0:01

Linked In News. From

0:07

the news team at Linked In, I'm Jessie

0:09

Humble and this is hello Monday. I

0:16

want to start today by telling

0:18

you about one morning in Kelly

0:21

Thompson life. Now

0:24

to really understand the weight of

0:26

this morning, you have to know

0:28

something about Kelly. She was born

0:30

a rule follower in over achiever.

0:32

Something. I can really relate to

0:34

actually. when she was a teenager,

0:37

she made this checklist for herself.

0:39

It had a list of all

0:41

the things that she would need

0:43

to do in order to be

0:45

successful. Finish college. Check. Good job

0:47

Check. Marry young and have kids

0:49

early? check And check. Fancy car

0:52

check Big house check. Is

0:54

it really surprising that by the time

0:56

that Kelly got to the end of

0:59

this list that she checked every single

1:01

box, her life didn't feel like what

1:03

she wanted it to. On

1:06

this morning that I'm talking about,

1:08

Kelly was somewhere in her thirties,

1:10

she just ended this very long

1:12

relationship one that she thought would

1:14

be thou one and she was

1:16

exhausted. She was living paycheck to

1:18

paycheck and raising a daughter on

1:20

her own and that dream job

1:22

that she'd started a year earlier.

1:24

Well, if is no longer dreamy

1:26

and she was questioning whether she

1:28

was even in the right career

1:31

field at all. After

1:33

this really crappy night's sleep,

1:35

she poured herself some coffee.

1:38

She slumped down into a chair

1:40

at the table and she really

1:42

intended to journal to just try

1:44

to figure it out. But as

1:46

she opened her book to just

1:48

began to cry Like big ugly

1:51

sob cries. My old.

1:53

Life I completely gone away, I knew that

1:55

my career was going to have to take

1:57

a big turn, I knew the types of

1:59

relationships that I. Oh then we're not

2:01

right and not that was old, but

2:03

the future wasn't here yet. So.

2:06

This moment when everything all

2:09

doesn't work anymore and what's

2:11

ahead hasn't revealed itself yet?

2:13

Well, it's magic. It's a

2:15

vulnerable moment. Maybe. Useless

2:17

diversion of it. I have for

2:19

sure. Today show is

2:21

about what came after this for Kelly.

2:24

And everything that it can teach us. Have.

2:27

To this. The

2:30

link park s that was sponsored by

2:32

T I A P I a mix

2:34

the or time it. A

2:37

promise of a guaranteed retirement pay

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check for life? Learn more at

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T I A bad word. Backslash

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promises pay off. It's

2:49

been a decade since Kelly had

2:51

a moment of clarity. Today she

2:53

went a Women's Leadership in Career

2:55

Coaching Company. Recently, she folded everything

2:57

she's learned into a book called

2:59

Closing The Confidence Cat. Have.

3:02

Kelly's been listening to The Shell for years.

3:05

That's how I that's an hour. She

3:07

often simpson a conversations with other Hello

3:09

Monday listeners in or soup on linked

3:12

in. She always has just released seeds

3:14

had face. Today

3:16

Kelly will decide the confidence

3:18

gap for us to say

3:20

strategies for getting more comfortable

3:22

with uncertainty and getting over

3:24

procrastination. She'll shared part of

3:26

herself. Here's Kelly.

3:32

So. The confidence gap is actually a research there

3:35

had been done by Wharton and so what

3:37

they did was they kind of dissent Summarize

3:39

it: three bucks kind of the standard test

3:41

men and women tickets. They did not tell

3:43

them how they did on the test but

3:45

based on how they sought they did on

3:47

the past there is a mock experience with

3:49

they were supposed to go an advocate for

3:51

themselves and how well they did it on

3:53

the past and for roles at this kind

3:55

of pretended company and it's probably not gonna

3:57

come to a shock to you Would I

3:59

say- Who do you think did a better

4:01

job advocating for themselves and how they thought they did

4:03

on the test? Men did a

4:05

better job doing that. But if I were to

4:07

ask you, well, who actually did better on the test? It's

4:10

actually women did slightly better on the test.

