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and get wild! Hey,

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Hey, it's Conrad Thompson and you're listening

1:34

to Grilling JR with the voice of

1:36

professional wrestling, Mr. Jim Ross. Jim, how

1:38

are you man? I'm good, buddy. I'm

1:40

good. How are you doing? Man

1:42

better than I deserve. Excited to be on here

1:44

talking with you today. Of course, we're going to

1:47

be talking about WrestleMania 15. It's

1:49

a WrestleMania season, of course, for a lot of

1:51

wrestling fans and man, they're

1:53

back in Philadelphia 25 years

1:56

later. So that's what we're doing.

1:58

We're going way back to WrestleMania. team

2:00

in Philadelphia, it

2:02

was a interesting time in the world

2:04

wrestling Federation, the Russo era,

2:06

we were knee deep, but

2:08

boy, the, uh, the business was hotter

2:10

than ever here. When I

2:13

first say WrestleMania 15 to you, is

2:15

there anything that you immediately think of

2:17

or that springs to mind? I

2:19

think it's, uh, Austin's coming out

2:21

party. Nothing's

2:23

going to super, uh, super impose that.

2:26

I don't think it's,

2:28

it was just a wrestle. Many has a pulse

2:30

of its own has his own personality, uh,

2:33

all that stuff, which we'll talk about, but,

2:36

uh, Philly was on fire

2:39

and they were ready for what they were about to see. I

2:42

can't wait to talk about WrestleMania 15.

2:45

I want to remind everybody that if

2:47

you haven't already, JRs book is right

2:49

around the corner and you can pre-order

2:51

right now. Uh, I

2:53

encourage you to check out jrbook50.com. The

2:57

name of the book is business is about to pick up.

2:59

It's chronicling JRs 50 years

3:02

in the wrestling business. How about

3:04

that? 50 years in

3:06

the wrestling business, Jim. Yeah. What

3:08

have I been doing all this time? Where'd

3:12

the time go by garlic? So yes. Uh,

3:14

it's a labor of love. It's probably the last book

3:17

I'm going to write. Hope folks take advantage of that

3:19

fact. Uh, I

3:21

think the book's going to be available, uh,

3:24

in May to everybody.

3:27

But as Conrad said, you can order it now and,

3:29

uh, that'll work out pretty good.

3:31

I've got some appearances coming up where I'll, I'm

3:33

going to do my best to take some books,

3:36

have books with me to sell and

3:38

sign. Uh, so

3:41

we'll see how it works out. Um, uh,

3:43

I really liked the concept of the book.

3:45

Paul Bryan and I, I thought did a

3:47

nice job on putting

3:49

it all together. I wanted something

3:52

that was not an everlasting read,

3:54

right? Quick, quick,

3:56

quick stories and all that stuff. So, uh, I

3:59

think we have. Optics that and,

4:01

uh, and we didn't have any problem

4:03

coming up with a 50 stories. I mean,

4:06

it was just there and we, there's just, I could probably done

4:08

50 more, but, uh,

4:10

let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's just sell this one and

4:13

see how it goes. But I think people are going to like

4:15

it. I know

4:17

they will. I enjoyed it. I know, uh,

4:19

they've still enjoyed it. We both got little

4:21

preview copies. Encourage you to preorder yours now.

4:23

Jr book 50.com. Business

4:26

is about to pick up. And boy, business

4:29

has been picking up here in 1999. That's

4:32

what we're talking about. But when I

4:34

think of WrestleMania 15 in that era,

4:37

man, there was a lot of moving parts with

4:39

the Russo era, the attitude era where knee deep

4:41

in it, but with

4:43

you specifically, they try to

4:45

turn you heel. Now I know

4:47

they tried that once before, I guess three years

4:49

prior 1996. And

4:52

you're going off about the fake diesel and

4:54

the fake razor Ramon. And you did a

4:56

great job in that promo. We've covered that

4:58

in the art in the archives over grilling

5:01

jr.com. But when this came up again

5:03

in 1999, the idea that they wanted to make you an

5:06

onscreen character, not quote unquote,

5:08

just a commentator, but now you're going

5:11

to be a bad guy, a heel

5:13

persona. This time maybe being paired

5:15

with your old pal, Dr. death, where

5:18

you, I know you didn't enjoy it in 96, but

5:21

the pairing with Dr. death, did that make you

5:23

feel different or were you still maybe not so

5:25

bullish on the idea? Maybe a little bit more

5:27

pressure. Uh, to make it

5:29

work. Uh, I thought maybe I

5:31

never felt comfortable being a heel. I

5:34

would have done it if it had been done correctly.

5:37

And, uh, and I had been more patient, but

5:40

I didn't like being a heel. I didn't like

5:42

changing my role. I liked doing what I was

5:44

doing, which I thought I

5:46

was been pretty, pretty decent. Hadn't been for

5:48

quite some time. So here we

5:50

are 50 years later. I'm

5:53

starting this crazy profession and,

5:56

uh, and I'm

5:58

still not a heel. It

6:00

just wasn't meant to be in my opinion. And that

6:02

might just be my ego talking. Here's

6:06

what you wrote in your book. In addition to

6:08

my existing administrator duties, I started to help produce

6:10

the announcing on raw each Monday. I could feel

6:12

the energy from the crowd through the curtain, but

6:15

it didn't want to go out there. I was afraid of

6:17

being mocked. That curtain became my safety net.

6:19

I could stay on one side of it and kind

6:21

of make myself forget that I looked the way I

6:23

did. If I walked the other

6:26

side, the other world or the whole wide

6:28

world would see. Even the

6:30

thought of going out there before people made

6:32

my stomach turn. Michael Cole

6:34

was my replacement. And even though he was

6:36

newish and green, I could tell that he

6:39

was going to be a hell of a talent in that position. And

6:41

my mind, I was finished with the

6:44

announcer section of my career. So

6:46

of course, you're still happily employed and gainfully

6:49

employed by WWE in this era. But

6:51

after suffering that bout of Bell's palsy and,

6:54

and maybe there's a question as to whether or

6:56

not, you know, you're going to

6:58

return to commentary. Were you

7:01

comfortable with that idea of, you

7:03

know, running talent relations and working behind

7:05

the scenes or, you know, I

7:07

mean, you wrote here, you thought it was over. Can you

7:09

take us through that? Well, I

7:11

just thought that Vince has made his mind up. He

7:13

tried more than once to replace me. And,

7:16

uh, so what options

7:18

do I have? Conrad, you're a

7:21

very smart astute businessman. If

7:23

your boss is here's what I want you to do.

7:26

And how do you not do that? Right.

7:28

You know, common sense. So,

7:30

uh, I was just going to

7:32

write it out and see where it took us because this

7:35

particular journey had

7:38

plenty of twists and turns in it, and,

7:40

uh, I was willing to just

7:43

write it out and see where it takes us and, you

7:45

know, we're doing a lot of TV, I thought

7:48

my work was going to hold up with anybody else

7:50

on the, on the roster. Or

7:52

at least that was my, my take on it. And,

7:55

uh, but it was a, it

7:57

was a little unsettling to say the least. It's hard

7:59

to walk away. way without

8:02

ample explanation.

8:07

Uh, and I just felt like that, you

8:09

know, for whatever reason, you know, Vince wanted

8:11

to upgrade, you know, I sounded Southern and

8:14

I looked bad with the middle palsy, uh,

8:17

and it kind of was

8:19

kicking my ass psychologically.

8:23

So, uh, I'll be the only thing

8:25

I knew to do because I couldn't change his

8:27

mind was to wait and

8:29

see what happens. And that's

8:31

what we did. And it seemed like it worked out.

8:34

Okay. And by and large, you

8:37

wrote in your book about Michael Cole, that he

8:39

was newish and green or new

8:41

and greenish, whatever the phrase was. But

8:43

the reality is behind the scenes, there

8:45

was a lot of wrestling fans who

8:48

believed for years that

8:50

there was some animosity between you two guys. And

8:52

I don't know if that was ever real, but

8:54

a lot of times when you see like a

8:57

starting quarterback and then his replace his back at

8:59

quarterback fans at home just want to buy into

9:01

the fact that there's some sort of contention

9:04

between them, chat

9:06

me up about your relationship with Michael

9:08

Cole then. And now always

9:11

very respectful. I always liked

9:13

Michael. Uh, Michael's wife has

9:16

some health issues. And, uh,

9:19

and so I was, I was

9:21

setting in for him at the time of the

9:23

time. I think that showed Vince. I had lost

9:25

my timing and weren't part of

9:27

my passion. Uh, but Michael and

9:29

I, I don't know that we ever had any, uh,

9:32

significant, uh, bad words with

9:35

each other. Nice guy. That's

9:37

a cop. I was trolling

9:39

in Jersey. Uh, he's a good

9:41

guy. I liked Michael a lot. Still do. I

9:44

don't talk to him. Uh, every

9:47

occasionally on the holidays,

9:49

perhaps, uh, our

9:51

birthday or something some special occasion,

9:53

uh, I will drop him a

9:55

text. He always responds. He's

9:58

always polite. So. Uh,

10:00

he's a good guy and he's had a wonderful career there.

10:03

You know, he's pretty well replaced. Good old J. R.

10:05

Is the voice of WWE. And

10:08

I took a lot of pride in that title,

10:11

unofficial title. I took a lot of pride in that

10:13

deal. So, but Michael's a,

10:15

he's a class guy, class

10:17

guy, a little nerdy sometimes. Uh,

10:21

but good, good guy. I'm glad I got to work

10:23

with him and I'm glad he's doing well. I'm proud

10:25

of him. Absolutely.

10:27

He's done a great job and, uh, I

10:29

don't think a lot of people maybe would

10:31

have predicted this longevity or this success because

10:33

he was stepping into really big shoes and

10:36

whenever we talk about that quarterback example, I

10:38

always think about when they had to

10:40

phase out Joe Montana, when the 49ers decided

10:42

we're going with Steve Young, Montana

10:45

is no longer our guy, man. A

10:47

lot of football fans, even 49er fans,

10:50

they weren't sold on that. I mean, Joe, Joe

10:52

was the proven guy, but it's

10:54

not like it was Joe's fault. This is what

10:56

management wanted. They're going to run the play.

10:58

Right. And Joe landed on his feet,

11:00

went to Kansas city and plays a good football.

11:03

So, uh, you just never know. Doesn't

11:06

that sound familiar? Pretty much. Just

11:08

don't give up. Yeah. I never

11:10

gave up on my journey to get back to

11:13

my seat in the middle of that

11:15

now it's table. Uh, I was, I was

11:18

always confident that things are

11:20

going to work out and maybe that's what, what

11:22

am I lasting? Uh, assets

11:26

is that I just refuse to

11:28

give up and tap. There

11:31

was no tap in for J. R. On that scenario.

11:34

I just had to wait and see

11:36

if my opportunity was going to arise

11:38

again. And luckily for me, and going

11:40

forward, it did happen. And,

11:42

uh, you know, so that's

11:44

kind of how I looked at that Conrad. I just wanted to

11:47

be productive and I wanted

11:49

to be back in the game. I

11:51

wanted to play. I didn't want to walk around

11:53

the clipboard with my hands using that quarterback analogy.

11:56

I wanted to play, get me on the field. So,

11:58

uh, That's kind of where I was

12:00

with that thing. I just never gave up. Well,

12:04

the WWE did not give up either. They're

12:07

coming off to really hot paper views, the

12:09

Royal Rumble and St. Valentine's day massacre. Uh,

12:12

I can't believe this is a real thing, but the

12:15

main event of saying the Valentine's day massacre

12:17

is Vince versus stone cold. And that's where

12:19

we would of course see the

12:21

debut of Paul white, who would eventually become

12:23

known as the big show. Right.

12:26

But the idea that we're saying Vince versus

12:28

Austin on a paper view, I don't

12:31

think I would have predicted that just a year prior.

12:34

I was happy with that

12:36

booking. I thought it was, you know, you

12:38

got your top heel, the guy that's

12:41

carrying the most heat, uh,

12:43

the individual that people want to see get,

12:45

get his ass kicked more than anybody else

12:47

on the roster. And you're pairing

12:49

him up with your. It

12:51

guy, uh, Steve was

12:53

getting hotter and hotter and he had

12:55

these personal issue events. So

12:57

the booking made sense. Now, was it going

13:00

to be an artistic success? Was

13:02

it going to be WrestleMania 13 with Brett

13:05

and Steve? No, never

13:07

had a chance to do that. I don't think they

13:09

believe that. I think they just want to go out and have

13:11

a, uh, dog and pony show and

13:14

kicks and punches and a little juice and so

13:16

forth. And, but it worked for me.

