0:00

Quality sleep is essential for boosting

0:02

energy, recovery, and well-being. So take

0:04

your sleep to the next level

0:07

with Sleep Number. With a Sleep

0:09

Number Smartbed, you can individualize your

0:11

comfort level and enjoy a better

0:14

sleep night after night. J.D. Power

0:16

ranks Sleep Number number one in

0:18

customer satisfaction, with mattresses purchased in-store.

0:21

And now, during Sleep Number's President's

0:23

Day sale, save 50% on the

0:25

Sleep Number Limited Edition Smartbed, plus

0:28

special financing for a limited time.

0:30

For J.D. Power 2023

0:32

award information, visit jdpower.com/awards,

0:34

only at Sleep Number

0:37

stores or sleepnumber.com. See

0:39

store for details. Hi,

0:42

everybody. It is with great excitement

0:44

that I am telling you about

0:46

one of our new group chaplaincy

0:48

options called Showing Up for Queer

0:50

Kids. If you have a queer

0:52

kid in your life who you

0:54

want to think through how to

0:56

be the most loving and supportive

0:58

adult that you can be, then

1:00

you can be a part of

1:02

this amazing group chaplaincy experience with

1:04

Taylor Bueller. You can find out

1:06

more about this program, which is going to be on Fridays

1:08

from 1 to 2 30 Eastern

1:11

starting March 8th by

1:13

going to notsorryworks.com. Chapter

1:22

25 The Beetle at Bay Harry's

1:26

question was answered the very next

1:28

morning. When Hermione's daily profit

1:30

arrived, she smoothed it out, gazed for

1:32

a moment at the front page, and

1:35

then gave a yelp that caused everyone

1:37

in the vicinity to stare at her.

1:40

What, said Harry and Ron together.

1:43

I'm Vanessa Zoltan. I'm Hope

1:45

Rehack. And this is Harry Potter

1:48

and the Sacred Text. Thanks for watching. Our

1:52

first announcement is Welcome Hope Rehack. First

1:54

time on Harry Potter and the Sacred

1:56

Text. Hi, thank you. So

1:58

you hope are on today

2:01

because you are a huge

2:03

Harry Potter nerd. You have a lot of

2:05

brilliant thoughts about this, but also you have

2:07

a class coming up with not sorry. I

2:10

was wondering if you could just tell people

2:12

a little bit about the class that you'll

2:14

be teaching. Yes, I kind of first conceived

2:16

of it as a sort of history of

2:18

queer television because I had some undergrad students

2:21

who said something once like, you

2:23

know, gay people weren't really on TV until Will and

2:25

Grace and it really hurt my feelings. And

2:28

so I understand

2:31

why people don't like to necessarily like go

2:33

back and watch old TV. It can feel

2:35

like a different pace than it can feel

2:37

not as funny and the comedy doesn't always

2:39

age well. But I think looking just specifically

2:41

at sort of queer characters and queer storytelling

2:43

from kind of the 1960s to the present

2:45

day, you kind of understand where we

2:47

came from and where we're going. And so we're

2:49

going to talk about the 60s through the 2020s. It's

2:52

called the history of queer representation in TV. I

2:54

think it's called a quick and dirty history

2:57

of queer representation in TV because

3:00

that is absolutely what I hope it is. Awesome.

3:03

I'm so glad that you are offering that

3:05

to people. And I didn't

3:07

realize that people thought that Will and Grace

3:09

was the first queer representation on TV. So

3:12

I'm glad you're dispelling

3:14

people of this notion. Everybody, you can

3:16

find out more about that by going

3:19

to not sorry works.com and hope we

3:21

just have to tell everybody about our

3:23

bonus conversation for today. You and I

3:25

will be talking about something that happens

3:28

in this chapter, a holiday

3:30

that has just recently passed from when this comes

3:32

out and that is Valentine's Day. I am

3:35

wondering if you have any Valentine's Day feelings.

3:37

I will share my Valentine's Day feelings. We

3:39

will share whether or not

3:41

we think Cho and Harry had

3:43

a representative on Valentine's Day for

3:46

what this holiday is. Can't wait.

3:48

And you can listen to that by signing

3:51

up at patreon.com/Harry Potter sacred text. I'm

3:53

so excited. No, I taught a Harry Potter lesson college. I

3:55

feel like I've been training for this moment for

3:57

my whole life. Well, why don't you start us

3:59

off with a of an opening story, the theme

4:01

that we read chapter 25 through is

4:04

attention. What story do you have for us?

4:06

Oh, yeah, I kind of like couldn't

4:09

get enough attention as a child. And

4:11

I was one of those kids who was

4:13

always performing and singing and demanding everybody watch

4:16

me do extremely mundane things. And

4:18

I love this about me because people wonder

4:20

if that came from nature or nurture and

4:22

it's so obviously nature, not nurture.

