean Michaels. I

26:09

think that was the Pepsi plunge one. That was like

26:11

he used, he used the Pepsi plunge and it kind

26:13

of bears like a resemblance to the, yeah, it's like

26:15

a pedigree on the top rope. Yeah. Or

26:18

top rope. Yeah. Um, and,

26:21

uh, and, and who knows? Maybe if CM Punk came

26:23

backstage or maybe if he was like, Hey, I've got

26:25

this move called the Pepsi plunge, kind

26:27

of looks like a pedigree. Mind if I, you know, are

26:29

you cool? If I use that, you know how wrestlers. Yeah.

26:31

They get, they get, they're really territorial about stuff. Who

26:35

was it recently that, uh, yeah. Randy Orton

26:37

said that about, uh, somebody uses

26:40

a cutter of some sort. He

26:42

was like, yeah, I asked you, you asked

26:44

me if I could use this. I don't know what it was, but,

26:47

uh, but yeah, anyways, I

26:49

watched the, uh, the, uh,

26:51

CM Punk, Randy Orton match.

26:53

Oh, and the rest of your 20th sentiment. It's

26:56

really, it's, it's a really cool watch. Yeah.

26:58

It's a really, the Orton just seems so,

27:01

so chill these days. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's

27:03

pretty great. All right. Let's go ahead and

27:05

move on to number seven. John

27:08

Cena and the rock. The final boss.

27:10

The final boss. So this is back

27:12

in their WrestleMania 28 to 29. So

27:15

I guess it starts wrestling at 27, like

27:18

a two plus year thing. Um,

27:21

and John Cena

27:23

has been very

27:26

apologetic about his part in,

27:28

in this beef, because in

27:32

his viewpoint, he went about things in his,

27:35

in his word in a disrespectful way. He was

27:37

talking to crap a little bit about the rock

27:39

leaving W to go to Hollywood and

27:42

interviews. Well, I got, I

27:44

got this quote right here from this interview. There

27:46

you go. He says, uh, this is my take

27:48

on the rock and he's genuinely a nice guy.

27:51

I've met him and he's a fantastic human being.

27:54

What I kind of get peeved about is, and

27:56

I guess this is my flaw because I hear

27:58

it every day with young talent. card talent

28:00

with people aspiring to make it in this business, I

28:03

hear, I wanted to do this my whole

28:05

life. Rock falls into that

28:07

category. At one point, he loved wrestling and

28:09

wanted to do this his whole life. Then

28:12

explain to me why he can't come back

28:14

for an anniversary show, why he can't make

28:16

an appearance at WrestleMania. Simply

28:18

put, it's because he wants to be an actor. And

28:20

there's nothing wrong with that. He's a very good actor.

28:23

He's very successful. He's done very well for himself. And

28:25

associating with sports entertainment doesn't do much for his

28:27

acting career, so I get why he doesn't come

28:29

back. Just don't fuck me

28:31

around and tell me that you love wrestling when

28:34

you're doing it to do something else." End

28:37

quote. So that seemingly was

28:39

the thing that Rock really took issue

28:41

with. That

28:43

Cena said, oh, he doesn't love it because he's

28:46

not here very often. He just used it to

28:48

get to acting. So I got some quotes here

28:50

from Brian Gortz, close collaborator with Rock, about

28:53

the beef. What

28:57

is this for? Under

29:00

the Ropes podcast. This is from a

29:02

couple years ago. So he says, obviously Rock versus Cena

29:05

on paper, that's box office. In reality, that's box office.

29:07

But the fact of the matter is, they weren't on

29:09

the same page in the beginning. And

29:11

it was real life animosity between them that

29:13

obviously has dissipated. They're really good friends now.

29:15

He continues, it was heated. I

29:17

was literally in the middle of them in rooms trying

29:20

to be like, you guys, if you just get to

29:22

know each other, you'd be such great friends. It started

29:24

with an interview that John had done in the United

29:26

Kingdom, whatever the language that he used.

29:28

It rubbed Dwayne the wrong way, some simmering

29:30

tension from the very beginning. And

29:32

I'm sure when John Cena pointed out that Rock had

29:35

notes for his promo on his hand or his wrist,

29:37

whatever it was, that didn't help matters

29:39

either. Throughout their

29:41

feud, it

29:44

seemed like, especially in hindsight,

29:46

they constantly tried to prod

29:48

one another. Yeah,

29:51

you know what's funny is that I've

29:55

often talked about, whenever

29:58

there's, I'll give you an example. the

30:00

in advance of WrestleMania, the promo

30:02

between Seth Rollins, Drew McIntyre and

30:04

CM Punk, how yeah,

30:07

they were all going at it, but

30:10

they would all sell each other as well. Especially

30:13

Drew McIntyre losing his cool

30:16

in character to CM

30:18

Punk exposing some vulnerability, some weakness.

