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welcome back to Gun Talk. Tom Gresham here. If you want

0:16

to join us, it's pretty darn easy. 866-TALK-GUN

0:19

or call me at Tom Talk

0:21

Gun. We love cool

0:23

guns, obviously, and we like to

0:25

see activity, actually sometimes

0:28

frenetic activity on the part of some gun

0:30

makers because some kind of sit there, don't

0:32

do a whole lot, nothing much changes, and

0:34

then you see one and you go, wow,

0:36

what's going on over there? That is really

0:39

interesting. Well, joining me right now is Buck

0:41

Pearson. He is the Chief Business Development Officer

0:43

of Staccato. You probably know

0:46

them originally as STI. Buck,

0:49

STI in Texas became Staccato. What

0:51

was that transition and what's that

0:54

about? Well,

0:56

really, the company changed

0:58

hands, I think, is fairly public

1:00

knowledge. New ownership, new management. The

1:03

reason that the company was purchased was

1:05

really the owner and some other people

1:08

that are executives now, including our CEO,

1:10

had shot the pistols and just thought

1:12

they were absolutely wonderful, which

1:14

is really the reason why so many competition users were

1:16

using them is nothing shoots like a 2011. They

1:20

wanted to be part of that and they wanted

1:23

to expand the offering of the 2011 to more

1:26

than just competition shooters. Let

1:29

me jump in. For those who don't know, 2011, we're talking about

1:31

a double stack 1911. That's the whole

1:33

idea behind a 2011. All right, go ahead, please. Correct.

1:36

It uses a two-piece frame with

1:38

a polymer grip, which makes the

1:41

grip is not enormously large.

1:44

The recoil characteristics of it are very different

1:46

from any other gun. Competition

1:49

shooters were using them forever because it was

1:51

like bringing a race car to a local

1:53

race at the county fair. We

1:57

wanted to bring that to everyone who was

1:59

a shooter. enthusiasts, not just competition shooters.

2:01

And that's kind of where the idea

2:04

of Staccato started. All right.

2:06

Well, what are the things you've done and your, your background

2:08

as a Marine, you came in and along with some other

2:10

vets and you said, you know, where are

2:12

we in the law enforcement world? And the

2:14

answer was kind of non-existent and you changed

2:16

that. Yes. So

2:18

I came on board because I was

2:20

actually a personal friend of

2:23

our current CEO, Nate, and

2:25

I had been shooting with him for a couple

2:27

of years before I knew that he was even

2:29

affiliated with STI. And he

2:31

talked me into coming to work with work for him

2:33

and kind of help him out with some product development

2:36

and some sales stuff. Uh, my

2:38

first reaction when shooting at 2011, I think I

2:40

literally said it, debate on the ranges. Like I

2:43

wish I had had something that shot like this

2:45

when I was in the military. Uh,

2:47

you know, the pistol is generally the

2:50

hardest weapons platform to

2:52

learn how to be proficient with. Um,

2:55

so I was highly interested in the brand because of

2:57

that, because I'd never tried a 2011 before. So

3:01

when I came on board, you know, getting

3:03

you jumping straight into the deep end, essentially

3:05

in sales, uh, I

3:07

realized that we had zero law enforcement footprint.

3:09

And in my mind, that was very strange

3:12

for a handgun company. When

3:15

you look at the benefits of what

3:17

I perceived the benefits, I should say,

3:19

uh, the 2011 were, I couldn't understand

3:21

why you wouldn't want to sell to

3:23

law enforcement, knowing that your average patrol

3:25

officer, their primary weapon system is a

3:27

handgun. Um, will you

3:29

look at how active SWAT teams are throughout our

3:32

country, you know, doing a very dangerous job day

3:34

to day? Why wouldn't you want to provide them

3:36

with something that they could perform better with? And

3:39

that's kind of where the whole law enforcement

3:41

thing got started for cicada. And let me

3:43

throw out what probably was the contrarian view

3:46

that you ran up against, which is, Oh,

3:48

it's not a block. It's not a simple

3:50

point and shoot. You actually have to understand

3:52

how to manipulate and how to operate this

3:54

gun. And we can't possibly expect

3:56

police officers to know how to run a

3:58

1911. or 2011,

4:01

right? Exactly. That was, that was one

4:03

of a few points that are always brought up.

4:05

And, and I think in this

4:07

day and age, that the easy button on

4:09

the thumbs safety on the 2011 platform is,

4:11

Hey, it's in the exact same place it

4:13

is on your AR 15 patrol rifle. So

4:16

the manual arms is identical. A

4:18

lot of people never really correlate

4:20

the two, but coming from the military, you know,

4:23

the thumb safety star in the same place on

4:25

our most at almost every weapons platform. And

4:27

if you can take an 18 year old kid out of

4:30

high school and teach them how to work a manual safety,

4:32

you can teach anyone too. Right. Oh, right. A

4:34

lot of people got over that fact pretty quick after

4:37

just spending, you know, 10 or 15 minutes dry

4:39

firing on a range. It's funny. I

4:41

just did that with somebody. I said, you know, here

4:43

we go. You know, it's, uh, you know, as

4:45

the gun comes up, safety comes off as the gun

4:48

comes back off the target, the safety goes back on.

