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by screening how you want and when

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0:11

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with ColoGuard. You can also request a ColoGuard

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0:42

Meet Jeanette McCurdy. She's an author,

0:45

a writer, and a big feeler, so

0:47

much so that she's making a podcast all about

0:49

her feelings. Jeanette's memoir, I'm

0:51

Glad My Mom Died, welcomed the world into

0:54

the story of Jeanette and all of the intense life

0:56

experiences that molded her into the person she

0:58

is today. But how does she manage all of the

1:00

messy, hard feelings she's feeling right now?

1:03

In each episode of Hard Feelings, her new podcast

1:05

with Lemonada Media, she'll tell you all

1:07

about it. Jealousy, shame, social

1:09

anxiety, she wants to laugh about it, cry

1:12

about it, and work through it with you by her side.

1:14

Why? These hard feelings are a big

1:16

part of the human condition. They unite us

1:19

all, but only once we're willing to face

1:21

them. Hard Feelings is out now, wherever

1:23

you get your podcasts.

1:26

Lemonada.

1:32

Hi, I'm Jessica St. Clair. And

1:35

I'm June Diane Rayfield. And

1:37

this is The Deep Dive. We're

1:40

about to do what women have done for centuries.

1:42

We're crowding around the fire with

1:44

our generous haunches. We go

1:46

deep. We go deep. We go deep.

1:49

We go deep. We go deep. We

1:51

go deep. We go deep. We go

1:53

deep. We go deep. We

1:55

got babies hanging off our tits. And we're

1:57

going to share with you our fears. That's

1:59

right.

1:59

our joys, our tips

2:02

on how to stay alive. Now

2:04

Jess, we are heeding a call that

2:07

no one has made. Not a

2:09

soul, but you're invited to listen. Absolutely,

2:11

because we make one promise and one promise

2:14

only. We will not Google a thing,

2:16

because frankly, we're too damn tired. Please

2:19

get ready to go on. The D-Dive.

2:29

Well, hello, Jessica. I'm

2:32

terrified. Oh

2:35

my gosh, deep divers. Something

2:38

major is happening.

2:40

First of all, I'm very nervous to record

2:42

this. Let's be honest. Let's be truthful.

2:45

I feel nervous. Who

2:47

moved my cheese? Who

2:49

moved my cheese? Do you remember

2:51

that book? Who moved my cheese?

2:54

Oh, I don't know what you're saying. It

2:57

was about change and embracing it. And

2:59

this mouse in the book is just obsessed

3:02

with someone moved his cheese,

3:04

and he just can't get over it. Okay,

3:08

our cheese has been moved. Our

3:10

cheese has been moved to

3:13

Lemonada. We have a new home,

3:15

and so our entire set, I'm

3:18

sure we have some new listeners joining us. I know, and we're

3:20

so excited. I do hope

3:22

you stay along. Yeah,

3:24

I'm so excited. I'm like, go back to the

3:26

previous episode if you want a taste of like

3:29

a classic episode. We're finding our footing

3:32

because our cheese has been moved.

3:35

And we are so excited to have found a new home

3:37

for our cheese. Yeah, I, listen,

3:39

I struggle with change.

3:40

I

3:42

was always the person at the end

3:44

of summer that was sobbing.

3:47

We would go to New Hampshire

3:49

only for like a couple weeks, and then

3:52

I would start sobbing like day

3:54

five, knowing that it was ending.

3:57

I have a hard time.

3:59

letting go. Yeah. And

4:02

so Jessica and I are acclimating

4:05

and we are calibrating. And, but

4:08

we have been texting

4:09

all morning about

4:12

how nervous we were. I put

4:14

on concealer. Episode for Levonada.

4:17

I never looked like that. This is

4:19

for everybody who's on the call. Our

4:22

new producer. I've never looked like

4:24

this for a podcast recording. So it's

4:26

all very, it's

4:29

all very nerve-racking. I'm so glad

4:31

you're with me. I know. I knew that I

4:34

knew that I was

4:36

going to say I was terrified because I can't

4:38

be anything other than what I am.

4:40

And for those new listeners,

4:42

that is what the show

4:44

is. June and I

4:46

are best friends. We've been best

4:48

friends for, I don't know how many years

4:50

at this point, but we started

4:51

this experiment before the

4:53

pandemic. We thought

4:55

we'd be talking about

4:57

creams we put on our face, what we

4:59

end up doing

5:00

is actually talking about the

5:02

deepest,

5:04

darkest secrets of our lives and

5:07

vulnerabilities and we share them. And

5:10

then the Deep Dive community, which

5:12

we call Deep Divers, share them back with us.

5:15

We feel less alone. We lean

5:17

into the joy of life. Everybody

5:20

wins. Yeah, that's a taste. You know,

5:22

I've been trying to nail down a logline

5:24

for this podcast for years.

5:26

I mean, at points it's been just a pure

5:29

Christmas podcast. At points,

5:33

it's been a recap podcast of the

5:35

show alone on the History Channel.

5:38

So it's had, we've

5:41

explored a lot of different things. Yeah.

5:44

And we're different and we're different because

5:46

of it. That's the thing. It's

5:50

been a beautiful experience and we're so excited

5:52

to welcome all the new

5:54

listeners and to take you on this

5:56

journey with us, it's really been a very

5:58

special, very fun. fun time.

6:02

Okay,

6:02

so I was thinking this morning, I was like, okay,

6:05

how do we talk about our relationship?

6:08

And I thought back to

6:11

when, of course, I first

6:13

saw Jessica performing at the Upper Citizens

6:16

Brigade Theater in New York.

6:18

And I thought she's the most brilliant

6:20

improviser woman I've

6:23

ever seen in my life. And you also think, why

6:26

is she wearing a capri pant that

6:28

hits her at mid-calf, which is the

6:30

widest part of my life? I think you were sort of like, yeah,

6:33

waiting for a flood. I know. Which,

6:36

by the way, in the theater we were in, which

6:38

was underneath the gristides, like, it

6:40

could have happened. It could have happened. And

6:42

it did.

6:43

And it

6:44

did. I thought you were beautiful. I appreciate

6:46

that.

6:48

And hilarious.

6:51

And I said to Casey

6:54

Wilson at the time we were doing our show together,

6:56

our sketch comedy show together, I said, we

6:59

have

6:59

to get to her. And then Casey

7:01

and I set out to befriend

7:03

you. And it was sort of an old-timey

7:06

courtship.

7:08

You know, they don't make them like that. They don't. You

7:10

took me to dinner. We

7:13

took you out. Yes. And

7:16

wind and dine you.

7:19

And then you seemed so,

7:21

and you were getting engaged. Nobody

7:24

knew. Except for us. Except for us, generally.

7:26

The boundaries, this is what was, and Casey

7:28

and I just talked about this yesterday, we were

7:30

talking about when we first met, and I said, you

7:33

know, the first thing you said

7:34

to me was, what are you

7:36

doing with your pubes?

7:39

I did know that because I was so horrified.

7:42

It wasn't the

7:44

first thing, but it wasn't. It was before

7:45

appetizers. It definitely was. It

7:48

was pre-pot sticker.

7:50

I'm going

7:52

to tell you that much.

7:53

And Casey, at that point, was... I

7:57

really was.

