0:01

LinkedIn News. From

0:07

the news team at LinkedIn, I'm Jessi Hempel

0:10

and this is Hello Monday. It's

0:18

been exactly a decade since

0:20

Satya Nadella became the CEO

0:22

of Microsoft. I really

0:25

remember it because that is when I met him,

0:27

2014. I

0:29

wrote the first big story about

0:32

Satya for Wired magazine. Microsoft was

0:34

this stodgy, stagnant company

0:36

in need of a turnaround and

0:39

most people didn't have a ton of faith in it. Everyone

0:42

wondered, I wondered, could

0:44

Satya Nadella do it? So

0:47

fast forward a decade and look at

0:49

Microsoft now. The stock is up

0:51

more than a thousand percent. It's

0:53

one of the biggest transformation stories in

0:55

business history and yes, I

0:58

now work for Microsoft because Microsoft

1:00

owns LinkedIn. So

1:02

when I launched Hello Monday, I

1:04

invited Satya into the studio to ask

1:07

him first hand how he had done

1:09

it. How did he light

1:11

a fire under his employees? He

1:13

had one immediate answer, growth

1:16

mindset. The concept is

1:18

pretty straightforward. If you take two kids in

1:20

school, one of them has more innate capability

1:23

but is a know-it-all. The other

1:25

person has less innate capability but is

1:27

a learn-it-all. You know how the story

1:29

ends. The learn-it-all does better than the

1:31

know-it-all. This idea

1:33

of growth mindset, learn-it-all, as Satya

1:35

calls it, it's one of the

1:38

most important concepts in business culture

1:40

today. It comes up in

1:42

so many of our episodes that it's sort of become its

1:44

own shorthand. That's so

1:46

not growth mindset of you, I might

1:48

say. But we tend

1:50

to simplify it. We rarely think about how

1:52

to engender it. And when we

1:54

all have things we feel we can't get better at,

1:57

ideas we're attached to. So

2:00

how can we change our own mind? That's

2:02

what we're gonna do. The

2:13

LinkedIn Podcast Network is sponsored

2:15

by TIAA. TIAA makes you

2:18

a retirement promise. A

2:20

promise of a guaranteed retirement

2:22

paycheck for life. Learn more

2:25

at tiaa.org backslash promises pay

2:27

off. Today's

2:33

guest is Dr. Mary Murphy. Dr.

2:35

Murphy studied under Stanford's Carol

2:37

Dweck, the pioneer of growth mindsets.

2:40

Dr. Murphy insists that our mindset is

2:42

less like a switch and more like

2:44

a spectrum. Her new

2:47

book is Cultures of Growth, how

2:49

the new science of mindset can

2:51

transform individuals, teams, and organizations. It's

2:54

backed by more than 10 years of

2:56

research into orgs like Patagonia and this

2:58

one, Microsoft, companies that were

3:00

built on cultures of growth. Dr.

3:03

Murphy found that these teams succeeded by

3:05

getting people to work together and to

3:07

think a little bigger. Now

3:10

on the other hand, Dr. Murphy describes

3:12

cultures of genius. These are

3:14

the opposite of growth mindset style companies.

3:17

Instead of seeing everyone as capable, they

3:19

set up a couple of so-called geniuses,

3:22

these big thinkers from whom all

3:24

ideas must flow. This

3:26

mindset keeps knowledge specialized and rarefied,

3:29

and it can leave team members

3:31

feeling stuck, stagnant. But

3:34

these mindsets, they're not new to us. Dr.

