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ROW500. Bbc

1:03

Sounds Music Radio podcasts,

1:07

Sunday. Afternoons, as I well

1:09

remember, were quiet time in the

1:11

mid Nineteen sixties. most shops was

1:13

shot in, the pubs were close,

1:16

but for pop music fans, that

1:18

was one voice that brought some

1:20

color and excitement to an otherwise

1:23

dreary afternoon. And. That voice

1:25

was Alan Freeman. I have

1:27

a pop because. It's.

1:33

Me again on Sunday at all

1:35

means go to Paul Allen Freeman or

1:37

Fluff as he was affectionately known.

1:39

lived his life in radio for over

1:41

forty years. He presented shows on Radio

1:44

Luxembourg, the B B C, Capital,

1:46

Radio Virgin Classic Happen, But it's that

1:48

long running association with a show pick

1:50

of the Pops that he's best

1:52

known: Dollars Day from Fifteen to Seventeen,

1:55

The Beatles from Thirteen to Eighty the

1:57

Most a Bit from Fourteen to

1:59

Six. and up go the shadows from

2:01

17 to 12 and Billy Fury from 18

2:04

to 14 and the rest will meet in Unit 1 that

2:06

chart newcomers. Unit 2 will

2:08

be the new releases. Unit 3 will

2:10

always be the pick of the pops LP,

2:13

starting Unit 4, this week's top 10. And

2:17

there's an obvious parallel already

2:19

with my guest, broadcaster Simon

2:22

Mayo. Simon has been

2:24

on the radio since the early 80s, spending

2:26

much of his career at the BBC with

2:28

radios 1, 2 and 5 live. He

2:32

left the BBC in

2:34

2018 and now presents on Greatest

2:37

Hits Radio and the classical music

2:39

station Scala. And he co-hosts a

2:42

film review podcast with Mark Camode.

2:45

Simon, welcome. I want

2:47

to ask you more about your career

2:49

as we go along, but first take

2:51

me back to Radio 1 in the

2:53

late 1980s and your first

2:55

meeting with Fluff. It

3:00

was, I have to say, one of

3:02

the most memorable introductions to anyone

3:04

in my entire life. I'm doing

3:06

The Breakfast Show and as

3:08

I remember it's like quarter past nine, something like

3:11

that, and Alan had been re-signed to come back

3:13

to Radio 1. And

3:15

I had never met him before.

3:17

There's a record playing and the

3:20

doors opened and Alan comes in. He

3:22

sees me and he says, Simon Darling.

3:25

And he comes over, he puts his

3:27

hand over my mouth and kisses the

3:29

back of his hand. So to all

3:32

intents and purposes, it was a full on mouth

3:34

to mouth kiss from one of the greats

3:36

of radio. But you

3:38

didn't know him. Never

3:41

met him before. He never met him before.

3:43

Simon Darling and then he kissed me. And

3:46

it was, I have to say, it

3:48

was quite a thrill. Were you Starstruck? Yes.

3:51

Yes, absolutely. I don't remember him quite

3:53

to the 60s, but I remember him

3:55

growing up and he was one

3:58

of the legends of radio already. You know, we're

4:00

just talking at the end of the 80s as he said. So

4:03

to be greeted in such a way by someone

4:05

who you've listened to all your life was quite

4:07

something. When did you first

4:09

become aware of him, do you think? That's

4:13

a good question. My guess is it's in the 70s. Maybe

4:16

it was the 60s and 70s. It was just the voice

4:18

of my childhood. It was the voice

4:20

of at the sign of the swinging symbol. He

4:23

also did afternoons. But it was the

4:26

fact that he had that voice, which

4:29

you've referred to already, but he had a

4:31

kind of a voice which was Australian, American

4:34

and British. And whenever

4:36

he was presenting, it was like he lit

4:38

a fire under whatever he was doing. And

4:41

this wasn't a radio show that

4:43

you had on in the background. It

4:46

was a radio show that you sat and listened to.

4:49

And it was a radio show very

4:51

often that spanned all kinds of music.

