0:04

This is Alec Baldwin. And here's the thing. Ed

0:07

Rollins could have been a contender.

0:10

He was a boxing phenom until

0:12

an injury forced him out. But

0:14

it wasn't long until this fighter got

0:17

his first gig in politics, working

0:19

as a campaign coordinator for Robert Kennedy

0:21

in California. Eventually

0:24

he was running Ronald Reagan's re election

0:26

effort in four, Ross

0:28

Perot's campaign in nine two

0:30

that lasted two months, and Mike

0:33

Huckabee is in two thousand seven. Ed

0:36

Rollins has worked on six presidential

0:38

campaigns. He's one of the

0:40

guys in the back room, coming up with a strategy,

0:42

making deals and telling candidates

0:45

wind to duck and wind a jab. Rollins

0:48

is known for being honest and direct,

0:50

which brings him admiration and trouble,

0:53

sometimes big trouble. Just over

0:56

a week after helping Christine Todd Whitman

0:58

win election as govern of New Jersey,

1:02

Rollins himself claimed the campaign

1:04

had paid black ministers to suppress

1:07

black turnout. Later, the straight

1:09

Shooter explained his remarks by saying,

1:11

quote, I was talking trash

1:14

fifteen years ago. Ed Rollins declared

1:17

enough, no more politics for

1:19

him. He wrote his memoir thirty

1:21

years in the business, he had a baby daughter.

1:24

He wanted a different life, but

1:26

something kept pulling ed Rollins

1:29

back in. He's worked from

1:31

Mike Huckabee and two months ago he left

1:33

Michelle Backman's campaign. Today,

1:36

Rollins says, the political landscape

1:38

is entirely different. But when he

1:40

started, once a primary was over,

1:42

even if it was an ideological difference, which has always

1:45

been kind of an establishment art in the conservative

1:47

element of the party, the operatives got

1:49

together, you know, winning was important. You didn't

1:52

carry grudges. You know, you basically

1:54

put it together, where Democrats obviously had the

1:56

big ideological fights and and uh

1:58

never came together. And now the republic can tell the ideological

2:01

we have the ideological fights. The other thing

2:03

that's changed dramatically is

2:05

the role of the consultants versus the role

2:07

of the party in yours so well, in

2:09

your lifetime, in my lifetime, if you wanted

2:11

to run for office, you basically

2:13

hire someone like me. They can run a campaign,

2:16

and I in turn hire a media person

2:18

that can do your television, and I hire a fundraiser

2:20

that can go raising. That what's happening more, that's

2:22

that's absolutely what's happening is. I mean, people always say

2:25

to me, well, why don't the party bosses step in here?

2:27

All there's no party boss. When did that start to change?

2:29

Probably in the seventies, uh

2:31

and maybe even the late sixties. And the people

2:33

who would run Nixon's campaign and had run

2:36

Kennedy's campaign were all their pals. They

2:38

were people who had been their aids on the hill.

2:41

They weren't professionals. There were people who basically

2:44

wrote Kennedy's speeches, ran Nixon's

2:47

office. They didn't make a living doing

2:49

this. They basically believed in the man. And

2:51

then they went somewhere in the government worked. Then

2:53

it started changing somewhat. And of course the

2:56

big change was the money.

2:58

After the seventy two camp pin where

3:01

you know, Nixon smashed McGovern spent

3:04

over two hundred million dollars, probably a hundred million

3:06

of it illegal. He knuked him, He knuked him,

3:08

he deliberately knuked him. After that, you

3:10

know, you saw the development of a lot more of the operatives,

3:13

and you know it's now thousands

3:15

of operatives across the country. Every time you turn on

3:17

the TV set, you see you know, Republican strategist,

3:20

Democrats strategist, and I've been in the game for four

3:22

decades, um one of eight members

3:24

of the Political Consultants Hall of Fame. I've

3:26

seen them all, but I don't even know what these people are. You know,

3:28

what do you think that there are? Are they ideologically

3:31

or in terms of party affiliation? Is that

3:33

they're call to duty or are

3:36

they really just mercenaries in there for high They're not mercenary.