4:50

We're going to do this for like two minutes and

4:52

they go, Oh, I got that. That's

4:54

not hard. Yeah. Of course it's not hard. People

4:56

have been doing it for a hundred and some

4:58

odd years from John Browning. Exactly.

5:01

And it's one of those things

5:03

where if you reemphasize training as

5:06

the baseline for anything, then

5:08

you can truly look at different products

5:10

as either being something that's going to

5:12

aid you in better performance versus

5:15

just a different price point of something. So

5:17

we want to bring performance to the table

5:20

across the board for all consumers, not just

5:22

for competition shooters. I think

5:24

it's the underlying tone here. So would

5:26

this be, what an STI, I'm going

5:29

to correct your cicado pistol be

5:31

something you would put in the hands of

5:33

your average patrol officer, or is this primarily

5:35

for SWAT units or

5:38

more trained units? It

5:41

started with SWAT and

5:44

because of the mass of adoption of

5:46

SWAT teams and everything

5:48

that they were experiencing using the

5:50

platform, we started to

5:52

get massive department

5:55

approvals across the country where any

5:57

patrol officer at any level would

5:59

be allowed to use and carry one on duty. And

6:02

I say massive, we went, so when I started the

6:04

law enforcement sales kind of in the summer of 2018,

6:06

we had no departments. And as

6:08

of today,

6:11

we have over 1500 departments

6:13

nationwide, we're all the right the

6:15

use of our gun, department wide

6:17

use of our gun. We

6:20

went from no SWAT teams in 2018 to

6:22

now we have 90 SWAT

6:24

teams in the country that are using

6:26

the pistol as the issued pistol. And

6:29

a lot of those I'll say about 70

6:31

of those are major city SWAT teams. They're

6:33

not, you know, small part time teams, they're

6:35

full time teams that are 30 to 50

6:37

officers where that's all they do is SWAT duty.

6:40

So we've grown rapidly in five years, and

6:43

it really comes down to the

6:45

performance of that pistol when you train, you've

6:48

got your baseline of training, an officer

6:50

generally can pick up that pistol and

6:52

will shoot better with it. That's

6:55

not an anecdotal sales

6:57

pitch. In the beginning,

6:59

we had numerous departments that were changing their

7:01

qualifications because the officers all started shooting perfect

7:03

on them with our gun. And they were

7:05

like, Well, this is too easy, we need

7:07

to make it harder. So

7:10

it's it kind of happened much quicker

7:12

than anyone expected. And it's continuing to

7:15

grow at a very rapid rate. We

7:17

know the essence of shooting

7:20

is hitting, is hitting the

7:22

target or the threat or whatever

7:24

we're shooting accurately. And

7:27

everybody, look, I'm

7:29

an older guy, I grew up shooting 1911s.

7:31

I love 1911s. I got a bunch of them.

7:34

And every time I take somebody who grew up on

7:36

polymer and put a 1911 in their hands, of course,

7:38

the first they say, Well, what's the big deal? Why

7:40

do you guys talk about these all the time? And

7:42

then they start shooting and they go, Oh,

7:46

oh, oh, and it's like,

7:48

Oh, I'm hitting targets. The triggers are better. Oh,

7:50

this is like, Yeah, exactly. That's what we talked

7:53

about. So in your case, you put a staccato

7:55

in their hands and it probably didn't take them

7:57

very long to figure out. I actually hit things

7:59

better. with this than I did before. Absolutely.

8:03

And one of my favorite stories that

8:05

just happened in my time here is

8:07

there is a police department in Alaska where

8:10

the whole department fielded the pistol, the staccato

8:12

P to issue to the officers. And

8:15

I stayed in contact with the chief of

8:17

police at that department over the last few

8:20

years. And one of the first things that

8:22

happened within six months of fielding them is

8:24

he had to triple his department's annual ammo

8:26

allocation because the guys were going to the

8:28

range almost every day to train with each

8:31

other. And we said prior to

8:33

these, when they had Glock 17, they

8:35

would only go once a month because I made

8:37

them go basically because they weren't fun to shoot.

8:40

Now they have a pistol that's fun to shoot. And

8:43

the downstream effect of that is these

8:45

officers are all training dramatically more. And

8:47

to me, that's the biggest one because

8:49

if you can get officers training, they're

8:52

going to perform better in those high stress

8:54

situations when it matters. And

8:56

that's a huge thing for me. And

8:59

for the staccato. I was having a conversation just this

9:01

week with a top competitive shooter who trains

9:03

a lot of three letter

9:05

alphabet kind of agencies and all. He

9:07

said, you know, the goal here is

9:09

to get to the point where you

9:11

shoot so much, you get that, we

9:14

call it unconscious competence, where you actually don't

9:16

have to think about the manipulation of the

9:18

gun as you are problem solving

9:20

a complex situation. And that's, I think what

9:22

you're describing here is that the more you

9:24

shoot, the better you get out of it.

9:26

And you know what, you got to shoot

9:28

more when it's fun and hitting is more

9:30

fun than missing. Exactly.