4:53

Yes, I associate him with classical

4:56

music, with rock music, because he

4:58

did a rock show and

5:00

with pop music. And he was in my head,

5:02

there may well have been other people who did

5:04

it first. He was the first music presenter to

5:06

do everything, that he loved

5:09

opera, that he loved rock and roll

5:11

and he loved heavy metal. And you could tell

5:13

that and he presented all of them with

5:15

style. And I realized that

5:17

actually, Alan has been a really important part

5:20

of the way I look at radio and

5:22

the way I present, even though we sound

5:24

very different. I think the things that influenced

5:27

him probably influenced me because

5:29

he was one of those people who

5:31

just used classical music to

5:34

punctuate his conversation. He used rock

5:36

and roll to punctuate his conversation.

5:39

It was all the same to him. He was

5:41

enthusiastic about all of it. And I

5:43

wanted the enthusiasm that I'd had for pop music and

5:45

rock and roll to be a part of the classical

5:47

world as well. As Alan had done. Great

5:50

English music lovers. Someone

5:58

who understands that. production style

6:00

better than most is

6:03

radio and music producer Phil Swern,

6:05

who worked with Alan for

6:07

many years and he's with us in

6:09

the studio. Phil, what are your earliest

6:11

memories of meeting this man? The

6:13

first time I met Fluff was, I was

6:16

a big fan of pop

6:18

radio and the BBC always used

6:20

to take a stand at the ideal home

6:22

exhibition and I used to go there every year

6:24

and I'd get autographs of David Jacobs and people

6:27

like that and that's when I first met

6:29

Alan. He signed my book and

6:31

I chatted to me for a while and I was

6:33

very happy and delighted and thrilled. I went

6:35

off. How old were you then roughly?

6:38

I must be about 14, 15 and then

6:40

a few years later I finally got a

6:42

job working for a record company running errands

6:45

and it was a company called Strike Records and

6:48

one of my errands one day was to

6:50

go around to Alan Freeman's flat in Maida

6:52

Vale and hand him some records and

6:55

I was terrified so I actually got a

6:58

bus to Maida Vale, went up to Wollensley

7:00

Court, that's where his flats were, knocked on

7:02

the door and said, oh Mr Freeman,

7:05

and he said, who are you? I said, I'm

7:07

from Strike Records. Oh come in. I said, no,

7:09

no, I've just got to give you these. Come

7:11

in, love, come in. So

7:14

I went in, I was

7:16

literally shaking and he poured me a martini.

7:18

He said, you drink this, we'll sit down

7:20

and he opened the package. There's two records.

7:22

Right, let's listen to him. Show him, love.

7:25

He puts them on the turntable. No, don't like that.

7:27

That's not very good. The second one is, alright,

7:30

love, we'll play that on Sunday on Pick of the Pops. He

7:32

said to me, go back and tell your bosses

7:35

that that record will be in Pick of the Pops on Sunday.

7:38

And I went back and they said, oh, well

7:40

done. Now get on and make the tea. He

7:45

was being nice to you. Yes. So

7:48

I did actually deliver many more records to Wethersley

7:50

Court and it nearly always invited me in

7:52

and we'd sit down and listen to music and

7:54

we got to know each other quite well. Because

7:58

to unit two... As

8:04

my producers have a tire

8:07

of reminding me Phil, a lot

8:09

of work goes into making radio

8:11

presenters sound effortless. Give

8:13

us a flavour of what it was

8:15

like putting an Alan Freeman show together.

8:17

Well, he was very, very easy to

8:19

work with, I have to say. And also

8:22

because the fact that we knew each other

8:24

quite well, it was also a lot easier.

8:26

So when it came back to Radio One,

8:28

I began producing the show because it'd

8:30

been always his chart, I would choose the charts

8:32

and we would sit and discuss

8:34

which ones he would play, which ones we wouldn't play and

8:37

between us we'd put together a show. So

8:39

he was actually an architect of

8:42

his own show. Oh yeah. Yeah.

8:44

I mean, he left me bulk of the work to

8:46

me, but he would look at it and say, oh,

8:48

can we play that or can we leave that one

8:50

out? But mostly we actually were on the same wavelength

8:52

with the music. Did he use to horse around with

8:54

you? Yes. All the time.