30:23

And that's when wrestling is at its best. When

30:25

everybody understands this is a performance and

30:27

there's give and take. With

30:30

Cena and Rock, there

30:33

was no give, it

30:35

was all take. It was these

30:37

guys are both trying to get over

30:39

on the other one in these

30:42

promo battles. And some of it came

30:45

off as a bit awkward. When Cena

30:47

got the Rock with that wrist bit,

30:50

that was jaw drop. Yeah. Because

30:52

you could see the look on the Rock's face and

30:54

he was not happy. It was like, there is no

30:56

way that this is planned. And

30:59

so, I mean, it did make for some

31:01

when done, when

31:04

I guess done effectively, it can make

31:06

for some really compelling television. But

31:09

it's also like, okay, how is this going

31:11

to pay off? You know, like, are they

31:13

going to get on the same page to

31:15

have a pro wrestling match where they have

31:17

to be on the same page? Well, I

31:19

mean, also just go back to the promo

31:22

thing. It's this is something that Tony Khan has

31:24

yet to learn, I think. And

31:26

we saw it during the Cena

31:29

and Rock's promo bits, where

31:32

there's a line you have to tow

31:34

where, yeah, it's a constant game of

31:37

one-upsmanship and it's take,

31:39

take, take, because

31:41

you're not on the same page. But

31:44

for it to be truly effective, for it

31:46

to not be awkward, to have the moments

31:48

like when Cena called out the notes on

31:50

the wrist, but

31:53

then follow that up with something that's interesting and captivating

31:55

and propels the story forward. They have to take a

31:57

step back and make a step

32:00

back from their personal beef and

32:02

realize we're not here to get our

32:04

each like us individually over

32:07

we're here to get the story over.

32:10

And you just can't toss two people in

32:12

a ring with microphones with issues and expect

32:14

to get captivating television because it's just as

32:16

likely you get something awkward and

32:18

cringy. And

32:20

it's been plainly obvious to anybody

32:22

watching these guys are none on the

32:25

same page as opposed to oh this

32:27

is electric because you could feel the tension between the

32:29

two of them. Because

32:31

you're right if there's no give in the

32:34

back and forth promos no

32:36

one's selling anything nothing's gonna nothing's gonna

32:39

really hit apart from the gotcha moments.

32:42

Yeah that said there are some things and I think

32:44

this is sort of one of them that

32:47

the sheer magnitude of

32:49

the box office the name value really

32:51

did carry it to it to another

32:53

high and in fact according

32:56

to this I don't know when this article was written

32:58

here but it

33:00

would make sense that the record stood oh this is

33:02

2020 okay so yeah this record

33:04

would have stood highest

33:07

biggest box office of all time for WrestleMania

33:10

in terms of pay-per-view buys now obviously with

33:12

the WWE Network pay-per-views buys became a

33:15

thing of the past really but

33:18

at that point 1.217 million

33:22

pay-per-view buys for that match

33:24

so yeah pretty pretty

33:26

big business there yep yep anyways

33:30

let's go ahead and move on

33:32

to number six six Jim

33:35

Cornette and Vince

33:37

Russo bro they

33:39

don't like each other they don't like each other

33:42

and this and I'm sure there

33:44

are incidents between the two of

33:46

them but this seems to be

33:48

at its root at its core

33:50

a philosophical difference in terms of how

33:52

to approach pro wrestling and

33:55

they're coming crazy there's death threats over there

33:57

I know I know how ridiculous

33:59

is that there's been or strating orders issued

34:01

stuff because of pro wrestling. If

34:04

you're at all familiar with Jim Cornette's viewpoint about professional wrestling, it

34:07

was very much rooted in the 1970s and 80s. Sure,

34:10

he's got a very conservative, strict view of

34:13

what professional wrestling should be. Certain

34:15

conventions he thinks are universal in pro

34:17

wrestling and shouldn't really be fucked with.

34:19

No, not, yeah, it should not be

34:21

altered or changed or shouldn't evolve or

34:23

progress in any manner. Yeah.

34:26

That Jim Cornette's viewpoint. Vince Russo,

34:28

I don't think actually likes wrestling,

34:31

the in ring part of it. He sees

34:33

wrestling television as an opportunity to

34:36

do salacious, shocking smash TV stuff.

34:39

Yeah. He gives zero shit

34:41

about the traditions and

34:44

conventions of professional wrestling. You

34:47

put those two combustible elements in

34:49

a room together, of course there's

34:51

gonna be issues, especially when they both have large

34:54

personalities. Yeah,

34:57

right. And so according to

34:59

this article from the Sportster

35:01

here, I

35:04

guess this comes from, oh,

35:06

okay, Jim Cornette's own podcast here,

35:09

some transcripts. Apparently,

35:11

Jim Cornette,

35:14

this is, I guess, it all sort of began when

35:16

they were both working on Monday Night Raw together. Of

35:19

course, Vince Russo, his philosophy had really sort

35:21

of taken, I think, Vince McMahon, he

35:24

had taken a fancy to Vince Russo's philosophies

35:26

on pro wrestling, hey, let's ditch

35:28

the old school philosophies and

35:30

let's go with this crash TV philosophy. And

35:33

so I guess Cornette was upset

35:36

that Vince Russo was just booking

35:39

a ton of DQs for some

35:41

of these match finishes and Russo,

35:43

apparently, is response to one of

35:46

these. So I guess Cornette

35:48

was like, hey, what's up with this? Another DQ. And

35:51

Russo answered him with a DQ Schmeek

35:53

you, nobody cares. And

35:56

then Cornette went running to Vince and told him. uh...

