0:00

the body can heal itself , and some

0:02

of the answers that we have

0:05

when it comes to emotions can be accessed

0:07

through the subconscious , and that's

0:10

one way that oil , one

0:12

way that prayer and meditation also

0:14

has it . Is it accessing part

0:17

of our subconscious ?

0:29

Welcome to Heart to Heart with Anna . I am

0:31

Anna Jaworski and the mother of a daughter

0:33

with a critical congenital heart defect

0:35

. She has had three open heart surgeries

0:38

and is my inspiration . Today's

0:40

show is about functional medicine information

0:43

and our guests are Ryan Hunter and Valerie

0:45

Chavez MD . Valerie

0:47

Chavez is a board certified internal

0:50

medicine physician and functional

0:52

medicine practitioner and the founder

0:54

of VETMEND . She started

0:56

her company after she learned to alleviate her

0:58

own debilitating gastrointestinal

1:01

symptoms . At her lowest point she

1:03

was walking into walls and had to leave work

1:05

. The stress that she was too sick to

1:07

help her patients . Valerie started on a journey

1:10

for heart cancers . She discovered the

1:12

concept of functional medicine , which

1:14

allowed her to get to the great causes of

1:16

her illness and eliminate them . Ryan

1:19

Hunter has a background in psychology and

1:21

his Valerie's husband . He was inspired

1:24

by his wife's journey and began to invest

1:26

in his own health . Starting with cooking

1:28

, he began to learn about healthy substitutions

1:30

in food , which progressed to

1:32

other lifestyle changes , including stress

1:35

reduction . Ryan also

1:37

had some health issues of his own

1:39

which had not been helped by conventional

1:41

medicine . He found that he's separate

1:43

from non-ciliac gluten sensitivity

1:46

and avoiding gluten allowed him

1:48

to become free from allergy medications

1:50

. How awesome is that

1:52

. That's great . So today , Ryan

1:55

and Valerie will be talking to us about functional

1:57

medicine and how it can help people

1:59

living with congenital heart disease . My

2:01

loyal listeners will remember Ryan and Valerie

2:03

from when they were on the program entitled

2:06

functional medicine 101 . Welcome

2:08

back to Heart to Heart with Anna Ryan

2:10

.

2:11

Great to be back .

2:12

Welcome back to Heart to Heart with Anna Valerie

2:14

.

2:15

Thank you , anna , great to be here .

2:17

I'm so happy to talk to the

2:20

two of you because I'm curious to

2:22

learn more about what we can do to

2:24

feel better all the time . So

2:26

maybe not everyone had a chance

2:28

to listen to that first episode , but , friends

2:31

, you can go to Spotify , apple

2:33

Podcast or whatever platform

2:35

you use to listen to the episodes

2:38

, to pick it up at any time , and I'll put a link

2:40

in the show notes . But let's go ahead

2:42

and just start Valerie by telling

2:44

us exactly what functional medicine

2:46

is and how it differs from traditional

2:49

western medicine .

2:51

Absolutely . Just to give you an

2:53

idea of my background

2:55

, I am an internal medicine physician

2:58

, meaning I've went to four years of medical

3:00

school as well as three years of

3:02

internal medicine residency

3:04

, and so that is the typical

3:06

western medicine that everybody knows

3:09

. When you go to medical school , go

3:11

to a residency and you

3:13

practice as a medical doctor or

3:15

a doctor of osteopathic medicine

3:18

and , in general , we

3:20

focus a lot on pharmaceuticals

3:22

and surgery in

3:24

western medicine . What's different

3:27

about functional medicine is just

3:29

really throwing

3:31

in the lifestyle aspects and getting

3:34

to the originating

3:36

cause of what the problem

3:38

is . It means that

3:40

we need to look at people

3:42

more as an individual

3:45

who is unique , who

3:47

may have different issues

3:50

, and treating them differently

3:52

, treating them with their own set

3:55

of unique issues

3:57

, as opposed to maybe just

3:59

putting a band-aid approach on

4:01

patients with the exact same condition

4:04

. What I found is that not

4:07

everything works for everybody , just

4:09

like diets , for instance . You have

4:11

so many different diets . Some people

4:14

do well on plant-based , other people do

4:16

well in carnivore , other people

4:18

do well on ketogenic . You can't

4:20

really do a one-size-fits-all

4:22

when you think about functional

4:25

medicine , because if you're

4:27

going to treat the originating causes and

4:29

exacerbating factors , then

4:32

those characteristics need to

4:34

be handled carefully

4:36

and a lot of times differently

4:39

than other people . Basically it's

4:41

just a personalized care

4:43

approach where we

4:45

get to get to originating causes

4:47

and exacerbating factors and we focus

4:49

a lot on lifestyle aspects .

4:53

I find this is really helpful , especially

4:55

for our members of the congelator

4:57

heart defect community , because

4:59

their originating baseline

5:02

is going to be so different

5:04

than most individuals , wouldn't you think , valerie

5:07

?

5:08

Anytime somebody has gone

5:10

through something

5:12

stressful whether it's emotionally

5:15

stressful or physically stressful

5:17

then the body can

5:19

be unsettled in certain

5:21

ways , and anytime

5:23

the body is unsettled that means that it

5:25

has less time to repair itself

5:28

or at least less energy because it

5:30

is focusing on surviving . I

5:34

would say a lot of

5:36

folks listening to this podcast

5:38

may consider just thinking

5:40

of some techniques that might help them

5:43

settle their body , their mind , their

5:45

emotional side a little

5:47

bit more , and I know we're going to talk about

5:49

some of these tactics .

5:52

Absolutely , and I think what you said

5:54

is really important because

5:56

our children , especially

5:58

the ones who were born with critical congenital

6:01

heart defects requiring surgery that

6:03

first year of life , their

6:05

bodies have been stressed in ways

6:08

that babies whose hearts

6:10

are healthy do not have

6:12

to be stressed . And I think

6:14

that stresses the parents tremendously

6:17

as well , speaking as the parent

6:19

of a child who in the first year of life

6:21

had to have two open heart

6:24

surgeries and I

6:26

never really thought about what

6:28

kind of stress that did emotionally

6:31

to my baby because

6:33

, like you said , it

6:35

was all about survival and

6:38

I guess we kind of thought

6:40

I don't think we were thinking

6:42

it was just a matter of survival

6:44

and anything that came later we

6:47

would deal with it as it came up

6:49

. But mental health is so

6:51

very important , so let's

6:53

talk about what functional medicine

6:55

can do to help us improve

6:58

and maintain good

7:00

mental health . Absolutely

7:03

.