4:12

And I know this research

4:14

project has been replicated in medical schools as

4:16

well. And so the researchers at

4:18

Wharton said, okay, well, maybe if we tell

4:21

women that they did better on

4:23

the test, then their confidence will follow suit

4:25

because they're saying, okay, there's this confidence gap.

4:28

That's actually not gonna cut it. Because I think

4:30

to close the confidence gap, it's not just about

4:32

telling women, oh, be more confident, or hey, you

4:34

did better. It's actually about

4:36

seeing more women in the rooms

4:38

where decisions are made. It's about really

4:41

addressing some of these systemic issues

4:43

so that women can see themselves using

4:45

healthy self-advocacy. We can see people like

4:47

us who are leading in different

4:49

ways, using feminine leadership qualities and not

4:52

just following along with this

4:54

just one way that we think should be

4:56

a leader, which has typically been a more

4:58

masculine view. Yes, there are systemic things that

5:00

need to be addressed, like wage

5:02

gaps and workload, et

5:05

cetera. And we aren't

5:07

gonna change the systems overnight. It would be

5:09

awesome if we could, but we can't. So

5:11

what are some strategies that we can use

5:13

to thrive inside of those systems and to

5:15

show up as our most clear and confident

5:18

selves? I really love that. I

5:20

had a wonderful thinker who I love on

5:22

the show a while ago now, Debbie Millman,

5:25

and I asked her about confidence. And her

5:27

response kind of surprised me, but has sort

5:29

of stuck with me. She

5:32

said, confidence is only ever experienced after

5:34

the effect. It's what you have when

5:36

you look back at something that worked.

5:39

Then you can point and say confidence. In

5:41

the moment, we are all fumbling forward. That

5:44

is what we are doing. Yeah,

5:47

she's right. I have a saying. I say confidence

5:49

is a side effect of taking action. And

5:53

so when you talk about fumbling forward, I

5:55

think a lot about some of the strategies that

5:57

I use with my clients. And one that the...

6:00

He strategy is this so many of them say.

6:02

Actually, I don't know if I can ask for

6:04

this raise. I don't know if I should apply

6:06

for this job. I don't know if I said

6:08

hold this crucial conversations my leader because I just

6:10

don't feel confident. And the

6:13

number one strategy they use it on my

6:15

clients is to say you know what's great.

6:17

Leaders are always confident of time. They've

6:19

actually learn to transform their relationship

6:21

with that. And that's what we're

6:23

going to focus on, As we're going to focus on. Getting really,

6:26

really comfortable with dealt. And

6:28

nerves and imposter feelings and all

6:31

those weird a gross things that

6:33

we have right before we're about

6:35

to do those big things. it's

6:38

just normalizing doubt, normalizing discomfort, and

6:40

saying, how can we take our

6:42

smallest, bravest next steps in alignment

6:44

with our values while also. Feeling

6:47

doubtful. I I tell a

6:49

story in the book about the strategy. I talked

6:51

about my daughter and how when she was four

6:53

years old she kind of developed this condition called

6:55

the but first you know about this would dude

6:58

I'm every time you ask him to do something

7:00

like all. but first I need a good drink.