8:56

We used to joke and joke. And one day he

8:59

said to me, he said, I love love. I've got

9:01

the headphones on and I'm queuing

9:03

out records and I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And

9:05

you sometimes want me to phase a record. Why

9:07

don't you get a stick? And when you want

9:10

me to phase the record, just tap me with

9:12

it. And I said, poke you

9:14

with a stick. Yes. And

9:17

three or four weeks later, the

9:19

controller of Radio One, Johnny Bearding, was

9:21

showing some VIPs around the building and

9:23

they walked into the pick of the

9:25

pop studio and there I was poking

9:27

the presenter with, Miss, what on earth

9:29

are you doing? I saw it. It's

9:31

to get his attention. And we

9:33

keep on this way. For

9:39

Unit 3 and

9:41

LP time. Do

9:44

you think he was, I mean, his manner

9:46

on the radio was an extrovert. Was he an

9:48

introvert? Yes. And when he's

9:51

relaxed, he'd be very, very open

9:53

and chatty. But a lot of the time when

9:55

I saw him, if I was with him in

9:58

public, he'd be very polite. had

10:00

a chat but not to the degree that I

10:03

knew him. I think radio is full

10:05

of introverts and it requires a certain

10:07

extrovert character maybe as a performance but

10:10

I always wondered if actually he

10:12

was an introvert. I think he was. Interesting

10:14

remark, radio is full of introverts.

10:16

It's not what people would think. People would

10:19

think, oh you want to be outgoing, sociable,

10:21

extrovert but both of you

10:24

and I know quite a few people in radio

10:26

who the moment they're off air, it's

10:28

a different and much more private person.

10:30

There are always of course the extroverts.

10:33

But think about what we're

10:35

doing. We're sitting in the studio. Sometimes there might

10:37

be just one of you, someone two of you, three of you.

10:40

You can't see the audience, you don't know if

10:42

they're listening, they've switched off, you know, what they're

10:44

doing. And I

10:46

think that appeals to a certain type

10:49

of performer. Your style

10:52

Simon is so different to Alan's. He

10:54

projects and informs but you chat to

10:57

your listeners. When you were at Radio One

11:00

was there a sense that Alan's style

11:02

of broadcasting was no longer in demand?

11:04

I guess there's some truth in what you're saying.

11:07

In terms of the style of

11:09

presentation, I remember reading many years

11:11

ago an article that you

11:13

wrote in the spectator Matthew about Ken

11:15

Bruce and how much you admired Ken

11:17

and his presenting style. Me

11:20

too. And I always related to

11:23

the person who is the staple

11:25

of pretty much every radio station

11:27

ever, which is the friend behind

11:29

the microphone. Someone like Johnny

11:31

Walker, someone like Ken Bruce and

11:34

not really like Alan Freeman and not

11:36

really like John Peel because although

11:39

I do think Alan was a genius

11:42

and a master craftsman, he

11:45

wasn't someone who I wanted to

11:47

be like because it sounded as

11:49

though there was only one of him. So

11:51

I admired him and loved what he did

11:53

and didn't miss a single show. But

11:56

I wanted to be like Johnny

11:58

Walker, I wanted to be like Kim Bruce and

12:00

I think whatever the controller

12:02

is thinking, whatever the fashion of the

12:04

day is since radio began, the friend

12:07

behind the microphone, which I would suggest

12:10

you are Matthew, is someone who is

12:12

always going to be in fashion or maybe just

12:14

slightly out of fashion but employed

12:17

forever. I think when you started the show Matthew,

12:19

the reason why I think I went with Alan

12:22

to talk about on this program is

12:24

as soon as people heard his voice

12:26

my guess is that a substantial number

12:28

of your audience smiled because

12:31

that's what he made people do. He

12:33

spent much of his career at

12:35

the BBC with two stints at

12:37

Radio One but in 1993 he

12:39

left the station for the last

12:41

time. What do you

12:43

remember about that? Was it sad? Yes,

12:46

but when your time runs out it runs

12:48

out and from what I could

12:50

gather from interviews that I've heard with Alan

12:52

he was quite hang-win about it and he

12:55

wanted to be associated with music, he

12:57

wanted to be associated with radio. I

12:59

guess he was always representing an older

13:01

style so when Matthew Bannister came along

13:03

and wanted to change things he was

13:05

an obvious person to

13:07

move on. That's why when Smashey

13:09

and Nicey turned up with Harry and Phil

13:11

and Paul Whitehouse he was the obvious person

13:13

to take the Mickey out of because he

13:16

sort of represented the old way of doing

13:18

things. Do you remember that time Phil? I

13:20

certainly do. Yes. Sad, melancholy,

13:22

fearful. Yes, he was.