13:19

I enjoyed that. I enjoyed calling it

13:21

because the match had so much drama

13:23

attached to it and natural organic drama.

13:27

Yeah. Fans were really invested in this story.

13:29

I mean, clearly the biggest story in company

13:31

history, the rock and mankind are

13:33

having a really high profile feud as well.

13:36

It's going to end the night after the paper

13:38

view in Memphis, when the rock defeats mankind with

13:40

Paul white's help in a ladder match, he

13:43

wins the WWF title to set

13:45

the stage for WrestleMania. And

13:47

there was just an incredible series of matches

13:49

between those two. I know that

13:51

when people think about the rocks, most high

13:53

profile feud, they almost always go right to

13:56

Austin. And I understand that, but

13:59

before that happens. happened on a

14:01

really big level called 15, 17, 19. The

14:05

feud with mankind, at least to me, really put

14:07

the rock on the map. I

14:09

agree. Yeah, I agree. Cause Mick was

14:11

established. He was a recognized

14:14

global star. Uh,

14:16

he was unusual,

14:18

unique, and I

14:20

thought he brought the best out in the rock.

14:22

And, and to the rocks credit of

14:24

being a green guy, uh, he didn't

14:26

miss a beat. He didn't miss a beat cause Dwayne's

14:30

always been real smart. I talked about that

14:32

before here. You know, he, he

14:34

had a, he had a great way of forecasting.

14:37

He had a great way of asking the right questions.

14:40

So, uh, yeah, it was good, man. It was,

14:42

uh, I was very happy with,

14:45

uh, that match and that

14:47

program. It helped rock immensely. So

14:49

maybe Mick doesn't get the credit that he deserves,

14:51

but, uh, in any event, uh,

14:54

he was, uh, it was a

14:56

key cog in developing Dwayne Johnson. No

15:00

doubt about it. He said over the years,

15:02

by the way, he being Mick Foley that

15:04

he thought the original plan for WrestleMania 15

15:07

was supposed to be a three way, which

15:09

would have been a now baby face Mick

15:11

Foley and a baby face, of

15:13

course, Stone Cold, Steve Austin, and a

15:15

heel rock. And ultimately

15:19

Mick believes Sean Michaels maybe got in

15:21

the ear of, uh, Vince McMahon and

15:23

had it changed because he felt like

15:26

WrestleMania, the poster, if you will, should

15:29

be mono Emano. It should be one-on-one.

15:32

A lot of guys believe that kind of, I

15:34

happen to believe that too. As a matter of

15:36

fact, not the anti triple threat matches, because I'm

15:38

the first guy that ever booked a

15:41

significant amount of triple threat matches in a, in

15:44

the WWE territory back in the day. Uh,

15:47

but I agree with that. I think

15:49

that poster is means a lot. And I think

15:51

that it's, uh, this makes

15:53

common sense. You know, we

15:56

should have enough expertise booking and

15:58

matchmaking, uh, to. up with

16:00

a one-on-one match

16:03

that we could all enjoy and

16:06

not be convoluted, not have too

16:08

many cooks in the kitchen, shall we say. And

16:12

anyway, it was all good, man. That

16:15

was a good time for me as an

16:17

announcer because the angles were so real and

16:19

their basin realness. So

16:23

I was

16:25

really happy with how the booking was rolling

16:27

along there. Whoever was contributing the most should

16:29

get credit for it, but

16:31

it was fun. It was fun to call. It

16:35

was fun to watch too. It is interesting to

16:37

think how the views have changed on

16:40

WrestleMania over the years though. I mean, here we

16:42

are in 99 saying, hey, you

16:44

know, we really can't have a multi-person

16:46

main event. And then one year later,

16:48

we have a four-way with a McMahon

16:50

in every corner. Right. And

16:52

even the guy who allegedly says,

16:54

Hey, it can't be a multi-man

16:56

match. Sean Michaels says that 99

16:59

fast forward to 2004, he

17:01

becomes the third man in the

17:03

main man, you know, everyone at WrestleMania 20.

17:06

So, you know, things change.

17:08

That's, uh, that's just the

17:10

way it is in professional wrestling. And it's like

17:12

catching a movie. It's like catching a sitcom or

17:14

a TV show. You know, you

17:17

want the right chemistry. You want the

17:19

right pieces, uh, to put into that

17:21

dish. It's like making soup

17:23

Conrad. Uh, you know, to

17:25

me, the best suits are homemade and

17:28

they are multiple ingredients. They're

17:31

cooked slow. They're, they're

17:33

allowed to develop and not

17:35

that we've mentioned a good soup with that deal. We've

17:38

also got a Shane McMahon doing a little

17:40

in-ring wrestling here. I mean, we've seen him

17:43

have skirmishes and some fights here and there

17:45

and certainly some tag matches. He's actually going

17:47

to win the European title here. I

17:50

know that he did all sorts of crazy stunts

17:52

and he was really, you know, thrown

17:54

to the wolves here at times. Maybe,

17:56

uh, you know, we're testing his

17:59

mental. I'm not really sure. Sure. What was

18:01

the, did you get any feedback from the talent about

18:03

Shane McMahon, quote unquote, taking

18:06

up TV time away from

18:08

the traditional. No, not really

18:10

Conrad, not really. Uh, and

18:12

one of the reasons for that is, is that everybody

18:15

saw that Shane's heart was in the right place.

18:18

Yeah. Really. He really wanted to do

18:20

this to contribute to the

18:22

company success and talents

18:24

that had any common sense could see that was what

18:26

was happening. So, uh,

18:29

uh, no, I didn't have any issues with

18:31

it. He, if he had been arrogant and

18:33

conceited and, uh,

18:35

you know, just, uh, a miserable

18:37

prick to be around different

18:40

reaction, but Shane was, uh, at

18:43

least in my memory was

18:45

very well liked. And he was just one of the, he

18:47

wanted to be one of the boys. He worked hard to

18:49

be one of the boys and the boys

18:51

saw that and they embraced

18:53

the concept. Dave

18:56

Meltzer and the observer had this to say about

18:58

Shane. Shane as a character is way too similar

19:01

to that of Eric Bischoff. Vince

19:03

is a super performer. Not

19:05

that he doesn't get out of control at times. Shane

19:07

is a good performer doing heel interviews, but

19:09

he oversteps and does so much

19:12

of what he's not good at as well. And

19:15

due to that, he comes across as the

19:17

boss using the TV as

19:20

his ego tool. Man, I understand

19:22

we're playing conspiracy theories there, but that

19:24

sounds like that is 180 degrees different than what your take

19:26

was. Yeah.

19:29

It Meltzer had his opinion and

19:31

I respect anybody's opinion. Uh,

19:36

whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant. Uh, but

19:38

I didn't, I don't agree

19:40

with that assessment. I do look

19:42

kid Shane was very ununexperienced, inexperienced.

19:47

Uh, he was, uh, if Shane had a

19:49

fault, it might be the fact that he didn't have as much

19:54

entering product knowledge as he would like

19:56

for many to believe. And

20:01

God knows we have plenty of brilliant minds around

20:03

there that can contribute and help him. And

20:06

he's athletic kid. He's fearless. Uh,

20:09

and, uh, he was having the time of his life and I

20:12

thought that was pretty cool. Let's

20:14

talk about Paul white. We mentioned a

20:16

St. Valentine's day massacre earlier, that big

20:19

headlining match with, with Vince McMahon and

20:21

stone cold. That's where Paul white makes

20:23

his debut. And it does

20:25

feel like the first few months we're off to a

20:27

bit of a rough start where we're just calling him

20:29

Paul white, it doesn't feel like, um,

20:33

I don't know, what was your impression, your

20:36

first impression of working with Paul white, we'll

20:38

say the first several months in WWE, did

20:40

it feel like a fit for you? Uh,

20:43

yeah, I felt pretty good. Uh, you

20:46

know, I had a little bit of experience

20:48

with Paul white. He played junior

20:50

college basketball at

20:52

Northern junior college in Tonka wah,

20:55

Oklahoma, uh, two year

20:57

school. And then he

20:59

was, the deal was set up. I

21:01

believe I recall, uh, correctly that

21:03

he was going to go from there

21:05

to his predetermined destination of Wichita state

21:08

and play hoops. So, uh,

21:11

so we had that in common. His coach

21:14

at Northern junior college was a old

21:17

friend of mine. So,

21:19

uh, I had a little insider, inadvertent,

21:22

but insider information on him.

21:25

And, uh, I used it to

21:27

help establish a relationship because

21:29

Paul white's not any different than anybody else in

21:32

wrestling. He's going to have some issues where he's going to

21:34

be, uh, uh, you know,

21:38

in insecure, especially

21:41

when you know that you're this massive

21:43

body, uh, that, you

21:46

know, he started from scratch. He

21:48

was athletic enough and he had the aptitude, uh,

21:52

and he listened to others, which was good,

21:54

but I, I thought, I didn't think

21:57

we got out of the box. Oh,

21:59

Berkeley. strong with him, uh, to

22:02

be honest with you. Bart

22:05

gun is also going to be coming back

22:07

into the company and having one brawl for

22:09

all, you would think that there would be

22:11

some big plans around the same time. We're

22:14

going to see, he runs across butterbean in

22:16

the crowd. I

22:18

know how this worked out, but

22:20

at least once upon a time, boy,

22:22

it felt like there were plans for Bart gun. Would

22:25

you agree with that? Yeah, absolutely. Good

22:28

looking guy, reliable. Professional

22:31

athletic. Why would there

22:33

not be, you know, the thing that,

22:35

that the bar had to, had to

22:37

address was his ability to

22:40

connect with the audience and,

22:42

and, and, and the charisma area,

22:45

but as far as mechanics and look

22:48

attitude, uh, he had all those

22:51

things, but unfortunately,

22:53

uh, Vince did

22:55

not agree with that assessment. And so he didn't

22:57

have put any confidence in Bart and,

23:00

uh, that story ended

23:03

almost abruptly as it started. Let's

23:07

talk about Sable here. She's been one of

23:09

the hottest merch movers for a couple of

23:11

years. She's getting huge pops. She is a

23:13

huge star. I mean, she's been

23:15

on the cover of Playboy. She's

23:18

been on TV guide. I

23:20

mean, she is a really, really big star,

23:22

but we're turning her heel. Talk

23:24

to me about the Sable heel turn. Are you

23:27

in favor of that? Did that make sense? I

23:29

think it was, I think it was a heel

23:31

turn Conrad, excuse me, for the sake

23:33

of a change. Okay. I didn't think

23:35

it was thought well thought out. There's no reason

23:37

to turn her heel. It's just

23:39

somebody's impatience, maybe events or somebody else

23:41

in the creative. Uh,

23:43

she didn't need to be, have

23:46

her TV persona altered. She's

23:48

over. She was selling merchandise.

23:51

Why would you even take a chance to

23:54

allow that to happen? Uh,

23:57

so I just, I didn't

23:59

agree with that one. But she, you're

24:01

right about several of those points you

24:03

made. She, she was a huge star.

24:05

He evolved into becoming a major star.

24:08

And if, you know, philosophically,

24:12

how did, how did, how did you determine

24:14

that? J.R. Well, I saw

24:16

the merchandise numbers daily.

24:20

I know how much she was going to earn

24:22

on our royalty checks that came

24:24

out every quarter. So,

24:26

uh, she was, uh, she

24:29

didn't need tweaking at that point in time. In my

24:31

view, I thought it was very

24:33

premature. Let's

24:36

talk about Scorpio. Uh, we knew

24:38

him here as a flash funk, but you know,

24:40

once upon a time you worked with him in

24:42

WCW is too cold Scorpio. And of course that's

24:44

what he was known, uh, in

24:47

a ECW, but he's going to

24:49

get released here and Meltzer would say he's been in

24:51

and out of hot water since he started with the

24:53

company at the 97 WrestleMania. He

24:55

had a domestic dispute at the hotel, which

24:57

resulted in the police being called. And it

24:59

was something of a black eye for the

25:01

company since everyone in their families comes to

25:03

WrestleMania. He was a major letdown.