4:24

My parents paid so much attention

4:27

to me and my siblings. I think a

4:29

lot of people who are attention seekers as

4:31

adults, people assume that maybe in their developmental

4:33

years, their family didn't give them the

4:35

attention that they wanted. But I think some people

4:37

like me have just a bottomless need that can

4:39

never sort of be set aside. And

4:42

I think that sounds like a conclusion

4:44

that you come to after like therapy

4:47

and reflection. But actually, I came to

4:49

this conclusion recently from primary documents in

4:51

my dad's recent retirement, he ended up

4:53

digitizing just dozens of home movies

4:55

that were on VHS tapes and putting

4:57

them in a Google Drive. And so

4:59

I've been watching them and there's like

5:01

hours long documentaries of my

5:04

early childhood. And they

5:06

were made with an intention. My grandparents lived

5:08

a few states away. And so my parents

5:10

would mail these VHS tapes to them. And

5:12

I'm not sure if what we have are rescues

5:14

from after those grandparents passed away or

5:16

if they're duplicates. But I just love

5:18

that they're these like very intentional, like almost

5:21

like vlog, you know, that my parents are

5:23

sort of narrating their parenting. And

5:25

my sister and I like kind of come in

5:27

and perform for our grandparents. But

5:29

in a very, I would say undirected way. I

5:31

don't think my parents were telling us what to

5:33

do. We and those notes were crabby, sometimes were

5:35

awful. And yeah, the bottomless

5:38

need that there was kind

5:40

of shocking to me. And then I

5:42

was kind of touched because I remember feeling

5:44

like I could never get enough attention

5:46

from them. But watching them

5:48

pay so much attention to

5:50

me kind of like reframed that for me. And

5:52

also my father in his first year

5:54

of retirement choosing to spend just hours and

5:56

hours digitizing this when nobody asked

5:59

him to And if

6:01

he hadn't, they probably would have ratted because kind

6:03

of public service announcement, if you have old VHS

6:06

tapes, they actually do degrade and decay and then

6:08

they're unsalvageable after about 25 or 30 years. So

6:11

it kind of felt like he was preserving them at

6:13

the last possible moment with his first

6:16

huge chunk of free time. And it was

6:18

so loving. And again, I think my sister and I

6:20

were kind of like, perplexed, like who needs these? But

6:23

the sort of attention paid felt

6:25

like love to me and that act of service

6:27

really feels like love to me. So that's

6:30

my story about attention today. That

6:32

is one of the definitions that

6:34

the French philosopher and theologian Simon

6:37

Beig gives for love, is that

6:39

love is attention. And

6:41

she equates prayer, love, and

6:43

attention. Now all prayer is,

6:45

is like paying close attention to something and

6:48

that all love is,

6:50

is paying attention to something. And

6:53

so I don't know. It's like, don't

6:55

we all have a bottomless need for love? Right?

6:58

There was just something honest about the

7:00

way you were demanding

7:02

it, but that just feels true for

7:04

everyone. In Lady Bird 2,

7:06

I think maybe the Thurgood Ronan character

7:08

says that too. Somebody says love

7:10

is paying attention and I was so grateful.

7:14

That none is quoting Simon Beig.

7:16

That's right. Thank you. Good memory. Okay.

7:20

Yeah, that's what it is. I love that. Simon

7:22

Beig was Jewish, but always sort of with Catholicism.

7:25

This was in conversation with Catholicism that Simon

7:27

Beig was saying that. But I

7:29

love that. I

7:32

just think it's something beautiful about

7:34

children that they're willing

7:36

to let their need for love

7:38

be so clear. My friend Amanda

7:41

has a very independent three-year-old who will

7:43

be running around and socializing and going

7:45

around and talking to everyone. And then

7:48

she runs back to her mom and

7:50

lays on her mom for like 10

7:52

seconds and then goes back out. And

7:55

Amanda calls it mom recharge station. Well, it's

7:57

like she needs to plug her. herself in

8:00

to this recharge station and go back out.

8:02

And I feel like we

8:04

all need that. And kids are

8:07

just not trying to perform a version of

8:09

which that's not true. That's so

8:11

beautiful. Yeah, I've seen toddlers do that. A friend of

8:13

mine has a 17 month old who does

8:15

the same thing. So cute. It's

8:17

so sweet. Well, I

8:19

do think that there are a lot

8:22

of different kinds of attention for us

8:24

to talk about in this chapter. But

8:26

first we will remind the people what

8:28

happens in this chapter. We

8:31

do 30 second recaps. I

8:33

will go first. Okay. Do

8:36

you mind counting me in?

8:38

For sure. Are you ready?

8:41

I am ready. Three, two,

8:43

one, go. So

8:46

all of these death eaters have escaped

8:48

Azkaban and Fudge is like, it's serious

8:50

black fault because he's related to Bellatrix.

8:53

And then nobody is figuring out that

8:55

actually the Dementors have like

8:57

clearly gone over to Voldemort side. Cho and Harry go

8:59

out for Valentine's day and it is very awkward and

9:01

Harry's like, oh, by the way, I have to meet

9:04

up with Hermione. And Cho is like, are you flipping

9:06

serious? And also I wanna talk to you about Cedric.

9:08

And Harry's like, I don't wanna talk about Cedric. And

9:10

then he goes and he meets up with Hermione and

9:12

they have a meeting with Rita Skeeter to get his

9:14

story out. Bravo.

9:17

Thank you. Thank you. Oh

9:19

my God, nobody ever says bravo. I think that

9:21

was really impressive. I think it's really a lot

9:24

of story to get through. Thank you, thank you.

9:27

Do you wanna count me in? It

9:30

would be an honor and a pleasure. Thank you.

9:32

On your heart. Get set,

9:34

go. So the

9:36

trio are in the dining hall and they're

9:38

reading the Daily Prophet and Harry notices that

9:40

not a lot of the students are reading

9:42

the Daily Prophet but a lot of the

9:44

teachers at the head table are and the

9:46

stories of the day are about deaf eaters

9:48

breaking out of Azkaban and a guy who

9:50

was killed at St. Mungos by a scary

9:53

devil snare plant that they should have recognized.

9:55

They experienced some guilt about that. Oh my

9:57

gosh, then they go to a hog meat

9:59

and yes. Oh my gosh, they're running out of time!

10:01

And then they do what you said. I

10:05

am so appreciative when people struggle doing their

10:07

first one, because I feel like you

10:10

listen to this every week, you start thinking

10:13

that it's just like Vanessa and Matt, they don't

10:15

know how to talk. It's stressful!