36:01

before too long cornet was gone in the

36:03

before too long russo was both gone and

36:05

apparently they both somehow somebody thought it

36:07

was a good idea to put them both together t and a

36:11

one of many natural ideas uh... everything from

36:13

t and a this email that apparently he

36:15

wrote the terry taylor after you know while

36:17

being dismissed fired or

36:19

leaving whatever the case may be depending on who

36:21

you're asking uh... this

36:23

is from the same sports article this apparently sent

36:25

this email terry taylor quote

36:28

i hate this russo i'd just buys that

36:30

through so i want to be through so

36:32

to die if i could

36:34

figure out a way to murder him without going

36:36

to prison i would consider it the greatest accomplishment

36:38

of my life the house so

36:41

what do you need today it's

36:45

a good legal counsel about all this mm

36:48

and told them that no more of this charges

36:51

might be pressed remember i think

36:53

i can't i think it was the brawl for

36:56

all dark side or court they

36:58

interviewed cornet and vince russo

37:01

and i think it is either that one of the

37:03

uh... montreal screw job uh...

37:06

or cornet says i think

37:09

he said the i'd i'd i'd promise my wife

37:11

i'm a live long enough to piss on vince

37:13

russo's grave that sounds

37:15

right yeah and that was probably the

37:17

he seemed to be more upset with

37:19

russo during the brawl for all episodes

37:21

of the fight again people hurt yeah

37:24

right and you know say

37:26

which about the say which you will about cornet

37:28

i'm not i'm not a fan of the guy

37:30

stand up but

37:32

i also whenever i've heard his

37:35

various philosophies on on pro wrestling

37:38

i don't agree with some of them but i do agree

37:40

with some of them you know like when it comes to

37:43

certain conventions of pro wrestling i would take

37:45

those over other conventions that i've heard like

37:47

vince russo i've never heard an idea from

37:49

in through so that i think i've appreciated

37:51

i could be wrong about that and i

37:53

understand that he wrote a lot of the

37:55

attitude arista went to the

37:57

vince filter soon as you know what was

37:59

what Like when you see his stuff

38:01

in WCW, when he came in, I gave

38:03

that a shot. I really did. And

38:06

I was like, this is not good at

38:08

all. It was awful. It was awful. It's really

38:10

bad. And

38:14

Cornette does make a really good interview on those

38:16

dark sides. And when

38:20

he said, and it made a lot of sense on the

38:22

Brawl for All episode, when he said,

38:24

you know, I've seen too many people who

38:26

don't respect this, I've seen too many people

38:28

get hurt to accept

38:30

somebody coming in and not respecting what

38:32

pro wrestling is, because

38:35

these people, they need

38:37

to come out of this with their

38:39

lives intact and their bodies intact. And

38:42

so there are things that he has said,

38:44

I don't think he's, you know, there

38:49

are things that Cornette has said that I'm like, okay, yeah, that

38:51

makes sense. But there's plenty that I

38:53

disagree with. But

38:55

yeah, no, it is kind of interesting

38:57

that like, you know, and then later

38:59

on, Russo got a restraining

39:01

order against Cornette for

39:04

whatever reason. And it's just like, over,

39:08

like, and you gotta ask yourself, I wanna

39:10

like, do these guys play into it in

39:12

order to get, you

39:15

know, the more views and more controversy and, you

39:17

know, if they know that it's a well they

39:19

can go to, you gotta ask yourself, what's the

39:21

pro wrestling? They're

39:24

working to get it, maybe, who knows, to a degree. Who

39:26

knows? You never know. All right, let's go ahead

39:28

and move on to number five. Five. Bret

39:31

Hart and Bill Goldberg. Bill?

