0:00

Alright, so Matt, I've talked about this before and you

0:02

know I'm a space nerd, right? Right.

0:04

Right. I realized I

0:07

do not like black holes though. Really?

0:10

Yeah, they really suck. Man.

0:17

It's good. Good

0:27

evening everybody and welcome to the

0:29

graveyard. Thank you for joining us

0:31

tonight. My name is Adam.

0:33

And my name's Matt. Now pull

0:36

up a tombstone or settle into

0:38

your casket and get comfortable

0:41

because this is graveyard

0:44

tales. Oh,

0:50

right. Everybody here we are again, Matt.

0:52

How are you doing tonight, brother? I'm

0:55

doing okay, but I'm realizing that I

0:58

can no longer see the screen without

1:01

wearing my glasses. Oh yeah. I've

1:04

gone for years and I thought, oh, it's fine.

1:07

And now the last couple of weeks I've been

1:09

like, I can't see anything. We,

1:12

we have finally fully traded places now.

1:14

Cause when we started the show, I

1:17

was wearing my glasses all the time.

1:20

Yeah. And then I got contacts and then we

1:22

were both without glasses and now you got glasses

1:24

and I don't. So we've switched places. It's

1:27

absolutely ridiculous. I

1:29

mean, I mean when

1:31

I turned 40, I realized

1:34

that my arms were too short. Okay.

1:37

You couldn't get it far enough away. That's

1:40

right. You know, now it's,

1:42

it's like, I've had to up the,

1:46

the, the, well, not the prescription. I mean, these

1:48

are, I still wear contacts, you know,

1:50

these are reading glasses for crying

1:52

out loud. Yeah. I

1:55

can't see anything without

1:57

these. I mean, if it's, if it's

1:59

with in five feet. I'm

2:02

like, what? What is that? That's funny. Well,

2:07

it put batteries in nothing. Yeah. Well,

2:10

see, that's, that's the cool thing about how long

2:12

this show has been going and how long we

2:14

want it to keep going is you

2:17

as a listener, we'll get to

2:19

see our age progression live

2:22

as it happens. I

2:24

tell you what would be funny is if

2:27

we had been doing video. Um,

2:30

back in the beginning, how, how

2:32

less gray my beard would have been.

2:34

Yeah. Yeah. Cause Amanda

2:37

will pull up old pictures and I'm

2:39

like, man, look,

2:42

my, my beard wasn't as great.

2:45

We've still got some old pictures on our website.

2:47

I need to, I need to update all those

2:49

pictures, but yeah, it's funny. It's

2:51

like, you know, I need

2:54

to just from in, don't do

2:56

that. Just, just rock it, man. So

3:00

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3:58

y'all real. I'm telling y'all. And it's

4:00

not for no other reason y'all

4:03

need to y'all really need to check it

4:05

out Yeah, I mean it it's it's Adam

4:07

and I like you have not heard us

4:09

before right? Yeah, if

4:11

you if you've been a long-time graveyard tails

4:13

listener and you're like, why don't they cuss?

4:15

Why don't they talk about this kind of stuff? We

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do in side quests you get

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to see the unfiltered unedited

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Adam and Matt, but we also have

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one dollar and we Appreciate our one

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dollar just as much as our ten

5:04

Absolutely. So Matt, that's

5:07

all I've got for the housekeeping. So why don't you

5:09

tell us? What are we talking about tonight, brother? All

5:12

right. So this is taken

5:16

from The website

5:18

of the place we're talking about tonight.

5:20

Okay, this is from like the tourism

5:22

thing. Okay, it says escape

5:25

to the serene beauty of

5:28

northern New Mexico and Experience

5:30

a unique stay in our TP nestled

5:32

in the heart of the mountains on

5:35

the jicarilla Apache

5:37

reservation near Archuleta Mesa

5:40

aka the Dolce

5:42

UFO underground base RTP

5:45

offers one-of-a-kind Getaway where you can

5:48

connect with nature and immerse yourself

5:50

in the rich culture of this

5:52

sacred land Wait

5:57

Did it just say the Dolce?

6:00

UFO underground base. Mm-hmm.

6:03

Mm-hmm. I

6:06

didn't realize there was an underground UFO

6:08

base. Well,

6:13

that's still questionable, Matt. So

6:19

yeah, so Adam pitches

6:21

this topic, and

6:24

we kind of

6:26

go back and forth. But

6:29

I thought that this is, it's

6:32

really too crazy not to

6:34

discuss. Mm-hmm. But

6:36

in Dolce, New Mexico, there

6:39

are a lot of folks

6:41

that believe that there is

6:43

an underground UFO

6:46

base. Yep. In

6:48

the Archuleta Mesa. I mean. Yeah.

6:53

You can't get, can't get

6:55

much further out than that. But yeah.

6:57

I love it, though. What

6:59

Adam and I are going to talk about tonight is

7:02

how that idea came to be and the

7:05

evidence that people have collected that

7:07

say this might not be as

7:10

off base as you think. Mm-hmm.

7:13

And that's the fun part about it is

7:16

when you first hear it, there

7:18

is no way. There's

7:20

no way. Right. This is

7:22

insane. Y'all have lost your mind. But

7:25

the more you look into it, the more you're like,

7:27

you know what? It's

7:31

actually, it's sounding

7:33

plausible. The more I

7:35

read about this, the more plausible it sounds.

7:39

So as we always say, go check our sources

7:41

down at the bottom of the show notes. You

7:43

can find where we found all this information because

7:46

obviously Matt and I have not traveled to Dulce,

7:48

New Mexico at all. We

7:50

would like to and go to the

7:53

Hickory Apache Nation and check this out

7:56

for ourselves, but we haven't. So

7:58

for those who have. have put

8:00

the information out there. We have linked

8:03

the sources there in the bottom of our show

8:05

notes. So you can go check them out, continue

8:08

the research and you know, double

8:10

check what we say, make sure, make

8:13

sure we have read

8:15

it correctly. But now

8:18

Dulcena, Mexico has a population of about

8:20

2,743 residents as of the 2010 census.

8:28

So that's not many. That is

8:30

a small, small area. It's

8:34

so small, Matt, it doesn't even have a traffic

8:36

light. If that

8:39

tells you anything. Yeah. I mean, it's

8:41

out in the desert. It's

8:44

a tiny little town out there in the desert and

8:47

it's in Rio Arriba County. Now

8:49

it sits directly on the New Mexico,

8:51

Colorado border near Chama. And

8:54

it's the largest community of

8:56

tribal headquarters of the Hickory

8:58

Apache reservation. So

9:00

let's look at the Hickory Apache

9:02

nation. And this is quoted

9:04

from New Mexico's native culture information. It

9:07

says Apache is the collective name used

9:10

for several related groups of native Americans.

9:14

These indigenous peoples of North America speak

9:16

a Southern Athabascan or

9:18

Apache language and

9:20

are related linguistically to the

9:22

Athabascan speakers of Alaska and

9:24

Western Canada. The Hickory

9:26

Apache nation is located in the scenic

9:29

mountains and rugged maces of the Northern

9:31

New Mexico of Northern New Mexico,

9:33

near the Colorado border, there are

9:36

approximately 2,755 tribal members, most of

9:38

whom live in the

9:41

town of Dulce, a nomadic in

9:44

nature until just before European contact.