7:02

Oh but first I need to put on sock

7:04

sock something ridiculous. It's their way of stalling because

7:06

they don't want to do things us uncomfortable And

7:09

I say you know what we never really out

7:11

world about firsts. He just get

7:13

more sophisticated. Now we have this job that

7:15

we would apply for Me See all but

7:17

first. Yes, I need to go back and

7:20

get more education. I need to go read

7:22

one more book or whatever that might be

7:24

And I really encourage folks to change their

7:27

but first to while. Also. And

7:29

that's what I just described. I

7:31

can apply for this job while

7:34

also feeling nervous. I can have

7:36

this really crucial conversation. well also

7:38

feeling doubtful. i can

7:40

stand up and sarah my ideas in this

7:42

meeting well also feeling a little bit like

7:44

an imposter is learning to do these things

7:47

that we want to do that are aligned

7:49

with our goals in our values are recognizing

7:51

we're going to have to do it while

7:53

also feeling these really uncomfortable feelings because we're

7:55

human and there are people who don't feel

7:57

doubt and nerves an imposter syndrome And I

7:59

always joke that they're on Dateline, and I

8:01

watch them every Friday night with my husband

8:03

in a margarita. So these feelings

8:05

are normal, and they're healthy, and they're all

8:07

part of growing and stretching. And in fact, that's

8:09

a good sign that you are stretching your comfort

8:12

zone and moving towards your goals, is you should

8:14

actually feel a level of doubt, and

8:16

that's absolutely healthy. Well, you know,

8:18

in thinking about that, and yes, Jude has that habit too.

8:20

And by the way, I do too. I read about your

8:22

daughter, and I was like, you know, it's

8:25

funny because I'm actually reading this book so that

8:27

I don't have to write an essay that is

8:30

a very hard thing for me to do. I'm a

8:32

writer, but it's very hard to write something that

8:34

I'm proud of. But first, I'm going to read

8:36

your book, Kelly, because we're talking later today. And

8:38

then I'll start the essay. But

8:41

one thing that's sort of sprung to my mind

8:43

that has been helpful to me is

8:46

thinking about the fact that in any given meeting

8:48

when I open my mouth and then words come

8:50

out and then I'm talking, most

8:53

people are so concerned with themselves and

8:56

how they appear that they're not going

8:58

to remember my fumble, whatever it is,

9:00

that I am going to be the

9:02

deepest chronicler and the biggest skeptic of

9:05

any of my own behavior in public.

9:08

Yeah, I think sometimes we

9:10

are very self-centered. And

9:13

I mean that in just a very normal human way. You're

9:16

right. Like when I think about standing up

9:18

right before I got to give a training. Or

9:20

let's just be honest, right before I switch on

9:22

for this podcast, I'm nervous and I'm

9:24

thinking about all the things I'm saying and it's just exiting

9:26

my mouth and I'm overanalyzing it. And I'm like, Oh my

9:28

gosh, did I just really say that? Did I just really

9:31

pause that way and stumble? And

9:33

I think we're the ones who are always thinking of it. And

9:36

I heard some liberating advice once. I believe it

9:38

was in Elizabeth Gilbert's book, Big Magic. And she

9:40

basically says something. She's like, you know, once we

9:43

age, we get to this age where we start

9:45

to realize that nobody was ever thinking of us

9:47

anyhow. And

9:50

that has been such liberating advice. And

9:53

one of the things that I really started to do

9:55

as someone who does a lot of training is

9:57

I started to realize to your point how much I was

9:59

over. overanalyzing me, my feelings, what am I

10:02

feeling? I'm over here nervous, I'm pacing,

10:04

I'm feeling imposter feelings, all the things.

10:06

I was like, oh, you know what?

10:08

I'm not even thinking about my audience of 200

10:10

people who's sitting here. I'm only thinking about myself.

10:13

And so one of the strategies that's been really helpful

10:15

for me that I really talk about in

10:17

the book and encourage my clients to do is

10:20

just to ask yourself, wait a minute, what about the people in front

10:22

of you? Name three

10:24

words that you want this person

10:26

to feel. So let's say you

10:28

are going into a job interview and you're all up

10:31

in your cells about what you're saying. Okay,

10:33

what are three words that describe

10:35

how I want the

10:37

other person to feel who's interviewing me? It's

10:40

really hard to think about myself. And

10:42

it's really hard to think about all of my

10:44

internal drama because I'm sitting there

10:46

focused and compassionate towards the person in

10:48

front of me. Does it relieve all

10:51

the energy of nerves? No, but it

10:53

definitely helps refocus my energy into creating

10:55

the conversation that I want to have.