3:38

Very few people really make money in the business. The

3:40

media guys make some money, and they're about the only

3:42

ones that do. Most people go into

3:44

it because they sort of believe in somebody or

3:47

something. But you pretty much stay one party

3:49

of the other. You stay at Democratic, you stay a Republican.

3:51

You see very little cross over. The

3:53

only time is crossed over. I

3:56

crossed over. But I just think,

3:58

I mean, very early on when you were did you know? I did? Uh?

4:02

You know from what kind of house? I grew up in a Boston Irish

4:05

Catholic household. My father had moved to California

4:07

and the station there briefly in the war. We

4:09

went to California and

4:12

uh town again, town called

4:14

Valeo, which is just north of San Francisco. UH

4:17

and it's a blue collar shipyard

4:19

town was a wonderful place to grow up because everybody's

4:21

old man worked in the shipyard. Anybody who had

4:23

any money had been bootleggers, would run the whorehouses

4:26

during the war. You know, it was just everybody else. You

4:28

know, it was the west. Where

4:30

was a house? Where's your

4:32

old man work? You know, works in the shipyard, you know, And they

4:35

built all this public housing so you live next

4:37

to African Americans and played ball with him

4:39

in Mexicans. And it was a classless

4:41

society. So for me, it was a

4:43

wonderful uh. You know, my friends are

4:46

every color, and every city had

4:48

never thought any of it. But it was all Democrats.

4:50

There was no I mean, I think there weren't ten Republicans

4:52

of the entire town. So needless

4:55

to say, it was an experience. When I became

4:57

a prominent Republican nineteen

4:59

seventy two, I shifted

5:02

kind of a you know, it's the war was a variety

5:04

of things, uh, and I just felt

5:06

that the Democratic Party was too left

5:08

for me at that point in time. I

5:11

had real guilt feelings about the war. Travis

5:13

Air Force Base, with ever bringing the Vietnam kids

5:16

back the bodies, you know, it's ten miles

5:18

from my house. I broke my back

5:20

playing football, and so I tried to go the service,

5:22

couldn't go, and so I had these real heavy

5:24

pangs of guilt where I saw friends go

5:27

and some die and some be mangled. At

5:29

that point in my life, I thought those

5:31

guys and Warsing are smart guys. You know, they know

5:33

what they're doing. Having spent twenty

5:37

five years in Washington and highest levels,

5:39

I now know they don't, you know, But at that point in

5:41

time, I thought they did. The Nixon was

5:43

the first campaign I worked on at seventy two.

5:46

I've done a Bobby Kennedy man in probably

5:49

if he would have lived, I probably would have stayed a Democrat.

5:53

And then when I became a Republican, I tried

5:55

to change the Republican Party and make

5:57

it a working people's party. I was sort

5:59

of architect of the Reagan Democrat,

6:02

which was sort of what I grew up and sort of what you grew

6:04

up. So that switched for you. Kennedy's

6:06

assassinated in sixty eight and Nixon becomes

6:08

president. You weren't signed on to Nixon,

6:11

so to speak. I was not signed on sixty eight at

6:13

all. Now, uh,

6:15

How does your association with Bachmann

6:18

begin? What's the genesis of that? How does that work? Did

6:20

they call you? They they call you. You

6:21

You know, I don't run

6:23

campaigns for a living. I sort of do friends from

6:26

time to time, or I try and be a change agent

6:28

for the party. I'll take on an African

6:30

American candidate who doesn't have any resources

6:33

to broaden the base, or woman candidate. I

6:35

was going to do my Cuckabees campaign. I had run his campaign

6:38

four years ago, and I thought I had a real shot

6:40

at it, and so I spent six eight months with him

6:42

trying to get a real campaign together

6:45

for him on like the one we had last time. So

6:47

when he made a determination not to run, you know,

6:49

I'd sort of put a team together, put a strategy

6:51

together a little bit, and and

6:53

I was trying to think, Okay, is there anybody else they could

6:55

fit that model? And Bachman

6:57

came to me several times, came to me. I didn't

6:59

have a good first initial reaction to

7:01

her. There's a little high strong house

7:04

members, very difficult to you know, it's I

7:06

mean, it's not I've done Katherine Harris's

7:08

campaign when she ran for the Senate, and there was. There

7:10

was too much similarity there. So I

7:12

turned her down and I said to her, you know,

7:15

the only way I'll do a campaign at this point in my life

7:17

is and you'll understand this totally.

