0:00

Music.

0:16

Good afternoon. Yeah. How are you?

0:20

I don't... Yeah, I'm a bit of a goalie. I'm fine. I don't know.

0:23

I was a little sicky, and then I thought I was better. Now I'm a little sicky again.

0:30

Wow. And everybody has it. Yeah. Everybody. It's the stuff of memes right now.

0:35

My sister has it. Yeah. The guy...

0:38

Just everybody's got... Everybody. Everybody's got a little bit of something

0:41

in the back of their throat. It's been that way all winter.

0:44

This is the... Yeah, my third proper cold of the winter. This is,

0:47

you know, like the zombie apocalypse.

0:49

This is what's going to bring it on. It's going to bring us all out. It's not going to be the COVID.

0:52

It's just going to be the common cold. It's going to be this weird cold thing that everybody has.

0:57

Wasn't that in the War of the Worlds that the aliens are taken down by?

1:00

Yes, that's what took them out. A virus. And then I was at work the other day, and I'm like, well, you sound sick, and you sound sick.

1:05

And I said it out loud, and they're like, I'm not sick. And I'm like, you sound different.

1:10

Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever see that episode of Friends when Phoebe gets cold and

1:14

it makes her voice kind of thick and raspy and she likes it?

1:17

So they're saying like, Phoebe, you sound really good. She's like,

1:19

I have this cold. I love it. And then she gets better. And then she goes around trying to get sick.

1:23

She's like licking coffee mug handles and stuff.

1:26

Very funny. It was a beautiful day though. And one of my favorite things to

1:30

see is the crocus buds are out.

1:33

So it's, you know, it's supposed to, it's supposed to not, there's not supposed

1:37

to be another cold snap, is there? No, I'm not that I know of that. They, those long-term predictions that no one

1:43

makes, they're, they're garbage. And what was the one I sent you?

1:48

Lombard street, Larry from, from Baltimore. It's a rat.

1:53

Lombard street, Larry. You didn't see a shadow.

1:57

Baltimore, Baltimore takes it on the chin. Well, they have to, they got to.

2:01

And yeah so you made asparagus soup i made asparagus soup and already something has happened,

2:08

i have a friend seth and he calls asparagus stinky

2:11

pea sticks and i made a big old vat of soup asparagus soup yeah and literally

2:19

i had two bowls of it i don't think it's been within 45 minutes half hour 45

2:24

minutes it's been a little longer than that i went to pee and And that asparagus smell.

2:29

And I'm like, how could it be through already? It doesn't make sense.

2:35

So I don't understand. That's the stuff. Even Austin Powers made fun of that.

2:41

I love asparagus. It's really good. I love vegetables. Yeah.

2:45

Like my mom used to laugh. It's like she never had.

2:49

They're jokes of like, well, you know, the kid will eat it.

2:52

Like you know like i i love asparagus i

2:55

love potato i love vegetables oh god oh

2:59

no okay back when i was cucumbers no

3:03

i don't like cucumbers cucumbers and melons the

3:06

only food stuffs that i i try to avoid

3:09

some green peppers but yeah i

3:12

just i just eat i just love food yeah this is sickness Now it's a learned pattern

3:19

Did you know that we learn To overeat You learn that as a coping mechanism Children

3:25

left to their own devices Babies and stuff won't overeat That's a learned coping behavior.

3:31

That's a learned coping behavior For boredom So if you put a bag of potato chips

3:36

in front of a child He's not going to eat them all? No,

3:39

No, they won't. Babies will stop eating when they're full. So when I was a child

3:43

and was given a bag of potato chips, I would eat them all.

3:46

So what does that have to say? Well, you were, by then you were what, five or six?

3:49

Well, I'm talking about an infant, a one-year-old. They eat till they're full.

3:53

They don't eat. They don't eat. Mom would have to kind of, back when I was skinny,

3:57

mom would have to, as a little kid, mom would have to like monitor.

4:01

And like, if I, she saw me get the grab, a bag of potato chips,

4:06

she would say, pour some in a bowl.