39:35

Bill? Bill Goldberg. It is

39:37

interesting, cause I've noticed this, you have some notes

39:39

here, you put in the notes about how there

39:42

was a distinct pivot, or at

39:44

least somewhat of a pivot from Bret Hart regarding

39:48

his view of

39:50

Bill Goldberg before Goldberg

39:52

came back to WWE. And

39:55

after. Yeah. Cause

39:57

it seemed like once Goldberg's career was over. After

40:00

leaving W be in 2003, I believe You

40:04

know the the kick to the head The

40:06

concussions all that kind of water under the bridge

40:09

seemed like they worked it all out Yeah,

40:12

so specifically here because I found this

40:14

thread on reddit and it's all quotes

40:16

from various Bret Hart Things

40:18

his autobiography and others interviews

40:21

in 2007 He had

40:23

this to say about Goldberg and the kick

40:25

He says I was more responsible than anyone

40:28

for downplaying my condition to myself and everyone

40:30

else I let myself go on

40:32

believing the problem was a sore neck. I've

40:34

always had a lot of respect for bill He

40:36

doesn't have a mean bone in his body and

40:38

what happened. It was just part of the job

40:41

I do wish he had been a little bit more

40:43

careful, but we've always been friends over the years Fast

40:46

forward five years in 2012 He responded

40:48

to a fan when asked about a grudge

40:50

with Goldberg and he says never had one

40:52

I have great respect for Goldberg what happened

40:54

to me was an accident 20

40:57

in 2015 and those pictures available online Brett

40:59

posted a picture of him and bill hanging

41:01

out He

41:04

and then 2016

41:07

happens Goldberg comes back

41:09

to WWE big deal

41:12

beats Brock has a couple of big money

41:14

matches as a couple more big money matches

41:17

there He's probably done

41:19

at this point But

41:23

Yeah, and at that point it seemed like from

41:25

then on Every

41:28

opportunity he had Brett

41:30

would run down Bill Goldberg And

41:34

again, you got to ask yourself. All right, is this

41:36

a case of Well

41:38

thought he was done in the business So

41:41

no harm. No foul. I'm not gonna

41:43

pile on the guy and then he

41:46

comes back and makes a shit ton of

41:48

money It's like

41:50

what what the hmm.

41:52

Mm-hmm. Yeah, or Or

41:55

is it just like he came back and Brett was like,

41:57

hey, it'd be kind of funny If I started running this

41:59

guy down every opportunity I had. I

42:02

don't know. I don't know either. What

42:04

do you think is more likely? There's been a

42:07

couple instances where Brett has mentioned that

42:09

kick to the head and the subsequent

42:11

health issues in early retirement that sprung

42:14

from that kick to the head cost

42:17

him money. Mm-hmm, yeah. So

42:19

I wonder if there's a part of Brett who

42:23

thinks to himself, because

42:25

of that kick, I lost out of

42:27

millions of dollars and yet here's Bill

42:29

Goldberg being celebrated upon his

42:31

return to WWE making a ton of

42:33

money. Mm-hmm,

42:35

yeah. And why?

42:39

You know, where's the fairness in that?

42:43

Yeah, right, yeah. I could see something

42:45

like that, you know, because Brett's also

42:47

said, you know, wrestlers

42:49

who hurt other wrestlers shouldn't be in the Hall of

42:51

Fame. Mm-hmm, yeah. Right.

42:55

Goldberg again. Yeah. So

42:57

maybe it's a situation where if Goldberg

42:59

after leaving, because it's not like the

43:02

end of his first run of WWE was

43:05

like some great victory lap, you know? Mm-hmm,

43:08

sure. A culmination of a career, he just kind of

43:10

went out with a whimper. Mm-hmm, yeah.

43:12

And if that was the end of it, I'm sure

43:14

Brett would be like, all right, well, he's another footnote

43:17

in the history of wrestling, you

43:19

know, a bit of a one-hit wonder who rose

43:21

to the heights of the industry

43:23

really quickly and didn't stick around that long.

43:26

A lot of wrestlers who kind of fit that bill. Mm-hmm.

43:29

Yeah. Yeah. Bill,

43:32

but having Goldberg

43:34

come back and get that bit of a

43:37

victory lap. Yeah. That

43:39

might kind of stick in the craw

43:41

of Brett. Because Brett never got that. He

43:44

was forced into retirement. You

43:47

got to wonder also if,

43:50

if let's say for, let's say it's

43:52

not that. Mm-hmm.

43:54

Bill Goldberg has always been,

43:57

you know, he does interviews on a

43:59

relatively right Yeah. You

44:02

got to wonder if there's something Bill

44:04

Goldberg might have said that

44:07

Bret Hart took us, you know, like

44:09

around maybe that time. Took issue with

44:11

maybe, yeah. That really took, that

44:13

he took issue with it, or he didn't pay

44:15

a proper respect. You know, Bret

44:18

endured so much bullshit in

44:20

his time in WWE, and

44:24

you know, he had that pretty decent send

44:26

off in 2010, and

44:30

maybe Bill Goldberg coming back and being so,

44:32

like you say, celebrated and being in the

44:34

ring, and being really bad

44:36

in the ring, but still getting those big

44:39

paydays. Maybe

44:42

with something Goldberg said, I don't know, only Bret Hart really

44:44

knows why there did seem to

44:47

be kind of a change in,

44:49

you know, how he viewed Goldberg, or at least

44:52

how he talked about him publicly. Yeah.

44:55

That was a pretty big change there, and who knows, maybe he just ought

44:57

to be a funny troll to just like,

44:59

continually every time he speaks, he talks about

45:01

him. I'll be honest, whenever he mentions Goldberg,

45:05

I find myself kind of chuckling about it. Sometimes

45:09

when he mentions Goldberg, he has

45:11

like, kind of, it's like he's trying to

45:13

stifle a smile. Yeah, I know.