9:46

The Hickory a tribe established trade

9:49

with Taos and the

9:51

PCORUS Pueblos. And

9:53

they wandered and traded as far east

9:55

as Kansas until they settled deep in

9:58

the Northern Sangre de Cristo. mountains

10:00

in the mid 1720s. This next

10:04

bit is quoted from the

10:06

Tent Tribes Partnership. It

10:08

says, the Hicariya Apache Nation Indian

10:10

Reservation spans more than 879,917 acres

10:16

in north central New Mexico. The reservation

10:18

is located in the upper reaches of the

10:20

San Juan River Basin

10:23

and the Rio Chama in

10:25

north central New Mexico, straddling

10:28

the continental divide. The

10:30

reservation's northern boundary borders

10:32

the Colorado line and the western boundary

10:34

of the reservation is about 15 miles

10:37

east of Navajo Reservoir.

10:40

Dulce, New Mexico is the reservation's sole

10:42

community and is home to the Hicariya

10:44

Apache Nation's tribal headquarters. In 2010, the

10:48

nation had a population of 3,254. So the geography

10:50

of the Hicariya Reservation ranges from high

10:57

desert at the south boundary at

10:59

about 6,500 feet in elevation

11:01

to mountainous areas reaching over 11,400

11:05

feet in elevation. And

11:09

the landscape varies from rugged

11:11

pine cover maces and pinion

11:13

juniper woodlands to lowland sagebrush

11:15

flats. Coniferous forest dominates

11:18

the higher elevations in the

11:20

mountainous areas. Yeah,

11:23

so if you were gonna build a

11:25

secret base, out

11:27

here is a good spot. Yeah,

11:29

no kidding, no kidding. It's away

11:32

from big towns, it's out

11:34

in the middle of almost nowhere and

11:38

it's a great place to have

11:41

a secretive base.

11:44

Now Dulce was originally founded by

11:46

the Gomez family and

11:49

their intention was to make it a

11:51

ranching operation. Now San

11:54

Eugenio Gomez originally founded it in 1877. Now

11:56

the original name

12:01

for it was agua

12:03

dolce, which means sweet water. So

12:06

they called it that because there

12:08

was an abundance of natural springs

12:11

in the area and it was

12:13

great for drinking water for both

12:15

humans and animals, you know horses

12:17

cows, whatever they had in the

12:19

area. And over the years we

12:22

have Anglicanized

12:24

the name, so it is

12:26

dolce, but most people you

12:29

talk to around there say dolce. So

12:31

that's the reason I'm saying dolce. Yes the

12:33

word is dolce, but I

12:36

mean it

12:38

hurts me to say dolce when it's

12:40

dolce de leche, agua dolce,

12:42

you know but you know. Tomato,

12:47

potato. Exactly. Patato,

12:50

cucumber. Now

12:52

the Hickory Apache reservation was established in

12:54

1887 when the Apache people

12:58

were forced into a reservation. Now

13:00

the Gomez ranch is currently

13:02

kept under manual Gomez ownership,

13:05

though it's surrounded by reservation

13:08

land. So his original

13:11

homestead there is still

13:13

there and it's still being

13:15

ran by Gomez family but

13:17

the reservation has kind of grown up around

13:20

it. So he lives within

13:23

reservation land now. Well

13:26

the Denver and Rio Grande

13:28

Railroad built its San Juan

13:30

extension through dolce in 1882

13:33

and as we've seen before when you

13:35

get a railroad through your town you've

13:37

officially become a town. Right. When

13:40

people can come there, then

13:43

you're a town. Yep you've officially

13:45

made it. But the other things

13:48

that make you a legit town are

13:50

a post office and one

13:52

of those was established here in 1892 and then in 1914

13:54

they built a sawmill here and a logging

14:00

railroad that ran Southwest as far as

14:02

Mills Lake, but unfortunately

14:04

both of those closed in So

14:09

didn't last too long about 16

14:11

years and they closed

14:14

the the logging company Now

14:17

Dulce is only about 12.9

14:19

square miles so

14:23

It's not a big population

14:25

and not a real big Town,

14:28

you know, it's I Mean,

14:31

I don't know how how else we can say this is

14:33

a tiny place. Oh, yeah. It's

14:35

tiny Now you

14:37

would think that being in New Mexico

14:40

that Dulce would be hot and dry but

14:44

Because of its high altitude. It

14:46

actually has mild short summers so

14:49

it's You

14:51

know, that's it's a thing people Mistake

14:54

about Arizona and New Mexico a lot

14:57

They think oh, it's all desert. There's

15:00

a lot of desert But

15:02

there's also a lot of arid

15:04

cold regions because

15:07

there are mountainous areas there

15:09

and Yeah,

15:11

you can have a cold desert as much as you can

15:13

have a hot desert but

15:16

you get into parts like The

15:21

The Dulce area and stuff like that

15:23

and it actually becomes pretty

15:25

chilly You got a short summer and

15:28

then it cold in the winter and

15:30

pine trees and stuff. So it's

15:34

It's confusing for people that don't know the area

15:36

real well when you watch

15:38

some of the videos from the locals

15:41

That they're wearing like coats and hats Yeah,

15:45

yeah, you know you can tell you know, they're they're

15:48

out in the desert but it's it's

15:51

it's cold. Yeah. Yep now

15:54

I mentioned that it was in Rio Arriba

15:56

County and this comes from

15:58

the history of Rio Areba

16:01

by Raymond Ortiz and Lauren

16:04

Reichelt. It says the name

16:06

Rio Areba means Upper River. The

16:09

county is so named because the Rio

16:11

Grande, the lifeline of the

16:14

state, runs through it. Now

16:16

under Mexican rule established in 1821, New Mexico

16:19

was divided into two territories. Rio

16:22

Abajo, so the Lower River,

16:24

comprised everything south of Santa Fe, most

16:27

of New Mexico's landed

16:30

gentry traced their ancestry directly

16:32

from Spain and lived in

16:34

Rio Abajo. Now Rio

16:36

Areba, the forgotten Upper

16:38

River, evolved into a creative,

16:40

diverse, isolated, shunned, independent, self-reliant,

16:43

and quirky cultural mix, they

16:45

said. So

16:50

you can kind of see that if you're separated

16:52

from the rest of it, you kind of become

16:54

your own thing. It's like

16:56

Darwin and his evolution of

16:59

species. It happens with people too. You

17:01

get separated and put in

17:03

your own little area, you all become

17:06

your own unique kind of

17:08

ecosystem there. Another

17:11

good place to put a UFO

17:13

base. Now

17:16

in the 2020 census, it said

17:18

that Rio Areba County had a population

17:21

of 40,363. The

17:24

northern border of the

17:26

county, like I said, is on

17:29

the Colorado State Line, and the

17:31

county was one of nine originally

17:33

created for the territory of New

17:35

Mexico in 1852. Originally

17:37

extending west to the California

17:39

line, it included the site

17:42

of present-day Las Vegas, Nevada.

