0:00

Alright, so Matt, I don't know if

0:02

I told you this, but I got fired from

0:04

my last job and is because I asked the

0:07

person if they preferred smoking

0:09

or non smoking. What,

0:12

really? Yeah, I guess you're supposed to

0:15

ask cremation or burial, not smoking. Oh,

0:18

God. Okay,

0:20

good. Good

0:35

evening, everybody, and welcome to the

0:37

graveyard. Thank you for joining us

0:39

tonight. My name is Adam.

0:41

And my name's Matt. Now, pull

0:44

up a tombstone or settle

0:46

into your casket and get comfortable,

0:49

because this is

0:52

Graveyard Tales. All

0:57

right, everybody, here we are again. Matt,

1:00

how are you doing tonight, brother? Hey,

1:02

I'm good. Good deal. Cold, but I'm

1:04

good. Y'all

1:06

got it worse than we did for sure. We

1:10

were back up to 43 today, man. After

1:14

the last few days, I was like walking

1:16

out in shorts. And it was great. Yeah,

1:20

no. I'm

1:23

double bundled tonight. Right. So,

1:26

before we get into it, I want to

1:28

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1:30

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1:32

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1:44

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Oh yeah and we talk about all kinds of

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2:47

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2:54

So check it out. Yep

2:57

and I finally remember to say this but

2:59

next week we're dark. So don't look for

3:02

an episode. I always forget to say it

3:04

on the week before our dark week. I

3:06

remembered this time so you can

3:08

congratulate me later but we are dark next

3:11

week. Alright

3:13

Matt so that's all I got for the housekeeping.

3:15

What are we talking about tonight brother? So

3:18

tonight Adam and I

3:21

are looking into a place

3:24

that yeah Adam Adam's

3:26

been on about for a while

3:29

now. Any

3:31

any pitch that again I was like yeah that sounds great

3:34

and to be totally honest I didn't

3:36

really know much about

3:39

this place and so got

3:41

into the research and man it

3:44

this is this is an

3:47

incredibly active place we're gonna

3:49

discuss tonight. It is the

3:51

Eloise psychiatric

3:53

hospital Eloise asylum

3:57

whatever whatever you want to call it or

3:59

just Eloise Just L.O.E.s as

4:01

most people refer to it, which

4:04

is in Westland, Michigan. And

4:08

I mean, seriously. It

4:13

is crazy active. The building has been

4:16

empty since 1984. But

4:21

when it was open and operational, it

4:23

was a large,

4:26

large functioning

4:29

hospital, psychiatric

4:31

hospital, I mean,

4:33

you name it, they had it and

4:37

it sits on an enormous property.

4:39

Yes, it does. Which

4:44

actually plays into what we're

4:47

going to talk about tonight. The size

4:49

of the property and what

4:51

all went on there. And

4:54

we've talked about plenty of

4:57

hospitals and asylums over the

4:59

years. I

5:01

don't know that we've talked about one that's quite

5:05

this active. No, no. I

5:07

was thinking about that too. We

5:10

have discussed some very active quote

5:13

insane asylums and

5:16

mental hospitals, regular hospitals. And

5:19

they're all active, but

5:21

there's something about L.O.E.s that

5:25

ramps up that activity to

5:28

new heights that I haven't seen

5:30

before. Yeah. Yeah.

5:33

And some people have some theories as

5:35

to why. We're

5:37

going to talk about that more a little later. So

5:39

as we always say, go check the sources down at

5:42

the bottom of our show notes.

5:44

You can find where we found all this

5:46

information. And trust me, you're going to want

5:48

to continue the research if this place

5:50

interests you. Because if

5:52

I were to spend as

5:55

much time as is needed on the

5:57

history of this place, we

5:59

would be here. till October. We

6:02

would do this show and then we would do

6:04

our Halloween show. That's all we would do. So

6:08

I've got a brief history of

6:10

it. Brief enough for you to

6:12

understand the craziness of this place.

6:15

But down at the bottom of the show notes you

6:17

can find our sources. Now

6:20

it sits like Matt was saying at 30712 Michigan

6:24

Avenue in Westland Michigan and

6:26

it's right outside Detroit. It's

6:29

in Wayne

6:31

County. So if you know

6:33

where Wayne County is, it's

6:35

in Wayne County. And this huge

6:38

complex of buildings and

6:40

land operated from 1839 until 1984 when

6:42

it finally

6:48

closed its doors. If

6:51

you can believe that, that is

6:53

a long time for one

6:55

hospital. But it's because it went

6:58

through so many iterations of what Eloise was.

7:01

And well I'll try to touch on some

7:03

of the different ones as we go through

7:05

but it wasn't just one thing. Yeah

7:07

like a lot of the places

7:10

we've talked about, they served other

7:12

purposes over

7:14

the decades. Right. Now

7:17

a lot of this information

7:19

that I've got comes from Eloise's

7:21

written history. It was

7:23

just the most concise and detailed

7:28

that I could find on

7:30

it. So Eloise was originally called

7:33

the Wayne County Poorhouse and we've

7:35

discussed poorhouses before. Poorhouses

7:38

are a place where if you

7:40

don't have money to live and you

7:43

need help you can go there and

7:46

work as your payment to

7:49

live there. So you get room and

7:51

board but you got to do work. So

7:54

that's what Eloise started out as.

7:57

And it was first located on I

8:02

don't know how you say

8:04

this, Gratiot, GRAT IOT and

8:07

Mount Elliott Avenues, but the

8:09

county purchased the Black Horse Tavern,

8:12

which was an old stagecoach stop and

8:14

they ended up moving the poor house

8:16

there. So it

8:19

moved buildings real early on. But

8:22

originally there were 146 people

8:24

that were living at the poor house at

8:27

that original location, but only 25

8:29

of them decided to move to the new

8:31

location. The other 111

8:34

refused to go into what was

8:36

mostly wilderness at the time. Yeah.

8:39

So, hey yo, go live out in the woods for

8:41

a while. Right. We got a

8:43

building. Like, you can move over there. Yeah.

8:45

Most of them are like, no, I don't

8:47

want to go. I'm pretty well in the

8:49

city here and you're going to

8:51

move me out to this wilderness area. No

8:53

thanks. So only 25 of

8:56

the original tenants moved

8:59

with the poor house. Now

9:02

Eloise is called, like Matt was

9:04

saying, Eloise Asylum, Hospital,

9:07

Sanatorium, or sometimes

9:09

people even called it the crazy

9:11

hospital. Because we

9:13

all, we've talked before about how people

9:16

referred to things many

9:18

years ago. Even

9:22

the insane asylum is

9:24

not the correct terminology for it now. No.

9:28

I think of it as like my

9:31

daughter, one of my daughters when she was

9:33

little, she

9:35

called everything by what it did. If

9:39

it was an air freshener, it was a

9:41

smeller. If

9:43

it was a microphone, that was a singer. A

9:48

lot of times people

9:50

didn't understand. So

9:53

they added these names for what

9:55

people did or what they looked

9:57

like or other kind of, you

9:59

know, what whatever affliction, they just,

10:01

you know, they weren't necessarily

10:04

being insensitive. They

10:06

were being ignorant. But

10:10

very literal. For them. It's

10:12

a very literal term. But

10:15

yeah, I mean, that's how we get a

10:17

lot of these old terms that we refer

10:20

to these folks. Right.

10:23

Now, they added all those names to it. Then

10:26

the hospital opened an outdoor

10:28

treatment center for tuberculosis patients.

10:31

So it was the poor house.

10:33

And then they added this tuberculosis treatment

10:36

center. And so then

10:38

they started calling it the hospital,

10:41

the Eloise Hospital, the Eloise Asylum.

10:45

Now the name Eloise Hospital was actually

10:47

adopted by the board of superintendents of

10:49

the poor on August 18th, 1911. It

10:54

would later become again, the Wayne

10:56

County Asylum. But the term Eloise

10:59

was originally used because the United

11:01

States government set the

11:03

post office located in the general

11:05

office building and named it Eloise.

11:09

So it kind of took on that name. But

11:11

later the name Eloise was applied to

11:13

the Michigan Central Railroad Depot that was

11:15

there. The American Express

11:18

Company located there and the

11:20

Detroit, Ypsilanti

11:22

and Ann Arbor Road all

11:25

became known with the

11:27

name Eloise attached to it. Yeah.

11:30

And you may not have, I found

11:32

a blurb about this that it was

11:35

Eloise was the daughter of

11:39

Detroit's postmaster. Yeah,

11:41

that's what I got next. Yeah.

11:44

Okay. Leave it to me. Just

11:47

step on Adam's comment. Yeah.

11:51

Because the next thing I've got is, but why

11:53

Eloise? Oh, yeah. Okay. Sorry.

11:56

No, you're fine. So

11:59

why Eloise? So

12:01

prior to the year 1894,

12:04

there were no post offices,

12:06

express offices, or railroad offices

12:08

located at any institutions. Well,

12:10

this slowed deliveries in the Wayne,

12:12

Westland, and Detroit areas, and the

12:14

superintendent motioned for

12:16

a post office located at the county

12:19

house on May 1st, 1894. The

12:22

postmaster general at the time approved

12:24

for the location. However,

12:26

to avoid any annoyance

12:28

to his department, he established the

12:31

order that all newly established post

12:33

offices would have only short

12:35

names or names of one

12:38

word, and none could resemble closely

12:40

to any other within the state.

