0:00

There's something about fairness

0:02

of how you treat people Always

0:05

treat people in the same way

0:07

, whoever they are in the company , whatever

0:09

role they're doing . Their contributions

0:11

just as important . So you're always having that

0:13

fairness around people and that's

0:16

maybe the equality we talked a little bit before

0:18

. Good people always come back to you

0:20

. Here we are sitting , you tried

0:22

to move as far away as possible and

0:24

, you know , still here you are . Good people

0:26

come back to you , but people in general

0:28

. So treat people with respect . There's

0:31

something around karma . I'm not a Buddhist

0:33

, etc . But there's something around karma . So

0:36

you do treat people in a certain way and I

0:38

expect everybody around me to be

0:40

extremely respectful to

0:42

each other , even when they disagree . That's

0:44

okay . They can disagree all day long , but

0:47

they are respectful and they are going to be professional

0:49

to each other and I expect everyone to be that

0:51

in whatever circumstances . That is

0:53

and simply also coming back

0:55

to that , you know we all carry our own history

0:57

and career , all different backgrounds

1:00

, especially here in Canada where we

1:02

have extreme diversity . You

1:04

need to make sure that you really are

1:06

taking care of that and being that person

1:08

. Totally a little bit about discipline when it comes

1:10

to respect . It's also about being respectful of doing

1:13

what is expected from you and doing it

1:15

in time and quality , because others

1:17

are dependent on you . So how do you ensure that you

1:19

actually help others and allow others

1:21

to be in collaboration ? Because in the

1:23

end , it's a team . So if

1:25

I'm not doing my part , then quickly start

1:28

spalling apart on the weakest link

1:30

in the chain . And there's a lot to

1:32

be said . I think about that . It

1:34

depends on context . I probably highlight different

1:36

things .

1:40

Hello , ladies and gentlemen , and welcome to

1:43

Grand Slam Journey podcast , where we discuss

1:45

various topics related

1:47

to the Grand Slam Journey of our lives

1:49

Sports , business

1:51

and technology , and growing

1:53

our skills and leadership in

1:55

whatever we decide to put our minds into . For

1:58

my guest today , areas

2:02

of business and technology . I

2:05

know Jeanette from my days at Ericsson . I've

2:08

had the privilege to learn from

2:10

and be mentored by Jeanette

2:12

on several occasions and

2:14

I've decided to keep her in my life , even

2:17

after I have embarked on a

2:19

new career journey . I think

2:21

about my time at Ericsson very fondly

2:23

and meeting Jeanette has been definitely

2:26

one of the best experiences . During

2:29

this episode , we talk about her journey

2:32

from small town in Sweden all

2:34

the way to now becoming the president of Ericsson Canada

2:37

. We talk

2:39

about Jeanette's leadership and her principles . I

2:42

highlight several qualities that I have

2:44

personally observed and learned from

2:46

Jeanette , as well as her

2:49

view on telecommunications

2:51

, the outlook on the industry

2:53

, artificial intelligence and

2:56

convergence of the two . If you

2:58

enjoyed this listen , please share it

3:00

with someone you believe may enjoy it as well . Consider

3:03

leaving a review on Apple Podcasts

3:05

or Spotify , and don't forget to

3:07

subscribe so you don't miss the next episode . Note

3:11

this episode is also available

3:13

in video on YouTube Grand Slam Journey Channel

3:15

This is your host Klara

3:18

Jagosova . Thank you for tuning

3:20

in , and now

3:22

I bring you Jeanette

3:26

Irekvist . Hello , Jeanette , welcome to the Grand Slam Journey Podcast . So

3:29

great to have you .

3:31

Thank you , clara , for having me . It's

3:33

fantastic to see you and get to talk to

3:35

you . Thank you for inviting me . Oh , thank you .

3:40

I've been so privileged to have

3:42

you as an amazing leader and mentor in

3:44

my life . There's

3:46

many things , as I reflect on my

3:49

Erkson career , that I am very grateful for

3:51

and think very highly about , and

3:55

actually having the chance to meet

3:57

you and learn from you is definitely one of the top , and

4:00

so I'm so thrilled to talk

4:02

about your Grand Slam Journey of life

4:05

from Sweden To

4:07

now being the president of Erkson in Canada . I

4:11

know you're also an athlete you

4:13

do running , skiing and many of the things

4:16

that you have experienced who have your tremendous career . So

4:18

I'm curious where this conversation takes us

4:20

, but

4:23

I want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself

4:26

to the listeners , anything

4:28

you want to add and you'd like people to know about you . Thank

4:31

you for that introduction .

4:34

I feel it adds to the pressure of this conversation , but

4:37

I'll just maybe just do kind

4:39

of a checkpoint in time where I'm at now , because

4:43

I think we'll talk a lot about why and where and how it

4:45

took me here . But

4:47

so today , as you said , I'm leading

4:49

ourselves and business and operations here

4:52

in Erkson in Canada , been

4:55

doing so for a couple of years and also in my presidential I

4:58

get the privilege to work with our R&D , so

5:02

our research and development sites here

5:04

in Canada , which are two amazing sites with

5:07

an Ottawa , montreal , who are really helping

5:10

Erkson stay in the forefront of technology . So that's really

5:12

my role as it is today and it's been a long and

5:14

a winding road and I am

5:16

not here to give any career advice because

5:18

I've never really had any good career planning

5:20

myself , so I can just

5:22

start with that . But really been doing all the

5:24

things that you actually more or less can see

5:26

in the company

5:28

and been around , and I think

5:31

that's maybe what took me to this place , but

5:33

we'll talk more about that . But

5:36

that's where today I'm living outside Toronto and

5:40

I've been in North America for the past 10

5:42

years , after having been at Erkson for over 20 years . The

5:44

last 20 years has been in

5:46

the US and Canada , so it's been a very privileged

5:48

and blessed journey .

5:50

I love diving into all of that and

5:53

I would say you're underplaying your skill set . I

5:56

do actually have some surprise quotes . Yes

5:59

, I'm still connected to some of your teams and

6:01

I was asking them what should I bring up ? What

6:04

should I ask Jeanette , how's her leadership ? And

6:07

so I'm going to try to bring some of those

6:09

up because later on in the conversation

6:12

, because they're just fantastic and I think they

6:14

deserve to be heard from

6:16

across the world . But I do want to

6:18

go back . Maybe I want

6:20

to start back in Sweden . I

6:23

love knowing where my guests come from . I

6:26

have international guests and so it's

6:28

always interesting to hear about

6:30

their upbringing in their country , where

6:33

they're from . So you're obviously from Sweden

6:35

, but if you take us back a

6:37

little bit to your upbringing

6:39

, did you play sports ? And

6:41

even what may have influenced you on

6:43

this path of business and technology ?

6:45

I guess that's a long dinner conversation

6:48

to how you know who are you . Where did you come from ? I'm a

6:50

small town girl from a small

6:52

town and outside a small town

6:54

in Sweden , so really out

6:56

in the small suburban areas , and

6:59

I am a child of an immigrant mother

7:02

and a Swedish father . So I

7:04

grew up , I guess , multicultural

7:07

my whole life . I love

7:09

Sweden and all the beauty of it as

7:11

a country but as a people , the

7:14

openness and willingness

7:16

to always see new things , but

7:18

also simplicity and

7:21

equality . That goes

7:23

across as kind of a red thread throughout our culture

7:25

and who we are . So loving that

7:28

part , but also then having

7:30

a mother who is from Croatia , I got all the

7:32

sudden Mediterranean blood

7:34

and habits , family culture

7:36

with big dinners

7:39

and I guess you see the hand gestures already coming

7:41

here . It's not just Italians who have them , the

7:43

rest of us from down there have them as well . Usually

7:47

my husband would tell me , like you know , you're a pretty calm person in general

7:49

, but your

7:52

Mediterranean blood you can really show it when you , when you drive . So that's

7:54

seemingly the biggest . You know , that's where I have my biggest

7:56

up . I like

7:59

to drive as a one of a sudden Mediterranean person

8:01

, I guess that's kind of my family . So

8:04

I'm used to kind of spending my summers down in Croatia and

8:06

Sweden . So I'm used

8:08

to that multicultural conference , which I think has absolutely affected

8:11

me in my work choices , and

8:13

wanting to work in a global company where

8:15

you have kind of the whole world as

8:18

you work in field and you get to meet people

8:20

from all the cultures who continuously

8:22

exposed from all that beauty and

8:25

all the you know , intelligence and all those insights

8:27

that you get from the whole world , and I just love that part

8:29

. The other thing is

8:31

that when you grow up like me , I wasn't out on a country

8:33

farm so it wasn't that bad but

8:36

really when you're in a small place like me , in a small village

8:38

, there isn't too much to do . So you

8:40

kind of have to kind of grab on to the things that are there to do . So

8:44

we talked about sports . I have

8:46

played soccer and ping pong . I've

8:48

tried almost any sport there

8:50

is because I just kind of tried it out , because you know just to have something

8:52

to do and keep myself busy , and

8:56

I very quickly concluded that

8:58

my feet are there to run

9:00

with . They should not do a ball while they're

9:02

on . That's not my thing , absolutely

9:06

. I'm not even close to it . So

9:08

what I've done , I did a lot of swimming

9:10

in my young up to kind of high schools

9:13

, which I think I learned a lot around

9:15

discipline and , you know , pushing

9:17

through and kind of consistency

9:19

. And then it worked on with European

9:21

handball . A lot of Americans wouldn't know

9:23

but you know the European handball way through

9:25

something and I really enjoyed getting to love

9:28

that . I think it was really the team sport . You

9:30

know part of it and everybody finding their role

9:32

and their strength in the team and how you play

9:34

together and kind of leading that and through

9:37

that also being engaged in anything

9:39

from scouting to everything that was really in

9:41

our little village to do . I've been trying it all . But

9:44

so I think that's my upbringing and

9:47

then as I grew up , moving

9:49

to the university as more or less the far away I

9:51

could from me on my small town just

9:53

to see , kind of start seeing the world and I guess the rest

9:55

is history .

