0:07

I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening

0:09

to Here's the thing. This

0:18

music is from the soundtrack of

0:20

The Way, a film starring

0:23

Martin Sheen and my guest

0:25

today, his son, actor, writer

0:27

and director Emilio Esteveez.

0:39

The music plays as father

0:41

and son hike along the famous pilgrimage

0:43

route, the Camino de Santiago

0:46

in northern Spain. Emilio

0:48

himself has come a long way since

0:50

his days as a movie star in such

0:53

films as The Breakfast Club, Repo

0:55

Man, and The Outsiders. He

0:59

took a show our detour away

1:01

from his brat pack career to

1:03

become one of the most admired and

1:06

stubbornly anti commercial independent

1:09

filmmakers in the business today.

1:12

Estevez's latest film is The

1:15

Public. It's a fictional standoff

1:17

between cops and a group of homeless

1:20

people occupying the Cincinnati Public

1:22

Library. We discussed

1:25

the movie at the Bay Street Theater in sag

1:27

Harbor as part of the two

1:29

thousand eighteen Hampton's International

1:31

Film Festivals Conversations with

1:33

series. So many things

1:35

to cover, but one thing that comes to

1:37

my is, uh, your family,

1:40

and you're growing up in a family where your dad,

1:42

of course is this legendary movie

1:45

star, and he worked on Broadway his

1:47

career and later in life. I saw him do the

1:50

Shakespeare with Pacina, with the Republic when they did

1:53

Julius Caesar in the eighties, and

1:55

then the you know, then he has a career in television

1:57

later in his career, which is as as

2:00

big as you can get on a huge hit show. When I was wondering

2:02

growing up in your family, you and your brothers, was

2:04

did that seem an inevitability or you weren't

2:06

sure? You know, so

2:09

much of it was having

2:11

access um to seeing

2:14

how the sausage is made. And

2:17

you know, I grew up I was five six

2:19

years old backstage at the Public

2:21

Theater and watching productions

2:23

of you know, Shakespeare

2:25

in the Park where he was playing Romeo,

2:28

or or the Naked Hamlet, which was Hamlet

2:30

as happening, not really understanding what

2:32

it was that my father did, but

2:35

it seemed fascinating enough to say,

2:38

you know, what, what is I might want to do that

2:40

that's interesting to me. He never pushed

2:43

or no, in fact, they

2:45

they stressed that that I should,

2:48

you know, go on and get a further my education

2:50

and get a degree in something, and

2:52

you know, have a have a solid foundation,

2:55

did you, And I did not. I

2:57

did not. In fact, they still think I'm in medical school.

3:01

What's the first thing you do professionally? Well,

3:04

the first thing I did non professionally

3:06

was when I was about ten years old. My

3:09

folks bought a movie camera,

3:11

like an eight millimeter camera, and

3:13

and that was at a point where you know, they came into cartridges

3:16

and you put the cartridge. It was very easy to load and

3:18

very easy to shoot. And so I started

3:20

making home movies when I was when I was ten

3:22

years old. Um.

3:25

It wasn't until um, I

3:27

was in high school that I got

3:29

involved in the theater department, started

3:32

acting on stage in school,

3:34

wrote my own play, uh, performed

3:36

it, and my father came to see that

3:39

play. It was just a public school, to Sana Monica

3:41

High School, and he after after

3:43

the show, he said, oh my god. He says,

3:45

Uh, you got the bug. You got

3:48

it you and he understood that there

3:50

was something going on inside of me where I

3:52

could not not do it. Your mother was an actress

3:54

as well. No, she was a painter.

3:56

She she got a scholarship to the New School

3:59

as a fine artist, and she um, she

4:01

met my father Uh. In fact,

4:03

he was living on a on a couch at

4:06

a mutual friend of their house and Jim tear

4:08

off and Jim wanted my dad off

4:10

of his couch. So he says, hey, I got a great gal for you

4:13

and uh. So they went out of date. My

4:15

mother hated him. Uh. And yet three

4:17

weeks later they were they were living together

4:20

in New York and um and they've

4:22

been together ever since. It's fifty seven years. Yeah.

4:26

Yeah. So

4:29

the first job for your professional job is at a TV

4:31

show or a film. It's a film called Text,

4:34

so you do text with with Matt. Matt basically

4:38

the audition process. Um,

4:40

you know, I've been Yeah, I would.

4:42

I've been auditioning since I was about sixteen.

4:45

My friends in high school would drive. I didn't have a

4:47

car, so they drive me to h to an audition.

4:50

My first, my first professional audition was

4:52

for Alan Parker, uh where he was

4:54

directing a film called The Fame.