7:03

Anna , in general , I

7:05

think it's important to keep the idea

7:08

that the body can heal itself

7:10

in mind . Basically

7:12

, it's meant to take care of infections

7:15

, get rid of toxins

7:17

, overall , heal itself

7:19

on a regular basis . And the question

7:21

is why isn't it ? Well , if

7:23

somebody is unsettled or in survival

7:26

mode , it doesn't heal

7:28

as well . And that's

7:30

where some of these healthy stress

7:33

relievers can really come into play

7:35

. And I say this in thinking

7:37

about mental health because

7:39

obviously in most people

7:42

have a lot of stress

7:44

right now . Emotional stress can really

7:46

play a number on

7:48

the body and can prevent

7:50

you from healing yourself . But

7:52

there's some simple things to do

7:54

in order to settle

7:56

the body a little bit more . Things

7:59

like praying , meditating

8:02

, singing I love singing

8:04

in the shower . I think it's a great opportunity

8:07

to start the day . In

8:09

addition to anything

8:12

that you enjoy , maybe puts you in

8:14

a creative mode , like

8:16

playing a musical instrument or

8:18

painting or something

8:20

you just get lost in . There

8:22

are times when I know people will work

8:24

on projects and get lost in

8:26

the projects and just enjoy it

8:28

and don't think about their problems

8:31

and relax a lot more .

8:32

I'm like that with puzzles . Yeah

8:36

puzzle , I can be lost in it

8:38

for hours , isn't ?

8:40

it . That's actually a

8:42

great option

8:44

as well , kind of like crocheting . My

8:47

mom crochets and she gets lost

8:49

in it and enjoys it very much

8:51

. She loves to work

8:53

on things and she's always said

8:55

, well , if I accept money then it wouldn't

8:57

be as fun for me . So anything

9:00

you can do to just really enjoy

9:02

yourself , get lost in it and

9:04

not have to think about the other

9:07

issues . Plus , the

9:09

other part of really helping

9:11

your mental health is just trying

9:13

to recognize those triggers , triggers

9:16

that make you feel stressed , that

9:18

unsettled you , whether it has

9:20

to do with a certain person or

9:23

listening to the news

9:25

or being on social media

9:28

, certain social media avenues

9:31

, whatever triggers

9:33

you . You may want to think about

9:35

how maybe you can have

9:38

that trigger you less , if you need to decrease

9:40

the time that you spend

9:43

with that activity

9:45

or if you need to modify

9:47

it in some other way .

9:48

Okay , so let's talk about that because

9:51

it's funny . Some of the things that

9:53

you mentioned I found when I was in the ICU

9:55

with my baby . I sang

9:58

to him every day . I feel sorry

10:00

for all the other babies in the base nearby

10:02

because they had to listen to me singing to

10:04

a baby as well , but

10:07

it was something I did every day

10:09

when we were home and I

10:11

was trying to normalize

10:13

a very abnormal situation

10:16

and it was being in the ICU . I

10:19

also had my Bible with me and I

10:21

prayed every day because

10:23

I was worried about my child's

10:26

survival . Being in the ICU

10:28

is a very stressful situation

10:31

and so many members of our community

10:33

are in the hospital with their

10:35

kids . What can they do

10:37

to help , I

10:39

say , normalize ? It's not normal to

10:41

be in the ICU , but it is our baby's

10:44

normal , or sometimes

10:46

days , weeks or even months

10:49

. Valerie , what can we do to maintain

10:51

a good sense of mental health when we're

10:53

in the ICU with our babies ?

10:56

One important thing is to do these things

10:58

with a lack of judgment . You

11:00

mentioned singing . It's okay

11:02

to sing . We're not auditioning for

11:04

any show .

11:06

Thank goodness .

11:10

At least most people aren't . It's

11:12

okay to just enjoy it , because

11:14

the intention is there , the intention to

11:16

soothe . When thinking

11:18

about different things that you can do in a hospital

11:21

, think about the intention . The intention

11:23

is going to be to comfort somebody

11:26

, to maybe comfort your

11:28

loved one and yourself . What

11:30

would really do that ? What I

11:32

think would really comfort somebody

11:35

is the basic human

11:38

aspects that we need to create , say

11:40

, human touch . Just holding

11:43

somebody's hand or massaging

11:45

their hand or their feet , that

11:48

is something that is so important

11:50

. We don't talk enough about

11:52

it , but the human touch is so essential

11:55

and it's so comforting to life

11:57

. When

12:00

we're born , we get put on

12:02

our mother's chest because that

12:04

touch yes , we are also listening

12:07

to the heartbeat , but the

12:09

touch to know that we're a part

12:11

of something besides ourselves Holding

12:13

onto somebody's hand if

12:15

that's all you do is so valuable

12:18

. The singing , I think , is great

12:20

. The praying , I think , is great , but I really

12:23

think that every individual

12:25

has to decide what is best

12:27

for them and their family .

12:29

I agree . I remember when

12:31

my baby was in the hospital for that

12:33

first surgery , there used to be a nurse

12:35

at a station in the center of the

12:37

pediatric intensive care unit and

12:40

all around were these

12:42

open bays that were only separated

12:44

by a curtain so you could see

12:46

all the babies in the round . The

12:49

little baby that was next to my baby

12:51

had two teenage

12:54

parents and the parents

12:56

would come in and they would cry over their baby

12:58

and then they would leave . They were only there for

13:00

about five or ten minutes a day

13:02

, and so one time I went up

13:04

to the mother and I was talking

13:07

to her and I told her exactly

13:09

what she said . I said you can touch

13:11

your baby . I said you can rub your baby's

13:13

head , you can sing or talk

13:15

to your baby . And she

13:17

said to me I don't even feel like a mother . My

13:20

baby was born . They knew something

13:23

was wrong . Right away they snatched

13:25

her away from me . I never got to

13:27

hold her , I didn't get

13:29

to put her on my chest , like what you were saying

13:31

, valerie . She said I've never

13:33

, ever held my baby , and

13:36

then she left . So I told the

13:38

nurses you have

13:41

to let this woman hold her baby

13:43

. She doesn't even feel like a mother . But

13:45

the baby had lots of tubes and

13:48

things connected to her

13:50

and I said , even if you

13:52

just let her slide her arms

13:54

underneath the baby just

13:56

to feel the baby in her arms

13:59

and I don't know if they ever

14:01

did or not , but I agree

14:03

with you , I feel that human

14:06

touch is so important . I was always

14:08

rubbing my baby's head

14:11

and they have all these IVs

14:13

and tubes and little warming devices

14:16

and all kinds of things on

14:18

them . It's sometimes scary to know

14:20

where you can touch the baby .