45:15

You know? So, like part of me thinks,

45:17

I don't know, maybe Bret's a

45:19

unique fella. He is. Maybe

45:22

it's just a big troll, and he

45:24

thinks it's funny to run the guy down that

45:27

frigging ended his career left and right. I don't

45:29

know. I don't know. He didn't

45:31

clue Goldberg in on it, because... Evidently

45:33

not. Now whenever Goldberg's

45:35

asked about Bret, he

45:38

gets super defensive about it. He does, yeah.

45:40

I apologize a bunch of times. Yeah.

45:43

You know? And always just

45:45

gets super defensive about the whole situation. So...

45:48

Yeah. I wonder if there's something Goldberg said. I don't

45:50

know. Anyways, let's move on

45:53

to number four! Four! Scott

45:55

Steiner versus Ric Flair! Ric

45:58

Flair? That butt suck! Rick

46:00

Flair. Thank you. So I'll never

46:02

forget watching WCW and

46:05

watching, I don't know, like the NWO

46:07

lingering about, mollingering about in the ring. In

46:10

my head it's this, it's not him solo.

46:12

He's in the ring and I think Jeff

46:14

Jarrett hands the mic off to him and

46:16

he's supposed to cut a promo on whoever

46:18

he's feuding with, it's not Rick Flair. No.

46:20

And he just starts cutting the savage promo

46:23

on Rick Flair blaming him for people going

46:25

to see Stone Cold Steve Austin on the

46:27

other channel. Yeah. And here's the thing, apparently

46:29

if the story is to be believed, this all

46:31

goes back to 1991 Steve,

46:34

for a match, a single match

46:36

in 91. So this is from Arne

46:38

Anderson's podcast, he talks about it and

46:40

there's, this

46:42

is from SportsGita. So

46:46

apparently there's a match at Clash of Champions, that's

46:48

what Arne speculated. And it was

46:50

when Jim Hurd was running WCW, so that was probably

46:52

around the time that Jim Hurd was like, hey, Rick

46:54

Flair, you're going to be Spartacus and shave your head.

46:57

And apparently Scott Steiner was getting a bit of

47:00

a push. So Scott was

47:02

of the belief after this match of

47:04

Clash of Champions, that Rick didn't give

47:06

his all to the match, so

47:09

Scott Steiner wouldn't be

47:11

elevated essentially. And,

47:14

you know, who knows if this is the

47:16

start of the issues and

47:18

other things compounded or if this is all

47:21

it is. You know,

47:23

the belief that, oh,

47:25

Rick Flair is trying to hold me down by not having

47:27

a Rick Flair match, you know? And

47:30

there is also in the SportsGita article

47:32

about it, Lance Dore apparently

47:35

wrote about it because

47:37

he's faced both Rick Flair and Scott Steiner

47:40

about whether Flair purposely

47:43

had a less than

47:45

great match so Steiner wouldn't look good or not.

47:51

And so Lance Dorems says,

47:55

Rick has, oh, sorry, he says, my vantage point is a guy who's

47:57

wrestled both these guys and seen a ton of their work. I think

47:59

it's a bit... of both whether

48:01

it's Rick putting

48:04

on a bad match purposely or

48:07

Rick saying no I didn't do that he says

48:10

I think the biggest problem was that they had

48:12

very contradictory style Scotty had been getting over with

48:14

a more physical style of match that

48:16

involves some Steiner specific moves and

48:19

Flair has the bumps he likes to

48:22

take and is used to running a

48:24

match his way so maybe it's just one

48:26

of those situations where it's two styles it didn't mesh

48:29

where Rick Flair because there was something in

48:31

there about Flair you know

48:33

that the whole Spartacus thing well Flair wanted to

48:35

prove that he could still be a top guy

48:38

so he just does it by making sure Scott Steiner

48:40

and getting his shit in. Yeah I don't

48:45

know man I want you would think

48:47

you would think that it might

48:49

have been because the Steiner's moved around

48:51

a little bit it could

48:54

be you know that that that point too

48:56

Rick Flair had he had the book and

48:58

he always had influence in WCW and

49:00

maybe it was just a matter of you know the more

49:04

time went on the more

49:06

Flair rubbed him the wrong way and

49:09

at that point in WCW the inmates are

49:11

running the asylum yeah and so he goes

49:13

out there on a mic hey you butt

49:15

sucker you know trash this

49:18

is why people have changed the channels place sucks

49:20

like but they're paying the pearly now if you

49:22

bring up Rick Flair to Scott Steiner he'll still

49:24

cut a promo on him. Yeah

49:27

that's true for a couple people like Stephanie

49:29

McMahon too you know your

49:32

Triple H yeah anyways

49:34

best to move on from that one. Number

49:37

three! C.M. Punk

49:39

and the Elite.