25:06

And when he missed the show with no valid

25:08

reason in Colorado Springs, a few weeks back, it

25:10

was no surprise he was let go. I

25:13

know that you've always sort of

25:15

championed how important reliability

25:18

was in the company. Was

25:20

that really the issue? And do you remember

25:22

this conversation and circumstance? Well, Vince just lost

25:24

confidence in him. Some of

25:27

the behavior, it wasn't

25:29

that Charles AKA, a two

25:31

coast Scorpio, uh, hat

25:33

was a bad guy or a

25:35

wife beater, but he had enough

25:37

issues to put on

25:39

his report card that, uh, it made him very

25:42

vulnerable. I felt badly about that because

25:44

you know, I didn't think that Scorpio was

25:46

going to be a close to

25:48

show main event guy. Uh,

25:51

but you know, I,

25:53

I, and I could have been wrong on that, but I liked the

25:55

guy. Uh, he was unique. He

25:57

was different. He always kept changing his game. He

26:00

was doing things that are now normal. He

26:03

was doing things then that were

26:05

abnormal and that only he

26:07

could execute with the level of skill

26:09

that he was doing. So it was

26:11

a, it was a, it was a,

26:14

it was an unfortunate. I

26:17

still like Charles. I think he's a good guy and,

26:19

and a hell of an athlete. Uh,

26:22

so it's just one of those

26:24

things, man. You know, one or two little

26:27

mistakes that fall in front of

26:29

the eyes of the chairman, uh,

26:32

that do you any favors? Let's

26:35

talk a little bit about where you are in the Monday

26:37

night wars on February 15th, Ross

26:39

sets an all time viewership record at

26:41

that point, 6,492,000 viewers. Meanwhile,

26:46

nitro only draws 3,851,000 viewers. So

26:51

6.4 to 3.8 nearly double. I

26:55

mean, it's crazy. You guys have,

26:57

uh, just dominated. Meltzer would call it

26:59

the biggest whitewash in the history of

27:01

the Monday night wars, and

27:04

maybe in retaliation to that a few

27:06

days later in response to these low

27:08

ratings Goldberg's on the

27:10

tonight show with Jay Leno and

27:13

he issues a challenge to stone cold Steve

27:15

Austin. That's not something we

27:17

saw very often in this era. Were

27:20

you surprised to see Goldberg call out

27:22

Austin on the tonight show? Yeah, a

27:25

little bit. I thought it was, uh,

27:28

one of those, uh, you

27:30

know, please notice

27:32

me that we're

27:34

trying to create some interest here, et cetera, et

27:36

cetera. Uh, but

27:38

yeah, I was a little surprised. It seemed

27:40

desperate. It didn't seem

27:43

natural. It didn't. And, and I

27:45

know that Bill and

27:47

Steve were friends, so

27:50

there wasn't any personal heat there. It

27:52

was the matter I'm sure that, uh, Bill got instructed

27:55

here. What I want you to do. And, you

27:57

know, Eric could answer that better than me. Obviously.

28:00

Uh, but there

28:02

was no heat between the two guys on

28:05

a personal level. But if,

28:07

you know, hey, obviously if that match could have happened

28:09

somewhere down the road, it would be

28:11

a moneymaker. Uh, but, uh,

28:13

it was, that was never to be as long as the

28:17

day that the Goldberg signed with

28:19

us is when

28:22

we can start keeping a score. Now

28:24

the challenges mean something here

28:26

to bore. They meant nothing. Just

28:29

a publicity stunt. Well,

28:32

the WWF of course, is not going to

28:34

respond to this. And the only time we

28:36

get any response at all is when Stone

28:38

Cold goes on Howard Stern's radio show, Howard

28:40

brings it up and Austin says something like

28:43

Goldberg was wrestling in the minor leagues. Obviously

28:46

that would have been gigantic had they hooked

28:48

up and we'll say the summer of

28:50

98, but by 99, boy

28:53

Goldberg and WCW were a sucking hind

28:56

heat, as they say in the South.

28:58

Yes, sir. Uh, Terry Taylor

29:00

is a guy we haven't talked about a

29:02

lot here on the show, but man, he

29:04

was back and forth between the WWF and

29:06

WCW here. He's going to come

29:08

back to the WWF in this era. He's

29:10

even going to be working as an announcer

29:12

on Sunday night heat. What can you tell us

29:15

about Terry Taylor's on again, off again, stents with

29:17

the company? Oh, this smart guy, talented guy.

29:20

Uh, no doubt about that. He

29:22

was a veteran, a student of

29:24

the game. So he was just

29:26

trying to make a living. Him

29:28

announcing and replacing J R or

29:30

whatever. He just wanted them. One

29:32

of many that came through that

29:34

or that same goal in mind as

29:36

he was instructed to do by his owner. And

29:39

that's a, was to, I

29:42

want you to be a star and

29:44

J R so roll. Uh,

29:47

so he did it.

29:49

It just didn't quite work out for Terry.

29:51

Terry said a lot. Terry's very, his skillset

29:54

is more

29:56

akin to, uh, put

29:59

matches. together, coaching,

30:02

mentoring. And

30:04

he, I think that's been proven out

30:06

by his stay long stay at

30:08

NXT. So, uh, that's kind

30:11

of where I see that deal. He

30:13

was just miscast. Yes. And

30:15

you see that a lot in wrestling. This

30:17

guy's the heel. No, he really should be, he

30:19

should be a baby face, whatever. There's a million

30:21

ways that he's, he's in a tag. We won't

30:23

even get him out of the tag, but if

30:25

the tags are working and

30:28

you just want to make a change for change sake, you

30:30

might be traveling the wrong road. And I

30:32

think that we traveled the wrong road with Terry, Terry

30:34

added a lot to the shows and

30:37

he still has a lot to the product that they

30:39

have, but he was, uh, that

30:42

was not his, that was not what he was prepared

30:44

to do all the years. And wrestling

30:46

did not prepare him to be an announcer. Let's

30:50

talk a little bit about a public enemy and

30:52

whether or not they were prepared. They're going to

30:55

debut in big gangrel and edge in a minute

30:57

and 24 seconds. When Christian interferes

30:59

Meltzer would say, boy, it didn't take long

31:01

for PE to look bad. They don't take

31:03

bumps grunge has put on even more weight

31:06

and they both look real slow. They

31:08

got no reaction. The lights went

31:10

out and they were covered with blood. We

31:13

know that, uh, they're not long for this

31:15

world. And after the acolyte

31:17

match, that's probably all she wrote. But. You

31:20

know, these guys were a super over ax once

31:22

the final time in ECW. I guess it was

31:24

worth a shot. What

31:27

do you make of Meltzer's assessment that they just

31:29

look slow and perhaps grunge had just put on

31:31

too much weight. Yeah. That the trainer left the

31:34

station. Yeah. Uh, you know,

31:36

they did have a good run. You know, Paul, he knew how to

31:38

book them and knew how to prepare

31:40

them for TV. Uh,

31:42

and, uh, that seemed to work out well for

31:44

them, but we couldn't create

31:46

that same thing. They didn't come in

31:48

ready. Uh, as

31:50

you alluded to, uh, grunts

31:53

has put on significant weight that

31:56

affected his athleticism as

31:58

it would anybody's. So, uh,

32:01

uh, we just got them too late and

32:04

that's not unusual. That's happened. There's a lot

32:06

of illustrations that we could probably, if we

32:09

dug it up, could, uh, get that

32:11

bill. They just, they,

32:13

they just weren't prepared when they, when they

32:15

got there, it was just another territory and

32:18

it was just another territory. It was a

32:20

situation where if they had been focused and

32:22

in shape that they would, uh, have

32:25

an opportunity to

32:27

be a long-term contributor. And

32:29

while on that long-term journey, they're just making some

32:31

pretty good money. We all

32:34

liked them. They're funny guys. I

32:36

think they're always kind of paranoid and that

32:38

may have just been from their ECW background

32:41

and coming into WWE was a whole

32:43

different animal, uh, than, uh,

32:46

uh, working for any other company because

32:48

we had that one owner. I

32:51

won the patriarch. Uh,

32:53

uh, you know, it was

32:55

just a lot of different pressures. Is Vince like

32:57

it? What did Vince say? Vince,

32:59

Vince, Vince. And, and if they

33:02

didn't have a relationship with him, then all of a sudden you

33:04

feel like you're out of the loop. And,

33:06

uh, I think they more often not felt they were

33:08

out of the loop. Well,

33:12

somebody who's back in the loop is Bart Gunn.

33:14

Meltzer is going to report that he's back and

33:16

looks like he's dropped about 35 pounds from two

33:18

75 down to two 40. And

33:22

he looks totally different. Bud

33:24

Meltzer would say still uncharismatic, but he does

33:26

say that these tours of Japan have really

33:29

improved his work. Even called

33:31

the match with Bob Holly here. Surprisingly good.

33:33

They go eight minutes and 16 seconds. And

33:36

all of a sudden there's this silly

33:39

looking character dressed up like a

33:41

Japanese wrestler with this awful

33:43

dime store Halloween mask that throws Bart

33:45

off the ramp through a table where

33:47

he's then pinned. We never

33:49

really acknowledge who this person is, but

33:52

the previous week on Memphis TV,

33:54

I was a fellow wearing the same mask

33:58

and he said he'd wear it until he won the double. WWF

34:00

title and given

34:02

the way the gimmick looked, Meltzer would say, he's

34:04

going to be wearing it for a long time

34:07

with that stipulation. This

34:09

silly Japanese mask behind

34:11

that is Dr.

34:13

Death, Steve Williams. What in the world

34:15

are we doing, Jim? I

34:18

had no idea. Didn't know then don't know now.

34:22

And in a nutshell, we were

34:24

seemingly desperate to find a gimmick

34:26

for Doc bit doc and

34:28

that he could start contributing and

34:31

earning his money. You know, I

34:33

thought when I signed doc, Bruce

34:36

and I did a lot of work on that, getting that

34:38

done cause doc didn't have a lot of, you

34:40

know, again, his most of his exposure was

34:43

in Japan. And so a lot of the people on staff,

34:45

believe it or not, are not familiar with

34:47

what was going on in Japan. As

34:50

far as pro wrestling was concerned, which was a mistake.

34:53

You should look at all your quote

34:55

unquote competition. If you're familiar

34:57

with what they're doing, so you see

34:59

if somebody's being booked accurately so

35:01

that if we get the chance, we can replicate

35:04

that slight looking and

35:07

it worked out better for the talent, but I

35:09

like, uh, just a

35:11

matter of people kept looking and looking and, uh, you

35:14

know, never,

35:17

we never found the right

35:19

formula, uh, and, and I

35:22

don't know, doc just, you know,

35:24

I hired doc. To have a run with

35:27

Austin and call it a day. Right.

35:30

Uh, but we never got there. Well,

35:34

we know that, uh, Jim

35:38

Cornette has become a

35:40

polarizing figure in modern wrestling and

35:44

whether you agree with his take on wrestling

35:46

or not, he's damn entertaining and he would

35:48

have been great on TV more in this

35:50

era, but the observer says,

35:54

maybe that wasn't in the cards. A

35:56

few weeks back, there was a suggestion to replace

35:58

Shane McMahon with Jim Cornette. a job,

36:00

but Cornette is in the political

36:02

doghouse, particularly with Vince Russo, who

36:04

writes the TV and Kevin Dunn,

36:07

who produces the show. So

36:09

he's not about to get any high profile

36:12

breaks these days. Now, if

36:14

you've ever heard Cornette speak for more than an hour,

36:16

Russo probably

36:19

come up to have his, well,

36:22

let's just say not very favorite

36:24

people. Right. Um, could you see

36:26

the writing on the wall that boy,

36:28

Cornette is, uh, not happy, not having

36:30

a good time. He's probably going

36:33

to be looking to do something else pretty soon.

36:35

Yeah. At his own wishes. I think Cornie was,

36:37

uh, more than ready to move on. Yeah.

36:40

He was miserable and he's

36:42

too talented and too smart to be

36:44

miserable in a business that he, uh,

36:46

was very skilled in. So,

36:49

uh, no, I don't know, man. I, I

36:52

knew that the flame was burning when

36:55

it was going to ignite. Most

36:57

of us didn't know, but

37:00

we knew something was going

37:02

to change drastically as

37:04

it relates to Cornette's employment in WWE.