14:23

And in those instances sometimes we

14:25

have to rely on the words , even

14:27

though we know maybe

14:30

the baby doesn't understand . It's

14:32

great to let them know

14:34

that you love them , that they're

14:36

doing great , keep

14:38

doing the best that they can to just

14:41

cheer them on . It's

14:43

okay to have emotions . I think

14:45

there can be

14:47

some tears and there's

14:49

nothing wrong with that . I think it's okay

14:51

to show emotions but also

14:54

maybe explain hey , I

14:56

know we can't be together right now

14:59

, but I look forward to being

15:01

with you and holding you and hugging

15:03

you when you

15:05

get better .

15:07

Yeah , I think that's so important

15:09

. A lot of times our babies don't

15:12

have surgeries only

15:14

as infants . A lot of times our children

15:17

need surgery again

15:19

when they're two or three or four , Once

15:21

they're a little bit older . What kind of activities

15:24

can we do in the hospital with those children

15:27

, Valerie , to help their mental

15:29

health be stronger

15:31

?

15:33

I think being near them

15:35

whenever you can is

15:37

really the most important thing

15:39

, just because when you're young

15:42

and you're not self-sufficient

15:45

yet or fully self-sufficient , it

15:47

can be concerning and

15:49

even scary to

15:52

be in a strange place with strange

15:54

people that you don't know . Having

15:56

things put in you is

15:59

unsettling .

16:01

It is absolutely . I've

16:03

heard people tell me they

16:06

felt violated .

16:08

Yes , I think that's

16:10

when just the presence of

16:12

somebody that you love

16:15

as a child , that presence

16:17

of somebody you love and trust , having

16:19

them there , is going to help

16:21

them get through this . And

16:23

answering tough questions in

16:26

an understanding that if you

16:28

need to modify the technical

16:31

language , I think that's okay

16:33

and just reassuring

16:35

that you're there . And

16:38

it's okay if we don't know what's going to happen

16:40

. It's okay if we don't know the outcome

16:42

, but given some words

16:44

of encouragement , having some touch

16:47

, maybe praying , singing , whatever

16:49

calls to you , but even

16:51

if it's just the presence , I think that is

16:54

huge .

16:55

One of the things that I did was I

16:57

brought the quilt

16:59

that my mother had made my baby

17:02

that we used every day . I

17:04

brought that because I felt that the hospital

17:07

sheets and blankets felt

17:10

alien and I wanted to bring some color

17:12

and some hominess

17:15

to this alien

17:17

environment . What do you think

17:19

about that ? I know that there's always some concern

17:22

that we're bringing germs from home , and

17:24

that's critically important when

17:26

we're talking about a child having open heart

17:28

surgery . But what do you think about

17:30

us potentially bringing some things

17:33

from home stepped animals or

17:36

blankets , that kind

17:38

of thing ?

17:39

I think it's a great idea . I

17:41

would ask the medical team

17:43

first , just because you don't want to introduce

17:46

it only to have it yanked away , right

17:48

.

17:49

Yeah , that would be traumatic .

17:50

Yes . But , please talk

17:53

with the medical team and

17:55

ask about that . Maybe

17:57

if it's a baby blanket or

17:59

some kind of stuffed animal or

18:02

a toy , I do think that that's

18:04

helpful , Something that they can

18:06

recognize and hold on to and

18:08

maybe even Hold on to

18:11

in times when they don't have

18:13

a family member

18:15

presence .

18:16

That can still be comforting . Yeah

18:18

yeah , this content is

18:20

not intended to be a substitute for

18:22

professional medical advice , diagnosis

18:25

or treatment . The opinions expressed

18:27

in the podcast are not those of

18:29

Hearts Unite the Globe , but of the hosts

18:31

and guests , and are intended to spark

18:33

discussion about issues pertaining to congenital

18:36

heart disease or bereavement .

18:38

Anna Jaworski has written several books to

18:40

empower the congenital heart defect

18:42

, or CHD , community . These

18:45

books can be found at Amazoncom or

18:47

at her website , wwwbabyheartspresscom

18:51

. Her best seller is the Heart

18:53

of a Mother , an anthology of stories

18:55

written by women for women in the CHD

18:58

community , and as other books , my

19:00

Brother Needs an Operation , the Heart of

19:02

a Father and Hypoplastic Left Heart

19:04

Syndrome . A handbook for parents will

19:06

help you understand that you are not

19:08

alone . Visit babyheartspresscom

19:11

to find out more .

19:18

You are listening to Heart to Heart with Anna . If

19:21

you have a question or comment that you would like to

19:23

address on our show , please send an email

19:25

to Anna Jaworski at Anna at

19:27

hearttoheartwithannacom . That's

19:30

Anna at hearttoheartwithannacom . Now

19:33

back to Heart to Heart with Anna .

19:37

Ryan , you're a functional medicine

19:39

health coach . First of all , can

19:41

you tell us how essential oils and

19:43

aromatherapy can help us

19:46

improve or maintain

19:48

our own mental health ? And I'm even wondering

19:50

, since I was talking so much to

19:52

Valerie , about parents being in the

19:55

ICU . I'm sure this is

19:57

something we would have to clear with the medical

20:00

doctors and nurses first , but that

20:02

might be something simple that we

20:04

could introduce that might bring some

20:06

comfort . Can you tell us more

20:08

about that ?

20:10

Yes , wonderful . First , I'm enjoying

20:12

listening to your conversation and you

20:14

were asking about the mental health aspect

20:17

and the emotional aspect

20:19

of how oils can

20:21

support us , and that's one of the

20:23

greatest things about them , and

20:25

there have been studies done on the calming

20:28

effects . It's basically about

20:30

how our brain works and how quickly the

20:32

sense of snow can get to the brain

20:34

. That's where the oils can come in and

20:36

you can kind of work from the body upwards

20:39

. You can get your body relaxed by

20:41

smelling calming oils , like a chamomile

20:43

, for example , and then it crosses

20:45

the blood drain barrier . The molecules and essential

20:48

oil compounds are very small and

20:50

it affects your entire body in different systems

20:52

in a way where you tell your brain everything

20:54

is calm and relaxed . It

20:57

helps with that . So we're mentioning

21:00

puzzles , your enjoyment of that , and

21:02

Valerie was talking about getting lost in an

21:04

activity and losing time , because that's another

21:07

way to improve your emotions is to be

21:09

what is called flow and engagement activity

21:11

, and that can look like anything

21:14

for different people . It's not a one-sided fits all

21:16

, but by incorporating that , maybe

21:18

some good smell , a type of

21:21

flow activity , you're already putting yourself in

21:23

a place such as a

21:25

hospital's environment . That's not so

21:27

fun , but you're putting yourself

21:29

in a more of an insulated emotional state

21:31

in that environment by using

21:33

the ones .