10:18

It's stressful, and also, I feel like these

10:20

books are famously extremely plot heavy. There's a

10:22

lot of plot in every chapter. So

10:24

many things happen in this chapter. Hope,

10:27

I do think that there's a place

10:29

in the chapter for us to talk

10:32

about exactly what your story was pointing

10:34

to, right? Which is Harry

10:37

and Cho, and

10:39

like, people wanting a

10:41

certain kind of attention. Everybody has

10:43

good intentions, and yet

10:45

this goes so badly, right? Like,

10:48

Harry likes Cho, and

10:51

cares about her, and like, thinks

10:53

she's cool, and Cho,

10:56

same for Harry, and

10:59

yet, like, they just keep talking

11:01

past each other, and like,

11:04

can't pay each other the right kind

11:06

of attention. They're at Madame

11:08

Petit Foots, which I feel like just

11:10

walking in to a place called Madame

11:12

Petit Foots. I would

11:15

be nervous. There's something

11:17

brilliantly cheesy sounding about this

11:20

place. And then, right,

11:22

there are all of these decorations

11:24

for Valentine's Day. It's a coffee

11:26

shop that we have never been

11:28

to in Hogsmeade before, and they

11:31

arrive, and part of

11:33

the problem is that this

11:35

situation is not ideal for the two

11:37

of them to have a frank conversation, given where

11:40

they are in their relationship. There

11:42

are all these other Hogwarts couples

11:44

there who seem to have

11:46

had a more

11:48

established connection than

11:51

Harry and Cho have, and so

11:53

there's like all of this comparison going on.

11:55

There's a lot of things distracting

11:57

them from the ability to be there.

12:00

to pay each

12:02

other a productive kind of attention.

12:05

For sure, but I also like that, I

12:07

think that rereading it this time and not

12:09

as a kid, I feel like

12:12

they are paying each other attention and there's

12:14

even a moment where Harry gets

12:16

frustrated after they sort of have this fight

12:18

at the cafe because he says like, why

12:20

would she want to talk about Cedric when

12:22

it makes her cry? So it's

12:24

sort of like he is paying attention. He

12:26

just isn't particularly, let's say, in the moment

12:29

able to connect the dots. It's such a

12:32

evocative or sort of platonic

12:34

ideal of why a lot of relationships don't

12:36

work out is the sort of inability to

12:38

read between the lines of what people are

12:40

saying because I actually think on

12:42

the literal level, they're really listening to each other,

12:44

they really are. And Harry's just kind of like,

12:46

I'm not sure why you want to

12:48

talk about this thing that makes you sad. And that's

12:50

such a reason a lot of people actually do break

12:52

up. Because

12:55

it's like, yeah, I want you to pay

12:57

attention to what I'm literally saying, but I also need you

12:59

to hear what I'm saying behind the words that I'm

13:01

saying, which maybe in this moment, Harry's not able to

13:03

do. But like you said, everyone's so well-intentioned

13:05

in this scene. And even Cho, there's a

13:08

moment that really reminds me of being a

13:10

teenage girl when Cho is like, I could

13:12

have dated Roger Davies. Like, you

13:14

know, he's over there kissing someone else and I'm

13:16

kind of hot. And of course, Harry knows that. Like

13:19

Harry had a thing for her for a long time.

13:21

He's not dating her out of pity, but

13:23

she's kind of reminding him of her sort

13:25

of social capital Hogwarts and he

13:27

kind of gets annoyed by that. But that's a

13:29

fair point to bring up. Like I'm

13:32

choosing to be here with you. Especially because

13:34

it's like in your choosing to go be

13:36

with Hermione, right? He's 15, I'm not mad

13:38

at him for not saying this in a

13:40

different way. You know, it's probably a part

13:42

of our work. It's part of the DA.

13:44

You know, like there's a way to sell

13:46

Cho on this. So like be like, oh,

13:48

you should come with me to Hermione. I

13:50

bet it's gonna be a really important conversation.

13:52

She doesn't ask things like this unless they're,

13:55

and like I want you to be part of

13:58

it, but instead, yeah, he's not. paying

14:00

attention to what she

14:02

might need to hear. He knows all

14:04

the information. He knows it's entirely platonic between

14:06

he and Hermione. And so he's like, not

14:09

like, Oh, what would it feel like if

14:11

I was on a date with somebody and

14:13

they had plans with another person in the

14:15

middle of my day, right? Like, yeah, and

14:18

sort of armchair psycho analyzed these fictional children.

14:20

I do think Harry's a person at this

14:22

point in his development, that is like a

14:24

really good friend. I think he's he's really

14:26

like, that's one of his strengths is he's

14:29

a good friend. Is he a

14:31

good boyfriend? No. In fact, I'm

14:33

not sure we ever really see him evolve

14:35

into a good boyfriend in the span of

14:37

the seven books. But that's like

14:39

not his primary, let's say, focus.

14:42

I think he's really, really good at showing

14:44

people the love and attention they need platonically.

14:47

And I think this is maybe like a

14:49

language she doesn't yet speak. Yeah,

14:51

I feel pretty bad for both of them in

14:53

this situation. Because I do think

14:55

they're doing their best and I do think

14:57

their best is not good enough for each

14:59

other. Right. Cho is so alone

15:02

in this, right? Like, we know

15:04

she's basically forcing Marietta to come

15:06

to DA practice with her. I

15:09

just I would imagine that a lot of

15:11

people just don't know how to talk to

15:13

her about what happened with Cedric. At the

15:15

beginning of the chapter, Pansy Parkinson like makes

15:18

a really nasty comment about it. Like, why

15:20

are you going out with Harry? At least

15:22

Cedric was good looking, right? I just feel

15:24

like she is so isolated in her grief.

15:27

And, yeah, of course, she needs some

15:29

extra TLC. And it makes sense that she's going

15:31

to Harry this guy who, you know, we know

15:33

she would have gone to the UO ball with

15:35

him if he had asked first. And

15:37

also, like he was there when her boyfriend

15:40

died, right? Like it, it

15:42

makes sense she's going to him. And sometimes I feel like

15:44

you can write like we can go to certain people needing

15:47

a special kind of attention. And just because of they're

15:49

hungry or they've had a bad day or

15:52

this triggers something really precise

15:54

in them, they can't. When

15:56

my dad was really sick, I reached out

15:58

to see a therapist. because I was really

16:00

struggling with it. And it turned out that my

16:03

dad was sick in a very similar way to

16:05

the way her father was sick. And

16:07

so she kept talking to me about

16:09

her dad. She eventually was like,

16:11

I don't think I'm the right therapist for you

16:13

in this moment. I can't listen to

16:15

you talk about your dad in this way without needing

16:18

to talk about my dad. And I was like, cool.