7:59

remember this so specifically it

8:02

was during an era like Taylor

8:04

Swift eras where everybody

8:07

was the bald eagle

8:09

in the vaginal department. Everybody

8:12

let's

8:12

see with it all. Okay

8:16

and I certainly was and Casey and I lived

8:18

together and I know she was sort

8:20

of fraught with this

8:23

this reality that

8:25

like there were bald eels everywhere

8:29

and she was working with New York

8:31

to drop that place. Yeah I

8:34

don't know what she exactly was up to but

8:36

I know that the this trend

8:40

was like was

8:43

unsettling her and I get

8:45

it

8:45

actually like looking

8:48

back I understand I was just like well gotta do

8:50

it you know but I but

8:53

looking back I'm like yeah I think

8:55

that it was you

8:57

know unsettling to see

9:00

everybody look like prepubescent

9:03

and so

9:05

but God I didn't expect her to bring

9:07

that up that night on our first date

9:09

with you. But it

9:10

felt cuz I think it was almost it was

9:12

almost like saying to someone you know

9:14

what do you do for a living

9:17

or what's your what college like

9:19

she wanted to identify

9:22

you and and the fact that I

9:24

think we talked about this

9:27

in one of the first couple episodes so so

9:29

maybe this is a recap of the pilot

9:31

of this show. Sure.

9:34

But when she said that to me I didn't

9:36

feel odd at all that's the thing it's

9:38

like I think the best thing

9:40

you can do on a best friend date

9:43

if you have if you've identified somebody

9:45

as a potential best friend and I say this

9:48

to BB all the time be yourself because

9:50

if that person does not welcome

9:52

you with open arms then that's not going to be a best

9:54

friend if you're just looking to network

9:58

for business don't

9:59

don't be your

9:59

yourself. Be anyone other

10:02

than who you really are. But if you're

10:04

looking for a best friend,

10:06

a soulmate,

10:08

come as you are. And I welcomed

10:10

it. I responded, which was that I

10:12

was getting waxed like a bottled

10:15

eagle in the basement of the

10:17

Time Life Building for $12 a session.

10:22

I would go to the McDonald's. I would have

10:25

a happy meal, treat myself to a happy

10:27

meal. This is when I was working at CNN. Then

10:29

I'd pop over

10:30

and get a $12 wax. Now, I'm still

10:32

working off some of the scars

10:34

there, you know?

10:35

I can only imagine. Some of that

10:37

scar tissue is never really... Never

10:40

gonna grow back. Wait.

10:43

I'm missing... What I want to say is I'm missing

10:45

pigment that I'm never gonna

10:47

get back. But

10:50

that was the budget I was working with

10:52

at the time.

10:54

I

10:56

vaguely remember that

10:58

at that dinner or drinks, whatever it was,

11:01

that you didn't drink very much. You

11:03

mentioned you were going to the gym.

11:06

You told us about the gym you went to.

11:09

And I didn't even have a gym membership. I couldn't even

11:11

imagine a future in which I had a gym membership.

11:14

So you represented to me someone,

11:17

you were getting engaged, who had

11:20

their life together. Oh, it would be

11:22

so wild now. I know. I

11:25

know we've come a long way. Yeah, but that's

11:27

who you were to me. And then

11:30

Jessica moved to LA. I followed

11:32

a few years later with Casey. And the

11:34

next time we really... Because

11:37

believe it or not, that dinner didn't... Our

11:39

friendship didn't take

11:41

flight after that dinner. No surprise.

11:44

But then we came to LA. And then the

11:46

next time I really connected with

11:48

you

11:50

was in the waiting room

11:52

for a pilot we were both auditioning for.

11:56

And that was before I started coming to Housewives?

11:59

Yes.

11:59

I can't believe we didn't know each

12:02

other really well then because we did

12:04

we met in the bathroom

12:07

of that of that audition

12:09

and I had a soiled white

12:11

tank top on and you were wearing

12:14

I was wearing moccasins and

12:16

Couldn't

12:19

have been shooting ourselves in the foot

12:21

more but

12:22

I felt

12:24

Again wearing moccasins and quarter and

12:26

I didn't expect that from you either because

12:28

you were putting

12:29

yourself together like a woman in a way That

12:31

I'd never seen in the comedy

12:33

space. And so I did not expect you to

12:35

be to be a veck

12:38

moccasin and But that's

12:40

when I knew like and then afterwards

12:43

we walked out and

12:46

Did you say to me June? Listen

12:49

if I if I don't get it, I hope you do Was

12:53

so funny. Do you remember sitting outside that

12:56

yeah,

12:56

I remember we were I remember Yes,

12:58

I remember the big part was

12:59

this is so what me too. And

13:02

this is so well, who's me you and some another

13:04

woman and We

13:07

were both up for playing a mom

13:09

on the TV show And

13:13

we were really wrestling with whether we were

13:15

ready to play that role. Yeah And I

13:19

was like, I'm still Carrie Bradshaw over

13:22

here. Like what the fuck?

13:24

You know and and you felt the

13:26

same and so we were a

13:29

bit ambivalent but also wanted

13:31

it And

13:33

I think what was so cool about

13:35

that experience is it really

13:38

connected

13:38

me and you because we were very honest

13:41

about

13:43

Being fraught with motherhood

13:45

and being fraught about our careers

13:47

and

13:50

You got the role I did not and

13:52

Cuz this is the final like for those

13:55

of you who don't like we had to sign contracts

13:57

to test for this role Look at the final

13:59

sign

13:59

Final Final Final audition.

14:02

And then of course it went on to Siri.

14:04

I wouldn't really call it that. But okay.

14:07

I had to get aired like four episodes.

14:10

It was okay. Well it was on for four episodes

14:12

but it was picked up for a season. Jessica

14:15

got the role and then I was hired as a

14:18

guest star.

14:20

And I sat

14:22

in your trailer, do you remember this? Yes. And

14:25

you told me we were

14:28

still just out there fucking hustling

14:31

in

14:31

our careers. Yes. And you

14:33

were like, and

14:34

I was like, ah, pilot season and I gotta

14:37

do this and I gotta do that. And you're so lucky you're already on a

14:39

show and the hustle, the

14:41

hustle, the hustle. And you said to me, you're

14:43

like, this isn't... I know you

14:45

have no memory of this. No memory of this. You

14:48

said this isn't real.

14:50

I don't know who I... That's not

14:52

me. But

14:52

you looked around at the trailer in the costumes

14:55

and you're like, this isn't real life.

14:58

Let's have our babies.

15:01

And I was like, what? And you were like,

15:03

we gotta have kids. We want kids. When

15:05

are we gonna have them?

15:06

And I was like, I don't deserve them

15:09

yet. I gotta do ABCDE.

15:11

I can't have them

15:12

yet.

15:14

I don't get to have that yet. I didn't do

15:16

enough. Wow. This

15:19

is the kind of talk that people don't welcome

15:21

at the craft service

15:23

table. Because I get into

15:25

such a existential

15:27

place when I'm working. I was

15:30

probably like, this can't be it. I

15:32

didn't know just

15:35

that you were so adamant about it and then

15:37

you did get pregnant

15:39

pretty soon after, I think.

15:42

Well, I don't remember, actually. I

15:44

don't remember. But

15:46

anyway, for our new listeners, that was

15:49

sort of the real genesis of our

15:51

friendship. We've just become closer over the

15:53

years. But it's very...

15:56

People always have that misconception, I think, about

15:58

actresses. we're like in uber

16:01

competition with each other all the time. And

16:03

I'm like, you and I have been in competition

16:05

for the same parts

16:07

over and over and over again.

16:10

And

16:12

instead of turning away from each other, we

16:14

always turn toward each other. That's

16:17

absolutely true. And we're so lucky.

16:20

And the moment that

16:23

I feel like defined and

16:25

cemented our

16:27

bond

16:28

was the darkest night of my life.