21:35

It's funny what you said about smell , because

21:37

there are very distinct

21:40

smells when you're in a hospital

21:42

. Sure , valerie could attest

21:44

to that too , having been a

21:46

doctor and spent so much time in hospitals

21:49

and unfortunately there

21:51

are certain smells , certain cleaning

21:53

smells especially . That will take

21:56

me right back to being

21:58

in the hospital . I'm

22:00

wondering if we can't use smell

22:03

in a more calming way

22:05

, to not make it such a

22:07

stark and scary experience

22:10

.

22:11

Absolutely . You're touching on one of my favorite

22:13

areas , what

22:16

I would call using the oil to reprogram

22:18

the brain . From what I've learned

22:20

about how it will get to the brain and affect

22:23

us and our systems , I think that we

22:25

could also create new habits with

22:27

them and then later on , when

22:29

you're exposed to the tension

22:32

of this ICU unit , you might have a

22:34

passive diffuser in your pocket and

22:36

put an oil in your hand and smell

22:38

it just to help you . Kind of recenter

22:41

in the situation .

22:42

Right , take some deep breaths . Yeah

22:45

, exactly Now the fragrance that settles .

22:48

That's how I use them . Yeah , before I see a client

22:50

or have the clone store session

22:53

, I've been working with myself and

22:55

smelled some good oils that

22:57

help me relax or be centered and more

22:59

focused , and that's how I

23:01

would see them being used as

23:03

far as sporting , and especially in the cotton

23:05

environment .

23:07

So now I kind of feel bad because when

23:09

Jelly was a baby I used

23:11

to do massage on him

23:13

every night before bedtime . He would eat

23:15

his dinner and then I would give him a

23:18

bath and then we did baby massage

23:20

and we always had particular

23:23

fragrances that were associated

23:25

with . That was very , very calming . But

23:27

you know , he was on his tummy and

23:30

I would massage his back and I would

23:32

rub the lotion on his arms and his

23:34

legs and just talk very soothingly

23:36

when help is a baby . Since she had her

23:38

chest cut open , I

23:40

couldn't put her on her tummy and I didn't even

23:43

think to bring the

23:45

baby lotion to do a

23:47

massage every night , like I did

23:49

with Joey . And now that makes me feel bad

23:52

because that probably really would

23:54

have been welcome , Gosh

23:56

, I think about the catheters and

23:58

all of the tubes and wires that

24:01

came off of my baby

24:03

. If that would have even been something

24:05

possible .

24:06

Are you asking it possible that

24:08

you use the lotion on the baby with

24:10

the tubes ?

24:12

Well , the lotion , or even , like

24:14

we were saying , essential oils . Can

24:16

we do something like that when our

24:18

baby is in the

24:20

ICU ? I don't know . I mean , I guess

24:23

something we'd have to ask the doctor .

24:24

Yes , and I'm just going to defer back to what

24:26

Valerie said with the blanket

24:29

and talking to the staff . That would be first

24:31

and foremost , for sure , I do know there

24:33

are things like fractionated coconut

24:35

oil that dilute the oils

24:37

and there are roll-ons

24:40

that are already diluted and

24:42

that is a way to . Maybe

24:44

I would keep the bottom of the baby's feet

24:47

with some calming , like a

24:49

lavender , and just soothe them . So

24:52

that would be my idea

24:55

as bottom to the feet .

24:57

Yeah , that's true . Yeah , that's

24:59

not .

25:01

Yeah , and it's the roll-ons

25:03

are highly diluted and some of the oils

25:05

are sensitive , spicy and burn

25:07

a little to the touch , but most of the coming ones

25:09

don't . But you can still dilute

25:11

it with the coconut oil and roll it

25:13

on the bottom of the baby's foot and

25:16

I've seen colony babies being

25:18

calmed by that .

25:19

One of the big concerns for our population

25:22

is anything that will contraindicate

25:25

healing in the heart or

25:28

the pulmonary system , because our

25:30

children's pulmonary systems have been violated

25:33

. Being put on the heart lung machine

25:36

is really taxing

25:38

to the human body . So are

25:40

there any oils or anything

25:42

that we should stay away from

25:44

that might compromise the health of

25:46

the pulmonary or heart systems

25:50

?

25:51

There are two types of

25:54

heart-related oils that

25:56

I would call basal dilators and basal

25:58

constrictors , meaning

26:00

some of them can open the blood vessels up

26:02

more , like rosemary and thyme

26:04

or some that would tend

26:06

to be basal constrictors and

26:09

tightening up the blood vessels

26:11

, and that is more of your mints and furs . So

26:13

you would want to know a little bit about

26:16

that before you're going to try

26:18

to address an infant with

26:20

the sygna oils .

26:22

Right , wow , and

26:24

you said mint , and that's definitely my go-to

26:26

fragrance .

26:28

Nice . Yeah , that's very uplifting . I didn't know that the insperbations

26:30

had constrictors . That's the nice

26:32

thing about the plant constituent is they have so many

26:34

different kinds of effects . Mints

26:37

tend to be uplifting and energizing as

26:40

well . So yeah , that's just

26:42

sort of an area I would look towards . When

26:45

it is the oils , frost to blood

26:47

brain barrier , they wear absorbent mineral skin

26:49

and so it gets into our bloodstream

26:51

. I would want to go into it , knowing

26:53

, especially with the genital heart

26:55

issues . You see

26:57

, the basal constrictors , maybe the

27:00

vagal dilator and the relaxants

27:02

, those kind of things . Some oils

27:04

like Roe Chamomile have a very nice sedative

27:06

kind of quality and

27:08

, like I mentioned , mint can be energizing , you

27:10

know , with the maybe you know .

27:12

That's why we drink chamomile tea before

27:14

we go to bed .

27:15

Absolutely . Why yes ? Roe

27:19

and chamomile is very powerful sedative in my

27:21

opinion , and it's a great example for

27:23

how the knowns go straight to the brain For

27:27

me , how you don't even have to like them

27:29

when something smells . I personally am not

27:31

a fan of the long chamomile , but I like

27:33

the way it works . I have this kind of controversial

27:36

relationship . That's very interesting .