4:08

Yeah. Cause otherwise I just, well, that's a, that's a classic dieting tip is

4:12

to don't eat out of the bag. Just give yourself, you know, you're not going to do that.

4:17

You know, no, no, especially not now. I've yeah. It's bad. Yeah.

4:24

It's bad. It's not, the soup tastes good. Add another stick of butter, you know? So, you know.

4:31

Okay. Well, we're going to do another interrogation. We are.

4:35

They're great. Great. And this one is season one. Season one. Episode 17.

4:39

Episode 17. Came out in 2022. It's called A Family Tragedy.

4:44

A Family Tragedy. And it doesn't make any sense why this guy did what he did.

4:48

But let's just get into it. Okay. Okay. We're in Waseca, Minnesota,

4:53

Saturday, February 3rd, 2007.

4:56

It's 3.23 in the morning and a 911 call comes in and it's 13-year-old Alec Krieger

5:03

saying someone has entered their house and is shooting his parents.

5:07

They hear another gunshot and the line goes dead.

5:11

This is Special Agent Michael Anderson.

5:14

Alec Kruger had called 911 and reported that there had been an intruder at his

5:19

residence and that his parents had been shot.

5:24

You hear what sounds like a possible gunshot, and then the call goes dead.

5:30

So within minutes, police arrive, and we see their dash cam footage.

5:34

And this is back in 2007. I was thinking that dash cams and things like that

5:38

were a much more recent thing, because this is 25 years ago.

5:42

This is 15 years ago, more than that. Almost coming up on 17 years ago.

5:49

And it's, of course, it's Wisconsin in February, so it's a bleak hellscape of snow.

5:54

I was on a work trip once in Minnesota and it was,

6:01

it was, the snow was as tall as the cars and it was so cold. It's brutal.

6:10

And they have elevated walkways. How do people live?

6:13

I would just, I just don't, I, I mean, it was so cold.

6:19

I had to buy, I almost bought a fur coat.

6:23

Coat i went i went shopping you mean like the kind of fur coat you wear to a

6:26

movie opening i found a fur store and they had one that fit me and i you know

6:32

you wanted to buy it anyway i i i did you know why i didn't buy it my credit

6:36

card got declined because they never seen a single

6:39

purchase that high at one point you tried to buy it oh yeah i put my credit

6:42

card down and my credit card company was like no he doesn't buy these things

6:46

oh that's ridiculous i ended up having I ended up buying, what is it, with the feathers?

6:50

A parka. Down, a down. I had to buy, because the coat I had wasn't working,

6:54

I wasn't cutting it. This is Special Agent Michael Anderson. He lives in Wisconsin.

6:59

As you go up the stairs is the main bedroom or the master bedroom.

7:04

Alec was found lying on the bed, and Tracy was on the floor on the opposite

7:09

side of the bed in that main bedroom. Tracy Kruger and Alec Kruger were both deceased and appeared to have multiple gunshot wounds. Yes.

7:18

Hilary Kruger had suffered a gunshot wound, and she was in very critical condition.

7:24

So within minutes, police arrive at the home of Tracy and Hilary Kruger and

7:29

their two sons, 13-year-old Alec and 10-year-old Zach.

7:32

I learned later Zach was at a sleepover down the road. It was very confusing

7:37

at first because it kept saying the two kids, the two kids.

7:40

Zach was not there. He was at a sleepover with friends.

7:43

Thank the Lord. So this is Chief Deputy Trevor Kennewisher, and he's got the best Minnesota accent.

7:50

So when I first drove up that night, there were two vehicles stuck at the end

7:54

of the driveway, just east of the residence.

7:58

You could see that both were stuck backwards in the ditch like they had spun off.

8:02

So there are two trucks at the end of the driveway. Both have spun out.

8:07

One of them has a little towing cable on the front of it. One of them was running, by the way.

8:11

Oh, was it? In my research, one of them was still running. This idiot.

8:15

So there's one pair of tracks, boot tracks, in the snow around the vehicles.

8:20

There's also a truck from a neighboring property has now been reported stolen.