3:37

Murphy explains how we're taught these cultures, cultures

3:40

of growth or genius from

3:42

a very early age. Here's

3:45

Mary Murphy. We

3:48

have at least a couple of

3:50

misunderstandings and misconceptions about mindset. I

3:53

think one of the major misconceptions we

3:55

have is that mindset is just in

3:57

our mind. And

4:00

then the implication is if you find

4:02

yourself in the fixed mindset, change your

4:05

mind. And what we have seen is

4:07

that generations of teachers are being taught

4:09

mindset in their teacher training courses. And

4:12

then they say, I use growth mindset in the way that

4:14

I teach. But when you talk to

4:16

kids, you know, they are fed up with

4:19

this idea of growth mindset because it has

4:21

been really communicated to them

4:23

as something that they just need to be

4:25

all the time, right? Just be in your

4:27

growth mindset. And the second way that we

4:30

misunderstand it is that it is just all

4:32

about effort. And so these kids are being

4:34

told, try harder, try more, do more, do

4:36

it again. And

4:39

this is growth mindset, right? And so,

4:42

you know, I have been in rooms, Carol

4:44

has been in rooms where we have both been

4:46

approached by kids who say, I hate the growth

4:48

mindset. And

4:51

it is part of that idea that

4:53

we haven't really understood that mindset

4:56

exists on a continuum. It is the mindset continuum

4:58

inside each of us. And that we all have

5:00

the fixed and the growth mindset. I am in

5:02

my fixed mindset at least 25% of my day,

5:04

right? Especially

5:07

in the evening when there is a right

5:09

way to load the dishwasher with my husband

5:11

at home. And in my fixed mindset. And

5:17

so understanding that we all

5:19

have both within us and we move

5:21

between our mindsets based on situations that

5:23

are predictable and common, our interactions with

5:25

each other. And that is why the

5:28

mindset culture around us, mindset not just

5:30

in our head, but in our context

5:32

and our interactions with the people we

5:34

care for most, whether that

5:36

be our family members, whether that be

5:38

our co-workers or people at work. I

5:41

think that when you think about it that way, it feels to me

5:43

that one of the most challenging

5:45

aspects of figuring

5:48

out how to be in growth mindset is

5:51

to identify personally all the times during

5:53

a day when you flip to fixed

5:55

without even realizing it. That's right. Absolutely.

5:58

Absolutely. triggers.

6:01

These are four different situations

6:03

that we come to after analyzing

6:05

all the literature for the last 30

6:08

years and looking at the common and

6:10

predictable situations that really move us between

6:12

our fixed and our growth mindset. There's

6:14

likely many more but these are the

6:16

four where the strongest evidence exists and

6:19

in our work with people, people

6:21

at work, adults, and children, we sort of

6:23

see almost everyone can identify with at least

6:26

one or two and if you're like me

6:28

it's all four. Let's break this down for

6:30

our listeners. Start

6:33

with the first. Okay, evaluative

6:35

situations. Evaluative situations are when

6:38

I'm about to do something that I

6:40

know I will be evaluated in the

6:42

future based on my outcome

6:45

and so that could be I'm writing a presentation

6:47

that I know many people are going to view,

6:49

I'm writing a report that many people are going

6:51

to read, I'm introducing a

6:53

new idea or I'm pitching a client for

6:55

the first time. For many

6:58

people these evaluative situations trigger them into the

7:00

fixed mindset where all they want to do

7:03

is be sure that whatever they say, whatever

7:05

they write, they are seen as smart. They

7:07

are seen as having it. Through the lens

7:09

of the fixed mindset you either have it

7:12

or you don't and so it becomes very

7:14

important in these evaluative situations to be able

7:16

to pull information that's going to make me

7:18

look smart. Maybe I don't leave a lot

7:21

of room at the end for Q&A because

7:23

I don't really want people in this presentation

7:25

to question my ideas, right? And so through

7:28

the lens of the fixed mindset we pull

7:30

information differently, we present our work differently and

7:33

it really narrows us in terms of

7:35

our goals which are really performance goals

7:38

when we create these products that we are

7:40

creating. Okay, so here's the thing. I

7:43

totally see what you're saying and I'm trying

7:45

to think about then how I might do

7:47

it differently in the moment but

7:51

I'm pretty wed to what people think of

7:53

me when I'm presenting. Let's just take that

7:55

one example. And I can't

7:57

imagine right now being more flexible

8:00

in my approach. I

8:03

think that one of the things we can ask ourselves

8:05

is, how can I create this

8:07

so that I can learn the most? It

8:10

doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have to

8:12

stop thinking about the way other people are

8:14

thinking about you. But instead,

8:16

add this lens around, when

8:19

I'm making this presentation, how can I learn

8:21

the most based on what I am writing?