27:41

It's funny how you associate certain things . I

27:43

drink a lot of chamomile tea when I'm

27:46

sick , it seems to be my go

27:48

to tea to calm

27:50

me , and I always put a lot

27:52

of local honey in my tea

27:54

and that usually helps as well

27:56

, or at least I think it does . Tell

27:59

me how it seems that sometimes

28:01

our body just knows what

28:03

oils or teas or

28:06

fragrances it needs

28:08

to get healthier or to

28:10

feel better .

28:12

I love this question because I believe you're

28:14

speaking about our subconscious

28:17

knowns . There's

28:19

applied kinesiology , which is also known

28:21

as muscle testy , but there are

28:23

different ways that I think our

28:25

subconscious can try to reach out

28:27

to our ego which is running the show and

28:30

say , hey , this is good for me , and

28:32

possibly the fact that our smell is

28:35

10 times stronger than even our

28:37

sense of taste due to survival

28:40

reason , it's a very powerful

28:42

way to access the limbic

28:44

system , where the emotions are housed , and the on and

28:46

on nervous system and the amygdala and the center

28:48

of the brain Quick way , direct

28:50

route to affect systems . So

28:53

smelling something , and maybe

28:55

smelling good to you , means

28:57

you might be finding some emotions

29:00

or connect . The

29:02

body can heal itself and some

29:04

of the answers that we have

29:07

when it comes to emotions can be accessed

29:09

through the subconscious and

29:11

that's one way that oil , one

29:14

way that prayer and meditation also

29:16

has it . Is it accessing part

29:18

of our subconscious that is

29:21

telling our entire system to

29:23

be affected in a different way ?

29:30

Heart to Heart with Anna is a presentation of Hearts

29:32

Unite the Globe and is part of the Hugg Podcast

29:35

Network . Hearts Unite the Globe

29:37

is a non-profit organization devoted to

29:39

providing resources to the congenital heart

29:41

defect community to uplift , empower

29:44

and enrich the lives of our community members

29:46

. If you would like access to free

29:48

resources pertaining to the CHD community

29:50

, please visit our website at

29:52

wwwcongenitalheartdefectscom

29:55

for information about CHD , the

29:58

hospitals that treat children with CHD , summer

30:00

camps for CHD survivors and much

30:02

, much more .

30:15

And Tonight Forever by the Baby Blue Sound

30:18

Collective . I think what I love so

30:20

much about this CD is that

30:22

some of the songs were inspired

30:24

by the patients .

30:26

Many listeners will understand many

30:28

of the different songs and what they've been inspired by

30:30

. Our new album will be available

30:33

on iTunes , Amazoncom

30:35

, Spotify .

30:36

I love the fact that the proceeds from

30:38

this CD are actually going to

30:40

help those with congenital heart defects

30:42

.

30:42

Enjoy the music .

30:44

Home Tonight Forever . So

30:46

now Valerie and Ryan are both in

30:49

the studio with me and I want to start

30:51

talking about heart

30:53

math , heart

30:59

math is a great tool

31:01

to help people settle

31:03

themselves down .

31:06

Sometimes we can feel anxious or just

31:08

unsettled within the body and heart

31:10

math is something that

31:12

we can actually use and get

31:14

data from in order to

31:16

understand where we're at and

31:19

how we need to improve

31:23

our feelings . Basically

31:25

, what happens is that you

31:28

are looking to have more heart coherence

31:30

. You connect a

31:33

little tool to either your

31:35

earlobe or your finger

31:37

and basically it tracks your heart

31:39

rate variability , which indicates

31:41

how your emotional states affect

31:44

your nervous system . You

31:46

will see a sine wave

31:49

and you will hear somebody talking

31:51

to you , telling you to

31:54

breathe in when the line goes up , breathe

31:56

out when the line goes down , to

31:58

think about breathing from your heart

32:00

and to imagine

32:03

a very comforting image . It's

32:05

a great way to really have the

32:07

line body and soul

32:10

sink in together , to

32:12

check in with yourself while

32:15

looking at data on

32:17

a page . They have them for cell

32:20

phones , they have them for computers

32:22

. I myself have one at work

32:24

and there are times when I

32:26

will use this with patience , but

32:29

it's a great way to understand

32:31

how we can

32:33

settle down our bodies

32:35

, maybe get it out of the

32:38

fight or flight stress

32:40

response , and it's great

32:42

for those people who love . Data say

32:45

, there are certain engineers or highly

32:48

left brain thinkers where this

32:50

works very well .

32:51

I have teachers like me . As soon as I saw

32:53

that , I was like heart bath . That

32:55

sounds like something that I would totally be

32:57

into . Where do you buy this

33:00

? I've never heard of it until you introduced

33:02

the concept to me , Valerie .

33:04

There are a lot of different sites that

33:06

you can buy this from . I

33:08

know the HeartMath site sells

33:11

some of their products

33:13

. There I have an online

33:15

dispensary called Get Healthy which

33:17

sells it , but there are multiple sources

33:20

you can get it from . Just look at HeartMath

33:22

and I'm sure you

33:24

can find more information that way .

33:26

So it's basically a biofeedback

33:28

device slash

33:31

app , is that right ?

33:34

I don't know if it qualifies

33:37

under biofeedback . I know

33:39

it kind of in more general terms

33:41

and when I use it I

33:43

feel better . I think that's the bottom

33:45

line . You

33:47

are able to check in with yourself

33:49

in a different way by

33:52

using data , and it

33:54

helps guide you to a more peaceful

33:56

state .

33:59

Is this something that you think you could use with

34:01

children ?

34:03

I believe you can use it with children as well

34:05

.

34:05

Yes , and it's not

34:07

invasive so that's

34:10

less scary , correct

34:12

and it kind of allows

34:15

the child to have a little bit of control

34:17

. Absolutely , I think that's the

34:19

thing that is lacking in the ICU , don't

34:22

you ?

34:23

Absolutely , and they do have some fun games

34:25

that you can play . One

34:28

of the games that I play is

34:30

trying to make a nature

34:32

scene appear where you have different animals

34:35

and you have different flowers

34:37

. But there are multiple games that you can use

34:40

and I do think that those

34:42

would be very helpful

34:44

for kids , especially in stressful

34:46

situations . Now I would

34:49

recommend that they also be used

34:51

, maybe before that time

34:53

, just to get them used to understanding

34:56

what the goal is . So when you get

34:58

to those more stressful situations

35:00

then they're used to using

35:03

part math and can do it with ease

35:06

.