8:25

And here we go. The license plates were run on the vehicles.

8:29

And that's what told us that one was registered to Michael Zabawa and the other

8:33

one was registered to the Kruger family. At that point, we are going to want to talk to Michael Zabawa.

8:42

We had not processed the crime scene to any degree at that point.

8:46

We hadn't been able to gather much information from the scene or any witnesses.

8:51

Our plan to interview him certainly

8:53

was just, you know, gather information about his timeline of events.

8:57

So the one truck is registered to the Krugers and the other is registered to

9:01

the SUV to Michael Zabawa.

9:04

And he had the truck. That's the pickup truck. so they don't really have any

9:08

other clues to go on they haven't really processed the crime scene.

9:12

And they really want to talk to zabawa and while

9:15

they're getting his address zabawa calls

9:18

9-1-1 to report his truck has

9:21

been stolen so the police go to

9:24

pick him up and there's dash cam police footage

9:27

of him coming out with his mom right and they get him in the

9:30

truck to come down and he's you can hear him talking in the

9:32

back and they're saying well i i woke up this morning and i looked

9:35

out my truck wasn't where i left it so i i'm assuming his

9:38

mom told him to call right now without

9:42

trying to foreshadow too much do you

9:45

want to know why the mother walked the sun down okay her

9:49

boss uh-huh called her yeah the

9:52

police are looking for your kid oh wow

9:55

and she's like what he was here all

9:58

night which came back to

10:01

haunt her because she said well he got in he was was in and they

10:04

kept trying to accuse her of lying about the situation she

10:07

wasn't lying she just she got her fax man no it's your

10:10

mom in the middle of the night she hears you come in yeah no

10:13

i heard him come in so the truck from the neighbor's house

10:16

that was stolen ended up about 100 yards from the zavala residence and there's

10:21

one single set of footprints leaving the stolen truck leading right up to the

10:25

house now good company the car listeners so already we have a scene of a murder

10:30

we have a A truck registered to an individual in front of the residence.

10:36

We have a stolen truck from that area found 100 yards from the house of the

10:42

main suspect with footprints coming from the stolen vehicle to the residence of said person.

10:50

That's how smart this guy is. This is just, I kept shaking my head.

10:55

Well, so we go straight to the interrogation room. The guys who,

10:58

the police who are interrogating are in hoodies and pullovers and carhartt jackets.

11:03

It looks like they've gone hunting. Yeah, they just come from a football game

11:07

or something. All right, here's Zabawa's first version of what happened.

11:10

That's what I'm asking you to do. Just tell Trevor and I the truth about where you went last night.

11:16

Your hat. Oh, no. What I'm concerned about is we found your trunk, okay?

11:20

They told you after we found it in the ditch. We also found a stolen trunk,

11:25

okay? Another pickup, not far from your house. Okay.

11:29

It was stolen close to where your truck was. We know you were out last night.

11:33

Where were you drinking at? I mean, you know, you're drinking. You already told me you're drinking.

11:37

What difference does it make if you tell me where we're at? So I can sit here

11:39

with me while we drink that. So I'm not going to play all of his interview because it's annoying,

11:45

and it's just him pretending that he doesn't understand what's going on.

11:48

He constantly says, huh? And he answers really quietly.

11:52

So at first he says he went to work, and then he went home.

11:56

And then after they probe him for a while, he went to work, and then he went

11:59

drinking with a friend, and then he went home. And then he went to work, then he went drinking with a friend,

12:04

And then he went back to the friend's house. At one point, they interviewed his mom. She said she heard him come in at like 3.30 in the morning.

12:11

So they keep asking him to explain how his truck ended up in the ditch.

12:16

And he just keeps answering, well, I went home. And he doesn't answer the question.

12:20

And he's just playing obtuse. I, I, I.

12:24

It was hard to watch. He was playing so dumb. I think he's just not real smart.

12:28

He's not, he's not the sharpest tool. And that, you know, this is all coming

12:32

from, you know, some videos and some interviews around him and stuff.

12:38

I just don't think he's that smart. He does come across as a little, as dim.

