0:01

This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening

0:03

to Here's the thing. We can

0:07

never know about

0:10

the days to come, but

0:16

let me think about them anyway.

0:23

I don't wonder if

0:27

I'm really with you

0:29

now or

0:33

just chase after

0:35

song. Fine day

0:44

and it's Abasia

0:49

and it's Abasaition

0:52

is Megan. It's

0:55

hard, if not impossible, to

0:58

imagine the nineteen seventies without

1:00

musician Carly Simon. She

1:02

gained near instant fame after

1:05

opening for Cat Stevens at l A's

1:07

Troubadour in nine. Within

1:10

a year, she would make a chart topping

1:12

album, win a Grammy, and

1:14

marry singer James Taylor. Her

1:17

music spoke to the openness of her

1:19

generation and earned her critical

1:21

acclaim worldwide. In

1:24

hits like Yours Sylvain, Carly Simon

1:26

exuded fearlessness poise,

1:29

but backstage she was grasping for

1:31

both. She disliked the spotlight

1:34

and had to will herself out of a case of

1:36

stage fright to continue performing.

1:39

When Carly Simon started out, she

1:41

never planned on performing. When

1:43

I started recording, that was all I was

1:46

going to do. I wasn't going to get out on

1:48

stage and do anything on stage.

1:50

I wanted to make demos for

1:52

other people to record my songs. So

1:55

I recorded, hoping that Dion

1:58

Warwick would record one, hoping that Judie

2:00

Collins would record. So just I just

2:02

made a glorified demo. Turned

2:05

out to be so glorified that that we had

2:07

string players and we had arrangements,

2:10

and things got more and more became

2:13

something that a record company wanted. So

2:16

Electric Records signed me, and that was Jack

2:18

Holsman, who was the head of Electra at that time.

2:24

Well, yes, and what was the

2:26

song you were trying to demo that Jack Holdsman

2:28

said, let's put this out with you singing. What was that

2:30

song? Well, the first demo I made in a studio

2:33

had five songs, which

2:36

was just me and guitar and another

2:38

cat named Dave Bromberg on on a

2:40

guitar. Five songs, two of

2:43

which I think made it to the next demo.

2:45

There was a song called a Loan which I wrote

2:47

on the beach and Martha's Vineyard about being alone

2:50

and romantic and

2:52

happy, and and there was another song

2:54

called I'm all it takes to make

2:56

You happy. There's happy songs. Then

2:59

there was a song that I wrote with Jake Brackman called,

3:01

that's the way I've always heard it should be, and

3:03

that song I played on piano, and

3:06

that that got to the next demo, and Jack

3:08

Holsman heard that. Clive Davis heard

3:10

it first, and as did a bunch of

3:12

other people. And they heard my first demo, and

3:14

they didn't know what to make of me. They didn't know if I was a

3:17

jazz singer, a blues singer,

3:19

a rock and roll singer, a

3:22

theater singer, a cabaret

3:24

singer. They didn't They didn't know what to how how

3:26

to apply me to

3:29

the merchandizing scheme. Did you try to suggest

3:32

to them what kind of singer you were? No, because

3:34

I didn't. I didn't fit my own self

3:36

into a category. I had imitated

3:39

a whole lot of people, and I

3:41

had developed my own voice, but with so many

3:44

influences that I hadn't I hadn't

3:46

cut myself off from my influences

3:48

and made a whole me. The

3:51

umbilical cord was still attached to Odetta,

3:54

was still attached to Annie Ross of Memberson

3:56

Wis, and Ross still attached to Pete

3:59

Seeger. To the various influences

4:02

I mean, I still have trouble with that. People

4:05

say that the reason that I haven't been inducted

4:08

into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is

4:10

that they don't is that I'm not really a rock

4:12

and roll singer or that, or that

4:15

I sort of go in a lot of different

4:17

directions. I've made four albums of standards

4:20

for example, which I didn't you know, which I didn't

4:22

write, which were written by Cole Porter and George

4:24

Hirshwin and Rogerson Hard and the

4:26

great, the great people who could write great

4:28

songs for singers because they

4:30

weren't one and the same in that period. But

4:33

what's interesting to me is that when you are

4:37

years old, that's the way it always

4:39

should be. Is

4:42

your first song that's a hit song?

4:44

Yes, and you wrote that with Jake. And

4:47

I want to explain to people because everybody, I

4:49

mean many people know Jake Brackman as

4:51

a famous songwriter and partner

4:53

reviewers. Where did you meet him?

4:56

I met Jake at summer camp.

4:58

We were both counselors at

5:00

Indian Hill Camp in the Berkshires, and

5:03

Jake was the um, the swimming

5:05

counselor, and he also taught literature.

5:08

These were very lardy kids, and

5:10

I was the guitar teacher, all all the kids

5:12

met me for the first time. They had known each other from

5:14

the summer before. Jake wasn't there yet

5:16

because he had hepatitis and was in the hospital.

5:19

But they said, oh wait till you meet Jake,

5:21

you'll be you'll just fall in love with each

5:24

other or be friends for the rest of your life. I

5:26

don't think anybody had ever ever quite

5:28

introduced me to somebody before I

5:31

actually met them with those terms that they

5:33

would be lifelong friends. And

5:35

the day that he got there, they prepared to cook out,

5:37

the campers did, and they said, now we want

5:40

you to come down to the cookout, and Jake

5:42

will come down to the cookout, and you'll stand opposite

5:44

each other, but with with your backs to each

5:46

other, and at the count of three, you'll

5:49

turn toward each other and you'll

5:52

see what we mean about

5:55

that, your two halves of one person. And

5:58

so it was one too three. We

6:00

turned across this fire which was raging

6:03

between us, and we both smiled

6:05

and we recognized each other in

6:08

ourselves and vice versa, and it was quite

6:10

amazing. And Jake just dropped me off here

6:12

today. What was it about him?