13:25

Well he accepted it but he was very

13:27

disappointed after such a long time

13:29

with the BBC moving on. All

13:32

of us who are behind the microphone or in front

13:34

of a camera are vulnerable to

13:36

a new executive or controller coming

13:38

in who decides we're no longer the right

13:40

fit for the show or or even a

13:43

station. How did it feel

13:45

for you Simon leaving

13:47

the BBC? Thank you

13:49

Matthew. It was funny when I was approaching

13:53

this venerated building it did

13:56

all come back how traumatic it all

13:58

was when there is a relationship break

14:00

up, the ending is painful. It

14:02

doesn't mean that the previous few

14:05

decades have been anything other than

14:07

fantastic. So, you know, with the

14:09

advantage of time, I can say, you know, my

14:11

time at the BBC was wonderful. My mother was

14:13

a studio manager here, probably in this very studio

14:15

in the 1950s, so it's always been a part

14:17

of the way I've thought about radio.

14:20

The manner of the departure was unfortunate,

14:22

but it was the controller's opinion. I

14:25

likened it at the time to Gary Lineker being in Barcelona,

14:27

and he was taken over there by Terry Venables, and he

14:29

did very well. They then got

14:31

a new manager, Jaren Cruyff, who played him on the wing. Amazingly

14:33

because I think he then wanted to get rid of him, but

14:35

they played him out of position and he wasn't happy and he

14:37

left. So I think that's what

14:39

was happening. They played me out of position, so I left.

14:43

And the next subject... It's

14:48

Unit 4. The top 10.

14:54

Let's go back to the beginning, so

14:56

to speak. I know nothing

14:59

about his early life. Do either of you know where

15:01

did he come from? This might be useful. I mean,

15:03

I know the stats in as much as he was

15:05

an Australian who came over here in the late 50s.

15:08

Australian. Yes, oh, yes. I

15:10

don't know that much about his earlier days.

15:13

I know he was reading news from

15:15

an Australian radio station. Did he talk about

15:18

his Australian days? A little bit. A little

15:20

bit. I remember he said he was doing

15:22

a Through the Night show. Maybe

15:25

it was in Melbourne or Tasmania, one of the

15:27

two. It was like midnight till seven and

15:29

he'd fallen asleep at the microphone. And he

15:31

was playing a Frank Sinatra album all the

15:33

way through, which seems to be a cop-out,

15:35

actually. And the phone in the studio

15:37

rang and it was his mother. Maybe

15:40

his own listener at the time was

15:42

saying, darling, the record has stopped. Anyway,

15:46

and he was fired from that job. But

15:48

yes, he was a jobbing

15:50

broadcaster in Australia who just fancied what was

15:53

going on in the swinging London. That's

15:55

right. Apparently when he was a kid, he wanted to be

15:57

an opera singer and a crooner. That

16:00

he couldn't sing which was bit of a

16:02

bit of a problem. I just wanted to

16:04

be very much part of music and because

16:06

I wanted to be part of music I

16:08

went to a thing teacher. At. The

16:10

age of eighteen. And

16:13

I had voice production for two years.

16:16

And after two years I've thoughts

16:19

get very brave. Record

16:21

your voice and have a listen.

16:23

So I recorded Evans listen back

16:25

and virtually burst into tears because

16:28

I knew that bought I had

16:30

a pleasant baritone voice. I was

16:32

in never, ever. Gonna

16:35

have the material to be an opera singer and

16:37

that was just dreadful. One is

16:39

it's few other times I met him

16:41

apart from when he smoked meats was

16:43

as he gave me a little ton

16:45

of talk about the similarity between opera

16:48

and heavy metal and he says they're

16:50

very very similar some and any and

16:52

I spent the weekend that seats looking

16:54

for the notebook which he wrote in

16:57

because he wrote dance various pieces of

16:59

music for me to listen to in

17:01

which he would prove it receives me

17:03

the opera and heavy rock with very

17:06

similar he said it's all costs. Costumes

17:08

Valhalla. Screaming people on stage

17:10

and he loved all of it. So.