17:45

So interesting there. The

17:48

Battle of Embudo Pass

17:50

took place in the southern part of

17:52

the county during the Mexican-American War in

17:54

January of 1847, and

17:57

that was part of the Taos Revolt. Which

18:00

was a popular interaction against the

18:02

american army's occupation of northern new

18:05

mexico The county has a

18:07

total area of five thousand eight hundred and

18:09

ninety six square miles And it's

18:11

the fifth largest county in new mexico by

18:13

area Taos county sits

18:16

just east of rio arriba county

18:19

so We we've discussed

18:21

house before the taos

18:23

hum And all

18:25

that so it's an interesting area up there

18:27

and if you start putting these two together

18:30

Taos is right there dolce

18:32

apparently has a alien

18:34

base hmm I

18:38

mean when when you start talking about

18:40

ufos You you

18:43

can't Skip

18:45

new mexico right. I

18:48

mean so much has happened

18:50

in new mexico. Mm-hmm

18:52

that I mean If

18:56

you're a ufo investigator you you

18:58

have you have got to go to new mexico.

19:00

That's right Yeah, it's kind of where it all

19:03

begins Yeah yeah

19:06

Now even though dolce is a

19:08

small town and has less than three

19:10

thousand people living there its population

19:12

grows every year When you

19:15

follow just host the quote

19:17

dolce base ufo conference They

19:22

didn't get too creative on the name matt Maybe

19:25

they don't have to that's about Now

19:30

it's important to note that the

19:32

existence of the new mexico alien

19:34

base itself remains entirely unproven Even

19:37

as the legends surrounding it are well

19:39

documented well, apparently Rumors

19:43

about the existence of the dolce military base

19:45

go all the way back to the 1930s

19:48

but It really began to pick

19:50

up steam in the 1970s and there

19:53

was this New mexico state

19:55

trooper and he went public with

19:57

his account Of his

19:59

experience. So. The

20:01

legend say. That

20:04

there is a secret seven story

20:06

military base that sit under. Dos.

20:09

A New Mexico. Specifically.

20:12

Underneath the are to lead a mesa Like Matt

20:14

was saying. Now we

20:16

know. That black sites

20:18

do exist. Which.

20:21

Our military sites that. They're

20:23

not own maps. they're not talked about. Whatever.

20:26

But they are. They're so black

20:28

sites do exist. And

20:31

there we know, even some that were

20:33

built in the mountains here in the

20:35

Us. I mean you look at the

20:37

oh. I forgot the name of

20:39

it, but. There. Were the President and

20:41

the cabinet members are supposed to sneak

20:44

away. During. The Cold War. Oh

20:46

yeah, And and

20:49

Norad is built into a mountain?

20:51

True? Yep. You know, so

20:53

it's not like the idea of

20:55

putting him a military installation inside

20:58

a mountain is unheard of. right?

21:00

Needs been done already. But

21:03

the weird part about the Dulce A

21:05

maze is that it's a joint run

21:07

base. Partially.

21:10

Run. By the Us military and

21:12

partially. By. A race

21:14

of alien beings. Yeah.

21:19

No. I'm

21:22

not heard of that before until I don't

21:24

say. That's. A new one. In

21:27

a when your when, your coworkers are. You.

21:30

Know they're from out of town. Yeah.

21:35

They show a from around here. Now

21:39

image in the State Trooper Well

21:41

his name was gave Valdez and

21:43

he apparently documented unexplained cattle mutilations

21:46

in the area in a radio

21:48

interview. And. He said quote

21:50

the evidence. Was. The.

21:53

evidence that was less there

21:55

you know predators don't leave

21:57

gas mask glow sticks radar

21:59

task And they don't leave stuff like

22:01

that right yeah so

22:03

he's right i mean they don't.

22:07

But apparently.

22:11

You know he was investigating these. Can

22:15

you relations and found all this

22:17

stuff laying around the thing so.

22:22

The gas mask in the glow

22:24

sticks he said that pointed toward.

22:27

Military involvement. Well

22:30

val does made more wild

22:32

claims in other interviews including

22:34

sightings of black silent quote

22:37

sophisticated spacecraft. And

22:39

the discovery of a fetus inside

22:41

a dead cow. And you're like

22:43

oh so it was pregnant it

22:46

was not a cat fetus that

22:48

he found inside this dead cow. He

22:51

said quote it looked like a human

22:53

a monkey and a frog val does

22:55

told the history channels UFO hunters. Quote

22:58

it didn't have any bones in its head

23:01

it was it was all full of

23:03

water. Val does thought

23:05

what else the cows were incubating

23:07

alien babies. See

23:10

that's really weird. Yeah

23:13

yeah and the the

23:15

mutilations just themselves are really weird

23:17

kiss. It doesn't make

23:19

any sense. No I

23:21

why they would have occurred. I

23:26

mean you know if if you're gonna if

23:28

you're gonna do something like this you would think there

23:30

would be a reason. And

23:34

if it was a hoax. They

23:36

just left it at that. They

23:40

didn't do anything else to perpetuate

23:42

the hoax right I mean you

23:44

you gotta realize they're they're not

23:46

talking about. An alien

23:49

base at this point. OK

23:52

they're just dealing with these cattle

23:54

mutilations so this yeah this feels

23:56

like an isolated incident. Yeah.

24:00

What can you and i am

24:02

we we did a whole episode on cattle mutilation

24:05

so. Here's my question

24:07

to you matt could all of the

24:09

if he's if he's absolutely

24:11

right with his story. Could

24:13

that be what is cattle mutilation are.

24:17

Is that they have unbeknownst

24:20

to the farmer's been

24:22

incubating babies inside cows

24:25

and then when the cattle is mutilated. What

24:29

they're doing is they're coming and retrieving

24:31

the fetus. And taking

24:33

parts of the cow for samples

24:35

to see how it affected them

24:38

if you. If

24:40

you entertain the ideas of

24:43

this base and what goes on there

24:46

then. It

24:48

absolutely seems reasonable. That

24:52

that's what they would be doing and

24:54

when you look at the eyewitness

24:56

reports of what's around there. It

25:02

makes it seem like that's exactly what

25:04

they're doing. Right right

25:06

it's really really strange and the

25:08

more you dig into this the

25:10

more bizarre it becomes. Yeah

25:13

it in it keeps opening

25:15

doors to other things. And

25:19

now phil Schneider who matt

25:21

will. Talk about

25:23

a little bit more in a

25:26

minute. He said that

25:28

he helped build an alien base in

25:30

dulce in nineteen seventy nine. He

25:33

claimed that he and others encountered aliens

25:35

during the construction of this base. Any

25:38

also said that sixty us soldiers

25:40

died in a gun battle with

25:42

extraterrestrials and that the military later

25:44

brokered a peace deal with the

25:46

beings. Apparently

25:49

there was a gun battle there

25:51

in archeleta mesa and sixty us

25:54

soldiers died from it. And

25:56

then there was a Peace deal

25:58

that was brokered. And that's why

26:00

they now co run the base. And

26:04

apparently. In that

26:06

firefight, Arm. And

26:11

and up and by Mrs. Lay Roman

26:13

emigrated mitten now. He

26:15

not only claimed to have seen this happen.

26:18

He supposedly lost a

26:20

few fingers. During.

26:23

The firefight by being hit by some

26:25

town of alien. Weapon. And.

26:28

He had missing fingers. The.

26:32

So. See

26:34

the same up with a story that

26:36

was cool to say how he lost

26:39

those fingers. Or.

