0:01

Hello, I'm Fern Cotton, and this

0:03

is Happy Place, the show that

0:05

gives voice to silenced parts of

0:07

ourselves. Today I'm chatting

0:09

to Crystal Hefner. When I

0:11

first moved in, I was told there

0:13

was like a restaurant-style kitchen. I could

0:15

order whatever I wanted. So I thought,

0:17

wow, let's test that out. And I

0:19

got fatter. I remember Hef like kind

0:21

of tapping my thigh and said, he

0:23

said, it looks like someone needs to

0:25

tone up. So instead of just

0:28

lashing back at him at that time, I thought, oh, I

0:30

can do better. Oh, no, I'm slipping. I need to be

0:32

the best. So that's when it started

0:35

unraveling when my physical appearance started

0:37

getting controlled because more stuffs, more

0:39

things started happening physically that

0:42

he controlled. Crystal is

0:44

a world-renowned model, advocate

0:46

and entrepreneur. She was

0:48

21 when she went to a party at

0:50

the Playboy Mansion. Hugh Hefner picked

0:53

her out of the crowd and her life

0:55

changed forever. Soon she was

0:57

one of his infamous girlfriends. She traveled

0:59

the world. She went to all the

1:01

glamorous parties. But as she's now revealed

1:04

in her book, Only Say Good Things,

1:06

there was a dark side to this

1:08

gorgeously alluring lifestyle. Hef

1:10

governed the lives of his girlfriends with

1:12

strict rules on everything from how they

1:15

looked to how they spent their free

1:17

time. Crystal was made to

1:19

compete with other women for a spot

1:21

in the highly hierarchical system, something she

1:23

did very well. She rose to

1:26

the top and married Hef in 2012. She

1:29

became Crystal Hefner, but the mansion

1:31

became her prison. Reading

1:34

this book, I mean, I couldn't put it

1:36

down. There were bits that were sort of

1:38

horrifying to read and moments where my jaw

1:40

was on the floor, but

1:42

you really can't stop turning

1:44

the pages. Before Hef

1:47

died in 2017, he made Crystal

1:49

promise to only say good things

1:51

about the time she spent in

1:53

his world. Now, after

1:55

all those years of silence, she's ready

1:58

to expose the misogyny at Playboy's

2:00

call and the really devastating

2:02

effect it had on her health. Welcome

2:08

to your daily affirmation. Repeat

2:10

after me, working with others

2:12

is easier than ever. I

2:14

strive for perfect collaboration. Our

2:16

teamwork keeps getting better. Yeah,

2:18

affirmations are great but monday.com

2:20

can really get you the

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teamwork you desire. Work together

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easily and share files, updates, data

2:27

and just about anything you want

2:29

all in one platform. Affirm yes, to

2:32

start. Or tap the banner to go to

2:34

monday.com. Right,

2:40

this is it. Here's the show. Can

3:04

the rest of the people hear us? They

3:06

can all hear us. Okay. I bet you

3:08

can. Every word. Crystal,

3:10

welcome to Happy Place. It's so lovely to

3:12

have you here. Thanks for having me. And

3:15

also, welcome home because I hadn't realized until

3:17

reading your book that both your parents were

3:19

British and you spent quite a lot of

3:21

your childhood here as well. Yeah, yeah. I

3:24

spent the first eight years of my childhood

3:26

here. And you grew up in a pub

3:28

over here. The old Rose and Crown. Yes,

3:30

I did. People

3:33

in America don't really understand that, you know,

3:35

the house is like above the pub. Yes.

3:37

Like, oh you lived in a bar. Yeah,

3:40

technically yes. Yeah. What

3:42

does it feel like to go into pubs when

3:44

you're in the UK now? Do you get that sort

3:47

of hit of nostalgia and smelling

3:49

the smells and hearing the sounds?

3:51

Yeah, I love it. I love

3:53

it. I love all that stuff.