6:15

Was he writing? Songs and was he he was a musician

6:18

and into songwriting, and no Jake was

6:20

at that point he had just graduated

6:22

from Harvard. He was the editor

6:24

of The Crimson and he went in he was

6:26

writing for Newsweek magazine. He was writing for

6:29

Talk of the Town, and he

6:31

was he was the young writer on the

6:33

scene. He was the young prose writer on

6:35

the scene when we started writing

6:37

songs together. He then also got into to

6:40

working with Terence Malock and

6:42

he worked on Days of Heaven

6:45

and on bad Lands, and

6:47

he wrote King of Marvin Gardens with

6:49

Jack with Jack Nicholson in that,

6:52

and so he's he's a man of all

6:54

words, most of them quite

6:56

quite funny. He's an unusual

6:59

beyond journalism in screenwriting. He was a lyrict

7:01

as he was writing lyrics. He had never written lyrics

7:04

before. But I had this melody Da

7:06

da Da Da Da Da Da Da da da

7:09

and the whole song because I've written

7:12

that for for an NBC special

7:14

called Who Killed Lake Erie. That

7:16

was the background music for that. So

7:19

when I was going to make this demo, I

7:21

couldn't get lyrics for it because if I write a melody

7:24

first, I can't seem to find lyrics

7:26

to it. It's got to be the other way around. I write lyrics

7:28

first, and so I

7:31

had this melody and Jake was by then

7:33

my best friend, and I said, do you want

7:35

to try to write a lyric? So I

7:37

gave him on a little cassette. I gave him

7:39

that melody, and he came back a

7:42

day or two later with with a full lyric

7:44

except for one verse, which we edited out. My

7:47

friends from college. There

7:49

all they

7:53

have their houses, and

7:56

there they

8:01

have their silent news,

8:03

tears, angry

8:14

their children hate them for

8:17

the things they're not. They

8:21

hate themselves, Oh

8:23

what they and

8:29

yet they drink, they laugh, Close

8:32

the wound, hide the

8:34

sky the

8:39

lyrics because they're very pungent

8:41

lyrics in that song. They hate themselves

8:44

for what they are. Who

8:46

is he talking about? Well, his girlfriend

8:48

was just about to move in with him. Jake

8:51

and I lived apart, will live one block away

8:53

from each other, but we shared each

8:55

other's lives and our friends were each other's

8:57

friends, and I met most of the people

9:00

that I know today through through Jake or vice

9:02

versa. So his girlfriend,

9:04

Rickie was just about to move in with him, and he

9:07

realized that she was going to be moving into his rooms.

9:10

And that's an invasion

9:12

of territory for certain people.

9:15

And it, I mean, it means a whole lot.

9:17

It means not only are you going to be in my rooms,

9:19

but you're I'm not going to be able to get you out

9:21

of my rooms if you're living with me. So

9:24

from Jake's point of view, that that song

9:27

was, you know, are

9:29

we going to marry? Are we not going to marry?

9:32

And we had talked a lot about marriage and

9:34

a lot about the fact that being

9:37

in love with somebody, living with somebody didn't

9:39

necessarily indicate that

9:41

you had to get married, as

9:43

it had a situation for our

9:45

years. We're different,

9:48

Um what what? What? What? What situation

9:50

of yours? Were you referring the

9:53

men in your life? Every man that I was,

9:55

that I was with, I felt I

9:57

had to marry if I was going to sleep

10:00

at them, or if I was going to have sex with him in any way,

10:02

I felt as if I as if I had to marry them

10:04

and have children. And

10:08

so times were changing, and

10:10

this was this was a very different era that Kennedy

10:13

years were upon us and the hippie

10:16

dom, the Woodstock

10:18

era. The times were hugely

10:20

changing. I mean, I didn't didn't necessarily

10:23

have to marry the person that you were living with

10:25

and raise a family of our own,

10:28

you and me. Um,

10:30

that's the way they I've always heard

10:32

it should be you want to marry me, and

10:34

then oh, will marry you,

10:36

but resignation with resignation

10:39

exactly. And so that's

10:41

how the song really came to life. Was about

10:44

the disillusionment of my parents marriage,

10:47

which was about walking home

10:49

at night and tiptoeing by

10:52

my mother's bedroom and she

10:54

she calls out, sweet dreams, but I forget

10:56

how to dream. And my father

10:58

sitting in the the room with his cigarette,

11:01

cigarette glows in the dark. And

11:04

so it's it's it's all about the

11:06

separation of the people who are

11:09

supposed to be married or supposed to live

11:11

in one happy house together, really

11:13

not happy in living in that house.

11:16

Now that affects you when you see them.

11:18

You wrote a book, and a lot of it includes some

11:20

of your childhood and your marriage and everything. You

11:23

know, you're both your marriages and you I

11:25

think your book only goes up through your first marriage. But

11:27

the idea being that you know, what do you

11:30

leave in and what do you leave out? Well,

11:32

you know this was very

11:34

important. When I first got asked to write

11:37

my memoir was six

11:40

and I was and I was called on the phone by

11:42

Jacqueline Onassis and she said,

11:44

Carle Carling, you

11:47

would make a wonderful writer

11:49

of a memoir. And so that's

11:51

how I started, and I wrote about sixty

11:54

pages at that point, and realizing

11:56

that I was leaving out the very nucleus

11:58

of the story, which was about my parents and their

12:01

marriage and the

12:03

the thing that happened to their marriage, which was

12:05

that which was the great divide of having

12:08

my brother's tutor come to

12:10

live with us, and he and my

12:12

mother fell in love, and that was a separate relationship

12:14

which existed in the same house that

12:17

she lived in with my father and us and

12:19

and all and all of the kids. So

12:22

trying to leave that out was almost

12:24

impossible when that formed the very essence

12:26

of me that I was trying to write about in

12:29

the first place. Everything was a lie. Everything

12:33

that I saw as the truth I

12:35

was denied the veracity

12:37

of. And so when I said,

12:40

well, Mom and Dad are still in love, aren't

12:42

they, to my older sisters that say, yes, they

12:44

are. They're very much in love. And then I would ask my

12:46

mother and father. You know, you

12:48

don't ever kiss? Can I see you kiss? And

12:51

my father would bend my mother down in a

12:54

theatrical kind of

12:55

bogus kiss

12:58

and looked strange to

13:00

me. There was something very awful about it. But

13:03

I was supposed to believe that they were in love. They

13:05

would perform for you, tend

13:08

to mollify you well once and

13:10

then she was off with what

13:13

was what was his name, Ronnie? Where

13:15

was Ronnie from? Ronnie was a

13:18

teacher or he was going to teaching

13:20

school at Columbia at the time.

13:23

He was nineteen and she was forty two.

13:25

And where was he from? Ronnie? He was from Pittsburgh,

13:28

Ronnie from Pittsburgh, and

13:31

they were they were in love for many years. It

13:34

killed my father a combination of that

13:36

relationship that she had with Ronnie

13:39

and the fact of his relationship

13:42

at Simon and Schuster, where he

13:44

he started to do things in

13:46

a in a way that the accountant

13:49

who they had brought on board in the company, this

13:51

guy named Leon Schuster, didn't want

13:53

him to do. And so therefore my father, at

13:56

the same time as as he became sort

13:58

of sick with grief over or his relationship

14:00

with my mother. He got more and more

14:03

out of the loop at Simon and Schuster, and they

14:05

sort of tried to move him up or

14:07

out of the mainstream with

14:09

Max and Leon and

14:11

and that kind of killed him all further.