26:42

This was actually how it happened. You. Know.

26:46

I know a guy. And

26:48

all friend of mine who. Lost.

26:51

A finger in a shop accident. And.

26:54

He did come up with different fun things

26:56

to say, but none of them involve aliens.

26:59

You know, I didn't even

27:01

go that far. He was like. The. Own

27:04

chihuahua bit my finger off and in

27:06

weird stuff like that. but. None.

27:08

Of and involved an alien by like a didn't

27:10

get this elaborate. Know he's

27:13

either a real elaborate storyteller.

27:16

Or. Something happened. But

27:18

you know he's not alone. right?

27:21

Mean we're not going off

27:23

exactly everything that fill Snyder

27:25

said. Says he

27:27

said he he helped the in the construction

27:29

of this base in Nineteen seventy a. Guy

27:33

in Nineteen Seventy Nine. And

27:36

Albuquerque business man named Paul

27:38

Benowitz. Became. Convinced

27:40

that he was intercepting electronic

27:43

communications from alien spacecraft. And

27:46

installations outside of Albuquerque.

27:49

Now by. The Nineteen Eighties.

27:52

He believes that he had discovered

27:54

the secret underground base near Dolce.

27:57

Populated. by gray aliens

27:59

and humans. By

28:03

1983, Benowitz's claims

28:06

appeared in the popular press. Now

28:11

a little bit about Benowitz.

28:13

Now in the 1970s, Benowitz

28:15

became a member of Arizona's

28:17

Aerial Phenomena Research Organization or

28:19

APRO. It's

28:22

a civilian UFO investigation group

28:25

and he attended a meeting on April

28:27

20, 1979

28:29

regarding the recent cattle mutilations and

28:32

this is where he first met

28:34

Gabe Valdez, the

28:36

state trooper that Adam mentioned. Now

28:40

a few months later, Benowitz

28:42

reportedly began filming strange

28:44

lights and recording unusual

28:46

radio signals over Kirtland

28:48

Air Force space. Now

28:52

on May 6, 1980,

28:56

just a little over a year later, state

28:59

police in Cimarron, New Mexico received

29:02

a report from a woman calling

29:04

herself Myrna Hanson and

29:07

she described a story involving

29:09

interplanetary visitors, bright lights and

29:11

herds of cattle. So

29:15

the police in Cimarron, they

29:18

sent the case to Gabe Valdez because

29:20

this was his thing. He

29:23

was the quote cattle mutilation guy

29:27

and Valdez in turn contacted

29:30

Paul Benowitz. He's

29:33

like, hey, you know, the Cimarron

29:36

police are giving me this story

29:40

because it mentions the cattle mutilations. What do

29:42

you think about this? I

29:45

mean, just a

29:48

day later, Myrna

29:51

Hanson and her son traveled

29:54

to Albuquerque to meet with Benowitz and

29:56

stayed in his home. Hanson

30:00

explained to Benowitz that on May 5th,

30:03

now this is fast here, so

30:06

this occurred on May 5th, the

30:08

police contacted Valdez on

30:10

the 6th and by May 7th,

30:14

okay, two days later, she

30:16

is at Benowitz's home. Yeah,

30:19

that's like the quickest investigation

30:22

I've ever heard of. I mean they

30:24

were moving on this. Yeah, they were.

30:27

So Hanson's story is that while she

30:29

was driving, this is on May 5th, 1980, while

30:31

she was driving with

30:35

her 6-year-old son near

30:37

Eagle Nest, New Mexico, they

30:40

had witnessed two large silent

30:42

objects approximately the size of

30:44

Goodyear blimps hovering

30:46

over a meadow. The

30:49

next thing she remembers is waking

30:51

up in her car and

30:53

her car was out of gas. She

30:57

was just outside the town of

30:59

Dolce, New Mexico. And

31:02

she was classic experiencer stuff

31:05

too. Right, and

31:07

then this, she realized

31:09

that she had lost about 6

31:11

hours. Yep. Okay, she

31:13

couldn't recall the last 6 hours.

31:21

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in. Now, APRO director James Lorenzen suggested contacting

35:30

Leo Sprinkle, a

35:32

psychologist and tenured professor at the

35:34

University of Wyoming who

35:37

had been investigating UFO contact

35:39

reports. So

35:41

Benowitz arranged for Sprinkle to

35:43

fly to Albuquerque and hypnotize

35:46

Hanson. This

35:48

is crazy right here. When Sprinkle

35:50

arrived, Hanson and

35:53

Benowitz insisted that the sessions be

35:55

conducted in Benowitz's Lincoln Town car

35:58

parked inside the garage. with

36:01

the car's windows covered with thick

36:03

aluminum foil. That's

36:05

weird. I know that's kind of

36:07

weird. Now during

36:10

her first regression which is you

36:12

know this type of hypnotherapy mm-hmm

36:16

she reported a recollection of a

36:18

cow being sucked up into a

36:20

hovering spaceship by a tractor beam.

36:25

Hmm. Like not

36:27

like a John Deere tractor. Yeah

36:30

right. Big John Deere

36:32

tractor going up into

36:35

the tractor beam. Yeah

36:37

it starts hoisting the cow

36:39

up with the tractor. Now

36:42

on May 11th and 12th, 1980 while

36:46

under hypnosis Hansen reported

36:48

recollections of an abduction and

36:51

of being taken to an underground

36:53

base with body parts

36:56

floating in vats. Hmm.

37:00

She recalled bright lights and

37:02

that she felt that she well the

37:05

bright light she thought wiped

37:08

her memory. Hmm. Now

37:11

Hansen's recollections would later evolve

37:13

into the legend of the

37:15

Dolce base. During

37:18

the session she

37:20

exclaimed Where's Roswell,

37:22

New Mexico? That's

37:26

weird. Now most members

37:28

of the public had not

37:30

yet connected the town to

37:32

UFO folklore. Okay

37:35

the Roswell story was

37:37

not what it is

37:39

today. Okay. Right.

37:41

Right. So for

37:44

her to spout off something about

37:46

Roswell it

37:48

wasn't a oh I'm

37:51

just gonna bring up Roswell because it's

37:53

it's like the alien hub or something.

37:55

It wasn't that at the time. Hmm.

37:58

Okay. It wasn't as widely known. Now,

38:02

Hansen reported recalling having been

38:04

giving an implant by

38:07

the aliens. So,

38:10

I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on. Yeah,

38:12

that's a whole thing. That's

38:14

not just an

38:17

abduction deal. There's abduction,

38:20

implants, all sorts of stuff.

38:24

So, about a month

38:26

later, on June 3rd, Sprinkle returned

38:29

to visit Benowitz, and

38:31

he found Benowitz armed with a pistol and

38:33

a rifle. And

38:36

he said he was concerned that he was

38:39

open to attacks from the aliens. Now,

38:43

Benowitz expressed a desire to

38:45

protect himself, his family,

38:49

and Myrna Hansen. So,

38:53

Benowitz then turned

38:55

to hypnotist James Harder, who

38:58

was an abduction researcher and a

39:00

professor of engineering. Now,

39:02

interestingly enough, Harder had

39:04

conducted a hypnotic regression of Travis

39:06

Walton in 1975. Hmm.