7:20

Ronald Reagan was the best candidate ever. And Ronald

7:22

Reagan once said to me, you have to understand

7:25

you're my director. He knew what his part

7:27

was. He knew, you know, he understood that someone

7:30

had hit the mark. Someone has to see the whole

7:32

picture as opposed to you know, you do it,

7:34

You're you're concentrating on your part, but someone

7:36

has to see them all the other elements of it.

7:39

And so ever since then, I've always

7:41

said that I'm the director. I've done this a

7:43

lot of times. So I said, there

7:45

the only way I'll do this is if I can pick my team.

7:48

It's your campaign. Obviously, won't do anything you're

7:50

not happy with, but at the end of the day, I gotta

7:52

run it. If you want to run it, then find you go run

7:54

it, you know, and I'll go back home. So, you

7:56

know, she came back to me and she said, it's yours,

7:58

you run it. You do whatever you want to do with that was that

8:00

was pretty good for about six or eight weeks and

8:02

then uh, you know, obviously we

8:05

won the straw poll and no time in

8:08

Iowa and I when she came back again,

8:10

what changed? What changed

8:13

I think was partly she had

8:15

become a national figure and so

8:17

everyone wanted her to go to Florida and South

8:20

Carolina. And at the end of the

8:22

day, what I kept trying to tell her, your

8:24

ticket out is Iowa. Romney's the front

8:26

runner at that point in time, and they'll

8:28

be a chaser, and the chaser will come out of Iowa

8:31

or normally New Hampshire, but

8:33

Romney is gonna win to Hampshire. So the only place for you

8:36

to get your ticket out, sort of like the

8:38

the Final sixty four basketball about how

8:40

great your team is. You gotta win every week,

8:42

and I was the first week. And the Giuliani example

8:45

four years ago was the perfect example. Leading

8:47

in every pole, decides I'm gonna skip everything

8:49

and go to Florida and got nothing. Fred

8:52

Thompson the same way, got nothing. What's happened?

8:54

Do you think? To Bockman During the race, there

8:56

were all these questions about, you know, her provenance

8:58

and these schools she went doing, her teachers and their

9:01

religious use and so forth. None of that bothered

9:03

you. None of that As an

9:05

ideological Christian conservative. I'm

9:07

a Catholic. I'm like you, you know, and I get to struggle

9:09

with my own faith every day, and I'm very private.

9:12

It's very room

9:15

exactly, and that's the way it is. You know. I had a little

9:17

bit of experience with it last time with Huckabee.

9:19

You know, he was a Baptist minister, and he would go

9:22

in the churches on Sunday and just flick a

9:24

switch. The politics of the

9:26

week shut down on Sundays. He

9:28

could go in there and give this extraordinary sermon

9:31

and then the switch went back on. He never

9:33

took the sermon out of the church into the politics.

9:36

And in her particular case, what I

9:38

said to her early on, as I said, okay, everybody

9:40

in this race is against Obama. Okay, so

9:43

saying you're against Obama against Obamacare all

9:45

arrest. It's all fine, well and good, except it doesn't move

9:47

you forward. What you have to say is I want to abolish

9:49

Obamacare, and here's what I want to put in his place. And

9:51

I could never get to that hurdle. She

9:54

liked the applause lines the Tea Party

9:56

type stuff, and and I think part of it was she

9:58

just wasn't wee the campaign together

10:00

very quickly. These things take a year of

10:02

preparation, and we didn't have that. What

10:05

happened with Huckaby? Do you think I

10:07

think he basically he had come

10:09

right out of the governorship. It was sort of like the

10:11

next thing to do. Not that anybody

10:13

gets heart at this time. His heart wasn't

10:15

in it, you know, my senses. He'd have been a great

10:17

candidate. I was convinced it was going to be a duel between

10:19

Huckaby and Round. It would have been, I'm telling you would

10:21

about it would have been Mono and

10:24

Mono, and I had it all strategized, and that's

10:26

what that us. That's

10:28

why I had it. And I knew that my

10:31

game, and I had spent two years thinking

10:33

about it, you know. But as I said to him,

10:36

I can't want it more than you want it. Good

10:38

point. And do you find sometimes

10:40

you do? I love the game. But

10:42

it's amazing how you said that, to say

10:44

you're against Obamacare and not step

10:47

up and uh and offer your alternative.

