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1:40

Listeners, it's Casper. Before. Today's

1:42

episode I want to let you know

1:44

that this month Not Sorry is hosting

1:47

our annual Don't Be A Does Leave

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Fundraiser for On The Rise. On The

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2:43

you everyone. Let's do this. Chapter

2:52

27 The Centaur and the Sneak I'll

2:56

bet you wish you hadn't given

2:58

up divination now, don't you Hermione?

3:00

asked Parvity, smirking. It

3:03

was breakfast time, a few days

3:05

after the sucking of Professor Trelawney,

3:07

and Parvity was curling her eyelashes

3:10

around her wand and examining the

3:12

effect in the back of her

3:14

spoon. I'm Vanessa

3:16

Zoltan and I'm Matt Potts and

3:19

this is Harry Potter and the Sacred

3:21

Text. Matt, before

3:24

we get started, I need

3:27

to put out a request out

3:29

there. We need voicemails and

3:32

I would like a voicemail

3:34

specifically about this opening sentence. How

3:38

is she curling her eyelashes

3:40

around her wand? Not with

3:42

her wand, but around her

3:44

wand? Somebody, leave us

3:47

a voicemail about more than this

3:49

please. We love getting voicemails from

3:51

you, but also please address this

3:53

because it confuses me and I

3:55

think prepositions matter, everyone. And

3:57

Of course you can subscribe for ad-

4:00

Three episode on Apple podcasts and then match.

4:02

Do you want to tell people what we're

4:04

talking about on our every flavored been conversation

4:06

today. They were to talk

4:08

about switches. From. Splitting culturally spitting

4:10

has a bad reputation and Vanessa and I

4:12

are going to reflect upon that real think

4:14

about like. Why is there

4:17

this that station about splitting in our

4:19

culture and should there be. What?

4:21

Does opposition and spitting. Join.

4:24

A pitcher undefined up. On

4:27

business and. Map.

4:29

Today we are discussing the theme of

4:31

discernment and it as your turn to

4:33

tell a story. Lots.

4:35

Of the platforms. Yeah, I'm happy to tell

4:37

the story about disarming Vanessa because Ashley the

4:40

sermon is a pretty important. Like.

4:42

Concepts in my religious person in Christianity

4:44

and especially like four days people like

4:46

one of the it's an official process

4:48

like when you're getting or danger to

4:50

go through an official administrative process which

4:52

is called discernment and whole idea is

4:54

like you're trying to figure out what

4:56

the right path forward for you is

4:58

like. Maybe it's sort a ministry but

5:00

maybe some other kind of of ministry.

5:02

And the reason why it's a deliberative

5:04

process is because in many ways the

5:06

most obvious way to serve a person

5:08

community might be as the ordained minister

5:10

and leader of it right. But it's not

5:12

the only way to serve and so the trick

5:14

is to forgot where you would be best. Called.

5:17

To surf rights And so I've

5:19

like menace. kind of almost unending

5:21

state of discernment since. My

5:24

late teens early twenties when I was starting

5:26

to really seriously think about the process of

5:28

entering ordain minister in his kind of that

5:30

process of disarm it has followed be through

5:32

every step of professional decisions I've made like

5:34

what's the right path for for me and

5:37

it was especially true. In a

5:39

when the job I currently have when it

5:41

became available. I. guess my the

5:43

five or six years ago now i don't

5:45

mom saturday it but the minister of harvard

5:47

university church became the dean of divinity school

5:49

someplace else in the country and it was

5:51

kind of a surprise to a lot of

5:53

people in the harvard community into the job

5:55

sort of unexpectedly became open and a few

5:57

people called me and were like, you know,

5:59

Matt, you should think about applying for this

6:01

job. And I learned later that

6:04

another handful of people nominated me, maybe pursuing this

6:06

job. And so it led to this process

6:08

of discernment where I was like, is this a job I want?

6:10

Is this something that I ought to do? And

6:12

Collette and I talked about it and we reflect

6:14

upon it. And I talked to some of those

6:17

colleagues who had nominated me. I talked to some

6:19

of the colleagues who recommended me and I thought

6:21

about it and, you know, did the discerning thing,

6:23

which I'd been trained to do ever since I

6:25

started thinking about ministry. At the end

6:27

of that process, like I decided with a

6:29

fair amount of confidence that I did not

6:32

want this job, that I was serving a

6:34

church down on Cape Cod. Collette

6:36

was working at the church. The commute was

6:38

not great coming to Harvard, but I liked our

6:40

community. I liked where we lived. Everybody seemed happy.

6:42

My parents were moving to the town where we

6:44

were living. It just seemed like all things considered,

6:47

although the opportunity up here at Harvard was great,

6:49

all things considered, that was the best

6:51

place for me. And so in this process of

6:54

discernment, I had made this

6:56

decision, right? You know, I told versions

6:58

of the story on the podcast before, but then when new

7:00

leadership came to the church, I was serving down at Cape

7:02

Cod. It was a bad fit. And

7:05

a lot of what I thought was true about

7:07

my position there and our position at the church

7:10

didn't seem true anymore. And

7:12

that led me to reconsider the

7:14

Harvard job. It had always been appealing to

7:16

me. I don't want to give the impression that it only

7:18

became appealing to me because something else was

7:21

unappealing. But the fact that that other

7:23

thing was less appealing made me more

7:25

seriously consider, okay, what else is

7:28

there? What other opportunities might there be? It made

7:30

me return to my discernment and start thinking through

7:33

what it might mean to move our family from the

7:35

Cape up to Cambridge and for me to think about

7:37

the church and its ministry up here

7:39

in a different way, right? And

7:42

at the end of that discernment, I started thinking,

7:44

well, maybe that is the right place for

7:46

me and for us. And I did

7:48

throw my hat in the ring in the selection

7:50

process. And you know, the

7:53

rest is history. I ended up here.

7:55

Yay. The reason why I tell this story is

7:57

that I want to fold my etymology corner in

8:00

into this story a little bit. The

8:02

word discernment comes from a Latin word, a

8:05

disernary, which just means to

8:07

separate. Like if you have a

8:09

mess of things, if you have like Legos on the floor

8:12

and you wanna separate them into their colors, you would

8:14

disernary them. Like you get them all organized, right? And

8:17

a lot of what we do, I think,

8:19

when we make these like monumentous discernment decisions,

8:21

like what is my path forward? We're

8:24

trying to sort and separate all the details out,

8:26

all the things that kind of tangle up in

8:28

our intuitions and our instance. We separate them out

8:30

and we try to make sense of them so

8:32

we can make an ordered decision,

8:34

right? But those decisions aren't

8:36

necessarily final because new

8:39

information emerges. Like someone might come and dump a

8:41

new pile of Legos in your pile and you

8:43

have to do some more sorting. And suddenly the

8:46

thing that didn't make sense before makes

8:48

new sense. One of

8:50

the things about discernment, again, that I've kind

8:52

of learned from my relationship to this process

8:55

as a Christian minister is that it's kind of never ending.