39:11

All right. So, I mean, I guess

39:15

in the UFO investigation

39:17

culture, he had the

39:22

bona fide. Yeah. I

39:25

mean, you know, he was a

39:27

part of the most well-known abduction

39:29

case. So,

39:32

the two believed Hansen was under

39:34

the influence of alien beams and

39:37

wrote detailed instructions on how to

39:39

use aluminum foil to shield a

39:41

room from the beams before

39:43

conducting a regression. So,

39:46

essentially, they thought, okay, so

39:49

she's under the influence of these beams, and

39:53

under hypnosis or not, what

39:56

she tells us is not going to be valid.

39:58

Yeah. So

40:00

they had to shield the

40:02

room they were in in

40:05

order to get accurate

40:08

responses out of her

40:10

hypnosis. So

40:15

take that for what it is. The

40:18

aluminum foil hats, you know, everything.

40:23

Had to shield it. Yeah, so in the

40:26

1980s, Benowitz started spreading rumors about

40:28

the Dolce base and detailed his

40:30

experiences in a paper called Project

40:33

Beta. Now after

40:35

the release of the paper, Richard

40:39

Doty, a former special

40:42

agent for the U.S. Air Force

40:44

Office of Special Investigations, says

40:47

he was tasked with

40:49

feeding false information to

40:51

UFO researchers like Paul

40:53

Benowitz. He

40:56

fed ufologists lies and

40:58

half-truths knowing that their imaginations

41:00

would do the rest. He

41:03

was told to make Benowitz believe there

41:06

was an impending alien invasion because

41:08

he was really observing secret

41:11

Air Force projects. And

41:14

the Air Force wanted to discredit Benowitz so

41:16

that no one would figure it out. Okay,

41:19

so he was a propaganda

41:22

guy. You know,

41:25

he dealt in misinformation in

41:28

order to throw

41:30

these ufologists off the track

41:33

and get them chasing

41:35

a red herring and

41:38

get them off of what was really going on. But

41:43

the funny thing was, Benowitz

41:46

and Doty actually became friends.

41:50

And after a while, Doty

41:53

even started to believe that what Benowitz

41:55

was seeing was extraterrestrial

41:57

in nature because... He

42:00

couldn't explain it himself. You

42:03

know, the objects and the lights

42:05

and all that. He, Dodie couldn't

42:07

come up with anything to discredit

42:09

that. I mean, you know,

42:11

he was, he was seeing the evidence and he's

42:13

like, I don't, I don't know.

42:16

How, what do I, what do I do with this?

42:18

Because, you know, Dodie's

42:20

job was to keep him from

42:23

figuring out what they were working on at

42:25

Kirtland Air Force Base. But

42:29

he starts seeing stuff and he's like, wait a minute.

42:31

They didn't tell me about this. You

42:34

know, I know about all the top secret stuff, but

42:36

I don't know anything about this stuff that he's seeing.

42:39

Right. So he started to believe it. It's

42:42

not lining up with his, his cover

42:45

stories. And

42:47

the cool thing about Dodie is

42:49

he reportedly worked at Area 51. Where

42:53

he reportedly saw reverse

42:55

engineered aircraft, humans

42:58

videotaping interactions with aliens

43:01

and took part in human abductions.

43:05

Hmm. Yeah. So

43:08

it's, it's not like. Part in human abductions. Yeah.

43:10

It's not like Dodie was just the guy that

43:12

just said, oh, this is all a bunch of

43:15

baloney. You know, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm

43:17

gonna throw him a bunch of, a bunch

43:19

of, a bunch of bull. Yeah.

43:21

And send them off looking in the wrong

43:23

direction. He

43:26

apparently had worked

43:28

in the situation where he

43:30

was privy to alien information. That's

43:34

wild. So

43:36

what he would have been throwing Benowitz

43:38

off of was this,

43:41

these reverse engineered aircraft that they

43:43

were developing and testing at Kirtland

43:46

Air Force Base. Yeah.

43:49

Yeah. Now, not the

43:51

other stuff that is being

43:53

claimed. Right. Now

43:55

on a side note, Dodie

43:58

said that Bob. Bob Lazar,

44:02

the man who reportedly worked on reverse

44:04

engineering alien craft at Area 51, he

44:07

said he has to be legitimate because

44:09

no one else would be able to

44:12

describe the layout as accurately as he

44:14

did unless he was actually there.

44:18

He even talked about how the security

44:21

clearances were color coded to

44:23

access different areas. He

44:25

said no one would know that. No

44:28

one would be able to make it up. The

44:31

more people that are willing to talk about

44:33

Lazar, the more it seems like

44:35

Lazar is not lying.

44:38

Well, I mean, if you look at

44:40

interviews, watch interviews with Bob Lazar, I

44:43

mean, he doesn't really

44:46

ever waver. No. You

44:49

know, I mean, you would think

44:51

over time, especially this much time,

44:56

you would see some alterations

44:58

in his story. Maybe it would become

45:00

more fantastical. Yep. But

45:02

it really doesn't. No. And

45:05

he's not one that wants to be

45:08

interviewed. So right. You know,

45:10

he tries to avoid the interviews as much

45:12

as possible. That's exactly right. You

45:14

know, the less I say, the better.

45:18

Now there are some locals

45:21

that have experienced some things

45:23

around the Archuleta Mesa that's

45:26

very unusual. Now,

45:29

Jerry Julian, who is a

45:31

Hiccaria elder, lives

45:33

on the outskirts of Dolce. Her

45:36

and her husband, Larry, have spent a lot

45:38

of time in the area around the Archuleta

45:40

Mesa while watching after their cattle.

45:44

And it was while sitting outside looking

45:46

after their cows that Jerry says she

45:48

began to see things. It

45:51

was in 1986 when Jerry

45:53

had her first encounter when she and

45:56

Larry were sitting on the table tailgate of their truck.

45:59

They saw a wild white egg-shaped object

46:01

fly down from the top

46:03

of Archuleta Mesa toward the

46:05

road. Larry

46:07

immediately told Jerry to get in the truck. Reluctantly,

46:11

Jerry got in, but

46:13

the truck wouldn't start. So

46:17

while Larry was trying to get the engine started, Jerry

46:20

saw two small people approaching

46:22

them. And

46:24

as they neared, the truck finally

46:26

started and Larry started to speed away.

46:28

But as Jerry looked back, she

46:32

saw the two figures return to the

46:34

egg-shaped craft and fly back to the

46:37

top of Archuleta Mountain. Oh,

46:40

dang. So I mean, this

46:42

is what she... Can you imagine? She claims she

46:44

saw, and her story hasn't changed. She

46:47

says she saw the craft land, she saw

46:49

a ladder come down, and these two figures

46:51

come out and start coming toward them. Dude,

46:55

that would be cool, but it would

46:57

be so scary too. Well,

46:59

yeah, especially

47:02

if you don't really know what's going on

47:04

and all of a sudden this is

47:08

happening, I mean, you

47:10

got to think what in the world

47:12

is going on. I mean,

47:14

getting out of here would be the first thing.