16:31

Truly

16:33

darkest

16:34

night

16:35

of my life when

16:37

we were in the hospital and Dan was

16:40

in a very precarious

16:42

situation. And the

16:45

nursing staff, God love them, were

16:47

completely overbooked

16:50

and were messing some

16:52

things up. And I was like, I

16:54

don't know what to do. And

16:57

you called me or texted

16:59

me at 11pm. I

17:01

don't know who told you. I don't know the game

17:04

of telephone that had gotten to you

17:06

or if I told you. I

17:08

think that day I was texting you all

17:11

some of the most horrific updates every

17:13

five minutes. And I

17:16

thought this is the day that was going to change

17:18

my life forever and not in a good way. And so

17:20

you texted me at 11pm and you said, I'm

17:23

going

17:23

to get in my car and I'm

17:25

going to drive

17:26

to UCLA and I'm

17:28

going to tell everybody I'm Dan's sister

17:31

and I'm going to station

17:33

myself outside of the door. And

17:36

I'm going to raise hell if things

17:38

aren't done correctly. I

17:42

was willing to. You wouldn't let me. You

17:45

wouldn't let me come. I said, that's insane.

17:49

So anyway, but that

17:51

is when I realized like, oh, this woman

17:54

shows up.

17:56

This woman shows up like,

17:59

you know, I thought,

17:59

God, I didn't even know you felt

18:03

that close to me. And that felt

18:05

so

18:06

amazing to have that type of support.

18:10

So that's when I knew.

18:18

Good morning, Deep Dive Academy

18:20

and potential students. This

18:22

is your headmistress, Ms. Jessica

18:25

St. Clair speaking. And this

18:27

is headmistress, Mrs. June

18:29

Diane Rayfield.

18:30

And the doors of enrollment are open

18:33

at the Deep Dive Academy of Significance.

18:35

And the hallowed hallways are abuzz

18:38

with our students pursuing their studies

18:40

in the fields of fashion, beauty,

18:43

and the culinary arts. Rigorous

18:45

academic classes like perfecting

18:47

the cat eye, midnight spaghetti,

18:50

and the art of the cold plunge keep

18:53

our students on their well-manicured

18:55

toes. Enroll now

18:57

at thedeepdiveacademy.com

19:00

and use code LISTENER for 15% off your

19:02

tuition and

19:05

get access not only to our weekly

19:07

lessons and Tuesday treats, but

19:09

also the entire back catalog.

19:13

See

19:13

you behind the walls of

19:15

the academy.

19:20

This message is sponsored by ColoGuard. Hi,

19:23

I'm Kate Bowler, and you might know me from another

19:26

Lemonada Media show called Everything

19:28

Happens. If you listen to my show, you

19:30

know that a lot of it is inspired by my experience

19:33

with colon cancer. So of

19:35

course, increasing awareness around

19:37

colon

19:37

cancer screening is really important

19:39

to me.

19:40

In case you didn't know, you should

19:42

start screening at 45. And

19:44

a great at-home option to screen

19:47

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19:49

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19:52

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19:57

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20:39

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20:41

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20:43

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20:46

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21:03

In 2022, the US Supreme Court overturned Roe

21:06

vs. Wade.

21:07

Since then, it's been a barrage of bad

21:10

news. But behind the bleak headlines,

21:12

there are people working to protect

21:14

our right to control our future.

21:17

The Defenders is a new 10-part

21:19

series about the fight for freedom in a post-

21:21

Roe America. Co-hosted by

21:23

Samantha Bee and me, Gloria Rivera,

21:26

the show will examine ways people are still

21:28

accessing

21:29

care from crossing state borders

21:31

to self-managed abortion. You'll

21:33

hear from activists, providers and

21:36

everyday people doing the work

21:38

to expand reproductive freedom.

21:41

We're here to tell you anyone

21:42

can become a Defender. The

21:44

Defenders is out now wherever...

21:49

Well I love you so much Jessica. I say

21:51

it every episode. I love this woman so much and

21:54

yeah,

21:57

my nerves are dissipating a bit. You

21:59

know of course... right before we started

22:02

recording I had a giant

22:05

giant

22:06

green juice that was freezing cold

22:09

so I came up here just shivering.

22:11

I'm starting to really

22:13

relax in and there are a couple things

22:15

I do want to talk to you about today. I

22:17

wrote a

22:18

list. Great. I know this was you were off like possible

22:20

topics. I'm like well let's not get this new

22:22

audience like let's level

22:24

set for them that most of the time

22:27

if not all the time we have no idea what we're going to talk about.

22:29

I know but there's a couple things

22:31

on my mind. Okay great. That I just

22:33

want to address with you because

22:34

something major has happened to

22:36

me I'm different. Okay.

22:39

Okay. And the reason

22:41

why is because I have just

22:44

and I mean in the last two weeks started

22:47

to wear belts.

22:49

So have I.

22:57

Okay I've always

22:59

felt

23:01

very intimidated by a woman

23:03

in a belt. Belts were for somebody

23:05

else. Someone who

23:08

had their shit together in a way

23:10

that I could never somebody who

23:11

rode a horse. Somebody

23:13

who had generational wealth. Women

23:18

in belts to me were like Ivy League

23:21

shit. Women in belts were

23:24

too

23:25

fucking powerful and sexy for me

23:27

to even I'm so attracted to women

23:29

in belts by the way.

23:31

A woman in a belt

23:33

with a boot cut and like a boot.

23:38

And like a crisp white

23:40

button down shirt with a collar

23:42

popped. Who did they think they are? Yes.

23:46

Crazy to me. Yep. So

23:48

I've never even owned a belt. I wouldn't

23:50

dare.

23:51

I wouldn't dare.

23:54

So this is why we both own belts

23:56

right now and actually it's perfect because today.

24:00

that we're recording is the day it just came out, but

24:02

Alison Bornstein, who is

24:04

a stylist for

24:07

the Every Woman,

24:08

has a book out called Wear It Well.

24:11

And I want to just tease something

24:13

that I, because I am the chief content officer

24:17

of the

24:17

Deep Dive Academy of Significance, which is of

24:20

course the institution

24:22

we started. We

24:25

are going to be having a

24:28

styling, curating your

24:30

closet seminar

24:33

that's going to go over the course

24:35

of a month with Alison Bornstein. Well, that's

24:37

wonderful. So we're all going to get into belts.

24:40

Alison, Alison told, I had

24:42

a session with her and she said, we need to get you

24:44

some belts. And I said, oh, I don't wear

24:46

belts. Like I don't identify as

24:49

a belt wearer. Because again, belts to me is like, what are you doing

24:52

with your pubes? Like what are you doing with those loopholes?

24:54

Those little loops.

24:57

Yeah. I'm not putting a belt in them.

24:59

And she said, a

25:01

belt can go. She said, if there's

25:04

a loop, put a belt on it.

25:07

Wow. Always. I

25:10

mean, not always, but she

25:12

said more often than not, put

25:14

a belt on it. And

25:17

I, I

25:18

short circuited.

25:20

I am

25:22

now. Yeah.

25:25

I'm going to tell you, cause when

25:27

I recently showed up at your house, frantically

25:29

after a beach day and said, I had to, I have

25:31

to go to a cocktail party in about half

25:34

an hour and I need to shower at your place. I need your

25:36

clothes and your shoes and a bag.

25:39

You handed me some clothes and you handed

25:41

me a belt with it, which was from a shoot.

25:45

I didn't, that's not my belt. I've never worn it. So,

25:48

okay. So I thought maybe you're a belt person.

25:50

No, I just bought my first belt last week.

25:52

Okay. I just

25:55

worried for the first time yesterday. You know, who

25:57

is, who I got this crazy different

26:00

I felt in control. I had a crisp

26:03

white shirt that she had me buy and

26:05

a belt and I felt like

26:07

I could take on the world.