3:55

Does it feel bittersweet because obviously

3:57

your British dad was a musician

3:59

here and in the States and

4:02

he died which seemed to have a huge

4:04

impact on you growing up. Does

4:06

it feel bittersweet coming back here? Yeah it's

4:09

nice even the flight attendant on the plane

4:11

he had a you know British accent and

4:13

he was kind of older and like oh

4:15

it feels like home. It

4:17

was very nice it's nice

4:20

to be back. It was really interesting reading

4:22

about your parents and

4:25

their dreams and aspirations because they moved

4:27

to California before you were born and

4:29

then again after a stint

4:31

here you went back to California as a kid

4:34

and they and you were very aware of

4:36

this dream they had to make it to

4:39

have their name in lights to live the

4:41

American dream. That seemed to have a sort

4:43

of a lasting effect on you. How did

4:45

that impact you you think

4:47

sort of knowing about their dreams and

4:50

what their aspirations were? Yeah I think

4:52

subconsciously their dream became my dream and

4:54

I think that's part of why I ended up

4:56

at the Playboy Mansion because it was glitz and

4:59

glamour and Hollywood in

5:02

a beautiful place and at that time Playboy

5:04

was huge and powerful and so being there

5:06

you're like wow I've made it. Yeah

5:08

so let's rewind to you age

5:11

21. I was about to

5:14

say you got invited to a party

5:16

at the Playboy Mansion but there's actually a bit of a

5:18

process to get accepted to a party

5:20

so tell us how you ended up at

5:22

the Halloween party when you were 21. So

5:25

in order to go to a party you have to submit a

5:27

photo and get approved

5:29

that way and so I submitted a

5:31

photo I didn't think I'd

5:34

be approved I was very insecure at the time

5:36

and I got

5:38

approved so I was surprised

5:41

and I went up to the mansion with a

5:43

friend who also got approved. So you're at this

5:45

party and your eyes wide

5:47

just looking at the whole situation

5:50

it's as bold and bright and brilliant

5:52

as you'd imagined and you

5:54

can see Hugh Hefner sat behind some

5:57

ropes. He spots you. you

6:00

over and you are

6:02

that evening the chosen one how

6:04

did that evening feel that moment

6:06

playing out? Oh my goodness so

6:08

my friend is very extroverted so

6:10

she dragged me over to the

6:12

ropes where he was in his

6:14

cabana and she started waving and

6:17

he looks over at her waving

6:19

and then his gaze kind

6:21

of fell on me I remember like

6:23

kind of looking behind me like me

6:25

and yeah he's like

6:27

come here and whatever hef wants hef

6:30

gets so his security immediately started you

6:32

know trying to move

6:34

everybody out of the way so they could get me in the cabana

6:37

with him and yeah and I was

6:39

on the other side of the ropes all of

6:41

a sudden and in with hef

6:43

and my soul probably left my

6:45

body it was a weird

6:47

out-of-body experience for sure and

6:50

it's so funny because often you know growing

6:52

up we've all seen whether it's paparazzi pictures

6:54

or in films someone behind a red rope

6:56

and it looks so exclusive and so special

6:59

but reading your book it

7:01

seemed like that first well the first

7:03

weekend you spent at the mansion actually

7:05

felt like that it wasn't kind of

7:07

there was no facade at first it

7:10

felt like you were in this sort of

7:12

magical world magical experience yeah it felt like

7:15

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and he

7:17

was Willy Wonka you walk around and

7:19

there's carved wood everywhere and there's a

7:21

you know there's a gym and tanning

7:23

beds and a game house

7:26

tennis courts you walk around you

7:28

know how this place is beautiful and

7:31

you just feel that you're part of something

7:34

powerful and incredible you

7:36

say in the book that it felt like you'd been

7:38

yanked out of your drab little life to

7:41

something much more exciting when

7:43

did that start to fade

7:45

that feeling when

7:48

I first moved in I was told

7:50

there was like a restaurant style kitchen either were

7:53

chefs like three or four chefs at a time

7:55

and I could order whatever I wanted I thought

7:57

wow like let's let's test that out So

8:00

I would order french fries and

8:02

grilled cheese and all the American stuff

8:04

that's not the best for you. And

8:07

I got fatter. I weighed

8:09

134 pounds, which is nowhere near... No,

8:12

I didn't. Yeah. ... nowhere

8:14

near fat. But I remember heft like kind of

8:16

tapping my thigh and said, he said, it looks

8:18

like someone needs to tone up. So

8:22

at that time, instead of just lashing

8:25

back at him, at that time I thought, oh, I can do

8:27

better. Oh no, I'm slipping. He's the

8:29

best. So I hit the gym and

8:31

lost a bunch of weight back down to 115. And

8:36

yeah, that's when it started unraveling.

8:39

When my physical parents started getting controlled

8:42

because more stuff, more things started

8:44

happening physically that he controlled. It

8:48

seemed like the psychology around that time,

8:50

well, throughout your whole stint, 10 years

8:52

at the Playboy mansion, that

8:55

that was really played on

8:57

the insecurity, pitting you against

9:00

other women. And as

9:02

you alluded to a moment ago, you

9:04

went into this experience with low self-esteem

9:07

already. So what did that do

9:09

for your confidence, being sort

9:11

of picked apart for what you look like or

9:13

pitted against other women? I

9:15

think it was very hard. I

9:17

thought Playboy was a place of freedom

9:20

and expression and empowerment.

9:23

And I felt the complete

9:25

opposite. It was like be

9:29

seen, but not heard. Just

9:31

be heft's shadow, be his mirror,

9:34

reflecting his self-importance back at him.

9:36

And so I just try to do the

9:38

best I can at that. Even

9:41

when you had moments of

9:43

going, actually, I don't want to do that. I

9:45

don't agree with either how

9:47

he's conducting things or what he's

9:49

asking of me. What stopped you from speaking

9:51

out or saying, actually, I don't want to

9:53

do that? I think my

9:55

intuition was trying to tell me that

9:58

there is the problem, but I just. shoved

10:01

it down, pushed the voice down. And this

10:03

was also at a time that was pre-Me Too

10:06

and before we knew

10:08

what a lot of the terms are

10:11

that we have now. Like now

10:13

we talk about mental health a lot more,

10:15

we talk about narcissism, we talk about misogyny

10:18

and I don't know, we just didn't really have

10:20

that back then. So when you were going

10:22

through, you know, moments of extreme

10:24

anxiety, being borderline sort of

10:27

panic attack at moments, feeling like you

10:29

needed to get out of there. What

10:31

do you think it was that stopped you from

10:33

making that decision to leave? I'm

10:35

not sure. Pardon me. Felt sorry

10:37

for Heph and felt that I needed to be

10:40

there for him, which is, I don't know, maybe

10:42

a form of Stockholm Syndrome or something. I've

10:46

talked to a couple girls that were actually in

10:48

cult and we had a lot in common. Well,

10:50

I bet. So maybe it was something to do

10:52

with that and Heph being all-powerful and an

10:55

extreme power imbalance. I mean,

10:57

would you call it brainwashing? Yeah, because everyone went

10:59

along with it. He had 70 staff that were

11:02

all yes, yes people to him and the

11:04

media loved him and praised him

11:06

and he would go out

11:08

with his seven girlfriends at one point and the media

11:10

would just eat it up. It's like,

11:12

why, why did they do that? I

11:15

don't, I don't know. We've never asked them.