9:57

I love the variety in sports too , so

10:00

it seems like running was one

10:02

that you enjoyed quite a bit when

10:04

you were young , and I know even actually when we

10:06

met and you lived in Jersey , you were running

10:08

some 10K and even perhaps training

10:10

for half a marathon .

10:12

Yes , I didn't get further in that , I'm not crazy

10:15

enough for that , but I got to the

10:17

half marathon .

10:18

I didn't even do the half marathon , I stopped

10:20

. Actually , I say my feet are now worn out , so

10:23

I saved them for once . A week running

10:25

on the court . That's about all they can handle . I

10:28

actually got one of the cold plunges that you

10:30

guys have naturally in Sweden and it's

10:33

more common that people do . The sun

10:35

and cold plunge Works actually

10:37

fantastic for my feet and

10:39

recovering my feet , yeah . But I'm not

10:42

much of a runner anymore . I

10:44

used to be , yeah , and I give skiing

10:46

, so you ski , you're an avid skier .

10:48

I'm skiing , but I think then again

10:50

, coming back to kind of map bringing , I'm

10:53

an outdoorsy person . It might be Swedish

10:55

and you're far out in the woods , so

10:57

for me , the natural environment where

10:59

you go and you don't decompress or

11:01

get strength , for me it's

11:04

the woods . I would walk in , out in the woods or

11:06

even in other lakes . It's always about

11:08

being outdoors and the finding sports

11:10

where you get that opportunity to go outdoors

11:13

is a must for me because I

11:15

need to get that disconnect

11:17

, that freshness , fresh air or whatever

11:20

. That is where you just let your thoughts roam

11:22

and just be out . So

11:25

after the winter it is

11:27

downhill skiing as something

11:30

I really do love , which has been

11:32

this appointment in the Toronto winter

11:34

this year we have had very warm winter , so has been

11:36

less of that running , simply

11:39

because not so much because I really enjoy

11:41

it , if I admit it , but because

11:43

it may not it does help me

11:45

and you can do it anywhere . So when you're

11:47

traveling , everyone has to find their outlet

11:49

and whatever works with your life , take

11:52

that and then I'm not as

11:54

strong as you are , but I do go to the gym

11:56

because I do believe that there's this strength

11:58

and heart . You need to

12:00

do both kind of muscles and cardio . Let's

12:02

just put it that way . I don't lift as much as you

12:04

do , but I do a little bit .

12:07

Well , I started lifting more because I couldn't

12:09

run as much , so I had to find a new hobby

12:12

. I always say injuries make

12:14

you uncover new sports , because suddenly

12:16

you realize , oh I can't really do this and

12:19

what do I fill up my day with and feel

12:21

like I can progress , and actually that's

12:23

good in lifting because I

12:25

second lifting tennis players are some of the

12:27

worst lifters ever , so I had to

12:29

learn from the ground up of how

12:31

to lift heavyweight . So it's something

12:34

I'm still stuck at . When you look at actually

12:36

my frame and my body weight and don't

12:39

lift much weight , it just looks better on

12:41

videos than the weight probably is , but

12:43

it's heavy enough for me , and so I always

12:45

find it's important to

12:47

create variety and

12:50

have change in life , especially as we uncover

12:52

injuries . So I just want to commend you on adding

12:54

lifting , because I think that's something that especially

12:56

women underestimate quite

12:59

a bit and because of the aging

13:01

not that you would age , you look amazing

13:03

.

13:04

No , but it is with aging . I mean I don't take

13:06

it like , don't worry , I'm fully embracing

13:09

where I am in life , with

13:11

all the challenges that might be , and

13:14

it's absolutely with my age like it becomes

13:16

more important . But that's I mean we all

13:18

need to recognize who we are and where

13:20

we are in life and help yourself

13:23

the best you can . Appreciate also that

13:25

you got the life with them

13:27

in there without even trying to . When you said , like

13:29

if I'm having an injury , I actually try to do something

13:31

new . So you know , when the door closes , another

13:33

one opens and I mean and really

13:35

see that way not just that you're losing something

13:38

, but you actually are discovering something new

13:40

that you might not have otherwise have tried

13:42

. So you know , I agree with you , that's

13:45

a very good way of seeing it .

13:47

Thank you . Well , it's haven't come without a

13:49

lot of resistance to injuries and suddenly

13:51

I realized , you know , beating my head over the wall

13:53

doesn't really help . I might as well try

13:55

to create a new door . Oh

13:57

, that's good , yeah . And

14:00

so going more

14:02

into business and technology

14:04

. Obviously , ericsson is an

14:06

amazing brand , especially in Sweden . Actually

14:09

, I left coming to sort

14:11

of the mothership . When you come to the

14:13

airport it almost seems like your home

14:15

is like Ericsson's everywhere . I

14:17

guess , from even just brand recognition

14:19

, it makes sense that it will be a

14:21

fantastic company to work for

14:24

. But what was your journey ? And

14:26

you have this beautiful convergence of

14:28

being a business minded leader

14:31

with understanding of technology . How

14:33

was that path and journey for you ?

14:35

So I don't think that my journey is a typical

14:37

Swedish journey into Ericsson , but

14:40

I'll start with , probably then , what's my

14:43

more of a driver , because most people

14:45

you will speak to will say that they come from the technology

14:48

space , which I did not . I came from

14:50

the business space and I know already

14:52

. When I was a kid my mom remembers

14:55

and she loves to remind

14:57

me that that I was kind of picking flowers

14:59

around in the gardens and then I went and

15:01

sold that to my elderly neighbors

15:03

as small bouquets . Now we're

15:05

talking about five years old , so

15:08

I guess I grew up in a way of always

15:10

wanting to do something and getting

15:12

things done . And then

15:14

, as I grew up , as soon as you could get

15:16

to work , I've always had all these odd jobs

15:19

. I've been doing this like a 7-Eleven

15:21

. I've been doing elderly care , I've

15:23

been cleaning . I'll be

15:26

standing in supermarkets , I've been selling

15:28

clothes , I've been handing a cheese market

15:30

out on it , like I mean , like all

15:32

kind of odd jobs I've . You know , I've probably named

15:34

it and I've probably had it . So I've

15:36

always enjoyed working

15:38

and also , especially then I realized working

15:41

with two different aspects of one is drive

15:43

business and drive value for whatever

15:45

customers if they are coming and trying

15:47

to find a new suit for their sister's wedding

15:50

or if it's you know , something

15:52

else is driving them . But that conversation

15:54

around doing business and

15:56

doing good business that actually both

15:59

parties enjoy , that's I

16:01

realized quickly . I really enjoy that . And

16:04

then also there's something around that service , that

16:06

people interaction , of finding

16:08

that you do something that are value . But

16:10

then I also wanted to go beyond

16:12

maybe what we would call fast moving , consuming

16:15

goods . That's kind of that every day , but

16:17

something that drives a change , something

16:19

where you feel like you're influencing

16:21

where we're heading or what's going on

16:23

, or the next generation or

16:25

something that's there to me is around

16:28

sustainability and how can we affect the

16:30

, make , you know , the world actually better place . So

16:33

you know , of course , enter

16:35

technology because if you look at the tools

16:37

we have , it's very much around the technology

16:39

space and that is going to

16:41

be a prime driver for more or less everything

16:43

we do in society . So

16:46

when I got the opportunity to join the

16:48

area , I came

16:50

from a business and law . Those

16:52

were my degrees and you know what I brought

16:54

in and then I had to model started . I

16:56

always cut the third education . I had

16:58

to kind of go on telecoms , one

17:00

on wow and just start learning

17:02

again . And then I learned technology

17:05

. If you look at my peers and colleagues in the company

17:07

, we have so many amazing experts

17:09

and this is probably why I'm here . I wasn't 25

17:11

years later . I just thrive on

17:13

the smartness that I see in the company . But

17:17

I brought another aspect and kind of bringing

17:19

that together and that's always been my role and

17:21

that's really why I enjoy it . So when

17:23

you ask you know why and why here

17:25

still after all these years , it's

17:28

really that that I get to really bring that

17:31

together and it's been in so many different

17:33

parts of our industry so

17:35

it's been a typical network type of business but also

17:37

been on the device side I mean

17:40

more on consumer research . So there's

17:42

so many aspects and

17:44

perspectives on this , how we drive it , that

17:46

I've been able to engage in . So

17:48

I've always thought I'll have you know a couple

17:50

of years and then I probably move on because

17:52

you know what can I do after that . And

17:55

somehow I just remained

17:57

. So that was really not the intention . If

17:59

I , you know , put it's a blunt

18:01

, but here I am and that's still

18:04

why I'm here .

18:06

I love hearing you describing it . That

18:08

really comes comes very authentic

18:10

. And what comes to mind when I hear

18:13

you say there's also this reinvention that

18:16

stands out to me about you because

18:18

, as you mentioned , every role you've had

18:20

at Ericsson , it seems like , was different

18:23

than the previous one , and

18:25

so Ericsson is such a huge company

18:27

and obviously now we're Ericsson

18:29

I've still talked about we . Okay , I'm not

18:32

at Ericsson anymore .

18:33

I think I'll work there for too long .

18:35

I appreciate it . I appreciate it .

18:37

Thank you .