8:23

Or how can I learn the most when

8:25

it comes to pitching this

8:27

client? It's

8:30

a two-way street. I might leave more time

8:32

for people to ask me questions. I might

8:34

present in the work some of the challenges

8:36

we experienced and the ways we overcame it

8:39

so that later on, when we have

8:41

time to discuss the work, we

8:43

can brainstorm additional challenges we might

8:45

see down the road, which makes

8:47

the outcome better over time. So

8:50

if we can move into that learning lens, rather

8:52

than just thinking about having a spotlight on us,

8:54

which is the fixed-minded, do I have it or

8:56

do I not, it

8:58

takes the pressure off a little bit. So we've

9:00

been through that first mindset trigger. You

9:03

mentioned the success of others. Yes,

9:05

actually the fourth mindset trigger. That's right. We can

9:07

go out of order. We can. We can be

9:10

flexible here. So the success of others is

9:12

one of those triggers. It's a big one

9:14

in academia. It's the frenemy trigger, where we

9:16

are watching other people's careers. We kind of

9:19

know when this person got promoted to VP.

9:22

Maybe we thought we were going to be eligible for

9:24

a big award this year, but it turned out it

9:26

went to someone else. For many people,

9:28

those moments when other people are praised on

9:30

our team for something that we thought maybe

9:32

we should be getting a

9:34

pat on the shoulder for, those

9:38

often move us into our fixed mindset

9:40

where we start to think about it as zero sum.

9:43

If she's so good at it, maybe

9:45

it means that I'm never going to be that good

9:47

at it. Maybe it means that there's less room at

9:49

the table for me. It's

9:52

a scarcity model, right? That's right.

9:54

Exactly. Exactly. But for other people,

9:56

the success of others is really

9:58

their growth-minded trigger. they see

10:00

the success of others and they are

10:02

inspired by the success of others. And

10:05

it's one way to move from your fixed year growth

10:07

is to be able to take a step back and

10:10

think about, is there any way that I can learn?

10:12

Can I talk to them later and say, what are

10:14

the strategies you use? How did you prepare for that?

10:16

Right? Right. And

10:18

it's not that we're going to copy their

10:20

specific strategies, but we might figure out some

10:22

new things that we might be able to

10:24

apply in ways that are authentic for us

10:26

to help us grow and develop and learn

10:28

in that context while being inspired by the

10:30

success of these other people around us. I really

10:32

appreciated this when it made me think a lot

10:34

about an early mentor. I had a

10:37

woman named Diane Brady who probably listens

10:39

to the show. I hope you do,

10:41

Diane, who told me very early on,

10:43

she said, whenever anybody around

10:45

you does anything great, you be the first

10:47

person to tell them how great it is. You

10:50

show up and you celebrate their ideas. And

10:53

whenever you have an idea, you just

10:55

give it away. She just preached this

10:57

idea of generosity with

10:59

the understanding that the more

11:02

generous you are, actually, the

11:04

more generative you become and

11:06

opportunities expand. Yes. And I've

11:08

always felt that

11:10

because she laid it out there and because it's

11:12

directionally moved me, but I've never really had a

11:14

way to describe it. And it

11:17

feels very connected to this idea of success of

11:19

others. It's your growth mindset trigger. There

11:22

you go. Well, while

11:24

we're talking about growth mindset triggers,

11:26

let's talk about critical feedback. Yeah.

11:29

So critical feedback is a different

11:31

situation than evaluative situations. Now, instead

11:33

of anticipating the evaluation and preparing

11:35

the material, the feedback

11:37

has come and the response

11:39

is not so good. What

11:44

happens then? For a lot of us, this

11:46

is a very, very common fixed

11:48

mindset trigger, right? We start to see

11:50

the feedback as indicative

11:53

of us. Does this mean

11:55

that I'm a bad person? Does this mean

11:57

I'm not competent, not able, not talented, right?