4:57

So I auditioned. I didn't really know what the hell

4:59

I was doing, but I started. I

5:01

didn't get my first job until I was eight

5:03

teams day I graduated high school. It was an

5:06

after school special and U and

5:08

it was you know, you. Back back in the day, you had to have a piece

5:10

of film. It wasn't you know. I had

5:13

a couple of monologues. I had a

5:15

William in Dark at the Top of the Stairs, and I had

5:17

a Shakespearean monologue. And you go in and

5:19

you would audition for for casting

5:21

directors, but they're like, okay, um.

5:24

But it wasn't until you had a piece of film that you could

5:26

show and and and you know,

5:29

use that to hopefully get help you get jobs.

5:31

So once I had that thirty minute after school

5:33

special, it sort of launched me into

5:35

getting better auditions for better

5:37

directors. It really was this suffocating

5:41

catch twenty two, which is you be in a room and

5:43

you'd audition and someone would say, man,

5:45

I think you're fantastic, and the moment

5:47

someone else hires you, you call

5:49

me, uh, you know, bring me

5:51

your film, bring me the clip of you in a movie that

5:53

someone else puts you in. They all needed

5:56

for someone else to valid at you. You know. I auditioned

5:59

initially for Um sixteen Candles,

6:01

which was John hughes first film,

6:03

and so I walked into the audition. It was for

6:05

the role that was eventually played by an actor called Michael

6:07

shuffling, and

6:09

and I prepared for it, and I came in and I killed

6:11

it. I mean I killed the audition. I thought,

6:14

man, I've got this hands down. I walked out of the

6:16

room. I was like, yes, this is mine.

6:18

Michael chants, who if you remember, was a casting

6:20

director. Universal walks

6:23

me out and he says, hey, listen, man, um, you're

6:25

not gonna get this role. So what do you

6:27

mean I I killed? He say no, no no, no, he says, it's

6:29

not gonna happen. But here's what is gonna happen. He

6:31

says, you're gonna get in your car and you drive over to Santa

6:34

Monica Venice area. There's Vicky Thomas

6:36

is casting this film called Repo. Man,

6:39

you're gonna go audition for that, and now you've got a better

6:41

shot at getting that films Like so, I

6:43

was so angry about not getting sixteen

6:45

Candles. I drove over to this audition

6:48

with all of that anger, which I think fueled

6:50

me getting the part. This

6:52

is before Outsiders, just before Outsiders

6:55

before Okay, So yeah, I remember when

6:57

you're in those early days of casting. It is so

7:00

are Like I'll never forget I did a TV show

7:02

for CBS, and the woman who

7:04

was the head of talent or I forget her title

7:07

was Christopher Guest's mother, Jean, who

7:09

was this very elegant, lovely woman who had this

7:11

big office and uh TV City

7:14

in l A. And there was an executive who

7:16

worked with her on never your first starting

7:18

out and you don't know what's what. I mean, I didn't know what's what.

7:20

You come from a family where you probably

7:23

have that that advantage over me. And I go

7:25

there and uh and the pilot we did

7:27

bombed and we're in a room and they don't worry

7:29

about it. We're gonna sign you to a holding deal. We're gonna

7:31

sign you to a network holding deal when we pay

7:33

you money, not a lot of money, just to not

7:35

work for anybody else. And you're gonna work for us. And

7:37

this guy leans in and goes, we think you're great,

7:39

man. We're gonna make you the next Bill Bixby.

7:46

Remember sitting there going, you know, man, I guess

7:48

they think that's a good thing. I should probably I should

7:50

probably think that's true. Well, you know, and and and

7:52

oftentimes as actors, we did criticize why

7:54

did you make that choice? Why did you do it?

7:57

Sometimes it doesn't come down to a choice. Sometimes the movie

7:59

picks you. You know what. I the day

8:01

I auditioned for Breakfast Club, I had audition for a Chips

8:03

episode, I had audition for a Taco Bell

8:05

commercial, and it was just like they just

8:08

happened to say yes, right, And

8:10

and sometimes it is just a matter of that and

8:13

someone you know casting you in their film,

8:15

and it's and it's luck, and it's timing

8:18

and and oftentimes were criticized

8:20

for why did you make that choice? The choice wasn't

8:22

up to us who directed people. Man Alex

8:24

Cox, he went on and he did in a great picture

8:26

after that called Side. Nancy describe

8:30

what the process was like with Coppola. Oh,

8:33

well, you know, Francis um

8:35

likes a very long, protracted

8:38

casting uh sessions, and so

8:41

he and he likes to sort of create a

8:43

gladiator mentality. So he

8:45

had actors from all over town.

8:47

In fact, I think some of these audition tapes have

8:50

made the rounds online.