10:57

There was a gentleness to what it

10:59

felt to me that you were trying

11:01

to communicate in that way, that you

11:04

weren't actually asking me to let go

11:06

of all of the layers upon layers

11:08

of socialization that have taught

11:10

me to be nervous in

11:12

myriad ways, but you are simply

11:15

inviting me to allow all of that

11:17

to be true and still to take action. We're

11:23

gonna take a quick break here, more with

11:25

Kelly Thompson when we return. The

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with a sixteen secret though. when your

13:00

favorite listening and. Welcome

13:07

back! You know? over the

13:09

past five years and hello Monday, I've

13:11

spoken to so many people. And

13:14

so often their advice has similar

13:16

new things that runs through it.

13:19

So. Many people share this idea that one

13:21

way we hold ourselves back is that we

13:23

don't punch have the confidence to imagine a

13:25

big enough future for ourselves in the first

13:27

place. So I asked

13:29

Kelly about this. And

13:32

so cause you talked about that, you

13:34

know? I think sometimes and I can

13:36

just speak for me personally. I.

13:39

Think a lot of the way that we are brought

13:41

up. In I talked

13:43

about my book. I have a very

13:45

small town Catholics, midwestern upbringing. and

13:48

there's just some quote unquote rules that some without

13:50

or maybe some self imposed limitations like oh people

13:52

from my community we don't go to the big

13:54

city we don't go do that like i could

13:57

have only know maybe I can name one person

13:59

who like went to New York City for their

14:01

career. I mean we just didn't do that. And

14:03

so I think some of that is like these

14:06

self-imposed limits. And

14:08

it's really hard for us to think bigger about

14:10

that. And you know, I even you

14:12

know work with my own coach. And that's

14:15

something that's really been coming up in our

14:17

own conversations, is really

14:19

thinking about gosh, what is possible?

14:21

You know, what's possible next from you know, the

14:23

impact that I want to make my career, you

14:25

know, the growth, etc. And I think when I

14:27

work with my own clients who are rising up

14:29

in organizations, that is very, very

14:31

scary for them. Because maybe they never

14:33

saw themselves as a chief whatever officer.

14:36

And so to even think that big or

14:38

even to think about being the CEO can

14:40

be really scary. And one of

14:42

the things that I really think is

14:44

sometimes I don't think we're so much scared

14:46

of failure, as much

14:49

we are as scared as exposure. Because

14:51

as we grow and accelerate in our

14:53

career, our decisions impact more people. Our

14:56

voice gets heard by more people. And

14:58

that opens criticism, it opens judgment. And

15:01

then of course, then all the nerves, the doubt,

15:03

the imposter feelings come. And so sometimes

15:05

I think that can be really hard. I'm just speaking for

15:08

me personally, when I really think about, gosh, what do I

15:10

want to do? Who do I want to become? Absolutely

15:13

confidence plays into that. Yeah, because it's easy to shrink back

15:15

and be like, Oh, I don't know if I want to

15:17

do that. Because what will people think? Or what if I

15:19

did this? And then what if I get criticized? And

15:22

I do, I see it with my clients that

15:24

I work with in organizations as they accelerate in

15:26

the organization, who am I to be this big?