12:00

And what we know is that when people are triggered

12:02

toward their fixed mindset, literally their

12:04

brain chemistry changes, right? Their

12:06

vision becomes cloudy. They literally

12:09

start to not be able

12:11

to hear things in

12:13

the same way. And so, you know, from

12:15

the perspective of a manager or supervisor, people

12:18

get frustrated when, you know, you're giving critical

12:20

feedback and it seems like the person didn't

12:22

even hear it. And the truth is that

12:24

if this is their fixed mindset trigger, they

12:26

might not have. They might not even remember

12:29

later whether there's been studies on memory. And

12:32

they might not even remember later at all

12:34

the details of that critical feedback, which is

12:36

why it's so important when we interact with

12:38

others, if you have a kid, if you

12:40

have a direct

12:42

report, who you are

12:44

giving critical feedback to, if you know this

12:47

is their fixed mindset trigger, being able to

12:49

be able to deliver this feedback in a

12:51

way that won't immediately trigger them to that

12:53

fixed mindset and turn that on and move

12:55

them even just a little bit

12:57

down that mindset continuum toward growth, it's

13:00

gonna be better for them in terms of the

13:02

receiver of that feedback. It's also gonna be better for

13:04

you, the giver of the feedback because you won't

13:06

have to continue to give that same feedback over and

13:08

over because they'll be able to receive it in

13:10

a way that they can actually use it. I

13:13

think the thing that's tough there is figuring out

13:16

both as the provider of the feedback, but also as

13:19

a recipient of feedback. And as

13:21

someone who wants to receive feedback,

13:24

how to separate the feedback from the sense

13:27

of self. And growth

13:29

mindset would posit that whatever feedback I

13:31

get is useful to me because I

13:33

already believe that I am a person

13:35

who is capable of being better in

13:37

the future than I am right now

13:39

and the feedback will get me there.

13:41

That's right, absolutely right. So I get

13:43

that in theory. But

13:46

in those vulnerable moments, when

13:50

I get, let's say the performance review from a

13:52

boss who says, you're really dropping the ball in

13:54

this one area, I don't feel

13:56

that way. Even as someone

13:58

who... aspires to a

14:00

growth mindset. Do you

14:03

have any suggestions for tools there? Yeah,

14:05

one set of tools that I think

14:07

is really useful is to actually be

14:10

able to process feedback, not alone, but

14:12

with someone else. Someone, we call it

14:14

the growth mindset culture pod. And

14:17

it's kind of built off many of these ideas

14:19

of the pods we created in the pandemic, right?

14:21

People who you trust, people

14:23

who sometimes

14:25

it's within the same organization, but sometimes it's

14:28

people outside the organization. You can have a

14:30

different perspective on things. It

14:32

can really help you process the

14:34

feedback and separate out the

14:36

stuff that's challenging and that's personal from

14:39

the stuff that's actionable and useful. There's

14:43

many examples of this, but

14:45

Bar3's CEO went

14:48

through a really big challenge with feedback.

14:50

But she was really challenged. They

14:53

did a full organizational survey,

14:56

and the feedback on her leadership

14:58

in particular was extremely negative. And

15:01

she immediately went into her fixed mindset, right? And

15:03

she thought, that's it, I'm throwing in the towel.

15:05

No more of this role for me. I'm

15:08

just gonna walk away. Which I totally get. I

15:11

immediately, I was like, yeah, absolutely. That

15:13

happens, it happens, absolutely. It's the human

15:15

response, I think many times. And

15:20

she had this group of friends from

15:22

outside the organization who were

15:24

able to sit with her after a

15:26

little cheesecake, a little wine, and

15:29

work through that feedback. Take a look at the

15:32

data. Get a sense

15:34

of what that feedback actually looked like. What

15:36

were the things that people were unhappy about

15:38

and which things were changeable and which things

15:40

were not. And she transformed

15:42

herself and she transformed

15:45

the organization. And they were one of

15:47

the most resilient organizations during the pandemic

15:49

when everything had to go online. We'll

15:54

be back with more from Dr. Mary Murphy.