8:52

But you've got Dennis Quaid and make You Rourke and

8:55

and Tom Cruise and everyone

8:57

in town at the time who could have been right

8:59

for film. We're all in this pit. And

9:02

he and Frances saying, now you're gonna play this part, and you're gonna

9:04

and so you may have just auditioned for

9:06

a specific role and now you're watching Patrick

9:09

Swayze do it, or you're watching Rob

9:11

blow Door Tom Cruise do it, and it's like, oh

9:13

God, he's so much better than me. I'm never gonna get

9:15

this. Uh. And it was and it created

9:17

a real sense of competition and

9:19

and it was exhausting. Uh. And then

9:22

he took I think four or five finalists

9:24

from the from the l A additions. We all flew

9:27

to New York and we did the same process

9:29

at the Brill Building and it

9:31

was it was exhausting. Um.

9:33

But ultimately I think

9:35

that Francis knew who his guys were going

9:37

to be and and

9:39

and those were the ones that did flat in New York

9:41

were the ones that ended up in the Phone. But was

9:43

he experience like shooting the Phone? He

9:47

Um, he was early days,

9:49

he was. He was involved in um chromic

9:51

I think it's called chroma key, where you can

9:54

basically affect the background of a location.

9:56

You'd stand, we'd stand on an empty set and

9:59

we would shoot basically the entire film.

10:01

So it was two weeks for her. So you remember back in

10:03

the day, it wasn't a question of whether

10:06

or not you were going to give two weeks. You gave two

10:08

weeks of rehearsal. It was you showed

10:10

up two weeks early for so that was for

10:12

the two weeks prior to shooting,

10:14

we had completed top to bottom

10:16

shooting the entire film. But now

10:19

you're lucky. If your actors show up

10:21

the day before you start shooting, you

10:23

don't seem like you're all in on the movie

10:25

stardom thing. Well, this,

10:28

this seems like a piece of you that's uncomfortable.

10:31

And is that accurate because it seems like you describe

10:34

that well, you know, it's I never

10:36

got into this business to be famous. I

10:39

got into it to be a working

10:41

actor. Like my father. He he sort

10:43

of set the tone. He in fact, when I when I

10:45

was starting, and says, you know what, no one's gonna remember

10:47

your name, no one's gonna know your name. Just do work,

10:50

do work. And he just kept stressing

10:52

that, and he says, and if you're lucky enough, you'll keep working

10:54

until you're old. Um. But uh,

10:58

and so I've been very lucky, and I've made some

11:00

good choices and I made some bad ones. But but

11:02

um, I've never been comfortable

11:05

with with the autographs and the selfies

11:07

and now, um, but all

11:09

the stuff that comes with it, because

11:11

it felt like it was so far away

11:13

from the reason we became

11:16

actors to begin with, that

11:19

whole thing of like gaming your career. You know. My

11:21

agents said to me, we're going to send a script

11:23

over to you, and it's for a movie that was

11:25

with a big director. It was it's kind of an action

11:27

film, kind of a very you know,

11:30

crazy action drama, and

11:32

it was the most money I would ever be paid in the

11:34

movie. And he sends the script over

11:36

and the messenger comes and I opened the door. When I sit down,

11:38

I just devour it. I just sit right down and meet

11:40

it and I call it my agent and I go, you

11:43

know, got out. I want to love it, man, I want

11:45

to love it. I really wanted.

11:47

I mean I never wanted to love a movie more in

11:49

my life than this movie. I said,

11:52

but I can't do it. I don't get it. I don't get what

11:54

they want. I don't want how I could do that. I mean, maybe

11:56

they need a different kind of guy. And he goes, do

11:58

me a favorite. He says, why don't you come over to

12:00

my office? And he goes, and I want you to read the script again

12:02

in my office because and we have a light.

12:04

We have a special light be have in the office.