18:38

And Ericsson is not in device anymore . There

18:41

was a Sony Ericsson venture right there where

18:43

fantastic phones I did have one of my first

18:45

ones was the Sony Ericsson

18:47

and people still remember that often

18:50

but there's many different groups

18:52

and it seems like your versatility

18:54

through had your career and

18:56

probably related to curiosity

18:59

and learning , kind of helped you

19:01

push yourself out of the comfort

19:03

zone and try something new to

19:06

where you're now at amazing position

19:09

. I do want to highlight President Situ

19:11

, jeanette , if there is a petition

19:13

for the Ericsson CEO , I'll

19:15

sign it and I know many people would as well

19:18

. I think your attributes of leaderships

19:20

are fantastic , but

19:23

it's not supposed to be

19:25

compliment . I mean it is , but it's a reality

19:27

. I don't say things anymore that I truly

19:30

don't mean , and so when you look at your

19:32

career , maybe even I'll take you

19:34

back . You started at

19:36

Ericsson as a contract manager for the

19:38

Nordics and Baltic regions

19:40

, which was a really exciting time

19:43

. 3g and building out 3G networks

19:45

right , that's where a lot of growths have

19:47

happened in telecom . And

19:50

you close the first 3G

19:52

deal in Nordics , building one of

19:54

your first 3G networks in all

19:56

of Sweden , and first

19:58

on network , which is very

20:00

complex , actually co-ownership for

20:02

anybody who understands Telco , between

20:05

the two competing operators , telya

20:08

and Telethu . And so , if you look at

20:10

that and their reinvention

20:12

to where you at now , what are

20:14

some of the key aspects you would want to highlight

20:18

about your roles that

20:20

you perhaps really found

20:22

enjoyable and things

20:24

that you've learned oh , this is actually super fun

20:27

and maybe even things that didn't

20:29

come as naturally to you , that you

20:31

had to perhaps learn their harder way .

20:33

Those are so many things at the same time

20:36

, so you guide me if I get

20:38

stuck on something , and I would say

20:40

that it was early on . I had leaders

20:42

that had the confidence

20:45

in throwing me into things that I didn't know

20:47

, but they were kind of there to pick me

20:49

up if I needed it . So I think that just knowing

20:52

that you had that support and early on and

20:55

being unafraid , I mean

20:57

I still have that . What

20:59

is the worst thing ? I mean I know I'm never

21:02

going to do something that is unethical . So

21:04

the worst thing that can happen to me is that I get fired

21:06

, and if I get fired I'll find a new job . It's

21:09

just what's the worst things that can happen

21:11

to you if you stand up for something you think is right

21:13

and you do what you need to do for whatever that

21:15

is . So sometimes you need to just put things

21:17

in perspective and think about that

21:19

, and I think that there's different ways of

21:21

now . Maybe I'm not answering your question , I'm

21:23

going sideways here . Then you just pull

21:25

me back . But there's something about

21:27

how you think about a career and

21:30

often I struggle with meeting

21:32

especially , I think , north American young

21:34

people , because they're so determined

21:36

and they have such ambitions and they already

21:39

can put in words . There are those ambitions

21:41

of whether they're heading and I

21:43

come and you know , I'm like 50 years old

21:45

and I can still not put it in words and I'm like I

21:47

have no idea how they do it and I certainly

21:49

didn't do that there . It's like how do

21:52

you , how can you be so certain

21:54

of all these things that you want and

21:56

where you're going ? So I think then it becomes maybe

21:58

more easier for me . It wasn't that way . I'm

22:01

more learned where I , where

22:03

I enjoyed myself , what I thought was fun

22:06

, and that was very much like

22:08

I said creating new business , driving

22:10

value , finding where I was thinking

22:12

, okay , I can make impact , I'll make a change

22:14

here , I can add something . And then I drive and really

22:17

learning new things , which means

22:19

that I have always I

22:21

don't know if I want to recommend this to anyone , but I've

22:23

always taken on jobs where

22:26

I don't really know it , like

22:28

I'm really not certain about

22:30

this thing and I am really

22:32

uncomfortable , and some jobs have

22:34

been like really pushing it

22:36

. Getting this job was absolutely

22:39

pushing it , cause I was like what do

22:41

I do now ? And it was in the midst of the COVID

22:43

. I was sitting in Texas and I was starting to

22:45

lead a Canadian organization which

22:48

is like how do you do that ? I

22:50

had been in sales and marketing

22:53

and all these roles and then a leader

22:55

entrusted me to take an operational

22:58

role which meant that I was going

23:00

to start building networks . I had a part

23:02

at . I drive in a car , blue

23:04

color , people were , you know , at climbing towers

23:07

. I know nothing about it and

23:09

still I went out to do it and

23:11

I think it's about what drives you . I

23:13

really want to understand some

23:15

as much as possible about

23:18

what we do and

23:20

really know , because when you

23:22

do , you can show much higher

23:25

respect to all of these

23:27

different aspects and the trades

23:29

that are going on in the company and

23:32

you can be a better leader . I don't need to know

23:34

exactly how a certain product

23:36

is developed or how somebody's operating

23:38

a certain system . It's okay

23:40

if I don't , but I understand the complexity

23:43

of their world , which means I

23:45

can help them do their jobs

23:47

, hopefully , in a better way and

23:50

continue to be better , and we can all

23:52

kind of be better

23:54

together . So I think it's like that constant canyons

23:56

and being okay with being

23:59

fully uncomfortable in something

24:01

and knowing you are not the best

24:03

, probably even the worst in the team on

24:05

something , and they have to kind of teach you

24:08

and then trust that somebody will help you and teach

24:10

you . So just to prove my point

24:12

in this , I felt that

24:14

in my role now

24:16

I'm continuing to try to learn things , obviously

24:19

, but often you know it also becomes intellectual

24:21

. So back to what you said about sports etc . So

24:23

I'm like I really need to push myself in

24:25

being more uncomfortable . So you know

24:28

between you and me what

24:30

I did I started dancing

24:32

. So here I am dancing and I'm trying

24:34

to dance like the Buchada

24:36

and all these kind of things and , like

24:38

Shania Twain , these hips are not lying , my

24:40

arms are not lying , they will not move

24:42

, it is not happening

24:45

Like . It's like so uncomfortable for

24:47

me , but I'm like I

24:49

need to be comfortable being uncomfortable and

24:51

also knowing that so many people around me

24:53

, when I'm throwing out ask or I don't think people

24:56

to do things . We're all kind

24:58

of in that environment continuous , and especially in

25:00

an industry like this that is changing so fast

25:02

and we never really know what's coming our way

25:04

then we all we know is that a year from now our business

25:06

looks different . We just continuously need to be comfortable

25:09

with that uncertainty , etc . So I

25:13

think that that's maybe what's been driving

25:15

me is really I really love to learning

25:17

things and push and be better

25:19

and kind of get there . So

25:21

I've had the breath . Others might be

25:23

going much more into depth . I don't

25:25

have enough patience for that . That would never work for

25:28

me and I know that . So it's depending

25:30

on who you are , where do you thrive

25:32

and how do you learn and what really makes you

25:34

tick and drive . That's

25:37

the way you look at your career . But

25:39

if you ask me , like did I have a plan

25:41

of going for a certain role ? Like just

25:43

closing that first contract

25:45

in 3G , you having two competitors

25:48

fighting over them , trying negotiate and close

25:50

a deal , no , but I realized

25:52

I loved it . I loved the negotiation part . I

25:54

thought it was the most fun thing ever and

25:56

, you know , getting to a final point where

25:58

everybody was happy like that was , you know

26:00

, fantastic . So you

26:02

need to kind of know this but then decide

26:04

from there and maybe not make

26:08

your decisions or your plans according

26:11

to an organization or a title

26:13

or I don't know whatever , because those

26:15

are just temporary , always

26:18

temporary . But think about what you

26:20

get to do and what you learn and how

26:22

you contribute . I think that's much

26:24

more important .

26:26

You touched on several things in your

26:29

description . Now that I had written down and

26:31

I actually want to tie them to some

26:33

of my secret helpers that shared

26:36

amazing tips . I

26:38

can totally understand stepping into

26:40

such a big role . I mean COVID for anyone

26:43

was threatening enough and now people

26:46

are worried across board

26:48

for not even obviously their jobs

26:51

, economy and being able to have

26:53

their livelihood , but their health and health

26:55

of their loved ones . And , at

26:58

least from my view , you've been always very

27:00

hands-on or kind

27:02

of personal leader . You actually like to what

27:05

I mean by that . You like to meet your team and

27:07

you like to really get

27:09

to know them , who they are , and

27:11

so one of my friends

27:13

you actually may know she said I can

27:15

share her name with sell . So you've

27:17

been so amazing during

27:19

the COVID times , especially like

27:22

balancing the COVID economic shift

27:24

, remote teams , which

27:26

is so hard to create this

27:28

good impact and bond over

27:31

virtual calls . I still love

27:33

meeting people . 3d in like the

27:35

real version . I don't think anything can

27:37

really fully replace it . Let's see

27:39

if the ARVR will do its justice

27:41

with the even Apple

27:43

vision for all new glasses and

27:46

spatial computing . How do you balance

27:48

that ? I do see that as your strength

27:50

and even tying on your muta

27:52

cultural perspective and

27:55

what you have this taking

27:57

people as individuals

28:00

for kind of who they are and

28:02

where they come from , but being

28:04

able to inspire them

28:06

to even stretch themselves

28:09

beyond their comfort zone . There was another

28:11

of your . Your direct reports

28:13

shared with me some amazing insights about

28:16

your intuitive net . Has

28:18

it been something that you had to train

28:20

or do you think , throughout a

28:22

lot of the cultural upbringing that you have had

28:24

, it came quite naturally to you ?