17:13

Even. If he wasn't going to be

17:15

a great of person, he did become a

17:17

great radio presenter. But that love as opera

17:19

and that love of music he carried with

17:21

him. All. The time and he

17:24

put else the trip coming to

17:26

Britain five or six times for

17:28

was finally deciding. I think in

17:30

Nineteen Fifty Seven, ten years on

17:32

Radio Four. In Nineteen Ninety Seven,

17:34

remembering that time, gotta train. Into.

17:37

Some pancras. Got another train,

17:39

hailed a cab and I said take me

17:41

to big then. At. The

17:43

drive to the pick up take

17:45

me to big bad I sit

17:48

he i ago said we got

17:50

to or parliament square and there

17:52

was a double decker read bus

17:54

and there was a black taxis.

17:57

They were the houses of parliament and

17:59

I. My God. it's so real.

18:01

it's there. And all of a sudden

18:03

big death struck the our. And

18:06

I burst into tears out of

18:08

total patriotism. I was here in

18:11

London, and even at that moment,

18:13

My. Thoughts were. I

18:16

care about the business. I I'd want

18:18

to go home back to Australia after

18:20

nine months and say look at me

18:22

I've been up the Eiffel Tower or

18:24

whatever I thought I wanted the here

18:26

writing from the Eiffel Tower and saying

18:28

I've been here three years and it's

18:30

wonderful and of actually my first thoughts

18:33

were I'll get a job as selling

18:35

shirts and and I was introduced to

18:37

a few people at parties and one

18:39

of them found up and said this

18:41

in your railyard a Radio Amount you

18:43

and I suggest Anthrax. A simple radio.

18:45

Luxembourg are worth holding auditions

18:47

for some a relief to

18:49

showcase. So I finally wound

18:51

up having an audition at

18:53

Radio Luxembourg Ousted streets of

18:55

his listeners younger than me

18:57

who don't know Radio Luxembourg

18:59

was this very cool radio

19:01

station at the time that

19:03

to broadcasting sometimes from off

19:05

sure of his buddies regulations

19:07

disallowed competition has played a

19:10

lot of pop music. Zelda

19:12

doesn't talk much about his

19:14

time with Radio Luxembourg. A

19:16

little this any work to them cause a

19:18

long time because we wanted us to become

19:21

a parts he did a show results of

19:23

the lasers on max and us was sponsored

19:25

by the rental company serve as David Akers

19:27

would pay Reckless Three Am I Sauce or

19:30

all Death Records? That was really the only

19:32

place you could really hear a lot of

19:34

new musics. I used to have the at

19:36

the new Missile Express done one size of

19:39

charts. when you these is from money am

19:41

I don't Son's Death on I'd take them

19:43

off as I heard him and Sauce. Would

19:45

actually be playing lots of the

19:48

difference every week And then he

19:50

got the chance to when take

19:52

over pick of the poses and

19:54

he took over from David Jacobson

19:56

Vx David take it's also chat

19:58

any questions yet overcome. Really different,

20:00

damaged it's another age now is

20:02

that his Freeman explaining how he

20:04

decided to ring the changes that

20:06

in those there. No.

20:09

Records faded, everything ended. So what to

20:11

do is than ever he said he

20:14

says singing you take the music down,

20:16

you back on us what you just

20:18

heard and you introduce for next act

20:20

before the finale of that record is

20:22

finished. And we segways everything.

20:25

For. A whole hour away you introduced

20:27

it on the instructions. I over you

20:29

back announced it on the last bit

20:31

of the instrumental introduced of x want

20:33

all sit on a bit of it's

20:35

to medal at It was wonderful. I

20:38

think listening to Allen, they're talking about

20:40

how they used to segue all that

20:42

music together and the very limited amount

20:44

of time that he had to talk.

20:46

I think it's because. With.

20:48

A very few words he managed

20:50

to make. Wide screen

20:53

radio for want of a better phrase? you

20:55

know, Christopher Nolan? Steven Spielberg? make. Big.