8:57

You might find yourself in situations where you feel more

9:00

stable, where you're not actively disowning because the place you

9:02

are feels like it fits. But

9:04

all of us change and grow and the communities we're

9:06

in change and grow and nothing

9:08

that fits today is gonna fit forever. And

9:11

so part of the process of discernment

9:13

is also being alert to the possibility

9:16

that you might need to be discerning again. Now,

9:19

what I love about that story is that

9:21

I think that it gets to one

9:24

of the many complicated things about discernment, which

9:26

is feeling the tension of an unexamined life

9:28

is not worth living. And

9:30

all I'm doing is examining my life and

9:32

therefore I'm not living it. And

9:35

to some extent what I am hearing you say is that

9:38

the moment to pause and live are where

9:40

the details feel stable for a certain amount

9:43

of time. And then

9:45

when someone comes and adds new Legos

9:47

to your pile, then you're like, oh,

9:49

okay, it's time to examine again. But

9:52

we do get these moments of reprieve when we've

9:54

sorted all of the Legos and then it can

9:56

be up to us to be like, I'd like

9:58

to sort them differently. But yeah,

10:01

that was just, it's

10:03

a really helpful distinction

10:05

for me of when I'm

10:07

in those moments where I'm like, I feel like

10:09

I've been asking myself the same question over and

10:12

over again, you know, to be like, okay, let's

10:14

just admit that the details stay the

10:16

same. So we're going to sit with this for a

10:18

while. I don't know. There's something about

10:20

the cyclical nature of discernment that I feel like

10:22

you've really helped parse out for me. Yeah.

10:26

And I think for me also, like the way I

10:28

approach decisions is I kind of feel like, okay,

10:31

after that decision, then everything will stay the same

10:33

forever because it will be over. Exactly.

10:35

And then I'm done. And then

10:37

I'm done. And all I need to do is make the

10:39

right decision. And then I never have to

10:41

decide again. Right. Right. And

10:44

that's, that's all those are often the stakes I put on my decisions. And

10:46

actually, if you think about the way our lives are, it never goes that

10:48

way. You know what? It's not like we

10:50

never said this before. It's the next right thing,

10:52

right? Like you are, you're making a decision for

10:55

like, this is the information I have. But

10:58

it's an illusion thinking that and therefore it

11:00

will always be the right decision. Like we

11:02

always have to be alert to the possibility

11:04

that things will change and be receptive to

11:06

like the world suggesting to us that we

11:09

begin the process of discernment again. Yep.

11:12

Vanessa, you are going to be recapping this chapter.

11:15

Sure I am. In a mere 30 seconds.

11:18

The whole thing perfectly. Three, two,

11:21

one, go. So for Renze

11:23

is now teaching divination and it's very

11:25

exciting and Hermione's like, I don't know,

11:27

it's not that exciting. And

11:30

then they have DA practice and everybody is

11:32

practicing their patronuses. And

11:34

suddenly, um, Umbridge

11:36

and Draco are invading

11:39

the DA practice and then Harry gets

11:41

pulled into the office with Marietta Edgecombe

11:43

who has told Umbridge about

11:45

the DA and Fudge

11:48

comes and Dumbledore disappears because he was about

11:50

to get arrested. Wow.

11:53

Words are

11:56

not words. Words are not

11:58

accessible to me today. I

12:00

thought that was great. Okay, Matt, on your

12:02

mark, get set, go. So,

12:04

Forenze is a teacher of the

12:07

prediction thing now. Whatever it's called. Oh my gosh,

12:09

this is going poorly. And he says,

12:12

humans don't know anything, but this is hard. And

12:14

then Umbridge has said, Forenze

12:17

doesn't know what I'm doing, some things are more important than

12:19

a job. And then there are DA practice and Umbridge and

12:21

Malphoy come and Malphoy trips and then Umbridge takes him and

12:24

Dumbledore is like, you should just lie, Harry, but

12:26

only with his eyes. And then Harry's like, no,

12:28

actually I did it. And he stuns everybody and

12:30

Kingsley made her lie. And then Dumbledore.

12:36

So good. I have to hear about it. Wasn't good.

12:38

I feel like the first 10 seconds, I

12:41

wandered around a little bit. Trying to remember

12:43

what it is that Forenze teaches. Divination!

12:47

Vanessa, you know, in light of the story I

12:49

told you about how discernment for many

12:51

of us is often in the context of like

12:53

trying to figure out what the best way forward

12:56

is. Like part of what

12:58

you're doing when you do that is trying to anticipate the future.