10:49

It's amazing how many politicians

10:51

on both sides of the aisle underestimate

10:54

it just doesn't do enough for you to say, you

10:57

know, kill Obama, so to speak to his administration.

10:59

You made a come and in an interview you were giving

11:01

which as you said, you know, was Kane a serious

11:04

guy or was he just an entertainer?

11:06

And then you said, does he have the temperament

11:08

to be president? Is that in your mind

11:10

one of the key elements of the temperament of being president

11:13

is being able to create policy and have ideas

11:15

well, it's it's I worked for four presidents,

11:18

uh, and I've spent you know, eight ten

11:20

years of my life in a White House in twenty five

11:22

years of my life around and go through all four and describe

11:24

how they were in terms of their own authorship

11:27

of public policy. Nixon was brilliant, very

11:29

aggressive mentally and and gets a great credit

11:31

on the foreign policy arena, but he did great things on the

11:33

domestic He created an e p A. You know, Ford

11:36

was been a decent house leader. You

11:38

know, it was sort of an accident. Not the temperament for the

11:40

president's not the big picture he was not. He

11:42

was not a big big picture guy. You know.

11:44

Carter obviously was was not someone

11:46

I worked for, but I got to watch him

11:49

up close, and I he problem.

11:51

You know, he was a micromanager. He was an engineer,

11:53

and he wanted he wanted to manage everything. And the

11:55

reality of the president isn't a management

11:57

job. The president is an inspire

12:00

rational job, and he sets a direction.

12:02

He has four or five big decisions

12:04

to make every day. If you have an

12:06

inability to make decisions, then

12:08

they basically stack up on you. And he thought Carter

12:11

was weak on that. I thought Carter was a micromanager.

12:13

I thought Bill Clinton overthought it. Bill Clinton

12:15

had an ongoing seminar, but he was viewed as

12:17

a very decisive guy. You think that that's an unfair

12:20

Uh, let me just say this. I

12:22

think Bill Clinton became a much better

12:25

president as time went on, and I think as we reflect

12:27

back on his presidency, there's

12:29

not many people in America who wouldn't rather have

12:32

him than who we have today. And that doesn't

12:34

mean he wouldn't be a very viable candidate again. You

12:37

know, he was a charming man. He had a great ability to make

12:39

people feel good about themselves. You

12:41

know Reagan, who I worked for and was closest to.

12:43

Uh, you know, Reagan had a core

12:46

of beliefs that he had like

12:48

you, In addition to having a career, he

12:51

basically was interested in politics for

12:53

thirty years. He thought on paper

12:55

people underestimated his intelligence. He

12:58

read, he wrote, He

13:00

knew who he was, and he had

13:02

three major principles, four major principles

13:05

of things that he wanted to do. One is

13:07

he was been fighting communists

13:09

since his days in all I would so he made a gigantic

13:12

investment to rebuild the defenses the country

13:14

so that the Soviets would treat us with respect,

13:17

just to throw for for

13:19

arguments like the liberal side to this, I've

13:22

seen this going cycles where you have a lull

13:25

crisis of the spirit, so to speak, after

13:27

the Vietnam War, and we do collapse defense spending,

13:30

and that's a mistake. But then Reagan comes

13:32

and starts to ramp up defense spending again. For

13:34

my money, we probably would have less of a

13:36

swing of the penduluman if the wars themselves

13:38

weren't such a waste of time. My question

13:41

for you is did you think that the Vietnam War amounted

13:43

to anything? Certainly not today. I mean, what what

13:45

had amount to is that fifty plus

13:48

men were killed and we divided

13:50

this country. What impact did it have on our lives at all?

13:52

It had. It had a terrible impact because it divided

13:54

America, and I think to a certain extent as

13:56

you'd reflect back, and I was very pro Vietnam

13:59

War because my

14:01

father had been in the service. Everybody around

14:03

me was in the service. So it was a real basic

14:06

my country right around, my country, my country

14:08

right or wrong. Absolutely, And at

14:10

the end of the day, you know, my sense is

14:13

I'm very close to military people. I have

14:16

great affection for them. Both my brother

14:18

and my father were servicemen.