14:13

And then he drank too much, too

14:16

much, he ate too much ice cream and smoked

14:18

too many cigarettes, and that made him ill. And

14:20

so it was a perfect storm and he got

14:22

and he died at the age of sixty. Now

14:25

signed for people who don't know the Simon

14:28

and Simon and Schuster was your father and company.

14:31

Yes, at the met Max

14:34

Schuster, his old college friend from

14:36

Columbia. They met they were both

14:38

selling pianos at Steinway,

14:41

I guess at Steinwan soon and they said,

14:43

let's let's go out to lunch and let's let's

14:46

go into business together. Oh what shall

14:48

we do? What about books?

14:51

And so they made a little sign

14:53

which they put on the office at the office

14:55

space that they had rented, saying Simon and

14:57

Schuster publisher what

14:59

book? And the first book that they

15:01

published was the Crossword Puzzle Book, which

15:04

made them a fortune and which started them

15:06

off with great footing, with good

15:08

footing, great speed, opportunities

15:11

to galore, and they were the

15:14

very center of the

15:16

publishing world. And yes,

15:19

yes, and your mother where My mother was

15:21

from Germantown, Pennsylvania.

15:24

Her mother, she by, was Cuban

15:27

and came to the United States on a banana

15:30

boat. She was Cuban,

15:32

but she was from Africa, but her

15:35

grandmother had spent some time in Cuba. I

15:37

have the whole lineup. Are your part black or

15:39

you part of Cuban or both? I'm

15:43

black. Yeah, she's

15:45

an African Africa. Yes, your

15:48

maternal grandmother. Yes,

15:51

and she was African and went to Cuba.

15:53

That's right, that's right. And

15:55

then she was schooled in England, and so she

15:58

spoke with an English accent and she was shamed

16:00

of what she probably didn't even know

16:02

she was, but she bleached her skin her

16:05

whole life, and so she passed as white. But

16:08

she spoke with an English accent. And we used

16:10

to always ask her about what her background

16:12

was, and she would say, when I die,

16:15

you will find nothing but nothing.

16:17

And I never talked about the past. So

16:20

we weren't able to get very much out of mother.

16:22

Yes, we weren't able to get anything out of her, but

16:24

she was such a character. Did your mother have a career?

16:28

My mother did not have an official

16:30

career. Now, she was a singer, but she

16:32

and she was a wonderful singer, but she her

16:34

career was raising her four kids.

16:38

In your home and your father from a young age

16:40

becomes a very successful uh

16:42

publisher in the name, is really

16:45

a pianist. In fact, when he when

16:47

he had a bunch of heart attacks

16:49

and strokes towards the end of his life and he didn't

16:52

have his mind and he didn't have the capacity

16:54

of the full fullness of his mind, he

16:57

always thought he was going to Carnie Hall, when

16:59

in fact he was just going downtown to

17:01

dinner with my mother. And you'd say, Sis,

17:03

you forgot to get off at fifty seven Street. I'm

17:06

gonna be late. Because he always thought

17:08

he was going to be playing it. He didn't always think, but

17:10

once in a while he had the fantasy that he was going to

17:12

be playing at Carney Hall. He was a great pianist.

17:16

Yes, so music in your

17:18

home is classical music

17:21

on the part of my father and a circle of

17:24

people coming in and out of your home who were celebrities.

17:26

And I have two uncles,

17:28

one on my father's side and one on my mother's

17:30

side, started jazz magazines, one

17:33

downbeat and the other metronome.

17:36

So they were very good friends and they and they

17:38

had all the drummers and the jazz

17:41

players in this house that we lived

17:43

on the eleventh Street, so

17:46

there was music from from the jazz

17:49

era. And then my mother always sang

17:52

the show tunes because this was the great era

17:54

of of Oklahoma. And Carouse

17:56

and Porgy

17:59

and Bess was actually for formed for my mother

18:01

and father first by George

18:03

and Ira Gersh when they came over to our

18:05

house and my mother was asked to sing summertime

18:07

since she had a beautiful soprano voice, for them

18:09

to see how it would sound in the

18:12

soprano voice, or to see what it's it's. I don't

18:14

know exactly what they went over there for, but my mother

18:16

ended up singing soprano and on summertime,

18:19

and my father ended up ended up correcting

18:21

a couple of her notes, and that embarrassed

18:24

her tremendously, and she always used

18:26

that as the excuse as to why she had an affair

18:28

and cuckold at him

18:30

one of them. Yes, yes, now,

18:33

now your brother, you've got two sisters.

18:36

What did your brother end up doing for a little my brother

18:38

is a photographer, very well known photographer

18:41

in his field. He's got a bunch of books out.

18:43

And he started by touring

18:45

with Bob Marley, and he toured

18:47

with a grateful Dad, taking all of their

18:50

their pictures. And then then

18:52

he's um oh, and then here

18:54

he was the Mets. He was the official Mets photographer.

18:58

And he's he's done a wide

19:00

varieties. Is an excellent photographer.

19:02

And your sisters, My sisters are both musicians,

19:05

Myers. My eldest

19:07

sister, Joanna

19:09

was was an opera singer of some

19:12

merit and quite a lot of class

19:15

and finesse and stature, those

19:18

four things. And she was very good.

19:20

Besides, and she she was

19:22

a soloist with a lot of different

19:24

conductors, Eugene Ormandy and

19:27

and and

19:29

she was in New Yorker, or she was with Ormandy in Philadelphia.

19:32

She well, she sang with orchestras

19:34

all over the world. Yes, she sang with subin

19:36

Mayta and shared of time. So you and your sister played

19:38

together. Correct. My sister Lucy, now

19:41

she hasn't been mentioned yet. She is the

19:43

middle sister, and she um

19:46

she is a

19:48

composer of music for the Broadway Theater

19:50

she wrote The Secret Garden. So

19:53

you and Lucy used to perform to Lucy

19:55

and I were saying, as the Simon and sisters, Yes,

19:59

where you and what do you wish?