15:28

Yeah, what if I get to that level? And

15:30

you know, I can't make the right decisions, or

15:32

I can't handle the exposure of the scrutiny of

15:34

the board and my peers, etc, etc. And

15:36

so as it kind of comes back to what we

15:38

were talking about, yes, that is true. And, you

15:41

know, that's just growth that we have to really

15:43

get comfortable with all of those doubts and imposter

15:45

feelings that come with it. And I think that

15:47

that's where it's really important to have the right

15:50

levels of support. Yeah. So

15:52

as you think about the clients you work with,

15:54

I would love your perspective on how

15:57

we develop in our careers. Do

15:59

you think looking back on it, for

16:01

example, that you could have been

16:03

a different kind of professional with more

16:05

information in your 20s? Or do

16:07

you think that that was just the chapter of your career and

16:10

the things that you were supposed to be learning then? Oh

16:13

my gosh, this is my existential crisis, Jesse. And

16:15

I don't know. I think

16:17

about this all of the time

16:20

is I think about being

16:22

in my 20s, having a career, having a child

16:25

at 24, and thinking, gosh,

16:28

was I just in survival mode? Did

16:30

I just do the best that I could because I needed to go

16:32

to work and have benefits, get a job and come home and take care

16:34

of my daughter? You know, I think

16:36

in our 20s, looking back at

16:39

my own experience, I can only speak from my

16:41

own experience, my 20s was a lot of do

16:43

I like this? Yeah. Is this what I want

16:45

to be doing? Do I like working for this

16:47

type of manager or that type of manager? What

16:49

sort of things do I enjoy? And I think

16:51

one of the things that I did well in

16:54

my 20s was saying yes to a lot of

16:56

new types of projects or experiences to try to

16:58

figure that out. One of the

17:00

things that I did not do well in my

17:02

20s was to really trust myself. Trust myself

17:04

to speak up. You know, in fact,

17:06

I define confidence is the ability to trust yourself.

17:08

Yeah. And to take action on that. Yeah. And

17:11

I don't think I did a great job of

17:13

trusting myself. I outsourced too

17:15

much. I pulled other people on

17:17

what they think I should do. Maybe a

17:19

senior leader came in and said, Hey, Kelly,

17:21

you should try this or do this. And I was like,

17:23

okay, that's great. You know, because they must know what they're

17:26

talking about. They're in the corner office and they look happy

17:28

and successful. I wish in my

17:30

20s, I just would have trusted my gut a

17:32

little bit more and held a little more confidence

17:34

to speak up and say yes to some things

17:36

and notice some things. I

17:38

don't think it was until my 30s where I

17:40

really started to kind of have this aha moment

17:42

that, oh, maybe I had a little more

17:44

agency over what I wanted to do. And

17:47

maybe my identity wasn't tied to this

17:49

organization that I've been at for 12

17:51

years that had practically raised me. And

17:53

I really started to feel my confidence

17:55

emerge more in my 30s when a

17:58

few things started to happen. I

18:00

really started to get clear about what my values

18:03

were. Yeah. What do I value in an organization?

18:05

And not just their values that they have on their website,

18:07

but how do they actually make decisions and where do they

18:09

spend their money and do I align with that? In

18:12

my 30s, I also got really clear on what are my

18:14

unique talents and gifts? Like what have

18:16

I been put on this earth to do? And does

18:18

this employer allow me to do that? And

18:21

if not, you know, maybe somewhere else. I

18:23

really started to notice my energy, like what's my energy level when I

18:26

go to work? You know, do I feel good?

18:28

Does it surge my energy? Am I feeling happy, tired at

18:30

the end of the day because I've done some really cool

18:32

stuff or do I feel really burned out? And

18:35

then I started to really think about is

18:37

my current goal and my employer moving me

18:39

closer to my ultimate career goals

18:41

and the impact I want to make? I

18:43

think I just started to get wiser about asking

18:45

those questions in my 30s and then realizing, oh,

18:47

I have agency that if these things aren't aligned,

18:50

I can go find something that is. Well,

18:52

to ask those alignment questions, you

18:55

need some degree of clarity of your

18:57

own. And I really liked the way

18:59

that you embraced this idea of personal

19:02

values and understanding what they are before

19:04

you even begin the career journey, as

19:06

it were. Like what is important to

19:08

you? And you invite

19:10

the reader to do the same. Yeah.

19:14

Because I think when I get my

19:16

own experience in personal relationships, my

19:19

personal relationships haven't always been so great. I've been

19:21

divorced. I've called up a wedding. Now I'm happily

19:23

remarried. And even in

19:25

my professional career, one

19:28

of the things that was like the bedrock

19:30

of both of them is that when our

19:32

values were not aligned, everything was chaos. Because

19:35

we were just trying to live or work

19:38

two very different ways. Yeah. You

19:40

know, Kelly, you described this crisis moment that

19:42

you had in the book. And it was

19:44

the moment where I began to trust you

19:47

as an author and as

19:49

a person delivering this information.

