0:00

The Ruger Light Rack Security 380

0:02

is easy to shoot and easy

0:04

to rack. Small enough to

0:06

carry concealed or in a purse. Big

0:09

enough to absorb recoil. Learn

0:11

more at ruger.com. They

0:30

don't know that they're actually not

0:32

competent to handle a firearm

0:34

for self-defense. They think they are. Been

0:37

handling my guns all my life. Been around guns

0:39

all my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We heard it

0:41

all before. Ryan was able

0:44

to grab Ernest Langdon, who is

0:46

a top trainer, also does

0:48

a lot of cool stuff with guns and

0:50

gun parts. And it

0:52

was a really interesting conversation. This is, again,

0:54

part of the Gun

0:57

Talk Nation podcast. It's

0:59

bigger than this and I've just carved out a little piece of

1:01

it. You're going to want to go check out the whole thing.

1:04

But I just wanted to grab

1:06

some of this because he's been able to get some

1:09

really good people to interview. And

1:11

Ernest, his take

1:13

on training, I

1:16

thought was really interesting, especially when

1:18

he was talking about getting started

1:20

with your training. And I

1:22

think you're going to be surprised at what he

1:24

recommends in terms of where to go for

1:27

your initial training. Here's

1:29

Ryan Gresham talking with

1:31

Ernest Langdon from Langdon

1:33

Tactical. Today on the show, we

1:36

are very privileged to have

1:38

a very accomplished shooter, a

1:41

multinational champion shooter, gun guy,

1:43

gunsmith, and a great

1:46

trainer, which is all stuff we like to talk about in

1:48

the show. Ernest Langdon, Langdon

1:50

Tactical, welcome in, man. Just

1:52

give people a little bit of background about you

1:54

and how you got to be what you're up

1:56

to today because it's multifaceted with all the different

1:58

things you're up to today. Do in a gun

2:00

gun world. Ah, Yeah, I'll see.

2:04

So. Twelve years in

2:06

the morning for Ah said some

2:08

teaching, both former of instruction, as

2:10

unstructured scout Cyprus cool and I

2:13

later. The. High Risk Personnel

2:15

Program which is an Anti Terrorism shootings goal

2:17

and in. Virtual. Paradigm

2:19

at as rescue team. Then I got our

2:21

the Marine Corps I worked on to work

2:23

for bread. I. Did. Several things

2:26

for them enough when I started

2:28

competing. Seriously, I am.

2:30

I started when I was in the Marine Corps so

2:32

that's not really true. I my first area championship finals

2:34

on active duty. Started. Competing a

2:36

lot of one some national championships and then

2:38

the people were like a you should teach.

2:41

Which. I have already had taught like when I

2:43

was on active duty but then I started com

2:45

on machine authors for a teach and. Then

2:48

started. Full. Time with

2:50

my and tactical he'd seen and

2:52

working on guns. Learning. To

2:54

teach her how to talk about that for

2:56

a little bit. So I mean you are

2:59

an instructor while you were active duty? Correct?

3:01

Is that where you kind of started actually

3:03

learning to teach and instructing people. Absolutely.

3:05

Yeah, absolutely. I've been to prison.

3:08

military has like formal instructions schools

3:10

to where they teach you. How

3:13

to teach. So. Yeah, that's worth

3:15

that's where it started on. And of course. I'm.

3:18

Taking a. A

3:21

remarkable amount of shooting Schools are

3:23

just and you. I. Don't

3:25

know how many. I should probably keep

3:28

count ah, and have a tally, but

3:30

I don't know what it is at

3:32

this. Dozens right? Dozens and dozens. Yeah,

3:34

me know, it's probably close to forty

3:36

or fifty somewhere in there. As mean,

3:39

I started. I went

3:41

to got the gun sight. What?

3:43

Is it to to see the basic puzzle

3:45

in and. Ninety. Nine.

3:48

Three Feet, Ninety Two. Ninety Three. Somewhere

3:51

in there, like after I got Stacey

3:53

to conquer and that Marine Corps sent

3:55

me out there. So I'm. In.