12:09

And the light we have projects onto the

12:11

page the amount of money you're going to get to

12:15

be in the movie. Would

12:17

you do that for me? Would you come over to the office and be the

12:19

script again with our special light we have here

12:21

at c A. And I laughed

12:23

at everything, but I mean, you realize that getting

12:26

it right, getting it well, I always I

12:29

kind of gave up. I was like, I don't know what the right answer

12:31

is here? You know. Uh,

12:34

Now, as you're going along and making

12:36

films, you work with Hughes. What

12:39

was he like to work with? He was very childlike left

12:41

him. He was very he was very curious

12:44

about everything. And that's what made him,

12:46

I think, such a terrific filmmaker is

12:48

that he asked questions about

12:50

you all the time, said, how are you feel? What's going

12:52

on? You lever r now? And and and you know,

12:54

look at this old draft of the script and what do you think

12:57

of you know, I cut this out and maybe you

12:59

can figure out how to this work? He

13:01

was very collaborative and and it

13:03

takes a lot of confidence,

13:05

I think, and especially as as I

13:08

think it was his second time that he had directed

13:10

at that point with me, and but to have the confidence

13:13

to trust your actors the way that he did

13:15

during that experience was it was a

13:17

real lesson for me. He's the only person I know who

13:19

rolled the camera and he write notes on

13:21

like a que card with a magic marker

13:24

while we were rolling, right, So you're sitting

13:26

there and and Elizabeth McGovern would

13:28

say, asked me, you know, I was supposed to be the sophisticated,

13:31

rich kid, and I've been all over the world. She's like,

13:33

well, god, you must have been everywhere. You've been so many

13:35

places. Well, you know, tell me about some of

13:37

the placest band And he would write a city

13:39

and then he write like a really crude association.

13:42

He write Berlin lesbians, and he'd hold

13:44

it up and I go, well, you know, Berlin,

13:47

you know, just teaming with lesbians

13:49

and uh, and I'm reading this up

13:51

the card and he's like, you

13:54

know, uh.

13:56

He was crazy. He was really really so much fun music

13:59

too, and he played music can drive the sound people

14:01

nuts. But during during the filming

14:03

of a scene. We just start some music. Cameron

14:06

Cameron Crap has a lot of music. Now, at

14:08

what point that you're doing this because you work

14:10

with some you know, fantastic

14:12

directors, does the directing thing

14:15

begin to dawn on you? Well,

14:18

you know, I had written I did an adaptation

14:21

of an ss hit novel and it was perhaps

14:23

the least successful of the four that were that

14:26

were turned into films.

14:29

It was it was a movie called that was in This

14:31

is Now, and for a lot

14:33

of different reasons, picture just didn't work. And

14:35

so I was very frustrated coming out of that experience.

14:38

And I was twenty three years old, and I said, that's

14:40

not gonna happen. Next time. I'm going to direct. And

14:42

I surrounded myself with with I

14:44

wrote the script that was terrible, and

14:47

and I surrounded myself with an

14:49

amazing group of of technicians.

14:52

Robert Wise was my executive producer and ended

14:54

up being a mentor to me. Michael Cohn, who

14:56

Spielberg's editor, cut it. Dennis Gastner

14:58

was our production designer. Um

15:01

Danny Elfman wrote the score. I mean, I

15:03

was surrounded and supported by this extraordinary

15:06

group of people, and I had

15:08

a terrible script, and I shot it anyway, and

15:10

I was convinced that no one was going to tell me what to

15:12

do, and I should have listened to them. Uh,

15:15

And they should have told me what to do. No,

15:17

no, no, this is another movie for

15:19

her call anyway,

15:22

So you've

15:24

got a couple of verse. So

15:28

anyway, uh And and

15:30

so I came out of that experience bruised and

15:33

broken, and I said, well, I'm gonna do it again. And

15:35

that was another film that I did

15:37

with with Charlie, which was lighter, and it was mean at work

15:39

and it was silly, and and my

15:41

mother pulled me aside, and she's

15:44

she's sort of been. She's the rock of the family

15:46

and she's the most practical one in

15:48

our group. And she just

15:51

said, you know, you're making movies about things you don't know

15:53

anything about. Make

15:55

films about what you know, and what do you know? You

15:57

know about family and about people. And

15:59

so I focus changed. I

16:02

make folk movies. I believe

16:04

I make folk movies. And it started

16:06

with you know, I did this deal with the Devil.

16:09

I agreed to do a third Mighty Ducks

16:11

film, which with

16:14

for Disney in exchange for the

16:16

funding to do a pet project of mine.

16:18

It was a movie called The War at Home where

16:20

I played a directed and played

16:23

a character who was suffering from PTSD Vietnam

16:26

veteran. And so

16:29

I do a Mighty Ducks and I

16:32

go off to Texas and I make War at Home and

16:35

Cathy Bates is in it, and my father plays

16:37

my father, Kimberly Once. It's a forehander, and it's

16:40

based on James Duff's play Home

16:42

Front, which Carol Connor originated

16:44

the role that that my father played. So I thought,

16:46

you know, this is I got this in hand. This is four people

16:49

in a house. Uh, this

16:51

is something I know. It's about a dysfunctional family. I

16:53

know a lot about that, so most

16:57

of us do. So. Um.

16:59

The movie was released on four screens and

17:02

uh, and sort of disappeared and outside

17:04

of the festival circuit, not many people ever heard of it. But

17:07

but that experience sort of informed moving

17:10

where I was going to go, and it

17:12

was to make movies that that mattered. I didn't

17:15

care what the cost was. Uh.