11:18

And you had a fear of going back

11:20

to, well, you weren't sure what at points.

11:23

You didn't want to leave the

11:25

lifestyle or the excitement of

11:27

it. Yeah. Yeah. I think

11:32

something aside, maybe just said, okay, this is my

11:34

life now. It's not exactly what I thought it

11:36

would be, but this is my life. And

11:39

yeah, this is, I guess, what's in the cards

11:41

for me. That's what I thought. There seemed to

11:43

be like a certain pivotal point where you started

11:45

to see your role as a job. The

11:48

whole thing felt like a job and

11:50

there were actually payouts where he would

11:52

give you sort of an allowance almost.

11:54

Did that help you navigate the trickier

11:57

situations that you didn't necessarily want to find

11:59

yourself in in the mansion? Yeah, yeah.

12:01

So he gave us the allowance when

12:03

I was first there. There were a couple other girls that

12:05

lived there, twins. And it

12:08

was enough money to get by, buy the

12:10

things we needed to but not enough to

12:13

save properly. He

12:16

didn't want us to leave. So it was never enough where we

12:18

could leave. So I remember starting to

12:20

get into trying to make my

12:22

own money while I was there. I'm like,

12:24

okay, some attention is on me, even if

12:26

it's by association, I'm going to use it

12:28

to my advantage. And I started making money

12:31

there, started making money on social media, and

12:33

I learned how to DJ. And so I,

12:35

I recognize at least the financial abuse

12:38

and thought, okay, if I can save

12:41

my own money, then I'll never have to deal with

12:43

this situation again. Yeah. How

12:46

do you feel looking back over,

12:48

it's a long period of time, 10 years

12:50

for you to have gone through,

12:52

you know, there's some times in there where you

12:54

seem to be pretty happy and going to some

12:56

parties and enjoying parts of it. But there's a

12:58

lot, lot of the time where you

13:00

really were very uncomfortable and not enjoying

13:03

being there. Looking back now,

13:05

your self esteem seems in good

13:07

shape, lots of healthier self confidence.

13:10

How do you feel about 21

13:12

year old Crystal going into that situation?

13:15

I feel sorry for her. And that's one of the reasons

13:17

I wrote the book. I wish I had this book when

13:19

I was 21 and I'm having

13:21

21 year old girls actually write me and

13:23

say thank you. So I,

13:26

I really appreciate that. Do

13:28

you have regret about going into

13:30

the mansion? No, I don't have

13:32

regret. I think that my story is a

13:35

good story. And so I don't, I don't

13:37

regret anything. Yeah. So looking

13:39

back, so there's obviously a part in

13:41

the book right at the end, we were going through a

13:44

storage unit with loads of heft

13:46

stuff and it was memorabilia and scrapbooking

13:48

that he had. And you came across

13:50

photos of that night where you're at

13:52

the Halloween party, that pivotal moment where

13:55

you're summoned and you move into

13:57

the mansion essentially. What do

13:59

you think? back at pictures of that night when

14:01

you see yourself about to walk

14:04

into, well you had no idea at

14:06

that point. Yeah I remember going through

14:08

the scrapbooks and seeing those photos and I just

14:12

felt sorry for the girl

14:14

that I was and yeah I

14:16

just felt really bad and I do remember

14:18

that same day looking through other scrapbooks

14:21

and seeing letters from young girls as

14:23

young as 11 years old like writing

14:25

in saying oh I have a

14:27

new Playboy bedspread and I want

14:29

to be a playmate or what does it take

14:31

to get in the mansion and it's at the

14:34

very end of my book I talk about it

14:36

and I can't read it back without crying because it's very

14:39

sad. How'd

14:41

you feel about that about young girls you

14:43

know believing in the Playboy dream?

14:46

Well you have to to be a

14:48

part of it you have to lose

14:50

yourself completely and it's sad

14:53

and he has always

14:56

told the media this quote that's

14:58

like life's too short to be

15:00

living someone else's dream and that's

15:03

what I was doing so it's strange

15:06

sitting next to Molly telling someone that. You

15:08

were living very much his life one of

15:10

the things that I think I underestimated before

15:12

reading the book was how

15:14

mechanical the whole situation was. Every

15:16

day was extremely regimented in

15:19

terms of what you all did, how

15:21

you all did it, how

15:23

the day went, how the sex

15:25

went, how the parties went, everything

15:27

was exactly the same every week.

15:30

How did you find that

15:32

regimented lifestyle? It was

15:34

like a strange cruise ship itinerary

15:37

and I think Heph is such a

15:39

creature of habit and so

15:42

controlling that I think that's why

15:44

he controls every aspect of other

15:47

people's lives and his own life. I

15:49

mean you learned pretty quick that he didn't

15:52

necessarily have any interest in any of

15:54

you in terms of your backstory what

15:57

you liked, what you wanted to do.

16:00

It was very much all about

16:02

him and talking about his legacy.