9:33

If you can get officers to

9:35

get in the mindset of developing their hard

9:37

skills, you devote all of their

9:40

mental bandwidth to solving the problem at hand and

9:42

not worrying about how they're going to

9:44

shoot. Yeah. And I think that's very important in

9:46

this day and age, especially. Okay.

9:48

Let's take that. Obviously, this is

9:50

an incredible success story. What's going on at

9:52

staccato. And now you've got

9:54

not just duty size guns, you

9:56

have guns that a lot of people are saying, I'm

9:59

going to do this. I'm gonna have this gun

10:01

for my concealed carry, my everyday carry, with

10:03

tens of millions of people carrying

10:06

guns for their own protection these days, a

10:08

certain percentage of them are gonna say, yeah, it's

10:11

worth it to me to spend the dollars, and

10:13

this is not an inexpensive pistol, to say I'm

10:15

gonna upgrade the experience, the gun, the training, and

10:17

I'm gonna carry something that I can really bet

10:19

my life on. So talk to me about the

10:22

models for just a second, so for people who

10:24

have not seen the staccato lineup. Yeah,

10:26

absolutely. So I'll start with the smallest,

10:29

the staccato CS, which is our smallest

10:31

carry gun we make. It

10:33

is, we released it about a year and

10:35

a half ago, and it's done very, very

10:37

well for us, surprisingly well. And

10:40

I carry one every day, it's my favorite

10:42

carry gun I've ever shot. It

10:44

still shoots very much like a 2011,

10:46

despite its size, and it still has

10:49

full-size gun capacity. It's a 16 plus

10:51

one small carry gun. We

10:54

started some new things on that pistol.

10:57

We started with an external

10:59

extractor that we had been developing for a couple of

11:01

years. It has a

11:03

9mm dedicated magazine, so it's not a

11:05

traditional large 2011 magazine, it's

11:07

a very small magazine. It's

11:09

still having that capacity, and it just shoots

11:11

very well. I've

11:14

never shot another three and a half inch

11:16

gun that shoots as good as that, especially

11:18

never one that it still has full-size gun

11:20

capacity. So if you're looking

11:22

for a concealed carry one, that's

11:24

my absolute recommendation. And traditionally, a

11:26

short barrel 1911, it was difficult

11:28

to make them run reliably. How

11:30

did you solve that? So

11:33

it was a lot of things. That gun was an R&D

11:36

lifecycle of a couple of years spent working on

11:38

it. So it was a

11:40

combination of some ways we machine

11:42

the frame different, and Dave Dawson

11:44

from Dawson Precision developed a dual

11:47

captive recoil system for it that

11:49

works very well on that gun.

11:51

And just kind of looking at it from

11:53

an engineering level, as well as bringing in

11:55

some, you know, 30 plus

11:57

year gunsmith knowledge with Dave Dawson. and

12:00

some other gunsmiths and looking at it and

12:02

really attacking the problem and then doing

12:04

the testing on it. So within our R&D

12:07

department, any new product, and this started really

12:09

with the CS that we launch, we're

12:12

doing multiple iterations of 50,000 round

12:15

endurance testing on per gun to

12:18

make sure that we have everything right before we launch it

12:20

to the market. Wow. Buck,

12:23

we're not gonna be able to cover the whole

12:25

line cause you've got a lot of guns. I'm

12:27

gonna send people to the website. It's cicado2011.com and

12:29

cicado is S-T-A-C-C-A-T-O. It's

12:33

two C's, one T at the end. So

12:35

cicado2011.com. Correct.

12:40

Amazing stuff, great product, but what

12:42

you have done with the company

12:45

is as much an accomplishment as what you have done

12:47

with the product and just a big hats off to

12:49

what you've been able to do. Well,

12:52

thank you very much. It's

12:54

really something. For those who want a

12:57

really fine gun that

12:59

really shoots well, but also is rugged and

13:02

you can bet your life on, I

13:04

would suggest this is one you ought to take a

13:06

look at. I mean, in the end, that's what your

13:08

guns are all about, isn't it? That's

13:11

correct. And they all have a lifetime warranty.

13:14

We're all about post-sale support. It's

13:16

not a financial transaction for us.

13:19

So we wanna know our customers and we spend

13:21

a lot of time and effort getting to know

13:23

our customers, bringing them out to the ranch, taking

13:25

them on tours, all of that. So

13:28

once you're into the brand, we don't want you

13:30

to lead the brand. That's our kind of overarching

13:32

mindset to everything we do. Yeah,

13:34

it's funny you say it because I see that

13:36

online people, it's like they buy their first cicado

13:39

and then they're immediately starting to plan what's

13:41

gonna be their next one. Yep.

13:44

We have so many customers that email us

13:46

or call customer service just to tell us

13:48

that they have one of everything now and

13:50

they're so happy about it. And

13:53

that's what we're really going for. We want our customers,

13:55

regardless of what they do for a living, we want

13:57

them to be happy. We want them to be proud.

14:00

out of the brand and what they have because we know they

14:02

have to work to earn. They're not inexpensive,

14:04

as you said. Uh, the

14:06

average person can't just go out and buy, you

14:08

know, five, $2,000 plus pistols.