16:20

And that took a lot of training for her to

16:22

be able to say that. So I think fair that

16:24

Harry and child can't figure out how to say that

16:26

to each other. As young teenagers.

16:28

But yeah, I was thinking about this. If they

16:30

were even a little older, I have friends that

16:32

in their 20s, a

16:34

friend of mine, his girlfriend passed away

16:37

unexpectedly in their early 20s. And

16:39

he years later ended up marrying her

16:41

best friend. And I think maybe some

16:43

people don't understand that or find

16:45

it difficult to imagine how that

16:47

felt for those two people. But it's

16:49

been really incredible to watch them heal

16:52

with each other and seeing that mature into

16:55

an adult romantic relationship if they're now married.

16:57

And I do think that it kind of

16:59

harkens back to what I think is an

17:01

Ashkenazi Jewish practice. But of sometimes

17:03

when you're a widower, you're

17:06

supposed to marry the sibling of the person

17:08

who passed away. And I think that's

17:10

another thing that maybe in a modern setting

17:13

or a modern psyche, it's hard to wrap

17:15

your head around. But watching my friend go

17:17

through that, I sort of understood that practice

17:19

a little bit better. Yeah,

17:21

I love that as an explanation of Cho's

17:24

instinct. And that

17:27

Harry is like, nope, can't. What?

17:30

Romance different parts than grief.

17:32

Yeah, can't do

17:35

both of these things at the same

17:37

time. Whereas that is working for Cho.

17:39

And yeah, both are just such

17:41

reasonable responses. But

17:44

Cho is paying attention to

17:46

Harry. She points out

17:49

to Harry, she's like, don't you think it's weird

17:51

that there aren't any dementors wandering

17:53

around in Hogsmeade, given how many

17:55

dementors there were when Sirius Black

17:57

was on the loose? That

18:00

is what allows Harry to be like,

18:02

oh my God, yes, the Dementors didn't

18:04

just let the Death Eaters out. They

18:06

are actively on Voldemort's side because otherwise

18:08

they, in theory, would be working for

18:10

the Ministry and looking for these escaped

18:13

convicts. And I do think

18:15

that part of Jo's attention to Dementors

18:17

actually is in her care for Harry.

18:19

She was the one who protected him

18:21

in book three when Draco

18:23

was pretending to be a Dementor, but she

18:25

thought there were Dementors and that Harry was

18:27

gonna fall off of his broom. And she

18:30

reaches out across team and is like,

18:32

Harry, be careful, right? And

18:34

so I do think that

18:36

that occurring to her shows

18:39

that she was worried about Dementors being

18:41

in Hogsmeade because she was worried they were gonna

18:43

have a negative impact on Harry. It's

18:46

actually showing the depth of her attention

18:48

to him. And I think

18:50

that often we are loving and taking care of

18:53

each other in ways that we don't notice about

18:55

one another. Yeah, and I remember when

18:57

I was a teenager and some relationship wouldn't work

18:59

out. I remember, I think it was my mom,

19:01

but somebody telling me that so much of

19:04

that is about timing. And I sort of maintained

19:06

that Jo and Harry could have had a

19:08

very healthy relationship at another time in their lives.

19:10

And their timing is just so bad, so, so

19:13

bad. Yeah,

19:16

also, I mean, I feel like we have to

19:18

talk about the Daily Prophet and

19:20

Rita Skeeter. There's a lot of journalism in

19:22

this chapter and what is above the fold,

19:27

what is being spoken about, right? Like

19:29

these are all things that we are

19:31

keenly aware of is attention and the

19:33

attention economy, as we call it

19:35

now. And I am wondering

19:37

what you think, like

19:40

what is happening in terms of attention

19:44

and the Daily Prophet in

19:46

journalism in this chapter? Well, I actually

19:48

love this so much because I do

19:51

think on a sort of macro level,

19:54

it's a little mini lesson

19:56

about teaching kids some media

19:58

literacy and basically, I mean,

20:00

I remember reading this in 2003 and there

20:02

was a lot of, let's say,

20:05

politics happening around me and a lot of news. And

20:07

I do think that this chapter sort of

20:10

teaches you that what you're reading

20:12

in the paper isn't necessarily the

20:14

whole story. And that's a good thing to remember

20:16

because I think Rita Skeeter says pretty

20:18

boldly that, you know,

20:20

they're not going to print anything that the Ministry

20:22

of Magic doesn't want them to print. And that's

20:24

a really good thing for these 15-year-olds

20:27

to learn at this particular time and what's going

20:29

to shape up to be a war that they're

20:31

very much involved in, sort of to be critical

20:33

of what's being put out there. And then at

20:35

the same time, really be thinking about how it's

20:37

strategically put out there, which I feel like Hermione

20:39

is, of course, leagues ahead on this by

20:41

getting her to write Harry's story for the

20:43

Quibbler and just saying, you know, it's important

20:45

that the truth is out there, whether it's in

20:48

a mainstream publication or on a sort of

20:50

alt weekly like the Quibbler, at

20:53

least there's a place people can go for

20:55

a different, she says it almost explicitly, like

20:57

a different perspective on what's happening. Yeah. I

21:00

mean, Rita Skeeter, what's so interesting is that

21:02

she says, first of all, fudge is leaning

21:04

on the paper hard. And second, it's not

21:06

the way the wind is blowing. That's not

21:08

what people want to hear. And like the

21:10

daily profit at the end of the day

21:12

is there to make money. And like, sorry,

21:14

kids, like this idea that you have the

21:16

free press, like the

21:19

attention economy is an economy and like you

21:21

have to be able to do both at

21:23

the same time. I do

21:25

think that this is a tough moment for Harry

21:27

who hadn't necessarily been thinking about it in the

21:29

start of terms, whereas for Hermione, she's like, yep,

21:31

duh. So let's move on to the next thing

21:34

in the agenda. Right. Let's leverage

21:36

this. Let's use this. Let's hijack

21:39

this. Yeah, like obviously. And

21:41

we see that like the profit is doing

21:43

such as bidding in terms of saying such

21:45

says that serious is how they got out.