17:17

Emotionally to me, I knew that there was the

17:19

road that I was gonna take was going to be very

17:22

difficult. Um, but I wanted to

17:24

make films. I wanted to change the direction of

17:26

my career. There's a lot on this reel

17:28

that I'm not proud of. I

17:30

mean, it's just some fun yea. Um

17:36

but but but at that point when you say you

17:39

make this decision, is coupled

17:41

with that decision? Uh, side

17:43

by side with it with that decision. Do

17:45

you think and I'm willing to stop not deciding,

17:47

but you're willing to stop starring in films as an

17:50

act of films you don't want to make anymore? Sure?

17:52

Oh yeah no, And you have to say this

17:54

is a sacrifice I'm willing to make. I wanted to.

17:56

I literally want to make a right hand

17:58

turn. And uh and and I

18:00

think, you know much the dismay of agents

18:02

and managers who were making a lot of money off

18:04

of some of the poorer decisions that I was making.

18:07

Um, they were you

18:09

know, uh, they

18:12

were not necessarily as supportive

18:14

as you would have imagined. Right.

18:17

I love when you do a movie and you

18:19

know I would make some decisions like

18:21

I think, yeah, I don't want to take my wife on a vacation

18:24

to Rome. And so they

18:26

this all this is all appended

18:29

to someone saying come to Rome. And make

18:31

this movie. And it was a really bad It was such

18:33

a bad movie, you know, And but of course

18:35

it all sounds better when the person on the otherment in the phone

18:37

is Italian, you know, they're

18:40

they're like, you come and the

18:42

the the movie is a video

18:45

game, but the movie and

18:48

you are the game master. You're

18:50

like a floating ahead in

18:53

the screen, and you were talking

18:55

to all the people trapped in the maze, and

18:58

you say to them, you know, you have certainly

19:00

well proceed to level five,

19:03

you know, and you are the game master.

19:05

And I'm like, I'm like, that doesn't sound

19:07

that bad. I'm taking my

19:09

wife to Rome for two weeks. I'm like, yeah, we'll

19:11

do that. And then afterward you're like, oh god, what have

19:14

I done? And it

19:16

lives forever, especially

19:18

at night when you're girling. A main

19:27

library is now closing. Please

19:29

access the building once again? What's

19:32

going on? Nobody's leaving? Patron just

19:35

digging in action. What are they protesting?

19:37

Frison it death? What's

19:40

it gonna be? Mr Goodson? Either

19:43

one of us are one of them? Right? That's

19:47

a clip from the public Amilio

19:49

esteve As, his latest film starring Taylor

19:51

Shilling. Michael Kay Williams, and Emilio

19:54

himself, among many others.

19:57

When we come back, Amelio Estevez

19:59

talks a it about his dad's arrest

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record, the role of libraries in America,

20:04

and what I was doing in his dreams.

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I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening

20:20

to here's the thing. The activism

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at the core of Ameilio Esteve, as

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his new movie, is rooted in the Sheen

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families long history of political

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engagement. The public is a celebration

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of non violent civil disobedience.

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I grew up in a household where that was celebrated.

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Uh, you know, my father has been arrested sixty

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eight times for all

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all civil disobedience, peaceful

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going against the nuclear proliferation,

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immigration, and and

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homelessness. So thank god we've solved all three of those problems.

20:55

I love that, you know the exact number. I see

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the household, she house,

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and he comes out of jail, and everyone's there with a cake with a

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number on it. Congratulations

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dad, number, We're

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proud of you. Jail on

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the cake, handcuffs. In

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the late eighties and the nineties, he would regularly,

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uh it would end up on the evening news.

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Sometimes the national news, and he would

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be carted off to jail and and cuffs,

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and and he'd be screaming at the top of

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his lungs, either the Lord's Prayer or

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the Tagore poem, Let my country Awake. And

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he looked like a lunatic. And

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and and I would say, and my my mother would

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just be shaking her head and and you

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know, and I didn't really understand. I understood

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it fundamentally. I understood what he was

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doing, but I didn't understand it spiritually.

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I didn't get it. Um,

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But I do now. I understand that we have

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to stand up and we have to

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embrace what Reinhold neighbor called the sublime

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madness, and and that is you

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know you're going to lose, but you but

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you cannot not do it. Um. It's

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uh, it's the it's the Jean Paul Start quote.