3:57

of chapman academy shaun shaun

4:00

or now Mid-South Institute of Self-Defense

4:02

Shooting. And those are

4:04

all five-day schools. They're not two-day weekend classes

4:06

like we have now. I've

4:10

been to, certainly not that many, but

4:12

been to a handful

4:14

of different shooting schools and

4:16

multiple different classes at those schools. And

4:20

it's hard to communicate with

4:22

someone who is a gun

4:24

enthusiast, likes to shoot, maybe they're kind of good

4:26

at shooting. It's hard to communicate

4:28

with folks what you can

4:30

learn in a multi-day shooting class. Because

4:33

from what I've heard, you probably have some

4:35

good idea of this. There's really not that

4:37

many people who take a multi-day shooting class

4:39

each year. I mean, I've heard

4:42

the number is perhaps somewhere between

4:44

five and 10,000 people total. And

4:47

you think about that in the scope of 90 to 100 million

4:49

gun owners. It's just

4:51

a very small fraction of gun owners who

4:53

are actually investing the time and money to

4:56

do that. It's hard to explain, I

4:58

guess, how would you approach that when

5:00

somebody says, why do I need to

5:02

do a two-day or three-day or four-day class? And what can

5:04

I get out of it? I would say

5:06

that for a lot of them, the

5:08

first thing I would say is most gun owners don't know

5:10

what they don't know. They don't even

5:13

realize how potentially incompetent

5:15

they are in both gun

5:17

handling and shooting skills, especially

5:20

from the standpoint of their

5:22

belief is, or a lot of people's belief,

5:24

is that if they go to the range

5:27

and hey, I can look at

5:29

me, I can shoot a group, hanging

5:31

out here with my buddies, but

5:34

there's no time constraint. There's no social

5:37

pressure on them, none of that kind of stuff. And

5:40

that's nowhere near what it's gonna

5:42

be like if they ever have to use a

5:44

firearm actually to defend themselves or a loved one

5:46

or anything like that. So learning

5:49

from that standpoint, they don't realize that they're

5:51

not really prepared to do

5:53

things at, I Like to use the

5:55

term limit of human function, meaning that if your life's on

5:57

the line, you're gonna do it as fast as you can.

6:00

Humanly possibly can. And they'd

6:02

never tried to shoot. As

6:05

fast as a human we possibly can, they don't

6:07

know what that looks like, smell like, tastes like.

6:09

Not them. But. That's what they're going

6:11

to. In a panic. Situation.

6:15

They're. Not going to understand that until they've

6:17

at least somewhat been exposed to it.

6:19

I'm so. Immersive type

6:21

training where you're doing nothing

6:24

but. Talking about all

6:26

the little details they go into

6:28

doing that. Arm and then

6:30

having to perform another and front

6:32

of other people. Use the

6:34

amount that you can learn and the today

6:37

classes remarkable and you you go to classes

6:39

either go to classes are happy by the

6:41

classes like oh yeah you're not been around

6:43

guns my whole life. I'm good.

6:45

You're like. Oh. Are you

6:47

really. And then you know. Three.

6:49

Or four drill then you to see their eyes are

6:52

wide open your like own my. I.

6:54

Had no. They. Just had no

6:56

idea I'm still. They're exposed to it so

6:58

it's is extremely difficult to explain because if

7:00

you don't go somewhere where that is going

7:02

on. Your just never gonna understand.

7:05

Then. You're in, you say? Well, you don't know what

7:07

you don't know in the problem with and it's true

7:09

in the problem with that as. They

7:12

don't. I just don't understand. Like. Which.

7:14

You could know here. And then there's the

7:16

it's the Dunning Kruger right in. The more

7:18

you learn, the more you realize actually. Now.

7:21

I'm learning how much I don't know. And.

7:23

Now I need a moat. No more. And.

7:26

Yeah, you're right, we get those folks all

7:28

the time who they discharged firearms in the

7:30

same direction as a hobby. Okay,

7:32

cool. You hit the target, hit the berm.

7:34

You know how to load and unload your

7:36

gun? perhaps? But and. I.

7:39

I can almost feel bad for him because sometimes

7:41

I'm not a few you probably have. You've done

7:43

nothing structure. We probably had this happen. People

7:46

are embarrassed or sometimes even want to

7:48

leave the class. And unless

7:50

they're unsafe. Flight. No, no,

7:53

Don't leave the class. You'll. Get there

7:55

and it's amazing! at the end

7:57

of day to. Where. They are. on,

8:00

you know, versus day one, the beginning of

8:02

day one, it's like, look at you, you

8:04

know, you were, we're running drills under time.

8:06

And I mean, you're not Ernest Langdon

8:08

or Rob Latham, but I mean, you're

8:11

competent. Yeah, I know. I I've,

8:13

uh, I've had a couple of people

8:15

leave the class because my class is not

8:17

a basic class. Like it's people

8:20

like, Oh, it's just, it's just tactical pistol skills. Let's

8:22

be fine. And like, with pretty well, like we're shooting

8:24

on the move and shoot multiple targets, a lot of

8:26

stuff. I've only think twice,

8:28

three times ever had to tell someone

8:31

you're done. You're not. So some

8:33

people, they, to your point is like, they have safe

8:35

gun handling, but some people don't, and they don't even

8:37

know they don't think they point the gun

8:39

all over the place. And, you

8:42

know, I've, I've gone

8:44

to the policy at this point in my life,

8:46

if you point your gun at someone else loaded

8:49

or not, you're done. I'm not going to give

8:51

you a chance to do it again.

8:53

Yeah. Can't do it. Yeah.

8:56

I think there are those who have bad gun handling

8:58

and then there are,

9:00

there's also the case of someone

9:02

being so overwhelmed mentally. They're kind

9:04

of going into vapor lock where,

9:07

and I've, I've tried to communicate to

9:09

the folks who've come here. Like, look, that

9:12

can happen and don't

9:14

feel like you have to rush through things

9:16

because the instructor is like, okay,

9:18

reholster, unload show clear and giving all these

9:21

commands. It's like, if you're going, I

9:23

can't even process this. You

9:25

know, it's not, it's okay to just kind

9:27

of like freeze guns pointed down range of

9:29

a safe direction and go, man, I'm sorry.