21:48

So that's it. Right. And

21:50

like, there certainly isn't any like investigative journalism

21:52

happening here. Like no one is being interviewed

21:54

as Caban as to what happened. Right.

21:57

Like they have a single source seemingly. And

22:00

like this, what we suspect to be

22:02

murder of this patient at St. Mungo's

22:05

isn't being investigated. Again, it's

22:07

just like one source is telling the Daily

22:09

Prophet one thing. And so I feel

22:11

like that is one of the signs

22:13

of a propaganda machine instead of, you

22:16

know, like a free press is this

22:18

like single source journalism, essentially

22:20

printing press releases as

22:22

if it was news. Yeah. And

22:25

I think also the fact that the

22:27

trio have the added context of knowing

22:30

Sirius and just knowing for sure that

22:32

that's not what's happening kind of gives

22:34

them insight that maybe to their credit

22:36

the rest of the wizarding world doesn't

22:38

have because everybody still thinks that Sirius is

22:41

a fugitive and, you know, doesn't know about

22:43

his complicated relationship with his family and doesn't

22:45

know that he would never do that for

22:47

ballad tricks. That's like insight

22:50

that only they and then by extension

22:52

we have. So it's helpful because

22:54

it helps us see the lie more clearly

22:56

the way that they're sort of realizing it's

22:58

a lie. Yeah. And it kind

23:00

of reminds me of like almost it does remind

23:03

me of pandemic coverage where it's sort of

23:05

like, okay, well, if there's nothing we can do

23:07

about it, I'd rather believe this comforting propaganda than

23:09

feel helpless in the face of something that is

23:11

out of my control. Like that's

23:13

a more comfortable place for an audience to be,

23:15

I think. J.D.

23:19

sleep is essential for boosting energy,

23:21

recovery and well-being. So take your

23:24

sleep to the next level with

23:26

sleep number. With a sleep number

23:28

smart bed, you can individualize your

23:30

comfort level and enjoy a better

23:32

sleep night after night. J.D. Power

23:35

ranks sleep number number one in

23:37

customer satisfaction with mattresses purchased in

23:39

store. And now during sleep numbers,

23:41

president's day sale, say 50% on

23:44

the sleep number limited edition smart

23:46

bed plus special financing for a

23:48

limited time. For J.D.

23:50

Power 2023 award information,

23:52

visit jdpower.com/awards only at

23:55

sleep number stores or

23:57

sleepnumber.com. See store for

23:59

details. Instacart

24:02

shoppers know groceries. They know that

24:04

you can't make guacamole with rock-hard

24:07

avocados. They know how to quickly

24:09

find those peanut butter pretzels you can never find. And

24:11

they keep you in the know by giving you updates

24:14

about your order along the way. Let

24:16

Instacart shoppers help take shopping off your plate

24:18

so you can get time and energy back

24:20

for what really matters. Visit instacart.com or download

24:22

the app to get free delivery on your

24:24

first three orders. Offer valid for a limited

24:26

time, minimum order $10, additional terms apply. Instacart.

24:29

Add life to cart. Before

24:31

we start today's episode I wanted to let

24:33

you know about an amazing virtual class that

24:36

we have coming up and I was able

24:38

to actually snag the faculty of the class

24:40

to tell you about it. Margaret H. Wilson

24:42

I am so excited for your class Sense

24:44

and Sensibility and Fix It Thick. Can you

24:46

please tell everybody about it? I'm really excited

24:49

to work on it. It's going to be

24:51

a seven-week course where we

24:53

read Sense and Sensibility and indulge

24:56

my sense that the book is almost

24:59

perfect. Right. It's about by looking at

25:03

each section and sort of figuring out how

25:05

we might change it. What we'll do each

25:07

week is we will split it between large

25:10

group discussions, small group discussion, and free writing

25:12

time. And in that free writing time people

25:14

will come in with an idea and

25:17

either write or reimagine given scenes and

25:19

interactions to take the story in new

25:22

directions. Colonel Brandon and Marianne will only

25:24

be 15 years apart instead of 20

25:26

years apart. Right. Or maybe we'll

25:28

see one scene where they seem sincerely in

25:30

love. Who knows? So everybody

25:34

you can find out more about

25:36

this amazing class at notsorryworks.com. It

25:38

starts on February 26th and will

25:40

run until April 8th and again

25:42

it is called Sense and Sensibility

25:44

and Fix It Thick with Margaret

25:46

H. Wilson. I'm excited to see

25:49

you there. The

25:54

last place that I think we really see

25:57

attention playing out in a... deeply

26:00

complex way in this chapter is

26:03

with Umbridge. So Umbridge in this

26:05

chapter has a new educational decree.

26:08

She is stopping a flow

26:10

of information that she doesn't want to

26:12

go. She says that teachers can only

26:14

talk about their exact field

26:16

of study and they can't talk about anything

26:18

outside of their field of study. And so

26:21

this means that like McGonagall

26:23

can't be talking about Umbridge in politics,

26:25

right? Like this is a way of

26:27

trying to further silo people, which we

26:30

know is like a way to

26:32

gain control over people and for

26:34

fascism to rise. And it's so

26:36

funny because in theory, what she's

26:38

saying in her doublespeak is only

26:41

talk about your field of study

26:43

and therefore you will be learning

26:45

more. You will be teaching more.

26:47

The kids will be educated more

26:49

because their attention will only be

26:51

on transfiguration and will only be

26:54

on history of magic and you

26:56

know, the charms. But

26:58

instead, we know what's happening and

27:00

instead everybody's paying attention to Umbridge.