20:57

Sounds and Allen made big radiance and

20:59

even s his link consisted of and

21:01

I tell you what it worked. there

21:04

was one league that he deems think

21:06

account and he's coming out of the

21:08

Rolling Stones are going into The Beatles

21:10

he just said and in between it

21:12

was just one word that was all

21:14

was necessary and it's used as a

21:16

tutorial. Now to so too presenters. You

21:18

don't have to go on talking. Listen

21:20

to this he just used the word

21:22

and and at the end of the

21:25

can down at the son of the

21:27

swinging symbol. When he said all

21:29

right, musical step. right? Now

21:31

the musical step stay bright and that was

21:33

it. That's what he did say was his

21:36

economy with words. That. I

21:38

think was. One. Of

21:40

the things that made. The

21:42

puffs make him or did he make

21:44

pick up the pumps either of you.

21:46

What do you think? Passing David Jacobs

21:49

had a falling with it the when

21:51

soft tacos. A He made his own

21:53

originally. When David Jacobs came off at

21:55

first he only did it for thirteen

21:57

weeks and then Freeman and they gave.

22:00

I'm and Freeman a new show nighttime

22:02

show called Pop to Bed and As

22:04

yeah He as he did this show

22:06

a few weeks and on on first

22:08

or second week he insists as greetings

22:10

topic as is time to Pop To

22:12

Bed With and Freeman. Have

22:15

you could hear that one coming for movie

22:17

I seek went mad as you cannot say

22:20

that with Julia the second Scylla waiting to

22:22

take over the from Roy Orbison way to

22:24

get the ball, Cliff constantly on the clan

22:26

thick of the pub was transferred to Radio

22:28

One when the station was launched. In Nineteen

22:31

Sixty Seven. But as the nineteen

22:33

seventies went on, things began to

22:35

change For Allen, What Was happening?

22:37

Simon. In Nineteen Seventy? Yes,

22:39

yes. Is this a reference to punk

22:41

music? Guess the whole scene? I guess

22:44

he's one of the old Guard, Although

22:46

having said that, Your. Former colleague

22:48

John Whittingdale. Once. Told me that

22:50

you and he went to Angelica story Dayton

22:52

said if it's and every time he excused

22:54

from five I've always had is still missing

22:57

doubts. Have the biggest committee and former fan

22:59

of the and sit ups assists you know.

23:01

So Punk took people in slightly. And

23:04

unusual ways. But I think Arab

23:06

people like Bob Harris and musically

23:09

bands like Genesis is suddenly thought.

23:11

Oh. Hang on. I'm suddenly sounding

23:14

very old and maybe I didn't

23:16

sit this the when you see

23:18

old editions of Top of the

23:20

Posts from the late seventies. It's

23:22

not fun of punk peaceful as

23:24

Brotherhood of Man you know it's

23:27

will have some bespoke telling me

23:29

terrible music but if you're following

23:31

session. And if you're

23:33

following trends, he would be easy for

23:35

someone like Alan to felt as though

23:38

they're a fish out of water. Yes,

23:40

Apparently his sexuality he was gay and

23:42

that was it was said, an open

23:44

secret. but was it an open secret

23:47

his friends presume blue or new, but

23:49

I didn't know. Did most of his

23:51

listeners really know Kenny? Ever It, for

23:53

instance, never really tried, died what he

23:56

was, even if nothing was said and.

23:59

I. know it was a different time but couldn't

24:01

Freeman have been a little bit braver?