9:31

I'm just a little overwhelmed right now. Right.

9:33

Absolutely. And that's okay. I have no

9:35

problem with that. And I'm never, we're

9:37

never going to be in that much of a

9:39

hurry that we can't, you can't take your time

9:42

to process what's going on. It's been a little

9:44

bit of my crusade with, you

9:46

know, we've got a media company primarily, but we've

9:49

started offering classes and some experience

9:51

events and things. And, and

9:53

it's like, look, I just want

9:55

you to go get some training. I don't

9:57

care where you go. We can, I mean, We

10:00

don't run enough classes to teach that many people. We

10:02

might teach 200 people a year with 10, 15 classes.

10:07

So go to Ernest Langdon, go

10:09

to Gunsite, go to SIG Academy,

10:11

go to whoever, but like find

10:13

up for a reputable place, which

10:16

can be kind of tough. We get that question, you

10:19

probably get that question. How do you know? Because what

10:21

do you tell someone when they say, well, how do I know if

10:24

it's a good school, if this is a good teacher? Yeah,

10:28

I think that's a really good question.

10:31

I think that for

10:33

the most part, most brick

10:36

and mortar gun ranges do a pretty

10:38

good job of the

10:41

initial, like you've got a gun and you

10:43

need to learn how to shoot. They

10:46

may not, they're not gonna take you

10:48

to the next level of becoming a competitive

10:50

shooter, but at least

10:52

that initial training, like let's take you through

10:54

this because they're a brick

10:56

and mortar gun range, they've got

10:58

insurance, there's criteria in place of

11:01

who can teach stuff normally, right?

11:04

And so most of those do a pretty good

11:06

job of like the bullet comes out

11:08

this end and like, and

11:10

I'm a little bit facetious, but the

11:13

reality is, again, you need that

11:15

kind of stuff because there's a lot of little

11:17

details that are important to becoming

11:19

someone that is competent and safe with a

11:21

firearm. One of

11:23

the things that I know is the case

11:25

is a lot of

11:27

instructors, like big name instructors that are traveling

11:30

the country, their job is not

11:32

to teach you that stuff. Like, so you

11:34

got someone that's traveling the country that

11:36

is teaching at a high level, their

11:41

job is not, hey, here's, they're

11:44

trying to take people to the next level. They're trying

11:46

to really improve their skills. So you

11:49

go start doing your net research and you see,

11:51

hey Donovan Moore, point one tactics is teaching a

11:53

class locally. I'm gonna go to his class and

11:58

they're gonna be drinking from a fire hose. is

12:00

just that would be an understatement. They're getting thrown

12:02

into the deep end right out of the gate,

12:04

not where they need to start. So it's a

12:07

very good question that you're asking is like, okay,

12:09

where does someone make sure they're getting good training?

12:12

So you got to start with some

12:14

good solid fundamental stuff and

12:16

then work your way into other stuff.

12:20

So Ernest says, hey, go to a

12:22

brick and mortar store. So if you're

12:24

trying to get started, you're not sure,

12:26

are you trying to get a friend

12:28

or a relative get going? Just get

12:30

them to a brick and mortar store,

12:33

a shooting range that can get them

12:35

going on the basics. Don't go to

12:37

one of these advanced multi-day classes first.

12:39

You need to be able to handle

12:41

your gun well, safely,

12:44

competently. You need to

12:46

be able to shoot it, load it, shoot

12:49

it again, reload it, and feel utterly

12:51

completely comfortable with that. Because if you

12:53

go to a two, three, four, five

12:55

day class and you can't do that,

12:58

you're just gonna fall behind and

13:00

you're just gonna get frustrated. Baby

13:03

steps, right? And shooting and in

13:05

everything else. Hey, our number here

13:08

is 866 Talk Gun or Tom Talk

13:10

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13:12

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13:14

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13:16

had that epiphany of holy cow, I

13:19

really didn't know the things that I

13:21

thought I knew. Give me a holler, I'd

13:23

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14:04

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14:12

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today at sigsauer.com. One

15:57

of the reasons, among several, one of the

15:59

reasons that... silencers or suppressors have

16:01

become so darn popular. Um, I

16:03

mean, like, why would you, once you start shooting with

16:05

him, you're going, yeah, that just makes all the sense

16:07

in the world. I also

16:10

have said several times, once you get your first

16:12

suppressor, it becomes your first because you definitely want

16:14

more after them. Once you start shooting with one,

16:16

now, whether or not, yeah.