14:11

That's not the reality in today's

14:14

DNA. So we're, we're super proud of

14:16

our customers and happy that we're making them happy,

14:18

I guess would be a good way of putting

14:20

it. There you go. That is the ultimate boat

14:22

of commerce. Buck Pearson, thank you so much for

14:24

your time. Yeah. Thank you,

14:26

Tom. I really appreciate you having me on. Absolutely. All

14:28

right. 866 talk. Gun will be

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It simply will. I'd like your

16:01

family to share another room for comments.

16:21

Yeah, it's in the middle of the conversation with

16:23

Buck Pearson from Staccato. I

16:26

have a thought. Think about,

16:29

well, these are very good pistols. I mean,

16:31

a high-end 1911, or in this case a 2011, is just a thing of

16:33

beauty. It's

16:36

just when you shoot one, you go, oh,

16:38

wow, that's really good. And

16:42

I completely understand some of

16:44

these are darned expensive. These are called

16:46

$2,500 guns. And

16:51

you can spend almost twice

16:53

that easily on some of the very high-end

16:55

1911s. That's

16:57

not for everybody. It's not. Not everybody

16:59

can do that. Especially not when you

17:01

can buy you a really good functional gun,

17:04

pistol, for $500 or $600, or even less. What's

17:12

it do for you? There

17:16

are some takeaways when you shoot a gun

17:18

like that that I don't think a

17:20

lot of people think about. That you can

17:22

take it back to your gun, even if you're not going

17:25

to buy one of these. And that is, let me

17:28

throw this thought out for you. Shooting

17:31

is really simple. Shooting

17:34

is actually simple, and

17:36

it can be, not necessarily is, but it

17:38

can be easy. Shooting

17:40

well, hitting the target

17:42

can be easy. Now

17:44

shooting faster than hitting the target requires a lot of

17:46

work. But shooting well

17:48

isn't a target. I mean, really think

17:50

about it. You got to hold the gun steady,

17:53

you got to line up the sights, and you

17:55

have to activate the

17:57

trigger without disturbing the sights, without pushing.

18:00

pulling the gun off the target. If

18:02

you do those things, the bullet goes to

18:04

the target where you aimed. A

18:07

good trigger makes that easier

18:09

to do. It

18:12

makes it seem like you are a better shooter

18:15

than you are because you are you're better than you

18:17

had been because your equipment

18:19

was possibly making it more difficult for you

18:21

to press the trigger all the way back

18:23

and have the gun

18:25

go off without disturbing the sights without

18:27

moving the gun off the target. But

18:31

if you shoot a gun in 1911, 2011,

18:33

just a very nice

18:35

gun, borrow a friend's gun, whatever,

18:39

and you shoot it really well, here's

18:42

a thought. Why couldn't you say, okay,

18:44

what did I do there that

18:47

made me shoot better? I mean, it's

18:49

not necessarily that the gun is more

18:51

accurate. Chances are your gun is

18:53

actually pretty accurate. If you were to put it into

18:55

a rest of a ransom rest,

18:58

a vice, basically, it probably

19:00

would shoot pretty well because

19:03

you're pulling the trigger and not disturbing the sights,

19:05

you're not disturbing the gun. It's not moving before

19:07

it goes off. Well, just

19:09

take that lesson and go, okay, well, why don't

19:12

I take what I did with this other gun,

19:14

which I shot so well, and

19:16

do that to my gun? What's

19:19

that going to require? How do I do

19:21

that? It's

19:24

something we talk about a lot. We end up back

19:26

at the same place. It's like we just go around

19:29

and around and around. It requires concentration.

19:31

It is a mental effort.

19:36

And what that means is you have to

19:38

be thinking about the right thing.

19:41

And in this

19:43

case, in shooting the right

19:45

thing, it centers

19:48

around the trigger. So

19:52

you're shooting a two-pound match

19:54

trigger and shooting really well. Okay,

19:56

great. Now you're going to go back to your six-pound Spongy,

20:02

striker fired, polymer, plastic, a

20:04

Wonderfantastic thing. Okay, great. You

20:08

can still shoot it better by saying I'm

20:10

going to make it feel like that

20:12

light trigger. How do I do that? I'm

20:15

just going to keep pressing the

20:17

trigger and not try to figure

20:19

out when it's going off. That's one of the things

20:21

that happens when you shoot a really good trigger. You

20:23

don't actually know when it's gonna go off, in many

20:25

cases. You just press the trigger, wow, it just went

20:27

off. Look at that, but it went

20:29

right into the bull's eye. Well, with

20:33

a heavier trigger, you're trying to make

20:35

it go off. Again,

20:39

this starts to sound a little less esoteric.