20:01

They asked the three when

20:04

we're going up fishing for her and fish

20:07

they live in the beautiful sea that's

20:09

of silber, and go that we

20:11

said we can? And Lincoln and

20:15

and was that around the time that you were in your mid twenties,

20:17

when we were about to break out with your It was? It

20:20

was when earlier? It was when I was in college.

20:23

Where'd you go? I went to Sarah Lawrence? Of

20:25

course you know why there's

20:27

a joke and the and the and and you were singing

20:30

with her in what clubs in Manhattan? We

20:32

decided one summer she she had learned

20:34

some chords on the guitar, and

20:37

um, we only had

20:39

one guitar. But we wanted to spend the summer. We

20:41

wanted to go up to the Cape for the summer.

20:43

So we hitched up to the cape. Was the

20:45

Cape always a part of your childhood? Was that the Simon

20:47

family, Yes, it was a part of your child martha S

20:50

vineyard was, and so we

20:52

we basically hitchhike up to

20:54

the cape with one guitar, and

20:57

and and went to Provincetown

20:59

and we got a job there and we had to learn immediately

21:01

some more chords on the guitar. But

21:04

we kept on switching around guitars and we played

21:06

things like the Banana Boat song,

21:08

which we didn't know that my grandmother had any any

21:10

any part of being a part of at that

21:12

point. But we sang other Harry

21:14

Belafonde songs too, and we sang

21:17

folk songs. We sang some Joan Bayaz,

21:20

but we expanded our repertoire that

21:24

oh yes, yes, definitely, and we built

21:26

the ship Titanic. When

21:28

does it change? And when? Because when I

21:30

think of you, just not only in your work, the

21:33

quality of your work, the beauty

21:35

of your work, the range of your

21:37

work, the songs in terms of them, some being

21:39

fun and playful and something really sad. All

21:42

of a sudden you go from being this

21:45

child of privilege in Manhattan and you're

21:47

in this famous family and everything, then all of

21:49

a sudden you become a big star. Was

21:52

that difficult for you? It was? It

21:54

was difficult on many levels. It

21:56

was difficult because, um,

21:59

it was actually the summer that Lucy

22:01

and I played in London. It was and

22:04

it was the summer of the Beatles, and it was the

22:06

summer of the King's

22:09

Road, and it was such a great time.

22:12

And I fell in love with an englishman who

22:14

was sort of a manager and a mentor,

22:17

and Lucy fell in love with

22:19

with a man that she was seeing, a

22:21

doctor who she was seeing back here. And when

22:24

we we we had a kind of a falling

22:26

out over Sean Connery,

22:28

actually, which is in my book. We

22:31

imagined ourselves to be sort of vying

22:33

for his attention in some quirky way. It

22:35

went around to that. And when we got

22:37

back to the United States after that summer

22:40

of sixty five, we stopped

22:42

singing together. Whether it was because

22:44

of that rift over Sean

22:47

Conner over Sean, or whether double

22:50

a seven, or whether it was the fact that Lucy

22:53

was was in love with her husband

22:56

who's still her husband, David, we

22:58

kind of went our own separate ways, and and I

23:00

got courted by Albert Grossman

23:02

and John Court, who who were Dylan's

23:05

managers, and they

23:07

called me over to gross Court. Was that

23:10

period the day before Bob

23:12

Dylan's motorcycle accident.

23:14

I met with him with Bob Dylan,

23:17

and he rewrote a song for me that was

23:20

uh An Eric von Schmidt's

23:22

song called Baby let Me Follow You Down, and

23:25

he rewrote it for me, and as he was

23:27

rewriting the words, he just he was very

23:29

high. This was the cause of his accident.

23:31

I don't think it's any secret is that he was

23:34

really going nuts with drugs at

23:36

that point. But he stretched out

23:38

his arms like this, like that and say,

23:40

just believe me, believe me, you

23:43

gotta go to Nashville, go to Nashville

23:45

and do your record there. And then the

23:47

next day he was in then even

23:49

back then, Yeah, this was just I guess after

23:52

was that after Nashville Skyline. No, it

23:54

couldn't have been. No, no, but he had just done

23:57

some some recording in Nashville,

23:59

and he thought that is the place that I should record

24:01

my record. But because he was just getting together

24:03

with the band at that point, so

24:06

and I and I was getting together with Robbie

24:08

Robertson to go into the studio

24:11

and do some work with

24:14

that song that Bob Dylan had written for

24:16

me, as well as um a

24:19

song called just Because

24:21

I asked a friend about her.

24:24

George Jones song, is it he

24:27

she thinks I still care

24:30

or he thinks I still care in that in the case

24:32

of me and so Um,

24:34

I worked. I worked with Robbie for for

24:37

for that week, went into the studio, had

24:39

a bad couch experience

24:41

with the with the engineer

24:44

who put the song in the wrong key for me. I

24:47

sang it and what was supposed to come

24:49

out as what does bad couch experience?

24:52

It means you know the Hollywood couch experience

24:55

to couch you, Well, yes, I wouldn't. I

24:57

wouldn't be used

25:00

be couched. I refused to be couched, and so

25:03

they kind of sabotaged. I felt

25:05

that record in response to

25:07

your anti couching policy

25:10

because I got up from the couch and I said,

25:12

I am not that green, not

25:14

knowing what I amanned at all, but I

25:16

thought green was a good color to say. I wasn't. So

25:21

you feel that he might have been some

25:23

malicious tinkering with the

25:25

song, Well, yes, And I was shelved

25:27

at Columbia because that was the label I was

25:29

going to be on. This was six, So

25:33

I was shelved for three years,

25:35

at which point I became a fat secretary.

25:38

What does that mean? I worked for a television

25:41

production company and

25:43

where it was called

25:45

Canean Productions in New York, where

25:48

was their offices on Street

25:50

near CBS West Way West. And

25:53

and you you did that for how long? A

25:56

year? Not three years? A year? Yes,

25:59

but I was fat for three years. Now for you, what's

26:01

fat? You're like ten pounds overweight? No, I don't.

26:03

I would think. I waited about hundred

26:05

sixty. And you got there

26:07

was a result of what There was

26:09

this thing that was advertised as milkshakes,

26:12

and they were to be bought at this place on forty

26:15

fifth Street, and they

26:17

were advertised and they were the

26:19

most delicious things you'd ever tasted. But it

26:21

promised that there were only forty seven calories,

26:24

but and that they were all really ice, that what

26:26

you were eating was ice. I

26:29

don't remember. I don't remember, but

26:31

but the lines were

26:33

around the block. It was it

26:35

was a sham at any rate, and were

26:38

eating this beverage thinking that I was gonna

26:40

I was losing weight. I was eating them.