14:21

But I saw that the tragic stuff

14:23

that happened at the end of the day, I

14:26

like the pile doctrine. Cap Weinberger

14:28

basically asked the flag officers who

14:30

had been the captains and the majors in Vietnam

14:33

to give us rules. Tell us

14:35

what are the rules of engagement? Those four

14:37

things I remember exactly. Don't

14:39

ever go to war where the US doesn't have a real

14:41

interest, Don't ever go to war unless

14:43

we have American support behind it. Always

14:46

go with overwhelming force so that our troops

14:48

did not put a disadvantage. And always have an exit strategy.

14:50

Have we had that in these last two wars? No,

14:53

we did not. We had it in the first Iraq

14:55

the Kuwait War. We went with overwhelming force.

14:58

We yeah going in

15:00

Afghanistan. Giving that government the opportunity

15:02

to give up the bin Laden, getting the Taliban

15:05

out of there was a worthwhile effort. In hindsight,

15:07

who cared about Iraq? It didn't matter. You

15:10

know. We look at these two wars and I think to myself,

15:12

if I was the president, forget about Iraq, I

15:14

would have assassinated Saddam Hussein later on

15:16

somehow, or taken him prisoner and put him on trial.

15:19

But I would have built the mother of all military

15:21

basis right because Pakistan is the enemy. Pakistan

15:24

is the most dangerous country. I would build the

15:26

mother of all military basis right on the

15:28

Pakistani board of But while

15:30

I was doing that, I would fly around the world and I would

15:32

get the leaders of the most reliable allies

15:34

who had some funds, and I'd say to them, you

15:37

must give us something. We're gonna have a coalition

15:39

of twelve or fourteen countries, and if you don't, I'm

15:41

gonna make your life miserable. I wanted

15:43

to have half a million men on

15:46

the ground in Afghanistan. You know, leaflet

15:48

the whole place, say get out, We're coming and drawing

15:50

them, and if they make one move, we don't like we go when

15:52

we just crushed Pakistan with five people.

15:55

What do you think of that idea? Uh, it's for

15:57

Hollywood liberals, it's

16:00

pretty darn good. But I know, I know that's where

16:02

terrorism that is there. I

16:04

think I think the battle against terrorism

16:07

is an ongoing war, and I think to a certain extent,

16:09

we need to continue it. Uh. My fear

16:11

of this whole thing. And you

16:14

know, as you look in the future

16:16

as a strategist, you alway, I always try and look

16:18

to the future, the next region. We

16:20

all focus right now in them at least, But the Pacific

16:22

is really the big region. I mean, it's the China, but

16:25

China, you know, Japan,

16:27

Vietnam, all these all these emerging countries.

16:29

And I have a Chinese daughter.

16:32

I adopted a child from China, and China

16:34

twenty times. I love China. China

16:36

is not a military threat to us

16:38

at this point in time. China is building

16:40

submarines to protect their assets. They've never

16:43

been an invading country. They're a country that basically,

16:45

you know, in the absurdity of US was talking

16:48

about the emerging China. China has been there

16:50

for five thousand years, you know, right

16:53

and and or any place else say that they have watched

16:55

us emerged. They have not watched, you know, and they watched many

16:57

countries come and fall. My sense

16:59

is every time China build an aircraft carrier,

17:01

we don't have to go nuts and worry about

17:03

going to war. You know. For me, it's my country,

17:06

right or wrong, but never unfunded.

17:09

And that is that the problem in our society

17:11

today is that we need to raise taxes. Do you believe

17:13

we need to raise taxes. I believe we need to raise

17:16

revenue. So beyond taxes. However

17:18

we raise revene, well you get people back to work. No

17:20

one has come forth with a plan to me to

17:23

show me how raising taxes

17:25

basically does any of the rest of it, you

17:27

know. I mean I find it appalling today when you read

17:29

in the in the New York Post. You know, all

17:32

the major corporations that you know are not paying taxes.