49:42

Whether it's well we all know the

49:44

story of this one. All Elite, New

49:46

Elite, doesn't matter. Punk has beef with

49:49

maybe everybody but Kenny. Seemingly

49:52

not Kenny but certainly Hangman.

49:54

Certainly the Young Bucks. And

49:56

now Jack Perry. Definitely

49:58

Jack Perry. Newly, I don't

50:00

think he's got all the entity issue with a cotta. No, I don't

50:02

think he's got a cop rainmaker. No Here's

50:06

the cliff notes There is

50:08

rumors going around the cm punk Cost

50:11

colt cabana his job in aew apparently is

50:13

going around backstage before it ever reached you

50:16

know outside of aew and

50:21

Eventually those rumors did get out and

50:24

that cm

50:26

punk thought it was The

50:29

young bucks or the elite getting

50:31

those rumors out as we

50:33

mentioned it brawl out He

50:35

felt that Adam page hangman page was

50:37

referencing those rumors when talking about the

50:39

workers, right? workers rights line

50:42

in a promo During their

50:45

program of course cm punk after getting

50:47

the title from John

50:49

Moxley Did

50:51

the brawl out thing? went

50:54

off So

50:57

they couldn't run a target Called

50:59

page an empty-headed dumbfuck Wow

51:03

and then if there was a fight afterwards We

51:05

don't know the details eventually came back. He

51:08

came back He did the thing where he has his belt

51:11

and he sat in the ring called out hangman Said

51:14

the the apology should be as loud as

51:16

public as a disrespect You

51:19

know like that that the

51:21

other were the real world's channel. Yeah, the

51:23

spray decks through it was very cool but

51:26

that was pretty neat so and Eventually

51:28

Jack Perry gets brought in this because it seemed like

51:31

there was a divided

51:33

locker room Mmm punk

51:35

had had accumulated some

51:38

friends in the locker room And

51:41

of course there's gonna be people in the locker room

51:43

that were loyal to the elite And

51:45

perhaps Jack Perry was one of those people we don't

51:47

know we do know that he had his own incident

51:49

with cm punk And

51:52

the issue there was you know, we've talked about

51:54

plenty. He wanted to use real windshield

51:56

for a spot barely a bunch of people talk to

51:58

him. He couldn't be convinced so as tells that he

52:00

went up to him and said calmly again,

52:04

if you wreck a rental car, it's

52:07

going to be a bad look for

52:09

pro wrestlers and potentially jeopardize our ability

52:11

to rent cars. Yeah, right. And so,

52:14

Jack Perry relented. Then

52:16

that story gets out. And

52:19

the assumption I would assume from Jack Perry is CM

52:21

Punk or his camp got that out

52:24

there. It's Crybia River, real

52:26

glass at all in the

52:29

chokehold backstage. And

52:33

both parties are still making references to all that.

52:35

I mean, Jack Perry is doing a

52:37

hell of a job using that incident to

52:39

develop a character that's actually working for him.

52:43

Yeah. You know, the root

52:45

of this whole thing seems

52:47

to be

52:49

where the young bucks in

52:53

their camp ever,

52:56

for the young bucks in page, were

52:58

they ever fully on board CM

53:01

Punk coming into the company. And

53:07

because it seemed like towards the beginning,

53:09

everything was okay. And

53:12

then this Colt Cabana business happened and

53:15

they couldn't get on the same page

53:17

after that, so to speak, because

53:20

the thing that struck me the most was

53:22

in CM Punk talked about it.

53:24

Because when originally it was reported

53:27

about the workers rights line in

53:29

Hangman Page's promo, I

53:31

never got the gist that the entire

53:33

promo was wholesale different from, I just

53:35

thought, oh, he dropped that one line

53:37

in there, which wasn't all that terribly

53:40

different from what Eddie Kingston was saying

53:42

in their promo and that feud went

53:44

off well. Yeah, nothing about it seemed

53:46

bad out of the norm. No.

53:51

From CM Punk's telling, that

53:53

entire promo, everything that

53:56

Page did, was

53:58

not agreed upon between

54:00

the two of them, so Punk didn't have, he

54:02

was like, I don't know where this is going now.

54:05

So now things are weird and awkward

54:07

on national television for a title feud.

54:10

And you sort of get, it's like, oh

54:12

yeah, that would be weird. Like that's, you're

54:15

really putting somebody out there. It's not just

54:17

a line, it's like a whole

54:19

world title segment for

54:21

this feud that's supposed to be kicking off. And

54:23

now you're just playing games out

54:26

on live national television. So

54:29

yeah, I don't know, man, I don't know. Somebody

54:31

will write a book one day. Hopefully, hopefully,

54:34

hopefully. Let's move on to

54:36

number two. To the

54:38

Macho Man Randy Savage versus

54:41

Hulk Hogan. This

54:43

is the one last one where we actually

54:45

got a diss track.

54:47

We did. A rap song

54:49

cut by the Macho Man

54:51

Randy Savage. Called Be A Man.

54:54

Be A Man, Be A Man. Yeah.