12:43

So Freeman B Dickerson, recent

12:45

postmaster of Detroit, was the

12:47

president of the board, and

12:49

he was largely responsible for getting the new county

12:52

house center built, and he's very

12:54

interested in the establishment of the post office.

12:57

His only living child, a daughter

12:59

who was four years old, was called Eloise.

13:03

So members of the board submitted the

13:05

name Eloise, which was then sent

13:07

to Washington and approved. On July

13:09

20th, 1894, the post office was established under the name Eloise. So

13:15

it was named after

13:17

the postmaster's daughter, who was four. So

13:20

a four year old got

13:22

all this stuff named after her. That's

13:24

right. You know what I got named after me? Nothing.

13:29

A bomb? Well,

13:31

yeah, that

13:33

didn't think about that. Really? But

13:35

yeah, close enough. Yeah. Again,

13:38

it's all semantics. It

13:40

is. It's tomato, tomato. You

13:43

know, and you know what they

13:45

say, you can't trust an atom because they make

13:47

up everything. That's right. So

13:53

Eloise, like we were saying, evolved over time

13:55

and it expanded by the 1930s. And

13:59

by that time, it was expanded. time there were 78 buildings

14:02

on almost a thousand acres of

14:05

land yeah 78 buildings that's

14:09

insane man I mean

14:11

you know that's bigger than an

14:13

apartment complex mm-hmm okay this is

14:16

I mean this is

14:18

huge yeah imagine having to

14:20

manage no 78 buildings

14:23

on your property I do good managing

14:25

one home I mean you're gonna have

14:29

a whole team of people I

14:31

mean that's just tons of employees

14:34

just to do the maintenance right

14:36

all of these buildings in this

14:38

enormous property not to mention the

14:40

staff that had to work with

14:42

the patients and in the hospital

14:44

yeah yeah I know I

14:47

don't see how they did it but they

14:49

kind of didn't which we'll talk about in a

14:51

minute but it

14:54

was a self-sufficient community within

14:57

Westland Township it

14:59

had its own dairy farm piggery

15:02

which is a pig farm with never

15:04

heard that term I never have either

15:06

until looking this up but

15:09

that's why I left it in piggery sounds kind

15:11

of cool I don't know why I like I

15:13

like the term piggery it had

15:15

greenhouses it had its own fire

15:17

department and power plants bakeries and

15:20

like we said its own post

15:22

office now the

15:24

main building was called in building and

15:27

it was over 380,000 square feet and it housed 7,000 indigent

15:33

persons so over

15:35

3,000 of them were

15:37

working throughout the large complex now

15:40

in the early days of Eloise the

15:42

male patients had triple decker beds so

15:45

like three-story bunk

15:47

beds mm-hmm but when dr. TK

15:49

Gruber took over as medical superintendent

15:52

he abolished the use of these

15:54

beds but just think about that

15:56

you know there's you've got these triple decker

15:59

beds there's probably

16:02

at least three

16:04

of them per room so

16:07

you've got nine to

16:09

fifteen dudes in one room

16:13

yeah it is a

16:15

sound more like a barracks mm-hmm

16:17

exactly exactly I was gonna say if

16:19

you've ever been in the military you know how that smells

16:21

that's not good yeah twelve to fifteen

16:23

dudes in one room does not smell good

16:27

now eloise was not only a

16:29

general hospital and housing unit for

16:31

the poor of Wayne County but

16:34

it's commonly referred to as like

16:36

we said the crazy hospital because

16:38

Eloise was a facility for mentally

16:40

disturbed patients Eloise also

16:42

had a section for a morgue now

16:45

they're said to be 7145 former Eloise residents

16:51

buried in the old Eloise

16:53

cemetery which is located on

16:55

the south side of Michigan Avenue just across

16:58

from Kay Beard building the

17:00

last burial is said to have occurred in January of

17:02

1948 but

17:06

seven thousand yeah I

17:09

I can't get over that number I know

17:12

the numbers associated with Eloise

17:14

are ridiculous yeah

17:16

everything is way more than

17:18

what you imagine and when

17:21

I learned that there were over 7100 graves

17:26

on that property that

17:28

we know of yeah and it was I

17:31

mean it was essentially a potter's field I

17:33

mean it was I mean you were buried

17:35

there if no family

17:37

members or anyone came and

17:40

claimed your body so they

17:43

just buried you there you know

17:45

in a in a in a very simple

17:47

grave with a with a very

17:50

small marker yeah and I think

17:53

correct me if I'm wrong but I think the markers like

17:55

you said they were small they were stone

17:57

or concrete or something and they had a

17:59

number Yeah written on them and then

18:01

you had to go look up the number to find who

18:03

was there Yeah, like you'd have 1345

18:08

and then you'd have to go to the book and figure

18:10

out who 1345 was So

18:13

you can imagine how small of a

18:15

stone it would be if all it

18:17

had on it was a number Mm-hmm.

18:20

So, you know these stones were

18:22

were small maybe What

18:24

would be a long what a

18:27

foot long maybe if that

18:29

yeah Probably not not

18:31

even You

18:33

know some of the ones that I've seen, you know

18:36

pictures of and so forth they

18:38

I Don't know

18:40

there may be about six inches

18:42

square. Yeah, and they've got the number carved

18:44

in and that's about it and Not

18:47

only do they're being small You

18:50

know indicate, you know, they didn't have

18:53

they didn't have the money or the space and

18:55

and probably not the time to

18:58

give these people a proper burial and and

19:01

mark their headstone and everything

19:03

because they were burying people just on

19:07

Almost, you know one one on top

19:09

of the other. Mm-hmm But

19:12

how easy those small stones

19:14

became overgrown. Yeah and

19:17

and Just come just

19:19

disappear. Yeah. Yep, cuz

19:21

they are still working on Locating

19:24

all of these graves they're

19:26

right currently still they've got a project out

19:28

trying to locate

19:31

and Unearth all of

19:33

these headstones and so they're they're

19:35

actually hopeful hopefully Going

19:38

to be able to match death

19:40

certificates with the number of the plot so,

19:43

you know these people can you

19:46

know once again have their name and They're

19:49

there I did and I'm sure you did too

19:52

Adam I read Articles

19:55

about people that were able to

19:59

get those dead certificates and find

20:01

those markers for their ancestors. Which

20:08

I think is pretty important if

20:11

you had a family member die there or you want

20:13

to know where they're at. Even

20:16

if you don't go visit them every

20:18

week, you want to know where they're at. The

20:23

keeper's residence on the property had

20:25

originally been located in the west end of

20:28

the main building, but

20:30

in 1865 a

20:32

new structure was approved to be built

20:35

for the keeper and his family. That

20:37

building had a frontage of

20:39

about 46 feet and was 37 feet wide and

20:41

had two stories. So

20:45

it was a fairly decent

20:48

size building for a keeper's

20:51

house, but it was him and his

20:53

family. The

20:56

previous portion of the main building that had

20:58

been used by the keeper and his family

21:00

was turned into bedrooms, a dispensary, and nursery.

21:04

By 1876 there were buildings for

21:06

the quote, insane asylum. The

21:08

name used for these buildings was

21:10

the third county house. In

21:13

1839 there was also a school district

21:16

with a school house located on the

21:18

property. It had its own school district,

21:21

not just school house, but its own school

21:23

district. And there were

21:25

several children in the county house at the

21:27

time. It was first opened in Detroit whose

21:29

parents had died from cholera and

21:32

the county house was their only home. Well

21:34

in section 52 of chapter 2 of the laws of 1838 it stated that the

21:36

superintendent of

21:40

the poor in every county were

21:42

obligated to look after

21:44

the education of all children between the ages of

21:46

5 and 16. So

21:49

a room was set aside and apart

21:52

from the rest of the building where

21:54

the children would assemble for school. In

21:58

1859 an old building was built in 1859. that had

22:00

been used during a smallpox epidemic

22:02

was made into a schoolhouse. So

22:06

think about that for a minute. You're in a... The

22:10

kids are being taught math

22:13

in an old smallpox building.

22:17

There's a creep factor there. Yeah, seems

22:19

safe. Now

22:22

the next year the board erected a

22:24

schoolhouse along Plank Road so they didn't

22:27

have to keep using the smallpox

22:29

ward. Now

22:31

at one point a

22:33

maximum security section was added to

22:35

the house added

22:38

to house the criminally insane. So

22:42

this only added to the pressures on the staff

22:44

and the patients as well. Yeah.

22:47

So just think about that for a minute. You have

22:50

people who

22:53

have mental issues and

22:55

they're in this state house. Then

22:58

on top of that you

23:00

add a maximum security

23:03

section for criminally insane.

23:06

So the people like I

23:09

guess you would say Gacy and and

23:11

stuff like that to get not not

23:13

that Gacy was there but somebody

23:16

like that you could say he was criminally insane

23:18

and they would put him there. Yeah.

23:20

So you got you

23:24

have to have specially trained you

23:26

can't just put the

23:28

people that are in the main

23:30

psychiatric ward then

23:32

taking care of the criminally insane.

23:35

Yeah because these people

23:37

were dangerous. Oh yeah very dangerous. You

23:40

know they were they were a danger

23:42

to others they were a

23:44

danger to themselves in many cases. So

23:47

you know their care required

23:50

a much higher level of

23:53

sophistication. Yeah.