37:08

What, why do you think Russo and Cornette

37:10

are for that matter, Dylan

37:12

and Cornette were oil and water. Was

37:14

it a anti Southern bias or

37:16

something like that? Or is there something else at

37:18

play? It might've had some Southern bias in it,

37:21

you know, no doubt. Uh,

37:24

Cornette thought that, uh,

37:26

Russo and Kevin Dunn didn't have

37:28

the product knowledge to lead

37:31

and help, um, old, uh, uh,

37:34

a growing company that

37:36

had unlimited potential as

37:38

his evidence today, as far

37:41

as their financials are concerned. Uh,

37:44

but Corning didn't like any outs. They,

37:46

he looked at, at Dunn

37:48

and Russo as

37:50

outsiders. And

37:52

they weren't, you're not welcome here. Get

37:55

off my lawn type

37:57

thing. So I think that's kind of the, that.

37:59

was getting a nutshell that

38:01

they were outsiders and, and Cornette didn't like

38:04

it. And he,

38:06

and also he had issues with some of their

38:08

booking philosophies. And,

38:10

and to be quite honest, we,

38:12

we did some things creatively that just didn't

38:14

make any common sense. Right. And

38:17

so when you get into a situation like that, you

38:19

know, when you ask somebody who wrote it, how

38:22

do you want us to handle this? How do we

38:24

present this? And they don't

38:27

know it's just change for

38:29

change sake, a big

38:31

enemy within the booking realm of

38:33

professional wrestling. Well, we did

38:35

just change this. Okay. Why?

38:39

Well, cause you got nothing better.

38:42

And you believe it's time to make a thrift,

38:44

a switch to something else or

38:47

likely to yes. But that's not, those

38:49

are not good reasons. Not

38:53

good reasons at all. Uh, let's talk

38:55

about an episode of raw, pretty infamous

38:57

raw, I guess. There's an inferno match.

38:59

Yeah. And inferno match on raw, not

39:02

a pay-per-view. This is where the undertaker

39:04

and Kane are going to hook it up.

39:06

Taker is going to win when Kane's boot is caught

39:08

on fire. This is probably

39:10

most memorably known for taker

39:13

burning Stephanie's teddy bear and giving it

39:15

to Vince. At this

39:17

point, you got to assume. All

39:20

right. We've seen Vince. We've

39:22

seen Shane. We've seen

39:24

Linda. Stephanie's about

39:26

to be a regular character on TV. Could you see

39:29

that right away? Yeah. She

39:31

had talent. Yeah. I was, I hope that

39:33

we were going to use her cause she's good at what she

39:35

did. One of

39:37

the great traits for any heel and

39:39

any promotion is the

39:41

ability to be disliked. Uh,

39:45

the easier it is or, uh, to

39:47

dislike somebody, the more ammunition you

39:49

have for that person to be a villain. Villains

39:53

shouldn't make you laugh. They shouldn't have

39:56

you embrace them. Uh, it's just

39:58

not that way. And that

40:00

was speaking of Cornett, that's one of the issues

40:02

he had is where, you

40:04

know, we'd get a heel turn and all

40:07

of a sudden we're writing comedy for. And

40:10

I don't, to me, that's

40:12

so, so illogical. Uh, it's

40:14

not even funny. It's talking about

40:16

it. It's illogical. Uh,

40:18

pardon me. They, uh, it's

40:21

just, it's crazy Connie. It's just really

40:23

crazy how, how that worked out when

40:25

you start to think about it logically.

40:28

And now I can say, well, things are

40:31

different today. Are

40:33

they are, are we just

40:35

forcing, uh, we got,

40:37

I know we have some great heels and,

40:41

uh, a W great heels. And

40:44

I'm, I'm really excited to continue to

40:46

work with them. But Godly,

40:49

man, uh, you can't

40:51

book a heel with a

40:53

good thoughts in mind. They have

40:55

to have several redeeming,

40:57

unredeeming flaws. And

41:00

if you can identify those flaws as a van,

41:02

you have more reason to dislike the individual

41:05

as a talent. So,

41:07

uh, but that's kind of what's one of

41:09

Cornett's issues is that we're, we're,

41:11

we're booking too many, uh, you

41:15

know, uh, Too

41:18

many, we're cross-pollinating. And

41:21

so something's got to give. Something's not going to

41:23

be living as full as dream. If

41:26

you are writing

41:28

comedy or heels, because

41:32

personalities of a pro wrestler is going

41:34

to, going to be entertaining anyway.

41:37

So you're still going to get some last, they're going to be

41:39

organic and they're going to be real. And

41:41

to me, that's the most effective of all.

41:44

So, uh, yeah,

41:46

I, uh, that's just

41:48

philosophical stuff. And I understand

41:50

there's exceptions to the rule and, you

41:52

know, Jay Arsh is it when he

41:55

heals laughing or, you know, whatever.

41:57

Uh, I'm not saying anything other than.

42:00

In general. A.

42:03

A. Heel. Should not be

42:05

the funniest guy on the roster. If.

42:08

He is that help keep it north given

42:10

the locker room. Welcome

42:12

to Talk and only open a small

42:14

know you watch podcast title Transfer They

42:16

are in October. Twenty Seven, two thousand

42:18

and Four Director James Marshall letters cards

42:20

slapped in fear and swimmer. I really

42:22

like this episode in I'm surprised you

42:24

know, like as much as you thought

42:26

you did, I actually respect your opinion

42:28

more than respect my own in general

42:30

because when you say things are good

42:32

in a second, allow the are jumping

42:34

now are set you up on any

42:36

of the past seasons of Zoc Bill

42:38

on Youtube or wherever you listen. Say

42:42

they're sorry for the interruption, but

42:45

are you enjoying. The Show on

42:47

Google podcast. You should know that

42:49

the Google Podcast app is going

42:51

away this spring. That's right. Going

42:53

Away Gone as in and no

42:55

longer available. You can still enjoy the

42:58

so elsewhere that. Cause Town Hall

43:00

or Amazon Music? or maybe.

43:02

It is more your style whatever app he

43:04

switched to be sure to follow. See

43:06

you ever miss the next episode and. Thanks

43:09

for listening wherever you listen.

43:14

Well. Something that was the talk of

43:16

a television business for a little brother. Had

43:18

to be. Is the idea that

43:20

Monday Night Football's ratings. Were.

43:22

Down. They. Fell seven

43:24

percent. It's the lowest average

43:26

in a twenty plus your history of

43:29

Monday Night Football. And of

43:31

course the Nfl as blaming the decline

43:33

on hurting the games earlier. And.

43:35

Having more blowout games? Of course, nobody

43:38

is acknowledging the impact of Monday Night

43:40

Raw and Monday March Row with you

43:42

guys New, right? Ya move away or

43:44

of Eden or your this. Look at

43:47

the breakdown: The demographic. And.

43:50

If the young male demographic on our

43:52

side is increasing. Are.

43:55

Coming from. And turn.

43:57

to page look at the hour

44:01

by hour and the demographic ratings of,

44:03

uh, of, uh, uh,

44:05

uh, Monday night football. And you, there's

44:07

your answer, but of course they can't

44:09

go let it out there

44:11

that, uh, what

44:14

do you mean we got beat by wrestling? It's

44:16

all about the wrestling. Yes. And

44:20

the prejudice of pro-rest against pro

44:22

wrestling. Let's

44:24

talk a little bit about Paul white. You

44:27

know, we mentioned that he came into the

44:29

company in February and Meltzer would report here

44:31

that this deal was actually put together way

44:33

back in December of 96, or at least

44:35

that's when it started. The

44:37

former Luke Williams of the Bushwhackers was

44:39

sort of an intermediary to help you

44:41

guys avoid tampering. And he

44:43

set up Paul white's agent, Jim Strauss, sir,

44:46

with McMahon. And I,

44:48

as I understand it, white told McMahon that

44:50

Strauss or had the right to negotiate so

44:52

McMahon could then avoid contract tampering

44:56

and the sides agreed on a 10 year

44:58

deal for a little under a

45:00

million dollars a year. And right.

45:02

So we'll say as best we can tell, the

45:04

only part Hogan played in the deal was

45:06

that whenever giant was close to changing his

45:09

mind, thinking maybe I'll stick around here in

45:11

WCW quote Hogan convinced

45:13

him to take McMahon's deal because

45:16

McMahon could make him a bigger star. Does

45:18

Dave have this right? Is that the way you remember all this going

45:20

down? Yeah, that's well,

45:22

it's all true. I

45:25

mean, Hogan's telling the truth. McMahon

45:27

is going to make Paul

45:29

white a bigger star than anybody else.

45:33

Uh, and especially Vince is committed to

45:35

doing it and Shane took a

45:37

liking to big show. Uh,

45:40

you know, I went down there to meet

45:43

with him two or three times big show. I was

45:45

thinking of and, uh,

45:47

and enjoyed soccer recruiting trip. He

45:50

was living on the beach, I think in Miami. I'm

45:53

not sure. So we're in Florida and,

45:56

uh, but yeah, it was, that's

45:58

pretty much it. You know, we. We had a

46:01

number that we're gonna live or Die with. And

46:04

else may a downside. Nineteen

46:06

thousand, three Hundred and Twenty Three dollars

46:08

a week by memory serves me correctly.

46:11

So. Or. And.

46:13

We thought that was his number. Now here's a great thing

46:16

about. Everyday of

46:18

he had then and now and now

46:20

suing now. But. Then you

46:22

know you because he had a downside guaranteed

46:24

as mean your own salary. As

46:27

me, that's all you're going to make. If

46:29

reproductive in their ovaries, do good

46:31

by rates, etc etc. In

46:33

a good chance, make a whole lot more. And.

46:36

I think over the long haul. All

46:39

wide had some. Million. Dollar Plus

46:41

years on that one million dollar downside

46:44

year and T. So. He was.

46:46

It was a good deal for a on and now. You

46:49

know are outliers said. We. Didn't

46:51

start out with Paul. On.

46:53

T V. As well

46:55

as I wish we could have in hindsight,

46:59

Cause can't replicate. And

47:01

first thing we did was overexposing. She

47:05

can have and shine on

47:07

Tv. Henri was recovered August.

47:09

Different references. Andre. One on

47:11

Tv or really, And

47:14

North Sea of In. Mack

47:16

and A Day T y De was in

47:18

a Tv match every week either and midsouth

47:20

wrestling. right? He gotta be smart

47:22

how you with people and. And

47:25

not v. And

47:27

and not be. Near. Sighted Shower

47:29

say. So. Are.

47:32

The. Negotiations are pretty easy actually, And.

47:35

Shame is but the hell out of a on. Or.

47:38

Are we? They'll this and I don't have proper

47:40

them. Back. At Meghan sign

47:42

until he was ready to sign. And

47:45

as we did. So. In the towers

47:47

right. We. Made the official

47:49

offer an A. And

47:51

amp and the big guy went for. It

47:54

was a good deal in or to buffy was. his

47:57

make us lot of money oh yeah this

48:00

It was a lot of money then, that's a lot of

48:02

money now. Yes, almost 22's a week. So

48:05

that's a good chunk of change. I'm

48:08

glad we signed Paul, but I

48:10

wish we had used him better. The

48:13

athletic big guy, we had issues with

48:15

his weight from time to time. We

48:17

had to just talk him off the

48:20

ledge on that deal. Big

48:22

guys are funny when you say you want him to lose

48:24

a little weight. They think they're going to go hungry and

48:27

they can't stand that. So

48:31

I think he thought he was going to starve him to

48:33

death, but seriously, we could

48:36

have got more juice, more mileage

48:38

out of him if we

48:40

had used him smarter and had not

48:42

had him on TV every week. Looking

48:46

back at it, that made no sense. Talk

48:51

to me a little bit about Luke, Butch

48:53

Whacker. Luke, is that the way you remember

48:55

that he was the intermediary who helped get

48:57

the ball rolling back in December of 96?

49:00

I think so. Yeah. Hey,

49:02

he was a former Booker, you know, 30

49:04

plus years in the business. Good

49:09

guy, honest guy,

49:11

and had his heart was in

49:13

the right place. He wanted to help

49:15

WWE with a

49:17

talent acquisition. I

49:20

for one, who's responsible for getting

49:22

Paul's Sinus contract, was very

49:24

happy with it

49:27

because the Bushwhacker

49:29

could answer

49:34

questions. He could spend time.