13:00

To divine the future, maybe? That's

13:03

right, to define the future. Like what will the future

13:05

be like? And which version of

13:07

me, which possible version of me will

13:09

be happiest in that future? Sure. And

13:12

the story I told showed how when different futures

13:14

come into relief, you have different

13:16

ideas about which version of yourself might be happier in

13:18

them. It's just interesting to hear that, you

13:21

know, the first part of this chapter is about Forenze

13:25

and this divination class. So

13:27

it's no longer Trelawney, it's no longer up

13:29

in the tower. It's in a

13:31

replicated forest situation because

13:33

Forenze has been banished from his

13:35

herd. He tells us for for

13:38

gaining to help the humans. And the

13:40

kind of dismissiveness of the centaurs towards the

13:42

humans, you know, we've heard this in previous

13:45

books, Forenze kind of alludes to it again

13:47

in this book, it has to do with

13:49

like sort of the unreliability of

13:51

humans and their kind of thickleness. And

13:54

he seems to assign this also to

13:56

Trelawney. Interestingly, he says, you know, she may

13:59

have seen before. But the little

14:01

predictions she makes or pretends to make, that's

14:03

not seeing. She says

14:05

seeing requires this like

14:07

deep, deep extended expertise

14:10

in and of the stars. And

14:13

you know, attending to the shape of

14:15

smoke and like this training, this long

14:17

training where Bayou's can start to see

14:19

shapes, separate out details one from another

14:21

to get some sense of

14:24

what the future holds, right? But the thing

14:26

that's really like maybe most interesting about the

14:28

whole pedagogical approach of Firenze

14:30

in the beginning of this chapter

14:32

is he keeps impressing upon them

14:34

that, you know, centaur divination is

14:36

better than human, but

14:39

it's still super unpredictable. Like

14:41

you're still going to be mostly wrong. You're

14:43

still going to be constantly looking for new information. One

14:46

of the things the narrator tells us is that

14:48

Harry thinks to himself that this class is unlike

14:50

any class he's been in before because the teacher,

14:52

Firenze, keeps telling him like, you know, I just

14:55

told you this, but don't trust it because it

14:57

could be wrong, right? It

14:59

really reminds me of the conversations we

15:01

had in before about the topic of

15:03

intellectual humility with Professor Van Tongeren from

15:05

Hope College and the Greater Good Science

15:07

Center, because this is what intellectual humility

15:09

is, right? It means doing your

15:11

best to training yourself to have as much

15:13

expertise as you can, but being super open

15:16

to the possibility that you are wrong and

15:18

that new information may arrive, which will change

15:20

your opinion. And it's interesting because Firenze that

15:22

he says that's what divination is.

15:26

That's what discern in the future is. It means being

15:28

open to new information. And this is

15:30

the thing that Harry has never heard before from

15:33

any human teacher. Yeah. And

15:35

it's so telling that this is why the

15:37

centaurs are so dismissive of human knowledge and

15:39

wisdom. Yeah, that nobody has ever said

15:41

to the kids before. Part of being a

15:43

good student is actually questioning things. Yeah, that's

15:46

right. You might be wrong. Yeah. Right.

15:49

And so might I. Like that's a teacher has never said to

15:51

you, this might be wrong. Let's talk about

15:53

it, right? I

15:55

love thinking about divination in

15:58

terms of discernment. Because

16:00

when we are attempting to discern things, that is

16:02

what we're trying to do. We're trying to divine

16:05

the future. We're trying to look at the Legos

16:07

in front of us and sort them in order

16:09

to figure out what the best possible option is

16:12

for us within our limited

16:14

control. And I

16:16

love that forenze is like,

16:18

look, this isn't doable, but

16:21

I find it's important, or

16:24

at least how we think about it

16:26

is important, and therefore I'm gonna dedicate

16:28

my life and actually sacrifice a great

16:30

deal in order to teach you all

16:32

about it. It is weird to

16:34

me, do you have a theory as to why

16:37

he is dedicating his life to

16:39

this thing that he doesn't think

16:42

is real? Like, I'm

16:44

kind of likening it to a doctor

16:47

on a cutting edge of

16:49

like a new medical technology who's like, we

16:52

don't know if this works yet, but it's

16:54

super important to try, but

16:56

that metaphor doesn't seem perfect to me.

16:59

I mean, it seems to me that, especially

17:01

from previous books, we're meant to

17:03

think that forenze has more of

17:06

a concern for

17:08

the order of things in

17:10

the human realm than other centaurs,

17:12

right? Like I think he,

17:15

like the rest of his herd, see

17:17

that the humans are in a time

17:19

of relative calm between two periods of

17:21

intense war. And this comes

17:23

to the question of discernment again, right? I think the

17:26

other centaurs are like, let the humans fight their wars.

17:28

It won't impact us. But

17:30

forenze is saying, I

17:32

don't know that it won't impact us. And

17:34

I don't know that we ought to just stand

17:36

by when an evil of this magnitude is coming

17:38

to the world. And so he feels some obligation

17:40

to support the humans as

17:42

they exit this period of kind

17:44

of illusory peace and return to this period

17:46

of intense war. So I think

17:49

that's why he wants to do it. I think

17:51

that's why he's willing to make the sacrifices. You

17:53

name that too is an act of discernment, right?

17:55

Yeah. And this has made it the important

17:57

thing to understand that he has seen the same future. that

18:00

the other centaurs have seen, but

18:02

he's decided to make a different decision. He has

18:05

separated out what the implications might be

18:07

for him and for others differently than them. And so

18:09

he's decided to do something differently and to get on

18:11

the side of Dumbledore. I

18:13

love it when people see

18:17

a big problem and

18:20

then figure out an exact way

18:22

that their skills and gifts can

18:24

help address the problem. And Forenze,

18:27

right, like, is obviously someone who's

18:29

in this position who's like, okay,

18:31

the humans need help here. And

18:35

there's an open teaching position for

18:37

a thing that I know how

18:39

to do, right? Like, there's literally

18:41

a call for me, someone with

18:43

my exact skills in a

18:45

way that can like really frustrate Umbridge,

18:48

right? Like, he's really fully seizing this

18:50

moment. And we see

18:52

the extent to which

18:55

he is a discerning person because he

18:58

doesn't quite do this same thing with

19:00

Hagrid, right? He fully inserts

19:02

himself into this job at Hogwarts, right?

19:05

And yet he holds Harry behind in

19:07

order to tell Harry that he thinks

19:10

that Harry should tell Hagrid that Hagrid should

19:12

stop working with Grop, right? But in a

19:14

coded way. But he

19:16

doesn't fully insert himself. He's not friends with

19:19

Hagrid. He's not welcome into the forest right

19:21

now. He gives his

19:23

opinion through a friend. A friend is

19:25

someone who's very good at discerning right

19:27

size to NASA. Like this job was

19:29

written for me. It comes at

19:32

tremendous risk, but it was written

19:34

for me and this matters to me. So I'm gonna take the risk.

19:38

Helping Hagrid also

19:40

takes tremendous risk. And that's actually not a task

19:42

that was written for me. So I'm not gonna

19:44

do it. Yeah,

19:46

I think that's right. I think that also

19:48

this question of like seeing the

19:51

same details or predicting the

19:53

risks of possible futures Against

19:55

what our own role in that is gonna be. Like

19:57

That is also a question of discernment, right? I Mean,

20:00

Be left strache bit of the be more

20:02

concrete about at rights what. Forensics,

20:04

Says the Harry is. Tell

20:06

Hagrid it's not working Now We, as readers

20:08

who have been through this book before, know

20:11

we've been seeing Hagrid. I'll beat up an

20:13

injured. Every. Time with new wounds.

20:15

What we learned later on his book is

20:17

that he has been kind of trying to

20:19

take care of his half brother grub and

20:22

he's doing it because he wants to retain

20:24

his connection to this one guy and and

20:26

have a potential ally in the coming war.