15:58

Thank you. The

16:01

LinkedIn Podcast Network is sponsored by TIAA. In

16:05

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app. And

17:36

we're back. Before the

17:38

break, we heard how getting feedback from

17:41

outside your organization, it can

17:43

give you a new and helpful perspective on how you

17:45

work. It can be a real game changer. But

17:49

what does it take to give great feedback?

17:52

Once again, here's Dr. Murphy. Speak

17:56

up, raise your voice. Yeah, I need to hear your voice

17:58

more often. That's what a lot of women offer. in

18:00

here. That is feedback that is

18:02

not helpful. What is feedback that is

18:04

helpful? Well, let me

18:06

give you a concrete example and I'm

18:08

going to give you a concrete example,

18:11

not in critical feedback, but actually in

18:13

positive feedback, because we always, and the

18:15

same kind of principles apply in both.

18:18

So when we are

18:20

praising someone, what do you generally say, Jesse? Love

18:23

that. Love that. That's great.

18:25

Yep. Good work. Love it. Excellent

18:27

job. Right. This is common, right?

18:30

But does it tell you anything

18:32

about what the person did? Right?

18:35

Does it tell us anything about what they

18:37

could build on for more success in the

18:39

future? Right. Right. And so I think

18:41

there's what it does is it really

18:43

makes us feel good. And so we want to say,

18:45

you know, we want to be sure that that feedback,

18:47

whether positive or negative, is specific, it's

18:50

actionable and that those actions are

18:52

things that are doable and within

18:54

that person's sphere of influence. Right.

18:56

And if it's not in that

18:58

sphere of influence, if it's a

19:00

dependency with someone else, that we

19:02

actually give that feedback more broadly

19:04

to the whole organization or

19:06

to the whole team that really needs

19:08

to hear it, especially if it's a

19:10

group effort. The

19:13

other thing we want to be sure about

19:15

is that when we're providing that critical feedback

19:17

or the praise feedback that we are showing

19:20

people how we think they could improve and

19:22

to have that conversation together. It's not that

19:24

I have all of the strategies or the

19:27

solutions for improving it, but I want to

19:29

work with you to think through what are

19:31

some of those actionable strategies we might take

19:33

and how or what the first steps we

19:35

might be able to do and how can

19:38

I support you in doing it? A true

19:40

culture of growth is going to be one

19:42

that provides resources, strategies and supports for people

19:44

to improve and grow. And they're going to

19:46

give a lot of critical feedback. A lot

19:49

of people think these cultures of growth that

19:51

have growth mindset at the heart are just

19:53

rainbows and sunshine and endlessly affirming. And

19:56

it's absolutely the opposite. These

19:59

are rigorous. environments that are

20:01

consistently giving critical feedback because they

20:03

believe in people's abilities to grow

20:05

and improve and they're going to

20:07

give people the resources and supports

20:10

to do it. I mean

20:12

I just think about how awesome critical

20:15

feedback feels to receive when it's given

20:17

in the context of, hey Mary I

20:19

absolutely believe in you this is incredible

20:21

work and you can make it so

20:23

much better by adding this and

20:26

here's where you can go to learn how to do that. Okay

20:28

so the other side of that is receiving

20:30

critical feedback and I wanted to share one

20:32

thing that I feel like now in the

20:35

middle of my career in midlife I

20:37

am finally coming into my own realization

20:39

about and it is that feedback

20:42

is just that it is feedback

20:45

and I will receive a lot of it and it is

20:47

up to me to call through

20:49

it and determine what is

20:51

valuable and what is not. None

20:53

of it is an arbiter of truth. Absolutely,

20:56

absolutely and you know you'll receive a

20:58

lot of feedback if you've built a

21:00

culture of growth around you where people

21:02

feel safe and comfortable giving you feedback.