26:10

Like I felt like I'm the

26:12

kind of woman that has a closet full of

26:15

crisp white tees and I know how to bleach

26:17

them so don't get in my fucking face.

26:22

Wow.

26:25

So

26:28

I'm gonna say this much.

26:31

There's one woman who I've always

26:34

identified as a belt woman. Who's

26:36

that?

26:37

Andrew Savage. Oh yeah. Come

26:39

on. She always has this smart

26:41

belt on.

26:42

Yeah and she always has the

26:44

right candle lit and she's

26:46

always near a fire pit. But

26:50

she has always had a belt on and

26:52

I've always thought wow that's

26:54

powerful. Yeah it's

26:56

aspirational. And is it something

26:59

like our belts masculine in my mind?

27:01

I don't know. I don't know what's

27:03

going on with me in this belt but I have

27:06

it on right now.

27:08

I was very worried about how it would feel

27:11

when I was sitting by. Part of me is like

27:13

at this point and again this was

27:15

an assignment for the Academy which was to get

27:19

rid of any jeans, any pants

27:21

that don't fit anymore and donate

27:23

them because we can't be stuffing

27:26

ourselves into things that make us feel uncomfortable.

27:28

But I'm always undoing the top

27:31

button like I'm fucking at

27:33

a roadside bar

27:37

after like a basket of wings. But

27:39

I need to be able to exit you know

27:42

the shackles of denim. And

27:44

so then I thought well what is this belt gonna

27:47

do to me? But so

27:49

far so good. So

27:50

far so good. I think maybe I subconsciously

27:53

had the same concerns that the belt

27:56

would be too much.

27:58

on

28:00

I also like I really struggle with bloating.

28:03

Yeah, that's not the mom.

28:05

So and I was

28:07

like, that belt's going to just remind me

28:09

of how bloated I am.

28:11

Yep.

28:14

The opposite has sort of happened,

28:16

which is it's cinching me in. Yeah,

28:19

it turns out the belt has been around

28:21

for, I don't know how many hundreds of

28:23

years. Jessica, you're never

28:26

going to see my mom not in a belt.

28:28

Oh, hey, your mom is about. Your

28:30

mom is a belt to me. Okay.

28:37

She is like the fact that I

28:39

is a smart collar and

28:42

a button down. The

28:44

fat collar. Okay, we need to

28:46

talk about this, too, which

28:48

is I am going because

28:50

of you to surprise

28:53

my godmother, who is in

28:55

an assisted living home. And

28:58

I haven't seen in very many years

29:01

because it's in New Jersey and I'm all the way

29:03

out here in California. And

29:05

my mother will be there as well. We're surprising

29:08

our other aunt who

29:10

is being honored as like

29:13

the best nurse in all of New

29:15

Jersey. So we're going there. But my

29:20

point is I'm going to shock

29:22

my mother by showing up dressed

29:25

correctly.

29:27

Wow. Because I know

29:29

that when she looks at my my

29:31

unadorned belt loops, it fills her

29:33

with a deep and unending sadness.

29:36

I know that if I were to truly say,

29:38

Mom,

29:39

what hurts you the most on my body right

29:41

now? She would say that you're not wearing a beltless.

29:44

Yeah.

29:46

So and she because

29:49

now I'm starting to feel like her,

29:51

like if I see those belt loops empty,

29:54

sad, barren,

29:56

you know, I'm feeling

29:58

for them. I always.

29:59

I thought belts were, I don't know,

30:02

it's just so crazy. I thought

30:04

they're functional to like keep up your pants.

30:08

No, I didn't know. I didn't know. No,

30:10

and everyone needs to check out

30:12

Alison's book Wear It Well because

30:13

it is such a guide to

30:15

like how to get these

30:18

pieces, you know, the white t-shirt,

30:20

which she directed me to cost,

30:23

COS, it's a $25 t-shirt. I don't

30:25

think that's how that's pronounced. Is it Coase?

30:28

Whatever it is. It's a $25 t-shirt just

30:30

like, okay, great. And we have a whole

30:32

episode

30:32

with her that we interviewed, but that was pre-belt

30:34

revolution. And so now this is so... The

30:37

belt revolution will be televised. If

30:39

you want to get at Alison, be able

30:41

to ask her questions, she will be with

30:43

us in the academy joining us as a dean.

30:46

She's changed a few things for me. So that's big

30:49

and

30:52

I don't think I'll ever be beltless again. Yeah,

30:55

I'm going to say this too, June. This was a

30:57

crazy thing that happened to me the other day and I

30:59

really do think the deep dive has

31:01

a

31:01

huge part in it.

31:03

I had my birthday, right?

31:05

Tell me about it. It was

31:08

glorious. I'm

31:09

going to tell you why. First of all, my birthday

31:12

used to be very fraught and I share the birthday with

31:14

your dad. So I also tip my hat

31:16

to him.

31:16

I'm sure he sent me some of these good vibes,

31:19

but I decided,

31:22

I was like, I want to enjoy the fuck

31:24

out of my birthday. This is great. So

31:27

the night before my birthday, and I wanted

31:29

to give this tip for everyone who has children

31:32

who want to celebrate your birthday

31:34

with them on

31:35

that night of your birthday, go

31:38

out with your partner,

31:40

best friend, whoever, the night before.

31:45

One of my old babysitters,

31:48

Ashley,

31:49

remembered it was my birthday and said, hey,

31:52

you want me to come over and babysit so you and Dan can

31:54

go out? I would have never thought about it because,

31:57

you know, she's living her best childless life.

31:59

out there making memories, you know,

32:02

on anniversaries, etc., having probably

32:05

best sex of her life. So she said,

32:08

let me take Beebe to pizza, whatever. So

32:10

we did that.

32:11

And because there was no pressure, because it wasn't

32:13

my actual birthday, I had

32:16

a glass of bubbly, a chocolate tort,

32:19

all to myself,

32:21

so many carbs,

32:21

and in bed

32:24

by 830, wonderful. Oh,

32:27

loving early dinner. And

32:29

then my other friend Molly, who is

32:31

my costume

32:33

designer, who also I potted with, she said,

32:36

Hey, you want to go to the spa with me, the

32:38

Burke Williams spa. Now here's a hot

32:40

tip. Here's

32:43

a hot tip for $110 a month.

32:45

Okay, you can be a member at the Burke

32:47

Williams and go every every month

32:49

for a massage, but not that

32:52

every month, every month, it's like it

32:54

belongs to a gym, but instead of working

32:57

out, you're going to

32:59

lay down.

33:02

Talk about significant women months to use all

33:04

the facilities to

33:06

friend. So I showed up at 11am.

33:08

And I, I

33:10

saw

33:12

the quiet room. And

33:14

I'm like, what's in there? All

33:16

of these significant women taking a nap.

33:20

It was nap pods. Oh,

33:23

I've seen that was nap. They

33:26

were these

33:27

easy chairs with what

33:30

I think were fur

33:31

blankets. And

33:33

there was lavender diffusing.

33:35

Lovely, you get yourself

33:37

in there. So fell deeply asleep.

33:40

I don't know how I woke up in time

33:41

for this massage, which

33:44

I said to her just

33:47

rub my head,

33:50

head in my neck. That's all I want.

33:52

And she did it for

33:54

like 40 minutes. Then

33:56

I took like a hour and a half shower.

34:00

Just a shower.

34:05

Then I had some lunch with Uncle Josh.

34:08

This is a

34:09

perfect day. Let me ask you something.

34:11

This sounds like a perfect day. I couldn't be happier.