16:18

And you know, I'm a hunter. Now

16:21

that people say, well, I just, I wouldn't fire a

16:23

single shot without suppressor. Well, I do. Maybe

16:26

I shouldn't. Uh,

16:28

I'm not going to wear hearing protection when

16:31

I'm hunting. I have had too many

16:33

animals I've heard before I've seen him. And

16:36

I think the hearing is an important part

16:38

of being able to find animals. In

16:41

many cases, um, I'm willing

16:43

to take one shot without

16:45

hearing protection out there. However,

16:49

and having said that, and

16:51

some of the suppressors I have are the big, heavy

16:53

ones, I don't have one of those super light titanium

16:55

ones yet. If I had

16:58

one of those that might change

17:00

my viewpoint on hunting

17:02

with a suppressor. Um, I

17:05

wonder if anybody has any thoughts on that. If you

17:07

got, if you hunt with suppressors now, how

17:10

that came about, how you made

17:12

that decision and how it's changed your experience

17:15

when you're out hunting, give you a holler eight six, six talk.

17:18

Charlie called in out of a Coosby Oregon on

17:20

two. Charlie, you're on gun talk. What's up. Charlie.

17:29

Okay. Well, I guess Charlie's listening on his radio, so he

17:31

won't be making it on the show. Uh,

17:33

here's the deal guys. Everybody, if

17:35

you get on hold, if you get on

17:37

and you're on hold, you must turn your

17:39

radio off, not down, not low off

17:43

because the delay we have. Is

17:46

you're hearing on the radio long after we've

17:48

actually had the conversation. And then

17:50

you're waiting for your cue to come on the air

17:52

and we've already come and gone and you've missed your

17:54

opportunity. So just kind of a heads up for you

17:56

there. So when Michelle says, turn your radio off, she's

17:59

not kidding. It's not. It's an extraction. You

18:02

must do that thing. So that's the way it goes. If

18:04

you want to join us, 866 talk gun

18:06

gets you in here. Oh,

18:09

this is not good news. At

18:13

the NRA, a fire broke out

18:15

yesterday on the second floor of

18:18

one of the towers at the NRA headquarters. Another

18:21

report is that there was a poor repair

18:23

of the headquarters building. It had been noted

18:25

elsewhere. An electrical transformer

18:27

blew. Their

18:31

vendor quest to do an analysis,

18:33

a review of the status of

18:35

the building, because they

18:37

just have been skimping on maintenance. They haven't

18:39

been taken care of it. The value, the

18:41

appraised value of the

18:43

building has gone down by a million dollars

18:45

over the last year or so. And

18:48

they're not spending the money on the roof, on

18:52

all the other stuff. Of

18:55

course, they will spend $38,000 to fly

18:57

the Lopiers to the Bahamas and $2,900

18:59

to helicopter the

19:02

VIPs to an NASCAR race

19:05

and $10,000 to fly

19:07

in the beautician and cosmeticians

19:10

to events to take care of Mrs.

19:13

Lopiers hair and makeup. But

19:16

they can't spend the money to take care of

19:18

the headquarters building, letting

19:20

it fall apart. The problem

19:22

right now is that we

19:25

still have not had a change in leadership at the NRA. A

19:28

lot of years gone. His same

19:30

cronies are still there. The

19:33

same people who made a mess of it are

19:35

still running the operation. We're

19:37

months away from the second part of the lawsuit,

19:41

the trial actually,

19:43

where the judge will decide whether to

19:45

basically take over the NRA, put a monitoring charge

19:47

of it. I don't know what's going to happen

19:49

there. The judge seems to be reluctant to do

19:51

that, which would be reasonable. So look, if you

19:53

guys conclude up yourselves, we'll let you

19:55

do that. If

19:58

they don't get rid of every. everybody,

20:00

and I mean everybody at the

20:02

top, if they don't fire like

20:04

at least six people at the top, then

20:07

you got the same people running it. The

20:09

same people have been grifting off of the NRA all

20:11

these years. So I

20:13

don't know. I

20:17

don't know where we're going to end up with this whole deal

20:19

of NRA. And the

20:22

loss of the NRA, and it is the total loss at

20:24

this point, is really

20:26

going to show up this year in

20:28

the election. We have a major election,

20:30

obviously, and in elections past, the NRA has

20:32

been there with 25 or 30

20:35

million dollars to spend on campaigns. And

20:38

that has made a difference. That makes a big difference. They're

20:40

not there now. The

20:42

gun ban lobby is there. They're spending money. And

20:47

as much as the Second Amendment Foundation

20:49

and Firearms Policy Coalition and NSSF

20:52

have stepped in on the

20:55

litigation side, the courtroom side, what

20:58

we don't really have much of is

21:00

anybody stepping in with money for campaigns.