54:56

Be A Man. So I guess apparently

54:58

this all started because they were friends

55:02

as the story goes. I think they were

55:04

neighbors, basically. They lived in Tampa or whatever.

55:07

And Randy and

55:09

Elizabeth were close to Hogan and his

55:11

wife. But then when

55:13

Randy and Elizabeth got divorced,

55:16

Randy blamed Hogan and his

55:18

wife for driving a wedge

55:20

between himself and Elizabeth. And

55:23

apparently couldn't get over that. Or

55:25

could be convinced otherwise. And

55:28

it was like just all, because that

55:30

was probably what in the early 90s? It

55:33

was like 93. And

55:36

93 was like the big, I guess,

55:38

blow up. Yeah. When like

55:41

Elizabeth went to go stay with the

55:43

Hogan's and Savage was like

55:45

blaming Hogan for taking sides and then it

55:48

just completely blew up. Yeah. Yeah.

55:51

So, and you know, I think

55:54

Hogan, maybe even Lenny Poffo

55:56

has talked about whether they had reconciled. Hogan

56:00

claims they did. Yeah, so. Do

56:02

you recall what Papo said? I don't recall offhand.

56:04

I remember Hogan saying something to, like, you walk

56:06

into a doctor's office and Randy was there. They

56:09

hugged an old brother, which, all right, Hulkster.

56:11

Yeah, right, I mean, it feels like if Hogan

56:13

says something, it's like you go the other way,

56:15

you know? Pretty much, yeah. Like they ran into

56:17

each other at a Del Taco and actually fought.

56:19

Yeah, yeah. And after which Macho Man sat down

56:22

and wrote Be a Man, you know?

56:24

Yeah, right, exactly. I have the lyrics here for Be a Man.

56:26

Oddly enough, so do I. Awesome.

56:28

Go ahead and kick this off. Huh.

56:32

Hulk Hogan, Hollywood Hulkster. Whatever they call

56:34

you, I'm coming after you, you

56:36

coward. Hot diggity damn, Hulk.

56:39

Afraid you set it off. Used to be hard, Hulk.

56:41

Now you're done turned soft. Doing

56:43

telephone commercials, I seen ya. Dancing

56:46

in tights as a ballerina. I knew all

56:48

along you had those tendencies because you've been

56:50

running from Macho Man like I got a

56:52

disease. Dude, please, your pay-per-view

56:55

event was a joke. You're avoiding Randy Savage

56:57

because you know you'll get smoke, come on.

56:59

That phony fight, the Rock spanked you fast, but

57:01

when I challenged Hogan to a real fight, he

57:04

passed. I called him out, but the punk

57:06

was scared to go. It was a charity event, but the Hulk

57:08

didn't show. Hollywood Hulkster, you're at the

57:10

end of your rope and I'm gonna kick you

57:12

in the butt and wash your mouth out with

57:14

soap because you're like Rodney Dangerfield, he gets no

57:16

respect. So come on, Hulk, let's wreck.

57:18

I could put you in check. Come

57:23

on, don't be scared. You're running from Macho,

57:25

that's what I heard. Be a man, Hogan. There

57:28

you go. Come on, don't be a chump. I never thought

57:30

Hulk would go out like a punk. Be a man, Hulk.

57:33

Come on, don't be scared. You're running from Macho, that's

57:35

what I heard. Be a man, Hogan. Boy,

57:37

you're a chump because Hulk Hogan is a real big

57:39

punk. And it goes on and on. Yeah,

57:44

anyways, I'll be honest with you, pretty

57:46

tame stuff there from Macho Man. Yeah.

57:50

Yeah, it looks like it. Calls him out

57:52

on having a straight to video movie while

57:54

he got himself a feature role in Spider-Man.