16:05

Did you actually like him? Maybe

16:10

like I Found

16:13

him interesting But

16:16

thinking back like oh he was just a

16:19

narcissist completely like the

16:21

definition But

16:24

when I tried to make things work or

16:26

be happy there I would ask him so

16:28

many questions about his life, and I thought

16:31

we were connecting But

16:33

we weren't as long as we're talking about

16:35

him then everything was fine But as soon

16:38

as the conversation shifted to anything else he

16:40

just shut off or walked away, so it's

16:44

sad there was also this very

16:47

formatted hierarchy within the mansion where you

16:50

had sort of bedrooms and You'd

16:52

if you were like girlfriend number five you're

16:54

slightly further down the corridor, and you'd get

16:56

moved up And I guess due

16:58

to being in there so long and also being

17:01

under strict curfew I mean you you weren't allowed

17:03

out past what was it 6 p.m. 6 6

17:05

p.m. 6

17:07

most nights Mondays and Wednesdays for a little bit later So

17:10

you are essentially sort of imprisoned in this

17:12

mansion And then there's the brainwashing that goes

17:14

along with it and then I'm imagining you

17:16

start to believe The systems

17:18

that you're living within you've got these Formatted

17:21

sections of the house and you're moving up

17:23

like in a game show to become like

17:25

girlfriend number one I mean you went to

17:27

the next level of becoming his wife. Yeah,

17:30

yeah, yeah, and I think

17:32

it is Because the media

17:34

because all the people that work for him

17:37

because everybody all the celebrities they idolized him

17:39

and like okay This is no matter what

17:41

this voice was telling me. I'm like oh this is This

17:44

is a place where everyone wants to be this

17:46

is this is good. This is I don't know

17:48

I was I guess I was trying to convince

17:50

myself, but I did move into

17:53

bedroom 5 initially and Thought

17:56

to myself okay, whoever's closest to half is

17:58

the most important and and maybe

18:01

he won't

18:03

kick me out or something. So like, what do I

18:05

need to do? Okay, like all

18:07

the same things he likes. So I

18:10

made sure I stuck through all those

18:12

old movies with him and try to

18:14

get into it. And he liked that.

18:16

And I ended up in spot number one,

18:18

which is in the bedroom with half, which is

18:21

no privacy at all. I

18:23

had like a small part of his closet that I could

18:26

call my own. It was

18:28

terrible. Yeah, yeah, it definitely

18:30

wasn't a marital bedroom. It was his

18:32

room. And then you had a tiny

18:34

little vanity section. Yes.

18:37

So even the proposal for

18:40

the marriage seemed unusual.

18:42

Yeah, he just handed me a ring and said,

18:44

I hope it fits. Maybe

18:47

he was afraid to ask me in case I

18:49

said no. I'm not sure. If

18:52

he had, what would you have said if it had been

18:54

a question rather than a statement? I think I would have

18:56

said yes. Otherwise, it's like, okay,

18:58

this is my life. If I say no,

19:01

I move out tomorrow. And

19:03

there were cameras in my face, video,

19:06

and still a bunch

19:09

of people in the room. So

19:11

I'm like, yes. And the picture, I have pictures in the

19:13

book of holding up the

19:15

ring and I'm crying. And I look traumatized. I'm

19:17

like, what's happening? But

19:20

you were like mentally trapped at this point. I

19:22

guess it didn't feel like there was a way out. Yeah, it

19:25

didn't feel like that's the way out. When you

19:27

were really struggling with the turmoil that you're

19:29

feeling within, knowing

19:31

that that's not what you wanted for yourself,

19:33

but you find yourself nodding and

19:36

going along with it, who did you turn to? Who

19:38

can you talk to in moments like that? No

19:41

one there, that's for sure. Maybe

19:44

myself internally. And

19:46

I would do little things like,

19:49

when I was looking through wedding dresses, I picked a

19:51

pink one. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna wear a

19:53

pink dress because when I get married for

19:56

real one day, I'll wear a white

19:58

one. And so having those thoughts and... talking

20:00

myself through it in that way. I mean that's

20:02

how you know that I

20:04

wasn't, I wasn't into it. So

20:07

before you even ended up walking into

20:09

the mansion for the first time, you

20:11

go really into your backstory which I

20:13

thought was really important because I mean

20:16

there are millions of women out there,

20:19

I count myself in this, who have

20:21

been in place of having extreme lack

20:24

of self-worth or just losing your confidence for

20:26

whatever reason and there usually is a reason.

20:28

I don't think we show up on the

20:30

planet with a lack of confidence.

20:32

You have to go through a certain amount of

20:34

experience to lose it and you

20:36

went through several things. Perhaps did you

20:38

say the start of that was your

20:40

dad dying? Yeah after my dad

20:43

passed away I didn't feel like a

20:45

real family anymore, just like the leftover

20:47

scraps of one and then we also

20:49

had no money. After my

20:51

dad passed away we lived in one bedroom

20:54

in another family's home and

20:57

when you don't have any money and other people do

20:59

you just like oh they're better than me. And

21:02

so you start feeling small

21:06

and my mom remarried to

21:08

an awful man but she needed

21:10

to get married to get her green card and so

21:12

she and she kind of liked him I think but

21:14

he had a daughter and he treated his daughter a

21:18

lot better than he treated me and

21:20

so you learn to be

21:23

small and just people please

21:26

and then maybe you'll be accepted or be able

21:28

to belong and

21:30

that's hard and I think that was part of the

21:32

allure of the mansion like wow maybe this is this

21:35

is a place where I could finally belong and sometimes

21:37

just feeling that you belong somewhere is more

21:39

powerful than love. Yeah you

21:41

definitely say in the

21:44

book you know you were desperately seeking that level

21:46

of acceptance. Do you think you ever felt accepted

21:48

in the mansion? No.

21:51

Toward the end because he

21:53

needed me more and he was a

21:55

lot older. I'd like to think he

21:57

learned some type of lesson. You know I have He

22:00

eventually stopped bleaching my hair and

22:02

had my implants removed. He

22:06

respected me then, it seemed, a little bit

22:08

more. So maybe he learned some

22:10

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22:49

going back, after your dad died, you

22:51

then met Greg, who was your boyfriend

22:53

as a teenager, who seemed to be

22:56

like a beautiful ray of sunshine in

22:58

your life at that point. What did

23:00

it feel like meeting him and

23:02

why was that relationship so important?