21:04

Right. Interestingly in a culture of genius

21:07

these fixed-minded cultures that sort of you

21:09

either have it or you don't people

21:12

are afraid to give feedback because

21:14

any sort of piece

21:16

of negative criticism or feedback

21:19

is going to be taken as a sign that you

21:21

don't have it. Right. That you're not smart, that you're

21:23

not talented, that you're not capable and

21:26

so you know we hope to be environments

21:28

where we are going to receive a lot

21:30

of critical feedback and as you say being

21:32

able to sift through it and

21:34

really find the jumps that are actionable and that are really

21:37

going to improve what you're doing

21:39

I think that's where the magic is.

21:41

Well we have one more mindset trigger

21:43

to review together and that is high-effort

21:45

situations. Yes high effort

21:48

situations these are situations

21:50

where oftentimes I'm doing something

21:52

for the first time. I might be

21:54

given a stretch assignment or I might need

21:56

to master a whole new domain in my

21:58

in my work. something I've

22:00

never had to learn before and I have to

22:02

do it quickly because there's a client, right, that's

22:04

going to show up in three days and I

22:06

need to know everything there is to know about

22:09

vacuums. Right,

22:13

in marketing you probably, in media you

22:15

understand this. Yes. And so for

22:20

a lot of people the reason

22:22

why high effort situations is a

22:24

fixed mindset trigger is because of

22:26

this correlation, this belief that we

22:28

have, this negative correlation exists

22:30

between effort and ability. If I

22:32

have to try hard it

22:35

means that I'm not naturally capable,

22:37

I'm not a natural, I'm not

22:39

just, it doesn't come easy, right?

22:42

Maybe then it's not my thing.

22:44

And so you see a lot of of

22:46

this in kids, you see a lot of

22:48

this in adults who just don't really want

22:51

to have to put in that effort because

22:53

they're taking that effort and they're seeing it

22:55

for themselves and they're thinking, wow, if I

22:57

have to work this hard, this

22:59

isn't my strength. It's like

23:01

you've been talking to my five-year-old. Yes,

23:06

yes. And this is like one of my

23:08

beefs with the strength finders work, right, is

23:10

that it really puts you

23:12

into this mindset that, you know, what we need

23:15

to do in order to be our best selves

23:17

is to just find our strengths and

23:19

double down there. Yeah. It's a really, when

23:21

you think about it, kind of a fixed-minded

23:24

approach, right? Rather than thinking about the places

23:26

we can develop and grow and kind of

23:29

challenge ourselves. Instead, let's just

23:31

find those narrow places of our strengths and

23:33

let's like find the work that only fits

23:35

that. Right. So there's one other

23:38

piece that I really want to talk to you about

23:40

and it's this idea of culture and

23:44

how we can exist within cultures that

23:46

foster a growth mindset. And

23:48

in fact, that is one way that

23:50

we ourselves foster a growth mindset in

23:52

ourselves as we place ourselves in learning

23:54

cultures. Yes. How do we begin to

23:56

even understand if the environment that we've

23:58

landed in is a... is

24:00

a growth mindset environment? Yeah, well, we

24:02

can look at a lot of cues

24:05

in our environments. We can

24:07

look at how decisions are made, for example.

24:10

In a fixed-minded culture of genius, there

24:12

is often a genius at the helm. And

24:15

the best ideas come from that particular

24:17

mind or set of minds of the

24:20

crown geniuses. And everybody's job

24:22

is to sort of identify what those

24:24

decisions are and then execute on

24:27

those decisions. We

24:29

see that this is risky for many reasons.

24:32

You can think of the culture of

24:35

genius, organizations, Theranos, WeWork, Uber, right? I

24:37

was gonna say all of those companies

24:39

are companies that as a business journalist

24:41

I wrote a lot about.

24:44

And you give a great example of

24:46

something that happened at Uber that illustrated

24:49

a sort of genius mindset

24:51

culture, right? When Susan Fowler

24:53

had raised her complaint about

24:55

sexual harassment in the company's

24:58

response, implicitly it was like,

25:00

well, that person's too important to even go into

25:02

this, right? He's a genius, we can't. And

25:04

by the way, those geniuses always kind of

25:06

look the same. Yeah, well, that's the other

25:08

problem of a culture of genius. Yeah, very

25:11

much so. I'm

25:14

interested in both how you identify

25:16

those cultures, but then how those

25:18

cultures themselves can sort of shift

25:20

and change. Yes, absolutely. So

25:23

we'll go back to how do we identify

25:25

them. So decision-making is one of those places

25:27

where you see really big differences between a

25:29

culture of genius and a culture of growth.