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I don't fight fascist because I think

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I will win. I fight fascist because they're fascist,

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but I'm not. You know again that that was

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at the core of who my father is. And

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I think that that is informed to

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circle back around the kinds of films

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that that I'm interested in making. I'm I'm

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I'm interested in in in emotional

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and spiritual transformation. As I

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said, I'm interested in movies about people. I

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don't know how to make a movie. And outer space I've

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never been there, right, and it

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doesn't particularly interest in me. We've got a lot to solve

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on this planet, so let's focus on what It's

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funny when you said that, your mother said, do movies you know,

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and I thought, you know, I thought your response

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would have been something like, you know, well, Kuprick didn't

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go to outer space, model and Copla

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never went to Vietnam. Right, I'm sure you could

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make an argument for all of them. Um, that's

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not your filmmaking. You want to do what you know. Yeah,

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and I also have to work within the parameters

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of the of the budgets something We're going to get to that. But

23:04

YouTube movie like Bobby that looks like it's

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a lot of money, it wasn't familiar. We started

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that original budget, started it around

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five five uh, and it

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had an enormous cast. It's a big again,

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and that was sort of one of the challenges, as

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it was with the public and a less less to a lesser

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degree, but balancing

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everybody's schedules because so on Bobby

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as on this, we've we've you've got Sharon Stone

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for five days, You've got to me more for six They're

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supposed to be in the same couple of the same scenes,

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but they're scheduled on different during

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different weeks. How do we figure this out? You've got Bill

23:35

Macey, You've got Tony Hopkins, you've got Elijah Would, You've

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got Lindsay Low and you won't come out of a trailer. You've

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got so you're you're doing this whole, this

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juggling thing, and you're on a very

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tight budget. So it's like you're watching the sun go

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down, the hours take away, and it's like, how

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are we going to make this impossible

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schedule? And and so that is

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the challenge when you don't have a lot of money and you don't

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have a lot of time to make it look flawless,

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to make it look like and

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make it look like a movie, and make it look like everybody was there

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at the same time, which I think we accomplished,

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and we did it again here on the public. But I

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just I watched myself sort of age right

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and and not slowly. I just watched myself

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get more and more tired. And

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if you're shooting out of sequence, of course, and you need to be tired

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at the end of the movie, like we are, like I

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am in the Public. It's it creates a bit

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of a problem with each movie you make. Do you do

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you come out of the movie? I mean I

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like movies because when you come out of the movie, you've

24:29

learned so much. Is that the same way

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it's for you directing? It is? And I think

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as a director, and if your volts are written the screenplay,

24:36

you have to be accountable

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to every character. And so when an

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actor comes the night before shooting, it's like, who is

24:43

this guy and what's he doing? And you know how

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how did he get here? And what's his relationship to zones?

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You've got to write backgrounds for a lot of

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these characters and so um,

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that's just a whole another layer of work. Uh.

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And again I've had a lot of years too, in

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particularly on the Public. I've been working on

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the from for almost twelve years. It's

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a fifth of my life I've devoted

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to this. So I had a lot of time to think about it. And

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you know, the the are there films you

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right or or you develop

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with other writers their films that you have like pots

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on the stove that you that you find that you

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chucked them and you just say, I'm not going to make that. You

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don't know you never had that experience painful.

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I did write a sequel to The Way Uh

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that I tried to convince my father to

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do, but you couldn't afford him. I couldn't afford him. And

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he says, I'm not going there and I'm not doing

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I'm not I'm too old to walk again. And I

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said, well, you go be on trains and now. So,

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yeah, that was that's probably

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the only one so far that had to get

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right. Yeah, the public. Nearly

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everything that's plaguing in this country right now is touched

25:47

upon in this film, in terms of

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community, in terms of education, in terms

25:52

of poverty and homelessness, in terms of identity,

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spirituality, what have you. This so much that I

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think was really really wrong with

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our country today, beyond

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what you see on the surface and what's covered by the news,

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that's that's touched upon in this film. And

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I was I was wondering, when you write a

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screenplay like this, do you write

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a hundred screen and then

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well, I wrote this coming off of Bobby. I

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was feeling, and again the movie is what

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it is. And but there was a lot of attention

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around around the film,

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and we were nominated for a Goal of Globe for Best Picture,

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we got the SAG nomination, and so there was

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a lot of energy about what I would

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be doing next. So the first

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draft of the Public was a hundred and fifty five pages,

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and I said, I'm not changing a word, and

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of course, you know, we ended up with a hundred eight

26:42

hundred nine page a final draft. But

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it was as inflated as as

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as I could possibly get it, because

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I thought, there's so many other stories I want to tell, There's

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so many other characters I want to I want to explore,

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and so I just kind of had this enormous canvas.

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The story was initially formed by a by

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a piece in the Early Times written by a former librarianship

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Ward who was retiring, and

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the thesis of the essay

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was that libraries have become the facto homeless

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shelters, librarians have become the facto

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social workers, and I

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can't sustain this any longer, and this

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is an epidemic. And so I was so moved

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by the piece that I began to do the research and

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began to write, began to write the script.