47:17

Absolutely. And in 1986, I mean, they're not talking about UFOs

47:19

and little alien man. Those

47:32

things are still kind of woo woo. But

47:38

later that night... You're right. Now

47:40

they might be a little

47:42

more open to it. Right. But

47:44

then, yeah, they didn't want... I mean,

47:46

it wasn't talked about. It

47:48

was you were made fun of if you

47:50

brought it up. So it wasn't a

47:53

thing to... I'm going to say

47:55

this to be cool because everybody else is talking

47:57

about it. Right. But

48:00

it was later that night that

48:02

Jerry reports that the beings actually came

48:04

to her home. I don't know.

48:07

And she awoke in the night to

48:09

the two trying to pull her out

48:11

of bed by her legs. And Jerry

48:13

said she was unable to scream. Really?

48:17

Yep. Now,

48:19

many of Jerry's neighbors also report

48:21

seeing flying craft lights

48:23

and even strange creatures. And

48:26

there is a belief that within the

48:28

underground base, genetic experiments

48:30

are being performed that

48:32

lead to these sightings. Huh.

48:35

Now, Jerry, in an interview

48:37

with KOAT News reports

48:40

having seen a man-goat

48:43

hybrid. She

48:46

says she saw what had, it had

48:48

goats legs and a tail, but

48:51

from the waist up, it was, it looked

48:53

like a man. How

48:56

far away is this from goat man's bridge? I

48:59

don't know. It's

49:02

getting quite a ways, but I mean. But

49:05

other people have reported seeing Bigfoot

49:09

and they even go as far as

49:11

to say Bigfoot is a creation of

49:13

the underground base. Really?

49:16

Yeah. Well,

49:19

I mean, if they're

49:21

doing genetic

49:23

hybrids of stuff, I

49:26

mean, you would think

49:28

that would come out in genetics

49:31

at some point if you crossed a

49:34

human with a gorilla or

49:36

something. Right. Eventually that

49:39

layout of genes

49:41

would happen. So I

49:43

don't know. It's really weird. And,

49:46

and supposedly there was a videotape

49:48

from one of the security cameras

49:50

that contained evidence of these activities.

49:54

It was stolen from the facility by

49:56

a security guard who said he buried

49:58

it in a nearby Valley. but

50:00

he's not been able to find it again. I know.

50:04

I know. But hey, it gets better. Okay.

50:08

Oh, good. But let's

50:10

talk about the base for a minute. Okay.

50:13

What the base is supposedly

50:17

how it looks and how it operates. Okay. Now,

50:22

as Adam said, there's no evidence that

50:24

has ever been shown to prove the

50:26

existence of the underground base. But

50:28

it hasn't stopped people from speculating. It's

50:32

said that the base is set up

50:34

with a series of tunnels that reach

50:37

all around the world to

50:39

key locations allowing for

50:41

undetected travel. Now,

50:46

that takes a lot. That's a lot.

50:48

Yeah. The

50:52

base is said to consist of seven

50:54

levels with each level requiring

50:57

its own rank of security clearance

50:59

to access. The

51:01

upper three levels are supposedly

51:03

used for security, human

51:06

staff housing, and

51:08

executive offices and labs. The

51:11

lower floors are used

51:14

for mind control, alien

51:16

housing, genetic

51:18

experimentation, and cryogenics.

51:22

Okay. Keep

51:25

that stuff buried, literally.

51:29

Now, on level six, there

51:32

is an area known as the

51:34

nightmare hall. Sounds

51:36

fantastic. Yeah. Now,

51:38

here, reportedly, are

51:41

found humans, alien-human

51:43

hybrids, and other results

51:46

of genetic manipulation caged

51:48

and or frozen in

51:50

cryogenic chambers. But

51:53

the most horrifying aspect of this base

51:57

is that it is by design meant

51:59

to allow for a new base. allow

52:01

the military to gain intelligence in return

52:03

for giving the

52:05

aliens, greys and

52:08

reptilians, members

52:10

of the population to use in

52:12

their experiments. And

52:16

it's often speculated that many of

52:18

the missing persons around the Dolce

52:20

area could be imprisoned inside

52:23

the mountain base. See,

52:25

and I mean, I

52:28

have heard now for a couple years

52:31

that a lot of

52:33

these quote alien abductions are not alien

52:39

doing the abducting. They're

52:43

the US military or some US

52:46

group, right? Abducting

52:48

them and then making

52:51

them think it's alien when

52:53

they return them. But,

52:57

you know, up until looking

52:59

into Dolce, you hadn't heard of, well,

53:01

this is where they're taken. You

53:04

just hear they abduct them,

53:07

run experiments, whatever. If

53:10

there is an underground secretive

53:12

black site here, then

53:15

that would be the spot to

53:17

do it. Right,

53:19

exactly. And the

53:21

idea that some of these missing

53:23

people that have never been found

53:27

are actually people that have been abducted

53:29

and imprisoned inside the mountain.

53:32

Uh-huh. Now,

53:34

there is a man named Thomas

53:36

Costello who claimed to have

53:38

worked at the base and in

53:41

essence was the first whistleblower revealing

53:43

the horrors that he encountered. Costello

53:46

also claimed that his wife and children

53:48

were taken from him in order to

53:51

ensure his compliance with the program. He

53:54

said he is not sure if his family was part

53:56

of the nightmare hall or if they

53:58

had just been killed. Now

54:01

Thomas Costello relays details of the

54:04

underground base in a YouTube video.

54:07

Now as a former security officer at

54:09

the Dolce base, Costello

54:11

discusses the origins and construction

54:13

of the underground facility. He

54:16

talks about electromagnetic controlled air

54:19

or spacecraft leaving and arriving

54:21

at the base and

54:23

how the facility is surrounded on

54:26

all sides by alien

54:28

bases. With one part

54:30

believed to be the size of Manhattan.

54:37

Costello also discusses the reptilian

54:39

beings on Earth, the

54:42

building of underground extraterrestrial bases

54:45

and subterranean highways in

54:48

America with the largest

54:50

amounts of entrances found in New

54:52

Mexico and Arizona. The

54:55

video explores the possibility of

54:58

high level Freemasons and

55:00

secret societies being involved with the

55:02

aliens and the underground installations.

55:06

Why is it always going to go back to the masons? It's

55:11

always the masons. They

55:14

got their hands in so much you don't think they

55:16

would have time to do anything else. Right.

55:19

They got to have like factions.

55:21

Yeah. Oh you're the

55:23

alien faction of the Freemasons. You're the ones

55:25

that know about Jack the Ripper. Y'all

55:28

are the ones that keep the Ark

55:30

of the Covenant. But

55:35

the video also discusses the unique

55:37

shape of the elevators in the

55:39

facility, the aliens use of

55:41

magnetics and their desire for

55:44

all the magnetic power on Earth. That

55:49

sounds like an evil villain

55:51

out of a Bond movie. Exactly.

55:53

I want all the magnetic power.