25:32

In a culture of growth, good ideas come

25:34

from everywhere. And there

25:36

are structures in place to

25:38

get great ideas and important

25:40

information from frontline workers and

25:43

lifted all the way up into management

25:45

and higher level executives who can actually

25:47

change the organization for good. And

25:50

we've seen this in many of the companies

25:52

I've worked with where safety was the number

25:54

one priority and it was the frontline workers

25:56

when they changed the culture, started to talk

25:58

about this growth mindset. culture and trying

26:01

to be vigilant for ways to

26:03

improve, particularly around safety. And

26:06

it really changed the course of

26:08

these organizations over time. I

26:10

think that another way to

26:13

tell about fixed and growth

26:15

mindset culture is really the extent to

26:17

which the teams and

26:19

organization are built teams or bought

26:21

teams. In a culture of genius,

26:23

we have bought teams. We are

26:25

looking externally who are the most talented

26:28

people we can bring in and put

26:30

in these high level positions because we

26:32

think that genius is fixed and we

26:34

have to go find it and promote

26:36

it. In organizations that

26:38

are true cultures of growth, you

26:40

see much more of that built

26:43

team environment, that we are going

26:45

to invest and develop our own

26:47

people and we're going to promote

26:49

them within for the journey that

26:51

they've taken, for that growth and

26:53

development. And we find over

26:55

time that this is the way to success

26:57

for most organizations, that for

27:00

the long term you can be much more

27:02

successful in these cultures of growth and in

27:04

these six-minded cultures of genius. One

27:06

other thing I wanted to talk about. So

27:09

much of your book is an

27:11

invitation for people to think about

27:14

where they value and spot

27:17

genius and opportunity.

27:20

And to look beyond the sort of pro

27:23

forma white male genius and see

27:25

the potential for genius everywhere. We're

27:28

living in a moment where DEI initiatives

27:31

have fallen out of fashion, where there

27:33

is a chilling effect in the climate

27:35

as a result of the Supreme Court's

27:38

decisions last year. And

27:40

I suspect that this moment will

27:42

continue. And against

27:44

that backdrop, how do

27:47

you see the opportunity for this kind of

27:49

work to bring more equity into our organizations?

27:51

I love this question. Thank you for giving me the

27:54

opportunity to talk about it. So

27:57

we find in our research now more

27:59

than 20 years of research on

28:01

fixed and growth mindset cultures, that

28:05

these cultures of growth are

28:07

just more naturally diverse. Why is that?

28:09

Well, if you Google genius and you

28:11

go to Google images, who are

28:14

we going to see, Jessie? Albert

28:16

Einstein. Albert Einstein, all over the

28:18

pages. You might see Steve Jobs.

28:21

You might see Elon Musk. You

28:24

might see Bill Gates. Exactly.