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Is there ever a thought for you that

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you're not going to play these roles in the films and you're gonna

27:30

cast somebody. Did you always say to yourself, I got

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this, You're going to play that part. I'm looking for the

27:35

job. Yeah no, no, no, no, I'm just saying

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because you know, you know, I want you know, I want to work

27:40

with you again. Yeah you don't you

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all you all heard it now as

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good as ink on a page. Now, buddy, I'm

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looking I'm looking at you. Know what I mean? Is I

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directed one movie. It was I hated every minute

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of it. I did. It was not my thing. I

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didn't have the pages for it. I

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just didn't say. You forgot to cover yourself. You know you've

28:00

covered everybody else. We go into the editing room

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and I turned to my assistant director, the director

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assistant, and I go, we have a super tight

28:06

closive in that shot that who. She looked at the page to go,

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no, we don't. And I was like, I

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with the person who The person whose performance

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was the most neglective was my own. And I played the lead

28:16

in the movie. But but, but What was

28:18

interesting was is that I realized

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that it is tough. I mean, what a muscle you

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have to have to star in and to

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direct a film. You really really have to have a special

28:27

gift. And I'm wondering, has it ever been

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problematic for you? Do you ever think to yourself that you, you

28:32

know, there's a lot of great You know, Ronnie Howard

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is a great director, had a huge career as a TV star,

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and you never see him in his movies. You ever want to go back to

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directing? Only? Sure? I mean, I think it would depend

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on the story. And I think if if it just didn't

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make sense for me to be absolutely I would step

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back. And you know, in the way I had a very small role

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and Bobby had a very limited role. Um,

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so it was I

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think, sure, I'm open to that. So

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the last question I'll ask before we go out into the house

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here is that you make uh,

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studio films and big films in your lifetime.

29:04

You go in and your shoot, and you're an actor, and you you

29:06

can want it. At the time that they're finishing that movie,

29:08

you've shot two or three more movies in that time, you know,

29:11

and now you are uh, you

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are prepping the movie, and you are

29:16

shooting the movie, and you're posting the movie, and

29:18

you have to raise money for the movie is gonna and

29:20

then you're gonna sell the movie and market the movie.

29:22

Take us through that process, just give us a little bit

29:24

of Well I left this film. I left Los

29:27

Angeles for Cincinnati, where we shot the film right

29:30

after the election. Uh it was

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I drove out from from Los Angeles,

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I started the prep and that was November

29:38

of two thousand sixteen. Uh So,

29:40

when you commit to making a

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film, especially independent film, you

29:45

know you're in it a minimum of

29:47

two years. The editing

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process can be again a very long

29:52

period. I'm a big fan of

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of test screenings, which

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you know, of course every studio wants to do, and

29:58

I'm all for it. I think that the only way well, I

30:01

think that the only way to know how your film is playing is to

30:03

is to take it for a test drive. See how it's it's

30:06

It's about ten grand to to

30:09

to run these what we are called n RG National

30:11

Research Group test screenings, and you have to

30:13

fill an auditorium three four h people

30:15

and and the price goes up depending of how

30:17

big that auditorium iss The theater is so

30:20

so these these items just start racking

30:23

up. And uh. You know, we

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were fortunate enough to have an Ohio tax

30:27

credit which came at at a

30:29

terrific time in the process, so

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it gave us an influx of cash. Uh,

30:34

and we were able to get to to continue

30:36

working on the film. But again, because

30:38

as you mentioned, this movie deals with so much,

30:41

it is a it is a big giant adult

30:44

portion. I

30:46

wanted to make sure that we got it right. Um.

30:50

I took the film down to the a l A conference down in

30:52

in New Orleans, uh and screened

30:54

for thousands of of of crazy

30:57

librarians and uh and

30:59

and they and they went wild

31:01

for the film. But again that's

31:04

a that's a process getting it their three

31:06

screenings in the middle of a big conference. You commit

31:08

to doing all of that, You commit to uh

31:11

an extended period of time where you're gonna think

31:13

about nothing other than this film. So

31:16

you know, next month it will be two years where

31:18

I have been living, breathing, and and and

31:21

dreaming about this movie. In fact, you popped

31:23

up in my dream recently, um, and

31:26

and it was it was odding an oscar

31:28

in your dream. You might have been yeah, yeah,

31:30

yeah, you might don't know.

31:33

It was a lot darker. You had framed me for some

31:35

crime. You framed me for some and

31:38

and it was so obvious that I hadn't donne the crime

31:40

and admitted this murder. But and it was you. You

31:42

were the villain. Yeah,

31:44

it was odd and and and yes, and yet

31:47

and yet you were standing there and survived.