49:37

He lived there in the area. It

49:39

had a lot of positives. So

49:42

yeah, he earned his key there. I don't know what

49:44

we paid him, but I'm sure we

49:46

paid him something that was decent, but he

49:48

was a good guy and he helped us a lot. I'm glad

49:50

he was on our team. Meltzer

49:54

wrote about a distasteful segment,

49:56

but before we talk about that, let's

49:58

talk about the money. You know, you

50:00

talked about like 20 grand a week. The big show

50:03

was making back then or nearly 20 grand

50:05

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that's a hell of a deal right there. Yeah.

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52:45

said. rocketmoney.com/JR. Let's talk

52:47

about one of the

52:50

things I know is gonna, boy

52:53

it's gonna be a burr under

52:55

your saddle. Here's what melts your breath. A

52:57

burr? Yep, here we

52:59

go. Jim Ross came out for one

53:01

of the most distasteful segments since the

53:03

Melanie Pillman interview. He called out Bart

53:05

Glenn and blamed him for his Bell's

53:07

palsy. And he slapped Gunn to

53:09

turn him heel. There were signs everywhere welcoming him

53:12

back since word was put on the internet that

53:14

he'd return on this show. Then

53:16

Steve Williams ran in and gave Gunn a

53:18

German suplex on his head and a backdrop

53:20

driver and they put the boots to him.

53:24

I don't know that this angle

53:26

wasn't Ross's idea, but it came

53:28

off terribly. Yeah, not hardly. Yeah,

53:30

I don't, I didn't, Conrad, I was never

53:32

in creative in that respect. Right.

53:34

That was not my, you know,

53:36

you get the TV and here's your sheets and here's what we

53:38

want you to do tonight. We're gonna do this thing, this piece

53:41

of business with Bart. So if

53:43

it was going to help Bart continue

53:46

to establish his persona,

53:49

I was all for it. But

53:52

I didn't like, I'm like you, I thought the

53:54

creative was weak and

53:58

unnecessary. But you know, We

54:00

did it and we got pictures to

54:02

show about it. T-shirts and everything. No kidding. But you

54:04

know what I mean. It's just, it

54:07

was just a ill thought.

54:10

At least in my take. And maybe that's just

54:12

because I, my ego is too massive. Let's,

54:16

um, I mean, I gotta ask,

54:19

how did you feel about them saying we

54:21

want to use, you

54:23

know, we want you to blame bark gun

54:25

for your Bell's posse? More importantly, how did

54:27

Jan feel about that? Uncomfortable.

54:31

She was always uncomfortable with, uh, when

54:34

my illness, uh,

54:37

was the centerpiece of a storyline because

54:40

she knew what we'd gone through, you know,

54:43

when you, when you can't suck

54:45

a straw and you can't chew, uh, a

54:48

lot of little things like that, that, and

54:51

the pain and the

54:53

paralysis, uh, it, it just

54:56

wasn't a fun time at the Ross household.

54:58

Then all of a sudden she sees that

55:01

stuff that made us so sad and, and

55:04

so reluctant to even get out

55:06

and even go to the grocery store. You

55:08

know, I caught people looking at me, you know, my, I was

55:10

when I look like, I look like a, I don't

55:12

know, some kind of TV monster, but

55:16

my one eye wouldn't blink and it's just horrible,

55:18

horrible. And she lived through that, but

55:22

I know that it affected her TV viewing. She

55:24

was not entertained. Yeah. Yeah.

55:28

I can't imagine that she would have been a fan

55:30

of this. Um,

55:32

let's touch on some other stuff

55:34

and then we'll circle back to the heel

55:36

Jim Ross persona, which is just crazy. It

55:39

was also crazy that we debuted the main street

55:41

posse. I mean, it was Shane becoming

55:43

a more regular character. I guess it makes sense, but

55:46

we're talking about how Shane was a

55:48

street fighter growing up on the main

55:50

streets of Greenwich, Connecticut. Of

55:52

course, it's a Pete gas and

55:55

Rodney getting a lot of flack, but

55:58

these guys are out here wrestling in sweater vests. It

56:00

was silly, but it worked. It felt like it was out

56:02

of a movie. What'd you think of these characters? I

56:05

liked them. I liked both guys. I got

56:07

to know them. Uh, so,

56:09

uh, not, I put some fires out for

56:11

them with the roster because guys

56:13

who just doing the math. You know,

56:15

you got two more guys coming in and they're going to take

56:18

two more spots or at least

56:20

one spot in tags. For sure.

56:23

Uh, and a lot of the

56:25

talents are jealous and insecure. Yeah.

56:27

A wrestler being insecure. Are you kidding? It

56:30

happens. I'm being facetious. Uh,

56:33

but they're good guys and they worked hard.

56:35

They, they, they, they wanted

56:37

to be successful. You know, uh,

56:40

Rodney was the toughest one

56:42

of the group. He was the

56:44

guy that, uh, did all the heavy lifting

56:46

on those kids were in high school. He

56:48

was a held ball player, tough kid. And so

56:50

was Pete. Pete lives here

56:52

in Jacksonville. Uh, as

56:54

a matter of fact, he, he, he

56:57

touches base with me occasionally just to see how

56:59

I'm doing. Uh, we haven't crossed

57:01

paths here yet, but I'm sure that we will. So,

57:04

uh, I was, it's just two

57:06

young guys that weren't

57:08

expensive. They had a great

57:10

attitude and they're learning

57:12

the, the aptitude, uh, and

57:15

some of the nuances of pro wrestling. So

57:17

I was not, I was

57:19

in their corner. I thought that, did

57:22

I like the sweater vest? No, come on. But

57:25

I liked the personality. I liked the fact that they

57:28

were, they wanted to be great.

57:30

They wanted to contribute and,

57:32

uh, anybody that's young and affordable, uh,

57:36

you're on my good list. Kurt

57:39

angle is going to make an appearance on

57:41

Sunday night heat. Tiger Ali Singh is going

57:43

to be here running down Americans and offer

57:45

$500 for any American

57:48

who would blow their nose in the

57:50

American flag. He points out

57:53

angle, calls him a local Pittsburgh hero

57:55

angle says, no. Tiger

57:57

ups. That's a $2,000 again. says

58:00

no tiger ups it to

58:02

$5,000 and angle says, yes, an

58:04

angle acts like he's going to do it, but

58:07

instead of course, blew his nose in the Indian

58:09

flag angled and gives seeing a

58:11

belly to belly suplex and a judo throw.

58:13

And the pop was said to have been disappointing for

58:16

angle said to be the reaction

58:18

of a mid-level face. Now this

58:20

is before Kurt angle is Kurt

58:23

angle in WWE, but he hadn't got, he

58:25

hadn't got over yet. Right. He

58:27

was, it was new green, the whole nine yards. So,

58:30

uh, I

58:32

thought that might've been a little bit of an unfair assessment.

58:34

It wasn't time for him to get that

58:36

huge baby face pop. No, it

58:38

wasn't time. He wasn't established. The

58:40

roots were not very deep enough that

58:43

we started to grow something. Uh,

58:46

cause we know that going forward, how,

58:49

how great a star Kurt

58:52

angle became, uh, in

58:54

WWE, maybe one of the

58:56

most honored. And I respected all around talents

58:59

that I resigned. Uh,

59:02

and he was just as a natural. I

59:04

don't remember anybody acquiring

59:06

somebody who's telling me this story is

59:09

pretty good about chat

59:12

Briscoe turning pro

59:14

between his junior and senior year

59:16

college at Oklahoma state and,

59:19

uh, the talents loved

59:21

him. He worked hard. He

59:24

paid attention. And that

59:26

matches up with Kurt's, uh, entry

59:28

into the business as well. Uh,

59:30

just, you know, he was a natural

59:33

and guys gravitated to him

59:36

because he was such a likable character. And,

59:39

uh, he was willing to listen and

59:41

open up his mind, uh, because

59:43

he realized he didn't know all the answers

59:45

to pro wrestling yet. He

59:47

had, he had to get, he had to get there. So,

59:50

uh, but I've always had great respect for

59:52

her. She'll do. I

59:55

don't hear much about him anymore. I don't expect a lot

59:57

of appearances and things. But

1:00:00

any of that, I, uh, I have

1:00:02

a big Kurt Angle band was since,

1:00:05

was from the day we signed him. I knew

1:00:07

that him being a sports caster was not going

1:00:09

to work. All you had

1:00:11

to do is hear his work. That was not what he was called to

1:00:14

do. He was called to wrestle,

1:00:16

entertain, be physical, be

1:00:18

athletic, do all the things that

1:00:21

you're blessed with and see where it

1:00:23

takes you. And we did that

1:00:25

and it took him to some interesting

1:00:27

highs. I

1:00:29

want to ask you more about this particular

1:00:31

segment with tiger Ali Singh, what I wanted

1:00:33

to sort of sidebar here for a minute.

1:00:36

There's been a conversation for the

1:00:38

past several months and boy, it really

1:00:40

heated up a few weeks ago again

1:00:42

about Dave Meltzer's star match

1:00:44

rating system. And

1:00:46

I guess there's a lot of people who are

1:00:48

upset that at the rating system and they feel

1:00:50

like maybe it's gotten out of hand, the

1:00:53

idea being Kurt angle, one of the

1:00:55

all-time greatest professional wrestlers that ever lived

1:00:58

never got a five star rating from Dave

1:01:00

Meltzer. Meanwhile, there's a lot of modern

1:01:02

talent who have a half dozen or more. I'm

1:01:05

curious, what do you make of

1:01:07

Dave's five star rating? Do you think

1:01:09

it's overhyped? Do you think it's valid? It has

1:01:12

this place. Is it silly that Kurt

1:01:14

doesn't have one? Where do you land on that? Uh,

1:01:16

I don't land on it too with both

1:01:19

feet. I quite frankly,

1:01:21

uh, I

1:01:23

think that, uh, certainly Kurt has

1:01:26

had in my view, I

1:01:28

think I called a match

1:01:30

one time with Kurt and,

1:01:32

and, uh, John Cena, uh,

1:01:35

I believe I just go back and do

1:01:37

a little research. Uh,

1:01:39

but I, uh, he

1:01:41

should have had a five star match somewhere in his

1:01:43

journey. No doubt logically you'd

1:01:46

think so. Yeah. Uh,

1:01:49

but I just think it's a, it's a wrestling

1:01:51

of a server feature. It's

1:01:53

a gimmick. Uh,

1:01:55

it's, you know, Meltzer likes doing those and

1:01:58

he's, he's built some business around. And,

1:02:01

uh, so I had

1:02:03

no big issues with it. To me, it's,

1:02:05

you know, all it meant was one

1:02:07

guy's opinion is this. Right.

1:02:11

Call it a day. That's it. It's

1:02:14

not going to make her break anything. It's not going to make her,

1:02:16

I'm not going to fire a guy

1:02:18

because well, you only, you haven't got any

1:02:20

five star matches from, we're going to let

1:02:22

you go. You know, it

1:02:24

just wasn't, so it wasn't a huge deal.

1:02:27

Wasn't a huge deal. Let's

1:02:30

talk a little bit about this, uh, this segment

1:02:32

with tiger Ali single before we move on. You

1:02:35

know, this happens in like

1:02:38

March of 1999 and

1:02:40

we don't actually see Kurt angle

1:02:43

debut until November. And

1:02:45

I'm curious, do you think if

1:02:48

Kurt would have not gotten the mid level face

1:02:50

reaction, which is the way they've described it, and

1:02:53

he got this monster pop. Do

1:02:55

you think they would have fast tracked him and not

1:02:57

been as patient? I mean, I know it worked

1:02:59

out for the best, the way it happened, but

1:03:01

if the reaction would have been over the moon, do

1:03:03

you think Vince would have been tempted? Hey, let's just

1:03:05

get him out there sooner. Oh, of

1:03:07

course. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. This

1:03:10

is very astute. Right. And

1:03:12

great promoters are have a flare,

1:03:16

no pun intended, uh,

1:03:18

finding who's hot, who's

1:03:20

trending upward. Uh,

1:03:22

and I think that's what it probably jumped

1:03:24

on that deal. But, uh,

1:03:28

the mid card aspect

1:03:30

of that was, it

1:03:33

was what it was. So Vince wasn't

1:03:35

ready to commit to Kurt,

1:03:38

even though he would go on forward and

1:03:41

a very large and significant way. Let's

1:03:46

talk a little bit about, uh, what's next for you here.