20:41

It's a metal thing. Press the trigger and let it go

20:43

off. Press the trigger and let it go off. Keep

20:46

looking at the sights, hard focus on the front

20:48

sight, or if you have a red dot. And

20:52

I have very quickly become an

20:54

advocate of optics. You

20:56

just shoot better with them. You

20:58

do. And with a

21:00

little work, they become faster. At first, they're a

21:02

little slower because you need

21:04

a technique. But

21:08

you just shoot better and just work on trigger,

21:10

trigger, trigger. Here's your 30-second lesson

21:12

on how to get better with a red dot,

21:14

how to find the red dot when you come

21:16

out with your gun. Don't

21:19

start from a low position. Don't start from

21:21

the holster. Start with your gun on target

21:23

with the dot on the target. Both hands

21:25

on the gun. Now, break it

21:27

back towards you and out of your line of

21:29

sight very slightly, just so it breaks out of

21:31

your line of sight. Maybe it goes down two

21:33

inches is all. Then bring it

21:35

right back up and you're looking at the sight. Look at the

21:37

red dot. The dot's right there. Then

21:40

you break it back down, bring it two inches off your

21:42

line of sight, and then push it right back up, over

21:44

and over. You're down out of the line of sight.

21:46

You're back up in the line of sight. You're down

21:49

out of your line of sight. You're back up. I'm

21:51

doing it right now. There's my two hands. When

21:53

you do that, you'll find that sooner or

21:56

later, actually sooner, you'll start being able to

21:58

bring your hands down lower. them back

22:00

up. And then even lower them back

22:02

up. And before you know it, you'll

22:04

be able to draw from your holster,

22:06

press the gun, it presses out, and

22:08

you line it up, and there's the

22:10

dot on the target. All I have

22:12

to do is press the trigger. Not

22:23

the visible surprise anyone, I'm guessing. But

22:25

the New York Times has admitted that

22:27

it's New York Times bestseller list of

22:29

books is actually just

22:31

editorial content. It's not a list of the

22:33

best-selling books at all. So the editors have

22:35

the ability to remove any book they don't

22:37

like for whatever reason.

22:40

So if there's a conservative book that's

22:42

like a bestseller, it just doesn't appear on

22:45

the New York Times bestseller list.

22:47

So it's not really

22:50

a bestseller list. It's a books

22:52

we like that have sold a few

22:55

copies list from the New York Times. What

22:58

does that matter? It doesn't really accept that

23:00

it's just one more example of the

23:03

feed we get. It's

23:06

hard to know what's real anymore. And I've got to

23:11

tell you, I think that's probably true when you're

23:13

getting a conservative feed. If you

23:16

go back and forth as I do, between

23:19

Fox News, CNN, MSNBC—you

23:21

can try some others, but

23:24

that's all you need. What

23:26

you're going to find is there's so much BS throughout all

23:28

of it. And I

23:30

think Fox News is just as bad

23:32

as any of the others on their

23:34

side. And the idea

23:36

that they actually call themselves news is

23:38

ridiculous. It's just Fox political talk. There's

23:41

no news there. If you want to

23:43

find out what's happening in the world,

23:45

you've got to go dig somewhere else. You've

23:48

got to work on it. The other

23:50

part of that is your social media feeds

23:53

where you generally go is just

23:55

full of stuff that is

23:57

sent to you. from

24:01

the algorithms, which is

24:03

artificial intelligence, which is

24:06

computers, watching what you go

24:08

and click on and then saying, we'll send

24:10

him or her more of that to

24:13

keep you engaged, to keep you addicted

24:16

so that we can continue to sell you

24:19

stuff. It's

24:22

not unusual. It's not even, I

24:24

don't think, sinister. It just

24:28

puts you in a bad position if you're not

24:30

aware of it. And if you somehow are just

24:32

accepting it as, wow, everybody's saying

24:34

this everywhere I go, people are talking about

24:36

this. Well, yeah, because

24:39

they're feeding it to you because that's

24:41

what you like. Cause they can tell

24:43

that, you know, just food for thought there.