28:26

Firstly , of course , thank you for those kind

28:28

words . The way I've

28:31

been brought up is really that I'm

28:33

not limited

28:35

in any way . Maybe in behavior

28:37

, certain ways you need to behave , maybe , and respect

28:40

others , and all of those things which I think

28:42

are very sound values . But

28:44

there's never been a limit to what I can

28:46

or cannot do or what I should

28:49

or should not do that would have

28:51

a content like a cultural context or

28:53

a gender context or any of that

28:56

. I've never had that . So for me those

28:58

limits don't exist . So if I just

29:01

put that away to begin with , then when

29:03

I meet the person there , you will have

29:05

a few . Of

29:07

course there will be exceptions , but

29:10

I would say the majority of people I always meet

29:12

always underestimate how

29:14

much and what they can do , how

29:17

good they are , what they can achieve

29:19

, what they can bring to a conversation

29:22

, what they just bring by being themselves

29:24

. Almost everyone underestimates

29:27

that and that for me is always

29:29

so interesting when I meet them . So

29:31

this thing about

29:33

bringing

29:35

out what's best in people , that's

29:37

, you know , obviously one of the absolute

29:40

best part being a people either . That's why

29:42

I mean this is the best part of my

29:44

job . But then I think there's something

29:47

else . It's something around , and you

29:49

know you brought up with a golden rule , so

29:51

always think about how you treat others . Treat

29:53

others as you want to be treated yourself

29:55

, and I fully subscribe to

29:58

it . But I think that there's more to

30:00

say to that , and so I think that I'm applying

30:02

the golden rule with a twist , and

30:04

my twist is that I believe

30:07

that you need to treat every person

30:09

you meet the way they need

30:11

to be treated . And

30:13

for me , that is when I meet you , clara

30:16

, how I know you , so I kind of know

30:18

it's easier . But if I meet somebody

30:20

else with other needs , depending on where they are

30:22

in their lives , we all come with so much

30:25

history and at that specific

30:27

point in life you're probably having so much with

30:29

you . So it's about how do you

30:31

take that person for where they are

30:33

right now , with all the challenges , all

30:36

the duties and everything that's in

30:38

them , and kind of make the best

30:40

for them . And it's not about what

30:42

I would have done , because that does , at least in general

30:44

, like well , I would have done and have a long

30:46

list of things I could tell . But that's

30:48

not the point . The point is not what

30:51

I would have done or who I am . It's

30:54

like , how do you take this person and just let

30:56

them elevate when you have that meeting with somebody

30:58

, it's just that , that opportunity

31:01

to see that person flourish and go somewhere

31:03

else , that I just that's for

31:05

me pure beauty and

31:07

love it and

31:09

you're so good at it I guess even highlight

31:12

even now what I have felt .

31:14

Your presence and this is another comment

31:16

that came from my friends , helpers

31:18

, sending me many different emails you're

31:21

so good as a leader to paying

31:23

attention to that scenario

31:26

, team , individual , kind of , whatever setting

31:29

you're at , and your presence is always

31:31

so strong and so fell

31:33

that I know actually many times , when we had

31:35

even mentorship meetings , I felt

31:38

so bad after because I just kept going on and

31:40

you just kind of let me keep going . I think you

31:42

, you were 30 minutes late for just

31:44

another meeting and but how

31:46

do you practice that ? Or has that

31:48

been a skill that has

31:51

been born in you would say again , through your upbringing

31:53

, or you have worked on refining through

31:55

? How do you career ?

31:59

I don't know . I wish I had a smaller answer

32:01

. I really don't know . I

32:03

think the pure interest and my

32:05

absolutely ground

32:08

belief is that people are good and people

32:10

want to do good and they want to

32:12

do better , sometimes to my detriment . I come

32:14

from a place of trust . If I meet

32:16

a person , I just assume anyone

32:18

in my was and they're here because they're smart

32:21

, they are learned a lot , they have

32:23

had to prove themselves a lot like there's

32:25

, like they have all these things , they're

32:27

all the qualifications for everything . So

32:29

then it's just like allowing them to kind of

32:31

continue that path . So I

32:34

think like that for me is kind

32:36

of the basics . That's where I come from

32:38

. But then I think that the holder you get and

32:41

the more you can put your ego to

32:43

the side or you know , you

32:45

can let things go , the easier it is

32:47

to let others come forward

32:50

or help them , etc . I mean , I've

32:52

been doing all these things , I've had this fantastic

32:54

experience . I , you know , now it's

32:57

for me is to find the next ones that are

32:59

coming in . Those are 20 years young

33:01

and me now I'm like , guys , now

33:03

you need to come and take over , like that's my

33:06

job , that's more my job than anything else

33:08

. So I think it's

33:10

a little bit of age and experience . I think

33:12

you know it gets easier

33:15

, but I mean from the beginning it has to

33:17

be somehow , I guess , an

33:19

interest and our people and you know

33:21

, just as much as I'm curious in learning

33:24

for my own sake , I guess I'm

33:26

just as curious about people and

33:29

that might come from that I'm always

33:31

been mixing cultures and people and

33:33

traveled . You know I traveled

33:35

during my whole my whole the university

33:37

years . My kids always make

33:40

fun of me because I maxed out

33:42

my years at university but it was often

33:44

because I started double and then I traveled is

33:46

it my turn ? And then I started double again , just

33:48

just to try to get in so many trips as

33:50

possible in it , just to go out and you

33:53

know and see and experience that . So

33:55

I think that's maybe the basics

33:58

of it , but then there's no

34:00

specific . I wish I said trick or something

34:02

. I even thought about that . I'm doing . It is

34:04

that's probably just me it

34:08

is you .

34:09

Actually , I have to say it's

34:11

from my experience in working

34:13

on teams under

34:15

many different leaders . This

34:18

quality is just much

34:20

different for you than some of the other

34:22

leaders I have worked under . Not

34:25

to be sexist , but I have

34:27

to bring this up because I

34:29

do find that the scale seems

34:31

to be more common for at least some of the

34:33

women leaders I have seen or

34:35

I have worked under , and so at Ericsson there

34:37

actually haven't been that many , so being privileged

34:40

to see and experience your

34:42

leadership meant a lot . And then I've seen

34:44

kind of just whole other variety at Apple

34:46

. That looks very different , but I find

34:49

this more common with

34:51

some of the strong

34:54

women leaders we're able to step

34:56

into almost like more different leadership

34:59

styles and variety of leadership styles

35:02

. Then perhaps some of the man

35:05

leaders have seen and observe , I

35:07

think you're probably right , and

35:09

I think it's .

35:10

It's not because women

35:14

or men are better leaders or for different reasons

35:16

, but I think there's something to be said

35:18

about the context , how we grow up and

35:21

I think that is we are

35:23

, and at least maybe my generation and

35:25

like we're brought up in certain type of context , and

35:27

how the typical behaviors are and what

35:29

they are , and it allows us

35:31

, if we dare to , as women

35:34

or as men , like it allows us different

35:36

spectras , probably as well , to how

35:38

we can act . So as a woman

35:40

, I can be maybe

35:42

a lot of things that a man is

35:44

not typically supposed to

35:46

be or can allow himself . So

35:48

the the the spectrum of

35:50

how you can behave or act

35:53

in your leadership looks a bit different

35:55

. I think . I think it is changing . If

35:57

I look at young international as we're coming

36:00

up , but I think that as we grew

36:02

up , that was kind of it . So a man

36:04

who is my like , a white , middle-aged

36:06

man , you know , I they

36:08

probably are , you know

36:10

, supposed to be in a certain way , like they feel

36:13

that there are also certain expectations , while

36:15

I have more freedom in certain aspects

36:18

, while there are other limitations I

36:20

absolutely have . So I

36:22

think it's something there as well , that we

36:24

could have many more men that could be there , but

36:27

it's not really how it's been and

36:29

or even how we've been raised , and I think we'll

36:31

probably see maybe a change

36:33

there , as we're seeing change in leadership

36:35

overall , mm-hmm and

36:39

just to tie on one more that

36:41

I find you do fantastic

36:43

, and again it relates to this ability

36:45

to stretch , to different types of leaderships

36:48

.

36:48

Understand , even at Ericsson , and some of the things I

36:50

had to learn a lot is how

36:52

do I become a different type of leader ? And

36:54

I know being part of a lot of even just

36:56

the women group or really whichever

36:59

group they are . Most of these groups we

37:01

feel like there are some things that we're not being

37:03

valued enough or we want more opportunities

37:06

for progress . So if you look at Echor's

37:08

the board , actually the problems are the same

37:10

no matter which group you're part of . But

37:13

one of the things , especially for women and

37:15

what seems to be a mob , and even

37:17

I struck with it myself is like

37:20

there's this type of person

37:23

and this is not me which

37:26

I kind of disagree . I think it's a lot

37:28

of applying skill set and

37:30

so sorry that's a long-winded lead

37:33

. But to say , one of the things that I really

37:35

appreciate about you that helped me understand

37:37

is your calmness under pressure

37:40

and never being emotionally

37:42

sort of out of control . And so me , being

37:44

from a family I'm Czech

37:47

ever my listeners know that

37:49

, but I would say my Czech family

37:51

was almost like Italians . It was

37:53

always just wild , like there's you

37:55

know chair being thrown out of the

37:57

windows at some points of my

37:59

you know live with that was just totally

38:01

fine . So I've always grown

38:04

up around a lot of type

38:06

of drama , sort of argue

38:09

, and so if you see that happening

38:11

in your upbringing it wires

38:13

you a certain way , and so seeing your

38:15

steady women

38:17

leadership that is still feminine , but

38:19

being able to step into this

38:22

direct , confident

38:24

and assertive leader when you

38:26

have to you , was so

38:29

game-changing for me and it's I

38:32

don't want to say I have it down , I'm

38:34

practicing of how to get

38:36

there and when to get there . But how was

38:38

that skill for you , and is

38:40

that something that you had to

38:42

refine or specific instances

38:44

that helped you understand how

38:46

and when to step into those type of

38:48

shoes , to be more direct

38:50

and assertive in those conversations

38:53

and don't let your emotions escalate

38:56

when I was at university .