34:13

I want to ask you, when

34:16

you're getting a massage, because

34:18

I

34:18

actually was just away with my girlfriends for the weekend.

34:20

Oh yeah, I wanted to talk about that. And I did get a massage while

34:22

I was away. But when you're getting a

34:24

massage, do

34:27

you like

34:28

to talk to the masseuse?

34:30

No, this is insane. No.

34:33

And also, this woman did start

34:35

sharing her tips and tricks,

34:37

which I did not need

34:38

to hear, of

34:40

like vitamins and supplements

34:42

for a woman quote of my

34:44

age.

34:47

No, thank you.

34:49

And I'm sure she's getting some MLM

34:51

kickback or you're on the downline or

34:53

whatever the fuck. No, thank you, honey. I don't

34:55

need your supplements. Maybe the

34:58

age of my ass is different than the age

35:00

of my face.

35:01

You're only seeing me from

35:03

an aerial view. Okay, another

35:05

question, Jessica. Do you go

35:08

fully nude or do you wear in something

35:10

underneath there? Because I find the end

35:12

of that to be fascinating. Totally nude,

35:14

right? Nude, of course. I want them to have access.

35:17

Yeah, get in there. Get in there and do what you

35:19

need to do. Because that's

35:20

your work space. I'm not trying to create barriers.

35:23

Yeah, I'm trying to give you the whole canvas.

35:25

I'm not going to think you're going to try to secretly

35:27

slip a ditch. You

35:28

know, nobody's

35:31

after that. Although I will tell you, I lived

35:33

with

35:34

someone out of college

35:37

who I will

35:37

never forget. She came

35:39

back one day and

35:41

said she had had a massage and she

35:43

started having sex with a guy on the spectrum.

35:45

Well, that's the hottest thing I've ever heard. How?

35:48

That's a moment where

35:51

I was Oh, June,

35:53

like these things happen.

35:59

I've never been, you know, now I'm upset.

36:02

I wasted all of my 20s. Well,

36:05

wonderful. You know, listen, for a

36:08

long time I was like, I always prefer

36:10

a female's. Yeah, me too. And

36:13

I think I still do.

36:15

However, I

36:18

will say that there's some times

36:20

where I've had certain

36:22

men who I feel

36:24

are a little

36:26

bit

36:26

more comfortable with a heavier pressure.

36:29

Sure, which I like.

36:33

But I also never want

36:35

them to think, this

36:38

is like the whole

36:39

psychological thing that goes into it, that

36:41

I've requested a male. I,

36:43

right. Because I'm like, what is

36:45

that fucking, what message am I sending

36:48

you, sir? That I'm like, male,

36:50

men. I would like a man. And if

36:52

it's a man, I would definitely have

36:55

on something. I wouldn't feel.

36:57

Oh, I haven't. Of course you haven't. I

37:00

have a friend who was staying at some hotel

37:03

in New York. That was like a membership hotel.

37:06

Like her dad was a part

37:07

of it or something. And so she went and stayed.

37:09

And she had a crazy

37:11

sciatica thing kick up. So she called

37:14

down, she said, I'd like a massage. You

37:16

know, and they said man or woman. And

37:18

she said, it really doesn't matter. You

37:21

know, man, I guess, because

37:23

I need like actual pressure. And

37:27

the person they sent up was to have sex

37:30

with her.

37:32

What do you mean? That was code.

37:35

That's what you knew to do.

37:38

To say you wanted pressure. Just

37:40

to say a man meant that will be

37:43

the service provided. And

37:48

so, and actually the person

37:50

they sent up, she was like,

37:52

oh, no, no, no, no. I don't want to do that. And he was

37:54

like, well, I'm not very good at massaging,

37:57

so I should just go. I don't want you to spend that

37:59

money.

38:02

Oh my god. I'm

38:04

not

38:04

certified for that sort of thing. I

38:08

only have my certificate in fucking.

38:11

And you know what? She was single.

38:13

She was single at the time and I thought, kind

38:16

of wish

38:17

you'd seen what was on the menu.

38:20

Listen, I want to say to any of our deep divers

38:22

who are young and,

38:24

you know, free,

38:26

like just see what's on the menu.

38:29

Just be open. Yes, just be

38:31

open. You know, Jessica is a cautionary

38:33

tale. She

38:34

didn't have a margarita till about three

38:36

months ago. And I regret every

38:38

lost minute.

38:40

Yeah. And she was always going home from the party

38:42

first and like really regulating

38:45

herself throughout her life. And

38:48

you know, it's only now that she's

38:51

really

38:52

going wild out there and it's

38:55

a different look. I know

38:57

and nobody wants a different look now.

38:59

People are offering me

39:01

supplements. I don't want a

39:04

supplement payment plan,

39:05

a monthly supplement

39:07

service. They're not offering to

39:09

finger blast me on the table.

39:13

Oh, you know, that's the truth is

39:16

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39:18

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39:21

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41:03

I wanted to tell you the moment I had

41:05

was...

41:08

I thought, huh,

41:11

I'm happy.

41:15

It really took me, and it's happened

41:17

about two times since.

41:20

Huh, I feel happy.

41:23

Almost

41:25

perfectly happy. I

41:33

don't know if I've felt this way, truly,

41:36

since I was studying

41:37

abroad in Spain.

41:41

I think

41:42

something's happening to me. I

41:44

think,

41:45

and I met

41:47

with Elise

41:49

Lunan, whose book we're doing a really long

41:51

with, at the Academy, and she said, something

41:54

is happening in our collective consciousness,

41:57

which is people

41:57

are shedding old.

41:59

They are cracking

42:03

open and she looked at me and said, evolve

42:06

or die.

42:14

I wonder,

42:17

and I would love to hear if

42:19

we looked around because I know every single

42:21

person in my orbit is having radical

42:24

changes and shifts in their life.

42:26

I wonder if it's the time we

42:28

have from the pandemic till

42:31

now where we can actually

42:33

take stock and say, this,

42:36

not this, enough

42:38

of this, more joy. I

42:40

don't know what it is.

42:43

It's so interesting because, well,

42:45

Jessica's husband, Dana Bryan,

42:48

just brilliant poet

42:50

and author and playwright. And

42:52

we recently went to a reading of his

42:55

work and he talks

42:57

about dealing with trauma

42:59

after, later, later, later, later.

43:02

And I think you're absolutely right, Jess, that

43:05

there is a post-pandemic

43:11

being out of it even though apparently everybody

43:13

I know has COVID

43:14

in them. Yeah, I'm sure I do too. I'm sure I do

43:16

right now. Yeah, I could not

43:18

have it.

43:22

There is a post-pandemic,

43:23

probably years out now

43:26

or two years out, safety where

43:29

we can process,

43:31

where we can learn and

43:33

we can feel because we're a little

43:36

bit safer to do that. That's

43:44

right. We're not fighting for our brains

43:46

isn't taken up surviving. Yeah.

43:50

Yeah.

43:52

And I had a

43:53

two and a half hour conversation with my dead

43:55

best friend via a

43:57

psychic medium. And again, if you're hearing this

43:59

as a new.

43:59

listener and you're thinking this podcast isn't for

44:02

you because these people talk to dead people. We

44:04

do. Yeah,

44:06

we do. So there and there are yeah there are

44:09

several dead people who are recurring

44:11

characters. Yes. Co-hosts.

44:14

June's parents who and

44:16

they... My parents pretty

44:18

much exclusively

44:19

speak to Jessica. That's right. So

44:21

I don't really get a direct line from

44:24

them and the way that Jessica died.