24:47

Here's a question for you. Do you

24:49

have a home defense gun, handgun,

24:52

rifle, shotgun, what's

24:56

best handgun,

24:59

rifle, or shotgun? By

25:03

rifle, I would, I

25:05

think we can eliminate bolt actions. I

25:09

don't, I don't think we can or should

25:12

necessarily eliminate lever actions. Cause I

25:14

think a lever action

25:16

could be actually a pretty effective home defense

25:18

gun. You give me a lever action in

25:20

357 or 44 or 45 and anywhere from seven to 10 rounds in it,

25:29

that'll take care of most situations. I think,

25:33

how about an AR? If

25:36

you have an AR for home defense, how

25:39

do you equip it? What

25:42

do you have attached to

25:45

your AR as a home defense gun? Do

25:47

you have a light? Do

25:49

you have a laser? Do

25:52

you have an optic, either

25:54

red dot or green dot or

25:57

scope, low powered variable

25:59

optic? PVO. Do

26:02

you have a, you know, here's

26:04

one for you. Do you have a sling

26:07

on your home defense long gun,

26:10

shotgun or rifle? Why

26:13

would I want a sling? I'm not walking around with

26:15

it on my shoulder. No, you're not. But

26:18

you may need your hands for something and

26:20

you may not want to put your gun down

26:23

in the middle of a situation. A

26:25

sling is simply for that. And

26:27

there are a lot of different kinds of slings. I

26:30

like simple, I like a simple strap sling. You can

26:32

put it over your head and shoulder. You can put

26:34

it just over your head, around your neck. If

26:37

you got to let go of it, it just hangs. And you can

26:39

pick it right back up and you can shoot it with the strap,

26:42

the sling still around your neck, just over

26:44

your head. So

26:46

if you have a choice between a home

26:49

defense shotgun and a

26:51

home defense rifle, eliminating the handgun

26:54

for a minute, where

26:56

do you fall on that? What

27:00

is your choice? And

27:02

I say that kind of personal

27:05

experience. I was just open

27:07

to safety the other day. I looked at

27:09

the end and went, wow, there's a couple of really nice

27:11

home defense shotguns in there and I don't have them out

27:14

for home defense. Why

27:16

is that? And I

27:18

do have ARs. I went, huh, how

27:22

did I move from the home defense

27:24

shotgun, which is an excellent choice. It

27:27

gives you a variety of loads. You

27:30

can use different kinds. You can buckshot, slug,

27:32

whatever. You do have to know how to

27:34

use those, but the choices

27:36

becomes a burden to know

27:39

what to do with them, which to choose, and

27:41

how to use them, and when to use them.

27:43

And do you have a side saddle on your

27:45

shotgun with extra ammo? Because you could switch out

27:47

ammo. Do you practice any of that? The

27:50

AR course gives you rifle level

27:54

power. It also

27:56

gives you more Ammo. And Let

27:58

me just throw this thought out. Can.

28:01

I suggest that all your magazines you load

28:03

them down by two. Or. Three.

28:06

Download. I'm two or three rounds of. You get

28:08

to thirty round mag, Twenty seven, or twenty eight rounds at

28:10

all. Generally. Speaking.

28:13

traditionally. You. Can

28:15

get better seating, better malfunctioning.

28:18

If. You download your mags is low, but

28:20

honestly I don't. Think. In

28:22

most cases, The.

28:24

Diversity: Twenty Eight thirty is going to

28:26

be. The difference for you.

28:30

As we say, It's not.

28:33

Probable. That you need

28:35

this. but it's possible. He.

28:37

Would need. This is not. Probable.

28:41

You would need a for your a

28:43

magazine but it's possible. And

28:45

you're not. Guaranteed.

28:48

Does not mean it's impossible. Or

28:50

I wanna come back our talk

28:53

about that because I just had

28:55

some friends com essa you know

28:57

that class we took where we

28:59

studied that country, medicine and survival

29:01

and all of that for scientists.

29:03

had use that last night and

29:05

probably save somebody's life. That

29:08

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like a couple of teenage kids and

31:00

I'm sending pictures to Jim during the

31:02

break. Oh yeah look at this thing.

31:05

Okay fine. Hey 866

31:07

talk gun will get you in here. I'm Tom

31:09

Gresham. Let's see here. Let's go talk with Jerry

31:11

out of Grier, Colorado. He's got a question for

31:14

us. Hey Jerry what's on your mind? Well

31:17

Tom I've got a Ruger

31:20

LCR snubby little short inch

31:22

and seven-eighths inch barrel and

31:25

I'm wondering, I'm having a hard

31:28

time finding jacketed or even plated

31:30

bullets. I'm wondering would I have

31:32

problems leading up that

31:34

barrel if I shoot just like standard

31:36

red round lead bullets?

31:39

You may get a little bit of

31:43

leading but leading is easy to get out of a

31:45

barrel but the thing is you don't

31:47

have enough velocity there to be stripping a lot of

31:49

lead off. That's

31:51

what I was wondering. Yeah so

31:53

you're gonna be loading for the

31:55

380? No. My

32:00

little LCR, I'm sorry, I didn't give

32:02

the caliber. It's a 327 federal, but

32:04

I want to practice with 32 Smith

32:07

and Wesson long. Gotcha, I was thinking

32:09

LCP, sorry, my mistake. Yes,

32:11

you should be able to find plenty

32:13

of lead bullets for

32:16

32, and I

32:18

think it would work just fine. Here's the other thing.

32:21

What a lot of people are discovering, and

32:24

the top people who are teaching self

32:26

defense with revolvers, is

32:29

they are actually encouraging people to consider going

32:31

to hardcast lead bullets

32:33

for their defensive loads, non-expanding

32:36

wad cutters or semi-wad

32:38

cutters. It's like

32:40

we're going back 60 or 70 or 100 years, and

32:43

they're saying, you know, with these little

32:45

guns, one of the things

32:47

you don't get with expanding bullets is penetration. Also,

32:49

you don't get much expansion out of them, and

32:52

why not go with a hardcast lead bullet

32:54

that's going to have destruction throughout

32:56

and get deeper penetration? I

32:59

actually think it's a pretty good idea. Okay,

33:03

yeah, I mean, I want to use the 32

33:05

Smith and Wesson long for practice,

33:07

but I'll look into that for a

33:10

carry load. Would you have any particular

33:12

that you'd recommend? Take

33:15

a look at, let's see, double

33:17

tap ammo is starting to load

33:19

32. Here's what's happened. Lip

33:22

season Smith and Wesson just introduced,

33:24

they're ultimate carry revolvers, and

33:27

two of them are in 32H and are

33:29

Magnum. As a result, there's a lot of

33:31

interest in self-defense loads in 32H and R.