23:04

Oh my gosh, meeting him was like

23:08

a breath of fresh air. He

23:10

smiled and you could see every one of his

23:12

teeth because his smile was so big and he

23:14

was very happy and it was

23:17

great. He'd always be like, let's go and it'd

23:19

be a fun adventure. I

23:21

just loved being around him. There was nothing

23:23

negative or hurtful. I just cared about

23:25

people and that was all through

23:28

high school. He was my best friend. Then

23:30

you got pregnant and

23:34

had an abortion at this point and that again

23:36

seemed to be, you know,

23:38

obviously it's a very traumatic thing to go through, but

23:40

a real unraveling for you at that point in your

23:42

life where you really questioned a

23:44

hell of a lot of what was going on

23:47

around you and your own questioning your own thoughts

23:49

even at that point. I remember

23:51

thinking I'm a terrible person and his

23:55

parents weren't the most fond of the relationship.

23:57

I'm like, oh, no wonder. I'm

24:01

terrible, I make terrible

24:03

decisions, and I think

24:05

it just kept getting reinforced in me that,

24:08

you know, I have no value and I

24:11

mess everything up, I guess. And

24:13

then the most awful thing happened. Greg

24:16

died in Afghanistan. And

24:19

you say in the book that felt like some sort

24:21

of karmic punishment also. What was

24:23

going through your head at that time

24:25

for you to think that? We

24:28

had broken up and I

24:31

was dating like bad people

24:34

and I just, I

24:37

don't know. I just, I guess I feel, I

24:42

just, I

24:44

lost my dad and then when Greg passed away I'm

24:46

just like, I mean, I don't know,

24:48

life is not good to me and it must

24:51

have been something I've done because

24:53

this isn't fair. I

24:56

think it happens so often that we feel

24:59

like it's punishment, we turn on ourselves and

25:02

we assume we must have done something awful to

25:04

experience any form of bad luck or

25:07

tragedy or whatever's going on. Do you still think

25:09

like that today? Or can you

25:11

look back on life and see a string

25:14

of events can be, you know,

25:16

bad luck or pot luck or whatever it

25:19

might be, fate. Yeah, I think

25:21

I used to be very hard

25:23

on myself. I've gotten better because

25:25

as I wrote the book, I'm like, I can't believe I, I let

25:28

that happen. I can't believe and my

25:30

friends have told me like, give yourself grace. So

25:34

I'm working on that. Yeah, it's a tough one. How

25:37

did you start to

25:39

build your self-esteem back up? Because

25:42

I assume that it wasn't post-Mansion

25:45

life. Maybe whilst

25:47

you were still living in the mansion you

25:49

realised that you needed to build up your

25:51

own confidence and get to a better place.

25:53

When do you think that started to kick

25:55

in? It started kicking in

25:57

when I started making money of my

25:59

own. when I

26:02

went on social media and started making money

26:04

from social media. Instagram came out in 2014

26:06

and it got huge and the DJ gigs

26:09

I started getting into like cryptocurrencies and different

26:11

things like that and I started making money.

26:13

I had a swimwear line, lounge wear line,

26:15

like okay, I'm just gonna do what I

26:18

can and I started making money, enough money

26:20

to buy a house in LA. I opened

26:24

up a corporation where I

26:26

couldn't be traced back to my name. I didn't tell

26:28

Heph, I didn't tell anybody and I bought my first

26:31

house and that felt powerful because

26:33

it's like okay, if this all falls apart,

26:35

I have somewhere to live. I don't have

26:37

to worry about that and yeah,

26:39

like I mentioned earlier, financial abuse is

26:44

horrible and I know a few women that are

26:46

stuck in relationships because they

26:49

can't leave, they have children and they

26:52

control them. The person controls the other person controls

26:54

all the money and it's

26:56

hard and I'm just like save, save, save, do

26:58

what you can. I would see women come through

27:00

the Playboy mansion that had just bought a new

27:02

Range Rover or the Louboutin red bottom shoes, buy

27:05

a condo, buy an

27:08

apartment, buy anything instead. But

27:11

yeah, saving money and having that helped

27:14

and yeah,

27:17

I remember having enough money to just

27:19

be gone and but

27:21

I didn't leave him, I stayed and

27:24

I remember telling my mom, I said I can't leave

27:26

him, he needs me and I

27:29

stayed until the end. Yeah

27:32

and then when Heph died,

27:34

that brought up a whole complex

27:38

grief for you to navigate and from

27:41

reading the book, it seemed you were

27:43

not only grieving this life that you'd led

27:45

for 10 years, which you know is

27:47

obviously undulating in terms

27:49

of your enjoyment of that period but

27:52

also your dad dying, Greg dying, it

27:54

all kind of hit you at that

27:56

point. Yeah, I remember

27:58

when Heph was dying. I kept thinking

28:01

to myself, I don't know if I

28:03

can handle this. I don't know if I can handle another death

28:05

at all and But

28:08

you know, we have no choice it's happening and

28:10

I Remember right when

28:12

half-past I said, I don't even I didn't even know a day

28:15

it was at that point like I don't want to know what

28:17

day it is or what time or anything and I

28:20

couldn't leave the house for maybe like six weeks.

28:22

I slept in another bedroom. I couldn't be in the

28:25

main bedroom and Yeah, just

28:28

reflecting. I don't know. It was probably felt guilty.