19:52

And it was this moment when post divorce,

19:54

you would call it an offer relationship. And

19:57

I really connected with this moment even though

20:00

this is not my life experience at all. I've never

20:02

lived in the Midwest. I was not

20:04

married at the time that you had

20:07

in your life been married and divorced, but

20:09

I have sat at my dining

20:11

room table exhausted after a night

20:13

of worrying, unable

20:16

to pull myself together enough that I felt like

20:19

I could go to work. I have been in

20:21

that kind of crisis. And

20:23

it made me think about the importance

20:26

of crisis in helping

20:29

us to refine, realign, and

20:31

get on the right path.

20:34

And I was just wondering if you

20:36

might reflect a little bit on what

20:38

you, how that crisis actually, like what

20:40

happened for you then? Was that the

20:42

turning point? Did you have the tools

20:44

in your toolbox right then to know

20:46

what to do? Or did you need

20:48

to go someplace for them? Yeah,

20:51

no, I was a hot mess. So just a

20:53

set context. At that point

20:55

of crisis, obviously,

20:57

I was divorced. The

20:59

job that I thought I was going to love, I was, we

21:02

got bought out, my position was going to

21:04

be eliminated. And I had just called off

21:06

a wedding from a five year relationship. Nothing

21:09

was working. And it, it

21:11

literally felt like rock bottom for me, because

21:14

I just didn't know what way was up. I don't know what

21:16

I'm going to do in my career. This person

21:18

that I thought I was going to be with,

21:21

you know, is not, this is not going to

21:23

happen. And so in that moment, it was just

21:25

almost like, gosh, can I even trust myself to

21:27

make the right decision? Like, what if I keep

21:29

going and I keep choosing wrongly? Yeah, I don't

21:31

know if wrongly is a word, but that's how

21:34

I felt. And so to

21:36

your point, did I have all the tools? No, I

21:39

felt like crap. It was just like this

21:41

really, I now I know, I

21:43

now know what's called liminal space. My

21:45

old life had completely gone away. I

21:48

knew that my career was going to need to

21:50

take a big turn because of the acquisition of

21:52

my company. I knew the types of relationships that

21:55

I had chosen were not right. And that that

21:57

was old, but the future

21:59

wasn't here. That are. You know what else

22:01

I looked like So within this really murky

22:03

limited space of i don't know who I

22:05

am as I don't know what I won

22:07

and an oil supposed do is love You

22:09

know that I could tell you in that

22:11

moment. I knew what I didn't want.

22:14

And that's where I started. I

22:16

made a list of everything I didn't ones

22:18

both personally and professionally and when I am

22:20

working with folks who are in crisis lot

22:22

of times they can't tell you what they

22:25

want. I could tell you what I wanted

22:27

If somebody was said well what do you

22:29

want telling him week? I don't know not

22:31

and I knew what I didn't One and

22:33

son started there and I think the other

22:35

place I had to start that was really

22:37

painful Jesse was that He would have been

22:39

easy for me to blame my past relationships

22:41

for not working out or even you know

22:43

the job but I was like you know

22:45

there's a common denominator. And all of this, and that's

22:47

me. And so

22:49

I need to get clear on the choices

22:51

that I made and the thoughts that I

22:53

thought the police that I has that led

22:55

me to this place. So.

22:57

I made a list of what I didn't want

22:59

and I made it really honest and painful accounting

23:02

of the choices. That I mean that brought me

23:04

here because if I knew about the choices and

23:06

the assumptions and a me that brought me here

23:08

I could. Choose differently going forward. And

23:10

that's all I knew without points. As

23:12

I would tell you than that, I

23:14

then found some books about career changes

23:16

and pivoting and those were really help

23:18

for that kind of your built some

23:20

tools and my toolbox. But in that

23:22

tender, gross, messy moment I knew nothing.

23:24

I felt terrible, but I need to

23:26

things but I didn't once. And.

23:28

Just to ride out how I got here. Guess it makes them.

23:30

Different. Choices. It's wonderful on.

23:33

There is also in underlying belief that

23:35

I want to call out as he

23:37

tell that story and that is that.

23:40

To. Some degree you must have. Believed.