33:35

And so some of the smaller companies, and maybe

33:37

eventually some of the bigger companies, are going to

33:39

start loading for it, but take a look online

33:41

at double tap ammo and also

33:43

Buffalo Bore, because I know that Peter over there

33:45

said he's going to start loading up some. They're

33:48

not going to be cheap. These are not your

33:50

practice loads, and they're going to be beefy, but

33:53

they're going to work really well, and I

33:55

think you would like them. So I would

33:57

say start with Buffalo Bore and double tap.

34:00

and see what they have in the way

34:02

of lead bullet loads for your 32. Okay.

34:06

Great. Well, thank you, sir. Absolutely.

34:08

It's a good choice. That's a good revolver.

34:10

Appreciate the college area. Thompson Fargo. He's on

34:12

for a time. What's on your mind, sir?

34:16

Yes, sir. Just a home defense stuff. When

34:18

I lived in northern Minnesota, my

34:21

guns were a model 12

34:23

12-gauge always double-ought

34:25

in the chamber and triple-ought right beside

34:28

it, depending on what I needed to

34:31

protect from like bears. That

34:34

was a big thing. Bears and timber wolves. Or

34:38

I didn't say, of course, I didn't, of course, I

34:40

didn't say timber wolves on the radio and

34:43

then also good 22. I

34:46

had 22. I'm

34:49

trying to think, I'm trying to think of the gun

34:51

that just blanks me right now. But 10

34:54

22. Ruger. Yeah. Ruger

34:57

10 22 with hollow point.

34:59

Always hollow point because that's not going to

35:01

penetrate, but it's sure going to knock it

35:03

out. And then for longer distance and

35:06

older 30 30 Winchester 30 30 and then now

35:10

I live in the city and I just purchased

35:12

and I'm in my sixties. I've never purchased a

35:14

hat gun till recently. I got a 38 a

35:16

Ruger 38. Okay.

35:20

And so that's but

35:22

this is a little bit different

35:24

where we live. It's really really

35:26

safe area and an apartment house

35:28

in the area where we live

35:30

is pretty safe. But as for

35:32

home defense shotgun, I'll tell

35:35

you that even an animal will

35:37

take notice of cycling

35:40

one in they'll they'll notice that.

35:43

No, I just tell you let me just

35:45

tell you that that's a really bad idea. Nobody

35:48

pays attention to the cycling. That's

35:51

a made-up thing that we came up with. I

35:53

don't know who did. But the idea that you're

35:55

going to scare somebody off by cycling the gun

35:57

is a terrible idea.

36:00

Well, number one, it means that the gun

36:02

was unloaded in the first place. He did

36:04

not have one in the chamber. She gave

36:06

away one round. Number two, you just told

36:08

the bad guy where you are by signaling

36:10

that with that. You know, the first time

36:12

I want him to know where I am is when

36:14

I say, get out of my house and fall right

36:16

after that with a gunshot, if you want. So

36:19

let me just kind of get that

36:21

idea out of people's heads. The movie thing

36:23

of I'm going to cycle the gun and

36:25

scary something away. You know, if

36:28

it's a critter, if it's trying to eat you, shoot it. If

36:30

it's a person who's trying to hurt you, shoot him, you

36:33

know, but trying to scare him away with a noise, you

36:35

know, get an air horn if that's what you want. I

36:37

appreciate the call, sir. Um,

36:39

he mentioned a 10 22. We

36:42

were at the range and I forgot we were shooting long guns

36:44

too. We shot 10 22 and a savage semi auto in

36:47

17 HMR for targets.

36:52

We had one of those great big

36:55

gallon jugs of cheese balls,

36:57

cheese puffs, and just put them

36:59

out on the ground at the range. It was

37:01

so much fun. And we're talking about it 50 to

37:03

75 yards. And these

37:05

are what three quarters of an inch across small. And

37:09

we're just hammering them with both those

37:11

guns, even just a stock Ruger 10

37:13

22. I

37:15

just read an article. It's interesting from

37:17

a guy who really knows this stuff about self-defense.

37:20

He said, you know, I would not feel

37:22

under gunned in a home defense situation with

37:25

a Ruger 10 22. And

37:28

I know there are going to be a ton of people go, you're got it.

37:30

They kid me a 22. You go, well, you know

37:32

what? Give me a 30 round mag or 20 round mag in 10

37:34

22. And

37:38

you can absolutely go to town with

37:40

one of those. You can shoot so fast and so accurately

37:43

put a red dot on it. Now

37:45

we're seriously hitting what we want to hit,

37:48

whether it's center mass or head shots. Remember

37:51

the goal is to make them go away. If

37:53

they die, that's just kind of the Natural

37:56

and logical consequence. Occupational Hazard to be a

37:58

bad guy. But

38:00

whole goal is to make him go away and

38:02

is just not like ten or twenty shots like so

38:05

i decided wants to not be there anymore. Is.

38:08

It a good idea. I don't know is a

38:10

bad idea. I don't know. It's an idea. And

38:13

I just pass along the girls

38:15

personal i respect in self defense

38:17

world would just thrown out as

38:19

an idea What? Ah. That's.

38:21

Good stir something's up the idea of

38:23

users who kids want you to or

38:26

any twenty two. As yourself

38:28

to feals gun. So. I

38:30

just got to go out there.