20:28

In addition, say like cultivating this relationship you

20:30

have an affection for a monstrous creatures and

20:32

he also as affection for his brother right?

20:34

And so they're all kinds of reasons why

20:36

is doing it's but he separated out the

20:39

pieces he's discern and said like you know

20:41

once it's worth it's me to do this.

20:44

Friends, it isn't worth of it. Frenzied see

20:46

the puzzle teacher seats, it seems too risky.

20:48

He has discerned that Haggard shouldn't do it,

20:50

but Hagrid doesn't seem oblivious to all these

20:53

risks. As a lovely payments Haggard says, the

20:55

Harry, which is thirsting more important, even a

20:57

job frighten knows exactly Rusty taking. He know

21:00

that he might lose his job, he knows

21:02

that he's coming under suspicion because a hobby

21:04

that he has all the times, and he's

21:06

like, yeah, those are the risks but. Of.

21:09

The possible future past I see which

21:11

are very similar to the ones friends.

21:13

It sees this as what I need

21:15

to do right and so like friends,

21:17

I can't actually put himself in habits

21:19

position still given those details. Given that

21:22

information in it sounds like he has,

21:24

but Hagrid still has to make a

21:26

decision. Haggard is the one who decides

21:28

what risks are worth taking for which

21:30

features. He. Anticipates. Yeah.

21:33

I mean, you can't discern for

21:35

other people's rights, and I think

21:38

one of the things that so

21:40

beautiful that this moment attack that.

21:44

Cheating this one is that Sunday says like.

21:46

Hell. Is really admired hackers really

21:48

since efforts nonhuman teachers and

21:50

it's. I love that friends

21:52

a see that in separate, but I

21:55

also lasts had read is well aware

21:57

as a consequences because I just think

21:59

it. the gesture,

22:03

so much more meaningful to like have a

22:05

deep understanding of what the potential consequences are.

22:09

And yeah, it means that he's discerning

22:11

and not just like making a decision

22:13

emotionally and not just stumbling

22:15

one foot in front of the other, which are all

22:18

things that there is a time and a place to

22:20

just make emotional decisions and to like simply go forward

22:22

because you have no other option. We

22:24

have seen Hagrid do that in different phases

22:26

of his life before and that is not

22:28

what he's doing here and it feels like

22:30

an important distinction in this case because the

22:33

stakes are so high. Yeah, like you said

22:35

you can't discern for somebody else. You can make a

22:37

pro-con list for somebody else, right, and tell them like

22:39

all the reasons why and all the reasons why not,

22:41

but you can't actually tell them how much they care

22:43

about each of the items on either side of that

22:46

list. So you can give information, but the discernment

22:48

which is always be connected to like values and

22:51

like what it's worth to me and what risk

22:53

I'm willing to take is always going to come

22:55

down to the person for whom

22:57

they are most intimate and most immediate and that's what Hagrid

22:59

is doing here and that's also you

23:01

know what Hagrid just understands. He's not really unsettled

23:03

at all by this

23:06

centaur who makes all the predictions, who's you know renowned

23:08

to be the person that sees the future saying it's

23:10

not going to work. He's just like well maybe it

23:12

won't work but this is what I got to do

23:15

and he just he has that confidence because he knows

23:17

what he values and it's a

23:19

really great moment from Hagrid. Yeah, and

23:21

it's actually interesting how sometimes we can

23:23

to some extent define that something is

23:27

quote-unquote doomed and feel so like

23:29

what would be the feeling

23:31

of me not trying. Like sometimes

23:34

it really can even if you kind of know

23:36

the future or you feel like you have to

23:39

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25:46

See. System and Vanessa about. You

25:49

know, making emotional decisions and it makes me

25:51

think of. The final scene is chapter. Dumbledore.

25:54

his army has been found out the students

25:56

of scattered harry while running away as fucked

25:58

up by malfoy and Umbridge catches him and

26:00

takes him to the headmaster's office. And

26:03

when she and Harry get there, Fudge

26:05

is there and McGonagall's there. And

26:08

Kingsley's Shaka bolt is there from the ministry,

26:10

presumably with Fudge and Dumbledore

26:12

is there, plus all the portraits

26:14

of former headmasters on the walls.

26:16

And there is this kind of

26:18

like quasi hearing or trial where

26:20

Fudge and Umbridge try to

26:23

get the truth out of Harry and to bring in

26:25

Mary at Edgecombe, who is covering her face and is

26:27

weeping because the hex that Hermione put on her has

26:29

taken its effect and seems like she's afraid

26:31

it'll get worse if she says more. And

26:34

there's all this urgency. Everything has come to a

26:36

head. There is not a lot

26:38

of time to make careful decisions. You know, it's

26:40

not like me in the story I told where

26:42

I get to talk to colleagues and talk to

26:44

mentors and talk to peers and talk to, you

26:47

know, Colette and people I care about my life and

26:49

try to figure out what could be the best path.

26:51

And not even like what friends is doing with Hagrid

26:53

or Hagrid is already kind of thought through this and

26:56

all the implications. This is like, we

26:58

need to decide now. And a bunch of

27:01

people make split second decisions. Like Dumbledore

27:04

shakes his head at Harry very subtly to

27:06

kind of tell him that he

27:08

ought to lie. And

27:10

Shaka bolt makes a split second

27:12

decision to put an imperious curse

27:14

on Maria, right? And then

27:16

Dumbledore makes a split second decision to take

27:19

the fall. And

27:21

McGonagall makes a split second decision

27:23

to protect Marietta and Harry while

27:25

Dumbledore is stunning everybody else in

27:28

the room. The question I have for

27:30

you is like, what's the relationship between

27:32

split second decisions or intuitions or instincts

27:35

and something like discernment.

27:38

My own instinct is that there is something there,

27:40

but, but tell me more about what you think

27:42

the relation is. I have a very

27:44

strong theory on this. Oh, great. That moments

27:47

of peace or calm are

27:49

where you should be practicing

27:52

the values that you want to

27:54

come out in you in

27:57

moments of crisis where you have.

28:00

to go with your gut. And

28:02

that is why I started a podcast called

28:04

Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. So we

28:06

could all practice treating one another as sacred,

28:09

treating things as sacred and thinking about these

28:11

things. That's fascinating. Yeah. Like

28:13

I really believe that. I think that that's

28:15

all it is, right? The discernment is in

28:17

discerning what your values are just

28:20

in your everyday life and how you want

28:22

to live up to those values in

28:25

your everyday life in order to

28:27

be practiced at them when these

28:31

high stakes, often very quick

28:33

decisions happen, right? And we

28:36

see something about Dumbledore here, which is

28:38

that we don't know why, but like

28:40

the instinct that comes out in him

28:42

is protect Harry, right?