27:03

And that is just one

27:05

of the most maddening things to me

27:07

when people constantly are explaining to you

27:09

why their policy is designed a certain

27:11

way, rather than being like, Oh, let

27:13

me look at the policy and redesign

27:15

it if it's not having the desired

27:17

effects, or just admit it, Umbridge, just

27:19

say what you're doing. 100%. And

27:22

also, I think it's so interesting because like,

27:24

I don't think she's a speaking of a

27:27

previous theme of one of your episodes, but

27:29

she's not intellectually humble in any way. So

27:31

I actually do think that she might

27:33

actually think this, but it's much like

27:35

a lot of sort of educational policy

27:37

that doesn't have the input of the people

27:39

in the classrooms. It has

27:41

a completely different impact than its

27:43

intended effect. I think maybe she clocks

27:45

it, but even then nothing's going to keep

27:48

her from believing that this policy is going to

27:50

be beneficial to the students. And my

27:52

favorite moment from that, like sort of sequence

27:54

in the chapter, is Lee Jordan giving her

27:56

a hard time and being

27:58

kind of, you know, transgressive. in his Lee

28:00

Jordan way and just saying like, you're not allowed

28:02

to discipline us for having these practical joke,

28:05

you know, whatever they are, they're like crackers

28:08

or something in the classroom. And he's like, that's

28:10

not your subject. So what are you

28:12

talking about? I loved it. It

28:14

was sorry. It seems as though you're paying attention

28:16

to the wrong thing. You should only be paying

28:18

attention to defense against the dark arts. And

28:21

you should not be paying attention to this. And

28:24

oh my god, there's just nothing

28:26

better than someone calling out someone

28:28

else's hypocrisy. And I even

28:30

love that Umbridge's only answer to that

28:33

is very like, it's heartbreaking

28:35

for Lee and this is abuse and

28:37

disgusting. But you know, when someone has

28:39

resorted to violence rather than

28:41

like answering in an argument that

28:43

they like it is an admission of losing 100%.

28:45

Yeah, 100%. And an exertion of

28:47

power because you have

28:51

lost the intellectual argument. Yeah.

28:55

Typical bully behavior. Yes.

28:58

Lee Jordan, I do think

29:00

is like the great communicator using attention

29:02

again and again for the right things,

29:05

whether he has the megaphone at a

29:07

Quidditch match or here, or

29:09

we'll see him later as a radio

29:11

personality. Like this is a guy

29:14

who takes his moments in which he

29:16

has a megaphone

29:18

and uses it even

29:20

when it's like immaturity used or whatever with like

29:22

so much intention. Yeah,

29:25

he's such a he's such a Gryffindor. I feel like

29:27

he is not cowed by anybody in any of these

29:29

books. He's never really scared. Or

29:32

if he's scared, he doesn't let it impact

29:34

his material actions in the world. So

29:49

hope we are going to do

29:51

sacred imagination, which is a reading

29:54

practice that goes back to St. Ignatius of

29:56

Loyola. And the way that we do it

29:58

on the podcast is that I will

30:00

read you a longer section of the text,

30:02

it's a couple of pages, and

30:05

what I will ask you to do is

30:07

to imagine yourself in the text, either paying

30:09

attention to your senses or new

30:11

emotions that you haven't noticed before,

30:14

you can be a fly on the wall, you can get into

30:16

the head of one of our characters, and

30:18

then we will discuss what we

30:20

maybe noticed for the first time,

30:22

because we've paid this visceral kind of

30:25

attention. Sounds good? Sounds so fun.

30:28

So this section, everybody, is

30:30

we're in the Great Hall, Ron, Harry,

30:32

and Hermione have just finished reading the

30:34

article about the escapees

30:37

from Azkaban, and

30:39

this is now their conversation. "'There

30:43

you are, Harry,' said Ron, looking awestruck.

30:45

"'That's why he was happy last night.'

30:48

"'I don't believe this,' snarled

30:50

Harry. "'Fudge is blaming

30:53

the breakout on Sirius.'

30:56

"'What other options does he have?'

30:58

said Hermione bitterly. "'He can hardly

31:00

say, "'Sorry, everyone, Dumbledore warned me

31:02

this might happen. "'The Azkaban guards

31:04

have joined Lord Voldemort.' "'Stop

31:06

wimping, Ron.' "'And now Voldemort's

31:08

worst supporters have broken out,

31:10

too.' "'I mean, he spent

31:13

a good six months "'telling everyone you

31:15

and Dumbledore are liars, hasn't he?' "'Hermany

31:18

ricked open the newspaper "'and began

31:20

to read the report inside "'while

31:22

Harry looked around the Great Hall.

31:24

"'He could not understand why his fellow

31:26

students "'were not looking scared "'or

31:28

at least discussing the terrible piece

31:31

of news "'on the front page,

31:33

"'but very few of them took the newspaper

31:35

every day "'like Hermione. "'There

31:38

they all were, talking about homework

31:40

and quidditch, "'and who knew what

31:42

other rubbish? "'And outside these wells,

31:45

"'10 more Death Eaters had

31:47

swollen Voldemort's rings.' "'He

31:50

glanced up at the staff table. "'It

31:52

was a different story here. "'Dumbledore

31:55

and Professor McGonagall were deep

31:57

in conversation, "'both looking extremely...

32:00

grave. Professor Sprout had

32:02

the profit propped up against a

32:04

bottle of ketchup, and was reading

32:06

the front page with such concentration

32:08

that she was not noticing the

32:10

gentle drip of eggyolk falling into

32:12

her lap from her stationary spoon.

32:15

Meanwhile at the far end of the table

32:17

Professor Umbridge was tucking into a bowl of

32:19

porridge. For once her pouchy

32:22

toad's eyes were not sweeping the

32:24

great hall looking for misbehaving students.