26:42

Were stashed

26:46

them in the freezer and eat them for weeks and

26:48

gain weight and more weight and more weight. Well,

26:51

I met Jake around that time too. At

26:53

the end of that the end of that period. During

26:56

that period of working

26:58

for Cane and Productions is when I I

27:00

started working for their TV

27:02

show called from the Bitter End. And

27:05

I was the talent, yes, but

27:07

it was a TV show that was based on the Bitter End,

27:09

and so they had performers such as Marvin Gay

27:11

and and they had

27:13

come they had the same type of performers that

27:15

would be at the actual Bitter End, and

27:18

and I was I was the person who

27:20

would take them tea and would see that they were

27:23

they were happy and happily ensconced

27:25

in their dressing room. When when the song

27:27

with Jake, That's the way I always heard

27:29

it to be came out was what year and

27:33

what happens? You become

27:35

famous, you become successful? Well, all

27:37

right, So then I made my first album,

27:39

which which I thought was going to be a

27:42

collection of demos, and

27:44

that's the way I've always heard it should be. Was on that record.

27:47

Jack Holsman thought it could be you

27:49

know, it could if I promoted this record,

27:52

it could possibly be something, and

27:54

he asked me to perform. And I was asked

27:56

actually on the basis of the album

27:58

to open up for Cats Evens at the Troubadour.

28:02

This was just

28:04

after the record had come out, which was the end

28:06

of seventy and so

28:08

I said, oh, no, no, no, you know, I don't do that kind

28:10

of thing. I just um,

28:13

I I was this, this

28:16

album is just for other other singers

28:18

to hear and hopefully pick

28:20

out a song for them. But Jack

28:22

Holsman and Steve Harris, the A and R

28:24

man at Electra were persistent and they said,

28:27

well, what would it take to get you to

28:29

perform with Cat Stevens to

28:31

open for Cat Stevens? Who's who who has

28:33

asked for you to open his act? And

28:36

and I was thinking on my

28:38

feet and I and I've been reading Rolling Stone,

28:40

and I followed James Taylor's career. I didn't

28:42

know him, but I was following his career because I thought

28:45

he was absolutely totally great,

28:47

and I knew that he was on the road, and so I

28:50

also knew his whole band. And I said, okay,

28:52

get me Russ Kunkle as a drummer, because

28:54

I knew Russ was on the road with James. And

28:57

so the next day, It's amazing

28:59

how how things work. Stars are

29:01

aligned. The next day I got a call from Jack

29:04

Holsman saying, okay, well,

29:06

Kuncle's available when to rehearsal start?

29:09

And I said, what do you mean Uncle's available? I

29:11

said, well, James was just in an accident, in

29:13

a motorcycle accident yesterday. All these

29:15

motorcycle accidents changing in my life,

29:19

and so be careful. What you wish

29:21

for goes on

29:23

its way. So so I started rehearsals

29:25

the next week. But Jimmy

29:28

Ryan, who became my guitarist

29:30

for many, many years, and Paul Glance,

29:33

a friend of Jimmy's, and the three

29:35

of us rehearsed in New York for three days, and then

29:37

we went out to l A rehearsed with Russ

29:39

for one day. And by that

29:41

time I hopen open for Cats

29:43

seven, six April

29:47

six. Yes, and that changed things for you.

29:49

That was that. That was a convincing

29:52

night. We played two

29:54

shows every night and four shows on the weekend.

29:57

I met all all kinds of people. It

30:00

was like the lights

30:02

were shining on me. I couldn't I

30:04

couldn't say no at that point. And

30:06

I and even though I was suffering tremendous

30:08

stage fright, I had various things

30:10

that tricked me out of being afraid did

30:13

you move to l A? No? No, No, you never lived

30:15

in l A? No? Why well? I lived in

30:17

l A for various when when James

30:20

and I got married, we lived in l A to make

30:22

certain records there. But you visited

30:25

or did you visited? We rented houses. In

30:27

fact, the house that bought after

30:30

him we lived in. Yes. Did he like l

30:32

A? Did James like? I

30:34

think we both found it

30:37

agreeable and and it

30:40

was convenient while we were recording. Studios

30:42

were right there l A too. Sally

30:44

was actually both the kids were just

30:47

brand new and were able to be

30:49

with. We could take them to the studio

30:51

and there was no school to be involved.

30:53

You know, it was it was, It was great. It was

30:55

really great the years that Where did he like to live?

30:57

What was home to him? Martha's

31:00

Vineyard? Yeah, that's home to him. He was mostly

31:02

comfortable there, it was, Yeah, but he's most

31:04

comfortable there, not in New Yorker

31:06

either. No, No, I don't think either

31:08

of us were really And we kept on trying

31:10

to figure out what to do all the time in New York. We

31:13

neither of us really knew what to do. How

31:15

did poaching Kunkle for your recordings

31:18

in l A lead you to and

31:20

you don't have to talk about this if you don't want to. Your first marriage,

31:24

well, I met James the

31:27

first night that I was performing

31:29

at at the Troubador. He came backstage

31:32

into the dressing room too, I don't know, see

31:34

Russ or see me or whatever,

31:36

and he was just kind of sitting sitting there in the

31:38

corner until Joni Mitchell

31:40

came in and said, come on, James,

31:42

we have to leave now. So that's

31:45

the first time I actually met James. Even though we passed

31:47

and met a couple of times on the vineyard in

31:50

a peripheral kind of way as

31:52

youngsters, as as very young kids, we've

31:54

met his family had been up. And

31:58

then how soon after that did you get married? Well,

32:00

then we we met. After that,

32:03

we met the following Thanksgiving. Well,

32:06

the Thanksgiving I

32:08

went to his show at Carnegie

32:10

Hall and I went backstage in between

32:12

acts and I

32:15

said to him, you know, we we said

32:17

hi again and how are you and it

32:19

was just, you know, it was in between

32:22

the show and everybody was drinking beer and James's

32:25

band was hanging out and James said, and

32:27

I said to James, you know, if you're ever in New York

32:29

and you want a home cooked meal, please please

32:31

give me a call, and he said, how about tonight, And

32:34

so that was That was the first of many

32:37

home cooked meals.