23:55

Not and not just for the patient's

23:57

well-being but for the staff. You

24:01

know, you're not going

24:03

to send an untrained individual in to have

24:05

to take care of folks that could potentially

24:07

harm them. So,

24:10

but you know

24:12

in cases like this

24:14

that's bound to have happened. Sure.

24:18

Somebody's like, I know Jiu-Jitsu. I'll be fine.

24:21

Yeah. They weren't fine.

24:25

Yeah, this is Tom. Tom doesn't feel

24:27

pain. Oh, okay.

24:30

So what do you want to do? He

24:32

slaughtered 487 cats

24:34

before coming here. So just keep

24:38

an eye out. Now,

24:42

we talked about the poor house and how you had

24:44

to work for your

24:47

room and board there. Well, the

24:49

poor house's philosophy that manual

24:52

labor was therapeutic continued into

24:54

the hospital setting. So

24:58

even those there for

25:01

in the psychiatric ward were

25:04

made to do physical labor

25:07

for therapeutic purposes. Now,

25:11

I don't see a lot wrong with

25:13

that. I get the thought,

25:16

you know, busy hands. Keep yourself

25:18

busy doing something. I know physical

25:21

labor is therapeutic for me. If

25:24

I'm not out doing something with my

25:26

hands or building something, I

25:28

go crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So

25:30

I get that, but you also have

25:33

to think places like

25:35

this didn't just stop with,

25:37

hey, here, build this cabinet. It

25:40

was go ho this field for

25:43

17 hours a day, you

25:45

know, and we might give you

25:47

water breaks. Not that

25:49

they were intentionally doing that as

25:51

torture. That just is how it would

25:54

be with this many people on

25:57

a farm situation like

25:59

this. Yeah. I

26:01

mean, you know, those kind of things that

26:03

we take for granted now, you know, that,

26:06

well, there's laws that limit how long

26:09

you can work in certain

26:11

conditions and how many breaks you need to

26:14

get and that you need to have water

26:16

and food and all this other

26:18

stuff. You know, those kind of, those

26:20

labor laws that protect us in

26:23

the US weren't around in

26:25

the early days of Eloise. So,

26:28

you know, again, it wasn't

26:31

so much that anyone

26:33

was trying to be intentionally

26:35

cruel. It was, they just

26:37

didn't think about it. Right. Exactly.

26:40

They had so many other things that they had

26:42

to worry about that if,

26:46

you know, if Jim and

26:48

Joe didn't

26:50

drink enough water that day, that that was

26:52

going to cause a problem for them. They're

26:54

too busy, you know, trying to make sure

26:56

that, you know, somebody doesn't,

26:59

you know, hurt themselves, you

27:02

know, or that, you know, the chicken

27:04

that's going to feed 150

27:07

people isn't undercooked.

27:09

Right. You know?

27:11

Now, on top of all the other

27:14

stuff that happened at Eloise, Eloise also

27:16

served at Michigan as a fully functional

27:18

hospital as well. So

27:21

patients came from Detroit and other communities

27:23

to get x-rays done. And

27:27

because it was, it

27:32

had the equipment to do all this

27:34

stuff where other hospitals might not. But

27:38

the facility also housed the first

27:40

kidney dialysis unit in the state

27:42

of Michigan and pioneered the

27:44

use of music therapy. And

27:47

in many ways, Eloise was at the time considered a model

27:49

of scientific advancement field.

28:00

Oh yeah, yeah. And

28:03

that you have to take

28:06

that with a grain

28:08

of salt of the time because

28:10

there have been many other hospitals

28:12

and psychiatric hospitals that we've

28:14

talked about that

28:17

were the pinnacle of science at the

28:19

time but a couple

28:22

years later we figured out oh that's

28:24

not a good thing to be doing.

28:26

Yeah oh you should

28:28

wash your hands before surgery. Yeah

28:30

exactly. Germ theory. Oh

28:33

look robotamies aren't

28:35

all that helpful. Right, right. Now

28:40

on that note the use of

28:42

shock therapy was employed at Eloise

28:45

and this was like we've talked about

28:47

before a technique used in

28:50

psychiatry to

28:52

treat depressive disorders and

28:54

other illnesses by inducing

28:56

seizures or other extreme

28:59

brain states. It was

29:01

started in the 1930s and it

29:03

used electric shock to cause seizures that often

29:05

left the patient in a vegetative state but

29:09

like we said this was when mental health research

29:12

was in its infancy. Right. So

29:14

many patients were used as guinea pigs by

29:16

the doctors and just

29:18

like with

29:21

lobotomies they

29:23

thought when this patient

29:26

was left in a vegetative state from

29:29

electroshock therapy same

29:31

as after a lobotomy that they

29:34

had cured the problem.

29:38

You didn't cure the problem you just

29:41

shut them down where they they

29:43

can't function now. Yep.

29:46

But I think I

29:48

remember this reminds me of I want

29:51

to say it was a far side but I can't

29:53

be 100% sure but it was a comic

29:56

strip similar and

29:58

it's a guy and he He's standing out his front

30:01

yard and his house is just destroyed. You

30:03

know, part of it's burning, it's crumbling, it's fallen

30:05

down. And he's standing out there and

30:07

there's people looking at it. He's like, well, I got that

30:10

spider. Yeah. Yep.

30:14

Well, we cured them. Yeah,

30:16

but look at them. You

30:18

know, what

30:20

else did you do? It is the, is

30:23

the cure worse than the

30:25

symptom. Right. But

30:29

like we said, they were

30:32

used as guinea pigs, but Eloise didn't

30:34

have a lack of patients

30:37

that these doctors could practice on.

30:40

They, they had a lot of patients.

30:43

Some of them were unruly, as

30:46

you would imagine with a psychiatric hospital.

30:49

And the problem was a lot of

30:51

unruly patients were kept chained to the

30:54

walls as a way to control them. Hmm.

30:57

So instead of dealing with them or

30:59

finding a medication that worked or something

31:02

they could do, they chained them to the wall and

31:04

they left them chained to the wall. Now

31:06

this goes with having so many

31:08

people in this hospital and

31:12

on top of electroshock therapy, they

31:14

also employed insulin theory, insulin

31:17

therapy, lobotomies, and

31:19

hydrotherapy. Now, Matt,

31:23

you have some, uh,

31:26

knowledge on this that I don't have, even though

31:29

I have a little bit of knowledge about insulin.

31:32

When insulin is given to someone that doesn't

31:34

need it and in high doses, that can

31:36

cause some problems, can it? Yep. Oh

31:39

yeah. Yeah. I mean, your

31:41

body makes insulin naturally. So

31:43

in a, in a healthy individual, you

31:46

know, your, your, your

31:48

pancreas produces insulin to help

31:51

convert the, the, the sugar

31:53

that you eat, you know,

31:55

into a form that your body can use for

31:57

energy. Right. Okay. Of

31:59

course, if you. don't use up all that

32:01

energy, you know, that sugar can be stored

32:04

as fat. Okay. Um,

32:07

if your body is doing that on its own,

32:10

uh, then

32:12

it's regulated your blood sugar

32:14

by giving somebody a

32:16

dose of insulin. You

32:18

can drop their blood sugar

32:21

entirely too low. Okay.

32:24

Which could kick them into shock.

32:27

Yep. Um, and

32:29

you know, it could severely, uh,

32:33

damage their, uh, their

32:35

internal organs, their brain, um, you

32:39

know, you know, you think

32:41

about all the problems that diabetes can

32:43

cause. Okay. So

32:46

if you do the reverse of that, you

32:49

can get a lot of the same problems.

32:51

Just, you know, immediate,

32:54

you know, so, and, and like you said,

32:56

listen, I, unfortunately

32:58

in my career, um, I,

33:02

I knew, I personally knew

33:04

a nurse who took her

33:07

own life by injecting

33:09

insulin. Okay.

33:12

So it's serious.

33:14

Yeah. I mean, you know, just shooting

33:17

people up with insulin, isn't this like,

33:19

Oh, well, you know, this'll help. Yeah.

33:22

Are you sure? Yeah. And,

33:26

and like you said, it messes with your brain

33:28

too. And I

33:30

know from firsthand experience from a family

33:32

member that until she

33:34

got. Insulin, she

33:37

was having cognitive issues and we

33:39

didn't know what was causing it.

33:42

We thought it was something else, but when she

33:44

started getting insulin shots, some

33:47

of that cognition came back because the

33:49

blood sugar was off. Was too

33:52

high sugar. Yeah. Blood sugar can

33:54

cause some crazy stuff to

33:56

happen. Yeah. And so

33:59

if. If you're doing

34:01

quote insulin therapy with people

34:04

in, I'll say

34:07

uncontrolled manners, even though this

34:09

was a hospital, I'll say

34:11

it's uncontrolled. It

34:14

can cause some serious damage to the

34:16

patient internally,

34:20

mentally, whatever.

34:23

And I think some, some of

34:25

these situations, everybody understands high blood

34:27

sugar. That's bad. High blood

34:30

pressure. That's bad. You know,

34:33

low extreme lows are just

34:35

as bad. Yeah. You know, your

34:38

blood pressure bottoms out. That's bad. Your

34:40

blood sugar bottoms out. It's very, very

34:42

bad. Yep. And I, I

34:44

know I have

34:47

a thing that when I, when I haven't eaten in

34:49

a while, my blood sugar will drop and

34:51

I can tell by my mood. Oh

34:53

yeah. You get angry. Yeah.