17:34

I mean, they got all the loopholes in the world. So to me, I'd

17:36

eliminate all the loopholes, I would, you know, I don't think

17:39

everybody's going to pay something. Everybody has

17:41

to pay something, and and and I think every well,

17:44

I think every American would want to pay something, even if it's

17:46

fifty or a hundred buck minimum at the end

17:48

of at the end of your bill, I mean, you can't have the

17:50

taxes the corporations are not paying is merely going

17:52

towards executive pay, which has become Ye,

17:56

it's it's you know, it's it's it's obscene. And at

17:58

the end of the day, I mean the idea

18:00

that I teach it houstro These young

18:03

kids that are that are great kids. You

18:05

know, your your neck of the woods out there, you

18:07

know, blue collar kids going out of school can't find jobs.

18:10

That eliminates hope. And somehow we have

18:12

to we have to fix that. You asked

18:14

me about Reagan earlier. Reagan

18:16

leaved deeply in this country, and he inspired

18:19

this country, and he made Americans feel good about themselves

18:21

again. He was proud of America, got up every

18:23

day, was proud of America. To me, Reagan,

18:26

because I have a very different view of Reagan than you do. He

18:28

was a failed actor who in my business, what happened.

18:31

You become ripe and you fall from that tree

18:33

and you go and he went into this other field because it was

18:35

a role for him to play. But more importantly,

18:38

when you say Reagan made people feel good about themselves,

18:41

I except where some people see that. But what

18:43

Reagan said to our society was, if

18:45

it's your choice between you having a swimming

18:48

pool and you've worked really really hard

18:50

and some poor person getting some

18:53

public entitlement or going to school, what have you?

18:55

Damn it all, you should have your swimming pool. The government's

18:58

making that choice for you. And Reagan

19:00

seduced a whole generation of Americans into

19:02

believing you should have what you want more than they

19:04

should have what they need, and don't feel guilty. Well I think

19:06

that's yeah, I think that's overstated. I mean,

19:08

obviously you're entitled your point of view. Reagan

19:11

grew up in the generation as did I. I'm

19:14

sixty eight. My old man said,

19:16

you're going to college. I don't care what you made your

19:18

and but you're going to college. And when I had that education,

19:20

my life was going to be better than my father's life. And

19:22

obviously it has been. Uh, and that was

19:25

the dream and and uh, you

19:27

know, I mean I get changed, it's changed, and and that's

19:29

and that's the scary part today you

19:32

have a daughter. I have a daughter. I look

19:34

in the eyes of my daughter at the world,

19:37

and I once said, when she was an infant, I said,

19:39

I hope somedays she doesn't regret the fact that we

19:41

took her out of China. You know. And at that time it

19:43

was a ridiculous statement to make, because China

19:45

was never gonna be anything Johnas did

19:47

an extraordinary country. You might have been better off the oortunity

19:50

opportunities she's she's taking Chinese, uh,

19:53

but she can state college right at

19:56

the end of the day, you know. I mean, she's lived a great life

19:58

and she's a one old she's Si Steam and

20:00

she's the joy of my life. But it just, I guess

20:03

the thing that bothers me the most. I

20:05

first went to Warston in February nineteen seventy

20:07

three. When I went there, there

20:10

was plenty partisan but there

20:12

was a social environment to it. You don't you didn't hate

20:14

each other, and and

20:16

and and you know, Teddy Kennedy

20:19

and and and and you

20:21

shook hands, you went on yet to drink. Chris Matthew is a perfect

20:23

example. He was Tip O'Neil's press secretary. You

20:26

know, I yelled at him four or five times. On the course. Today

20:28

we'd go and have a drink with great friends today. You know, today

20:31

there's a bitterness, there's a hatred, you

20:35

know. I think part of it is going to the too. Uh.

20:38

Nixon was part of its impeachment.

20:40

I think the ugliness began more. It

20:43

started then, and then it became

20:45

the combination of the gym rights and the and

20:47

the new gingrich. That was the real battle, and not just

20:49

knocking out of president. We knocked out a speaker

20:52

on a BS deal. Wasn't like he was taking

20:54

hundreds of thousands of dollars of stupid book deal, petty

20:57

theft at best, and not even theft.