32:40

There's one big home cooked and one large

32:42

home cooked meal. I'm sure

32:44

with someone who is as talented

32:47

as you, and it made so

32:49

much music as you have so much

32:51

great music, someone who's as gifted as

32:53

you, there must be countless moments

32:56

like that. But share one with us when

32:58

you were doing it, when you're in a studio or you're

33:00

performing, or you're doing a duet with

33:02

somebody, something in your life as a

33:04

musician that it just

33:07

sticks with you was like, this is it, this is what

33:09

it's all about. There's so

33:12

I'm very lucky that so much comes

33:14

to my mind. That it's very hard

33:16

to pick up one because there there are many many.

33:19

Um which

33:21

one do you want? You choose?

33:24

Give me one from give me a hint. We'll

33:26

give me one from when you did the songbook, when

33:28

you did the Sanders album.

33:31

Stephen came to the studio to

33:34

the recording studio while I was recording it, which

33:36

was live with an orchestra, Not

33:38

a Day goes By, and I was pretty

33:41

tense. That Stephen Sondheim, the

33:43

Great Stephen Snheim, who had written the song that

33:45

I was singing, was in the studio

33:47

very proprietary, but his material, yes.

33:50

And so I was in the in the vocal

33:52

booth, and there's a little window

33:54

in a vocal booth, and so I

33:56

wanted to avoid the window because he could see me

33:58

through the window. So I hunched

34:01

down on my knees. I got down on my knees

34:03

and did the vocal sitting on

34:05

my knees in a in a in a slightly

34:07

compromising position because I just had to hunch

34:09

down. And then I got up

34:12

at and it was a fairly I thought it was, under

34:14

the circumstances, a pretty pretty good vocal.

34:17

And I got up afterward, and

34:20

I walked back into the control room and

34:22

his head was in his hands and he was weeping

34:27

with with tears of gladness. I'm

34:29

happy to say, what a wonderful thing.

34:32

Oh God, that's that's pretty heraldic.

34:35

Not a day goes

34:38

by,

34:41

not a thing, but

34:48

coming up. Carly Simon talks about

34:50

the roots of her stage fright. I

34:53

talked to another musician from New

34:55

York, this one from Queen's who also

34:58

defined his generation people

35:00

who weren't prepared for for

35:02

what it is that I

35:05

was in the world that I came from. Nobody

35:07

nobody said, well, will you make your living

35:10

as an artist? But that wasn't

35:12

it possibility? Certainly,

35:15

you can make your living as a

35:17

rock and roll artist. And

35:22

I mean forget

35:25

about like the greatest songwriters

35:28

or something like that, just even a songwriter.

35:30

Take a listen to my entire conversation

35:33

with Paul Simon at Here's the Thing

35:35

dot Org. This

35:38

is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to

35:41

Here's the Thing. Carly Simon

35:43

has earned every bit of fame she's

35:45

achieved, but one could argue

35:47

she was destined for stardom.

35:49

Her childhood was peppered with remarkable

35:52

characters. Albert Einstein

35:54

at the dinner table, Jackie Robinson

35:56

playing second bass in her backyard. As

35:59

a grow up, she amassed her own

36:01

exceptional circle of friends. One

36:04

spontaneous evening that I will never forget

36:07

I was lucky enough to count myself among

36:09

them. I get the call from Jim, your

36:11

ex husband, Jim Hart, and Jim

36:14

calls me and says, now, Carly,

36:16

and I I would love you to

36:18

come to the house and we're gonna have a quick El Fresco

36:20

meal. Don't be late. It'll be you

36:23

and Carly and I and a mystery guest.

36:25

And I get to the house and you know who

36:27

shows up. And I'm apoplectic, you know, I

36:29

mean, I was beside myself. I don't know what

36:31

to say because she turned me Jacqueline

36:35

Kennedy, and she said, to me, so

36:37

tell me about acting.

36:41

She said, I want you to talk to me about acting. Was

36:43

my son John is very

36:46

interested in acting? And

36:48

literally I remember looking at going you want me

36:50

to talk to you about acting? I

36:52

said, you're kidding, right? And now then, how

36:54

could this be possible? But did you feel

36:57

you're friends with the former

36:59

First Lady of United States, one of the most

37:01

famous women that ever lived, and

37:03

other friendships of yours that I've known, Mike

37:06

and Diane, you were very friend with Nichols

37:09

and his wife? And uh is that

37:11

easier for you? Did you find in your life

37:13

that is your life progressed for you? Was it

37:15

easier to be friends with people who had the same kind

37:17

of issue, have fame

37:20

and so farther as you did? I don't think so.

37:23

I don't think that really had very much to do with

37:25

it. I mean, I met Jackie

37:27

originally because of the book idea

37:30

that she had and because she was working

37:32

in that business, she was working at Double

37:34

Day. But I also met her on the vineyard before, at

37:37

a party at the Styrons and

37:40

Bill and Rose Stein's, who see,

37:42

the vineyard has a population that includes

37:45

a lot of great sort of literary

37:47

figures, Bill Styron and Art

37:49

buck Wall, John Hersey and

37:52

Mike Wallace. Lilian Hellman

37:54

was actually the first of those people, and she

37:56

she probably attracted the Styron's

37:59

up there, and it just became an enclave

38:01

that particular area of the vineyard.

38:04

And so when James and I got married,

38:06

we were we were half in that

38:08

scene and half in the carpenters,

38:10

just the people who were who were building our house,

38:13

and we played volleyball without

38:15

on the lawn and went clamming with and

38:18

but there was a kind of a nice melange

38:20

of of those two groups, and

38:23

James and I weren't were not the only people

38:26

who straddled both sides. Because

38:28

because I don't necessarily think it's easier

38:30

to be with celebrities. I think if you have

38:32

friends, I mean, in the first place, I think

38:35

it's very hard to make friends past

38:37

the age of thirty. That's um.

38:40

I find that that a lot of the celebrity

38:42

friends that that I've made

38:45

because the attraction of the

38:47

similar, similar celebrities attract

38:50

or something don't don't you, or

38:52

they're they're they're they're not they're not

38:54

wholesome in a certain way.