38:58

It was a business course and one of the things we got

39:00

was to look at commercials

39:03

and ads and then we would

39:05

supposed to be doing this group work around

39:07

and present . Was it a good or a

39:09

bad one , so to say , and

39:11

why why not ? So

39:14

we got the one

39:16

, and please do not laugh now , but we got

39:18

the Swedish bikini team in

39:20

the US about beer . So

39:23

now I'm aging myself , I guess , because that was the

39:25

case and you know we

39:27

went into this and we were like looking

39:30

at it and we had all our arguments but why

39:32

this was a terrible commercial and they don't the goods

39:34

and the baths , the ethics , more like all

39:36

of those things and went into

39:38

presenting this and had a discussion and

39:41

we were absolutely killed in

39:43

all our reasoning , in our ways of presenting

39:46

it , etc . In our argumentation

39:48

, and not because we were wrong

39:50

, because in the end everybody , like once we were done

39:52

like that , like you're actually right , this is terrible

39:54

thing and for all the reasons we had , but

39:57

the way we went to it and

39:59

the way we approached this was emotional

40:02

mm-hmm it

40:04

was not objectively , it

40:06

was not with , you know , some

40:08

kind of facts and base on what we

40:10

were doing and the why , the wrongs or

40:12

however . We went into it

40:14

emotionally and also assuming

40:17

that everybody felt , as we did , kind of motion

40:19

Lee about it , and now

40:21

in that room more or less everyone did . But

40:24

it doesn't mean that everybody in the world would do that

40:26

, or in the US or whatever market I would

40:28

be or whatever , because in that culture

40:30

context maybe that would have been okay . I don't know

40:32

. But it was such a pivot

40:35

to point in my mind , like , as

40:37

much as I believe something is fair

40:40

or unfair , the way

40:42

I go about it and the way I have to present

40:44

it has to be an objective truth

40:47

for whoever is the reader . So it's

40:49

always about your audience , it's

40:51

always about what you want to achieve . So

40:54

if I take you back to when I do at work and

40:56

if I need to achieve something , if

40:58

I'm in this business presence and I'm having

41:00

what I would say some Crazy

41:02

augmentation back at me or people

41:05

are all over the place , I'll just absorb

41:07

, I'll take it , but

41:09

I'm not going to lose focus on what is

41:11

it that I need to achieve and where am I going

41:13

? And then I take it , absorb it

41:15

some of it . I just like , okay , whatever , and I

41:18

just leave it . It doesn't bother

41:20

me because I know where I need to go and

41:23

I take , and I just need to take people to

41:25

that place . So my job

41:27

as a leader and

41:29

we have this brain

41:31

is psychology student in Sweden . Anna

41:34

Tobelius is great and one of the things is like you

41:36

always have to be the safest person in the room

41:38

and I think that's a fantastic

41:40

expression and that's my job . My

41:43

job is not just there to hand

41:45

out money or make decisions or

41:47

like all that as well , but it

41:49

is very much , especially when it is crisis

41:51

, when there is a lot of emotions

41:53

or a lot of uncertainties . It could be in that

41:55

at the end , you just pause the conversation

41:58

and you leave it and you come back and you take

42:00

it again , because sometimes you just need to get everything

42:02

to . You know all the feelings

42:05

, how to kind of go home , sleep on

42:07

it , and then we come back and you know sometimes

42:09

that's it and just make a no decision , but

42:11

for a good reason . That's my

42:13

job is to be that person in that

42:16

room and my job is to look at . Where are

42:18

we having ? Where do we need to go and

42:20

what do we need ? Who are the people I need to

42:22

get with me ? Who are the people who need to understand

42:24

this ? The whole noise of emotions

42:26

and all these other things . I don't have the luxury

42:29

to care for that

42:31

because that's not going to take us to where

42:33

we want . So I think from that point

42:35

of view I guess you know that's probably

42:38

perceived calm For me , it's

42:40

very determined and very focused

42:42

for what I want to do , and

42:45

you also need to have in mind that when

42:47

you do this , it's very easy to leave a

42:49

lot of casualties . So I

42:51

think that's . Another part for me is that when you

42:53

do it this way , you need to be extremely

42:55

respectful of listening

42:57

to people and I say you know , thank you

42:59

, I hear you at this point

43:01

I will not bring that in or

43:04

we will have to leave this here at the

43:06

side . We can revisit it , but you need

43:08

to respectful as well , because there are

43:10

emotions , so you need to kind of bring that in

43:12

and let them be there . Sometimes you just need to have a blowout

43:14

and people like you , they just need to get it

43:16

out of the system and that's OK . Like I totally

43:19

get it . Like you know , like I have

43:21

teenagers , I know that it's OK and

43:23

then you kind of , ok , fair enough , and

43:26

then you have to address the situations that

43:28

needs to be handled . So it's

43:31

not my intention not to seem

43:33

like I don't

43:35

care of people's emotions or

43:37

not acknowledging that it's all

43:39

there . But I also understand

43:42

that it doesn't help anyone anyone

43:45

if I engage in it . So

43:48

I simply want and

43:50

we really had one of our previous job

43:52

in the team we had our slogan or

43:54

like tagline whenever there were so much

43:56

things going on and I

43:58

just like we don't do drama . So

44:01

when everything's happened we just look

44:03

at each other and it's like we don't do drama

44:05

and it just went

44:07

away , because sometimes you don't realize

44:10

that you're getting into it . So

44:12

that was maybe a long and winding answer

44:15

to your question and

44:17

reasoning that I think that's , you

44:20

know , for me a very pragmatic

44:22

way as well of addressing everything that's going

44:24

on . That I

44:26

think it's been most beneficial

44:28

for me and usually works well for me .

44:33

But so many things you have shared , definitely observe

44:35

that . It almost reminds me like when

44:37

I think about it during these conversations or

44:40

instances be like

44:42

water , and that's what you kind of mentioned

44:44

water , just observe everything and

44:46

let it kind of float with

44:49

it . And you have to float out Because if you start

44:51

, as you mentioned , participating in drama , it

44:53

just always escalate like there's no

44:55

other way to deal . Escalate

44:57

drama . I don't like walk away and don't

44:59

participate in drama . So

45:01

one of the other things that I always think about panic

45:04

. When everybody else is panicking , the

45:07

best thing that we can do is not

45:09

panic and just be calm

45:11

and everybody else will sort of feel

45:15

the energy . Even I guess this relates

45:17

to me and just to explain from tennis court

45:19

how I tied it back Because even in tennis

45:21

, when there's two people on the court , even

45:23

for people who are spectators , you

45:26

typically sense in the body

45:28

language like who's up and winning . Even

45:30

from the screen you can actually see the energy

45:32

. It's one of the things that is very transferable

45:34

for people and the human eye sort of

45:37

catches . And so that's why

45:39

sometimes even people say body language

45:41

, like when you're on the court competing

45:43

, even if you don't believe in yourself

45:45

. Sometimes I have to remind myself the

45:47

other person doesn't know what I'm thinking . As

45:49

far as my body language is still intact

45:52

and I'm pretending I'm confident , it's

45:54

fine . That's what they think and that's

45:56

what I need them to think . So that's

45:58

all that . I guess how I rewired and tried

46:00

to think about the aspect that I need

46:02

to take into important meetings or

46:05

meetings that I foresee could

46:07

be a lot of conflict , and thank you again

46:09

for the inspiration on that , jeanette

46:11

.

46:12

Maybe just to I was just going to say it's a little

46:14

bit of the strength that you're showing there

46:16

is to take adversity

46:19

and just absorb it and let it go

46:21

, because every day there's

46:23

going to be a thousand things that doesn't go

46:25

the way I wanted it to go , like you just

46:27

have to deal with it . Okay , just take it on

46:29

, what does that mean ? And then you move on , absorb

46:32

it , let it go and then you move on

46:34

, because there's going to continuously be things

46:36

that you're not winning that game . It's going

46:38

to be something . You're going to hurt yourself , we're going to step

46:40

wrong and that's going to happen . So still

46:43

carrying your body is still feel strong

46:45

. That is quite important

46:47

to if you're going to endure any of these type

46:49

of jobs , like we have

46:51

.

46:52

Yeah , so tying on your leadership

46:55

principles , maybe it could be a good sequence

46:57

, because you shared one . We don't do drama

47:00

. Do you have any specific leadership

47:02

principles that you share with your

47:04

teams ? Or you have guttered

47:07

again , as you shared some of the learnings

47:09

and observations you've had throughout your career

47:11

, that you care with you and you

47:13

typically want your team to know ? This is

47:15

how I work , this is how I operate or

47:17

this is how we should think about doing

47:20

things .

47:21

There's so many different things . I

47:23

think there's something about fairness

47:26

how you treat people . Always

47:28

treat people in

47:30

the same way , like no matter whoever

47:33

they are in the company , whatever role they're doing

47:35

, their contribution is just as important

47:37

. So you're always having that fairness

47:40

around people and I guess that's maybe the quality

47:42

. We talked a little bit before , like

47:44

about the quality of people . Good people

47:47

always come back to you . Here we are

47:49

sitting , even if you tried

47:51

to move as far away as possible , and

47:54

still here you are . Good

47:56

people come back to you , but people in

47:58

general . So treat people with respect

48:00

, because they will certainly . People

48:03

are back in life . There's something around karma . I'm

48:05

not a Buddhist , etc . But there's something

48:07

around karma . So

48:09

you do treat people in a certain way and I

48:11

expect everybody around me to be

48:13

extremely respectful to

48:15

each other , even when they disagree . That's

48:18

okay , they can disagree all day long , but

48:20

they are respectful and they are going to be professional

48:22

to each other and I expect everyone to be that

48:24

in whatever circumstances . That is

48:26

, and simply also coming

48:28

back to that , we all carry our own history

48:30

and put our own different backgrounds

48:32

. So , especially here in

48:34

Canada , where we have an extreme

48:37

diversity , you need to

48:39

make sure that you really are taking

48:41

care of that and being that person

48:43

, I have some strong fundamentalism

48:45

, a little bit about discipline . When it comes to

48:48

respect , it's also about being respectful of doing

48:50

what is expected from you and doing it

48:52

in time and quality , because

48:54

others are dependent on you . So how do you ensure

48:56

that you actually help others and allow others

48:59

to be in collaboration ? Because in

49:01

the end , it's a team , so if

49:03

I'm not doing my part , then it

49:06

quickly starts falling apart the weakest

49:08

in the link in the chain . There's

49:10

a lot to be said . I think about that

49:12

and depends on context . I probably

49:14

highlight different things .