21:02

Now National Shooting Sports

21:04

Foundation, NSSF, has formed the

21:06

Liberty Pack, which is a super

21:09

pack which people can donate money to,

21:11

unlimited amounts of money, and that money is

21:13

used in campaigns. But it's a brand new

21:15

pack. It's not funded very well. And we need a bunch of

21:17

money poured into that. I mean, look, if you're a billionaire, you

21:19

want to have a place to spend some money, throw

21:22

some money into this thing, I think it would be

21:24

worthwhile, called the Liberty Pack. You

21:26

know what? But if you want to, if

21:28

you're a billionaire and you want to help with the Second Amendment, give

21:31

me a call. I got an idea or two. There

21:34

are some things we can be doing, should be doing. And

21:38

with the right setup, I would be willing to take it

21:40

on myself. This is

21:42

a crazy idea. Not that

21:44

I need something else to do, but

21:47

I got an idea or two. But the problem is, you

21:49

know, anything like this is going to take serious money. And

21:52

we're not talking about just a few donations, you know,

21:54

off of a GoFundMe page. I don't know if it'll

21:56

ever happen because I don't know. I don't

21:58

know. We're our billionaires. All

22:00

right, our Michael Bloomberg. You

22:03

suck. Donate a lot of money towards

22:05

Gun Band. 866-Talk Gun. How's

22:08

Tom Gresham? This is Gun Talk. Back

22:24

with you here, Tom Gresham 866-Talk Gun or Tom Salk Gun.

22:27

Let's grab line 5. Matthew's with

22:29

us out of Mette, Louisiana. Matthew, thanks

22:31

for your patience. You're on the air.

22:34

Thank you, Tom. I figured out why you

22:36

get these people with their phones, their

22:39

radios on, is because instead

22:41

of hearing your show when I went

22:43

on hold, I heard nothing. Oh,

22:47

we're going to have to see what we can do to

22:49

make sure we're pumping something towards you

22:51

on the phone there. We'll take a look at that. I appreciate the heads up on

22:53

that. Thanks, sir. Tyson,

22:56

how can we help you? So

22:58

I went to Baton Rouge with

23:00

H.T.F. NOLA to

23:03

lobby for the passage

23:05

of constitutional carry

23:08

in Louisiana. And

23:11

a couple of observations. One,

23:15

state senators do not believe their public

23:17

servants. Two is

23:19

the ones who

23:22

oppose us, they don't oppose

23:24

us. They don't, they

23:26

don't, they really believe the stuff

23:29

that comes out of their mouth. They

23:32

are true believers. Well,

23:34

they're also, and I would add this, they're

23:37

also not open to hearing

23:39

any data or any

23:41

information from people who are actually experts

23:44

on the subject. They're

23:46

just listening to the

23:48

political winds that are

23:50

blowing. And so

23:52

they just, the reality is

23:54

they don't care. They just,

23:56

you know, they believe what they believe

23:58

and not open to hearing. Anything

24:00

else. About. Interesting, You

24:02

mention that because we had does

24:04

does a state senators wanted us

24:07

to go away and leave it

24:09

to the professionals? They

24:12

have. A schedules are

24:14

have been hearing which is supposed to be the

24:16

first while a put at the end of the

24:19

with hour work. But.

24:23

We we stuck in there because we were just

24:25

too much it to quit. So.

24:29

We have I noticed we had

24:31

a break for lunch and to

24:33

go through the. Louisiana.

24:36

State capital and usage you're

24:38

going to lunch with. Ten

24:41

dollars? forget about of. So.

24:46

In the hallway waiting for the session.

24:48

the resume. I.

24:50

Notice as the anti gun people

24:53

were instructed by some people that

24:55

they were handlers. College.

24:59

Graduates are mostly

25:01

white women. Who

25:03

instructed the program people not to

25:05

talk to us? And. We

25:08

the ads are done people not much to ask.

25:10

Money which. I'll

25:13

buy their role. Sorcerers way

25:15

are you use those people

25:17

Might have this: these are

25:19

the he'd stare. From.

25:21

Every town for gun safety. This

25:24

is the Bloomberg some. They.

25:26

Hire these volunteers that they manage

25:28

These volunteers and whereas has like

25:30

one feel real to cover for

25:33

states. These folks who put four

25:35

or five people in each state

25:37

and they are working the legislators

25:40

hard and the winners a day

25:42

like this they mud the the

25:44

legislature. So. when we the

25:46

zippers be torn and people out and

25:49

thirty you want to happen it's just

25:51

not a secret is what's going on

25:53

but and me to say this is

25:55

when a css home defense foundation shows

25:58

up as movies legislature This

26:00

is Mike wine. Is it

26:02

wine? Yeah wine burger. Thank you. And

26:05

we call him crazy Mikey I

26:07

mean, I love crazy Mikey because I mean he can

26:09

turn people out and We've

26:12

also occasionally and he loves that we call him

26:14

the trunk monkey So don't don't let me don't

26:16

make me turn loose the trunk monkey Because

26:19

he can turn people out like by the dozens

26:21

and dozens and filled the room where there's a

26:23

hearing so Mike does great

26:26

work. HCF does great work and turning people

26:28

out Yeah,

26:30

I also I do have to also Give

26:33

some compliments to a group that one time

26:35

I thought little of and

26:38

that's nagger Their representative was there

26:40

and he represented our side professionally

26:43

calmly And I

26:45

thought to myself hmm. Okay, maybe there's something

26:47

there. Yeah, they're growing. Oh

26:49

and you you are right and in the

26:52

past National Association of

26:54

Gun Rights was a group I had no use

26:56

for whatsoever And I didn't have a problem saying

26:58

that on the air some years ago They

27:01

have changed and they're doing some very

27:03

good work these days and I got

27:05

a step up and say okay Things

27:07

have changed and this is a different group I

27:09

don't know what happened over there, but they're showing

27:11

up and getting you all I think maybe you're

27:13

right Maybe that's a good way to put it.