55:56

Yeah. Magneto. Dude

55:58

walking around, he's got refr- refrigerator magnets, you

56:01

know, welcome to Dolce magnet

56:03

right here. Yeah, exactly. Back

56:07

of his head, he's got the whole

56:09

alphabet. You can like move him around

56:11

and spell stuff. Yeah, those little plastic

56:13

letters that everybody has. Yep. People

56:17

are coming up behind him, right, kick me, you know,

56:19

on his back. Yeah, right. I'm

56:22

a Dulce dork. Now,

56:27

Castello goes on to say

56:29

that the small gray aliens

56:31

work under the supervision of

56:33

the reptilians, which he calls

56:35

the Draco. Now

56:37

he says the Draco are uncaring

56:39

creatures who have very little concern

56:42

or compassion for humans. Castello

56:45

goes on to describe the network of

56:47

tunnels, which he said exist

56:50

in every state and

56:52

that they were formed naturally, but are

56:54

used by the Draco and have

56:56

been used by the Draco for centuries. He

57:02

also says that other subterranean

57:04

civilizations have existed, and

57:06

Castello says that early pioneers

57:09

and settlers of Utah interacted

57:11

with these groups. Really?

57:15

Yeah. They actually were aware of

57:17

them and actually interacted with them.

57:21

That would be interesting

57:23

to go try to find writings

57:26

of that. I know. I

57:30

don't want to dig into this, okay? But

57:39

if you are familiar with

57:43

the – let's

57:46

say the extraterrestrial nature

57:50

of the Mormon history. Yeah. This

57:55

makes sense. Yep. That's true.

57:58

Okay. That's true. Now,

58:00

I'm just going to leave it at that. Yeah.

58:04

Now, he explains that there are

58:06

two distinct nations that occupy

58:08

North America. The

58:10

traditional grassroots America established by

58:13

our founding fathers and

58:16

the fascist Bavarian lodged-backed

58:19

underground nation led

58:21

by the corporate government. Okay,

58:24

essentially the shadow government. Yeah.

58:28

He says the underground system beneath

58:30

the Denver International Airport is believed

58:32

to be the capital of the

58:34

human segment of the secret government

58:36

in America. Wow, we've heard that

58:38

before. Yep. Yep.

58:41

And Mount Archuleta is

58:43

considered the capital of the

58:46

alien segment of the secret

58:48

Bavarian draconian New World Order

58:50

government in America. Hmm.

58:53

So essentially the aliens run part of

58:55

the government and

58:57

this secret shadow government

59:00

runs part of it. Yeah.

59:05

So, and they're not exactly

59:08

allies. You know, they're

59:10

not necessarily enemies, but they're not allies

59:12

either. It's

59:14

very, very strange. Now,

59:18

maybe- They work together, but they don't

59:20

want to. Kind of, yeah. Yeah.

59:23

I tell you, if you've ever

59:25

watched, oh crap,

59:29

Inside Job. You ever seen

59:31

that, the cartoon? No. Okay.

59:34

No. So there are two seasons

59:36

of this cartoon called Inside Job on Netflix.

59:38

Go check it out. It is absolutely hilarious.

59:41

Okay, for one. Okay. But

59:43

the whole idea is this. You

59:46

know, that there is a shadow

59:48

government. Now

59:50

the concept of the show is that

59:52

there are companies, there are

59:54

organizations, that that's their

59:56

job is to help the shadow

59:58

government pull these things out. off, you

1:00:01

know, to cover up stuff

1:00:03

and all this other kind of, you

1:00:06

know, but the idea is there. Now

1:00:10

the video also explores the possibility

1:00:12

that high level Freemasons and other

1:00:14

secret societies might be involved with

1:00:17

the aliens and these underground installations.

1:00:21

So it's not like they're just down

1:00:23

there isolated from

1:00:25

everything. You know,

1:00:27

they have surface

1:00:29

dwellers that are working

1:00:31

with them. Now

1:00:35

in May of 1990, John

1:00:39

Lear claimed to have

1:00:41

garnered four independent

1:00:43

confirmations that the seven story

1:00:46

structure was real. Lear

1:00:49

was a former pilot and government

1:00:51

man, as well as the

1:00:53

son of the inventor of the Lear jet.

1:00:57

So people gave some

1:00:59

credibility to his claims. His

1:01:03

detailed claims went so far as to

1:01:06

describe the different species of aliens who

1:01:08

allegedly visited earth. Lear's

1:01:10

allegations served as a foundation for further

1:01:13

claims about the New Mexico alien base.

1:01:18

Now Phil Snyder, who we've already

1:01:20

talked about, he was the

1:01:22

one that supposedly worked on the construction of

1:01:24

the base and

1:01:27

Snyder, he really worked to bring

1:01:29

Benowitz and Lear's claims out of

1:01:31

the fringes with

1:01:34

his public speeches and

1:01:36

bizarre stories about this alleged

1:01:38

base. Now

1:01:40

Snyder claimed to be a former

1:01:43

government employee and explosives expert and

1:01:46

said he was involved in the construction of

1:01:48

the Dolce base. Now

1:01:50

probably the most famous of

1:01:54

these presentations was in 1995 when he alleged that during the

1:02:00

project initial stages, that's when

1:02:02

that military firefight

1:02:05

occurred between the US military

1:02:07

and the aliens and

1:02:10

where he lost those fingers. Now

1:02:13

I think in that one he says there were 66 members

1:02:16

of the US military that were killed. Now

1:02:20

Schneider died on January 17th

1:02:22

1996 in a

1:02:24

death rule to suicide but the

1:02:27

circumstances are questionable. Schneider

1:02:30

himself said that

1:02:32

he had survived I

1:02:34

think 13 murder attempts. Wow.

1:02:38

You know so he was a he

1:02:40

claimed to be aware that they

1:02:43

were after him. You know they

1:02:45

wanted to shut him up. So

1:02:49

I don't and

1:02:51

this is just it seems

1:02:55

so outlandish. But

1:02:59

when you see these stories from the

1:03:01

locals in the Dolce area, when you

1:03:04

listen to these people you

1:03:06

know Lear and Benowitz, Schneider,

1:03:11

Costello, it really

1:03:13

makes you wonder were

1:03:17

all these people involved in the

1:03:19

same hoax? I

1:03:21

mean over the course of we're talking about

1:03:23

you know roughly 17 years

1:03:26

here from 79

1:03:28

to Schneider's death in

1:03:31

96. To

1:03:35

what end? Yeah.

1:03:37

I mean what were they

1:03:40

gaining from this? I mean

1:03:42

obviously they weren't getting rich and

1:03:44

God you know Lear was already

1:03:46

loaded. Mm-hmm

1:03:49

yeah he didn't need the money. Right.

1:03:52

So I mean that they

1:03:55

gained the kind of fame that you

1:03:57

don't necessarily want. I

1:04:00

mean, Snyder especially, I mean, if he fully

1:04:02

believed that people were after him and that

1:04:05

he had managed to avert

1:04:07

death multiple times, I

1:04:11

mean, why continue? Yeah.

1:04:15

I mean, I get it. You

1:04:19

know, if you're involved in something like this and

1:04:22

you want to get your message out, I can

1:04:24

understand that just eating you up inside. But

1:04:28

at some point, you got to say, I don't want

1:04:30

to die. Mm-hmm.

1:04:34

And whether he committed suicide or

1:04:36

not, I don't really, that's not the

1:04:39

point. The

1:04:41

point is, he said that

1:04:43

he had been targeted several

1:04:46

times. I mean, it

1:04:48

would really only take once for me. I'd

1:04:51

be like, I'll shut up. Right.