12:43

So at one point, the investigator says, when you get a really,

12:46

they ask him, are these your boots you were wearing yesterday? He's like, yeah. Are we going to find those boots match the, no.

12:52

Is this the, are we going to find your fingerprints on the truck? No.

12:54

And when he says no, he says no, very, you know, tentatively.

12:58

But the investigator says, you know, when you get a no that confident,

13:03

it kind of makes you think maybe you don't have the guy. So, well, I think what they meant by that was that there was no stammering.

13:09

It was like, no, no. Yeah. He didn't hesitate. There was no,

13:12

there was no hesitation. He seemed really sheepish to me the way he was doing that. And then we'd ask

13:16

where, where'd you go? And he would rather than say, I went to the bar.

13:18

He just kind of point, which is like very indicative of someone lying. Yeah.

13:22

I think, I think he was so detached at that point.

13:26

Like he, the, like it got out.

13:29

I not defending him, but I don't think he intended for all this to go down.

13:34

I think it got out of hand because he just didn't seem, he'd never been violent before at all, ever.

13:43

So it just didn't seem, it didn't make any sense. Well, they're going to,

13:47

I have, I have research. They're not getting anywhere with this investigation.

13:51

So they're going to bring in another investigator who's going to be a little

13:54

more blunt to see if they can get them to start admitting to some things.

13:58

We were kind of stuck in a pattern of this, you know, incremental admissions. missions.

14:03

We didn't feel that we had anything to lose at that point by trying another tactic.

14:07

Introducing a new face, he may react differently. So enter Special Agent Gene Leatherman.

14:13

What a great name for law enforcement. And he comes in with a bag of food for, what's his name?

14:18

And he just immediately starts speaking to him as though they already have him

14:22

in the house. He said, we know you did it. We know you were in there.

14:25

We just need to know why you did it. Can you explain it?

14:28

And they start getting some traction.

14:53

We know you were there. We are going to put you inside there.

14:56

The only thing we don't have is your reason for doing it.

15:00

Or did you go in there and go in and kill a little kid that they made you do something?

15:04

So the agent very cleverly says, he's giving him a way out. He says,

15:09

I think you were trying to protect yourself, weren't you?

15:12

I mean, that would make sense to me that if the guy was trying to kill you,

15:16

if Kruger was trying to kill you, you had to defend yourself.

15:18

Is that maybe what happened? Then he just sheepishly says, yeah.

15:22

And so Zabawa is now admitted to being in the house.

15:26

He's admitted to shooting. they try

15:29

to get him to elaborate and he says that they actually struggled

15:32

that kruger came out and confronted him said i'm gonna kill

15:35

you they struggled with the gun the gun

15:38

goes off it kills kruger the gun falls

15:42

out of his hands it hits the wife then he's

15:44

running down the stairs and the gun falls and

15:48

and shoots the kid and they said

15:50

something like it shot he the zimbabwe says

15:53

says three times right and it's a pump action we

15:57

get to that we get to that bit from the the the agent so

16:00

we are now five hours into the interrogation it's

16:03

is it still it's still an interview right it's

16:06

it's yeah because he has not been read his miranda

16:09

right so it's an interview and he's not told he was arrested and he

16:12

hasn't asked for a lawyer the other he hasn't asked for a lawyer either

16:15

stay stupid the thing the thing that

16:18

that that i found incredibly odd or

16:21

unusual usual whatever is even though it's winter

16:24

in wisconsin and it's cold they are

16:27

inside yeah he is still sitting in

16:30

the chair with his outside coat on zipped

16:33

or buttoned up he's he's trying to protect himself those are those visual cues

16:37

when people cross their arms and they try to make themselves smaller to me it

16:41

looks so awkward he's sitting in that chair with his outside coat on the whole

16:44

time right so five hours into the interview they're getting him to start the

16:48

story all over from when he got his truck stuck in the ditch,

16:53

and this is his version of what happened.

16:55

From the time when you went in the ditch. Start from the beginning. Okay?

17:00

When the ditch fell off the hull, okay?

17:04

Inside the door, it was locked. The vehicle was staying outside.