34:56

Yep. And mine's like, uh, how

35:00

would you say hunger rage? It's

35:02

more than hangry. It's

35:05

like, I get, I get really pissy. I

35:08

turn into a really pissy person

35:10

when I'm, when my blood sugar

35:12

drops. So you'd be good for that

35:14

Snickers commercial, you know, yeah. Yep.

35:17

So who would I be talking to? Who,

35:20

who would I be sitting there? What celebrity would I

35:22

be talking to? Mathy and bitchy

35:25

and pissy, you know, and

35:27

then, then they would eat a Snickers and it'd go

35:29

back to Adam. I'm

35:32

going to not say anything cause I don't want to get in

35:34

trouble. You

35:37

as a listener can, can figure that out, but I

35:39

don't, I don't want to get

35:42

myself in trouble. What celebrity would

35:44

star in the graveyard tales Snickers

35:46

commercial? Yeah. And

35:48

play me when I've turned into, uh, the

35:53

raging Salk or whatever.

35:57

The incredible Salk. So

36:03

we talked about hydrotherapy and I

36:06

wasn't able to find exactly what

36:08

they considered hydrotherapy there because there

36:10

are so many different types of

36:13

hydrotherapy. But what

36:15

they had there, I know, were

36:17

giant tubs and vats of water.

36:20

Yep. So I can only think

36:23

there probably weren't good things

36:27

considered hydrotherapy. No, and

36:30

it was used in several different ways.

36:32

You know, just traditionally, you know,

36:36

these people would be placed in, you

36:39

know, essentially freezing

36:41

cold water. Okay? So

36:44

like celebrities do now. Yeah, like people

36:46

do now. But the problem was is

36:48

that they weren't doing this voluntarily. Right.

36:51

It certainly wasn't comfortable and

36:54

oftentimes they would

36:56

be in there for far longer than they

36:58

should have been, you know. The

37:01

hypothermic states. Yeah. And then

37:03

in other cases, they

37:08

would submerge people in

37:10

water, you know, leaving them just out

37:12

where their face was exposed, and

37:15

they would pass a low

37:17

voltage electric current through

37:20

the water. Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

37:24

Which, you know, that

37:27

can be extraordinarily dangerous too. I mean,

37:29

you know, your finger twitches and all

37:31

of a sudden you've electrocuted somebody that's

37:34

in your hydrotherapy tub. And

37:37

there is a story

37:39

about a young

37:41

girl. Harmonia Kia-Sane. You got it.

37:43

Who was 10 years old.

37:46

Do I need to read ahead of,

37:48

you know, Adam's notes? I'm stepping on

37:51

everything for him tonight. Jeez. So

37:55

yeah, with the, with the hydrotherapy thing, there

37:57

are records at the hospital that say a.

38:00

year old patient named Harmonia

38:02

Kia Sane drowned

38:04

during one of the hydrotherapy sessions.

38:07

So I'm assuming it's like what Matt

38:09

was saying. She's there for too

38:11

long. And either they

38:14

walked away and she

38:16

drowned because she was hypothermic or

38:18

they stunned her

38:21

with the electricity that Matt was

38:23

talking about and went

38:26

under and she drowned. Alright

38:31

Matt, so let's talk about a new

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yeah that sounds good. It's going to

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it's so expensive. Oh yeah. I mean, it

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That's a good deal. I've

42:49

heard a couple of different

42:54

theories maybe or at least what

42:56

they've deduced. I think

42:58

at the end of the day, she

43:00

was left unattended. Yeah,

43:03

that makes sense. So from

43:05

only 35 patients that they had in 1839, the complex grew to

43:07

about 10,000 residents at

43:13

its peak during the Great Depression in the early 1930s.

43:17

So I know they had 78 buildings but

43:20

10,000 patients,

43:25

that's not including the staff. So

43:28

you can only imagine what they had

43:30

there. I've been through small towns that had less

43:32

people. Yeah, no

43:35

joke. This

43:38

was basically a small town in and of

43:40

itself with everything it had. Yeah, it sure

43:42

was. Now,

43:45

with this many patients, as we alluded

43:47

to before, the staff became overwhelmed and

43:49

overworked so patient treatment suffered. They

43:52

were neglected and many died due to

43:55

this. In the 1940s, over 8,000 people died. people

44:00

died which averaged out to about

44:02

two people per day in the

44:06

1940s. That

44:10

is a lot for

44:12

this small end

44:15

quotes for this medium

44:18

large facility. Two

44:23

people per day during the 1940s.

44:26

That is a ton. The

44:28

facility they say would become a place

44:30

of fear, a sanitarium

44:33

of torment for those with

44:35

mental health issues. It wasn't a

44:37

refuge, it wasn't a place to get better,

44:40

it was a place that you

44:42

got put in and

44:44

were fearful and tormented the

44:46

entire time. There

44:49

were patients there in such a desperate

44:51

state to get out that many of

44:53

them committed suicide. Some

44:56

through hangings, some jumped

44:58

from third, fourth and fifth floor

45:00

windows just to

45:03

not have to be at

45:05

LOEs anymore. One

45:08

of the problems with it

45:10

is during the times, we've talked about

45:12

this at other things, you

45:15

were put in there for some stuff

45:18

that nowadays we would go, are

45:20

you out of your mind? Right.

45:24

Really? How many unfaithful women

45:26

were committed by their husbands? Masturbation

45:31

was once considered a confinable

45:33

mental illness. Matt,

45:37

you'd have been locked up. She's

45:40

just seen that one coming. That's

45:43

what she said. I couldn't help it. I'm

45:45

sorry. I guess it depends

45:48

on where you're doing it. Yeah,

45:50

that's gross. That's gross. Now, most

45:52

of the complex was

45:54

demolished. after

46:00

it closed in 1984 due to funding

46:03

issues, but the D building

46:05

remains. The current

46:07

owner, John Hambrick, he

46:11

bought the property from the city. Apparently,

46:15

he knew some of the

46:17

higher-ups in Wayne County. They

46:22

approached him and they knew he

46:24

was into real estate and stuff. They said, do

46:26

you want to buy one of our old buildings? You

46:29

can get it off our hands. It just

46:32

needs a little bit of fixing up. You'll

46:35

be able to do it in no time. He said, sure. They

46:38

sold it to him for

46:40

a whopping $1. Yeah, $1. Now,

46:46

they were obviously trying to get it off their

46:48

hands. Oh, yeah. But the

46:50

funniest part to me,

46:53

they didn't tell him anything about what

46:55

was going on here. Nothing. Nothing.

46:59

And you know what?

47:05

In all fairness to the county, they

47:07

may not have known because they sure

47:09

weren't doing any upkeep on this

47:11

building. That's true. At

47:14

least in the pictures that I've seen and in

47:16

the videos I've watched, it did not appear that

47:19

they were doing— I

47:21

mean, they were probably cutting the grass and making

47:25

sure that was still—all of that was

47:27

done. The

47:29

place wasn't just completely falling down.

47:32

They weren't vagrants living in it or anything. Exactly. But

47:36

when John Hamrick first went and looked at

47:38

the property before

47:40

he bought it in 2018, he said they walked in to blaring

47:44

fire alarms. Okay?

47:51

They went up to

47:54

the top three floors that

47:57

had basically been sealed off since 1984.

48:00

Oh, that had to smell

48:02

great. Yeah. And they found a flickering light

48:04

at the end of the hallway. So,

48:08

you know, you're kind of

48:10

like, Oh, that's weird.

48:12

You know, but maybe, you know,

48:15

maybe these alarms picked up on that

48:17

as a signature. Who knows? But

48:19

that was kind of a, that should have been a red

48:22

flag and it may not have been. Right.

48:26

But you know, they, so he

48:28

gets, he gets his place and it

48:31

was, man, it was a liability

48:33

from the get go and,

48:36

and John and his co-owner, Adam

48:38

Hoffman, they both knew it. So

48:41

when John was asked by a

48:44

friend, if he could do a

48:46

paranormal investigation, the guys

48:48

were like, why the hell not? You know, go

48:50

for it. You know, knock yourselves out. Um,

48:54

because they said they figured it was

48:56

harmless. But later

48:58

on, both Adam and John worried

49:01

that they may have quote, kicked

49:03

a hornet's nest. Oh

49:06

yeah. Um, by, by

49:08

stirring up whatever

49:10

was there. Mm-hmm. And

49:12

I thought about this and I thought,

49:14

hmm, this

49:16

could be like if a tree falls in the

49:18

woods kind of deal. Sure. Yeah,

49:21

that's true. If, if, if, if a

49:23

house is haunted and there's no humans

49:25

there to be haunted by it, you

49:28

know, is it really haunted? You

49:30

know, does the energy of

49:33

people beginning to

49:35

come in there help

49:37

stir up the haunting? Yeah.

49:40

I mean, can you imagine it's, they're just going

49:42

about their normal day, you know,

49:44

the spirits walking around and all of a sudden there's humans in

49:46

the way. Mm-hmm. You

49:48

know, I don't, I don't really feel like

49:50

it's like the television show Ghosts where

49:54

they're all hanging out for centuries, you know,

49:56

and they become friends and stuff. Right. They

49:58

have their own rooms. I don't think. it's

50:00

that way. That makes good

50:02

television, but I don't really think that's how it

50:04

works. But

50:07

John believes that since opening the building to

50:09

the public, the activity really

50:11

kicked into high gear. Now,

50:15

John recalls, and later

50:17

says this was a mistake,

50:19

but who knew? He

50:23

recalls allowing his daughter to

50:25

go and check out the building. Now, he went

50:27

with her, because I

50:30

think she said she was like 13 when

50:32

he bought this place. So you're not going

50:35

to let your 13-year-old go wander around in

50:37

a abandoned building. So he was there, but

50:40

she says that when

50:42

she got to the fifth floor,

50:45

the fifth floor was

50:47

where the maximum security unit was.