28:28

Who do you not see, right? Women,

28:30

people of color, LGBTQIA

28:32

people, we don't see people

28:34

with disabilities, right? And

28:37

so what happens is in these

28:39

cultures of genius that are looking

28:41

to recruit and retain and promote

28:44

genius, they're looking through

28:46

the lens of that really narrow

28:48

cultural prototype. And

28:50

it means that these organizations

28:52

often miss hidden talent

28:54

in terms of their recruitment. But

28:57

when it comes to also, if they

28:59

have diversity within their ranks, they're more

29:01

likely to overlook their achievements because they

29:04

don't fit in that narrow prototype of

29:06

what a genius looks like. And in

29:08

fact, people who have come up against

29:11

hardships, people who have actually been left

29:13

to the side and thought

29:16

of as not necessarily

29:18

talented their whole lives that aren't

29:20

always given the benefit of the

29:22

doubt, these are individuals who

29:24

by necessity have had to persist through these

29:27

kinds of challenges. And so when we look

29:29

in the culture of growth at things like

29:31

the journey traveled, the distance traveled, as one

29:33

of the characteristics that matters because we know

29:36

the distance traveled is likely to predict the

29:38

distance people are going to go in the

29:40

future. So these cultures of

29:42

growth are places where diversity, equity,

29:45

and inclusion thrive. And

29:47

equity in particular because equity pays

29:49

attention to difference. Equity

29:52

is going to really take a

29:54

look at what people's needs are in the

29:56

moment. And then a culture of growth is

29:58

going to provide for those. needs,

30:00

give strategies, tools, resources,

30:03

mentors, sponsors, and support

30:06

so that people who have different kinds

30:08

of needs based on their background and

30:10

based on their history, that they

30:13

can be successful in these places. And you

30:15

see in our

30:17

analysis of the Fortune 1000, we

30:19

found that strong cultures

30:22

of growth had more diverse

30:24

boards and they had more women

30:26

on their board, but their boards were not larger.

30:28

So they were not doing that tack on diversity

30:30

that you oftentimes see when it's suddenly, oh

30:32

my gosh, we realize we're a bunch of

30:34

white guys and we need

30:37

some diversity here, right? And so you see

30:39

that very differently in the culture of genius

30:41

and the culture of growth. It's one of

30:43

the places where I think cultures of growth

30:45

really have the edge. That

30:51

was Dr. Mary Murphy, author of Cultures of

30:53

Growth. Now this

30:56

episode really got me thinking about a

30:58

lot of things. Like there's some pretty

31:00

pragmatic advice embedded in here. Like

31:02

first, who is your growth

31:05

mindset culture pod? Mary

31:07

describes this as people outside of

31:09

wherever you work, who you

31:11

can trust to give you unbiased feedback on

31:14

your own performance. This makes me think of

31:16

the people in my own life who can

31:18

tell me the things about myself that my

31:20

colleagues either just don't know or won't say.

31:24

Second, give pointed

31:26

unambiguous feedback. This

31:28

is an important one. Too often our biases

31:31

and our hunches get in the way of

31:33

being able to be helpful. If

31:35

we want the recipient to learn from

31:37

our notes, it's crucial to be

31:39

very specific. This goes for positive

31:42

feedback too. Give credit specifically

31:44

where it's due. Last,

31:47

spot the difference between a culture

31:49

of growth and a culture of

31:51

genius. Where in your own

31:53

workplace do you feel that people are empowered to

31:55

learn? Where do you

31:57

notice people shift into a more fixed

31:59

mindset? Noticing these shifts can

32:01

help us identify where we need to come

32:04

up with better strategies. Now,

32:11

we'll be talking about all of this at Office

32:13

Hours this week. I really hope you'll come. As

32:16

usual, our producer, Sarah Storm, and I

32:18

will go live on Wednesday afternoon at

32:20

3 p.m. Eastern from the

32:22

LinkedIn News page. Now, if

32:25

you have trouble finding us, you

32:27

can always email us at hellomondayatlinkedin.com,

32:29

and we'll send you a link. It even

32:31

allows you to create a calendar invite so

32:33

you don't miss us. Hope

32:36

to see you. Hello

32:41

Monday is a production of LinkedIn News. Sarah

32:43

Storm produced this episode with help from

32:46

Lolia Briggs. It's sound-designed and

32:48

engineered by a soft drone. Our

32:51

theme music was composed just for us

32:53

by the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder. Our

32:55

contributor, Michaela Greer, helps build our culture

32:57

of growth. Enrique Montavo is

33:00

our executive producer. Dave Pond

33:02

is head of news production. Courtney

33:04

Coop is head of original programming. Dan

33:06

Roth is the editor-in-chief of LinkedIn. I'm

33:10

Jessi Hempel. We'll be back next Monday.

33:12

Thanks for listening. Oh my goodness. I'm

33:15

so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm

33:17

so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so

33:19

sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

33:22

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm

33:24

so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so

33:26

sorry. I'm so sorry. Oh

33:28

my goodness. What is today's date? March

33:31

11th. And she strikes out

33:34

before we begin.