28:44

Like, and that's something beautiful. And maybe

28:46

it's something else, you know, maybe

28:48

it's a more strategic decision of like, I

28:51

can be forgiven in a way that here,

28:53

I don't know. But like, it's very clear

28:55

with McGonagall. McGonagall has trained herself with 50

28:57

years of teaching and students

29:00

first. That is my job. My

29:02

job is students first. Kingsley is a

29:04

trained or, right? Like you do what you've got

29:06

to do in order to get the outcome that

29:08

you want. And if that means doing an unforgivable

29:10

curse on a child, then that means doing an

29:13

unforgivable curse on a child. And like

29:15

he, like as a cop who's been

29:17

taught that like these are weapons that you use

29:19

in order to work on a case. And

29:21

so I don't always want to hold people accountable for

29:24

the decisions that they make in these tough moments. I

29:26

know I don't want to be held accountable for the

29:28

decisions that I always make in these tough moments. But

29:31

I do think it's our responsibility

29:33

to spend our lives discerning so

29:35

that we can behave as values

29:38

based as possible when we

29:40

get called upon in

29:43

these moments. to

30:00

the fact. Yes, that's a better way of

30:02

saying that. Yeah. I mean, that's what's so important about

30:04

Dumbledore. Dumbledore is a smart guy. But

30:06

like you were saying, like maybe there was

30:08

some strategic four dimensional chess going on maybe,

30:10

but actually that's that's the whole point. He's

30:13

doing four dimensional chess about strategy all the

30:15

time, which is why in the moment

30:17

when there's no time to do it, he's just like

30:19

protectory. Yeah, right. I

30:21

don't think he's actually doing a strategy. He's like, you know what,

30:23

I'm not gonna go wrong here if I live into this value.

30:25

We'll figure out the strategy later. Yeah, I

30:28

agree. And it's also true with shackable like

30:30

shackable. It's not just a copy. He's also

30:32

been a double agent for a long time.

30:34

He has been making these value judgments about

30:36

when it's right to betray somebody, when it's

30:38

right to take an action that's underhanded and

30:41

to violate like what normally goes

30:43

for integrity. It's he's making those decisions every day.

30:45

And so he's able to make one here, whether

30:47

it's the right one or wrong one. I'm still

30:49

pretty ambivalent about an impureous curse

30:51

on a child who's obviously suffering this

30:54

terrible torment, right? But he makes it

30:56

quickly because he makes decisions like these

30:59

every day. And McGonagall absolutely. That's absolutely true

31:01

with McGonagall, right? Like she did not think

31:03

twice about this because every day she's thinking

31:05

about how do I protect students every day

31:07

she's been worried about Harry, but also not

31:09

just worried about Harry, but also students like

31:11

Marietta, right? So like, it's not just

31:14

like, it's not an instinct to just protect Harry in that

31:16

room. If any student in this room is her

31:18

charge, and then she doesn't have to think or

31:20

do the strategic thinking or this discernment because she

31:22

discerns every day, the action

31:25

is habituated. Yeah. I

31:27

mean, we also see Harry's discernment

31:30

come out, right? Which is like, take

31:32

ownership, but also listen

31:34

to Dumbledore, right? And

31:36

like, so you actually see both things in Harry,

31:38

but like his first instinct is like, I'm just

31:40

going to take the fall. I'm just going to be honest.

31:43

And defiance too, right? He's got this defiance against

31:45

the ministry. Yeah. But also checking

31:47

in with Dumbledore. The thing I want to

31:49

talk about with Marietta, though, is

31:53

I think it is like almost

31:55

a kindness that

31:57

shakable takes the disservice.

32:00

discernment away from her in this

32:02

moment. She has been

32:04

a sneak and

32:06

has tattled and has

32:09

his hex. And

32:12

it's all complicated. But

32:15

she in this moment is really, she

32:17

did not mean to become a linchpin

32:19

and like Harry maybe getting

32:21

expelled, right? Like Umbridge pulling her in

32:24

front of the minister of magic. Like

32:26

we can assume a lot of bad

32:28

intentions in Marietta here. I do not

32:30

think that this is what she meant

32:32

to have happen to her. And

32:35

the fact that Kingsley Shacklebull

32:37

literally takes her

32:39

ability to make a decision away from

32:42

her is not something that should be

32:44

done. But I can imagine personally experiencing

32:46

it as a kindness when someone is

32:48

like, do you know what? This

32:51

decision is actually above your pay grade. I

32:54

have more information. I will do this for

32:56

you. Because Umbridge is just

32:58

using her. Everyone in this room is just using her.

33:01

And again, like, I am not

33:03

saying that what Kingsley does is

33:05

just or good. I am just

33:07

saying that sometimes there's so much

33:09

to discern. And she

33:11

thought she had discerned something, right? Rightly or wrongly,

33:14

she thought she had looked at all the information

33:16

and the right thing to do was to go

33:18

to Umbridge and report on the DA. And

33:21

now she's getting all this new information, including that

33:23

there's a hex with sneak being written across her

33:25

face. I

33:27

don't know. I would be like, well, now what do I do?

33:30

I just there's so many moments in my life where I'm

33:32

like, can somebody please sweep in and just like, tell me

33:34

what to do. And Kingsley

33:37

kind of does. Yeah,

33:39

right. You wish they could happen some way

33:41

other than an unforgivable curse, right? Yeah, no,

33:43

I do. I do. Yeah, I

33:45

know you do. Right. And but like, what should happen is one

33:47

of these adults should be like, obviously, go

33:50

to the hospital wing. Yeah, let's take

33:52

care of you. Right. Like, let's

33:54

give us some information. Adults are responsible to find

33:57

out more. Maybe you know other things, but like

33:59

the most important. thing is not that you tell

34:02

us this information in the next 15 seconds. You

34:05

are obviously in distress and you've been hexed. Let's go

34:07

take care of that, right? Like no one's really taken

34:09

care of Marietta except McGonagall

34:13

right at the end. Who sees a student

34:15

in distress? You know. Matt,

34:18

I will say there was one thing

34:20

that I noticed in this chapter that

34:22

if I had noticed it before, I

34:24

forgot, which is that this is the

34:26

first time in the books that I

34:28

think I've noticed a true disability accommodation.