28:30

I don't know why and I

28:32

just I couldn't leave the house for a long time. Mmm Yeah,

28:36

well, I guess there

28:39

perhaps was a period

28:41

of suspension of you not looking at

28:44

the grief of Greg dying

28:46

and then all of a sudden you've got

28:48

to face all of it in one go.

28:50

It's overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah death is hard It's

28:52

very hard when you

28:54

were going through feelings

28:57

of low self-esteem

28:59

a lack of confidence As

29:02

I said many of us have been there

29:04

and that can often be teamed with self

29:07

loathing or just just plain not liking yourself

29:09

Very much. Would you say that's true

29:11

of how you felt? Yeah, that's definitely how

29:13

how I felt and I wasn't sure how

29:15

to turn that Around how did you well?

29:18

I remember trying to date shortly after

29:20

the mansion and I spoke

29:22

to a matchmaker and they said oh Well,

29:25

we're gonna fill out your profile. Like what do

29:28

you like so we can put it in

29:30

the profile and I froze Like

29:33

what do I like? I don't

29:35

even know it sounds

29:37

weird, but I didn't even know what I

29:39

like I spent all my life liking what somebody else liked

29:42

or pretty much all my

29:44

life and So

29:46

I had to just take a pause

29:49

and from there like what do I like? Yeah,

29:52

I was had been traveling. I'm like,

29:54

I love travel. Yeah, I've been in

29:56

nature. I love nature. I love my

29:58

dog so As

30:00

I discovered what I liked I started finding

30:02

myself and just

30:05

that just the small steps like really

30:08

really lead to the bigger things and And

30:11

and I thought oh, yeah, I love Disneyland. It's

30:14

fun to go there. I love Mickey Mouse I'm

30:16

like, okay, I'm gonna get myself a sweatshirt that

30:18

has Mickey Mouse on it I'm so simple and

30:20

silly But you're like, okay Like

30:22

what do I like and how do I show

30:25

it to the world and I started becoming myself

30:27

and I started becoming more confident and

30:29

having saved money helped me and Yeah,

30:32

it's been a journey. It's been a seven-year journey

30:34

now. Would you say? Initially,

30:37

it felt difficult to believe that you deserved

30:40

to do what you wanted to do and

30:42

have choice and autonomy Over

30:44

your own likes and how you wanted life

30:46

to go. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely There

30:48

was there's always been a part of me that feels

30:50

like oh, I can't enjoy it too much or else

30:53

something bad's gonna happen I

30:55

don't know where that comes from I know other people

30:57

have it but I've just tried to enjoy

31:00

things more practice gratitude

31:03

Instead of you know, oh

31:06

I had a terrible day Like was it a bad

31:08

day or just a bad few minutes? Yeah, so just

31:10

think about the good things and and be grateful and

31:12

I think that's helped Yeah, and I guess get out

31:14

of that mindset and I've certainly been there as well

31:16

where you believe that if anything Remotely

31:19

awful happens that it's completely awful. You must have

31:21

done something along the way to trigger that bad

31:23

event happening It's very hard to unpick that one.

31:25

Do you think you've managed it? Yeah. Yeah

31:29

I think I got into the mindset of the

31:31

the universe has my back. Yeah,

31:34

so I just trust Trust

31:36

that and hopefully all will

31:38

be good often in these situations when

31:40

you Read a

31:42

story like your own or there's women

31:44

in the press who have either

31:47

dated an older man or whatever

31:50

Situation set up it is the

31:52

female is much more harshly judged

31:54

than the male involved Some

31:57

would use the word victim for the

31:59

person your situation is judged much

32:01

more harshly than the person who's

32:04

got the power, the control, the

32:06

finances, etc. How have you found

32:08

that? I

32:10

think that's very very true

32:12

and I don't

32:15

know why that is. It's like are people

32:17

afraid of them? I don't

32:19

know. You know people idolized Heft and

32:22

treated him just incredibly

32:24

well and they

32:26

shouldn't have. But I think

32:29

people are learning now and

32:31

hopefully things are changing but

32:33

he was definitely idolized for

32:35

and propped up for all the wrong reasons.

32:38

Because he had money and power. Yeah.

32:41

And how have you dealt with the judgment and

32:44

any critique that you've had thrown your way? You

32:46

know obviously social media is a minefield

32:48

and horrendous for most people in terms

32:50

of if there's backlash or if there's

32:52

negativity. It could be a lovely place

32:54

of connection as well but it can

32:57

obviously dish up just

32:59

unsolicited thoughts, opinions. How

33:02

do you swim through that? When

33:05

I put the book out I had no

33:07

idea how it would be received. I hoped

33:09

it would be received well and because not

33:12

only did I want to talk about the mansion and

33:14

tell the truth I wanted to dive into the psychology

33:16

behind everything and I was hoping

33:19

it would be received well and it was.

33:21

It was received very well and I got

33:23

so many positive messages and

33:26

I do remember one of

33:28

my friends sending me some random things from like

33:30

a reddit thing or a Girls

33:32

Next Door group

33:35

or something. It was a few

33:37

negative things and I just

33:39

told her I'm like I'm gonna follow the light.

33:41

I'm gonna follow these 99.9% people that are getting

33:44

something out of this book

33:47

and who are saying things that are positive.

33:49

I think if you dwell on

33:51

negative it just breeds more

33:54

negative. I used to do that when I was at

33:56

the mansion and on the Girls Next Door show

33:58

I read the bad comments and Now

34:00

I'll just delete them or turn

34:02

the comments off. Just

34:04

follow the light because if you spend your life

34:07

dwelling on the positive or

34:10

negative, you could go either way. So why not just

34:12

go. It's

34:14

all irrelevant at the end of the day. Focusing on you.