44:26

Like I you had a dream and I was

44:28

about your dad or your dad was in there I was like well this

44:30

is what he meant. It took me a minute but

44:33

then I figured it out and he had a message

44:35

for me too

44:36

which is why I'm going to be my aunt.

44:38

My godmother. Your

44:41

father told me through you to

44:44

get on that plane and I'm doing it on Thursday

44:47

and go be with my family. I'm thrilled

44:50

about that. Yeah it was that easy to

44:52

just do it and have

44:54

no regrets. Wonderful. No regrets. We don't want regrets

44:56

but

44:57

at any rate yes we talked to dead people and when I

44:59

was talking to my dead best friend this is you

45:02

know a two and a half hour conversation. She said

45:05

enough

45:08

with the self-help guest Jessica,

45:10

enough with perfecting yourself. We're

45:13

done with that. Stop apologizing

45:15

for being a human being

45:19

and she kept saying over and over again

45:21

I want you to love yourself

45:23

as much as you love me. Wow.

45:30

And I think that's what happened on my birthday

45:32

is I was like

45:34

yeah what would Kelly want me to do I have the time

45:36

of my fucking life and I

45:38

did. But love yourself as much

45:41

as you love me. It's like

45:44

what if we all treated ourselves the way

45:46

we would treat our best friend you

45:48

know it's so cliched and I know people

45:50

would say oh that's the most cliche. For me

45:53

that was exactly what I needed to hear because I

45:55

I do the opposite and so

45:57

hard on myself. I so feel like there's

45:59

always so something to work on and

46:02

change and fix. But it's

46:04

like, what if you're perfect just

46:07

the way you are? What

46:09

if? How much joy

46:11

you would have? How much less defensiveness?

46:15

Someone said, you fuck this up. You go, yep.

46:18

I did.

46:20

Okay. So what?

46:22

It's

46:25

very true.

46:27

So what? Very true.

46:30

I know.

46:31

That's what they want on the other side. They

46:33

want us to love ourselves just the way they are because

46:35

when they were living, they had a hard time with it

46:38

because that's the

46:39

being a human being.

46:40

But that is the, I think that's

46:43

the evolution. And that's the

46:45

evolution, right? That's the transcendence.

46:48

Gosh.

46:50

Gosh.

46:53

It's so hard, you know, and

46:55

as some of our

46:57

deep divers know, I struggle

47:00

so much with my menstrual cycle and

47:02

every day is a different experience of

47:04

myself based on where

47:07

I am in my cycle. But

47:10

I

47:12

love this message and I am really

47:15

loving this

47:16

time.

47:17

I'm really loving this time. And

47:20

I'm really just loving, you know,

47:22

I grew up as a latchkey kid. I didn't,

47:24

I had two working parents. I

47:27

never quite felt that my

47:29

parents had their shit

47:29

together.

47:32

And I felt like when I opened

47:34

my backpack at school, I didn't know if there was going

47:36

to be a luncheon there. I didn't

47:38

know if my parents were going to have gotten me the right

47:40

supplies. I always

47:42

felt like I had to do that stuff

47:45

because I

47:47

didn't trust that they

47:49

could.

47:51

And

47:52

the very shameful feeling as a child, I

47:54

felt very embarrassed about it, about

47:57

not having the right things, not having parents

47:59

who who knew even what was going

48:02

on to get the right things. And

48:04

also though, weirdly intuiting as a child

48:07

that I didn't want to put that

48:08

pressure on them.

48:11

Right. So it was like I knew that they didn't have

48:13

it together. I knew

48:15

that, but I also loved them

48:17

so much that I wanted to like

48:20

alleviate the pressure of having

48:22

to take care of my every need,

48:25

which, you know, something I've like

48:28

been battling with for the rest of my life. But

48:31

I am so,

48:32

boy, is it fucking healing for

48:35

me to provide that for my

48:37

children.

48:39

Yeah.

48:40

It's really quite

48:42

healing to be like, I

48:45

know that you have soccer today after school

48:47

and so I will put these things in your bag

48:49

and I will put

48:51

your extra snacks in so you can have

48:54

it.

48:55

And, you

48:57

know, sometimes

48:58

we talk about the mental load and

49:00

all of like the extra things that women do

49:02

and that's so true. But sometimes

49:05

what doesn't get talked about is like the

49:07

how sacred caretaking is.

49:11

How actually like

49:13

so

49:14

beautiful it is to, and

49:16

healing for me

49:18

to

49:19

take care of my children. I

49:22

just love it.

49:25

Yes.

49:27

You know, and it's not

49:29

that I'm like wanting to identify

49:31

as fucking super mom or, you

49:34

know, the sort of Instagram version of

49:36

like, I can organize and I'm super

49:39

at this. It's more of that. It's

49:41

so much deeper than that. So intimate

49:45

to

49:47

take care of children and to provide

49:51

security for them. It's not just the

49:53

stuff.

49:54

It's the sense of

49:56

I got you. So you

49:59

go be free.

49:59

And

50:01

you, I will

50:03

be your landing, you

50:06

know, I have a safe landing

50:08

for you so you can do

50:10

your thing.

50:12

And I am just loving having

50:15

the time and I know that there will, as

50:17

we go back to work and all that stuff,

50:19

like there will be times where that's not always

50:21

possible, right? No, I got sad. There

50:23

will be. I mean, I, of course, we

50:25

longed for

50:26

the strike to be over, but there was a collective

50:28

anxiety I could feel when

50:30

we

50:31

were hearing it was about to be done. It

50:33

was like, uh, like, cause are

50:36

we going to

50:37

be able to maintain

50:39

that slow down feeling? But

50:41

that is also in our control.

50:44

I do think so. And I think that,

50:47

you know, the

50:49

panic of the strike going on was

50:51

a panic.

50:51

And it was like,

50:54

and to be able to ride through it,

50:56

I'm very relieved that we could.

50:58

And there are people in our industry who will benefit,

51:01

not benefit at all from the deal we get. And

51:03

it's the implications. No, the crew,

51:06

the crew, people

51:08

losing their homes. Yes. People,

51:10

young people who started in the business and had to

51:12

move home. Like this is no joke.

51:15

No, it's so fucking real.

51:18

And I'm also finding,

51:20

I learned things about myself

51:23

in terms of like, I love this time

51:26

and I just like, I know

51:29

it doesn't last either. Like maybe turning 10

51:31

next weekend. And

51:34

when I was putting her to bed, I

51:37

thought,

51:39

Oh God, she's already halfway,

51:42

more than halfway to not

51:43

being here.

51:47

And I just was like, she's asleep.

51:49

You know, she fell asleep and I'm just sitting there crying,

51:51

you know?

51:53

I do know. Because that's also

51:56

like, I think so. I think

51:57

June.

51:59

I have put off the

52:02

happiness the feeling like I'm

52:04

happy because I I'm

52:07

afraid of what it would feel like if it

52:09

was ripped away from me So

52:11

if you're only half happy

52:14

Then you're protecting yourself if for some

52:16

reason it got taken

52:17

away or when it eventually they do

52:19

leave or something you you know

52:23

You keep yourself safe and

52:25

it's like no No No,

52:30

nothing nah When

52:34

did I write not a you in a text that got you

52:36

felt that Chills

52:39

me it's still it was something you asked

52:41

of me and I just said nah NaH

52:44

sent and it chilled

52:46

you to the bone

52:50

But you're right like those old ways do

52:52

not serve and we must evolve or die I

52:54

mean though that's a fall for dies is

52:58

You know, I guess what I'm taking with me through

53:00

the next through the rest

53:02

of the year

53:04

the least

53:06

You know what? I don't know Maybe this is an astrology

53:08

podcast But I just spoke to a friend

53:10

who's very into astrology yesterday and

53:12

she really took me through She had forecasted

53:15

the end of the strike to the day

53:18

To the day Okay

53:23

Wonderful from tracking the

53:26

astrological passages If

53:29

this is cool up, I don't buy it. No,

53:31

she's looking at her not her love. Good.