32:27

She scowled as she gulped down

32:29

her food and every now and

32:31

then she shot a malevolent glance

32:33

up the table to where Dumbledore

32:35

and McGonagall were talking so intently.

32:38

Oh! Hope

32:41

I feel like I would have been some

32:44

dumb student being like, oh my god, can

32:46

you believe how much homework they gave us

32:48

last night? I just feel so

32:51

strongly that that would have been my vibe.

32:53

What did you notice? I

32:56

don't mean to put myself in direct opposition,

32:58

but I kind of the opposite, like the

33:00

only indication of anyone being really what I

33:02

would describe as anxious is when we hear

33:04

from Hermione that Ron Winford at some point.

33:06

And I know the implication is that it's

33:09

because she's using Voldemort's voice, I understand,

33:11

but I do love that. I think Ron

33:13

is very under loved and I love Ron.

33:15

And I do think, you know,

33:17

his sense of humor and intelligence often

33:20

are working in tandem with his anxiety. And

33:22

I think of the trio, I mean, Hermione

33:24

is anxious in a sort of perfectionist type

33:27

A way, but I think that Ron

33:29

is an anxious person who's so

33:32

brave because he's constantly working against the

33:34

messaging he received at home and

33:36

in Wizarding Society to be friends with these

33:39

weirdos. You know, Hermione and Harry having

33:41

no problem saying, he must

33:43

not be named is counter programming to everything

33:45

that Ron grew up hearing. And

33:47

so that moment I really identify with him

33:50

being nervous and Harry looking around and saying,

33:52

no one else is nervous. Your best friend

33:54

is nervous. Your best friend is nervous by

33:56

the mere mention of a name he's and

33:58

Ron has the full content. and he is

34:01

accurately reacting the way that Harry thinks people

34:03

should be reacting. And so I guess in

34:05

that moment I was really thinking about being

34:07

a teenager and being overwhelmed

34:10

with anxiety and sort of like the smell in

34:12

the Great Hall of I'm sure a lot of anxiety BO

34:14

from everyone. And even

34:16

if it's just from like, you know, kids who

34:18

are worried about their homework, it kind of all, you

34:20

know, that sort of teenage smell mixing

34:22

with like the food, mixing with

34:24

like the musty old Hogwarts wood and

34:27

fire and who knows what else going

34:29

on there. I was really,

34:31

really feeling closer on in that moment.

34:34

I have come to love Ron a lot. I had

34:36

a really hard time with him at first.

34:39

And now I'm like, this is a

34:41

kid who's really turning. And what else

34:43

do we want except a

34:45

kid trying his best? I think

34:47

that, you know, as much as I

34:49

was like, I know that if I was in this

34:51

room, I would be one of those kids

34:54

who was just like talking about Quidditch. I

34:56

very much like in my body felt

34:59

for Harry who right

35:01

like we've all had these moments where we

35:03

look up and wonder how life is going

35:05

on for other people. Right. It's

35:08

like, don't you understand? We just

35:10

got this huge piece of news. Everything

35:13

is different. And

35:15

how are you all behaving

35:17

as if it's not? And like incredulity

35:19

combined with like righteous indignation, right?

35:22

Like very like in my

35:25

throat, just like choking on

35:27

it. And then just

35:29

that like feeling of some relief of

35:31

like, well, at least Professor Sprout like

35:33

can't even eat her egg, right? Needing

35:36

that external validation of a big

35:39

emotional reaction and like

35:41

having a piece of calm of like, okay,

35:43

I'm not making this up. I'm not out

35:45

on the limb all by myself. Like McGonagall

35:48

and Dumbledore clearly talking about this and

35:50

Professor Sprout is clearly upset about this. Like,

35:53

I'm not making it up. I think can

35:55

just be like such a calming effect,

35:58

right? Like having someone say, say like

36:00

I see you, I see your reality,

36:03

like I see it too. You know

36:06

we've seen the power of it recently with other people

36:08

seeing the therestrals but I feel like Harry

36:11

is constantly being asked to

36:14

hold a truce that other people are doubting

36:16

and so I'm just like

36:18

imagining the relief he must feel

36:20

that like out in the

36:23

open adults are

36:25

projecting the same reality. Oh yeah

36:28

that makes sense and also the relief of

36:31

being a kid who's feeling anxiety and seeing

36:33

that the adults are also anxious that just

36:35

feels I guess a relief is

36:37

one word for it. I feel

36:39

like yeah that's a relief and terrifying

36:42

right you're like okay I'm not wrong

36:44

to be anxious but oh god even

36:46

you don't know what to do. Totally

36:48

yeah. Well Hope thank

36:50

you so much for doing the sacred

36:53

reading practice. Thank you for inviting me it's

36:55

so funny because when I hear you do

36:57

that on other episodes I always think about

36:59

how that's how I always read like

37:01

especially these books especially as a kid

37:04

I used to insert I did like

37:06

self insert not literal fanfiction but imagining

37:08

myself as like a random Hogwarts student

37:10

passing by so I was so happy that we

37:12

did this. Hi

37:16

everybody it is with great excitement that

37:18

I am telling you about one of

37:21

our new group chaplaincy options called

37:23

showing up for queer kids. If you

37:25

have a queer kid in your life

37:27

who you want to think through how

37:30

to be the most loving and supportive

37:32

adult that you can be then you

37:34

can be a part of this amazing

37:36

group chaplaincy experience with Taylor Bueller. You

37:38

can find out more about this program

37:40

which is going to be on Fridays

37:43

from 1 to 2 30

37:45

Eastern starting March 8th by

37:47

going to not sorry works.com

37:57

This week's voicemail is from Nat Hi

38:01

sacred text team, my name is Nat

38:03

and I use SheHerBranos. I'm

38:05

going from Argentina in response to your

38:08

episode on invisibility. The

38:10

vibrato question made me go straight

38:12

to the concept of neurodivergent masking,

38:14

which is the ability to consciously

38:17

or unconsciously suppress natural responses to

38:19

hide neurodivergent traits and fed in.