50:51

And so when she got on that fifth floor, something

50:54

pulled her hair, pulled

50:56

her hair hard enough that she noticed. And

50:59

she spun around to see

51:02

nobody standing behind her. Of

51:05

course, this terrified her. She started

51:07

screaming. John comes running up, wondering

51:10

what's going on. And

51:12

she tells him this. And I

51:14

mean, look, it's one thing

51:16

if you and your buddy are there

51:18

and you run up, your buddy's screaming,

51:20

it's another thing when it's your child. And if

51:23

it's a father and daughter, let me tell you

51:25

something. Being the

51:27

father of four daughters, yeah,

51:30

I mean, you immediately

51:33

are ready to, I'm going to fight whatever's up

51:35

here. Exactly. And

51:37

then you do what John did. You've

51:40

got, why did I let her into

51:42

this situation? So here

51:44

he is. He now owns this building. And

51:46

now something like this has happened. I mean,

51:49

as a dad, that's got to hit you right in the pit

51:51

of the stomach. Oh, I'm sure.

51:53

Yeah. And I watched an interview

51:56

where his daughter...

52:00

Yvonne, where

52:02

she is describing this particular experience,

52:05

and she's had her fair share.

52:08

But this first experience she

52:10

had, you can watch her

52:12

on camera, and her hands

52:15

are fidgety. You can see her

52:17

eyes. You can see

52:19

the fear in

52:21

her retelling this

52:23

story. She

52:26

is transported back there to when

52:28

that happens. That's always one of the

52:30

things that I look for

52:33

when I'm seeing somebody relate a

52:36

story of a haunting, especially one that was

52:38

scary. Are

52:42

they making this up? Are

52:45

they just telling me something? Just

52:47

like I could tell you that I could

52:49

read you a passage from a book? Are

52:53

they thinking back and telling

52:55

you the story from

52:58

re-experiencing it in their brain? When

53:01

you see somebody do that, and

53:04

you begin to see those visceral reactions

53:06

to the emotions that they had back

53:09

at that time, you

53:11

know they're telling

53:13

the truth. You

53:15

may not know exactly what they

53:17

experienced, but you can sure

53:19

tell that whatever it was was

53:22

100% real, and

53:24

they felt it, and they

53:27

believe it, and it terrified them. You

53:29

can see that with

53:31

her telling this story. John

53:35

says when he initially purchased the

53:37

property, he was a skeptic.

53:40

In fact, he said the

53:43

idea of ghosts or paranormal

53:45

stuff didn't even factor into

53:47

his day-to-day. He

53:50

wasn't a fan of those kind

53:52

of deals like Adam and I.

53:54

He wasn't one that researched

53:56

it or talked about it. It

53:59

didn't factor into his day-to-day. into his day. He

54:03

was a skeptic because he never really pondered

54:05

on it. Like

54:08

Adam said earlier, he says he had

54:11

no idea that this place was supposedly

54:13

haunted. They

54:15

may not have known it either when they sold it to him. But

54:19

now, Hambrick has been quoted

54:21

as calling Eloise the

54:24

holy grail of paranormal activity.

54:29

As I said earlier, the fifth floor is where

54:31

the maximum security unit was and it is by

54:43

far the most active, with

54:46

visitors often reporting here in

54:48

screams and even singing coming

54:50

from empty rooms. Hambrick

54:53

says that every time he goes up there,

54:55

he begins to feel what he describes as

54:58

a heaviness and then he

55:00

starts to feel lightheaded and will

55:03

inevitably develop a headache. So,

55:06

again, those are

55:08

visceral reactions. You

55:11

get in a situation that you don't feel

55:13

100% comfortable or safe,

55:15

your body tells you. Of

55:19

the spirits that have been seen up

55:21

here, two ghostly

55:23

children have been seen

55:25

running through the hallway. But

55:29

typically when people see them, they will turn

55:31

a corner and then they disappear. Now

55:35

it is... Yeah, go ahead. You

55:40

think, yeah, there were children

55:43

at this place because some

55:45

were at the poor house, some were

55:49

institutionalized for different things.

55:53

But like I've said before,

55:55

the child ghost is... creepier

56:00

to me than demonic

56:02

things or anything like that.

56:05

And I think it's just the fact that

56:07

they're kids. Why are they

56:09

still here? And

56:13

because the demonic things have

56:15

been known to act like

56:17

children to

56:19

draw you in and make you feel

56:21

comfortable. So on

56:26

top of everything else with this place, of

56:28

course, it has to have children

56:30

there. Yeah. Yeah. Now,

56:34

the spirits of these two that

56:36

are seen are assumed

56:38

to have been, this is

56:41

inmates. I can't imagine, you

56:44

know, that children being inmates. Most

56:46

likely, they're parents or a

56:48

parent were inmates. Or

56:51

they may have been there because of some

56:55

illness, something like that. But

57:01

they could have been there when –

57:03

I guess Adam said when it was the poor

57:05

house. Orphan

57:08

children were often held

57:11

there until they were adopted or

57:13

they died. So

57:17

the unfortunate death of a child at LOEs

57:20

probably occurred more than anyone wants to think

57:22

about. Yeah. Yeah.

57:27

You know, that would have been a really tough life to

57:29

be a kid. You know,

57:31

you're there. There's all these adults,

57:34

you know, the thousands of people. And

57:37

a lot of them have these just horrible

57:39

mental illnesses. You know,

57:43

it just – I mean, I can't even

57:45

fathom what a childhood would be like there.

57:49

But it's possible that now their

57:52

spirits live on and live out

57:54

their childhood without

57:57

the fear that they had when they were alive. Now,

58:02

there is another spirit. This

58:04

one is a lady that appears as

58:07

a white vapor and

58:09

she has been seen manifesting within one

58:11

of the buildings that are still standing,

58:14

but even her voice has been recorded

58:16

as she whispers help me. Okay,

58:20

now I did

58:22

not see any video or

58:25

photographic evidence of this particular one, but

58:28

the help me EVPs are fairly

58:30

common. The help means coming from

58:32

the spirit box, but

58:35

even like just

58:37

regular audible voices and

58:42

words being said, like I said earlier,

58:44

singing and screams have been heard. But

58:49

it's assumed that she's a residual spirit

58:52

and that her impression

58:54

has just been seared into the

58:57

building itself, that stone tape theory,

58:59

someone that was there for so

59:01

long and they're just tortured

59:04

and had this

59:06

miserable existence. All

59:09

that negativity just kind of pressed

59:11

their spirit right

59:14

there into the physical

59:16

building. Now,

59:19

there is another ghost that is commonly seen

59:22

and it is that of a doctor. And

59:25

this particular spirit is said to

59:27

prowl the halls of the facility

59:31

almost as if he's still searching

59:34

for unfortunate patients to practice his

59:37

scientific methods on. Now,

59:41

as Adam said, in the 1930s, lobotomies

59:43

were beginning to be performed. And

59:47

we've talked about this process. It's pretty

59:49

gruesome. I mean, essentially a doctor would

59:51

hammer a surgical instrument through the skull

59:53

and into the brain with

59:55

the hopes of cutting off the negative impulses.

59:58

A lot of patients die. a result

1:00:00

of the operation and others would

1:00:03

later commit suicide. Some

1:00:05

were left severely brain damaged. All

1:00:08

of this happened within the Eloise Complex

1:00:11

and a lot of

1:00:14

people believe that this spirit of

1:00:16

this doctor is just a testament to

1:00:18

those horrific treatments.

1:00:21

Yeah, I've heard, I think it

1:00:23

was John saying

1:00:26

he can almost

1:00:28

guarantee there's somebody still

1:00:30

there that is still wanting

1:00:32

to do harm to people and

1:00:35

maybe it's that doctor that you're talking

1:00:37

about. Yeah,

1:00:42

so John Hambrick, he believes

1:00:44

that there is an entity

1:00:49

in the facility that

1:00:51

seeks to do harm. And

1:00:55

he thinks maybe it has

1:00:57

been there a long time.

1:01:00

It is possible that this could be the spirit

1:01:03

of that doctor. If

1:01:05

that doctor

1:01:07

truly was

1:01:09

one of the physicians that put patients

1:01:12

through this and

1:01:14

his spirit is lingering around, that

1:01:16

could give off those kind of

1:01:18

vibes of whatever is

1:01:20

here is looking to

1:01:22

harm people. Whatever they

1:01:24

want, it's not good.

1:01:29

Some people feel like that the

1:01:32

spirit of the doctor may

1:01:34

linger there because he's tormented by the

1:01:36

ghosts of the patients that he practiced

1:01:39

on. But

1:01:41

whatever the case, he is a part

1:01:44

of a long list of spirits that

1:01:46

still reside in Eloise. Now,

1:01:49

one of the most common is

1:01:52

that people have reported looking down the

1:01:54

fifth floor hallway at night

1:01:56

and seeing the silhouette of a nurse

1:01:59

peer out of Eloise. window, like

1:02:02

a window in a door, or like,

1:02:05

you know, hospitals will have those half hallways and

1:02:07

then have glass. It's that at the end of

1:02:09

the hallway. So it's not like she's outside. Right.