27:15

They grew up now to understand how to win

27:17

I think when you start out you don't actually

27:19

understand what it takes to win in these things

27:23

Yeah, no what it takes is persistence what

27:25

it takes is Being

27:27

able to work with the material you

27:29

have because Mike Weinberger is hardly

27:31

a billionaire. I don't even think he has a

27:34

thousand He's

27:36

a dozen here like me Right

27:38

and you just have to work with what you have

27:40

because I can show up

27:42

for these things if I get

27:45

enough notice This was barely enough

27:47

notice because the Senate didn't want

27:49

us there They gave Mike Weinberger

27:51

three working days notice Shoot

27:55

me when I said I needed the time off.

27:57

Well, it's a great point back. I appreciate the

27:59

call So it's one of those things that

28:01

if you belong to these groups, you will get a

28:03

heads up. And a lot

28:05

of times the legislature sets it up where

28:07

they try to not give you enough time

28:09

to show up. They make sure that their

28:11

side shows up, but that the

28:14

gun rights folks don't get the heads up

28:16

and we don't show up. But in this

28:18

case, you guys did and it made all

28:20

the difference. And Louisiana now has constitutional carry

28:23

and is about to pass some other very

28:25

good gun laws,

28:28

not gun control laws, but gun

28:30

laws in Louisiana. Hey, quick break

28:32

here, 866 talk. Gun,

28:34

I'm Tom Grace. You'll be right back. With

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Black Hills Ammunition, the power of

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performance. Hi,

30:31

back with you here. 866-Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.

30:33

That'll get you in. We're talking about pretty

30:36

much anything that has to do with guns if you've

30:38

been out to the range or you bought a new

30:40

gun or you got a question about a gun or

30:42

you're thinking about buying your first gun, give me a

30:44

holler. We can help. It doesn't really matter what you're

30:47

working on. There's a pretty good chance we'll

30:49

have, if not a total solution,

30:51

at least point you

30:54

in the right direction. Okay? Again, the

30:56

number here is just easier. Tom Talk

30:58

Gun. Microc call it in

31:00

out of Sedona, Arizona. Hey, Michael, you're on Gun Talk.

31:02

How can we help you? Hey,

31:04

how you doing today? Great. Thank you. Not

31:08

too bad. Thank you. I just actually have

31:10

a very quick question. I just bought a

31:12

Church Hill 612 12

31:15

gauge shotgun and

31:17

I'm just wondering, it takes

31:19

two and three quarter and three inch shells. I'm

31:21

just wondering what the best ammo is for home

31:24

defense. But it's not going through

31:26

the person and my house and my neighbor's

31:28

house. Okay. Let

31:33

me back up because the

31:35

question about choosing

31:37

ammo for self defense or home defense

31:39

shotgun can be a little bit complex.

31:42

What kind of background do you have

31:44

in training with a shotgun

31:47

for home defense? So

31:49

I don't have any actually I have

31:52

pistols and I've shot them before, but

31:54

I've never actually done any home defense

31:57

shotgun training. Okay. Here's

32:01

the thing to understand. Buckshot

32:03

is a really good choice. Doesn't really matter

32:06

to court or three edge. I'd probably go

32:08

to his with warheads. And

32:11

will go through several points. Here.

32:13

Are a shotgun does not. In

32:17

the distance across most rooms and most

32:19

houses. Even. Have a very small pattern

32:21

and talk about Us pattern the size of a

32:23

dinner plate. That's as big as

32:25

going to be. So. You have to

32:28

aim at very carefully. So.

32:30

I would be a really good idea to put some

32:32

sized of some sort on that going to be. Also

32:34

you need to go to the rains and shoot it.

32:37

At ten feet. And

32:40

see what the pattern is. See where it

32:42

suits. And. Get used to shooting

32:44

at multiple times. Ah, if

32:46

you could take a class and in

32:49

software shudder news that be really good

32:51

idea. Now let's talk game of her.

32:53

Second buckshot will go through all the

32:55

walls of your house. Period. It's going

32:58

to leave your house. And

33:02

og what will leave your house. Your

33:04

nine millimeter pistols will leave your house.

33:08

Almost everything will go through all the walls

33:10

of your house, which means what you really

33:12

need to do is hit the person and

33:14

not anything else. Starts.

33:19

To get complex, doesn't it? A

33:22

little. The yes does it does. There's

33:24

There's a lot more to it the

33:26

most people understand. Okay here's the

33:28

weird part. You know what does it go through all the was

33:30

you have your house and a are fifty. No

33:34

kidding. I. Know, right?