1:03:48

Uh, quote Jim Ross came out with a shopping

1:03:50

bag and called Michael cold to the ring. He

1:03:53

was mad about being fired. He pulled

1:03:55

the red key and the stupid mask out of the

1:03:57

bag and said, this is what the WWF creative team

1:03:59

had planned. for Steve Williams, who was one of

1:04:01

the greatest athletes in the world. Ross

1:04:04

said he wanted his job back and kicked Michael

1:04:06

Cole low and went to the broadcast position to

1:04:08

take over. And this got a

1:04:10

huge face pop and

1:04:12

ordered Terry Taylor to replace Cole and

1:04:15

take the headsets from Ross. Taylor

1:04:17

and Ross argued, but eventually Williams came out

1:04:19

and talked Ross in the leaving, so

1:04:22

Taylor and Lawler did the rest of the show and

1:04:24

the red rooster is going to take over on play by

1:04:26

play. The rest of the show. Man,

1:04:29

the reaction for you kicking Michael

1:04:32

Cole low, that was

1:04:34

probably not the original plan. I think

1:04:36

they underestimated how beloved good old

1:04:38

Jr was. I guess I did. I

1:04:41

know that I didn't have any idea what kind of reaction

1:04:43

we're going to get. You know, you, if

1:04:45

you're going to be a heel as Jim

1:04:48

Cornette would say, Oh, goddamn heel, heel.

1:04:52

Uh, then you, uh, you

1:04:55

know, you hope that

1:04:57

you get moved. Uh,

1:04:59

but that didn't happen. And

1:05:02

in the long haul, that was probably

1:05:04

the best things that happened to me. Is

1:05:06

that they, the fans still supported good old

1:05:08

Jr for whatever reason. The

1:05:12

ministry is going to bring up boss

1:05:15

man and they hang him from the

1:05:17

undertaker symbol, the undertaker says he's going

1:05:19

to take out the corporation one by

1:05:21

one until only she will be left

1:05:23

and he'd control her mind. Of

1:05:25

course, the idea here is she is,

1:05:27

I guess, Stephanie McMahon, but the

1:05:30

symbol, the cross, whatever you want to call it

1:05:32

Jr. What'd you think of that? Uh,

1:05:35

sketchy. I'm not a big fan

1:05:38

of some of that stuff. Uh, I

1:05:40

just find it hard to translate and hard to

1:05:42

believe. Uh, but I'm

1:05:44

glad that Ray trader, the big boss fan

1:05:46

got, got some exposure. Everybody

1:05:49

like Ray, uh, new

1:05:51

page is dues. He's deserving of

1:05:53

a break. Opportunity

1:05:56

as you may want to refer, refer

1:05:59

it, but, uh, Yeah,

1:06:03

I didn't, all that quasi

1:06:06

dark religious type stuff

1:06:09

was never on my list of things I got

1:06:11

to see. So

1:06:14

that's how I look at the Conrad. It

1:06:17

just, it got some work and

1:06:20

I got that. But how

1:06:22

would I, I might have used a

1:06:24

different set of paint to

1:06:27

paint that picture. But

1:06:29

you know, it was what it was. The

1:06:34

critical moment in the Monday night wars, according

1:06:36

to Dave Meltzer is here. Quote,

1:06:38

the Monday night wars can officially be declared

1:06:41

over the world wrestling Federation lost a few

1:06:43

battles over the nearly four years, but now

1:06:45

has won the war. The

1:06:47

new story is not a competitive rating race,

1:06:50

but the incredible success of the world wrestling

1:06:52

Federation coming at the same time as what

1:06:54

will likely become over the next few years

1:06:56

and almost free fall like destruction of world

1:06:59

championship wrestling. The WWF set a

1:07:01

ratings record with a 5.09 for Sunday night heat.

1:07:06

Wow. That's big by a 6.46 on raw. The

1:07:10

next night selling out both house shows over

1:07:13

the weekend, getting more and more merch and

1:07:15

publicity appearances from its wrestlers, all

1:07:17

leading to a WrestleMania show that will

1:07:19

surely be the biggest money event in

1:07:21

company history and the biggest non-boxing event

1:07:23

in the history of pay-per-view. My

1:07:26

goodness. Did you in any way consider

1:07:29

the Monday night war over in March of 99? Not

1:07:32

really. No. Yeah.

1:07:35

Uh, because we're going to, they're going to do another show next week

1:07:37

and they might get hot. They might

1:07:39

pop a number. They might find a

1:07:42

storyline or are the pairing of

1:07:44

talents that, uh, work

1:07:47

for them. So no, I, my

1:07:50

schedule Conrad was so intense. Uh,

1:07:53

and I'll make this short. Uh,

1:07:56

when we got back from TV on two,

1:07:59

uh, two. Tuesday morning, uh,

1:08:02

whatever. It was,

1:08:04

uh, back to work because

1:08:07

I had, I had payroll

1:08:09

was due at 48 hours. And

1:08:12

that wasn't something just, you know, you

1:08:14

get a keystroke and it worked. Uh,

1:08:17

at all, you had to compute it.

1:08:20

It was discretionary income took thought

1:08:23

preparation and all this stuff.

1:08:26

So, uh, no, I didn't think it was over. I

1:08:28

had, I had worked to do. And,

1:08:32

and so we just went about our, I had

1:08:34

a routine. If I had

1:08:36

let myself deviate and fade

1:08:38

from the routine, I would

1:08:41

be making a terrible mistake on my own

1:08:43

behalf. I'm sure as hell didn't want

1:08:45

that. Let's

1:08:48

talk about Luna here for a minute. This is

1:08:50

a little bit of bad

1:08:52

news. Quote Luna was let go this

1:08:54

past week because of four separate incidents

1:08:56

where there were problems with other talent

1:08:59

and things that were said that made the

1:09:01

front office decide it was impossible to keep

1:09:03

her. Apparently the thing she said

1:09:06

a few weeks ago on raw about not getting a

1:09:08

shot because she's not as pretty as sable had been

1:09:10

bothering her. She had problems

1:09:12

in recent weeks backstage with sable

1:09:15

Mark, Mero, Jack Lanza, and Jacqueline.

1:09:18

She complained about the angle where gang rail was

1:09:20

hung by the ministry as a prelude to them

1:09:22

joining. She basically challenged Mark Mero

1:09:25

to a fight backstage before the Memphis

1:09:27

pay-per-view she blew up at Jacqueline

1:09:29

who she had been friends with and Dayton

1:09:32

claiming that the Jacqueline ivory match on

1:09:34

heat was them stealing her style

1:09:36

of match, whatever that means, and

1:09:38

got mad at Lanza that night as well. This

1:09:40

led to several of the women being uncomfortable working

1:09:42

with her. The plan at one point was for

1:09:45

her to win the title from sable at mania.

1:09:47

Although with sable getting over so huge due to

1:09:49

playboy in the turn, that may have

1:09:52

changed. Luna was such a

1:09:54

talented lady, the subject of a great dark side

1:09:56

of the ring, which they did last season, I

1:09:58

believe. But goodness. That's gracious, man.

1:10:00

It felt like a troubled

1:10:02

waters here. Is this just one

1:10:05

too many incidents and it was a time to go?

1:10:08

Yeah. Uh, Luna of

1:10:10

God bless her had some psychological

1:10:14

issues. Uh,

1:10:16

and I don't mean that, uh, going around

1:10:18

the bus or whatever. She

1:10:20

was fragile. She didn't look

1:10:23

fragile. She looked like a tank. Right.

1:10:26

And she was dangerous. Uh,

1:10:28

the other women were by and

1:10:31

large, maybe not all of them, but a lot of them

1:10:33

are, were earlier working with her

1:10:36

cause she could hurt you. Uh,

1:10:38

and so, uh, I,

1:10:43

I wish things that worked out better for Luna. She

1:10:45

was, I, I had several

1:10:47

instances where she was a nicest

1:10:50

pie and

1:10:52

it's, but you could tell she was

1:10:54

always uneasy and uncomfortable. Uh,

1:10:57

and I got into a

1:10:59

situation there where there wasn't a whole hell of

1:11:01

a lot I could do about it. I couldn't

1:11:03

change her psychological makeup. She's

1:11:05

out. She was very insecure and,

1:11:08

uh, I enjoyed working with her. I

1:11:11

felt badly that we had to say goodbye,

1:11:14

but we had no other choices. She took the bat out

1:11:16

of her hands. Had no other choices.

1:11:19

And we tried, which just wasn't there.

1:11:23

Man, such a talent. Who's

1:11:26

going to be showing the door here.

1:11:29

Dan Severn, he's considered done, although he's

1:11:31

not gotten technically a contract release and,

1:11:34

uh, Meltzer would say there may have been an

1:11:36

issue of him making a deal with a Nokia

1:11:38

before getting the WWF release, particularly since

1:11:40

it's such a big money deal, but

1:11:42

seven had a unique contract with the

1:11:44

WWF that it enabled him to take

1:11:46

outside bookings and shoot fights. I

1:11:49

Mean, in a different era, perhaps Dan Severn could

1:11:51

have had a much bigger run, but in the

1:11:53

Attitude era, probably just wasn't the best fit, right?

1:11:55

No, it wasn't. But Danny was just a credit

1:11:57

to be in the locker room. Over

1:12:00

in our coach and. Mentors,

1:12:03

A stable. And.

1:12:07

So are I hours that had worked out a

1:12:09

bit better to we thought. We. Had

1:12:11

something their. Course. Of our

1:12:14

hearts, Danny Sovereign. To.

1:12:16

Program him and work with Ken

1:12:18

Shamrock. And. That's.

1:12:22

Kind of the direction we're going ahead. It.

1:12:24

Seem like it made sense. But. Dad

1:12:26

had trouble in the charisma department.

1:12:29

And. Or need

1:12:31

only discover that. And. As

1:12:34

irretrievable. Are you pretty

1:12:36

much screwed? Or. Do you do

1:12:38

now? Our. Garden have

1:12:40

his. His. Charisma Cup is damn

1:12:42

near empty. But. I love

1:12:45

work or dandy hours new and but danny

1:12:47

of be their own time. Hindus

1:12:49

work. To

1:12:52

the best visibility. And he

1:12:54

always did that so. He's. A

1:12:56

cat? A guy that you really want have on your

1:12:58

roster. Because Er Vi on your roster

1:13:00

can't read or the main event. right?

1:13:03

So. He was always going to

1:13:05

V I Utilized. As

1:13:08

him or know he up.e.

1:13:10

Fundamentally. Speak he helped a lot

1:13:12

of young talents. Cause. He danny

1:13:15

I said was a coaches teach her.

1:13:17

Mentor. Ah

1:13:19

anna! A class act.

1:13:22

It's. Just the charisma deficiency.

1:13:25

Video Monday but. Meltzer

1:13:29

would say the general segments of the doing

1:13:31

great quarter hours. Apparently the original idea was

1:13:34

for us to be turned heel as a

1:13:36

way of getting people to accept Coal as

1:13:38

the regular announcer and not seeing him simply

1:13:40

as the guy there until Ross gets Better.

1:13:43

And addition, Ross would be used as a

1:13:45

mouthpiece to try and get see volumes over.

1:13:48

The company expected roster turn heel

1:13:50

in Cleveland by slapping we're going

1:13:52

that The reaction was exactly the

1:13:54

opposite, so they dropped the plans.

1:13:56

Of making him a heel. Man.

1:14:00

has got to be good news for you. I'm getting

1:14:02

good ratings. I don't have to do this silly heel

1:14:04

shit. Yeah.

1:14:07

I like the numbers. Yeah. The numbers

1:14:09

work for me and, uh, they

1:14:13

changed my course, my

1:14:15

direction. Uh, because

1:14:17

we had, we had proof, uh,

1:14:20

within a reasonable doubt that

1:14:23

J.R. Was quote unquote getting over.

1:14:26

I thought I was getting over all along, but

1:14:28

maybe I wasn't. So, uh,

1:14:30

but the heel thing just, it

1:14:33

was just a bad fit. Golly, just a bad fit.

1:14:36

People didn't understand it. Didn't want to buy into

1:14:38

it. And I think when they,

1:14:40

they, they almost went the other way, you

1:14:43

know, when we loved J.R. We're not going to move. So,

1:14:46

Hey, okay. With me, you're

1:14:49

getting $7 and 12 cents ahead at the

1:14:51

house show based on merch totals. That's a,

1:14:53

about $338,000 a week. The

1:14:57

house shows in Pittsburgh drew 13,497.