1:04:53

Yeah, I'm done now. Yeah. Don't

1:04:55

kill me. I'll quit talking about it. But

1:05:04

like Adam said at the beginning, if you're

1:05:06

going to put that back somewhere,

1:05:09

Dolce New

1:05:11

Mexico is as good as any

1:05:13

other spot because you're

1:05:17

around the fewest number of humans

1:05:19

as you could possibly get unless

1:05:21

you put it in Antarctica, which

1:05:24

that's a whole other story.

1:05:28

Yeah, that's a whole other episode.

1:05:30

But if you needed to put

1:05:32

one in North America, this

1:05:36

is a good spot. Yeah.

1:05:38

I mean, it makes sense. And maybe

1:05:40

that's why the story focuses

1:05:42

there because it is a good

1:05:45

spot. And

1:05:47

maybe strange things are

1:05:49

out there and there's not

1:05:51

as much of a human presence

1:05:53

in that region. So

1:05:56

maybe it does facilitate these kind

1:05:58

of stories. And

1:06:00

who knows maybe maybe the

1:06:03

local Air Force Base maybe they were working

1:06:05

on something top secret Maybe they didn't need

1:06:07

people, you know looking into it or Or

1:06:11

cause us I mean Benowitz actually

1:06:13

went To

1:06:16

Kirtland Air Force Base and told them

1:06:18

about what he was picking up

1:06:22

Yeah, then the other thing that is

1:06:26

This is a the Hickory

1:06:28

Apache reservation, right? there

1:06:34

The rules and laws

1:06:36

are a little bit different on reservations, right

1:06:38

and I recently

1:06:40

watched a documentary. I can't remember now

1:06:42

what it was But

1:06:45

the part I can remember is there was

1:06:47

another guy on another

1:06:49

reservation That apparently he

1:06:51

went around To different

1:06:53

he were he was proven

1:06:56

to be a government employee But

1:06:58

he would go to different countries and work with

1:07:00

disparate groups and try to help them Grow

1:07:04

economy and stuff. Well, then he moved out

1:07:06

to this one reservation and Started

1:07:09

working out there trying to build

1:07:12

stuff While they were out there and

1:07:15

somehow a lot of money was coming

1:07:17

into this reservation. Mm-hmm From

1:07:20

they don't know where I know exactly what you're talking

1:07:22

about Yeah, so could

1:07:24

that be something similar

1:07:27

where let's put it on this reservation Where

1:07:30

we can there's not as many eyes

1:07:32

on us. Some of the

1:07:35

governmental regulations are different. Yep,

1:07:37

so You know could

1:07:40

that explain also? Why

1:07:42

it's where it is and why

1:07:45

it's claimed to be where it's claimed to be

1:07:47

and the the the The guy you're talking about

1:07:49

and the documentary you're talking about there

1:07:52

is a component of There

1:07:55

being a shadow government to

1:07:57

them. Mm-hmm that Things

1:08:00

are not what they seem and

1:08:04

that people have gotten way too close.

1:08:07

Yeah. And have

1:08:09

paid the price for it. Yeah.

1:08:13

Whether it's with their lives

1:08:16

or, you know, 25-year

1:08:19

prison sentences. Mm-hmm. So

1:08:23

it is curious. It

1:08:27

is interesting to note that

1:08:32

you cannot visit this area without

1:08:36

a member of

1:08:38

the Hikariya Apache tribe. Right.

1:08:42

I mean, you have to have someone

1:08:44

with you. So this

1:08:46

is not some place that you

1:08:49

can just go, hey, let's go check this

1:08:51

out ourselves. Yeah, let's

1:08:53

go on a hike. You've got to have a guide. Mm-hmm.

1:08:56

And one of the videos that I

1:08:59

watched, that's what

1:09:01

they did. They had a

1:09:03

guy, and he's telling the

1:09:05

stories while, man,

1:09:09

this is just the way it is. Flippantly. Yeah. I

1:09:12

mean, well, no, not flippant, but

1:09:14

he's just telling the stories like,

1:09:16

I've heard them so many times.

1:09:19

Mm-hmm. This is what it is. You

1:09:21

know, this is not, oh, there's this

1:09:23

legend. No, he's saying,

1:09:26

you know, this is

1:09:28

what happened to this person. Oh,

1:09:30

and this person over here, they saw this.

1:09:33

You know, it's just, I

1:09:36

mean, as flat as like this, this is just,

1:09:38

this is the way it is. Yeah, daily life.

1:09:41

You know, it's fact. Yeah. And

1:09:45

of course, those folks on the

1:09:47

reservation, I mean, they

1:09:49

got no reason to lie. I

1:09:52

mean, really, I mean, when you see the

1:09:54

news interviews with those people, they're

1:09:57

just like, man, this is weird. And

1:10:00

even the interviewer goes, you know, do you

1:10:02

think there's a base under the mountain? They're

1:10:04

like, yeah. Yeah.

1:10:10

I mean, and again, it's not a matter

1:10:12

of, well, it could

1:10:14

be. No. They're just like, yeah, yeah.

1:10:16

There's something there. They're like, there

1:10:19

sure is. So

1:10:22

what do you guys think? I

1:10:24

mean, this is, like I

1:10:26

said, this sounds like a crazy story, but

1:10:29

when you start looking at all the

1:10:31

reports and all the people that claim

1:10:34

to have firsthand knowledge of its existence,

1:10:37

you think there's an underground base

1:10:39

in, you know, Mount Archuleta? Let

1:10:42

us know. And one of the best places

1:10:44

to do that is in our Facebook group. It

1:10:47

is a private group. You can share your

1:10:49

thoughts and your personal experiences, and you don't have

1:10:52

to worry about, you know, someone you work

1:10:54

with, seeing it and going, hey,

1:10:57

Tom, Tom's a little off, you know,

1:11:00

he's talking about this. No,

1:11:02

everybody just wants to hear these

1:11:04

great stories. No

1:11:06

one's going to make fun of you, call you a

1:11:09

loony. You know, we're just, we're all interested in the

1:11:11

same thing, and this is a good place to share

1:11:13

it. You can check

1:11:15

out our website, which is

1:11:17

graveyardpodcast.com, and there you can

1:11:20

listen to the show. You can find

1:11:22

links to purchase Graveyard Tales merchandise, and

1:11:25

you can become a patron. And we

1:11:27

thank all of our contributors

1:11:30

and donators. We

1:11:33

appreciate it so much. I mean, Adam and

1:11:35

I couldn't continue to do this at

1:11:38

the level that we're doing it without you.

1:11:40

So thank you for that. Man,

1:11:43

I tell you what, this

1:11:47

is, it still just blows

1:11:49

me away. I mean, I was

1:11:51

telling Amanda about it the other night. She's just like,

1:11:54

are you kidding me? Yeah.

1:11:57

I mean, it sounds so wild, but.

1:12:00

Then again, I can

1:12:03

see it being a thing. Yep, absolutely.

1:12:07

So until next time, we'll

1:12:10

save you a seat in

1:12:12

the graveyard. See

1:12:14

you soon. For

1:13:00

you, it's a rate based on you with all

1:13:02

spots. Part one based on the driver who

1:13:04

treats the highway like a race track and

1:13:06

the shoulder like a passing lane. Why

1:13:09

pay a rate based on anyone else? Get one

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