38:32

There also seems to be a

38:34

little bit of increased interest in

38:36

revolvers in Twenty Two Magnum. I

38:40

don't think that's a bad idea

38:42

some you consider of off of

38:44

okay yeah still be able hit

38:47

which was Utica. Bought a twenty

38:49

two magnum revolver on figure why

38:51

not on board you fall on

38:53

that rifle shot guns, handguns and

38:56

is a twenty two something you

38:58

would consider. So

39:06

talk about Susan. Reverted to reduce. If

39:08

you don't have one, should everybody to

39:10

you're shooting everybody out. Have a river.

39:12

Ten Twenty Two. As a stickler for

39:15

sixty years, the they make them for

39:17

sixty years. Think it's right. Virtually

39:20

unchanged, relatively inexpensive,

39:22

they just. Shoots.

39:25

And. To get all these great magazines,

39:27

forum and you. Just. Shoot

39:29

Him In are cheap to put up

39:31

a sign, a bill, scope on or

39:33

red.are just similar sites that matter. It's

39:35

just tons of have. To. Undergo

39:37

introduced to my to shooting at routine to reduce A

39:40

great way to go. Or we

39:42

were sued now. or Sim cards rains yesterday and

39:44

shoot nose or puffball spot with cheese balls to

39:46

spots or the most wonderful things you can to

39:48

suit the heck out of them. and you don't

39:50

have to become up. Next. Rain will take

39:52

care of him or the bird to take care of my

39:54

whatever. so. Just. Big Old

39:56

Jog Your Cosco or Sam's

39:59

Club jogger. of cheese puffs and

40:02

just sprinkle them around. I would not do that at

40:04

an indoor range. You might not get invited back. Just

40:06

say it, okay. Just throw that one out for you

40:08

there. As

40:13

you examine your personal

40:15

situation, oh, I forgot, let me do the quick

40:17

story. I forgot to tell the story. My

40:19

friends and I went to a back

40:21

country medical seminar last year and we

40:24

learned a lot. And

40:26

our friends, Brad Monique made up, Monique made

40:28

up kits for their kids with

40:31

fire starter, shelter,

40:35

plastic bags, bandages,

40:37

all the rest of it. Where the

40:39

son, Darren, had to use it

40:41

last night. A sewer beeler

40:43

went off the trail, got stuck, couldn't

40:46

get back up, had not

40:48

many clothes on, just like one of those

40:50

little athletic super suits, onesie kind of a

40:52

thing. It was seriously hypothermic

40:54

and they were able to get him

40:57

out and then use

40:59

all of this stuff, fire starter, extra

41:01

clothes, plastic bags, our

41:03

garbage bags are really good at insulator, by the

41:05

way. And they basically saved

41:07

his life. All of that

41:09

to say that I realized

41:12

it's low probability we will need any of

41:14

this safety gear, but that doesn't mean no

41:16

possibility, okay. If you

41:18

have it, you didn't know how to use it. If

41:21

you don't have it, shame on you because you

41:23

may need it and you can save your life,

41:25

the life of your loved one or somebody else

41:27

as you go along. That

41:29

applies to firearms, fire extinguishers,

41:32

medical equipment, survival gear. Yeah,

41:36

you can be that person. I am that guy, okay.

41:38

I'm the guy who's got the sleeping bags,

41:41

and all the stuff at the back of the car in the winter. And

41:43

I got the shovel, I got the stuff. I

41:47

have had to use it. I have

41:49

used CPR on people after

41:53

situation. You

41:56

got to figure that out what works for you, but I'm just

41:58

saying that you May be. The Dipper Three some

42:00

I live in and die. And.

42:03

That's a commitment. We. Talk about commit

42:05

alive. That's a commitment. And. Requires

42:08

recurrent training. That. Commitment as

42:10

well. But it also gives

42:12

you a really good feeling about yourself. And

42:15

games Other people a good feeling protect your family

42:17

about. You have your the one who's gonna be

42:19

helping to take care of them. So.

42:22

I just know that apple, whatever that is

42:24

worth, are you part and parcel that's figured

42:26

out? What gun works for you Actually, what

42:28

does your like. I. Am

42:30

going to get a double stack nine eleven?

42:32

I don't know which one. Maybe staccato, maybe

42:34

somebody elses? I'm not sure. Do.

42:37

I need another pissed off course. I

42:40

do. It's a silly question. Course.

42:42

I do. How. Many do

42:45

I need. Just one more

42:47

is all I need. Just

42:49

the one more. That's.

42:51

Reasonable much is it. Doesn't help

42:53

me out with that. Still call. Will

42:55

talk about A during the after show.

42:57

Eight Six Six Talk Guns In the

42:59

meantime check me out over on Twitter

43:02

I am had gone taco very good

43:04

look for gun talk media on Facebook

43:06

and Instagram The A for our videos

43:08

on Youtube everywhere else. Reply concept like

43:10

fab. Check out Range Ready studios.com in

43:12

order to replace those shoes. That is

43:15

that classes as stop operating as we

43:17

can and roof over their enemies. I'm

43:19

as a commitment free with your. Guns.

43:22

Carrier Gun V. Aware.

43:24

Of for a places where you

43:26

might need your guns.