17:09

I had all kinds of things around me, trying to get me out of the house.

17:13

Going in the house, and I was with somebody, and I was going to ask them to come out here.

17:14

Music.

17:20

Was your idea maybe to, what, ask them to come out and help you get out of the ditch? Yeah. Okay.

17:26

Okay, well, you were aware in the house. You were part of the house.

17:30

Yeah, I just did. In the bedroom?

17:33

No. Okay. And has anybody answered? No. No. Okay. So then what happened? Tell me how that...

17:47

Okay. And I was phoning you that year? I mean it. Okay. And what did he say? What? What did he say?

17:56

He told me to get out of the building. Right. Then what happened?

18:00

What? Then what happened? Well, I was going to turn around, and all of a sudden, he pumped into the gun.

18:07

He pumped around into the gun? Jack, the pump. Okay. And then what? That's when I turned around and grabbed

18:15

it so I didn't do anything. Okay. Then what happened? Then I got it loose on the one arm.

18:22

It's like two times, and I leave it there together. So then it goes off,

18:29

and then how did it hit? The light. When you're struggling, are they saying anything to you? I see that they're going on that dog.

18:38

What happened to her? I don't understand.

18:42

And I stopped, you know, like when the kid was standing there. I talked on the phone.

18:48

Okay, so you dropped the gun, and then it went off? Okay. Did you see it hit the kid?

18:54

So he keeps pretending to not hear the investigators, and I guess he's just stalling for time.

19:00

We learn later from the wife that none of this is true.

19:03

He claims that Zach, the boy who got shot three times, he claims Zach,

19:08

the boy that was shot, the son that was shot, who's on 911 when he got shot,

19:12

got shot when he passed him, and he dropped the gun accidentally and went off.

19:16

But Zach was shot three times, and it's a pump action shotgun and that's not

19:22

how it works alex just shot three times,

19:25

dropping the gun it didn't go off three times and if

19:28

it did it would be one time not three times it's a pump shotgun doesn't work

19:34

that way you gotta love his accent oh yeah also in my research you know they

19:39

all the the the the the forensic tests they do on the shotgun this shotgun was It was thrown,

19:47

dropped, flipped, kicked, everything.

19:49

And they could not get it to go off accidentally.

19:52

Yeah. So they place him under arrest, and they charge him with two counts of murder.

19:57

It's now February 23, 2009, almost two years after the murders.

20:03

The jury has shown a lot of that interrogation footage, which makes him look real bad.

20:08

Because story after story, he's deceitful from the get. I think the jury could

20:13

see that he was lying and untruthful from the beginning.

20:18

That was very important to show the jury that he wasn't telling the whole truth,

20:22

and the evidence supported what actually happened.

20:25

He was found guilty on two counts of first-degree premeditated murder,

20:29

which were two consecutive life sentences.

20:33

He got 216 months for Hillary's attempted murder.

20:38

But he never showed any remorse for any of this. never indicated he felt bad

20:42

about what he did or provided a logical explanation or anything for it.

20:48

And I don't think we'll ever know. So as of the taping of this interrogation, he never gave any indication of why

20:56

he did it, never showed any remorse.

20:58

I don't know if you found anything subsequently, if he ever admitted why he

21:03

was in the house, what provoked him to go up into the house.

21:05

He says that his truck got stuck in the snowbank.

21:08

He went up to the house. he knocked on the door the front

21:12

door was locked he tried the door which sounded sketchy he

21:14

went over he found the truck was open there were keys in the

21:17

truck but then he saw the garage door opener he opened the

21:20

garage and he went into the house none of that makes any

21:23

sense and he said he called out to people it's all nonsensical it seems like

21:27

he went into that house and just just killed these people for no good reason

21:31

the one thing that's coming into question is how much he actually had had to

21:36

drink because they tried to use that as an excuse that he was intoxicated.

21:42

His, his defense tried to use the whole interview.

21:47

Tried to get that thrown out because they said, oh, he was hungover and was

21:50

still drunk when he was brought into the interview room.