20:59

Then what happened as they started drawing the lines

21:02

in a way that basically you

21:04

couldn't have competition. So now that's become an industry,

21:06

hasn't it? This kind of this kind of intel

21:09

which brings us to Kane. You know, with

21:12

this particular primary season for the Republicans,

21:14

you've got a guy or a woman for that matter,

21:16

who are really they're at the top and they're looking

21:19

good, and then it's a bright shining day for them,

21:21

and then within a week or two they're gone

21:23

like Kane. Is this the condition

21:26

for all people in your profession?

21:28

The political advisor you're working with

21:30

someone you know, everybody's got something in their closets.

21:33

Do you think Cane's people they obviously knew about

21:35

this restaurant. He doesn't have a real

21:37

campaign, can get in this kind of on a lark. He

21:39

never expected to be a front runner. He never expected

21:41

he's weighing it. He's weighing it, and he's winging it on substance.

21:44

Uh, he didn't put the time in. He doesn't have a team.

21:46

His team is second tier at best.

21:49

Where you know, I mean the hat. He had an advisor,

21:51

a legit operation and advisor, as you

21:53

would understand that they might have done this. The first

21:55

the first thing I do in every campaign, and started when I was

21:58

running assembly races in California where you

22:00

do. I would sit down and I'd say, Alex,

22:02

you want to run for the Assembly. I want to check for five

22:04

thousand dollars printiple don't call me Alex,

22:06

excuse me, okay, mayor

22:08

Baldwin mayor Bowen, Uh, Mr

22:11

Bowen. The first thing I do is

22:13

ask you for five thousand dollars. And I'd say what,

22:15

I'm gonna hire a private detective and

22:18

I'm gonna go find out everything I can about

22:20

you. And I have Kennedy said, wellhy are you gonna do that?

22:22

So I'm gonna do it on him too. But at the

22:24

end of the day, all he has to do is right at check, I

22:27

have to come after. The first thing I do is I sit

22:29

down and I say, pretend I'm your priest. You confess

22:31

all your confess all your sent I

22:33

will tell you what their mortal of you. You're not capable

22:36

of making drink for your own good. I've

22:38

heard it all, you know, I don't care. Just it's a and

22:43

they always lie, yeah, and they

22:45

always lie. And when then it does come

22:47

out, they go, you know, I never thought that was gonna

22:49

happen. Now, how could you be a

22:51

CEO of a trade? This is not the Pentagon,

22:54

This is not a gigantic organization. And

22:56

you have to not one

22:58

but two and you're part and probably other

23:00

things that were you know, uh didn't even come

23:03

to charge and and and you wouldn't say the first

23:05

thing you would say, hey, can we check this out

23:07

or can we go look at it? So it's

23:09

amateur our I mean, obviously he's not going to

23:12

be the nominee of the party, and it wasn't even if this hadn't

23:14

come about. It's a sad thing for the party,

23:16

sad thing for him at the end of the day.

23:18

I mean, I mean, an articulate African American is

23:20

a very important thing for the Republican Party because we don't

23:22

have any. And I think at the end of the day, you

23:25

know, he may survive this

23:27

trauma, but he's not going to survive this

23:29

in the sense of being a viable candidate. Do you think that Perry

23:32

has any shot of the nomination? Right? If I was

23:34

perry strategist, Perry has

23:36

twenty million dollars at least sitting

23:39

there who's doing well with money, doing well with money. But he's

23:41

still a Texas governor. But all he has

23:43

to do is win two states.

23:46

He has to win ioways to win South Can you think he will?

23:48

Who? Do you pretty well win South Carolina? Whoever

23:51

wins Iowa? Or do you think they'll go hand

23:53

to him? They do? I think you do? Think so? Do

23:55

they always? They sometimes not? Sometimes

23:58

they don't. I think that Romney will win I and

24:00

Perry woman suck if Romney wins which which

24:02

he could he could. He's got great

24:05

strength there. He wins that, he wins New Hampshire.

24:07

He's on his way. This

24:17

is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's

24:19

the thing. More from my conversation

24:21

with Ed Rollins in a minute. This

24:33

is Alec Baldwin. You're listening to. Here's

24:35

the thing I'm talking with Ed Rollins.

24:39

Obviously, in the in the Whitman campaign, there was

24:42

the voter suppression issue that you had to deal with, And

24:44

I'm wondering what did you learn from that experience and

24:46

how do you think that's played out now?