23:43

That. You are capable of change of

23:45

growth. And

23:47

curious the degree to which are

23:50

growth mindset is and necessary did

23:52

driver to confidence. yeah

23:54

that's really interesting to reflect on and i think

23:56

i would need to take some time to

23:58

reflect on what was it? And maybe that's a

24:01

great coaching question for all of us in

24:03

these messy moments, because I'm sure I'm going to have

24:05

another one in my life, because that's just what being

24:08

human I know life is so messy. It's not linear,

24:10

Kelly, both you and I are staring into a future

24:12

that will have more of these. I

24:14

know. And so I think that that's just such

24:16

a good coaching question in the moment that we

24:18

can all ask ourselves is what

24:21

capability lies within me to do

24:24

something different. The first thing that

24:26

comes to mind for me when you ask me

24:28

that question is drawing back to

24:30

old pivots in my life. Like I'm immediately going

24:32

back, okay, this for me. Well, and it kind

24:34

of has happened. I remember during COVID, my,

24:37

I was an entrepreneur at this time, my

24:39

business totally crashed overnight because my coaching contracts had

24:41

canceled that were through organization speaking. And so I

24:43

lost like 80 to 90% of

24:45

my business overnight, which was terrible. But

24:47

that crisis caused me to get focused. Okay. What do

24:50

I, what do I not want? What's in alignment with

24:52

my values? If things can't get any worse, what's the

24:54

one thing I want to do? I'm like, okay, well,

24:56

I want to focus on women. And

24:59

so thinking back to that, I remember thinking, Oh, I've

25:01

been through crisis before. And

25:03

that was all I knew. I've been through crisis before.

25:05

And I survived every single one. And I think that's

25:07

the only thing I knew at that point. And maybe

25:09

that's something where folks could start is to say, you

25:11

know, where have you been in crisis before? And

25:14

what did you do? What did you learn? What skills, you

25:16

know, what skills did you use during that crisis that you

25:18

can transfer to this crisis? And if

25:21

that's all you can account for that day,

25:23

then like, high five. That

25:28

was Kelly Thompson. Her book is called

25:31

Closing the Confidence Gap. And

25:34

she offers some real gems in this

25:36

conversation. For one, Kelly defines

25:38

confidence as the ability to trust oneself

25:40

and take action. People

25:43

aren't confident all the time. It's not a thing.

25:46

But we can learn to normalize discomfort

25:48

and it will help us move with

25:50

confidence. Also, Kelly

25:52

asks us to challenge the butt first

25:54

mindset. And I love this. She

25:57

has a substitute while also Rather

26:00

than saying to yourself, I'm going to

26:02

apply for this job, but first I'm going to realize

26:04

just how nervous I am, she suggests

26:07

applying for the job while

26:09

also feeling nervous. We'll

26:13

be talking about confidence this week

26:15

at Office Hours. Come

26:18

grab a coffee, grab a drink, your lunch,

26:20

whatever you like, and share your thoughts with

26:22

us this Wednesday afternoon at 3pm Eastern. We'll

26:26

go live from the LinkedIn News page. If

26:29

you have trouble finding us, you can

26:31

email us at hellomondayatlinkedin.com. We'll

26:33

send you a link. Hello

26:38

Monday is a production of LinkedIn News.

26:40

Lolia Briggs produced this episode with help

26:42

from Sarah Storm. It's sound

26:45

designed and engineered by a soft-good drone. Our

26:48

theme music was composed just for us

26:50

by the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. Our

26:53

contributor, Michaela Greer, radiates

26:55

confidence. Enrique Montavo is

26:57

our executive producer. Dave Pond is head

26:59

of news production. Courtney Koop

27:01

has head of original programming. Dan

27:03

Rock is the editor-in-chief of LinkedIn.

27:07

I'm Jessi Hempel. Be back next Monday.

27:09

Thanks for listening. You

27:14

had your daughter at 23 and I had my son

27:17

at 43 because the checklist, I had

27:19

the same checklist as you, but it

27:21

just never worked out for me. And

27:25

that there are benefits to doing it on

27:27

both sides of the curve. But right this

27:29

second, I'm a little jealous of you. I

27:31

have to tell you. Oh. Well,

27:34

because you had your freedom in your 20s. Yes,

27:36

I did.