53:33

Then I'm not cool up but I believe it

53:36

So I thought that was great news and

53:38

I did ask about you know sag and etc.

53:41

And she

53:42

Said that by Halloween

53:43

it's in the it's all in the rearview mirror. So

53:45

I'm just gonna say that

53:47

And I say that now just in time

53:49

for three time. Yep as much

53:52

as I

53:53

Have shared on today's

53:54

podcast how you know that there are things about

53:56

caretaking

53:57

that I think in the cultural

53:59

way we understand caretaking and mothering,

54:02

it gets like into these buckets

54:04

and there's

54:06

narratives around it that never felt quite right

54:08

because they don't really get to the heart of the matter.

54:10

But I also struggle

54:13

with some caretaking and some of that is caretaking

54:15

of myself. I have a

54:17

fucking suitcase at the bottom of the stairs.

54:20

When will it come up?

54:23

What if you asked? Well,

54:25

what if you asked Paul

54:26

to bring it up? Wow.

54:28

Well, I did ask me to bring it out of the trunk

54:31

of his car, which was where it was.

54:33

And he did do that. What's

54:36

the best take you through what's happening now?

54:38

Well, first I arrived home. About two

54:41

days later, it came from the car.

54:43

Because it's

54:46

bottom of the stairs, right? The

54:48

business where things get dangerous,

54:50

actually,

54:51

like really kind of pulling things

54:54

out of

54:54

it without carrying it up.

54:57

First what was happening is I was like, my meds

54:59

are in there. Okay,

55:01

I can't be without those. Okay,

55:04

like, and right on

55:06

my period, like I need that

55:08

Prozac. Yeah.

55:11

And but it was

55:13

in the suitcase. And I was like, there's no

55:15

way I was upstairs. And I was like, there's

55:18

no way

55:18

to get it. There's not a way that I see

55:20

to get it. Not

55:23

that I see. So I

55:25

went two days without my meds

55:27

and my Vaita and all of my

55:30

things. I was like, I can't get it. And

55:33

then all my makeup was in there. Now

55:35

I had like your your JV

55:38

team of makeup. Okay, but

55:40

it was like, not my regular stuff.

55:44

So then I'm like on Zooms and doing

55:46

life and I'm like using

55:49

like

55:51

foundation from

55:53

years ago. Yeah.

55:55

Because

55:55

I can't get it open.

55:59

bottom of the stairs then we're fucked. What

56:02

are we breathing handfuls out? Because

56:04

what happened to things up what happened today

56:06

is I thought you know what

56:09

I'm gonna go on a run today. By the way

56:11

Jessica you might not even know this I'm running

56:13

a half marathon in January. You told

56:15

me I couldn't be more excited. Okay thank you

56:17

I did tell you so I gotta do my long runs. I'm

56:19

excited. I gotta go I gotta

56:22

do like a four mile today. Okay

56:24

well can't do it without my sneakers

56:28

and those are in the suitcase.

56:31

I went down to the bottom but this is where

56:35

this is where things really fell apart.

56:37

I went down to the bottom of the stairs and I did

56:39

some things and this is where I struggle

56:41

hard to complete a task. I did

56:44

some things like I thought oh these are two

56:45

packing cubes of dirty clothes I can

56:47

put them in the laundry chute which I did. Right

56:51

got my sneakers

56:52

and pulled up the belts

56:56

but the rest of it is down there.

56:59

Yeah

57:00

sitting in front

57:02

of our suitcase. I'm gonna text

57:05

Paul and ask him to bring it up.

57:07

If you can't somebody should. So

57:10

you know these are the things that I struggle

57:13

with and um

57:16

dead people don't care and

57:18

they certainly don't want you to shame yourself about an

57:20

open

57:21

thing. You know the other thing

57:24

that's the problem you're not I wish.

57:26

That's the problem I think maybe

57:28

I could do it a little more shame. You're

57:30

not gonna get it from me. I know I'm not but

57:32

you know it's like I'm

57:35

living out of a suitcase. I did bring

57:37

my meds up

57:38

and I did bring my makeup brushes up and my

57:40

makeup. So I'm living out of a suitcase in

57:43

my own home which feels wild.

57:46

One other quick thing and we're gonna

57:48

wrap it up. One of the quick things I wanted to tell

57:50

you

57:51

Anna Cecilia

57:54

are one of our producers on the Deep Dive podcast

57:57

and of course

57:58

Executive Assistant to the stars. Right.

58:01

It was over yesterday. And the doorbell

58:04

rang. And

58:07

she went over and started to open the door

58:09

before I could say no, because what

58:11

I saw on the ring camera was a deranged

58:13

man. Oh, no. Okay.

58:16

God. This is like one year like,

58:19

this is like one year dateline. I survived

58:22

this. Okay. So I'm

58:24

watching this

58:26

interaction and I

58:28

vibe this motherfucker

58:32

from rooms away. You've watched

58:34

enough times. It was a giant no for

58:36

me. It was a giant no.

58:40

And I

58:42

can't remember quite what he said, but he,

58:45

he was like, I've got an appointment. I'm the exterminator.

58:48

Oh, God. Okay. And

58:51

I'm like,

58:52

oh, no, camera. And

58:54

I turned to Alex, you can see me through my office and

58:56

I said, close the

58:57

door.

58:58

Close. Oh, my God,

59:01

June. I hear him asking her, like,

59:03

are you the owner of the home? Is the homeowner

59:05

there? And his energy was just

59:08

bananas. And I said, close

59:11

the door. And she said, she says, say,

59:14

hold on one second, I'll be right back or whatever

59:16

she said, you know, people aren't

59:18

as comfortable being rude as

59:20

I am. Yeah. And as

59:22

I am now, too. I know. Slam.

59:26

Slam, motherfucker. Don't come

59:28

to my house with that energy.

59:31

Door closes and

59:34

Anna comes back. And she's

59:36

like, he's the

59:38

exterminator. And I said, I don't have

59:41

it in the cow. He's not in

59:43

the family cow creature feature. Okay.

59:46

And I'm looking on the cameras.

59:50

I don't see his truck. I don't see.

59:52

I don't see anything that identifies

59:54

him as a part of an institution. And

59:58

then I'm watching him on the ring cam. And

1:00:01

he is behaving

1:00:03

like a lunatic. Oh

1:00:05

my God. This is so bad. He's

1:00:07

huffing and puffing, like looking

1:00:09

into the ring cam, looking at the way and now.

1:00:12

Oh no. And I was like, no. So

1:00:14

then I text Paul and I'm like, a

1:00:16

man is here,

1:00:17

so he's the exterminator.

1:00:19

And then Paul's like, let him

1:00:21

in. Wait. Okay.

1:00:24

Okay.

1:00:25

And then

1:00:26

Anna texts Paul's assistant. She's like, yeah,

1:00:28

yeah, yeah. They come every six months. I'm

1:00:30

like, I, I was her hide

1:00:33

nor hair

1:00:33

of this person.

1:00:35

So

1:00:36

yes, he was.

1:00:39

But what I was trying to express to

1:00:41

Paul is like,

1:00:43

I accept that he's an

1:00:46

exterminator. Okay. But

1:00:49

his behavior is unacceptable

1:00:52

to me. And he said

1:00:55

something to Anna when she went back.