38:57

And it's a little bit like being with the record

38:59

company. When you don't have a successful record,

39:02

and the first record that you've had that's that's really

39:04

successful, you get a first

39:06

throw for your bed, you know, and

39:08

then the next one you haven't done

39:10

that well, and you get a Cartier pen

39:14

and then then finally you

39:16

you've really dropped off the charts, and you

39:18

get like a little basket that's filled with

39:20

with shredded paper and a shampoo

39:23

from Keels, And so

39:26

in that way, it's a little bit when you're sort

39:28

of courting the friendship of somebody that you're a

39:30

new friend with and you're so excited that you've

39:32

made this friend who you've admired from afar

39:34

for so long, and you sort of you

39:37

court them with attention and things

39:40

that don't don't continue as

39:42

you get to know them, or they or they offend

39:44

you once, or there's a falling out, or

39:46

there's a there's a disruption, or

39:49

there's a jealousy, or there's something,

39:51

and then then there's a you know, the first

39:54

year of courting, there's there's there's a great

39:56

gift. Now I'm talking about the metaphor

39:58

of a gift because it can come in all different ways. And

40:01

then and then it decreases down

40:03

to, you know, the Santa

40:05

Claus slippers, and

40:08

there's not there's there's there's a kind of

40:10

a feeling that you're only as good as your last

40:12

present from them is, and

40:15

and you're so easily you're so

40:17

easily wounded by things that

40:20

they do, or if they don't write you

40:22

as long an email back as you've written

40:24

to them, you know, you count the number

40:26

of lines that you've written here, I wrote this whole

40:28

long letter about what you meant to me and

40:30

all the things we did together. And then they answer

40:32

you back saying I'll file that away.

40:34

Love. You

40:37

know, I find that for me. I'm

40:39

remarried, and I've got little kids, and

40:41

I've got a three year old or one and a half year

40:43

old and a five month old. I've got three You've had

40:46

three kids in three and a half years.

40:49

I have exactly what I wanted.

40:51

But my friends fall

40:53

off because I've had this choice

40:55

and these I've got my kids. My wife is

40:58

my dear friend. What about friends from

41:00

high school? I'm in touch with one guy

41:02

from high school and he lives in Norman, Oklahoma.

41:05

But I'm not in high school. Like I said

41:07

in my book, high school was a skin that

41:09

I shed. All I care

41:11

about is now, can you discipline yourself

41:13

to that degree? It just happened to me automatically.

41:18

Don't they refer to the best? Um?

41:23

I just don't want those

41:25

things to intrude sometimes

41:27

like I cancel. I mean

41:30

this, the smells, the things that you

41:32

eat, the the

41:34

sensory, those beautiful

41:36

things and good things, you know. I

41:38

mean. I walked around after a very corrosive

41:42

custody battle, and even

41:44

when I thought I it had subsided, I'd

41:46

be having dinner with somebody who they'd mentioned

41:48

themselves, or someone close

41:51

to them whose circumstances mirrored

41:53

mind, and it would come right back to me. If

41:55

you could see the sparks coming off my fingertips.

41:58

I was so charged. What about all the good things

42:00

too. I mean that's different,

42:02

but so but how can you how

42:04

can how can you segregate them to that degree?

42:07

It's just it's just how do

42:09

you write a song? Well,

42:12

that's how do you sing the way you do? It's

42:14

a talent. I have to take my

42:16

feelings. I can't.

42:21

I can't. I can't explagate in the same way

42:23

that you seem to be able to. I

42:25

mean, I I write about things that I

42:27

feel, and the past and the present

42:30

and the possibly the future merge.

42:33

And I can't possibly tell

42:36

you that that my past isn't

42:38

just as much a part of my present as

42:40

my present. I mean, it is your

42:43

your your combination, your

42:45

wholeness becomes it's

42:48

parts of like your building blocks of

42:50

your years. So

42:53

for the person who was preternaturally

42:57

shy, it seems you don't really enjoy performing.

42:59

You've always are quoted as saying, what

43:02

do you do? I mean, as you have a preparation

43:04

before you fly on an airplane, was there

43:06

a preparation before you performed live? Well,

43:08

you want to get back to the origins of why I'm

43:11

so afraid to be in the in the spotlight?

43:13

Or is that I mean because I had a terrible stammer

43:16

for for ever since

43:18

I could talk. Your mother told you to

43:20

sing, so she told me yes. But

43:23

that didn't always work in school. I couldn't do that.

43:26

They didn't have butter at school, and so

43:28

I I um every time

43:30

I was called upon in class, even if

43:33

I knew an answer, I couldn't

43:35

say it. But I didn't want to admit

43:37

that I couldn't say it. So the choice

43:40

was to just pretend that I didn't know it,

43:42

or pretend or just go? Which

43:45

would you do? So I pretended

43:47

that I didn't know the answer, and then I

43:49

I never wanted to be called upon, and that and

43:51

that just that just graduated

43:55

to the same thing in college. I

43:57

mean, the same situation in class

43:59

in college, and the same situation. I am afraid

44:02

to talk. I am doing so now by

44:04

the very skin of my chinny, chin chin.

44:07

Where is that? I'm mixed? I miss mixed

44:09

a metaphors. What was the preparation before you would

44:11

perform? Well, at

44:13

least my band members would all have to hit

44:15

me, spank me. That's

44:19

that was on the couch again. No, that wasn't

44:21

on the couch. That was definitely

44:23

and just before I go on stage,

44:26

so that the physical pain would would

44:28

override the emotional

44:31

struggle. Yes, that's interesting,

44:33

Yeah, just as when I mean, I was

44:35

once sitting with Stephen Sondheim

44:38

on on a piano bench. He

44:40

was working on that show called

44:42

Merrily, and I was starting

44:44

to have an anxiety attack and

44:46

just getting more and more um

44:50

thinking that my heart was going to beat out of my chest.

44:52

I was so scared. It wasn't there was no reason

44:54

to be. I was just having an anxiety attack, and

44:57

so I pinched my ear lobe, thinking that

44:59

that the physical pain again would distract

45:01

me from the emotional fear. And

45:04

the blood started pouring out of my ear

45:07

onto my white unto my white

45:09

shirt. So I mean, yeah,

45:12

but I'll do anything to avoid that

45:14

mental pain that I remember. Johnny

45:16

Ray was a singer from this from the fifties

45:19

who would cry when he would sing, and

45:22

I'm the same way. There's some songs I can't

45:24

get through, like what um,

45:26

well, just recently that's the way I've always heard it should

45:29

be. I was singing that for a group

45:31

of people who were trying to learn it because we were going to

45:33

do it for a concert on Martha's Vineyard, and I got to

45:35

the verse about you

45:37

say, we'll soar like two birds through the clouds,

45:39

but soon you'll cage me on your shelf. I'll

45:41

never learn to be just me first by myself,

45:43

and I just it just all came

45:46

flooding back, all the feelings of

45:48

being possessed and wanting to possess

45:50

and wanting to wanting to combine. You

45:53

just we're just sitting here as human being

45:55

so much wanting to merge, and yet we

45:57

can't. And it's so frustrating we

46:00

can't. So we're sitting here.