49:16

Yeah , and I think I can talk

49:18

about you and leadership forever and

49:21

we only have limited time , so

49:23

I do also want to transfer a little bit more

49:25

to technology , because that's another I

49:28

sense we're undermining . We have strong

49:30

women in tech and

49:32

sometimes we tend to marginalize

49:35

ourselves on just some portion of

49:37

how to manage our career and leadership

49:39

. And so you have such an amazing

49:41

view into Telcom . The

49:44

Telcom as an industry has been

49:46

under tremendous pressure for solar

49:48

years , including obviously because of the business

49:51

economic downturn globally

49:53

overall , and now actually there's becoming

49:55

a 6G hype . So

49:58

I'm actually curious about your view

50:00

of the industry . What is

50:02

the reality you're seeing ?

50:04

When things are changing and

50:06

when they change fast , you know we all

50:08

get very nervous Because the carousel is

50:10

moving faster and faster . Do I hold on ? Do

50:12

I get off ? How do I survive

50:14

this ? You know another ride , but

50:18

it's in the DNA of

50:20

the whole engineering culture of finding

50:22

new problems to solve in new ways . You

50:25

know that's the challenge of it . So

50:27

I think that we are in

50:29

the industry that is changing very much

50:32

, but it's been changing the whole time . We always

50:34

say that the change has never been as fast as

50:36

now and I'm like , yeah , well , we can repeat

50:38

that every month because that's kind of how it feels

50:40

. It's not for the faint of heart to work

50:42

in this industry by all means . And

50:45

I do believe that we will see a continuous

50:47

change into if knowledge will

50:49

be opening up and more . We talk about

50:52

more of a more

50:54

open type of systems

50:57

and architectures . And , yes , we

50:59

will absolutely see . There we will

51:01

see new stakeholders and we will see

51:03

all ones disappear , as we've been seeing

51:05

over and over the years . I mean , that's how

51:07

our competitive landscape is changing

51:09

and that will continue to be so . We

51:12

are seeing new technologies being introduced

51:14

. Of course , now the world is all about AI

51:16

and how is that going to change our

51:18

business and the technology and what we

51:20

do ? And of course it will . I

51:23

think it will both go faster and slower

51:25

than we expect in

51:27

certain ways . From a bigger sense

51:30

, maybe go faster , but in the smaller sense

51:32

, like how do we get it and how do we use it to

51:34

the benefit of all that in our products and

51:36

all our systems ? How do we avoid

51:38

the biases ? How do we build organizations

51:40

to actually understand what they're doing ? All

51:43

of that is going to take time . At

51:45

the same time , we will see all of this , all

51:48

these things happening and what you can actually do with

51:50

it . Some of these changes were seen and

51:52

come , but there needs to be critical

51:54

mass of competence

51:56

that knows what to do with it

51:58

before it becomes prevalent , and

52:01

we are far away from that . So

52:03

I think there will be as much as somebody

52:05

like me are dabbling with trying to figure out

52:07

what AI in general is and I can use

52:09

. I mean , it's going to be

52:11

in the new generation growing up . Like you

52:13

know , talk to my kids or teenagers

52:16

. To them it's natural , it's a

52:18

part of how they study or how

52:20

they do something or how they work . It's

52:22

just there , it's natural . So we will

52:24

see that that

52:27

will also happen , but it takes some time . So I think

52:29

that's the beauty of being

52:31

in an industry like ours that

52:33

what we do is

52:35

so fundamental of

52:38

how we as a community

52:40

not like

52:42

operators and vendors , but as a community

52:44

how we function . Communication

52:47

is a basic human need . I mean , I know that's an air-sum

52:50

tag , but for me that's really how it is . It

52:52

is no matter what we say . And then the

52:54

way we communicate has changed over

52:57

time . Now we're not using

52:59

the drums or don't have smoke signals , but

53:01

it's a long way . But there's

53:03

continuous change and that will continue changing

53:05

. We will be part of it . But you continuously need to

53:07

have smart people that are

53:09

in the fore from driving that technology , making

53:11

use of that technology , knowing how to

53:14

operate it , how to turn

53:16

it around into something that we can use

53:18

, and I know that's . You know more where you're at

53:20

than kind of that last user interface

53:22

in front of the customer . What are the devices

53:25

, what are all those things ? How

53:27

do we take it out ? But I

53:30

see that this industry is

53:32

probably going through a change , but

53:34

it's somewhat not more

53:36

nor less than all the changes we've seen so

53:39

far , but just because we're living

53:41

it right now , it feels so much bigger

53:43

and so much different . I think that we will . We have

53:45

much more to learn and see before

53:48

we know what's going to be there , but I'm really curious

53:50

what we're going to be in five years If it went

53:52

as fast or as slow

53:54

, as you know , as we're looking

53:57

at it both at the same time . So

53:59

there are some of the things that are

54:01

very much affecting us , but in the end

54:03

, this is something that is

54:05

here to stay , and then everyone might look different

54:08

, with different stakeholders , absolutely , and then

54:10

that will continue to change . That's just

54:12

the business environment . It's not . That's business

54:14

as usual . But that's the beauty

54:17

. Why it's so much fun to be in this industry

54:19

is because we know that we're making

54:21

a change and you know , and it's not

54:23

you know personally , but also you know , obviously

54:25

, the society , and then you

54:28

know how do we driving , you know good chains

54:30

and making you know the world maybe a better place

54:32

. Even so , you know it's

54:34

hard not to be fascinated . Yeah

54:37

, on that note , anything

54:39

specifically you want to call out that you're personally

54:42

optimistic about and this can be technology

54:45

or the gen AI conversions of the two

54:47

or kind of overall things that you're

54:49

looking at personally and you're playing with

54:51

I'm trying to learn a little bit more

54:54

on the AI side , simply because my key

54:56

things that I'm such a I

54:58

guess dinosaur I don't know much about it , so

55:00

you know I'm trying to understand better there

55:02

, but put them particularly

55:06

in trade-a-bud is that it's so much more

55:08

about what individuals

55:10

can learn and figure out on their

55:12

own . It's like there are more and more tools

55:15

for the individual to find

55:17

new ways of developing

55:19

and finding new areas . So we talk about open APIs

55:22

and opening up networks . You can actually

55:24

pull out some of the capabilities

55:26

and then you will do

55:28

your thing and you will

55:30

find a new use case . You will find

55:32

new areas and new ways of using

55:35

this network that as maybe as a bigger company

55:38

, as you're working on infrastructure , you

55:40

won't be able to see that or

55:42

find that . Also , the young generation is

55:44

so much more used to just going in and doing

55:46

it on their own . They're not scared that

55:48

they're going to break something . They're

55:51

just interested in what they will find . So

55:53

they will be pushing the limits and finding all

55:55

of these things on their own . So I

55:57

believe there's so many things that will not be driven

55:59

by a company as such or a company in base

56:01

, but rather it's going to come from

56:03

all the users out there

56:06

and that is going to be very

56:08

interesting to see .

56:10

So it seems like you're putting more and more power

56:12

to the user to figure out

56:14

. If you had this information , what

56:16

can you create from it , which I

56:18

see the trend . I still follow Telcom

56:20

and Ericsson , so understand the bondage

56:23

and some of the announcements there , as

56:25

well as the cradle point and what you are

56:27

guys doing actually overall in the

56:29

enterprise . So it makes sense . On

56:32

the opposite side you

56:34

have a big drop , so hopefully you sleep well

56:36

, but if there are some things that are

56:38

keeping you up at night again , hopefully

56:40

there's not too many of them . Are

56:43

there specific things that you're most

56:45

concerned about when it comes to , again , this

56:47

convergence of future technology

56:49

? There's been a lot of talks of this leaving

56:51

the Gen AI and the threat of

56:54

this technology , and that it will replace

56:57

and maybe get rid of humans at some

56:59

point on its own , when it become fully

57:01

aware of us and want to take

57:04

over the world . What's your vision ?