38:22

And it is exhausting. During

38:24

your conversation, Vanessa mentioned that tongue's ability

38:27

to change her looks to blend in

38:29

is useful. And while I

38:31

agree with that, I also think about the

38:33

toll it takes on her. The

38:35

text tells us she often uses it

38:37

to entertain people. So I wonder, is

38:40

this painful that she want to do it

38:42

or is it just a way for her

38:44

ability to not be seen as threatening? I

38:46

would love to hear your thoughts on this question.

38:50

I'm sorry to you and I

38:52

didn't know about neurotypes until earlier this year

38:54

when reading about it. I

38:56

realized that I identify with a

38:58

lot of autistic traits like

39:01

masking, misinformation and

39:03

gender biases resulting women and

39:05

transgender people being underdiagnosed until we

39:08

find this information by ourselves. And

39:11

it is possible that after finding out you

39:13

have been masking, you would have a huge

39:15

identity crisis. This is

39:17

something I have been struggling with. So

39:20

when Matt said that what is real is

39:22

whatever is in front of you, I suddenly

39:24

felt validated. Like my

39:26

mask is a part of me that I can

39:28

appreciate as something I developed to be able to

39:30

exist in the world. And being

39:33

aware of it just gives me new tools. As

39:36

Vanessa musically said about the vogurd,

39:38

I think this can also be a

39:41

form of self-creation. So

39:44

I want to thank you guys for that

39:46

discussion. It gave me an imaginative load of

39:48

self-acceptance. And thank you for

39:50

the podcast. You are a blessing for us. Bye.

40:00

around talks and

40:02

like, does it hurt to be a

40:04

metamorphagus and to change in that way?

40:06

Does it cost her anything? And is

40:08

this a coping mechanism

40:10

that she has by entertaining other people

40:13

with it? I think that those are

40:15

really touching and perceptive questions

40:18

for us. And I think

40:20

it's also a reminder that like, we

40:23

just really never know what's going on for somebody else.

40:25

And so I just wanna, yeah, thank you for highlighting

40:28

that and thank you so much for your beautiful

40:30

message. I don't know if

40:32

it's appropriate to sort of recommend something

40:34

else, but this discussion about Tonks really

40:36

reminds me of the graphic novel and

40:38

then later Netflix movie, Mnemonna by N.D.

40:40

Stevenson, but it's about a shape shifter.

40:42

And there's, I think it's mostly probably

40:44

a trans allegory, but it is very

40:46

much about people who sort of need

40:48

to change forms that the

40:50

main character is a little girl who

40:52

can become a dragon. And this discussion is

40:54

the huge part of the plot of both

40:56

the book and the Netflix adaptation. And it's

40:59

a really wonderful exploration of these ideas that

41:01

I think are in this column. And I

41:03

love this idea. I just feel like what

41:05

we know about Tonks is so little and

41:07

other people have, you know, written sort

41:09

of similarly about similar characters. I'd love

41:11

to know more. I'd also read a

41:13

standalone Tonks novel for what it's worth.

41:16

I would read a standalone Tonks novel. Who

41:18

wouldn't? It's

41:21

now time for us to honor members of our community who've

41:28

been loved and lost. Gerald

41:33

Dolman, who is 90, a husband,

41:36

father, grandfather, great grandfather,

41:38

and general of Grandpa

41:40

Dolman's boot camp. Joan

41:46

Howley, who is 83, a loving grandmother who

41:52

celebrated everyone. Elizabeth's

42:00

three babies, never born,

42:03

precious, wanted, cherished,

42:06

and remembered. May

42:12

their memories be a blessing to us all. Hope

42:20

we now get to offer a blessing for

42:22

a character in the chapter. Who

42:24

would you like to place? You

42:26

know what? You've seen this story in this

42:29

show. I think Jo is going through

42:31

it and needs it and is another

42:33

character I would read an entire series

42:35

about. I think she's really smart and

42:37

really sensitive and gets the short end

42:39

of the stick here. And we know

42:41

that she's going to have future romantic

42:43

partners who see her more fully and

42:45

appreciate her better. So I want to

42:48

offer it to Jo. Yeah. This

42:51

is a tough year for her. This is

42:53

going down as a tough couple years.

42:56

Hope I know we talked about him a little bit,

42:58

but I really want to bless Lee Jordan because he

43:01

is speaking truth to power to

43:03

Umbridge and calling her out on

43:05

her nonsense. But he is also

43:07

an inspiration and resistance. Fred

43:09

and George are going to leave Hogwarts

43:12

in this great way and say

43:14

give her hell peeps. We

43:16

think of Fred and George as being on the cutting

43:18

edge of that. Lee Jordan

43:20

is also putting himself

43:23

on the line in order

43:25

to diminish the

43:28

power and credibility of Umbridge. And

43:31

I just think it's incredibly brave

43:33

and really moving when people are

43:35

scared and do the brave thing. And

43:37

so I want to shout out Lee Jordan for,

43:39

I don't know, being like a real leader in

43:42

this. And doing

43:44

it with humor, we love Lee. I

43:46

know. Why is he so great?

43:50

Next week we are going to be reading

43:52

book five chapter twenty six, theme

43:54

and unforeseen through the theme

43:57

of doubt with Matt Potts.

44:01

Our big reminder before we say

44:03

goodbye today is that Hope Rehack

44:05

is going to be teaching a

44:07

class, a quick and dirty

44:09

history of queer representation in TV.

44:12

You can find out more about it

44:14

at notsorryworks.com. It's going

44:16

to be amazing. We also have an

44:18

amazing class with Taylor Bueller called Showing

44:21

Up for Queer Kids and you can

44:23

also sign up for that at not

44:25

sorry works dot com. You can always

44:27

subscribe for ad-free episodes at Apple Podcasts

44:29

or through our patreon at

44:31

patreon.com/ Harry Potter S