1:00:59

He was like, well, you're scared of me. You

1:01:01

feel safe with me? And I was just like, oh

1:01:03

God. Oh no. Just because

1:01:05

somebody is in. No. Just because

1:01:07

somebody says they're an exterminator

1:01:09

doesn't mean they have to come in. And he

1:01:12

proceeded to walk. He was only

1:01:14

outside as an exterminator. So he didn't ever

1:01:17

come inside. But he proceeded to walk around

1:01:19

the house with a Bluetooth

1:01:20

in talking to

1:01:22

someone on the phone at

1:01:24

a volume that would blow your mind.

1:01:28

And

1:01:30

I was both irritated and glad

1:01:33

that I knew where he was at all times.

1:01:36

And then like I said to Paul, I'm like, do you not

1:01:38

care about my like

1:01:40

vibes with you? I'm telling you

1:01:42

something was so not right. You know, Dan,

1:01:44

Dan will suss that out immediately. Okay.

1:01:48

And Paul was like, the man works at Bugs for a

1:01:50

living. No, that's not. I've

1:01:52

met

1:01:52

some wonderful, wonderful

1:01:55

exterminators.

1:01:56

Yeah, that's what I said.

1:01:59

Anything the experimenters that I've actually

1:02:02

encountered are working

1:02:04

against the stereotype

1:02:07

of what it is to be a person who works

1:02:09

with bugs. Yes, I had

1:02:11

to battle a roach infestation

1:02:13

at my apartment, and

1:02:16

I don't know if I told the story, but Dan, the

1:02:18

moment the first one appeared, he

1:02:21

packed his stuff up, tipped his

1:02:23

hat, and left. I

1:02:25

totally understand the behavior. He said, that

1:02:27

set all the things on fire, I will not be

1:02:29

a part of this. And I instead was ordering

1:02:32

things in brown paper packages, unmarked

1:02:34

packages, trying to battle them on

1:02:36

my own. And I finally called in a professional who

1:02:39

was telling me some wild tales

1:02:42

that when he goes down to the basement of

1:02:44

these

1:02:45

apartment buildings,

1:02:47

he has to wear what looks like a knight's

1:02:50

hood

1:02:51

because the rats will jump at your

1:02:54

face.

1:02:55

They're blind.

1:02:57

And when they feel threatened, they'll jump into

1:03:00

your rouse. Are they blind? Yes,

1:03:02

they're basically blind. They go

1:03:05

off of memory

1:03:07

and sent,

1:03:08

okay?

1:03:11

They know the highways

1:03:13

and byways of these New York City

1:03:15

apartments. They went on a whole thing.

1:03:18

He's like, the moment they banned DDT

1:03:20

or whatever that was, he goes,

1:03:23

that war was lost. He

1:03:27

said, what you're not seeing behind,

1:03:29

you know, we've had friends who had a toilet

1:03:32

rat, they hold their breath. We

1:03:34

had a friend who's a gigantic super rat

1:03:36

in their oven. Okay,

1:03:38

now listen, our dear friend who she

1:03:41

said she had a mouse in the house, okay?

1:03:43

And I said, move. So I said,

1:03:46

you must move. Like there's no, in that

1:03:48

house weird, you must move. Like, I don't

1:03:50

know what to tell you. You set it on fire

1:03:52

and you walk away. You get out of there. They

1:03:55

live there now. Like, that's it. Nature's

1:03:58

taking back. over

1:04:00

and that is it for you. I

1:04:03

know. Anyway

1:04:06

Jess, we didn't even get

1:04:08

to talk about Taylor Swift and her new boyfriend

1:04:11

who I was on board for until

1:04:13

he walked out with that suit. Everybody's

1:04:16

upset about that. I am too. I

1:04:18

will say though that

1:04:20

Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift and

1:04:22

this budding romance. I'm a Kansas City Chiefs

1:04:25

fan. I want to see them already.

1:04:27

I want

1:04:27

to see them together. I am

1:04:29

fucking loving. I'm loving

1:04:32

that he put a call out

1:04:34

to her that she responded. I

1:04:36

love that she's wearing coordinated

1:04:39

outfits to the team that

1:04:41

she's up there in a red lip to his

1:04:43

mom. Time for her to have

1:04:46

some fun. Oh my god.

1:04:48

I am so excited about

1:04:50

this relationship or

1:04:53

whatever it is. I don't care what it

1:04:55

is. I just love it so

1:04:57

much. And to me this is

1:04:59

fall. This relationship

1:05:02

is fall and I know we're in summer

1:05:04

too and I know we'll explain

1:05:06

what all of these terms mean. New deep

1:05:09

divers but it's

1:05:12

giving me such a fresh lease

1:05:14

on life. These two together.

1:05:16

It's hot. It's hot.

1:05:18

And I know we shouldn't have worn that outfit

1:05:20

but he's still fucking hot. Let's

1:05:23

let her do her thing

1:05:25

with him and let's see

1:05:27

her. She takes his style.

1:05:31

Okay. Let's see.

1:05:34

Okay. As Bebe said, huge

1:05:36

Swift fan, I said it's

1:05:39

hard to date a football player. It's

1:05:41

hard. He's in a different city and she goes

1:05:44

hard to be with the superstar.

1:05:46

Maybe they understand one another. I think

1:05:49

they just might.

1:05:51

I think they just might and you know what? I think

1:05:53

it's just fun. I'm

1:05:55

here for it. I love

1:05:58

that. I think it's just fun. Divers,

1:06:00

thank you so much for listening. And

1:06:03

we've got so much more to talk about. We're

1:06:05

gonna really tackle Halloween next week. Guys,

1:06:07

I feel comfortable now. I feel

1:06:10

like I can breathe. It took a while.

1:06:12

Yeah, we might have to put a disclaimer

1:06:13

at the beginning of the episode to like fast forward

1:06:16

for the first, you know, what was probably

1:06:18

to say that, but, you know, I finally dropped in. Disregulation trigger one.

1:06:21

Yeah, I finally dropped in. Thank you guys for being on

1:06:23

this journey with us. We're here, okay? The

1:06:26

cheese was moved, but we are firm. We

1:06:28

found it and we're here. Yes,

1:06:31

and we will see you next week.

1:06:33

Bye guys. Live

1:06:36

for more, I'll see you guys. Live

1:06:40

for more, I'll see you guys. Live

1:06:44

for more, I'll see you guys. No

1:06:47

secrets we await you.

1:06:50

It's too damn tough. Go

1:06:53

with me. How these

1:06:55

stand to go. Oh, baby. Let's

1:07:00

go on a deep dive. Let's

1:07:04

go dive in.

1:07:10

There's more of the deep dive with Lemonade

1:07:13

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1:07:15

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1:07:17

where we answer questions from you. Questions

1:07:20

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1:07:22

I break up with my boyfriend? Yes, the

1:07:25

answer's always gonna be yes. Send

1:07:28

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1:07:30

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1:07:32

and Apple Podcast. The

1:07:35

deep dive is produced by Lemonade Media,

1:07:37

Jessica Sinclair and June Diane Rayfield.

1:07:40

Our producer is Anna Cecilia. Our associate

1:07:42

producer is Ani Madia and our

1:07:44

supervising producer is Jamila

1:07:46

Zura-Williams. Our engineer

1:07:48

is Johnny Van Sevens. Additional

1:07:50

Lemonade support from Steve Nelson,

1:07:52

Stephanie Whittles-Wax and Jessica

1:07:55

Cordova-Creamer. Special

1:07:57

thanks to Ann Gettys

1:07:58

for her cover art.

1:07:59

and Lennon Parham for her sweet, sweet

1:08:02

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1:08:20

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