31:50

And I was trying to convince him. I said, please, Alec

31:52

Baldwin killed him, not me. And and I

31:55

killed somebody. Yeah, oh no, you killed something and I

31:57

was but I was the one covered in blood. And

31:59

h was a very bizarre dream I meant to tell you about. This was

32:02

the person. I'm not sure, but you framed

32:04

it on me anywhere near the Supreme Court. No,

32:08

I mean, I'm

32:14

just saying that, you know, okay,

32:21

I can't see back there. He's got their hand. I'm

32:23

right on the as right there. I

32:25

was just wondering if you thought there would

32:28

ever be a world without libraries,

32:30

would they ever become absolute? Could you ever

32:32

imagine that? Do you think they still will continue

32:35

to be relevant in the future? Well,

32:38

are you aware of this piece that Forbes

32:40

posted online about I don't

32:42

know about six weeks ago talking about

32:45

now that now that we have Google and

32:47

Amazon, the libraries are obsolete. Librarians

32:51

around the world shouted

32:53

this piece right off line.

32:56

Forbes was forced to take it down. So

32:58

I don't envision a world where,

33:01

uh, where we don't have libraries.

33:03

I think that Tony Marks, who's

33:05

the president of the New York Public Library System,

33:08

he was quoted just yesterday in an article

33:10

where he said libraries are quietly

33:13

the place where democracy can be saved. And

33:16

I also just wanted to mention that it's

33:18

Halloween, and every Halloween I like to break

33:20

out nightmares. And I watched that piece

33:22

that you do when you get sucked into the video missions.

33:25

Yeah, that was one of those ones on the resume

33:27

that we talked about earlier. Excuse

33:33

me, is there a movie that you haven't done yet that

33:35

you're looking forward to doing that you could share it with this

33:38

small group small minux

33:40

film with Alec. There's

33:45

a there's a script that I've been working on for a while about

33:47

immigration, and unfortunately it's not a timely

33:50

issue, so I've had to put that on the back

33:52

burner. So no I wrote a comedy about

33:54

immigration, about rediscovering America through the

33:56

eyes of an immigrant and so that's, um, that's

34:00

slowly coming into the front burner. Now

34:02

are you going to play the lead in that movie too? Are you going

34:04

to get out of the way people?

34:08

Is a is a Latina? So I'm

34:11

probably outside the top of my right Okay

34:14

over here, Uh, just going back

34:16

aways. What was it like on the set of The Breakfast

34:19

Club? And how did the cast get along on

34:22

the Breakfast Club? We everybody got along

34:25

really well. Um. You

34:28

know, I was I was twenty one at the time. I was, you

34:30

know, a few years out of high school. Uh.

34:32

They they put Judd and and

34:35

Ali and I back into

34:38

high school. We we started attending classes

34:41

just to sort of get that high school vibe. And again

34:43

we could we could be in a school and be anonymous.

34:46

Um, Anthony, Michael Hall

34:48

and and Molly. We're still teenagers and still

34:51

uh you know, still had uh

34:53

still I think we're still going to school at the time. So

34:56

uh, but yeah, we got along. We got

34:58

along very well. Um. I

35:01

don't really attend any of the Breakfast

35:03

Club reunions, and I've been criticized for that. Um

35:06

and and but in my my

35:09

castmates are you know, they're they're They've

35:11

been very vocal and sort

35:13

of wondering why I never show up, but

35:16

I don't. How do you feel about doing retrospectives

35:18

and doing the doing the I

35:20

think don't do. To be honest with you, I think that it

35:22

depends on the nature of the

35:24

film, you know, Like these people talk about how much the

35:26

movie means to them at that point in their life.

35:29

And I hear people all the time talk about Breakfast Club

35:31

helped me get through high school, you

35:33

know. So with that in mind, I think, what could possibly

35:35

be wrong about going to the retrospective, you know, I

35:37

mean, really it has great meaning to them, and even

35:39

though you don't share that, it's a job you did

35:42

and you play a character. I'll let people come up to me

35:44

and say, oh I love this or I love that, and

35:46

I said, they're go, oh, well, thank you and uh,

35:49

you know, best of luck to you or whatever. But

35:51

for you, if they have these retrospects and like,

35:54

oh my god, let's go, I'll go with you. Let's goast

35:58

reunion. That's how like a blast? Thank

36:01

you for being Thank you so much. That

36:07

was Amelio Estevez. The

36:09

Public is his latest movie and

36:12

it's currently on the Festival circuit.

36:14

I'll let you know when it's out in wide release.

36:18

I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening

36:21

to Here's the Thing