1:02:13

And it just looks like she's doing rounds

1:02:15

and notices somebody at the end of the

1:02:17

hallway and just kind of looks and

1:02:20

then goes on. Which

1:02:24

would be creepy to see. Yeah. And

1:02:27

so many people have seen this. You

1:02:29

know, so many people have gone in there

1:02:31

and witnessed this particular thing. Some

1:02:36

have even reported seeing a figure

1:02:38

drenched in water, which is possibly

1:02:40

a reminder of when the

1:02:42

hydrotherapy was very common at

1:02:45

LOEs. But

1:02:47

oftentimes, as I said, a patient against their

1:02:49

will would be placed into a pool of

1:02:51

water, often with their

1:02:53

arms and legs restrained. Now

1:02:57

there's other times that people report

1:02:59

seeing a phantom that's

1:03:01

wearing a smock stained with blood,

1:03:04

presumably from a lobotomy.

1:03:07

Yeah. That's

1:03:10

pretty graphic. Yeah,

1:03:12

that would, that would be, that's something

1:03:14

you, you don't hear

1:03:17

often that there is an entity

1:03:21

that you still see stained with blood

1:03:23

like they just came out of surgery

1:03:25

or whatever. You don't

1:03:27

hear about that. You don't hear about

1:03:29

the blood usually in concerts. Full color,

1:03:31

you know, enough detail to

1:03:33

make out blood. You

1:03:37

know, that's, yeah, that's not something

1:03:39

we hear a lot. Now

1:03:42

Ryan Eberhart, who runs

1:03:44

the Westland Historic Village Park,

1:03:47

which is a museum dedicated to

1:03:50

the history of LOEs, the

1:03:52

patient history, not the haunted history.

1:03:55

Yeah. He tells a very interesting

1:03:57

story about his experience inside the asylum.

1:04:01

The museum had an old photo

1:04:03

of patients sitting in a room

1:04:06

watching television, and television

1:04:08

therapy was apparently a very popular

1:04:10

treatment. I've

1:04:13

done some television therapy. Yeah,

1:04:16

me too. Now Ryan, who

1:04:18

was hoping to be able to find the

1:04:20

room where the photo was taken, decided

1:04:22

to wander around the building on his own.

1:04:27

But are you kidding me? No

1:04:29

thanks. But while walking through the third

1:04:32

floor, he recalls the

1:04:34

sensation of a finger poking him in

1:04:36

the middle of his back. But

1:04:39

instead of a hard poke like, hey,

1:04:42

what are you doing here? He

1:04:44

said the feeling lasted and

1:04:47

reports that it was almost pushing him

1:04:49

in the direction that he needed to

1:04:51

go. Having

1:04:53

no idea where he was, he

1:04:56

suddenly realized that he had been led

1:04:58

into the room from the photo. By

1:05:02

holding up the photo, comparing the

1:05:05

environment. Yeah. So

1:05:07

something he feels, something led

1:05:10

him to that room because

1:05:13

he's standing there with this photo trying to

1:05:15

compare it to his surroundings and see if

1:05:17

this is the right room. Whatever

1:05:20

entity that helped him figured out that's

1:05:22

what he was doing and pushed him

1:05:24

there. That's also

1:05:26

another one you don't hear of. Yeah.

1:05:29

When I heard this story, this is one

1:05:32

of these that it's

1:05:34

odd enough to

1:05:37

be believable. It

1:05:42

seems so unusual,

1:05:44

so outside of what

1:05:47

people would describe

1:05:49

in a paranormal

1:05:51

experience that you just, you

1:05:53

want to believe it. But

1:05:55

when you see Ryan tell the story on

1:05:58

video, you totally. believe it because

1:06:00

he's kind of like this

1:06:03

is exactly what happened to me you

1:06:05

know it's really weird you know and that's I

1:06:07

mean that's kind of how I would be but

1:06:09

I think the first poke would have probably sent

1:06:12

me moving you know yeah yeah

1:06:15

yeah now I don't think

1:06:17

it would have taken us pushing it

1:06:19

would have been pushed and I'd have

1:06:21

been out I don't know he didn't

1:06:23

really say how far along it pushed

1:06:25

him okay hopefully

1:06:28

he wasn't far but

1:06:30

if it's going down the hallway and he's

1:06:32

like what is going on he's pushing him

1:06:34

towards the elevator and he's like wait a

1:06:36

minute wait a minute wait a minute yep

1:06:40

this is out of service no now

1:06:43

they uh hamburg has had several contractors

1:06:46

that have come in and do some

1:06:48

work on the building for him and

1:06:51

they they've assisted with maintenance and and

1:06:53

just you know this is an

1:06:55

old building you know things you know have got

1:06:58

to be you know you don't want people coming

1:07:00

in and it being unsafe but

1:07:04

some of the contractors have had some

1:07:06

unfriendly encounters in the basement and

1:07:09

one one contractor named Jesse Kasem

1:07:12

reports that he was there handling

1:07:15

some odd jobs and was pushed

1:07:17

down a flight of metal stairs

1:07:21

oh yeah I remember hearing about yeah

1:07:23

so he just he said he just

1:07:25

felt it shove him from behind and

1:07:28

push him down this flight of stairs he was walking

1:07:30

towards you know how angry I'd

1:07:32

be oh yeah I'm I'm

1:07:35

clumsy enough to fall down these stairs on my

1:07:37

own I don't need some supernatural

1:07:39

help yeah to break my leg well and

1:07:41

the the bad thing about

1:07:43

it when he tells the story you can

1:07:46

tell you know he's like this

1:07:48

this could have killed me you

1:07:50

know um it's not

1:07:52

like a super tall flight of stairs

1:07:54

but it's those metal stairs that you

1:07:57

see in like industrial

1:07:59

environment that they're usually

1:08:01

painted yellow. They

1:08:03

have the the hole. Diamond

1:08:05

pattern or whatever on there. Have you

1:08:08

seen what there's actual holes it looks

1:08:10

like have been punched from the underside

1:08:12

so there's a kind

1:08:14

of a sharp grippy area on

1:08:18

those steps so you won't slip in case

1:08:20

they get wet. Yeah. Yeah

1:08:22

that's what they look like. I mean they could

1:08:24

tear you up. Oh

1:08:27

yeah. But not only that. Okay.

1:08:30

One person falls down these steps and

1:08:32

you think he

1:08:34

felt like he got pushed. The door

1:08:36

probably you know. He's making an excuse

1:08:39

for being clumsy. Yeah. Yeah. But

1:08:42

not only did he feel it. One

1:08:45

of his co-workers experienced the same thing

1:08:47

at a different time on the same

1:08:49

flight of stairs. And

1:08:51

both men claim they did

1:08:54

not trip. And the

1:08:56

story behind it is that a

1:08:58

former maintenance man exists

1:09:00

in the basement and he's just

1:09:02

there to kind of make sure the boiler is

1:09:05

okay. So he

1:09:07

doesn't want people coming down there and messing around.

1:09:10

Yeah. What is a contractor gonna come down

1:09:12

there and do? Mess around.

1:09:14

Mess around. Yeah. And

1:09:16

any that you know they kind of

1:09:18

said yeah. I mean this is what

1:09:20

the story is and this is what

1:09:22

happened to me. So I

1:09:25

mean just one after another after another.

1:09:29

But here is where it really

1:09:32

begins to get scary. If it hasn't

1:09:34

already it's also believed

1:09:38

that there this dark

1:09:40

entity resides in the asylum that

1:09:43

draws pleasure from torturing

1:09:45

people. This is what I was talking

1:09:47

about earlier that it might be this

1:09:50

physician. But

1:09:52

a lot of people feel like this is

1:09:54

not a former doctor or patient. That

1:09:57

this is an evil presence that

1:09:59

resided in the facility, possibly

1:10:01

while it was an operation, potentially

1:10:05

affecting the souls that worked,

1:10:07

lived, and died there. We

1:10:12

have brought up things like this in other

1:10:15

asylums where the

1:10:17

negative energy didn't just leave

1:10:20

a lasting mark, it

1:10:23

actually attracted other

1:10:27

entities, other dark

1:10:29

entities. I

1:10:32

think that's a possibility here, that

1:10:35

maybe there was something and that it

1:10:37

fed off of these poor individuals that

1:10:39

were there and

1:10:42

having to endure this kind of torture.