34:31

Harry is talking to Parvady and

34:33

Lavender about going up to divination and he's

34:35

like, aren't you guys going up to the

34:37

tower? And they're like,

34:39

no, dodo brain frenzy can't climb

34:42

a ladder. So like

34:44

that's not where divination is

34:46

anymore. And I don't

34:48

know. I just hadn't noticed that that

34:50

is a disability accommodation and I love

34:52

that Hogwarts does it and does it

34:54

so beautifully. Like really

34:57

sets up this like magic,

34:59

incredible space where he can do his teaching.

35:02

It's not like, well, we found you a

35:04

place that you can climb to. You're welcome.

35:06

Right? Like they still do a really good

35:08

job. I don't think we have a ton

35:10

of evidence that Hogwarts would

35:12

do that. And so it's

35:14

nice. You can imagine that frenzy probably

35:16

just a lot of behind the scenes

35:18

self-advocating. Yeah, to

35:20

tie to our last point, you don't

35:22

get a sense that Hogwarts has habituated

35:24

itself to these sorts of habituitions, right?

35:26

It's not making it a habit of

35:29

discerning the most equitable or best

35:31

spaces for people of different abilities,

35:33

but here they do it and you're right. That's great.

35:49

Matt, today we're doing Lectio Divina and I've picked a

35:51

sentence at random for us and here we go. He

35:55

scooped up Dobby who was still

35:57

attempting to do himself serious in

36:00

and ran with the elf in his

36:02

arms to join the back of the

36:04

queue. Ah, sigh.

36:09

So Matt, step one of Lectio Divinas, what is

36:11

literally happening in the sentence? So

36:13

what is literally happening is Dobby has

36:16

come to warn Dumbledore's

36:18

Army that Umbridge is

36:20

on to them, that

36:22

she has been given inside information and is

36:24

on her way to the Room of Requirement

36:27

to catch them all in the

36:29

act of violating whichever educational decree

36:31

they are violating. And, you

36:34

know, although a free elf, Dobby

36:37

is still suffering under the legacy of

36:39

his enslavement. So it's hard for him

36:41

to say Umbridge's name, it's hard for

36:44

him to tell Harry the truth. And

36:47

so he's been like revealing, half-revealing pieces of

36:49

information and then running into a wall or

36:51

hurting himself. And now that

36:53

they've figured out what's going on, Harry's trying to protect

36:55

him from himself and also just kind of

36:57

get out of there with him to protect him from Umbridge. Yeah,

37:01

but like he joins

37:03

the back of the queue, right?

37:06

Like you can imagine, like Harry's a teacher. Yeah. And

37:09

he's the one Umbridge wants most. So

37:11

he could be like, guys, let me out of here. Yeah. And

37:14

he also carries Dobby. I

37:17

just, I have really find the sentence very sweet.

37:22

You know, we were just talking about this, but he's sort

37:24

of in emergency mode, right? Like he just grabs Dobby,

37:27

like all of these instincts are coming out in Harry

37:29

and it's to grab Dobby and go to the back

37:31

of the line. And I just,

37:33

you really see a lot of beautiful things come out in Harry here.

37:37

Step two is what other stories does this remind

37:39

you of? He scooped up Dobby,

37:41

who was still attempting to do himself serious

37:43

injury and ran with the elf in his

37:45

arms to join the back of the queue.

37:49

Matt, I just read the book Bell

37:51

Conto for the first time that and patch

37:53

it book and it

37:57

is about a party that

37:59

gets held. hostage by

38:02

a group of militants. And

38:04

the hostage situation lasts

38:07

for about two months. And

38:09

it's a novel about many things, but

38:11

one of the things that this novel

38:13

I think is about is that alliances

38:15

are complicated and you can be emotionally

38:17

allied with someone, and that doesn't mean

38:19

that the power imbalance between the two

38:22

of you has changed, right? You can

38:24

care about someone with less power than

38:26

you, but you still have more power

38:28

than they do. And

38:31

that, you

38:33

know, human connection can do a lot, but

38:36

it can't do everything. Like

38:39

it can't end systemic violence.

38:42

And I just, yeah,

38:44

this sentence really reminds me of that, that what

38:47

Harry does with Dobby matters. The fact that he

38:49

loves Dobby matters. The fact that he freed Dobby

38:51

matters. The fact that he picks him up here

38:54

matters. But like also

38:56

Dobby's trauma is like deeply ingrained in

38:58

the house off system is still reigning

39:00

and they can have this

39:02

beautiful relationship, but no matter how beautiful

39:04

their relationship is, these

39:07

wrongs can't be righted.

39:11

What about you? Vanessa, the thing that I keep

39:13

thinking of is The Wizard of Oz, which is actually not

39:15

a movie I know very well or remember

39:18

very well, but at the beginning

39:20

of that movie, Dorothy and her little dog Toto

39:22

are swept away by a tornado

39:24

to the land of Oz. And the reason why

39:27

they're swept away by a

39:29

tornado to the land of Oz is because while the rest of the

39:31

family is able to get into the cellar and

39:33

be protected, Dorothy can't

39:35

find Toto. So she's running around looking for Toto

39:37

and trying to scoop up Toto so

39:40

that Toto can be full. And so like

39:42

the scooping up thing was the thing that really stuck to

39:44

me. And just like the image of

39:46

a vulnerable creature who you feel responsible for

39:48

and like deciding for yourself that

39:51

you are not gonna be safe until that creature is

39:53

safe. It just reminded me of what's going on with

39:55

Harry and Dobby here. So Matt,

39:57

the question now of course is what does this remind you of

39:59

in your... own life, he

40:01

scooped up Dobby who was still

40:04

attempting to do himself serious injury

40:06

and ran with the elf in

40:08

his arms to join the

40:10

back of the queue. It

40:13

reminds me of when fire alarms used to

40:15

go off when I lived in the dorms.

40:18

I had a dog while I lived in the dorms and

40:20

as I'm sure many people will remember

40:22

from their dorm time, dorms are a

40:24

place where fire alarms go off a

40:26

lot. And

40:29

I just permanently kept my

40:31

front door unlocked because I

40:33

was worried that I

40:35

would not be home and a fire alarm would

40:37

go off and that the alarm would drive my

40:39

dog Rory up the wall. And I would tell

40:41

my students that at the beginning of the year,

40:44

like, hey, my door is always unlocked.