57:06

as I don't have that dystopian view

57:08

of life and our future really at

57:10

this point , I have to say . But

57:13

I do understand the people

57:15

would be fearful on some of these things

57:17

, simply because when you let

57:19

loose some of the tools in

57:21

the world and you don't know where it can end

57:23

, it's scary and we've seen that through

57:26

history . Alfred Nobel

57:28

he invented the dynamite

57:30

to create tunnels so we could build

57:32

better infrastructure and in the end , here we

57:34

were with bombs and it was used

57:36

in the war . So of course , you can always

57:39

find those examples of

57:41

when technology is out there to be used , it

57:43

will always be misused as well . So

57:45

, absolutely so I think that if there's

57:47

anything that keeps me up

57:49

is that how do we introduce some of

57:51

these areas responsibly and

57:54

how do we take responsibility

57:56

on how we use them and how it's done

57:58

? I do believe that we do try

58:01

. We had some examples here with some

58:03

of the bigger players trying to counteract

58:06

and work with biases in the

58:08

Google IIs and others , and

58:10

it didn't really go well . So

58:13

of course , there will be back classes people saying

58:15

, well , now you're trying to take it too far

58:17

. So I think we have

58:19

a journey of learning , of trying to

58:21

figure out how we do this in the best way , and

58:23

I think we need to allow ourselves to have that journey

58:25

. When we introduce these tools , how

58:28

do we usually do that in a fair and good way , without

58:30

the biases and all the risks there

58:32

? So I think that's something that we need

58:34

to . But it also be that this is

58:36

also the younger generation

58:39

that's so important , because they come

58:41

in and they work with it as a

58:43

tool of creating good

58:45

things . If it's in their

58:48

chemistry class or they're discussing biology

58:50

or if it is something around history

58:53

and trying to find the context , and they're working on

58:55

it and they critically examining

58:57

what they're finding through these

59:00

tools . For

59:02

them it's different . They use it as

59:04

something , as it's not just something you add on top

59:06

of and then it becomes a threat that you don't have

59:08

control over . It's something that is in their

59:10

control and how they use it

59:12

. So , as much as it keeps me

59:14

a little bit up at night that I'm concerned

59:16

that some of these tools , we

59:18

don't really know what we're doing with it , I

59:21

also believe that there are there's

59:23

this what I've been told by the critical mass of competence

59:25

coming as a genre that know

59:28

, and they really know how to deal with it well

59:30

and they are comfortable with it . But

59:32

absolutely , I think that there is word

59:34

of caution , but we have gone through the

59:37

industry one at a , two , three

59:40

shifts from machine

59:42

to a person and we're going another shift

59:44

now . I'm sure that we as

59:46

humanity will survive this as well

59:48

and I'm sure we will find good ways

59:50

of doing it . And I actually do believe

59:52

it's absolutely needed

59:55

and we

59:57

absolutely need this to come in and help us , because

59:59

we have a population

1:00:01

that is growing older and older . We will

1:00:03

absolutely need , if it's robots

1:00:05

or any help we can get in elderly

1:00:07

care . How do we take care of all the

1:00:10

people that will be older and they

1:00:12

need to be taken care of ? There are just so

1:00:14

many areas where I think that it's absolutely necessary

1:00:16

to get this into our . You know , inter-assistance

1:00:18

, the ways of working and everything , and we won't

1:00:21

have enough people to do all these things . So

1:00:23

I think there's absolutely going to be a shift , or

1:00:25

maybe what kind of competences

1:00:27

, jobs , all of that that

1:00:30

will be happening , but

1:00:32

that's okay . That's how we do shifts

1:00:34

and that's progression . Of

1:00:36

course , it's going to be painful points , but

1:00:39

it's still progression and I often

1:00:41

think about it , like when I talk to my kids about jobs

1:00:43

that they want to have . When

1:00:46

I grow up , like you know , you could be a lawyer

1:00:48

, you could do business , you could do doctor

1:00:50

, and like it was very clear , like it was

1:00:52

. You know , this was the many jobs you could

1:00:54

get more , like more or less . And then you chose

1:00:56

. And when I talk to my kids

1:00:59

today about what are they going to be and what are the

1:01:01

educations , like I mean

1:01:03

, it's just like you know , it's

1:01:05

a buffet of all

1:01:07

these things and all these things they want to do

1:01:09

. As you know , I have a daughter that's very

1:01:11

artistic . If you were an artist

1:01:14

, like when you were a kid , when I was young , like

1:01:17

you were just going to be a poor artist

1:01:20

at the best , like that was not a pursuit

1:01:23

you could have . And today , of course

1:01:25

, you have animation , you have the movies , you

1:01:27

have all these amazing things

1:01:30

. So it's like how can

1:01:32

I even guess what she's going to be

1:01:34

? And it's the same I see now when we see all these

1:01:36

other shifts with all these new took models coming

1:01:38

. It's going to open up so many new areas

1:01:41

of works and roles and competent

1:01:43

, all these things that people can

1:01:45

do . It's going to be painful for

1:01:47

us Some of us are a bit older , that

1:01:49

you know , have lived through a life with certain

1:01:51

competences , and it's a shift

1:01:54

, but in the end

1:01:56

I think it's going to work out . There's always , you

1:01:58

know , a little bit of pain in those shifts , but

1:02:00

you know it's going to open up so many new things

1:02:02

that I can't even I wouldn't even

1:02:04

try to guess today what that means . I

1:02:08

think that's why I say I sleep pretty well

1:02:11

at night . Yeah , I think that's good

1:02:13

.

1:02:14

We need sleep , especially as

1:02:17

we grow older . Not again that you would age I

1:02:19

age for sure . So I do need

1:02:21

to sleep more than , let's say , even in my 20s

1:02:23

, or I recognize that I

1:02:25

get more around .

1:02:27

Can I push back to you ? Sorry I'm interrupting

1:02:29

you and but I know that you're going to soon

1:02:31

tell me that we can't talk more . So

1:02:34

you are a young

1:02:37

, very strong female

1:02:40

leader in everything you do , even

1:02:42

if it's direct or indirect , and you are

1:02:44

a fantastic role model

1:02:46

. I think for people around you that you

1:02:48

are also very daring on taking on

1:02:50

your roles and you jump on things and

1:02:53

you learn new . So all the good things you

1:02:55

have said to me , I think , during

1:02:57

this conversation , absolutely want to just give

1:02:59

that back to you , that it is a joy

1:03:02

to see you and see how you have flourished

1:03:04

and learned and dare to new things

1:03:06

and nonetheless doing

1:03:08

this , what you're doing right now , and

1:03:11

going on an adventure and just starting this

1:03:13

up . And now it's the month

1:03:15

of International Women's Day , it's

1:03:17

our month , so I'm going to claim us a little

1:03:19

bit of a space here , for you and me . How

1:03:22

do you see your future

1:03:24

and ours , and what can we

1:03:26

do to make it better for you and yours alike

1:03:29

?

1:03:32

Wow , that's a good question . I

1:03:37

actually really believe that

1:03:39

the biggest problems

1:03:42

are always in our own minds

1:03:44

, like as women

1:03:46

, we are our worst

1:03:48

enemies often and I speak

1:03:50

from experience from myself

1:03:53

and actually even the experience

1:03:55

and you've personally

1:03:57

know many of the experiences that I've had

1:04:00

, and it goes all the way

1:04:02

to my upbringing and childhood

1:04:04

I think the problem that we

1:04:07

have is actually we put the problem

1:04:09

in the context of kind of

1:04:12

what we call it , sex or gender , and

1:04:14

so actually , even looking back at

1:04:16

my career , I've

1:04:19

created this sort

1:04:21

of view of it as versus them , sometimes

1:04:24

like it's women versus men . But

1:04:26

then , like , looking back , I was absolutely

1:04:29

not correct , because I've had some

1:04:31

amazing men leaders and I've

1:04:33

had some not so great leaders , but it's also

1:04:35

because of , I would say , statistics

1:04:38

. So if you apply just a few

1:04:40

statistics , if you're on average

1:04:42

in an industry , that is , you

1:04:44

work mostly with men , you

1:04:47

unfortunately going to probably come up to

1:04:49

worse experiences that really

1:04:51

too many , just because you meet so many more , and

1:04:53

so this is even something that we all have

1:04:56

in our own minds , and

1:04:58

so one of the things is really just things I've been

1:05:00

personally practicing , and

1:05:03

I actually want to even suggest

1:05:05

listeners to go back to episode with Eve

1:05:07

I think she said it even better than I would say

1:05:10

but being confident in

1:05:12

what we can do . Sometimes it's even just

1:05:14

being present . The Amy Cuddy Ted

1:05:16

Talk if anybody listened to it is

1:05:19

still one of my favorite Ted Talks . You

1:05:21

actually said it in this podcast not putting

1:05:23

our own boundaries in

1:05:25

front of us and what we can and cannot achieve

1:05:28

, because some of the best results were literally

1:05:30

things that I could never think that I can do , including

1:05:32

actually this podcast . I was terrified when I

1:05:34

started , like the first episode took me five

1:05:36

months to lunch and now I'm like , oh my God , I'm

1:05:38

so excited . So anything is a skill

1:05:41

and you sort of practice . So try

1:05:43

the things that scare you , things

1:05:46

that you have been practicing actually in your career

1:05:49

, jeanette , and practice being

1:05:51

your advocate . And

1:05:54

the way to do that is really be authentic

1:05:56

and finding things that are true to you

1:05:58

and if you do

1:06:00

it in the right way , I think a lot of

1:06:03

people will realize that they're

1:06:05

authentic and they're true to you and they're coming

1:06:07

from the right place and hopefully will

1:06:09

then help perhaps even join

1:06:11

the movement or be your cheerleaders

1:06:14

behind the closed door , when

1:06:16

nobody's there and you're not in the

1:06:18

room . I think that's mostly what

1:06:20

we women can do . And

1:06:22

I actually want to look at it from the other side

1:06:24

because , looking at my own journey , that

1:06:27

generation journey coming from a super small

1:06:29

village , just the progress we women

1:06:31

have made is impressive . My

1:06:33

grandma run the whole family

1:06:36

. She was like a master home educator . She

1:06:38

raised like seven , eight kids , made sure

1:06:40

everybody's fed . Always people

1:06:42

came there gathered . She had scheduled

1:06:44

for everybody and remembered who has

1:06:46

what . My mom is

1:06:48

a small business owner , one of the most

1:06:50

successful women in the area we live in

1:06:52

. I run business globally

1:06:55

and my sister is financing

1:06:57

business in some of the largest

1:06:59

companies that we can ever dream of . So

1:07:02

if you just look at like the trajectory of

1:07:04

the four generations of , like my

1:07:06

grandma , from communist era to all the

1:07:08

way to my sister , on all

1:07:10

that she will achieve , it's fantastic

1:07:12

and so maybe it's

1:07:14

just more naive . But I think again it's

1:07:17

more of us throwing our own barriers

1:07:19

in front of ourselves . But

1:07:22

let me stop there , jeanette

1:07:24

. What do we want to add or change

1:07:26

?