46:03

You mean you can't and your you and that partner,

46:06

or we meaning all of us can't.

46:08

All of us can't. Isn't amazing? Oh God,

46:10

there is such an authority

46:13

on love. There are times that there are

46:15

times so sorry I asked you to come here. And now.

46:17

One of the things that that that does

46:20

make you blend more easily,

46:23

that acts as a as a

46:25

lubricant to being able to pass

46:28

yourself to another person is music. And

46:31

it is the thing that is the common denominator.

46:34

Is something that you listen to at the same time you feel

46:36

at the same time you It

46:38

goes through your body at the same time, the

46:40

vibrations the actual vibrations

46:44

you are felt in your body, and

46:47

and that's a way to emerge. That's certainly

46:50

was my way of merging, because that's something

46:52

that I could do. But merging

46:54

together when when James and I used to sing together,

46:56

that was about as great as it got.

46:59

You thought that way? Or yes, absolutely,

47:01

he felt that way. Do you think he dug doing them with you too?

47:04

I don't tell you. I don't know what. Do you how

47:06

he felt with you? He's pretty reticent. Yeah,

47:08

he wouldn't say that, but my

47:11

my my kids would and do, and

47:13

I sing with them and we

47:15

are as one when we sing. My

47:18

uncle he would always end everything

47:20

that he did with this song called

47:24

look at the blue Birds and the blackbirds. Do

47:26

you know that song? I

47:28

don't know why I thought of it, but but I'm

47:30

gonna sing it if I remember it. Look

47:33

at my doorstep, look at my doorstep, Look at the

47:35

blue birds, look at the blackbirds, look at the good luck,

47:37

look at the bad luck, look at the good duck and the bad luck.

47:39

There we never knew bluebirds, knew any blackbirds,

47:41

never knew blackbirds knew any bluebirds, never good

47:43

luck ever to perch out there. I

47:46

overheard boom boom boom,

47:48

those birdies talking boom boom,

47:50

boom boom, And this is what

47:52

they had to say.

47:55

Now, first the bluebirds

47:57

saying, you gotta have Sonny,

48:00

you wearther. So

48:03

the bluebirds and the blackbirds

48:05

got to getther.

48:09

And then the blackbirds said, we're birds

48:11

of a different fairther.

48:14

So the bluebirds and the blackbirds

48:17

got to getther.

48:20

Well, when they talked it over, they

48:23

let the blackbirds bring the rain, and

48:25

then the bluebirds all agreed to

48:28

bring the sunshine again.

48:30

But you can't have rain of sunshine

48:33

that lasts forever.

48:37

You can take those bluebirds, you take those

48:39

blackbirds, you put them together, you get

48:41

fair weather. And that's the reason

48:44

the bluebirds and the blackbirds got

48:46

to getther.

48:50

I did in his key, not in mind, but

48:52

what the hell live

48:57

Jesus Martha's vineyard zone Carly's

48:59

son that thank you, thank

49:02

you. After

49:06

our interview, I realized I still

49:08

had a couple more questions for Carly Simon,

49:11

so I called her up. Hey,

49:15

Alec, who were the people who

49:17

are your contemporaries, who you worked with, who

49:19

made the deepest impression on you? Um,

49:22

well, it would

49:25

have to be certainly

49:28

James Taylor. I mean why,

49:30

Well, before I met him, I listened to

49:33

his music and it stirred something

49:35

very immediate and heartfelt

49:38

and specific. I

49:40

mean, there was an arrow that

49:42

was directly from him to me. You

49:45

know. One one of the things that the

49:47

incredible pain that I feel from

49:49

not having that returned,

49:52

you know, from from not from

49:54

not having that accepted in the words

49:56

that James will not talk

49:58

to me. That that's not

50:00

that, that's not a mutual thing, and I don't

50:03

know why. And it's

50:05

one of those things where you have to you have to

50:07

go on and live the destiny of your life

50:09

by yourself. His music

50:12

had a tremendous effect on me. Cat

50:14

Stevens did too, because I was listening

50:16

to a lot of of his music

50:18

around that time. But then there was there

50:21

were um all all

50:23

of the great musicals of the of the

50:25

forties and fifties, especially

50:28

Guys and Dolls and

50:30

Kiss Me Kate at Brigadoon,

50:33

South Pacific, um

50:35

uh, you know I And

50:39

then there was the the operas like a

50:41

Mall and the night visitors like like

50:44

the Manati operas. And because

50:46

there was so much music of different of

50:48

different um types going

50:51

around, my house. Joey was the person who

50:53

brought in the classical music, but so in my

50:55

father because he played the you know, he

50:57

he played such a variety of classical music

51:00

on the piano. And then and then Joey

51:02

was the opera singer, and she brought that into the

51:04

house and in that form.

51:06

And and then my mother was

51:08

the one who primarily listened to the to

51:11

the theater music. But my uncle's were

51:13

both the founders of jazz

51:15

magazines and

51:18

and they they were, you know, they

51:21

were the ones that listened to Dave Brubeck

51:23

and and Lamberts,

51:25

Hendricks and Ross and brought those people.

51:28

So there were there was a

51:30

whole huge variety of

51:32

of visitors

51:34

in my head of of all

51:36

kinds of music. I would say that that other

51:39

than Polka's, I didn't listen to a lot

51:41

of Folcus And

51:44

I didn't I wasn't very much

51:46

in the country music at that time

51:48

either. I mean, it wasn't it had hadn't

51:50

made itself into mainstream.

51:53

But but yeah, I didn't. I didn't love the twang.

51:56

You see all these songs about love,

51:59

thoughts about love, or in so many of your songs,

52:01

who's the love of your life.

52:04

Well, I guess my kids.

52:06

But that with that question, I think he probably understand

52:09

that it's just, um,

52:12

it's it's breathtaking, how how

52:14

much, how on a different, on

52:16

different level it exists, and

52:19

but it teaches you about it teaches

52:21

you about a brand new level. And and

52:23

as far as romantic love, I don't

52:25

I don't necessarily want to go there

52:27

because that doesn't necessarily

52:30

last as long as as as

52:32

the as the other kind of soul of I

52:36

mean, I suppose there must be some

52:38

people who favor one child

52:40

over another, and that must

52:42

be very hard for them to say, well

52:46

that it's both of my kids, with three of my kids, when it's

52:48

really only one. I don't know. I don't have

52:50

I haven't had that experience because because

52:52

I love my children equally and so

52:55

much. In this this is a lot left

52:57

over. This

53:01

is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to.

53:03

Here's the thing