40:46

If the fire alarm ever goes off, can

40:49

you please make sure that Rory

40:51

exits with you? And I

40:53

obviously don't know if this worked every time, but

40:55

I would often come home to a note being

40:57

like, there was a fire

40:59

alarm, we grabbed Rory, she peed while we

41:01

were outside, got her back.

41:04

And it just made me feel like really

41:06

grateful to live in community that

41:08

I just knew that anyone

41:10

would sort of scoop her up for me.

41:13

What about you? What does this remind you of? It's

41:15

actually a related thought. The house we lived in

41:17

before we moved up to this university house had

41:20

faulty, like, fire alarm

41:23

smoke detector system, which would go off all the time.

41:26

And that was kind of irritating. We were in a rental.

41:28

It was kind of irritating. But what it did do is

41:30

it actually led us to have conversations with our

41:32

kids about like what happens if there's a fire conversations

41:34

we probably should have been having otherwise. Right?

41:37

About like, how do you get out of the house? What happens if the way

41:40

you think you're gonna get out of the house is not a way you can

41:42

get out of the house? And the sticking

41:44

point for the kids was always like, who's getting Suki?

41:47

Yeah, right. It's always like, who's responsible for making

41:49

sure she gets out? And we had to be

41:51

really clear with them. It's not you. Yeah,

41:54

it is never you like your responsibility to get

41:56

yourself out of the house and other

41:58

people are going to worry about getting your siblings and and getting

42:00

Suki out of the house. But just like

42:02

that their instincts are the same place, like, oh, there's

42:04

somebody more vulnerable than me in the house. And

42:07

I wanna make sure that that vulnerable

42:09

person or that vulnerable creature is also

42:12

paid attention to. Because we didn't have

42:14

a firm answer, cause you don't know

42:16

what's happening. You don't know in a fire or whatever, they

42:18

might be saying, they wanna know, okay, then who is it

42:20

gonna be if it's not me? And

42:23

it's not a satisfying answer to be like, I don't know, maybe

42:25

a firefighter, maybe one of

42:27

us, you don't

42:29

worry. And they're like, no. But not you.

42:32

But not you. And they're like, but I'm worried because you

42:34

haven't told me who it is. It might need to be

42:36

me. It's just that instinct

42:38

to protect the vulnerable is there. Yeah. Yeah,

42:40

that's, it reminded me of that. So step format,

42:42

what does this make you feel called to? And I'll

42:44

read the sentence. He scooped up

42:47

Dobby who was still attempting to

42:49

do himself serious injury and

42:51

ran with the elf in his arms

42:53

to join the back of the queue.

42:56

Can I tell you the sermon I would not preach? Put

42:59

a little twist on it. Yes. Please.

43:02

I mean, on the one hand, the most obvious

43:04

sermon to preach about this would be like, remembering

43:06

the vulnerable, remembering to attend to their

43:09

vulnerabilities and that kind of thing. And

43:11

I think I would not preach that sermon, or at

43:13

least not like that, because it, vulnerable

43:16

people are not puppies that need

43:18

rescue, right? Like

43:20

that analogy is- Puppies are puppies. That's

43:22

right. There's a level,

43:26

it's kind of patronizing to frame it

43:28

that way, right? Super

43:30

patronizing. Yeah. And so I think

43:32

my initial instincts will start there and be like, oh, that's a

43:34

bad sermon. And I hope the sermon I would end up at

43:36

would be something more like, get in the back of the line.

43:39

Yeah, I know. I was thinking about that too. Right,

43:41

instead of like, let me scoop up and be the hero of people

43:45

who need my rescue. Instead of be like, oh, we're all trying

43:47

to get out and I have whatever

43:49

kinds of privileges I have, let me get in the back

43:51

of the line and make sure everyone is safe. When

43:53

is it actually my job to be in the back?

43:56

It's something I think about a lot because on pilgrimages,

43:58

I like bring up the- on

44:00

hikes and this past summer that

44:02

backfired because we had some slower

44:05

walkers and I lost sight of

44:07

the leader and so

44:09

we got separated and so you

44:12

know it sounds simple and I've always loved

44:14

that about pilgrimages that like my role is

44:16

simple I bring up the rear and then

44:19

I'm like oh bringing up the rear is

44:21

actually complicated like you need to

44:23

be in really good communication with the front of

44:26

the line and you know as a the last

44:28

name I spent a lot of my childhood in

44:30

the back of the line I think about the back of

44:32

the line a lot and so yeah I

44:35

just went like even the back of the line

44:37

comes with responsibilities it's not like look I'm in

44:39

the back of the line I've done my part

44:42

like even in line you want

44:44

to be a thinking person right I think

44:46

often you're like now I'm in line I

44:48

can abdicate some control but you always still

44:51

want to be thinking yeah it's

44:53

interesting that when I was in the Navy the Marine Corps gunnery

44:55

sergeants were the ones who would make us run around and train

44:57

us and stuff and then one thing they would

44:59

say over and over again is lead from the front lead from the

45:01

front because they're talking about

45:03

like going into dangerous situations so

45:05

you leave from the front right right but I was

45:08

thinking about it this past summer when we were in

45:10

Japan so crowded in

45:12

Tokyo just like the number of people in a

45:14

crowded train station and I always wanted to be

45:16

in back so I could see everybody right

45:19

on me right and Clint was like you're the

45:21

tallest you need to be in front so we

45:23

can see you yeah and

45:25

you're also taller than all these other people so

45:27

don't be in front so we can follow you

45:29

right and like it was like oh I see

45:32

like maybe what I need to do is like

45:34

trust that somebody else will be in the back

45:36

keeping track of us because what I bring to

45:38

the situation is just visibility height

45:40

right yeah yeah

45:43

it's you got to think about it there can't

45:45

be a rule on the line yeah that's right

45:47

Vanessa thanks for leading like to Divina was a good one

45:49

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That's aura.com/safety to learn more and

46:22

activate the 14-day trial period. Hi

46:25

everybody, it is with great excitement

46:28

that I am telling you about

46:30

one of our new group chaplaincy

46:32

options called Showing Up for Queer

46:34

Kids. If you have a

46:36

queer kid in your life who you

46:38

want to think through how to be

46:41

the most loving and supportive adult that

46:43

you can be, then you can be

46:45

a part of this amazing group chaplaincy

46:48

experience with Taylor Bueller. You can find

46:50

out more about this program, which is

46:52

going to be on Fridays from 1

46:55

to 2.30 Eastern starting March 8th by

46:57

going to notsorryworks.com. This

47:07

week's voicemail is from Sophie. Hi,

47:11

this is Sophie calling in from Canada

47:13

and I wanted to hear your thoughts

47:16

on symbiosis and

47:18

I say that because recently at work we

47:20

were brainstorming theme ideas for an upcoming event

47:22

and symbiosis came up. I

47:24

was curious about the etymology and I

47:26

was reflecting on how sim means

47:29

togetherness and bios is refers to

47:32

life or living and usually

47:34

we think of this in the context of science where

47:36

you've got different species sharing the

47:38

same ecosystem and resources. There's four kinds.