1:10:45

It may have affected the

1:10:47

physicians and the staff there

1:10:49

that helped facilitate some

1:10:51

of these horrific treatments. During

1:10:56

an episode of Expedition X, Josh

1:10:59

Gates, who we've mentioned on this show many times,

1:11:05

asked the tour guide who just happened to

1:11:07

be Yvonne, John Hambrick's daughter, who I mentioned

1:11:10

earlier, to tell

1:11:12

one of her other experiences. Yvonne

1:11:15

says that on her first night of

1:11:19

actually working in there, she

1:11:21

was given a tour to around 15 people. The

1:11:25

group had been dismissed to investigate on their

1:11:27

own and Yvonne reached for her radio to

1:11:29

tell her manager, hey, all the members of

1:11:31

the tour are accounted for. She

1:11:34

states that as she raised her radio, she

1:11:36

had the sensation of a hand on the

1:11:38

top of her head with a

1:11:41

feeling that she described as, quote, breaking

1:11:44

through, which she

1:11:46

doesn't expound on that. But

1:11:50

I kind of was like, you felt it

1:11:52

touch your head and what, like, kind of

1:11:54

break through, like, go

1:11:57

into you. That's

1:11:59

kind of what I guessed. And it's

1:12:02

so weird. I mean,

1:12:05

how would you know what something like that felt

1:12:07

like until you felt it and then thought, oh,

1:12:09

God, is this coming

1:12:11

through my head? And

1:12:15

of course, this was absolutely terrifying. And

1:12:19

she started screaming, crying, and she's on

1:12:21

the radio calling for her dad. Of

1:12:24

course, John comes up there immediately. You

1:12:30

know, when somebody tells you something like this

1:12:33

and they're just hysterical, I

1:12:35

mean, I don't

1:12:38

even know what I would do if somebody told me that

1:12:41

that just happened to them. You

1:12:43

know, because I'd want to be like, holy

1:12:45

cow, that's amazing. It's crazy. Are

1:12:49

you OK instead of being like, are you

1:12:51

OK? You know what I mean? Right. Yeah.

1:12:54

Yeah, I would want to know

1:12:56

the whole story, everything. I

1:13:00

would assume if they were talking to me, they were still

1:13:02

fine. Yeah, it's like

1:13:04

like Dan Aykroyd running up to Bill

1:13:07

Murray and Ghost Musters. Actual

1:13:10

physical contact. That's great. He's laying

1:13:12

there in the floor like, help me.

1:13:16

Yep. Yep. He's

1:13:18

like, this is great. But

1:13:22

Yvonne does go on to explain that

1:13:26

other women have experienced similar things

1:13:28

on the fifth floor. And

1:13:30

so it kind of leads them

1:13:32

to believe that whatever is responsible

1:13:34

tends to target female visitors. Now,

1:13:38

that isn't the only horrific

1:13:40

encounter Yvonne has had. She

1:13:43

explains on multiple occasions she has felt

1:13:45

as if she was being choked. See,

1:13:49

that's too much. Yeah. And

1:13:52

when asked to describe the feeling,

1:13:54

she says it's the actual sensation

1:13:56

of hands around her throat trying

1:13:58

to choke her. But

1:14:01

this is not

1:14:03

an uncommon occurrence on

1:14:05

that maximum security floor and it's so

1:14:07

common that they've nicknamed

1:14:09

this spirit the choker. Apropos.

1:14:14

Apropos, you know. Hey,

1:14:17

this is a smeller, this is a singer, this

1:14:19

is the choker, you know. This is the choker. I'm

1:14:23

a choker. I'm a smoker. That's

1:14:25

right. I'm a ghost in

1:14:28

Eloise. There

1:14:31

is another common

1:14:33

entity encountered that is called

1:14:36

the creeper. They

1:14:39

really got creative on these names. They

1:14:41

sure did. The creeper. Come on, John. Let

1:14:44

Matt and I name these things for you. Yeah,

1:14:46

come on. We can come up with better stuff.

1:14:48

We can name some ghosts, man. I'm telling

1:14:50

you. But the creeper is named

1:14:52

because it never just walks down the hall.

1:14:56

It always seems to scurry towards you

1:14:58

crawling along the walls and the ceiling.

1:15:01

The hand bricks describe it as a shadow

1:15:03

and they've witnessed it not only on the

1:15:06

fifth floor but also in the basement. Other

1:15:09

shadow figures are commonly seen as

1:15:11

well across the building, even

1:15:14

in the elevators, which haven't been operational

1:15:16

for over 15 years. Now,

1:15:21

during the actual investigation by Josh

1:15:23

Gates and his team, Jessica

1:15:25

sees the figure of a woman peek

1:15:27

around the corner at them. The

1:15:30

group sets up sensors to pick

1:15:32

up any movement or electromagnetic changes

1:15:35

and aims the SLS camera. That's

1:15:37

the camera that shows the little

1:15:39

stick figure at

1:15:42

the same spot where the figure appeared. As

1:15:45

if on cue a

1:15:47

figure appears on the camera and

1:15:50

it sets off that REM pod. Yep.

1:15:54

I mean... And that's,

1:15:56

to me, that's key what

1:15:58

they did. One

1:16:02

piece of equipment you

1:16:04

can say okay that's cool. But

1:16:06

if you get activity in the

1:16:09

same area on two different cameras

1:16:12

that verify the other, then

1:16:14

you can say okay something's happening. Something

1:16:18

crazy is happening. And like

1:16:20

you said, they got SLS camera and

1:16:22

REM pod in the same area. So

1:16:25

to me, they corroborate

1:16:27

each other and they say yep, something's

1:16:29

going on there. Yeah. Yeah. It's

1:16:35

just – I mean we – Adam

1:16:37

and I have gotten to play with –

1:16:39

well, kind of play with an SLS camera.

1:16:43

We've seen what the results can be. I

1:16:48

wish when we had done that

1:16:51

that we had a device that

1:16:54

could have also provided some

1:16:56

feedback that something was there. Because

1:16:59

it was incredibly cool when

1:17:01

we did it. Yeah, it was. And

1:17:06

if there was another piece of equipment that could

1:17:08

have monitored electromagnetic

1:17:10

activity or some

1:17:13

type of proximity –

1:17:16

Yeah, REM pod, EMF detector

1:17:18

or something. Yeah, something like

1:17:21

that at the time, that

1:17:23

would have just – that would have blown us away.

1:17:26

And we were fairly blown away as it

1:17:28

was. But that would have – after seeing

1:17:31

that, I thought man, if we'd

1:17:33

have had that when we did that over there at

1:17:35

the Thomas house, man, that would have been so cool.

1:17:38

Yep. But while

1:17:40

they're standing out there, they hear a noise

1:17:43

from the elevator shaft, like a big bang.

1:17:48

And it's funny, the

1:17:51

camera shakes when you hear the bang.

1:17:54

So it makes me – it almost looks

1:17:56

like, dang, that thing really shook all of them. And

1:17:58

I think it just scared the camera. cameraman. Yeah,

1:18:01

I like that he just jumped. He's

1:18:04

like, crap! I'm rewatching it and I'm seeing

1:18:06

that and I'm texting Adam, what do you

1:18:08

think about being a cameraman on a show

1:18:10

like this? You know? Yep. My

1:18:13

answer was nope. I

1:18:15

mean, you know, you name it,

1:18:17

you know, this Expedition X, Ghost

1:18:19

Adventures, Paranormal State, any

1:18:21

of those shows where there was

1:18:23

an unseen cameraman that his sole

1:18:26

job is to follow these people

1:18:28

around and try to document what's

1:18:31

going on. They're

1:18:33

always the one, they go

1:18:35

in first, you know? Mm-hmm. You

1:18:38

know? Because they got to catch

1:18:40

the host walking in. Right! So you go

1:18:42

into this creepy-ass building by yourself to watch

1:18:44

him open the door or down in

1:18:47

the cave first. You're

1:18:49

rappelling down first, don't know what's down

1:18:51

there yet. That's right. That's right. Here

1:18:54

you are. You're like, man, I'm just a camera guy.

1:18:58

I was like, I need to sign up for

1:19:00

this. You know? I

1:19:02

signed up to work for Discovery.

1:19:06

I thought I was going to be traveling

1:19:08

and going to cool places and watching some

1:19:11

dude eat. But no!

1:19:14

I'm standing here with cobwebs all

1:19:17

over me getting scared. I've

1:19:20

peed myself three times on this

1:19:22

one investigation. I

1:19:25

need hazard pay. Yeah. So,

1:19:30

they did something I've never seen. They

1:19:34

pull out rappelling equipment and

1:19:37

they go into the shaft. So

1:19:39

Josh and Phil gear up and actually

1:19:41

rappel from the fifth floor to the

1:19:44

third floor down the shaft. Now

1:19:47

while there, they audibly hear

1:19:49

a whistle, which, you know,

1:19:51

you hear on the

1:19:54

TV. You hear the whistle. They

1:19:57

hear a ding as if the... elevator

1:20:00

arrived at the correct floor, which again, the

1:20:02

elevators have not been operational in at least

1:20:04

15 years. Um,

1:20:07

they would have to have some type of power. Adam

1:20:10

and I were talking about this before we started the

1:20:12

show. Um, that

1:20:14

elevator ding is, it's

1:20:17

a very distinct sound. Yeah.

1:20:19

You know, when, when you hear it, you're like, that's

1:20:21

an elevator. You know,

1:20:24

I mean, you, you know, I could play a dozen dings,

1:20:26

you'd be able to pick out the one that was an

1:20:28

elevator. So you hear it and you

1:20:31

immediately go, that's an elevator. Um,

1:20:33

and then Jessica, who's up

1:20:35

above on the fifth floor, looking down in

1:20:38

the shaft turns on the spirit box so

1:20:40

they can start asking questions and they actually

1:20:42

get the word creeper. Um,

1:20:46

you know, I don't get too excited

1:20:48

about the spirit box things. I think they're cool. Um,

1:20:52

but I, it's, it's too hard for me

1:20:55

to think that you're not

1:20:57

just picking up feedback from one

1:21:00

of these frequencies that it's running through where you just

1:21:02

catch a word and then you're

1:21:04

wanting to hear something. It's

1:21:07

kind of like EVPs, you know, sometimes you just, you

1:21:09

want to hear it so bad. You hear something that

1:21:11

may not be there, but I do. I think it's

1:21:13

cool though. I'm torn

1:21:16

because I think

1:21:18

in a lot of situations, People

1:21:22

can make stuff up. Yeah.