1:07:27

I'm listening to you under . There's so much

1:07:29

to be said , so this should be a separate part of someone's

1:07:31

own , I think . But there is

1:07:33

something I want

1:07:35

to address that maybe that

1:07:38

I do believe that some is

1:07:40

overused and we all often talk about

1:07:42

the imposter syndrome . So , like I said

1:07:44

, you come into this room and you have this

1:07:46

feeling , oh , I'm probably not good enough , I

1:07:49

don't feel this and we will get this , and

1:07:52

I really don't believe in it . I

1:07:55

don't believe there is an imposter syndrome

1:07:58

in that sense , because I have

1:08:00

never

1:08:02

met a person

1:08:04

and mostly women

1:08:08

, let's talk about it and I would say that

1:08:10

any underrepresented group

1:08:12

that comes into a room

1:08:14

with all these other that is not good

1:08:17

enough , not ready enough , is

1:08:19

not brave enough . They would be

1:08:21

in that room otherwise , and because I know it's

1:08:24

so much harder for that person to be in that room

1:08:26

than for probably for everyone else . So for

1:08:28

me there's that imposition . That is

1:08:30

something that we have been told that

1:08:33

we are feeling because we're

1:08:35

not fitting in , but then

1:08:37

I'm like , no , it's not , it has nothing

1:08:39

to do with that person . It

1:08:41

is then a systemic problem . So

1:08:44

then it's a problem of inclusion

1:08:46

. So , as much as we talk about diversity

1:08:48

and that we need to love everybody in

1:08:51

there . We need to include

1:08:53

them . Everybody needs to be feel included

1:08:55

at their own merits , at this , as

1:08:57

who they are , the fully authentic

1:09:00

Clara who's coming in with all

1:09:02

, all the things she is , and

1:09:05

when we do that , there's really no imposter

1:09:07

syndrome why would there be one ? But

1:09:09

it's something that we continuously are

1:09:12

taught that that's our

1:09:14

problem . So we need to be a

1:09:16

little bit more of this or that . We

1:09:18

need to lean in a little bit more . We need to

1:09:20

speak up a little bit more . We need to . I

1:09:23

don't know whatever it is and I'm like , no

1:09:25

, no , I don't think

1:09:27

so . Well , I mean , each and everyone

1:09:29

has things to work on . It might be that you need

1:09:31

to speak up a bit more , you need to sound like

1:09:33

everyone else has something to work on , but

1:09:36

don't don't be

1:09:38

made to believe it's because you don't

1:09:41

fit in or you shouldn't be there

1:09:43

, or you are not really there

1:09:45

for whatever reason . Like that needs

1:09:47

to go away , like anyone who

1:09:49

feel that they're in an unrepresentative

1:09:51

group . Here is gender . You are part

1:09:53

of it and we need to foster

1:09:56

that inclusivity

1:09:59

into it . We can't just say we're going to have diversity

1:10:01

and then we don't include people and allow them

1:10:03

to be themselves without them having to prove it , and then we have to

1:10:05

prove them having to prove themselves in a certain context

1:10:08

, in a certain environment , then we haven't

1:10:10

really made no progress . So I

1:10:12

think it's like when you come into that room next

1:10:14

time and if somebody said , oh , I'm feeling very

1:10:16

much impulsive syndrome , which I have used

1:10:18

myself just to work clear , I'm

1:10:21

going to be like why , why

1:10:23

would I , why does that make

1:10:25

anyone feel like that ? That's

1:10:27

one of the things I'm going to try to fight

1:10:29

is that I have women that use

1:10:31

us , that they feel that , and I'm going to say why

1:10:34

. And if that's the case , and then if I

1:10:36

can affect the environment , then

1:10:38

it's for me , then it's my problem

1:10:40

. It's not this whoever it is joining

1:10:42

the team is problem .

1:10:45

That can be a whole other episode for imposter

1:10:47

syndrome , because I have very strong feelings

1:10:49

about it . I didn't know what imposter syndrome

1:10:52

is or was until more

1:10:54

of like the US academia pushed

1:10:56

it into my head and I

1:10:58

feel like it's being pushed on us women in

1:11:01

all of the training , leadership

1:11:03

meetings , so much more and to a point

1:11:05

where everybody can probably hear I'm frustrated

1:11:07

about it Because I think everyone

1:11:10

in their life at some point men

1:11:12

and women included have felt

1:11:14

, have felt , incapable and

1:11:16

lacking confidence , and the

1:11:18

reason is it doesn't even why I don't

1:11:20

know if , why even like matters . So

1:11:23

what Like you feel like you're

1:11:25

scared . Just do it anyways . I

1:11:27

think that's how , again , you learn and step

1:11:30

into the next step . So going

1:11:32

back practicing might not be emotional

1:11:34

Well , I am . So there's still some things

1:11:36

that really make me emotional . Imposter syndrome

1:11:39

is one of the things that I'm still trying to

1:11:41

find way how to actually be on

1:11:43

the reverse side and don't push

1:11:45

it on women and

1:11:48

so I love it Totally with

1:11:50

you and actually , on

1:11:52

that , one of the things in

1:11:54

comments that , again , one of my helpers

1:11:56

shared here is about how

1:11:59

great you are with inviting

1:12:01

people to speak up and

1:12:03

this inclusiveness

1:12:05

again that opening the

1:12:07

room where people are feeling like

1:12:10

they're being accepted

1:12:13

and appreciated . Are there

1:12:15

any tips you want to share that leaders

1:12:17

can take on ? A practice

1:12:19

that you're aware that you use , that

1:12:21

have worked the best for you ?

1:12:24

Be present when you

1:12:26

meet somebody . I mean I don't fill

1:12:28

in my phone . If I do , I mean then

1:12:30

I'm lost . Like , be present

1:12:32

when you have a person and you have them in front

1:12:35

of you and you have their time , make

1:12:38

the most of it , not just listening

1:12:40

, but hear them and really understand

1:12:42

what you're doing . I also come from

1:12:44

a place of belief

1:12:46

rather than disbelief . So be

1:12:48

kind , be generous

1:12:51

to the person that you meet them . Just

1:12:53

assume the best and allow

1:12:55

them maybe to grow from there , because

1:12:58

if you come from that place and people feel like

1:13:00

you're there to that you

1:13:02

trust them and that you're there to help them and that

1:13:04

you're actually interested in what they're saying , you

1:13:07

will get the best out of anyone . So

1:13:09

for me it's really . But being

1:13:11

just present and allowing that

1:13:13

person you have in front of you to be all

1:13:16

that you are now focusing on listening

1:13:18

on , and they are the ones that are most important

1:13:20

for you at this time . That

1:13:23

makes it so much easier , and

1:13:25

that's really true , because

1:13:27

when you are interacting with somebody , that's

1:13:30

how it should be . If you

1:13:32

are somewhere else , then politely say

1:13:34

sorry , I need to do something different . That's

1:13:37

okay . I mean that

1:13:40

happens . But when you are with somebody , treat them with

1:13:42

all respect you can and just make

1:13:44

them be the most important person because

1:13:46

they are in that conversation you have .

1:13:49

I agree On that note . We

1:13:52

have about a minute before you have to leave

1:13:54

Anything else . Jeanette , do you want to leave

1:13:56

listeners with ? I think that alone should

1:13:58

be a fantastic advice for anybody

1:14:00

to practice in 2024

1:14:03

and skill that I feel like no

1:14:05

matter how good somebody can get

1:14:07

, or even me personally , there's always a way to

1:14:09

improve . But anything else

1:14:11

you want to leave listeners with

1:14:13

and maybe what's the best way

1:14:15

to follow you ? I know you have

1:14:17

a LinkedIn profile , so I added your permission to

1:14:20

the episode notes , if that's okay , but

1:14:22

anything else you want to share ?

1:14:24

Yes , linkedin is the best way . I'll just take

1:14:26

that one quickly , then you can

1:14:28

always reach out . Linkedin is probably the best way . I

1:14:32

would just say that I think we live in times

1:14:34

that are very divisive . We

1:14:38

focus a lot on what is different

1:14:41

, what is dividing us , what is keeping

1:14:43

us apart , rather than

1:14:45

asking what is pulling us together

1:14:48

, what makes us one , what makes us

1:14:50

human . Solidarity is almost

1:14:52

a word that is hard to use

1:14:54

without feeling a little bit silly

1:14:56

, but I think those things are

1:14:59

, more than ever , important

1:15:01

right now , with the times we're seeing

1:15:03

. We have a lot of election going

1:15:05

around the world . We will see a lot of changes

1:15:07

and a lot of political

1:15:09

instability . I think for us as

1:15:12

people , really caring

1:15:15

for each other and being kind and

1:15:18

making sure that we try to look at what is bringing

1:15:20

us together and offering opportunities

1:15:22

to bring us together , I think will

1:15:24

be more important this year than it

1:15:26

ever has , and

1:15:29

I think that anything that you can do as a person

1:15:31

, if that's individually or for your

1:15:33

team or in a bigger way in your community

1:15:35

, I think that's really , if

1:15:38

anything , that's what I hope that people will

1:15:40

take the time to do this year .

1:15:42

Fantastic . Well , thank you so much

1:15:45

for your time , jeanette , and just

1:15:47

being in touch and allowing

1:15:49

me to check in with you . You've guided me on

1:15:51

my career journey many times and always

1:15:54

been there to provide your perspective

1:15:56

, which I truly value and appreciate

1:15:58

, and thank you again for the

1:16:00

conversation .

1:16:01

Thank you , Clara , and it is absolutely a

1:16:03

privilege and joy to be around you

1:16:05

and follow your journey as well . So thank

1:16:07

you for having me I love it and

1:16:09

for all of you . Keep on listening

1:16:11

to Clara , I'm sure you will learn a lot more . Take

1:16:14

care .

1:16:42

Thank you

1:16:44

.