21:55

And the cops were like, no, he wasn't. He wasn't at all.

22:00

He wasn't, he was... Well, he admitted when the audio of him in the car,

22:04

they said he could smell alcohol in his breath. They said he could smell alcohol in his breath, but there's a big difference

22:08

between having a drink or two and being hampered. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah.

22:12

So, and of course, you know, he's not known for his honesty at this point, so who knows?

22:17

Yeah. So I have a lot of information here.

22:21

I'm going to try and streamline it as much as possible. And we still don't get

22:25

any answers. Even with all the research I did.

22:28

Dumb, evil people create so much misery in this life.

22:32

So Hillary, the wife who was taken to the hospital, she was coherent enough

22:39

to give a description before she went to the hospital. So they had a basic working.

22:43

And she was also saying, we were asleep. sleep my

22:46

husband held up part of the mattress to try to shield us

22:49

all this kind of stuff yeah the bullets damaged her

22:52

into the bullets and damaged her internal organs and she

22:55

had to have an arm amputated oh my god so she had

22:58

an arm amputated have an arm amputated so she lost

23:01

her husband and her oldest child thank that's

23:05

why i said thank god the youngest child was spending the night in somebody else's house

23:08

and she went through severe i think she was in the hospital

23:11

for a really really really really long time oh and the trauma

23:13

yeah there's the trauma so of course

23:17

that we were talking i know jesus but actually

23:20

there's some there's something good about that so i'll get to it so

23:23

kruger's neighbor across the street learned that his pickup truck was missing

23:26

and he found fresh shoe prints near where the pickup truck had been parked less

23:32

than an hour later the police found the missing pickup truck near zimbabwe's

23:36

house in another town right and And the observed shoe prints from the pickup

23:40

came from the direction of.

23:43

Zimbabwe. Well, that too Zimbabwe. Right. Exactly. Oh, my God.

23:47

So the sheriff's department received a phone call at about the same time.

23:52

All this was like, all this was happening at the same time was when the sheriff's

23:57

department received the call where Zimbabwe was calling to report that his pickup truck was missing.

24:03

Right. And the only reason that he called was because his mom kind of told him

24:07

to do it. He was like, oh, my truck's gone.

24:09

Somebody must have stole my truck. And her boss, in the meantime,

24:12

is like, my boss just called. The police are looking for you. I know.

24:15

So during the phone conversation with the police, telling them that the pickup truck was stolen.

24:20

Stolen they were like we need to talk to

24:23

you and that's when all of that was orchestrated

24:26

so that when they went to the house his mother walked him down the driveway to

24:29

the police because he wasn't arrested he was not

24:32

arrested he was you know his mother walked him down and he got

24:35

in the car and they went away at the kruger residence police

24:39

discovered an unlocked gun cabinet

24:42

in the basement so he just grabbed one on

24:44

the way in the gut no no no the basement went

24:48

in through the the garage okay so he

24:50

was wandering around the house and found

24:53

the gun cabinet and grabbed a rifle so the gun

24:56

cabinet was missing a shotgun and ammunition was strewn

24:59

around the floor the gun located upstairs was the 12 gauge winchester pump action

25:03

shotgun that an extent the extended magazine i know it doesn't make any sense

25:10

with a capacity of eight shells it had an extended magazine with capacity of

25:14

eight shells and was used to fire all the shocking when you

25:17

goose hunting when you go goose when you're wildfowl yeah they

25:20

allow three shells if you have one of those extenders in there

25:23

you've got more than three shells they'll take your license and

25:26

find you oh and you can't use lead shot joe and another friend of mine were

25:31

duck hunting one time and the enforcement guy came up behind them really quietly

25:36

they didn't realize it they had one lead shell in their bag because they'd been

25:40

shooting clay pigeons he busted both of them.

25:44

Yeah, they got the licenses. They have a fine or something? They got a fine

25:47

and they got their hunting licenses revoked. Yeah.

25:49

That seems dickish. Well, it was.

25:53

All right. Okay. Well, you know, I'm not.