47:40

We usually hear about mutualism, commensalism,

47:42

parasitism and competition. I was trying

47:44

to think of examples from the

47:47

different books. For mutualism where everyone involved

47:49

benefits, I thought of the trio and

47:51

their wider friend group. I also thought

47:53

of Harry and Hedwig. There

47:56

were lots of options there. For commensalism where

47:58

one benefits and one is unaffected.

48:00

I sort of thought of Crookshanks as serious because

48:02

Crookshanks is really just being a cat and

48:05

serious benefits quite greatly from the relationship

48:07

with Crookshanks and access to Peter. I

48:09

also thought of the boys copying Hermione's

48:12

homework, which kind of seems

48:14

like parasitism, but in reality it doesn't really do

48:17

anything to Hermione, but the boys benefit

48:19

greatly. For parasitism, I

48:21

thought of the Horcrux that Harry

48:24

is carrying around. I also

48:26

thought of Umbridge and Rita Skeeter because both of them

48:28

sort of gain power

48:30

and status while also doing harm

48:32

to others in their community. And

48:35

for competition, I thought of everyone trying to

48:37

get dates for the Yule Ball. I thought

48:39

of the Quidditch matches. I thought of the

48:42

sort of dynamic with Gryffindor and Slytherin. And

48:45

I'm curious if this might be an

48:47

interesting lens for Vanessa and Matt to

48:49

reflect on the different books and

48:51

to try to think about the different sorts of

48:53

relationships if we're viewing Hogwarts as

48:56

an ecosystem. What's

48:58

an example of commensalism, parasitism,

49:00

competition, mutualism, and what

49:03

your thoughts on all that are? Thank you.

49:05

Bye. Sophie, what

49:07

a great voice memo. In

49:10

my daughter's science, she was recently

49:12

studying symbiosis. And as soon

49:14

as she said symbiosis, I was like, mutualism, commensalism,

49:16

parasitism, because I don't remember learning that when I

49:18

was a kid and Cammie taught it to me.

49:21

And it was like, oh, I didn't know what

49:23

commensalism was. Like I kind of figured out what

49:25

mutualism and parasitism was. Commensalism was

49:27

not one that I was familiar with.

49:29

And you've done a great job talking about how

49:31

some of these things might apply to the world

49:34

of Harry Potter. You know, we're going to add symbiosis

49:36

to the hopper for one of

49:38

our potential episode themes. So keep your

49:40

ears open. We're going to talk about

49:43

symbiosis some week coming up. Yeah,

49:45

thank you so much, Sophie. I'm now

49:47

looking at a diagram of

49:50

these different kinds of symbiosis. who

50:00

have been loved and lost. John

50:04

Charles Ziegler, who was 82, a beloved

50:07

pepa with a jokester glint

50:09

in his eye. Susan

50:14

Anderson, who was 67, a mother,

50:17

grandmother, community builder, and

50:19

relationship nurturer. In

50:24

Molly LeCaptain, who was 36, a

50:27

singer, actor, crocheter, and

50:29

storyteller. May

50:33

their memories be a blessing. Matt,

50:42

we now get to offer blessings for

50:44

characters in the chapter. Who would you

50:46

like to bless? I'm gonna bless Hagrid for

50:48

all the reasons I described earlier. Hagrid knows

50:51

the stakes and knows the risks and

50:53

is willing to risk certain things for

50:55

others and just that kind of

50:57

confidence and self-knowledge and also just sort of there's

51:00

no self-pity in the decision either for Hagrid. He's just

51:02

like, oh this is what I have and even if

51:04

I may not like it it's what's before me and

51:07

I know what I ought to do. That's a tough

51:09

situation to be in and it takes some courage and

51:11

Hagrid's got plenty of that. So blessings

51:13

to Hagrid. Vanessa, who are

51:15

you blessing? I'm gonna bless Trelawney. This is

51:17

sort of the week after

51:20

the bad thing has happened to her. She's

51:22

been fired from her job. She's sort

51:25

of ostracized and we find out from

51:27

Lavender in poverty that she's still really

51:29

upset and that she is thinking about

51:31

leaving and I feel like often we

51:33

will feel bad for

51:36

someone or care about someone's misfortune for

51:38

too short of a period of time

51:40

and so I just

51:43

wanted to practice this thing of

51:45

caring about her even when she's

51:48

off the page. Sort

51:50

of a chapter after she's had this horrible thing

51:52

happen to her. Next week

51:54

we're gonna be reading book 5 chapter 28 Snape's

51:56

worst memory through the

51:59

theme of kindness. with Casper Tocqueville.

52:03

Matt, before we give our thanks, we

52:05

want to tell people that we are

52:07

in the middle of a big fundraiser

52:10

for On The Rise,

52:12

an amazing organization in Cambridge,

52:14

Massachusetts that provides programming

52:17

for homeless women, trans, and non-binary folks.

52:19

If you want to learn more about

52:21

our fundraiser, you can go to notsoryworks.com,

52:23

and that is where you can also

52:25

learn about all of our classes and

52:27

pilgrimages that we have going on right

52:29

now. This was a not-sory production.

52:31

We are a feminist production company. Our

52:33

executive producers are me, Vanessa Zoltan, and

52:36

Caitlin Hofmeister. We are edited and produced

52:38

by AJ Yeramas, and our music is

52:40

by Ivan Paizawa-Nickvall. We are

52:43

distributed by eight tasks. A big thanks

52:45

to Sophie for teaching us the symbiosis

52:47

this week in her great voicemail. And

52:49

thanks, of course, to Ariana Nadalmanjouia, Argye-Margaret

52:52

E. Tualcet, Nicky Zoltan, Hannah Rehak, Casper

52:54

Tocqueville, Courtney Brown, Natalie Polker, Stephanie Falcel,

52:56

and everyone who sent in the names

52:59

of their loved ones. Parvati

53:12

was curling her eyelashes around

53:14

her wand. How long are

53:16

her eyelashes? How

53:18

narrow is this wand? Okay.

53:25

Thank you.