33:36

You're right. There's no escaping. over

33:38

and know. And I tasted

33:40

the tested as many times. And they

33:42

are fifteen while generally not leave your

33:45

house if it has to go through

33:47

three waltz. Buckshot will.

33:49

Nine millimeter will. Forty

33:52

five? well but not. and they are fifteen route

33:54

even if it's full metal jacket. people go really

33:56

Yes, really. So. Just gonna food

33:58

for thought. ah You are

34:00

in Sedona, you are not far

34:02

from Gunsite Academy, one of the

34:04

best shooting schools in the country.

34:08

What is it called? Gunsite, G-U-N-S-I-T-E,

34:10

it's just north of

34:12

Prescott. Oh, awesome,

34:15

okay, thank you. Gunsite, okay.

34:17

Gunsite, gunsite.com, G-U-N-S-I-T-E, check

34:19

it out. The classes

34:21

are not cheap, but

34:23

they are worth every penny. So I would say,

34:27

look into it, see if it's something you

34:29

can pull off. Once you go there, you'll

34:31

go, holy cow, I am so glad I

34:33

went, okay? Gotcha,

34:35

thank you so much, I appreciate it. Absolutely,

34:37

appreciate that. Let's go to Mike on

34:40

five out of Anchorage, Alaska. Hello, Mike.

34:43

Yeah, hello, Tom. Say,

34:45

I've already filled out my ballot

34:47

for the voting

34:49

for the NRA directors, the

34:51

four proper candidates that need

34:53

elected. Right. I'm a

34:55

little confused by the language

34:58

in the additional ballot

35:00

measure to the proposal

35:02

to amend the NRA

35:04

bylaws to add the

35:06

chief compliance officer, evidently a new

35:09

position to that. What's your opinion

35:11

on that? You

35:14

know, this is one of those where I don't

35:16

fully understand what's going on, so I have to

35:18

go to the people I trust. And

35:21

Jeff Knox tells me to vote for that. And

35:25

so, okay, Jeff, I'll go with what you say.

35:27

So all I can do is pass along to you

35:30

that Jeff says to vote for it. I did. And

35:33

I would say probably that's an okay thing to do. Well,

35:37

that's more information than I have before,

35:39

Tom. And I like you. Like

35:42

you, I will trust Jeff Knox and

35:44

fill it in. Not that I'm a

35:46

sheeple and follow everything, but other

35:49

than that, it is confusing. It

35:52

is. And for

35:54

those who are wondering, yeah, you can vote

35:56

to what, like 25 or something. Vote for

35:58

these four. Only these four. Uh,

36:01

it's a vote for field

36:03

journey, Rocky Marshall, Dennis, Faruso

36:05

and Jeff Knox. Uh,

36:08

so, I mean, that's what we're doing. And see what,

36:11

look, we understand this may not make any difference

36:13

at all. We're in a never,

36:15

never land right now with the NRA. Who knows

36:18

what's going to happen. But you

36:20

know, you do what you can do, right? So

36:24

I don't know, but I, Mike, I appreciate the call,

36:26

sir. That's kind of where we

36:28

are with this thing. If you didn't get

36:30

all those names and you have your NRA

36:32

ballot for the board, you're

36:35

not sure you can go to

36:37

firearms coalition.org firearms

36:39

coalition.org. And

36:42

they have the names right there. You can look them

36:44

up and vote for those. So

36:48

how many rounds do you carry?

36:52

And further than that, because

36:55

a lot of people carry like six rounds

36:57

on a revolver, okay, if

36:59

you carry a semi auto, you

37:02

carry a single stack gun with eight

37:04

or nine, you carry a double

37:06

stack gun. And then this gets to

37:08

be really interesting. Do you carry a spare magazine?

37:13

You know, it's one of those deals that the chance of

37:15

you needing your gun slim, the

37:17

chance of you ever needing the

37:19

extra magazine or infinitesimally small, but

37:23

me, I carry an extra magazine. Why?

37:25

Cause I, you know, do

37:27

you look at the news, there

37:30

are going to be more

37:33

incidents, more attacks

37:36

of multiple bad guys coming in and

37:38

shooting up places. There

37:41

already are multiple bad guys

37:43

doing carjackings and everything else.

37:46

Look, probably on the carjacking, you're all going to

37:48

be over in hurry. If you

37:50

get multiple bad guys, as in terrorists, determined

37:52

people who are coming in to shoot up

37:54

a place. I,

37:57

it doesn't take a lot of imagination.

38:00

I don't think. The.

38:02

Come up with scenario where you're going to

38:04

be lot of ammo. Even

38:06

if is just to keep other people's heads down to

38:08

keep the heads down on the bad guys. How

38:11

much does not? I don't know. Ah

38:13

encounter think a to double stack mags

38:16

and a nine. Is.

38:18

Kind of a sweet spot. maybe? I.

38:20

Do know people here to extra mags for the

38:23

get three magazines. I don't

38:25

know what the never as and I guess what I'm

38:27

asking is what do you carry. And

38:29

how does you come to that?