35:06

Right . It's kind of like giving them a

35:09

tool in their toolbox that gives

35:11

them a little bit of control at

35:14

a time when they may feel powerless

35:16

. Absolutely . I

35:19

really like that idea . Okay , can we

35:21

put a link to your website

35:24

where people can order

35:26

these materials

35:28

? Absolutely , absolutely , okay

35:31

. Well , what I respect of

35:33

our lives at Traditional Medicine doesn't often

35:35

address the spirituality

35:37

, and I believe spirituality

35:39

is a vital importance to our

35:41

mental health . So can you tell us

35:44

some techniques we can use to help us

35:46

get in touch with our higher selves

35:48

? And I'm going to address

35:50

that question to you , ryan .

35:52

Absolutely . I just wanted to mention

35:54

heart math myself as a health coach

35:57

is something I was trained early

35:59

on with and she knew her point about

36:01

children . I remember one

36:03

of the famous studies about heart coherence

36:06

was from the . I believe he was one of the

36:09

leading scientists

36:12

or creators of part math . He used

36:14

his own son and their family dog , and

36:16

so they

36:19

do an experiment using the family

36:21

dog and the boys .

36:22

Well , that's amazing . They used it with the

36:24

dog .

36:26

Yes , the son and the family dog

36:28

were part of the experiment and

36:30

they were able to show how

36:33

the heart coherence affected each

36:35

other's heart . Where the dog

36:37

and the boys were , both were drawn

36:39

and intrigued into coherence

36:42

once the boy was using the heart

36:44

math technique . I love that .

36:47

I need to learn more about this , ryan .

36:49

Oh , yeah , just yeah , so I had to mention it

36:51

because of the comment about children

36:54

. Yeah , it is noninvasive

36:56

also . Yeah , but your question ? was about spirituality

36:58

, was it

37:00

so ? Oils have been

37:02

used for spirituality for thousands

37:05

of years , as far back as Egypt . Frankincense

37:09

and sandalwood , or some of the oldest , even

37:11

in digit . Populations also

37:13

would burn plant materials

37:16

, for example , to help honor and

37:18

recognize the spiritual

37:20

state of humanity . And

37:24

some of my favorite things to do with people

37:26

are myself to activate something that's bigger

37:28

than we are is to use

37:30

the oils , diffuse them in the environment

37:33

and set some intention and set

37:35

some time to do perhaps

37:37

a heart coherence technique , like

37:39

heart math , or you can put your hand over

37:41

your own heart and start incorporating

37:43

a measured breath in basically

37:46

creating and working on your own heart

37:48

coherence while addressing

37:50

prayer , or an

37:52

honoring of your ancestors , that spiritual

37:54

makeup of us . With the oils in the atmosphere

37:57

, maybe you could put them on your forehead

37:59

, on the back of your neck , your pulse point

38:01

, so you'll smell them , and for me

38:03

it helps induce that

38:05

more spiritual state of mind

38:08

. So that's how I personally find

38:10

them , but I also know that historically they've

38:12

been used in temples for

38:14

rituals and ceremonial reasons for

38:17

so long .

38:18

Yeah , I was raised in the Catholic faith

38:20

and we frequently

38:23

use different sense at

38:25

different times . And they even

38:27

have an incense burner

38:30

that they would go through and bless

38:32

the congregation at different times

38:34

of the year and the priest

38:36

would be swinging this big metal

38:38

box that he would swing

38:40

and you could smell it as he was

38:42

going by blessing the people

38:44

.

38:45

Correct , I remember that . And so I went to Catholic

38:48

school and I'm not

38:50

sure what it was . I want to say probably break

38:52

and sing but , yes

38:54

, I do recall , Wait , wait what if they

38:56

still do that .

38:57

Right . Haven't looked at the Catholic Church

38:59

in a while , so I'm not sure . But that

39:01

just shows you the power of the sense

39:04

and both of us remember that from

39:06

our childhood . And yeah

39:08

, I think you're right . I think most churches

39:11

are most religious gatherings

39:14

, spiritual gatherings . They

39:16

like candles or they

39:18

, like you were saying , they will

39:20

burn certain herbs

39:23

. Yeah yeah , that

39:26

makes a lot of sense . So

39:29

, before this show , we talked about something

39:31

that we aspire

39:34

to , and I talked about

39:36

this with you , valerie , and that was the four

39:38

agreements . And I know that not

39:40

everybody knows what the four agreements

39:43

are , but can you talk to me

39:45

about the four agreements and how people

39:47

can use those to improve their mental

39:49

health ?

39:51

Absolutely the four

39:53

agreements . It's a

39:55

book by Don Miguel Ruiz

39:57

and it has

39:59

information on how to

40:01

live , basically four agreements

40:04

based on ancient Toltec wisdom

40:06

. Those four agreements include

40:09

being impeccable with your

40:11

word , not taking anything

40:13

personally , not making assumptions

40:15

and always doing your best . And

40:18

they sound simple but they

40:20

can be very challenging to live

40:22

by , and I talk about

40:24

this book and these practices

40:27

in my own clinical

40:29

practice on a regular basis , because

40:32

I think it's another

40:34

way to be able to

40:36

get us out of that

40:39

stress mode . For instance

40:41

, not taking things personally

40:43

. How often have we done

40:45

that ourselves where we've

40:47

gotten upset , whether it was somebody

40:50

who cut us off and we

40:52

really got upset and took

40:54

it personally , but maybe

40:56

that person was rushing off

40:59

because their wife

41:01

was in the car , in pregnant and they

41:03

had to get to the hospital . There are a lot

41:05

of different reasons that maybe

41:08

somebody is not driving

41:10

or doing things the way that you would like

41:12

them , but often it's not personal

41:14

. And by practicing even just

41:16

one of these agreements , it can

41:18

help us to settle ourselves

41:20

down and understand that I

41:23

don't know any perfect people , or

41:26

at least I will do

41:28

things perfectly . I certainly

41:30

don't do that and sometimes I

41:32

have to give grace to others

41:34

and myself with

41:36

what's going on in line and

41:39

reminding us about

41:41

these simple ways

41:44

to live by can do just

41:46

that .