34:16

Yeah, I just gotta go with what feels right to you.

34:19

I mean, the book is called

34:21

Only Say Good Things for Good Reason.

34:23

You were very much explicitly told by

34:26

Hugh Hefner not to say anything negative

34:28

about him or your experience of

34:30

being part of the Playboy brand and living

34:32

in the mansion. When did

34:34

you start feeling like you might

34:36

contradict that? I think once

34:39

I left and started going to

34:41

therapy and the

34:43

people that I was dating

34:46

were similar. They

34:48

were controlling their manipulative,

34:52

except now they were struggling actors

34:54

and musicians so

34:56

I'm being treated this way and I'm

34:58

paying the bills. So I cannot

35:01

keep being in this trap. And

35:03

so I'm like, oh, that something there has really affected

35:05

me and I need to talk about it. And

35:08

as we go through people

35:11

talking about mental health more and I

35:13

learned a lot more about narcissism and

35:16

like, wow, I really

35:18

need to talk about this and

35:20

Hef controlled the narrative for so long,

35:22

like 70 years and he meticulously like

35:24

3000 scrapbooks together

35:26

of his life that he thought people would wanna

35:29

look at for generations and generations. And it's

35:32

like, okay, I need to tell the other side of

35:34

it because it wasn't what Hef said at

35:36

all. And just be honest

35:38

to the world and people that were following

35:41

us. I think it's important. I think the

35:43

truth is important. And

35:46

one of the first things the publisher said back to me

35:48

was I think this is

35:50

very historical and that was one of the

35:52

highest compliments. Yeah, without a doubt. You

35:55

say in the book that growing

35:57

up, you learned maybe from various

35:59

sources that. to survive, you need

36:01

to be appealing to men. Where

36:04

was that messaging coming from? Well, when

36:06

I was growing up, the celebrities at

36:08

the time were Pam Anderson, Jenny

36:11

McCarthy, Carmen Electra. So

36:13

you're like, okay, they all have implants

36:15

and they all have sex appeal and

36:18

they're dressing sexy. And like,

36:20

okay, that's what you gotta do to be

36:22

powerful. That's what I assume is

36:24

be appealing to the

36:27

opposite sex. So yeah,

36:29

I started on that journey. I

36:31

thought that's what would make me happy

36:33

or powerful. And how'd you feel

36:35

about that today? Like obviously very beautiful and

36:38

you like to have your hair

36:40

a certain way and makeup. I'm the same, I

36:42

love getting dressed up. I love wearing certain

36:45

clothes and experimenting with different styles.

36:47

There's still this murky

36:50

debate where women can only be one thing.

36:52

So you can't appear to be sexy and

36:54

have a brain. You can't appear to be

36:56

sexy and have an opinion about something. I

36:59

think that still really stands. And there's many

37:01

people that totally would

37:03

disregard everything I've just said, I'm

37:05

one of them. But I think that there

37:08

is still this general consensus that how can

37:10

a sexy woman have an opinion or how

37:12

can a beautiful woman who wants to show

37:15

off her body or dress in

37:17

a certain way, have an opinion on

37:19

anything. How do you navigate that today?

37:22

I think it's hard and you're right. Like it

37:24

could be both. I

37:26

was coming to the UK and

37:28

I called Benny. I'm like, Benny, I need hair

37:30

and makeup and at first I'm gonna be on

37:32

camera. But

37:34

as soon as I leave, I'm gonna get home

37:36

and probably not wear makeup for two months. You

37:39

can be both. And I

37:42

do think more people are realizing that, that you

37:44

can be both. You

37:47

can be blonde and intelligent.

37:50

Correct. How

37:53

do you feel about where your

37:55

self worth derives from? Because obviously

37:57

in the mansion, your

37:59

self worth. Came it seems 100%

38:02

from what you look like you were being told that

38:04

that was the most important thing If you

38:07

were a certain weight you

38:09

had to have the same color hair the same color nails

38:11

everything was again very mechanical

38:13

and regimented and Observed

38:17

it seems highly observed and

38:19

then you start to believe that because it's

38:21

all you're hearing all day And you're pitted

38:24

against other women. How do you feel about

38:26

I mean, or where is yourself worth today?

38:28

Where do you get it from? Is it

38:30

still from how you look or there are

38:33

the parts of your life that you feel?

38:36

Hold that that confidence and that

38:38

self-worth. Hmm I remember when I

38:40

was in therapy for five years the therapist told me

38:42

the next thing you do However, you make money make

38:44

sure it has nothing to do with what you look

38:46

like So I don't there's no

38:48

ad on my social media. I don't I don't post

38:50

anything like that and I Flip

38:53

houses like I remodel and build

38:55

homes and I like to

38:57

add natural elements to them and and it's fun and it

39:00

has nothing to do with what I look like and I

39:03

think that's important because we age and It's

39:07

been hard for me but

39:11

Yeah, it gets easier as you love yourself

39:13

a little bit more and you you Dive

39:16

into what you love that has nothing to

39:18

do with physical. I think that's important. Hmm

39:21

So now you're a little further down the

39:23

line How do

39:26

you see your life post-manchion? how do

39:28

you move on from that because obviously

39:31

you wouldn't have written a book about it if you

39:33

didn't want to honor that period of your life and

39:35

Take heed of the lessons you learned there and the

39:37

experiences you had But I'm

39:39

imagining you don't want to dwell on that period

39:41

of your life equally. So how do you move

39:43

on from all of that? Well,

39:46

I wrote the book to

39:49

help myself heal and to tell all

39:52

the women that looked up to the place

39:54

But it wasn't it wasn't what they thought

39:56

it was and you had to

39:58

just just just help the world hopefully.