38:31

Have was the process of the

38:33

weather's that's all I could carry

38:35

in comfort. The are just it's

38:37

uncomfortable. Oh I don't think I'll

38:39

ever need that for I'm quite

38:41

comfortable. carry what I carry myself.

38:43

There's no right or wrong answer

38:46

your scores. I know we're just

38:48

kind of figured out. Your abs

38:50

You come to that. and maybe

38:52

if you explain your thought processes

38:54

that will help me solidify and

38:56

work on my thought processes. I

38:58

don't know and. Six. Be

39:01

right back. To

39:10

forget we talk deliberate about

39:13

something send how cannot go

39:15

have a cursory. Know enough

39:17

Kevin Garnett and Kj Far

39:19

staff talk about them. Slit

39:21

about that. You

39:24

know I loved. I loved the game hunting. I.

39:26

Was just on a when shooting hot

39:28

last weekend though they did last week

39:30

with the show from the Hudson headquarters

39:32

in Kansas City and then I went

39:34

out with them to a shooting preserve.

39:37

Us how we were able to do

39:39

some hunting and march. A

39:41

we were shooting thousands and quail and

39:43

shocker and have been a a great

39:45

time. And. Part of

39:48

it was flats to a reminder of

39:50

bird hunting off and social than whereas

39:52

big game hunting is generally not. you're

39:55

by yourself. Be quiet. And

39:57

just enjoying. The

40:00

conversation and keeping up or catching

40:02

up with people, there

40:05

are so many different ways to hunt and

40:09

different people get different things out of it. It's like,

40:11

if you're one of those who just wants to go

40:13

hike in the mountains and do that all by yourself,

40:15

great. There's a way to do that. If

40:17

you like, you're more of a social animal, go

40:20

on a good pheasant hunt. We all walk in a

40:22

line and you can talk and you're walking up birds

40:24

and doing that whole thing. Do

40:26

you really like dogs and watching the

40:28

dog work? For a lot of bird

40:31

hunters, upper bird hunters, watching

40:33

the dogs is the

40:35

thing. That's really why they're out there.

40:38

It probably wouldn't even hunt if

40:41

they couldn't work their dogs. Just

40:44

it all depends. I

40:46

am of this kind of solitary

40:49

approach. I

40:51

like to get on the side of a mountain and

40:53

sit there for a while and have

40:55

my binoculars and glass the area and see

40:58

what starts moving. Now I've got

41:00

our good friend Mike. He hits the ridges and

41:02

just goes and goes and goes and goes. I

41:05

don't know if he sees more game doing that

41:08

or if I see more game by sitting

41:10

and letting the animals move. You

41:12

can argue it either way, but

41:14

I don't think he can stay still. That's just

41:16

his makeup. For me, I love

41:19

just sitting there and watching everything happening around

41:21

me. I find that once—and this

41:23

is whether it's in the mountains or in the woods

41:25

or something—when you get there and

41:27

if you can sit down and be still, I mean

41:29

really, really still, it's

41:32

like you disappear and

41:35

the animals start moving again. Because when

41:37

you walk in, you're just observing everything

41:39

and you don't really see everything. But

41:42

once you sit down and start becoming

41:44

visible, after 10, 15, 20 minutes, you

41:46

start hearing

41:48

squirrels and birds and maybe deer and

41:50

skunks and raccoons and everything, who knows

41:52

what walking all around. And

41:56

the process that—when I stay still and talk about if

41:58

you move your head like from right to left, it

42:01

might take 30 seconds to

42:03

move your head 90 degrees one way or the other.

42:05

That's still where you basically

42:07

become a statue out there. It's

42:10

amazing what you can see when you do

42:12

that. There's

42:14

no right or wrong way to do all this. Well,

42:17

there could be. I mean, I

42:20

think for me, I guess everybody's got their individual

42:22

take on it. For me, hunting is

42:25

about being part of the

42:28

nature scene, if you will. I describe

42:31

it as some people say, well,

42:33

can't you just go out there and look at the animals

42:35

and not shoot them? Well, yeah, that's

42:37

being a voyeur. I don't

42:40

think you're a participant. I don't think you're an

42:42

active participant in nature that way. You're

42:45

just out there looking. And I

42:48

do that sometimes. I do photography. I do nature

42:50

watching and all that. When

42:52

you go hunting, it's different. It's a different feel. You're

42:54

doing a different thing. You're actually part of

42:57

it. And that's the

42:59

part I really like. I don't know. It's

43:01

just, it's different for each person and it's

43:03

okay to analyze it. And honestly, for most

43:05

of us, it changes as you go through

43:07

the years, as you get older, you're

43:09

looking for different things. Sometimes you're saying, I just

43:11

want to take people out and have them enjoy

43:13

it. I want to take a youngster out and

43:15

introduce her to hunting.

43:18

And that becomes what you wanted. No longer

43:20

am I looking for the biggest or the

43:22

most or whatever. I'm definitely

43:24

looking for the experience. We'll talk about that when

43:27

we come back and hope that you can join.