25:56

Okay. Okay. Okay. So in the interview process, Zimbabwe admitted that Tracy

26:02

lifted up the corner of the bed and that he shot through the mattress.

26:06

He eventually admitted to that? He denied getting the shotgun from the gun cabinet

26:10

in the basement and maintained that that Tracy came out of the bedroom with it.

26:14

And that shotgun was identified by... Ballistics.

26:18

Tracy's brothers. Yes, that is Tracy's shotgun. Okay. Yeah.

26:23

And they weren't in the habit of keeping it in the bedroom. Right.

26:26

It was in the gun cabinet in the basement. Right.

26:29

So Zimbabwe was 24 at the time of the murders, and he was convicted of two years

26:36

later with life without parole. He was sentenced for multiple... other in fact like the

26:41

attempted murder on on hillary it was premeditated murder

26:44

but it was with multiple counts so it ends up just

26:47

being sentenced to life without parole the he

26:50

he tracy was really into snowmobiling and did

26:53

you see the picture of the house their kids snowmobile bikes were out in

26:56

the snow yeah not snowmobile they're mini bikes yeah

26:59

we're just sitting there they're like riding them in the winter i mean you're a kid in

27:02

wisconsin that rural setting i mean because it

27:04

was a rural it really was and i've said this

27:07

before i know i've said this before people in the country leave

27:10

their keys in their car yeah they do and their mini bikes

27:13

on their back porch okay so basically what it

27:16

boiled down to was trey zimbabwe

27:19

killed that killed those people because he

27:22

didn't want to get in trouble for using for for trying to use their car without

27:26

their permission oh that is what it the only thing that they can boil anything

27:30

down to well so he was going to use oh so he takes their truck he gets that

27:36

caught in the snow as well he goes goes back into the house and kills them. Well, that is unknown.

27:40

There's that, that timeframe is not known. They do not, nothing that I could

27:44

find. And so, cause I could find a lot of the court records.

27:46

Let me see. Let me tell you what I think is maybe the, how it went.

27:50

He gets there. He, he wipes his truck out in the snow.

27:52

He walks up to the Kruger house. He finds the keys in the car.

27:56

He takes that down the hill because he's drunk. He wipes that one out.

28:00

He goes back up the hill. Uh, It uses the door opener, goes into the house, and then he's going to kill them to cover up his crime?

28:08

And then he steals from the neighbors? Who knows? Who knows? None of it makes sense. So Zimbabwe's employer was a local

28:15

hog farmer, and he told media that he seemed like an okay guy,

28:19

and you can't explain why a good person does evil things.

28:24

However, here's where it gets a little interesting. thing so

28:27

every everyone trying to

28:30

get a better understanding of zabawi could have such callous

28:34

disregard for the human life would do well to

28:37

consider that the influence of his father oh donald

28:40

zabawi who in the 1980s and 1990s was

28:43

a highly active member of violently anti-semitic and

28:47

anti-government organizations i'm not going

28:49

to name the names of any of the organizations but he was in multiple

28:52

of these things for anti-semitic and anti-government organizations

28:55

weird wait wait wait the father was a

28:58

former prison guard in minnesota was arrested

29:02

in the mid-80s for attacking a gi with nunchucks he

29:05

later served time for shooting up a police car and

29:08

1984 zimbabwe told fbi agents that

29:12

he participated in mock attacks on law enforcement

29:14

officers staged by one of

29:17

these anti-government groups wow and that he

29:20

said often expressed the desire to kill cops

29:23

for the cause you know that that they

29:26

say that the influence of like a father on on

29:29

a son's behavior right that could have something to do with

29:32

it like you know the violence and like making him think that right this kind

29:36

of violent behavior is something to be admired or is okay so apparently the

29:41

father had seen you know he had ammo he had booby trap mechanisms with blasting

29:46

caps he wanted to kill jews cops judges lawyers and anyone who You didn't agree with him.

29:51

They did keep pointing out to Zabawa.

29:55

That when he was still resisting admitting to what he'd done,

29:58

they're like, you know, you killed a kid who's younger than your sister, right?