1:21:24

That they hear, but then

1:21:27

there's a lot of other times that I hear it

1:21:29

too. And I'm like, how did, how did that pop

1:21:31

out of nowhere? And if it

1:21:33

sits for a long time without doing anything, and

1:21:36

then you ask a question and then it comes

1:21:38

back with an answer, then

1:21:40

I'm like, okay, all right. I believe it more.

1:21:42

Yeah. So for me, it

1:21:44

depends on the context. Yeah, absolutely.

1:21:48

Um, but one, one other part I

1:21:50

want to bring up from that show is, is

1:21:53

because there is this entity

1:21:55

that supposedly targets women, Jessica

1:21:57

volunteers to go to the fifth

1:21:59

floor. and antagonize this entity

1:22:01

while Josh and Phil monitor her

1:22:03

on the cameras from the third

1:22:05

floor. This

1:22:08

sounds like a terrible idea. But

1:22:11

after only a short time, Jessica shouts

1:22:13

and bends down in pain and

1:22:16

quickly the guys get upstairs and they

1:22:18

find a painful red area along the

1:22:20

side of Jessica's neck. Okay,

1:22:23

and it's not small. They show it

1:22:25

on camera. I mean, I've

1:22:29

never choked anybody, okay?

1:22:33

I've never been choked. So,

1:22:36

you know, this looks like what it would be. You

1:22:38

know, this looks

1:22:40

like the

1:22:45

redness that you would experience

1:22:47

if somebody put some hands around your neck.

1:22:49

And, you know, again, I

1:22:51

always say, you know, like these are

1:22:54

television shows, but, you know,

1:22:57

I respect the work that Josh Gates has done

1:22:59

in the past. I

1:23:02

don't believe that he is

1:23:05

of the mindset that

1:23:09

he wants to try to fool

1:23:11

you or pull the wool over your

1:23:13

eyes or, you

1:23:16

know, just subtly

1:23:18

embellish something small

1:23:21

and make it into something that

1:23:24

really isn't that big of a deal. But

1:23:26

he's one of a small handful that I

1:23:28

trust not to make stuff up for

1:23:31

TV purposes. Right. You know, he's

1:23:33

been in this kind of biz

1:23:35

for a long time, not just

1:23:37

ghosts, but, you know, cryptids and

1:23:40

an odd phenomenon and things like

1:23:43

that. You know, so I kind

1:23:46

of, I will

1:23:48

listen to what he says, but like Adam

1:23:50

said, there is a select few, you know,

1:23:54

that I will actually take notice. But,

1:23:58

you know, just kind of, We've

1:24:01

covered so much here about the hauntings

1:24:03

and LOEs. One thing that just stands

1:24:05

out is these

1:24:08

seem like really physical

1:24:10

haunts. People

1:24:14

are being touched, hair's being pulled,

1:24:16

people are being choked, pushed downstairs.

1:24:21

Way more physical than most places that

1:24:23

we discuss. Somebody

1:24:27

may feel something tug on their sleeve

1:24:29

or brush up against them. You

1:24:33

don't get multiple stories

1:24:35

of people being physically

1:24:37

assaulted. You

1:24:40

do here. Almost

1:24:43

every single person that goes in there

1:24:46

says they have something like that happening. I've

1:24:51

always said, I don't mind going

1:24:53

to haunted places. I love hearing

1:24:56

the stories. I just absolutely love

1:24:58

it. I

1:25:01

kind of draw the line at being

1:25:04

physically assaulted by a spirit. I

1:25:09

think that's it. If

1:25:14

I got pushed or shoved

1:25:16

or bitten or scratched or

1:25:18

choked or whatever, I'd be like,

1:25:20

okay, I'm done. I'm done with all this. What

1:25:23

about being goosed? I was

1:25:26

at one time at the old South Pittsburgh Hospital.

1:25:30

Exactly. Everybody got to

1:25:32

have a little fun. One

1:25:34

nurse. It

1:25:39

really makes me wonder if there's a connection

1:25:41

to the physicality of the hauntings there with

1:25:46

the medical torture that

1:25:49

went on, the suicides that occurred.

1:25:54

This didn't affect everyone. I

1:26:00

mean, even, even John Hambrick says that he had

1:26:02

family members that worked there. You

1:26:05

know, this is, this is really kind of restricted

1:26:07

to what was the mental asylum. And

1:26:15

with that maximum security floor being the most

1:26:18

active, you know, that's, those were probably the ones that

1:26:20

had the worst stuff done to them. Okay?

1:26:23

Yep. Probably. And

1:26:25

then, you know, I think that's a good thing. Okay?

1:26:28

Yep. Probably. And

1:26:30

then the 7,000 plus bodies that

1:26:32

are buried there, you

1:26:35

know, those, those spirits that may just

1:26:37

be stuck, you

1:26:40

know, that can't cross over. You

1:26:43

know, they had a violent death or an abrupt

1:26:46

death, and they're

1:26:48

just stuck there. They never, they

1:26:51

never had that proper burial. It

1:26:55

just, for whatever reason,

1:26:57

it's just trapped them within,

1:27:00

and that negative energy just

1:27:02

holds on to them. And

1:27:05

so that's why you get the

1:27:08

screams and the singing

1:27:11

and the EVPs and

1:27:13

the audible voices, the

1:27:15

footsteps and all of that. You

1:27:18

know, it's just all those spirits

1:27:20

just kind of stuck. And

1:27:23

it's also, I don't know how

1:27:25

you feel about this, Adam, but it

1:27:29

seems like these really

1:27:31

dark entities come

1:27:33

in and

1:27:37

they torment the other spirits that are there. On

1:27:39

top of the living, you know,

1:27:41

that come in to explore and to hunt,

1:27:44

you know, they oftentimes

1:27:46

torment those spirits

1:27:49

that are stuck just trying to

1:27:51

cross over. Yeah. Yep. And

1:27:54

I don't know if it's a, like the, the spirit

1:27:59

of the spirit of the spirit. spirit of somebody

1:28:03

that has become that evil

1:28:06

or was that evil in life so

1:28:09

they're doing that in death or if

1:28:12

it's like the

1:28:15

evil entity that has

1:28:18

been there for

1:28:20

decades making

1:28:23

it worse that is

1:28:25

keeping some of these souls there

1:28:28

and then using

1:28:31

that to the torture and

1:28:33

stuff to gain energy themselves.

1:28:37

I don't know which but something

1:28:40

like that happens. Absolutely.

1:28:42

I agree for a

1:28:44

building that old with the history that it

1:28:47

has, it would

1:28:50

appear that it is incredibly

1:28:52

on it. But

1:28:55

what do you guys think? We know we've got

1:28:57

a lot of listeners in Michigan. If

1:29:01

you know of LOEs and I'm

1:29:03

sure if you live in that area you

1:29:05

absolutely do. It seems like everybody up there

1:29:07

knows. Maybe

1:29:10

you've got some stories or you had some family

1:29:12

members that worked there when it was an operation.

1:29:16

Let us know and the best

1:29:18

place to do that is in our Facebook

1:29:20

group. It is a fantastic place to share

1:29:23

those experiences, those stories,

1:29:26

to ask questions. It is a

1:29:28

safe place. It is a private

1:29:30

group. Remember, you have to answer

1:29:32

those questions to get

1:29:34

in. We

1:29:37

want to keep out the bots. We

1:29:39

want to keep out the people that

1:29:41

aren't just looking to come in and

1:29:43

share and enjoy. We

1:29:46

don't want those. We want everyone to feel

1:29:48

like, hey, this is a cool place. I

1:29:50

can tell this story and people

1:29:52

want to hear it. They're not going to look

1:29:54

at me funny or call me a weirdo. They

1:29:57

just want to hear my great story and I

1:29:59

want to hear other peoples. So check us out.

1:30:03

You can look at our website

1:30:05

which is graveyardpodcast.com and there

1:30:07

you will find links to purchase Graveyard Tales

1:30:09

merchandise which is, you know, as cold as

1:30:12

it's been I may need another Graveyard Tales

1:30:14

hoodie to wear. But

1:30:17

you can listen to the show and

1:30:19

you can become a patron and don't

1:30:21

forget coming up

1:30:23

in about a

1:30:25

month. Okay? You're

1:30:27

going to be looking at our $10 patrons are going

1:30:30

to be looking at something big coming their way.

1:30:32

I think you're really going to enjoy it. So

1:30:34

if you've been thinking about it, you

1:30:37

know, the next few weeks is

1:30:39

a good time to jump in there. You're going

1:30:41

to be helping out the show. You're going to

1:30:43

get access to all of those past episodes and

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you're going to get to experience, you

1:30:48

know, our new big announcement coming

1:30:51

up in just a few weeks.

1:30:53

Man, this place crazy

1:30:55

dude. But yeah, I got

1:30:57

a new place on my list of I needs

1:31:00

to go there. But

1:31:03

fantastic. I really enjoyed researching

1:31:05

Eloise and

1:31:07

appreciate everybody listening. So until

1:31:10

next time, we'll save

1:31:12

you a seat in

1:31:14

the graveyard. See you soon.

1:31:55

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