24:04

Even Sinoel Coward gave us no end

24:06

of hints, telling the world in 1993

24:09

as he did that he'd once been

24:11

bisexual but was now celibate, doesn't really

24:13

cut it. Alan could have

24:15

been an inspiration to young people like

24:17

me who thought they were alone. He

24:20

could have done some good. I

24:22

would defer to Phil on this in as much

24:24

as Phil knew him a bit. I wonder if

24:26

it's actually though part of that, the

24:29

introverted Alan. I've heard him interviewed in which he's

24:31

talking about a piece of music and then the

24:33

interviewer tries to turn it to him and he

24:35

said I don't want to talk about myself. I'm

24:38

not interesting. I don't know whether it

24:40

was some kind of reticence or embarrassment or whether it

24:42

was just the fact he didn't want to talk about

24:44

himself. I think that's right. I think

24:46

he did keep himself to himself. I

24:49

think a lot of people didn't know because

24:51

I was told when I

24:53

went round there by several people that

24:55

he was gay. He didn't bother

24:58

me at all. But I think quietly

25:00

people did know but he didn't go on about

25:02

it at all. Did he share anything

25:04

much with people, with you? Did he

25:07

confide in you his feelings? Occasionally,

25:09

yeah. We'd go out for lunch or for

25:11

dinner and we'd sit there and we'd chat

25:13

about everything and he was very

25:16

much a loner though. He didn't mix

25:18

very much. He was always invited to events and

25:20

to big receptions and things. Really

25:22

did he hear? I got to

25:25

know him really well and so did funnily enough

25:27

my parents because when I told my folks I'd

25:29

been to Seattle and Freeman a few times, why

25:31

don't you invite him round for lunch? And I

25:33

said don't be ridiculous. And they said

25:35

what's up? So I went round there while I vivid

25:38

of small records. My parents wondered if he'd like to

25:40

come round for Sunday lunch and

25:42

I thought he'd feel a laugh. No, he

25:44

came. That I imagine was not

25:47

because he specially wanted to meet your parents.

25:49

It was a kindness to you. Yes, it

25:51

was. Completely. But he got on really

25:53

well with them and he would actually go round there for

25:56

lunch or see them when I wasn't

25:58

there. Do you think he was loner? What was there

26:00

anyone else in his life? You

26:03

sound like one of his closest friends. No,

26:05

he had a few friends. And

26:08

he did have a couple of female

26:10

friends that came over from Australia that

26:12

he brought around for lunch. Was

26:15

he happy? Happy, I

26:17

don't know. Content, probably.

26:20

He lived for the radio and for

26:22

his music. Phil, we haven't got enough

26:24

time to go through every aspect of

26:26

Alan's career. Just sum up first

26:29

what happened to him after he left the

26:31

BBC. He did return

26:33

to Capitol for a while. He

26:36

went on to their gold network. When he went to

26:38

Capitol to Pickle the Pops the first time, it was

26:40

called Pickle the Pops Take Two, just

26:42

to keep it away from the BBC title.

26:44

Then he went to Capitol Gold and did

26:46

Pickle the Pops Take Three. And

26:49

he also developed a classical show called The

26:51

Greatest Bits for radio. Did he

26:53

ever want to return to Australia? Or was home

26:55

here? I

26:58

think he did go back a couple of times for a short

27:00

visit because he did have a brother who

27:02

he visited. But no, no, I think

27:04

he'd made his roots here. And that was, I

27:07

mean, he stayed in his flat in Maid

27:09

of Ailes until he could no longer manage.

27:13

Simon, it's rare I come to the end of

27:15

a Great Lives programme and

27:18

feel I still know so little

27:20

about the person. You've

27:22

nominated him as a great life. It

27:25

was a great radio life. Yes. Was

27:28

it a great life? And

27:30

that's where I would have to say, I

27:32

don't know, Matthew. And I wonder if we

27:35

don't know that because he didn't want to tell

27:37

us that he was a shy person,

27:40

which goes back to the thing I was saying before

27:42

about being an introvert. It

27:44

sounds as though he didn't have a lot of friends. The

27:46

people who knew him, loved him,

27:48

would have liked to have known him more. But maybe

27:51

he didn't want that. And

27:54

maybe for most of his life he was happy living

27:57

in Maid of Ailes and making

27:59

radio programmes. Did you feel, Phil,

28:01

that you were working with a great man

28:03

in inverted commas? Absolutely, from day one. I mean,

28:05

I thought he was a great person. That

28:08

day I queued up to his autograph,

28:10

and then to find him actually working

28:12

with him was an absolute honour. Every

28:15

time we worked together I felt the same. I

28:17

thought, I couldn't believe it. I'm in here in

28:19

the studio with the great Alan Freeman. My

28:21

thanks to Simon Mayo for choosing the

28:24

life of Alan Freeman, and to Alan's

28:26

producer, Phil Swern, for being our expert,

28:28

and for one last time, over

28:31

to you, Phil. Chuck, there you are, the devil

28:33

has placed his mind to go, and happening in

28:35

the next picture of the box. Next

28:42

Sunday. All right? All

28:45

right. Very right. Cold

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