30:01

And I think that that's kind of when he started to like, geez, what have I done?

30:04

So his father, this is horrible.

30:08

So Michael Zimbabwe was just a toddler when his dad did all these things.

30:13

But at the age of 18, he started to get into a little bit of trouble.

30:16

He was charged with shoplifting and it was followed up by a couple of DUI type situations.

30:20

Graduations and in 2004 he had a

30:23

conviction for felony theft and criminal property damage.

30:26

Then obviously in the

30:30

time frame the murders came came later oh

30:33

god uh apparently when zimbabwe was named

30:36

as the person that the local newspapers

30:39

were like well i'm not surprised by that wait what

30:42

why weren't they should have been because the father donald oh

30:45

but i mean a bad person but they weren't surprised

30:48

that his son did something like this yeah they donald was such

30:51

a horrible person they're not surprised michael didn't turn out okay well

30:55

donald the father died when

30:58

he choked to death on his own this is i'm taking the words

31:01

out of the article he choked on to death on

31:04

his own booze soaked vomit in 1998 when michael

31:07

was 15 oh god so at 15 he had

31:10

messed up childhood but that doesn't well excuse any of this

31:13

so his mother had had remarried and there

31:16

were two more children involved and i do not know if those were completely

31:19

step or half or whatever okay so there's two younger

31:23

children living with michael with donald excuse

31:26

me no with michael jesus all

31:29

these names with michael could possibly have been half sisters okay the mother

31:34

andrea had said she'd gotten up to use the bathroom and heard the family's dogs

31:38

barking looked out when her son came in she said she heard the door and saw

31:42

him isn't it kind of late and he said yeah and then and they both went to bed.

31:47

So her saying like, well, he came in late, blah, blah, blah.

31:51

They were trying. But she never said that he was in early, right? She never lied to them.

31:55

No, she never lied, but she was very upset that they kept saying that she was

31:59

trying to give him an alibi. Because she was the one telling him,

32:02

go to the police, go to the police, go to the police. She didn't deserve what he did. Nobody did, but Jesus Christ.

32:09

And I already told you that the boss called and there was this huge circle.

32:12

Everybody in the neighborhood, everybody in the area knew what was going on. Small town. Exactly.

32:18

When her boss called Andrea and said, you need to, you need to,

32:23

you know, this is what's going on. They're looking for your son. She said that Andrea seemed shocked. Like what, what are you,

32:30

what, what had no idea what was going on. Okay.

32:33

So one of those attached articles that are talking about the situation,

32:39

I'm just going to read it to you. When Columbian College senior Sammy Macht was a child, her friend and his father

32:46

were murdered in her hometown of Wasaka, Minnesota.

32:49

That destroyed me as a seventh grader, and it destroyed our community.

32:53

It takes away all of your safety and your confidence in the world.

32:56

Because of that, she is at Columbia University.

33:00

Her career path is in science and forensic evidence, and she is supposed to

33:06

graduate as a forensic scientist to do with her career.

33:10

She just lived in the town she was friends with zach not

33:14

zach alec alec she was friends with okay and his

33:16

dad prompted her caused her it made her

33:19

choose her career to get into forensic science

33:23

to help solve these crimes small positive out

33:26

of the terrible terrible story and we'll never

33:29

know and and again all the articles

33:32

all the articles there's tons of court documents

33:35

and everything there's no clear motive yeah it literally

33:39

it seems like he was drunk his he wiped

33:42

out in his truck he wandered into a house found guns

33:45

shot them and then left yeah so senseless so

33:48

dumb it's completely senseless and his in his mug shots they're out there yeah

33:52

you know he's just i don't know it's just so sad this stuff's starting to bring

33:57

me down man why do we stop we're gonna have to do something about puppies and

34:01

butterflies or something we tried to look for something for For Bigfoot,

34:04

we couldn't find anything we don't like. If I see one more unfocused, we have definitive proof.

34:10

I know. We just want some proof, people. We'll work on it. So on that note.

34:14

Thanks for listening. Like, subscribe. Yes. Do that like, subscribe.

34:18

Music.