41:48

I found when I first read

41:50

about the four agreements , it

41:52

totally resonated with me , to the

41:54

point that I found a meme

41:57

that had the four agreements

41:59

on it and I printed it and taped

42:01

it to my desk so I could look at

42:03

it and refer to it often , because

42:05

I do think you're right , it does

42:07

sound simple , but a lot of times , the

42:09

things that sound the most simple or the hardest

42:11

to do to me , just

42:15

looking at that and remembering

42:17

that these are states

42:21

to aspire to , to not

42:23

take things personally , to be aware

42:25

of your words , because

42:27

words have the ability to heal

42:29

or to hurt , and

42:32

I don't want anyone to ever remember

42:34

me as a person who said something hurtful

42:37

. And especially in the hospital

42:39

, when you're stressed , you're not getting enough sleep

42:41

, you're scared it's very easy

42:44

to be reactive instead

42:47

of being kind , and

42:50

I think that maybe having

42:52

those four agreements in the

42:54

hallways or in different places just

42:56

to remind us of

42:58

the best way we can

43:00

behave would reduce the stress

43:03

in some situations . Don't you think

43:05

, valerie , right ?

43:07

We even use mantras to help get

43:09

us through things like surgery

43:11

. Yes , I can do it

43:13

, yes , things are going

43:15

to go well , for instance , as

43:18

opposed to , maybe , negative statements

43:21

and I do hear negative statements every

43:23

once in a while and the important

43:25

thing to know is that the body hears you . So

43:27

if you say you can't do something

43:29

, well , your body is going to listen

43:31

to you and it's not going to do it for you

43:33

. Even if you need to maybe

43:36

add in a little word , say

43:38

like we can't do this yet , that

43:40

makes such a huge difference

43:42

and you still have

43:44

that potential to be able to do

43:47

it . And in my clinic

43:49

I sometimes hear people saying

43:51

that they don't think that they can get

43:53

a whole lot better and

43:56

until they're able to change that

43:58

mindset and believe then they

44:01

stay the same because the body

44:03

listens to that statement , as

44:06

it's true . So there

44:09

can be underlying themes to work

44:11

on , like , say , unworthiness

44:13

, which I do see as well can

44:15

be a source of why people don't think they

44:17

can do things . But that's

44:19

a whole other subject to

44:22

work on and discuss at a future

44:24

time .

44:26

That's a whole show all by itself

44:28

. Let's talk about one other thing

44:30

that I think we can do for our own mental

44:32

health and this can be anywhere

44:35

and that is forgiveness

44:37

. How can

44:39

the concept of forgiveness affect

44:42

our mental health ? Valerie

44:45

, I'll start with you .

44:46

You bring up a great question

44:49

, and forgiveness is

44:51

something that I think we could all practice

44:53

more of . In fact

44:56

, I usually ask every patient

44:58

would they still need to forgive

45:01

in my practice ? Because

45:03

it's just something else that

45:05

can leave you unsettled . When you're unsettled

45:07

, you're stressed . When you're stressed , you

45:09

don't repair yourself as much or

45:12

as well , and forgiveness

45:15

is something that we're here

45:17

to do , whether it's forgiving somebody

45:19

else , but

45:21

most of the time , we do need to

45:23

focus on ourselves . What is it that we need to forgive ourselves

45:27

for ? I see a lot of people

45:29

who strive for perfection , and that's

45:31

really striving for failure

45:34

, because you can't really do

45:36

anything perfectly . We're not supposed to , but

45:40

maybe we need to understand

45:42

and give ourselves grace and forgive

45:44

ourselves for trying to think

45:46

that we could do things perfectly

45:49

before , or even

45:51

ever . Forgiveness

45:53

I think we can build up resentments

45:56

. It can build up negative feelings

45:58

that we hold within ourselves

46:00

, pretending that

46:02

we shouldn't done things perfectly before

46:05

, but really we do things

46:07

in a way so that we can learn from

46:09

them , and just shifting the mindset

46:11

can really make a difference , not just how

46:14

we feel , but also with our health

46:16

outcomes as well .

46:18

I love that . And Roya says I know

46:20

you were raised Catholic like me . Forgiveness

46:24

is actually a big part of

46:26

the Catholic religion . That's

46:28

a big part of confession , Wouldn't you

46:30

agree ?

46:32

I would agree . It's definitely a big part of the

46:34

Catholic tradition . But

46:36

when it comes to forgiveness , it

46:38

speaks to me in a way where

46:41

the first thing you need to do it's absolutely

46:43

check in on yourself , because that's where I

46:45

find a lot of people need

46:47

to start forgiving yourself , but

46:49

it's in the concept of where we're

46:51

putting energy into . For me , I

46:53

think , what's the alternative ? So let's not forgive

46:56

? Well , what are you doing when you choose that , if

46:58

you choose not to forgive ? In my opinion

47:00

, sort of giving energy towards things

47:02

that is only going to keep a

47:05

negative , silly or emotional life just

47:07

feeding into . Probably in the past and

47:10

the past has shown it has strong connections

47:12

to depression when people are taking other

47:14

paths . And so for me , I

47:16

would rather make the choice of moving forward

47:18

to forgive , and , though

47:20

it's not easy , I feel that for our

47:23

health and health standpoint , it's definitely obvious

47:26

choice to work on that moving

47:28

forward if you want to improve . So , starting

47:30

with yourself , you're realizing what

47:32

is the alternative . That probably

47:35

suboptimal or unhealthy for

47:38

me . If I choose to tap into this feeling

47:41

of resentment and not forgiving

47:43

, I'm probably hurting myself more than even

47:46

the person I'm upset with .

47:48

While I'm listening to you and Valerie

47:50

talk about forgiveness , I'm drawn

47:52

back to that ICU . Sorry , I

47:55

seem to keep getting drawn back to

47:57

the ICU . And I remember sitting

47:59

there and being so upset with

48:02

some of the procedures that my

48:04

child had to go through . And it's

48:06

like you said just now , Ryan

48:08

there wasn't a choice . There

48:11

had to be a catheter put in , IVs

48:13

had to be put into the skin , but it was

48:15

painful . And I

48:17

wonder if at that point I

48:19

could have consciously said

48:22

I forgive you for hurting my

48:24

child , because I know my

48:26

child needs us to get better . And

48:29

I wonder if children who

48:31

are having things done to

48:34

them , if their parents

48:36

could coach them and say this

48:39

is going to hurt , but

48:41

we have to go through this so you

48:43

can get better and you have the

48:45

ability to forgive those who are

48:47

harming you because they really

48:49

only want to help you . I wonder

48:51

if giving them those words

48:54

and giving them that ability to

48:56

forgive would , in the long

48:58

run , help them with their mental health

49:00

.