57:57

Which is true, you know? That is true. The wrestling

57:59

bit. that is true Macha

58:01

man did play boat saw yeah he

58:04

did yeah but it's all just like

58:06

I'm gonna beat you up yeah pretty much I

58:09

challenge you to a fight did you said no

58:12

mm-hmm you're a punk you're an coward

58:14

and it's kind of all yeah pretty

58:16

pretty pretty tame stuff it kept it

58:18

kept it did track their Macha man

58:20

sorry yeah anyways

58:23

let's go ahead and move on to

58:25

number one one the

58:28

heartbreak kid Shawn Michaels versus Brett

58:30

the hitman heart but of course

58:32

but of course it on they

58:35

did a whole like DVD so they did

58:37

like a whole arbitration for a

58:40

show yeah I watched it the

58:42

whole rivalry didn't it was too awkward it wasn't too awkward they'd

58:44

already made up by the time they shot that

58:48

oh yeah you know we already hugged yeah they already

58:50

I think they already had the thing on raw where

58:52

they did hug and then they did so it's sad

58:54

because these guys were like close friends back in like

58:56

90 to 93 Brett tell me that when

58:59

when you know the heart foundation the rockers were both in

59:01

the tag division he said he had a lot of respect

59:03

for Shawn and they were said

59:05

he Brett says I think he considered Shawn a

59:07

pretty close friend mm-hmm yeah

59:09

he did some time around 96 that

59:11

starts to change I mean I guess the the

59:14

Iron Man match went well they were both happy

59:16

with it mm-hmm and then

59:18

you know I wonder if it

59:20

was professional competitiveness

59:23

turned into personal animosity

59:27

because you know there's a time when WBS

59:29

business was down they were both competing for

59:31

the top spot mm-hmm and

59:34

and you know Shawn and the click had

59:36

Vince's ear more

59:39

so than Brett did at least and

59:41

Shawn didn't want to do

59:43

the JOB for Bret Hart even though

59:45

Brett did it for him yeah so

59:48

that was apparently supposed to be the planet WrestleMania 13 you

59:52

know and and right right right intended

59:54

you know because when Shawn lost his

59:56

smile mm-hmm he was also out with

59:58

the knee injury mm-hmm yeah Yeah.

1:00:00

But then, Britt was like, well, like three weeks later,

1:00:02

you're doing stuff that

1:00:05

no one with a knee injury would do. Yeah.

1:00:08

So Britt was apparently suspicious that Sean

1:00:11

was faking the injury, so he didn't have to lose

1:00:13

to Brett at WrestleMania 13. There's

1:00:15

the sunny days line from Sean's

1:00:17

promo, implying that

1:00:20

Britt was having an affair with Sonny. And

1:00:23

there was a fight that broke out that led to Sean

1:00:26

Michaels getting a chunk of his hair pulled out. Yeah,

1:00:28

and then storming into a meeting with Vince

1:00:31

and being like unsafe practices

1:00:33

here. Unsafe work environment, yeah. Unsafe

1:00:35

work environment for the heartbreak kid.

1:00:38

And then, you know, when Britt's

1:00:40

contract was, when he was being let out of his

1:00:42

contract by Vince, because Vince didn't want to pay him,

1:00:45

you know, then negotiating around when Britt was gonna

1:00:48

drop the title. And

1:00:50

Britt's insistence that

1:00:53

he was not gonna drop it to Sean. He

1:00:55

would've done to anybody else seemingly, but not to

1:00:58

Sean Michaels. Yeah. And

1:01:00

that led to the Montreal Screwjob. Yeah,

1:01:02

man, yeah. Again,

1:01:04

it's the only feud on this arrival where

1:01:07

your beef on this list, they had a

1:01:09

whole DVD made about it. Yeah,

1:01:12

yeah, and you know, we got to see,

1:01:18

like the Montreal Screwjob is so

1:01:21

fascinating. It really is. Because there

1:01:23

really isn't anything like it in

1:01:25

pro wrestling history. Well,

1:01:28

not this been captured on video.

1:01:31

Well, not that this, also like, there was

1:01:34

the Wendy Richter. Yeah,

1:01:36

I know, but I'm talking about two

1:01:38

main eventers, two guys who

1:01:40

are WrestleMania main eventers. And

1:01:44

for this Screwjob

1:01:46

to be

1:01:48

so public, and

1:01:51

on top of that, you add on top

1:01:53

of that the documentary. You know, that there

1:01:55

was cameras, that pay-per-view, that day when that

1:01:57

was going down. It

1:02:01

is an incredibly unique situation.

1:02:04

You know these days it probably wouldn't be all that

1:02:06

surprising because you know even Even

1:02:09

even the the the brawl in fight was

1:02:11

captured on security footage, you know I'm still

1:02:14

shocked that they don't have cameras. Just rolling

1:02:16

back there just to capture, you know emotions

1:02:18

and this that the other But

1:02:22

like they had so many cameras and You

1:02:25

know Vince got his got clocked by

1:02:27

Brett It was

1:02:29

just an absolute disaster of

1:02:32

a pay-per-view and it's all thoroughly

1:02:34

documented It

1:02:37

is it is really unique moment in pro

1:02:39

wrestling history. Yeah, and Yeah,

1:02:42

I don't know it's pretty interesting stuff it is and

1:02:45

you know if Those

1:02:48

two guys didn't have such a huge beef

1:02:50

obviously things would have done down much differently

1:02:54

Well, it's also interesting because like that real

1:02:58

life rivalry is like

1:03:01

shorthand for similar situations Yeah,

1:03:04

you know Oh Carmelo and trick you could do

1:03:06

a bread HBK thing, you know, or you know,

1:03:09

whatever That

1:03:12

there are there are so many there's it

1:03:14

is it is the bar in terms of the

1:03:17

rivalry Not just on

1:03:19

screen but also how much it

1:03:21

leaked off-screen Yeah,

1:03:25

it is it's sort of the defining real-life

1:03:27

beef in pro wrestling yeah it is it

1:03:29

is it is Anyways,

1:03:32

that's gonna do it for this episode of count

1:03:34

out Let us know what your guys favorite pro

1:03:37

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1:03:39

below. Thanks everybody tuned appreciate till next time

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