1:15:01

That's a sellout in Chicago. It

1:15:03

does 18,096, another sellout and Milwaukee. The

1:15:08

very next day is another sellout.

1:15:10

15,950 folks, man. And

1:15:14

I asked every 18 inches. That's just what

1:15:16

the doctor ordered for some updated paydays, huh?

1:15:18

Hey, line figure out this, uh,

1:15:22

let's say that you're looking, you're trying to figure out what

1:15:24

guys are making the main event. Which

1:15:27

would have been Austin. I'm guessing, uh,

1:15:30

he got five points. Meaning

1:15:32

he got 5% off

1:15:35

the net gross. So

1:15:37

that's the gross after taxes. So

1:15:40

if that number is 300 grand,

1:15:43

he would make 15,000 for that day. That's

1:15:46

a good day. Not a bad day short.

1:15:49

And, uh, and he deserved it. He drew the house. No

1:15:52

doubt about it. The guy in the main

1:15:54

event with him would get about 3%.

1:15:58

So Austin made the most amount. He got two

1:16:00

more points than anybody else, but it's

1:16:02

with the way vests and I looked at it. He he

1:16:05

was he was selling tickets And

1:16:07

and this it was a good way to keep him happy you

1:16:11

know one thing you got to figure out is how do

1:16:13

I keep my top talents happy and With

1:16:17

Steve show me the money

1:16:19

and He

1:16:21

loved that aspect of it. So

1:16:23

I'm a I That's

1:16:27

kind of a structure so you

1:16:29

can tell the guys are making a

1:16:31

bunch of cash No,

1:16:33

no making a bunch of cash and and

1:16:36

that that makes it easy to manage

1:16:38

in certain ways And it makes it

1:16:40

challenging because What about

1:16:42

next week? What about next month? And

1:16:46

guys became were also became more aware

1:16:49

of his creative so

1:16:53

It was it was an interesting

1:16:55

time and I'm glad a lot of

1:16:57

guys a lot of guys made enough money in the

1:16:59

attitude era That if they had saved

1:17:01

it They wouldn't need

1:17:03

to work Getting

1:17:06

big big checks now that doesn't

1:17:08

count the royalties Royalty

1:17:11

says another area. Yeah, like

1:17:13

I said here before, you know, Austin had a

1:17:16

quarter a Quarter

1:17:19

time link or he made

1:17:21

a million dollars selling t-shirts So

1:17:24

that's pretty good check to get in the middle of the

1:17:26

year So,

1:17:29

but he he earned it is all percentage

1:17:31

of what was sold not

1:17:33

a percentage of what was ordered What

1:17:36

went out the door? Show me

1:17:38

the receipt. Show me the order or whatever. So and

1:17:42

WWE did a real good job of Monetizing

1:17:46

and keeping up with the

1:17:51

You know Trying

1:17:53

to think of the word I want to use but It

1:17:56

was a good system guys could find

1:17:58

out exactly where they were of the shirts

1:18:00

they sold, Austin lived and died with

1:18:03

that information. He was big

1:18:05

in because he was

1:18:07

designing his own t-shirts. So

1:18:10

consequently he wanted to know what was selling and what

1:18:12

wasn't selling, not just for himself but

1:18:14

for anybody else. What

1:18:16

style of shirt, what's hot right now,

1:18:19

what's trending upward. So

1:18:22

he, but he really invested in that more

1:18:24

so that I would say virtually anybody else

1:18:26

on the roster. You

1:18:29

said it was a good system. Well, let me tell

1:18:31

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1:21:27

how good how this

1:21:30

food tastes if

1:21:32

the food is not worth the shit and

1:21:35

it didn't work it didn't taste

1:21:37

well then you answer your

1:21:39

questions but if you get

1:21:41

a order a box and you start sampling

1:21:43

some of the options

1:21:46

man you're a business that's

1:21:49

how you find out so you

1:21:51

know make yourself an order and

1:21:54

and see where it takes you I

1:21:56

think you'll be very surprised and happy these

1:21:59

companies like this cannot

1:22:01

afford to have average food. Can't

1:22:04

do it because it's a whole new

1:22:06

setup and a new process. You're not

1:22:08

going to the grocery store, buying all these ingredients.

1:22:11

You're not cooking. Uh, you

1:22:13

know, I miss my late

1:22:15

wife, Jan immensely for many things, but

1:22:18

one of them is certain cooking, uh,

1:22:20

cause she's a little Italian gal from Pittsburgh.

1:22:23

So she, she knew the Italian

1:22:26

and, uh, I know in our cookbook,

1:22:29

one of the hottest items that we sold on

1:22:31

our cookbook or not sold, but seeing go

1:22:33

out the door is a

1:22:35

herspaghetti sauce. But

1:22:39

that's just a simple

1:22:41

thing. But if I tasted it and I

1:22:43

didn't like it, then I wouldn't go back

1:22:45

to that recipe. I'm done. I'm

1:22:47

not going to give it a second chance. I'm

1:22:50

hard headed and stubborn and get off my lawn. So

1:22:53

I'm a big fan of, uh, uh, trying

1:22:56

new recipes and things of that nature. And

1:22:59

when you got that all purpose seasoning in your cabinet,

1:23:02

you can cook a lot of things for really good, really

1:23:05

good. So you're in a shot, taste

1:23:08

the food, see if you like it.

1:23:10

It's not going to break the bank. It's

1:23:13

just a really cool way of

1:23:15

facilitating your meals where you

1:23:17

can control them and eat healthy and,

1:23:20

and, uh, do the right thing for

1:23:22

your body. So give it a

1:23:24

shot folks. Good offer out there right now. Check

1:23:28

it out. I think you'll be glad you did. I want

1:23:30

to talk to you a little bit about, uh, some MMA

1:23:32

here. Uh, it's written in the observer

1:23:35

in this era that you had a meeting with Mark

1:23:37

Kerr and Mark Coleman. Now, both

1:23:39

of these guys have made the news recently because the

1:23:41

rock is about to start filming a movie

1:23:44

based on Mark Kerr, who had a

1:23:46

fabulous documentary done 25 years ago called

1:23:48

the smashing machine and Mark Coleman

1:23:50

just made headlines a few weeks ago, uh, what

1:23:52

his house caught on fire and he saved the family

1:23:54

pet, but nearly lost his life doing it. But

1:23:57

the word is in this era, way back in.

1:24:00

99, they seem more interested in curves and he's got

1:24:03

a good look and it's very articulate, although

1:24:05

people that have seen and trained with both

1:24:07

say Coleman is far more advanced when it

1:24:09

comes to pro wrestling. What do you

1:24:11

remember of these meetings and why didn't it happen,

1:24:13

Jim? Money, money.

1:24:17

Uh, these guys are looking for those

1:24:19

big, uh, MMA type pay-per-view, uh, payoffs,

1:24:24

but they wanted it every week. And

1:24:27

that was not to be. This was

1:24:29

mathematically, uh, a

1:24:31

mistake. So, uh,

1:24:34

but the money cash and creative

1:24:36

Conrad two C's it's

1:24:38

generally only something doesn't go through or something

1:24:40

doesn't work. It's generally

1:24:43

because of cash or creative.

1:24:46

Now for the young guy, for the guys from the

1:24:48

MMA world, uh, they're not as, they

1:24:50

were not as versed on creative. Didn't

1:24:52

know how it worked and know where the ideas

1:24:54

came from. Nothing, but they damn

1:24:56

sure could, could, could count their money.

1:25:00

And, uh, I just couldn't, we couldn't get the

1:25:02

dollar. We could get the

1:25:04

dollar big dollars too. Big dollars more

1:25:06

than a lot of our regular guys were making. And

1:25:09

it just didn't just tabulate, but

1:25:12

I enjoyed talking to them. I enjoyed meeting with

1:25:15

them. A good contact for us. And,

1:25:18

uh, but that's the

1:25:20

cash and creative reason is it's

1:25:23

always prevalent. Let's

1:25:26

talk a little bit about Shane McMahon. He's

1:25:28

going to be here in beat Patterson and

1:25:30

Briscoe who were dressed up as an LOD,

1:25:33

which is such a fun visual. The

1:25:35

idea is funny. Shane does

1:25:37

a nice leap and a drop kick

1:25:39

spot with Patterson and there's some

1:25:42

punching and well, the crowd

1:25:44

dies and it doesn't look awesome, but boy, it

1:25:46

sure did look fun at first. I mean, seeing

1:25:48

Briscoe and Patterson coming out here dressed up like

1:25:50

the Legion of doom wearing the shoulder pads and

1:25:52

the face paint, uh, man,

1:25:55

I know that maybe it's not a Mac classic, but

1:25:57

wrestling every now and again, nothing wrong with little fun. This

1:26:00

was fun for me. I agree. I,

1:26:02

I, I enjoyed it because of

1:26:05

my deep respect for Jerry Brisco and

1:26:08

Pat Patterson. Yes. The fact that

1:26:10

they were back at it, they're back in the ring.

1:26:12

That's their stage. Uh, you

1:26:15

know, there's no doubt where the, where

1:26:17

the center ring is on a three ring circus

1:26:19

is in that ring. It's in the, it's in

1:26:21

the square circle. So I was

1:26:23

happy that they got some stretch

1:26:27

and they were having a fun as hell. And

1:26:29

the other thing, you know, they matches

1:26:32

like that and

1:26:34

there may be some, there may be some all in

1:26:36

content, but they're great to

1:26:38

help teach a young green kid like Shane

1:26:41

McMahon, some of the nuances and

1:26:43

Shane's biggest issue was he

1:26:45

tried to work too fast. So

1:26:48

you didn't have time for things to register.

1:26:51

And, uh, that was something that they

1:26:53

had to work with him on because Shane's

1:26:56

got one gear. He's

1:26:58

a, he's a intense, high

1:27:01

level athlete. And

1:27:03

that was a scenario

1:27:05

where working with Patterson and

1:27:07

Brisco couldn't have been

1:27:09

any better for Shane. I don't

1:27:11

know who would have got to have the patience

1:27:15

and the commitment that Jerry

1:27:17

and Pat had and try to help

1:27:19

Shane. Hey, Conrad, by

1:27:21

the way, I got my, uh, ports

1:27:23

out yesterday. Oh, congratulations. That's awesome, man.

1:27:26

I had three of them right in this area.

1:27:29

And the main one is funny

1:27:31

how they, they

1:27:34

just, they pull them out. So

1:27:37

I said, well, we'll do

1:27:39

this. And it's the nurse, uh,

1:27:42

said something along the lines. Well,

1:27:45

you know, we can always give you a something to

1:27:47

deaden it, but deadening

1:27:49

it, taking a shot and

1:27:51

waiting for it to get better is, uh,

1:27:55

a bigger deal than just let me pull it

1:27:57

out. So I'll do what you think. And

1:28:00

there's only one time that it got a little huckering,

1:28:04

a little hurt. But,

1:28:07

boy, I'm sure glad to get those things out there, just hanging

1:28:09

out of my chest. And I haven't,

1:28:12

I've been off my antibiotics,

1:28:15

my oral, my, is it

1:28:20

not oral, but what's the other, intravenous?

1:28:23

Yes. So,

1:28:27

that was a different sucker for me. So,

1:28:30

I'm glad I did it, and I'm glad that we

1:28:32

finally got the damn ports out. I

1:28:34

got two or three days just to leave it alone

1:28:36

and let it heal. But, I

1:28:40

said this on Twitter, I think

1:28:42

it was yesterday, one day this week. It's

1:28:45

a, it's another step

1:28:47

on the road to healing. So,

1:28:50

that's where we are. It's sore today, but

1:28:53

I ain't got to screw with it anymore. So, slowly

1:28:57

but surely, I'm

1:28:59

getting better. I said, matter of fact, I think

1:29:01

Monday, I go

1:29:03

back to the surgeon who finally

1:29:05

has responded to my messages to

1:29:09

evaluate my hip and

1:29:12

tell me what he sees.