49:01

I think that goes back to one of the agreements

49:04

that always do your best and if

49:06

you can think about certain

49:08

folks who have maybe seemed

49:10

like they wronged you , like , say , in

49:13

the hospital , certain practitioners

49:15

, healthcare workers , who

49:17

may hurt but are also

49:20

trying to do their best for

49:22

you , that can help

49:24

. And I agree that it

49:27

can be helpful to ask children

49:29

to see if they can forgive

49:31

them , because I do see a lot

49:34

of people who have resentment

49:36

against the healthcare system because

49:39

they were hurt by either specific

49:41

people or procedures or they

49:43

didn't feel like people cared

49:46

, and sometimes it has

49:48

to do with , say , a

49:50

physician being sobered out , that

49:52

they're just trying to hang on each

49:54

day and do their jobs . Or

49:57

maybe there are other circumstances that

49:59

we don't know , that we can't necessarily

50:02

make assumptions about , but

50:05

at the end of the day , understanding

50:07

that we do have that power to

50:09

forgive and teaching children early

50:11

about forgiveness , I definitely think is

50:14

the way to go , with there

50:16

there's a hospital setting or not

50:18

.

50:18

Yeah , I think so too . I think

50:20

there's power in forgiveness

50:23

and one of the worst parts

50:25

about being a patient is

50:27

feeling powerless . You look

50:30

up to this authority figure usually a doctor

50:32

, sometimes it's a nurse , sometimes it's a

50:34

therapist and it

50:36

feels like they are the ones

50:38

with the power and you are powerless

50:41

. You're lesser of a person

50:43

than they are , and I think that's one

50:45

of the scary things . We have less knowledge

50:47

, we have less capability

50:50

, especially if we're sick or hurting , and

50:53

knowing that you have a little

50:55

bit of control , you can control

50:58

forgiving somebody especially

51:00

. I remember I

51:08

remember one time that my baby was

51:10

very stressed and crying

51:12

because she was hurt and

51:14

them having to poke

51:16

over and over trying to

51:18

get some blood and

51:21

because my baby was distressed . I'm

51:23

sure that just made everything worse

51:25

. And at one point I just

51:27

pulled my baby away and I said you're not touching

51:29

her again , somebody

51:32

else needs to come . And

51:34

I felt like I needed to calm her down and

51:37

try and get to a more serene

51:41

place before they would try

51:43

and poke her again . And I wish now that

51:46

I had thought to say I

51:48

forgive you for what you're doing , but we just need

51:50

a moment . I don't think I was very

51:52

kind . I think at

51:54

that time I was Mama Tiger and I

51:56

was pulling my child away and being

51:58

very defensive . But I

52:01

think forgiveness is one of those things

52:03

that we just forget about when

52:05

we're in a very stressful situation

52:07

.

52:08

Later as well , I often ask patients to

52:10

write a letter to

52:15

whoever they need to forgive , whether it's

52:17

somebody else or themselves . Write down all those feelings

52:21

, everything they want to say , even

52:23

if they don't understand what happened

52:25

. And , if they choose

52:27

, they can write down that they forgive

52:30

that person and shred the

52:32

paper afterwards .

52:35

It's interesting that you say that for

52:37

a while , after we left the

52:39

Catholic Church , we went

52:41

into the Unitarian Universalist Church

52:43

and because I had been a teacher

52:46

, they asked me to teach the children

52:48

, which I found interesting

52:50

because I was just learning about

52:52

the UU principles myself . But

52:54

there's no better way to learn it than to

52:56

have to teach it to children . And

52:59

the one year that I was

53:01

teaching we decided to focus

53:04

on different religious traditions

53:06

, introducing our children to all different concepts

53:09

. The Jewish religion has a

53:11

tradition where they write

53:13

down parts like that

53:15

once a year . They write it on a piece

53:17

of paper and then they throw it into the river . So

53:21

in my classroom we

53:23

put some blue construction paper on the

53:25

floor . That was our river and

53:28

we wrote down those hurts for

53:30

which we wanted to forgive somebody . And

53:32

then we crumbled up the paper and we threw

53:35

it in the river and it was very

53:37

cleansing . That's

53:39

a great practice and

53:42

now that I think about it , I think we should all do that at

53:44

least once a year . And it's like

53:46

you said you don't even have to send it

53:48

, you don't have to confront somebody , and

53:50

sometimes you may not be able to

53:52

because it may have happened so many years

53:55

ago . You may not be in the same place , but

53:57

just to give it up to the

53:59

universe that , yes , this

54:01

wrong was done

54:03

to you or you weren't brave

54:06

enough to say something .

54:07

I'm just agreeing because forgiving is free

54:10

. That sounds like it's forgiveness

54:12

to free .

54:13

It is . It is , and I

54:15

think for our mental health

54:18

, that is one of the most

54:20

important things that we can do is to

54:22

free ourselves from the power someone

54:24

may have over us , with

54:26

us not forgiving Right

54:29

. This has been most

54:31

enjoyable , and I hope that

54:34

all of these different concepts

54:36

will be embraced by my

54:38

listeners . I hope there's something that you

54:40

found that we talked about today , whether it's the

54:42

essential oils or the

54:45

spiritual practice of forgiveness

54:48

, or talking or singing

54:50

, or even making a puzzle . I love

54:52

it . We talked about so many different ways

54:54

that we can try and introduce a sense

54:56

of peace into our hearts that

54:59

will allow us to heal ourselves . So

55:01

thank you so much for coming on the program

55:03

today , ryan .

55:05

My pleasure , absolutely my pleasure

55:07

.

55:07

And Valerie . I loved talking with you about

55:10

so many things Heart math . I'm never

55:12

going to forget that that is so awesome . Thank

55:14

you for coming on the program today . Thank

55:17

you .

55:17

Anna .

55:19

That does conclude this episode of Heart

55:21

to Heart with Anna . Thanks for listening today

55:23

. Did you all know that I started a new

55:25

podcast ? It's us so new by now We've completed

55:28

our first year , but check it out . It's called

55:30

the CHC Podcast Congenital

55:33

Heart Conversations and

55:35

we would love for you to join us

55:37

. Remember my friends , you

55:39

are not alone .

55:50

Thank you again for joining us this week . We

55:52

hope you have become inspired and empowered

55:54

to become an advocate for the Congenital

55:56

Heart community . Heart to Heart with Anna

55:59

, with your host , anna Jaworski , can be

56:01

heard at any time , wherever you get your

56:03

podcasts . A new episode is released

56:05

every Tuesday from Noon Eastern Time

56:07

.