40:00

And I think I did that. And

40:02

it was a healing journey. And from here,

40:05

like, I'm just gonna focus

40:08

more on myself. And

40:10

I have a farm in Hawaii. So once this,

40:12

oh, nice, I'm just gonna go over there and

40:16

just chill. And, you know, I never wanted to

40:18

be famous. I never wanted to be an actor

40:20

or anything like that. So

40:22

maybe if I can talk about, you know,

40:25

self love and worth and self

40:27

acceptance on my social media and help people, that's

40:29

what I would want to do. But

40:32

other than that, I just I like the quiet

40:34

life. Yeah, on the farm in

40:36

Hawaii heaven. Why not? How

40:38

did the experience of

40:40

living in the mansion, of

40:43

having a relationship where there were

40:45

huge conditions involved, well, rules, let's

40:47

be blunt about it,

40:51

around everything to do with how

40:53

you operated, where you were, how

40:55

much of your attention went on

40:57

to your partner slash husband, sex,

40:59

all of it was conditional, how

41:02

is that affected? How

41:04

you think about relationships now and

41:06

intimacy? I

41:09

think that, I don't

41:11

know, now I have to just feel

41:13

very safe with somebody. And I was

41:15

in a few relationships that were not

41:17

very good. And now I'm

41:19

in a relationship that's very happy and

41:21

healthy. And I know that this

41:23

person respects me and respects women.

41:26

So I think that's very, very important.

41:28

Yeah, safety seemed to come into it

41:30

a lot. You know, you say even when

41:33

you entered the mansion, realizing

41:35

that you were a permanent resident at

41:37

the mansion, when that moment happened that

41:39

you felt safe for the first time

41:42

in ages. So I'm imagining

41:44

that's something that you still seek, but in

41:46

just very different ways. Yeah, yeah. Now, now

41:48

I actually feel safe. There

41:50

it was, was an

41:52

illusion just, yeah, just like

41:54

the mansion itself. Yeah, so

41:56

strange. How

41:58

was it reflecting a everything in the

42:00

book. I mean you go into great detail

42:03

in all areas. Was it liberating? Was it

42:05

a painful experience to go about there? I

42:08

think it was liberating. It was hard

42:10

to talk about sex and death but I

42:13

think it had to be in there because it's a

42:15

big part of the story and

42:18

yeah it's liberating and I'm very

42:21

happy and you know I was

42:23

quiet for so long and so I appreciate getting

42:25

the story out there. Yeah do you

42:27

feel any guilt around speaking

42:29

the truth now? No. I do

42:32

see old photos of half an eye and I

42:34

think oh that was when I didn't know any

42:36

better but I don't I

42:38

don't have guilt anymore. None.

42:42

Gone. No. No.

42:44

It's a good thing. It's freeing. Yeah. You

42:47

don't have to lug that around. Yeah and

42:49

it's nice to talk about it and be

42:51

able to be honest finally. Yeah I mean

42:54

I guess times have

42:56

changed so hugely in terms of

42:58

even 10 years

43:00

ago but certainly

43:03

looking back 20 years ago how Playboy

43:06

had a place in culture such a

43:08

prominent place in culture and how women

43:10

were seen has changed

43:13

so hugely it does feel like

43:15

what you've documented is

43:17

that shift. You lived through that

43:20

entire shift of

43:22

the demise of it and it you

43:24

know I mean it still exists but you've

43:26

explicitly said it's not what we think it

43:29

is. Yeah it's definitely not. It

43:31

was Hugh Hefner's Playboy and Beauty

43:33

is Subjective and he would only put in

43:36

certain people in the magazine and it

43:38

was Hef's World and I do

43:41

think and still wonder like did

43:43

he hurt things by creating that magazine or

43:45

did he help? He supposedly

43:49

thought he helped with freedom

43:51

and expression but maybe

43:54

he hurt the world a little bit too. Hmm

43:57

well I really enjoyed reading it.

43:59

You know, at times I was like a

44:01

jaw on the floor reading it, but it

44:03

was, I couldn't put it down. I

44:06

could not put this book down. So congratulations

44:09

on having your book out

44:11

there in the world and thank you for talking to me

44:13

today. Thank you for having me, I appreciate it. Crystal,

44:17

thank you so much for your time

44:19

and energy. I know it's not gonna

44:21

be easy reliving all of those details,

44:23

but I do think sharing stories like

44:25

this is vital in changing

44:28

hearts and minds. So thank you.

44:31

Crystal's book, Only Say Good Things,

44:33

Surviving Playboy and Finding Myself is

44:35

out now. What else

44:37

are you reading, by the way? If you're

44:39

not sure what to get into next, come

44:41

and join the Happy Place Book Club on

44:43

Instagram. We are unsurprisingly

44:45

called at Happy Place Book

44:48

Club. The book club is

44:50

just a place for all fellow bookworms

44:52

like myself to chat about what you're

44:54

reading, what you're getting from the book,

44:57

passing on tips as to what books

44:59

we're enjoying. Also, there is a fair

45:01

bit of displaying beautiful

45:04

books in a color coded

45:06

way, heaven. You'll also

45:08

find Happy Place at Happy Place officials. So

45:10

join us there too. Hopefully

45:13

we'll chat there during the week, but for

45:15

now it's a huge thank you again to

45:17

Crystal, to the producer Anushka Tate at Happy

45:19

Place Studios and to you, I love ya.

45:27

Thank you. Marketers

45:50

and advertisers, brands big and small.

45:53

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46:05

a moment of silence. It's

46:07

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