1:29:17

I should have had that information a month

1:29:19

ago, but in

1:29:21

any event, that's a little medical

1:29:23

update. Bottom line, I'm feeling pretty

1:29:25

good. Glad to hear

1:29:27

it, man. Can't wait to see you back behind

1:29:29

the microphone. Yeah, pretty good. Well, it's just still

1:29:33

targeting St. Louis. Love

1:29:35

it. I sure hope that works out

1:29:37

because anybody, I would

1:29:42

do just about anything to call Brian

1:29:45

Danielson and Will Ospreay. I

1:29:48

think that's going to be, if

1:29:50

it's not the match of the year, if it

1:29:53

doesn't get five stars, I'll be surprised. I

1:29:58

would be surprised too. I mean, just on. paper,

1:30:01

it's harder to imagine a better clinic

1:30:03

than what those guys are going to do. Yeah.

1:30:06

Let's talk about something that was polar opposite

1:30:08

of Brian Danison and will Osprey. You're going

1:30:10

to come out here on Monday night, raw

1:30:13

with Steve Williams. And as the show was

1:30:15

going on, you got to start building a

1:30:17

new announcers table. I

1:30:20

mean, this is fun silliness, but

1:30:22

not to describe it as Ross came out basically

1:30:25

acting like a guy who's gone postal. Look

1:30:27

at that. If you're watching with us on YouTube. I like that. I

1:30:29

like to, I like to have that. Yeah. Jr.

1:30:32

Is there all that signs should hang behind you right

1:30:34

now? Well,

1:30:38

I'll put it back there and we can relocate it. Yeah.

1:30:40

I'll text Ben Brown when we finish

1:30:42

Ben Brown. The, uh,

1:30:44

what is, what's this title? Archivist

1:30:46

archivist. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

1:30:49

Good. It's nice guy. Great guy. He'll help

1:30:51

you out if you can. Uh,

1:30:54

Meltzer would say it's pretty clear here. The

1:30:57

idea is to portray Ross as a parody

1:30:59

of himself and set up

1:31:01

people to accept Cole as the

1:31:03

quote unquote real announcer of raw

1:31:06

and not simply as the guy. Who's

1:31:08

there while everyone awaits for the

1:31:10

return. And of course, later the

1:31:13

table that you built was broken during the hardcore

1:31:15

title match between Billy Gunn and Bob Holly. And

1:31:17

that's when you're going to leave ringside. What

1:31:19

would you think of this whole me and doc are going

1:31:21

to go out and build a table in front of the

1:31:23

other table? It was silly. Yeah. Silly.

1:31:27

Uh, I understand the

1:31:29

concept, but it was

1:31:31

silly. It's like we

1:31:34

all agreed on the destination. That

1:31:36

was for J R to be a heel

1:31:38

and help get doctor death over priority.

1:31:41

Number one. Uh,

1:31:44

but I, it's,

1:31:48

we're all going to the same destination Conrad. Her

1:31:50

son trying to say, and on

1:31:52

the way to that destination, you

1:31:54

have the option to take a variety of routes,

1:31:58

a variety of roads. to

1:32:00

get there and, uh, the

1:32:03

only thing that saved my ass, I wasn't

1:32:05

miserable creatively, but, uh,

1:32:08

it was reassuring

1:32:11

to see the quarter hour ratings. Cause

1:32:14

there are a lot of nights on Monday night raw where

1:32:16

the J. R. Segment was the top credit segment of the

1:32:18

show. And

1:32:20

that's, that surprised me pleasantly, but it

1:32:22

surprised me. Well,

1:32:26

here's what surprised me. I couldn't believe

1:32:28

they did this, but tiger Ali Singh.

1:32:30

Is out now offering $500 not to

1:32:33

blow your nose on the American flag, but

1:32:35

to do a Jim Ross impression and

1:32:38

Meltzer would say a guy who looked really familiar

1:32:40

to me came into the ring and acted like

1:32:42

his face was frozen and slurred his words or

1:32:45

Austin, Steve Williams came out. William suplex, the guy

1:32:47

on his head. I think he's still

1:32:50

lying in the ring and Baker's field today. He

1:32:52

then gave saying a Dr. Baum and Ross

1:32:54

did an interview and they immediately cut backstage

1:32:57

to McMahon telling white to run them

1:32:59

out of the ring. And they really

1:33:01

treated the raw steel. Like it was a

1:33:03

preliminary angle to get white over. Now,

1:33:07

of course, the guy who's doing the Jr

1:33:09

impression we know is Ed Ferrara. And I

1:33:11

know he would do this again in WCW

1:33:14

and call it Oklahoma, man.

1:33:16

I'm sure Jan had

1:33:19

to be upset watching this. Do

1:33:21

you think this is Vince just trolling to good old

1:33:23

Jr? I mean, what else can it be? I

1:33:26

think so. Yeah. I think he was

1:33:28

trolling a little bit, having some fun flexing

1:33:31

his muscle, his corporate muscle, which

1:33:33

he had all of. And,

1:33:35

uh, you know, obviously

1:33:37

he thought it would work now,

1:33:39

based again, referring back to the quarter hours.

1:33:43

It did work. Yeah. The

1:33:45

numbers were there. Uh,

1:33:47

so, but it wasn't fun

1:33:49

to do. It's what

1:33:52

I'm going to do. I just, we're,

1:33:54

we're going down the wrong road and it's

1:33:56

getting ready to get rocky and unstable and,

1:33:59

uh, At some point in time,

1:34:01

I just want to be happy with my role. I'm

1:34:04

happy with any role because I get paid very

1:34:06

well, but, uh,

1:34:09

it was, it's tough to pull off,

1:34:11

to be honest with you. I just shouldn't feel very

1:34:13

comfortable with it at all during the, during

1:34:15

those times. And there's a lot of folks that

1:34:17

are watching our show today, Conrad, but

1:34:19

I'm sure I've never even seen it. Right.

1:34:22

Cause of the, what

1:34:24

was that? Yep. So

1:34:28

golly, you got a lot of

1:34:30

time has passed a lot of water under

1:34:32

the old bridge, buddy, uh,

1:34:34

to try to remember all the details, but if you're a

1:34:36

band and you're looking, uh,

1:34:39

just a study, here's

1:34:42

how you do a heal. Here's how you don't, uh,

1:34:44

how you make a heal here's how you don't, et

1:34:46

cetera, et cetera. So, uh,

1:34:49

but it was hard times and

1:34:52

psychologically I pulled it

1:34:54

off because I'm my, I've always said

1:34:56

that my ego is too big to not give

1:34:59

my best effort. I didn't want to look

1:35:01

bad. So I guess I

1:35:03

got that a lot of the boys over the years. Uh,

1:35:06

I don't see anything wrong with it. Uh, just, you

1:35:09

gotta be careful. You don't make too much of it. And,

1:35:11

uh, I've met, I was careful that

1:35:14

I didn't live and die with it. When

1:35:16

it was over, it was over. I didn't have any

1:35:18

emotional attachment to it whatsoever. I'm

1:35:21

glad I did it. I kept my job. I

1:35:24

wish more money in the bank, which I like.

1:35:28

Was it fun? No, but fun at

1:35:30

all. Well,

1:35:34

it was fun signing Trish Stratus. I'm sure

1:35:36

there's a note in the observer that he's

1:35:38

not signed with you, but

1:35:40

was told to send a resume to you.

1:35:42

When did you first hear about Trish? How

1:35:45

was she first coming on

1:35:47

your radar? What was your first impression

1:35:49

of meeting Trish Stratus? I think that

1:35:51

I, uh, uh, got connected and hooked

1:35:53

up with Trish through Carl

1:35:55

DeMarco. Okay. For those

1:35:57

who may not know, Carl DeMarco was the to

1:36:00

quote unquote president of WWE Canada. So

1:36:03

we had an office in Toronto and,

1:36:06

uh, I think Trish visited

1:36:09

the office cause she had, she

1:36:11

wanted to get in. And,

1:36:13

uh, and then I got

1:36:15

pictures of her. I got, I

1:36:18

got some video of her playing field hockey

1:36:21

so I could see that she could run, she's

1:36:24

athletic and obviously,

1:36:26

uh, beautiful woman. Yeah.

1:36:29

And she's just as nice then

1:36:33

that she is now. And she's just

1:36:36

a wonderful to be around. Uh,

1:36:39

but the look was, you know, she had

1:36:41

that Pamela Anderson look at that time. Uh,

1:36:44

and so anyway, I, uh, that

1:36:47

was one of my best hires. I

1:36:49

know that when it was over and I signed her,

1:36:52

she gave me a little replica, uh,

1:36:55

grill, it's about

1:36:57

four inches long. It

1:37:00

was a prop little toy. So

1:37:02

she gave me that as a thank you for

1:37:05

taking the time to work with her. And

1:37:08

I don't regret whatsoever. I

1:37:10

still got that prop and I

1:37:13

still have my friendship with

1:37:15

Trish. We communicate not all the

1:37:17

time. She's busy. She's making so many

1:37:19

appearances. I think today, uh,

1:37:21

bull's got, I got three

1:37:24

appearances books. So we'll talk about those at some

1:37:26

point, just give you the dates and so forth.

1:37:29

So it should work out pretty well. Well,

1:37:32

you know what? I hear that bell in the

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right now, blue chew.com. Use that promo

1:40:14

code Jr. Man,

1:40:17

March 22nd, as we were sort of

1:40:19

home stretching it for the big, uh,

1:40:21

WrestleMania moment, this is

1:40:23

one of the more infamous clips

1:40:25

in wrestling history. It's Albany and

1:40:28

it's a beer bath. Austin comes out, he's

1:40:30

spraying beer all over the rock events and

1:40:33

Shane. It's an all

1:40:35

time classic Monday night, raw

1:40:37

WWE stone cold Vince McMahon

1:40:39

moment. I'm pretty sure

1:40:41

you were happy to not be ringside for that

1:40:43

one though. Right? I

1:40:46

wasn't. I

1:40:48

mean, I think you're still doing the heel

1:40:50

announcer deal and they got Michael there. Maybe.

1:40:52

Yeah. I, I, I didn't, I

1:40:55

wasn't angry or hurt that I

1:40:57

missed the beer bath. But

1:41:00

it was a good idea. And it was very visual. It's

1:41:03

a, it was outstanding in that

1:41:05

respect. There's

1:41:07

a backstage brawl that only airs for

1:41:09

a few seconds. Uh, LOD returns and

1:41:11

beats up a Briscoe and Patterson. Of

1:41:13

course, after what they did the prior

1:41:15

week, blue meanie is here

1:41:17

to call out, uh, shamrock. But Ryan

1:41:20

shamrock comes out and he

1:41:22

went to spanker, but Ken came out and beat

1:41:24

up the blue mini. Gold dust

1:41:26

comes out. Shamrock gets him in the ankle

1:41:28

lock, but mainly hits him with the chair.

1:41:32

Hey, the blue meanie, Brian

1:41:34

have front. Great guy. Super nice

1:41:36

guy. Protege of Al snow, I

1:41:38

suppose. Uh, a former

1:41:40

staple in ECW and here he is

1:41:42

now in the

1:41:44

WWF just days before WrestleMania

1:41:46

is in Philadelphia, his hometown,

1:41:49

what can you tell us about the real life

1:41:51

blue mini and his venture into the WWF sweetheart

1:41:53

of a guy? Sweetheart of a guy, uh, got

1:41:57

to live his dream of WWE for a while.

1:41:59

I'll be. short, but

1:42:01

a sweetheart of a guy, uh,

1:42:03

soft spoken, high IQ.

1:42:07

I enjoyed working with Bryant. Just

1:42:09

a real, really a super guy. Agree.

1:42:13

Co-sign. And if you haven't already, if

1:42:15

you're going to be in WrestleMania, if

1:42:17

you're going to be in Philadelphia, go

1:42:19

to mani mania, he's going to

1:42:21

be doing a little tour of the old ECW arena

1:42:24

with our pal Roger who owns the building now, but

1:42:26

he's also having a little meet and greet

1:42:28

and get together at his favorite watering

1:42:31

hole. So let's check out blue

1:42:33

many on social media and find out all

1:42:35

about mani mania. He's your hookup. He's your

1:42:37

tour guide for Philadelphia. I

1:42:40

love it. Yeah. Check it out. So forth and mani.

1:42:43

Yeah. You'll be glad that you'll be glad that you

1:42:45

did just meet them. It was going to be fun

1:42:47

for you. Great guy. You won't regret it. If you

1:42:49

ever see me at a meet and greet or a

1:42:51

convention, go out of your way to go over and

1:42:53

say hello, you'll make a real connection. He'll

1:42:55

probably follow you on social. You guys will be

1:42:57

lifelong friends today. He and I are going to

1:43:00

trade offensive means back and forth. That's what we