24:48

Meaning do you think that's still an issue when race is now well

24:51

walking around? Money is still an issue. My mistake

24:54

there was not that I had done to describe that mistake. What

24:56

had happened is with the public finance race. Florida

24:59

did not have good relations. Ships was the Floria

25:01

was running against Whitman. He was that he was the Democratic

25:03

coming to governor. He had run out of money.

25:05

What happened to him? He was a good governor from

25:07

a Democrat perspective, but he wasn't very charismatic.

25:10

So what happened is we had money to

25:12

go into the community and basically have walking

25:14

around money. And the differences

25:16

when Democrats go out and basically say

25:18

I want you to turn out your churches, your

25:20

bus drivers, all the rest of it. We go out

25:23

and say here's the pay day you would normally get just

25:25

you know, don't turn your vote out. Uh.

25:28

How did you feel about the paying people not

25:30

to vote? I didn't feel I was paying people not to vote.

25:32

I felt I was paying people who always

25:34

get a check on election day, uh,

25:37

not to do their job. If people wanted

25:39

to go vote, they could go vote. I'm always

25:41

for people voting. You know, I've spent my life and I believe

25:43

in democracy and I think, you know, the bottom line

25:45

is just whoever votes votes. But in this particular

25:48

case that there was an opportunity. It was very close

25:50

election. I was doing a press briefing two

25:52

weeks after, nothing to do with the Whitman race.

25:55

A reporter asked me, how did she get the

25:57

vote? And how how do we have to get out the vote? Uh?

26:00

And I explained to it. It became a big story

26:02

because we because it did

26:04

look like you were paying people and we were

26:06

not. But Carvel and Begala, those guys

26:09

in the in the clowns, they pounced on

26:11

it, and they basically hammered me. It's

26:14

a it's a tough game. And at the end of the day,

26:17

you know, my own party hammered me a little bit. I had gone

26:19

off and done paro and so I was sort of the

26:21

trader who came back and uh, and

26:23

I was not close to Bush at the end because

26:25

I had been Jack Kemp's can you know a lot of little stuff

26:28

that came into it. Uh. You know, you got women

26:30

elected. I got women elected. I know the

26:32

game. I know how to make it work. And part of the reason I know

26:34

the game is I was trained as a Democrat.

26:36

I was I started in the coalitional politics

26:39

by Jess underw you know, and and uh and

26:42

Jess under who ran all the campaigns in California,

26:44

and Kennedy. It was Kennedy's guy in California told

26:47

me there were three things that matter, and he said,

26:49

it sounds very simple, but it's not very simple.

26:52

You find your voter, you communicate with your voter,

26:54

you get into the polls. If you're doing anything else

26:56

besides those three things, you're wasting your time. When

26:58

I watch you on TV, and you're I mean, you seem

27:00

like a tough guy, and you seem like a very, very capable

27:03

guy. At the same time, you don't

27:05

seem to me like you're in some line with at

27:08

water and row. I'm not. Why do I

27:10

feel that way about it? I'm not. You know,

27:12

I have a different history. I call

27:15

it the way I see it. My mouth has

27:17

got me in a lot of trouble over the years because I have been

27:19

too honest. And you asked me a question,

27:21

I'm gonna give you the best answer I can. You know, But

27:24

at the end of the day, I'm an American.

27:26

You know, I get up every day. I don't think of myself as

27:28

a Republican. That's not the first thing. I think of myself

27:30

as a father, And then the second thing, I think

27:32

of myself as a husband. And no matter how

27:35

diametrically opposed you and I, maybe

27:37

if we really sat here for hours, we would enjoy

27:39

each other's company, and at the end of the day, we'd

27:41

get up and we'd go try and make America better place.

27:44

That's how I got into politics. Those are the kinds

27:46

of people I was Asham. At the

27:48

end of the day, you know, I was a fighter. I was. I was

27:51

been a fighter all my life. I've never been a hater. I'm

27:53

not a hater. You

27:56

and I will probably both go to the grave

27:58

disagreeing about Ronald Ray, which is okay, but

28:01

I wanted to say thank you so much. I get to

28:03

heaven, he'll be did agree. Oh

28:05

God, I hope I have a private

28:07

cabin. Then this

28:10

is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's

28:13

the thing.